03/08/00

LC000308

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> IT'S AN ISSUE CHAMPIONED BY THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT, SO WHY DID IT WIN THE VOTES OF SO MANY LIBERALS?

PHILIP BRUCE>> THIS IS WHAT PROP 22 WAS ALL ABOUT. FOURTEEN LITTLE WORDS THAT EFFECTIVELY SAID MARRIAGE IN CALIFORNIA IS FOR MEN AND WOMEN ONLY, NOT FOR GAY COUPLES.

STACY GLOVER>> THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT IT IS THAT PROBABLY THERE WERE MANY, MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO VOTED FOR THIS AND THEY'VE BEEN MARRIED THREE OR FOUR TIMES, AND THEY LOOK AT IT LIKE MARRIAGE IS AN INSTITUTION. IT'S NOT IF THEY'VE BEEN MARRIED SEVERAL TIMES. SO EVERYONE WHO VOTED THAT WAY AND HAVE BEEN MARRIED? THEY'RE HYPOCRITES.

VAL>> IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, ARE WE READY FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE? WE'LL ASK THE MAN WHO IS AMERICA'S LIVING SYMBOL OF INDEPENDENT POLITICS, JOHN ANDERSON.

WARREN>> AND WE'LL TALK TO TWO PEOPLE WITH THEIR FINGERS ON THE PULSE OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA POLITICS. THEY'RE HERE TO GIVE THE REGION A POST-ELECTION CHECKUP.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR WEDNESDAY, MARCH 8, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

GTE
A COMPANY COMMITTED TO TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXCELLENCE AND AN OPEN DIALOGUE AMONG ALL PEOPLE.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, THE OVERWHELMING PASSAGE OF PROPOSITION 22. THE INITIATIVE ON YESTERDAY'S BALLOT WAS KNOWN AS THE LIMIT ON MARRIAGE, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE CALLED IT THE GAY MARRIAGE BAN.

VAL>> CALIFORNIA VOTERS PASSED PROP 22 BY ONE OF THE WIDEST MARGINS OF THE NIGHT. THE QUESTION GAY AND LESBIAN ACTIVISTS ARE NOW ASKING IS, WHY? PHILIP BRUCE HAS THIS REPORT.

PHILIP>> IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FUN NIGHT. MARDI GRAS IN WEST HOLLYWOOD WHERE PEOPLE GOT ALL DRESSED UP AND HAD PLENTY OF PLACES TO GO. BUT DOWN AT THE NO ON 22 HEADQUARTERS, IT WAS ANYTHING BUT FESTIVE. THE EARLIEST ELECTION RETURNS SHOWED THE MEASURE BANNING SAME SEX MARRIAGE WAS HEADED TOWARD A HUGE LANDSLIDE VICTORY. WHILE SOME GAY PEOPLE TRIED TO ACT LIKE THAT DIDN'T HURT, IT WAS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT IT DID.

GWENN BALDWIN>> YOU KNOW, WE ALL KNOW THE YES CAMPAIGN HAD A LARGER AGENDA. WE KNOW, HOWEVER, THAT CALIFORNIANS FUNDAMENTALLY BELIEVED THEY WERE VOTING SPECIFICALLY ON THE DEFINITION OF CIVIL MARRIAGE AND NOT WHETHER GAYS AND LESBIANS SHOULD BE AFFORDED BASIC RIGHTS.

PHILIP>> THIS IS WHAT PROP 22 WAS ALL ABOUT. FOURTEEN LITTLE WORDS THAT EFFECTIVELY SAID MARRIAGE IN CALIFORNIA IS FOR MEN AND WOMEN ONLY, NOT FOR GAY COUPLES. MOST GAY PEOPLE EXPECTED THE MEASURE WOULD PASS, BUT MANY WERE STUNNED BY HOW MUCH.

STACY GLOVER>> THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT IT IS THAT PROBABLY THERE WERE MANY, MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO VOTED FOR THIS AND THEY'VE BEEN MARRIED THREE OR FOUR TIMES AND THEY LOOK AT IT LIKE MARRIAGE IS AN INSTITUTION. IT'S NOT IF THEY'VE BEEN MARRIED SEVERAL TIMES. SO EVERYONE WHO VOTED THAT WAY AND HAVE BEEN MARRIED? THEY'RE HYPOCRITES.

PHILIP>> BUT IT'S HARD FOR THE GAY COMMUNITY TO POINT AN ANGRY FINGER AT JUST ONE GROUP. THE FIRST ANALYSIS OF YESTERDAY'S VOTE SHOWS SUPPORT FOR 22 TRANSCENDED THE NORMAL DEFINITION OF LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE. BOTH GROUPS VOTED FOR IT. LATINOS, FOR EXAMPLE, VOTED FOR THE GAY MARRIAGE BAN BY A MARGIN OF 60 PERCENT OR MORE. SO DID AFRICAN-AMERICANS. BOTH GROUPS OFTEN VOTE FOR LIBERAL CAUSES, BUT NOT THIS TIME.

MICHAEL ALVAREZ>> YEAH, IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY COMPLICATED VOTE BECAUSE IT REALLY CUTS ACROSS BOTH PARTISAN AND IDEOLOGICAL LINES.

PHILIP>> MICHAEL ALVAREZ, A POLITICAL SCIENTIST AT CAL TECH UNIVERSITY IN PASADENA, SAYS RELIGION AND CULTURE, AND NOT POLITICS, WERE THE DRIVING FORCES THAT PROMPTED MANY TO VOTE FOR PROP 22. IT WAS, HE SAYS, MORE A VOTE FOR MARRIAGE THAN AGAINST GAYS, BUT ALVAREZ SAYS THERE'S STILL AN UNCOMFORTABLE MESSAGE FOR GAY CALIFORNIANS.

MICHAEL ALVAREZ>> I THINK IT'S NOT A GOOD MESSAGE. I THINK THAT, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO INTERPRET THIS PASSAGE OF THIS INITIATIVE IN TERMS OF EXPLICIT ANTI-GAY SENTIMENTS, BUT I DO THINK IT SENDS THEM A MESSAGE THAT THEY MAY NOT BE AS WELCOME IN CALIFORNIA AS THEY PROBABLY THOUGHT. AND I THINK IT SENDS A STRONG MESSAGE ABOUT HOW PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT THE STATE FEEL ABOUT THE ROLE OF GAYS AND LESBIANS IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

JAMIE CONNOLLY>> I JUST THINK THAT IT SAID THAT NOT ENOUGH GAY MEN IN WEST HOLLYWOOD CAME OUT TO VOTE. WITH THE VICTORY TURNOUT UP IN SAN FRANCISCO AND THE BAY AREA, THAT WAS A TURNOUT. I DON'T HAVE A LOT TO SAY OTHER THAN THAT, BASICALLY.

PHILIP>> PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, PROP 22 WILL HAVE NO REAL IMPACT ON GAY PEOPLE. SAME SEX MARRIAGE WAS ALREADY ILLEGAL IN CALIFORNIA. NOW THE BAN IS PART OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION. AND MANY GAY PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THE LAST THING THEY NEED IS A STRAIGHT WORLD GIVING THEM A BLESSING TO GET MARRIED, IN EFFECT VALIDATING THE LEGITIMACY OF A GAY RELATIONSHIP.

MIKE WISSER>> WE HAVE OUR OWN WAYS OF DOING THAT AND WE'VE DONE THAT FOR 30, 40 YEARS NOW. TO ASK FOR SOCIETY'S ACCEPTANCE IN THIS WAY IS, I THINK, A LITTLE WEAK.

PHILIP>> BUT THE TROUBLE COMES WHEN A GAY COUPLE TRIES TO ORGANIZE ITS HOUSEHOLD AFFAIRS, SPELLING OUT BASIC THINGS LIKE PROPERTY RIGHTS AND INSURANCE BENEFITS. FOR A GAY COUPLE, IT CAN OFTEN MEAN A TANGLED SERIES OF DOCUMENTS TO ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING STRAIGHT COUPLES GET WITH A SIMPLE MARRIAGE LICENSE. PROP 22 MEANS THERE'S NO END IN SIGHT TO THAT.

GWENN BALDWIN>> OF COURSE, EMOTIONALLY IT'S BEEN VERY HURTFUL. I MEAN, I WOKE UP THIS MORNING AND YOU THINK, OKAY, PERCENTAGE-WISE, MY NEIGHBORS, HOW MANY OF THEM THAT WE WORK WITH EVERYDAY AND TALK ABOUT OUR YARDS AND OUR PRUNING AND OUR LAWNS. HOW MANY OF THEM WERE INVALIDATING MY RELATIONSHIP OR ME AS A PERSON?

PHILIP>> THE MAN WHO DRAFTED PROP 22, STATE LAWMAKER PETE KNIGHT OF PALMDALE, HAS A GAY SON. OPPONENTS SAY KNIGHT'S BACKING OF THE MEASURE IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN ANGRY FATHER'S REVENGE, A CHARGE HE DENIED WHILE CLAIMING VICTORY.

PETE KNIGHT>> I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. MY SOLE OBJECTIVE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAINTAINED THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE. SINCE WE COULDN'T DO IT IN THE LEGISLATURE, I FELT THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THAT CHANGE IN PUBLIC POLICY, THEN THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA SHOULD BE INVOLVED AND THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA SHOULD SAY WHETHER THEY WANT TO MAKE THAT CHANGE OR NOT. SO THAT'S WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT. IT IS NOT DIVISIVE. IT WAS NOT MEAN-SPIRITED. IT WAS NOT BIGOTED. IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE OTHER THAN WE WANTED TO MAINTAIN THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE AND THAT IS WHERE WE ARE.

WARREN>> I SPOKE TODAY TO SHEILA KUEHL, ONE OF THE VERY ACTIVE LEADERS OF THE GAY AND LESBIAN COMMUNITY ELECTED TODAY TO THE STATE SENATE OVER A VERY LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC OPPONENT, WALLY KNOX. SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THIS WAS NOT OUR ISSUE. WE DIDN'T PUT IT ON THE BALLOT. SOMEBODY ELSE DID. SHE INSISTS THAT THERE WON'T BE AN ASSAULT ON THE OTHER KINDS OF LEGAL PROTECTIONS FOR GAY AND LESBIAN PEOPLE.

PHILIP>> THAT'S DEFINITELY THE WAY THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT TODAY. THE GAY COMMUNITIES SAY WE DIDN'T LOSE ANYTHING. WE DIDN'T LOSE ANY CIVIL RIGHTS. THIS WASN'T SOMETHING THEY SOUGHT. THIS WASN'T SOMETHING THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO PUT ON THE BALLOT. IT WAS THRUST UPON THEM. PETE KNIGHT'S EXPLANATION NOTWITHSTANDING, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WILL TELL YOU THAT THIS WAS DIVISIVE. IT DID REKINDLE A LOT OF UGLY THINGS THAT THEY GAY COMMUNITY WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE COME UP.

VAL>> BUT WITH 59 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE VOTING FOR PROP 22, IT DOESN'T EXACTLY LINE UP WITH CALIFORNIA'S LIBERAL REPUTATION.

PHILIP>> WELL, WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT, ON CERTAIN ISSUES, LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE DON'T MEAN ANYTHING. THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE WITH MOST PEOPLE AS MUCH AS IT IS A RELIGIOUS AND SOCIAL ISSUE, A CULTURAL ISSUE, --

VAL>> VALUES AND SO FORTH.

PHILIP>> -- AND IT REALLY CAME DOWN TO THAT. WHEN YOU HAVE AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY LIKE YOU HAD IN THIS, IT SAYS THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT RESONATES WITH ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS. YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE BEEN CASTING AN ANTI-GAY VOTE. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE, I'M SURE, WHO WERE VOTING FOR THE SANCTITY OF CONVENTIONAL MARRIAGE AND THAT WAS WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT. BUT REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR MOTIVATION WAS, THE IMPACT ON THE GAY COMMUNITY IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. THEY FEEL LIKE THIS IS PRETTY MUCH A SLAP IN THE FACE, ALTHOUGH THEY HAVEN'T LOST ANYTHING IN THIS.

VAL>> RIGHT. NOTHING LEGALLY.

WARREN>> PHIL, THANKS VERY MUCH.

VAL>> THANKS.

WARREN>> IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE RESULTS, YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE. GO TO KCET.ORG, CLICK ON DECISION 2000, THEN CLICK AGAIN ON EITHER THE ENGLISH OR SPANISH LANGUAGE VERSION. THERE YOU WILL FIND LINKS TO THE OFFICIAL RETURNS FOR VARIOUS COUNTIES, AS WELL AS FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE.

VAL>> TIME NOW FOR TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

MANY OF YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THE NAME, JOHN ANDERSON, AS A FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. HE RAN AS AN INDEPENDENT IN 1980 AGAINST JIMMY CARTER AND RONALD REAGAN. HE BECAME A RELUCTANT CANDIDATE AGAIN THIS YEAR, APPEARING ON THE CALIFORNIA PRIMARY BALLOT AS A CANDIDATE FOR THE REFORM PARTY.

WARREN>> SO 20 YEARS AFTER HIS FIRST PRESIDENTIAL RUN, WHAT DOES JOHN ANDERSON THINK ABOUT THIRD PARTY CANDIDACIES? WE'LL ASK HIM. GOOD TO SEE YOU, GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

JOHN ANDERSON>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

WARREN>> YOU WERE NOT REALLY A VOLUNTARY CANDIDATE --

JOHN ANDERSON>> NO, NO.

WARREN>> -- ON YESTERDAY'S BALLOT. YOU WERE CALLED AND ASKED TO DO IT BECAUSE THE REFORM PARTY PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA WANTED TO SEE YOUR NAME THERE?

JOHN ANDERSON>> ACTUALLY, IT WAS A DECISION ON THE PART OF THE PARTY CHAIR AND THE PARTY COORDINATOR, MR. PORTER AND MR. HALE.

WARREN>> OKAY. THE QUESTION NOW IS THIS: YOU YOURSELF WERE A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN BEFORE YOU RAN AS A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE.

JOHN ANDERSON>> YES.

WARREN>> NOW WE HAVE JOHN MCCAIN. HE GOT SOMETHING LIKE 24 PERCENT OF THE VOTE ALTOGETHER ACROSS THE COUNTRY. DO YOU THINK HE COULD PUT ON A CREDIBLE THIRD PARTY CANDIDACY? SHOULD HE DO IT?

JOHN ANDERSON>> WELL, HE HAS ONE FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE, I THINK, WITH HIS OPPONENT GEORGE BUSH. THAT'S ON THE SUBJECT OF SOFT MONEY IN POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS. BUT WHEN I DECIDED TO BECOME AN INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE, I HAD FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ON CIVIL RIGHTS, ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS, ON THE WHOLE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS POSSIBLE TO DO WHAT GOVERNOR REAGAN, WHO WAS RUNNING, SAID WAS POSSIBLE, TO BALANCE THE BUDGET WHILE YOU WERE RAISING DEFENSE EXPENDITURES ENORMOUSLY AND CUTTING TAXES. I SAID THAT WAS BLUE SMOKE AND MIRRORS. SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S THAT MUCH OF A GAP BETWEEN JOHN MCCAIN AND HIS OPPONENT GEORGE BUSH ON THOSE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES.

VAL>> AND YET VOTERS DON'T SEEM TO BE RESPONDING INTENSELY TO ISSUES. THEY SEEM TO REALLY BE RESPONDING TO HIM AS A PERSON, AS A HUMAN BEING. THE BIOGRAPHY, AS THEY SAY. COULD HE NOT RUN STRONGLY ON THAT BASIS?

JOHN ANDERSON>> OH, I THINK HE HAS A WONDERFUL WAR RECORD AND, OF COURSE, A BIOGRAPHY THAT IS A REAL SPELL-BINDER. IT COULD MAKE A MOVIE AND IT PROBABLY WILL. IF HE WANTED TO PERSONALIZE THAT, HE COULD VERY WELL DECIDE TO RUN AS AN INDEPENDENT. BUT IT SEEMS TO ME, AS I LOOK AT THE ELECTORATE TODAY, THAT EVEN AS MUCH AS THEY ARE TAKEN WITH HIS CHARACTER AND WITH HIS RECORD AS I'VE DESCRIBED IT, I THINK THERE ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES TO BE DEBATED AND DISCUSSED. THAT OUGHT TO BE THE BASIS ON WHICH A DECISION IS MADE TO RUN AS AN INDEPENDENT.

WARREN>> YOU YOURSELF ARE VERY INTERESTED, I KNOW, IN FOREIGN POLICY AND WORLD AFFAIRS, WHICH HAVE NOT PLAYED MUCH OF A ROLE AT ALL IN THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

JOHN ANDERSON>> INDEED, THEY HAVE NOT.

WARREN>> DO YOU DESPAIR OF THAT? WILL WE BE HEARING ABOUT FOREIGN AFFAIRS DURING THIS CAMPAIGN OR NOT?

JOHN ANDERSON>> WE HAVE NOT HEARD A SINGLE WORD FROM THE MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES ON SUCH IMPORTANT ISSUES AS SIGNING THE TREATY THAT WOULD ESTABLISH A PERMANENT INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT. WE'VE HAD SOME MENTION, PERHAPS, BY THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE THAT WE OUGHT TO PAY OUR DUES TO THE UNITED NATIONS, BUT NO REAL DISCUSSION OF WHAT WE AS WORLD FEDERALISTS BELIEVE OUGHT TO BE THE FUNDAMENTAL ROLE THAT THE U.N. COULD AND SHOULD PLAY IN THE WORLD. WE OUGHT TO HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL PEACE-KEEPING FORCE AT THE COMMAND OF THE UNITED NATIONS. NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE BEING DISCUSSED OR TALKED ABOUT BY EITHER MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATE.

WARREN>> MIGHT THEY BE THE BASIS OF A THIRD PARTY CANDIDACY? DO YOU SEE ONE FORMING UP?

JOHN ANDERSON>> WELL, CERTAINLY THE FOLKS IN DALLAS WHO ARE STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT NAFTA AND WHO ARE TAKING AN ANTI-FREE TRADE POSITION. THEY AREN'T A VERY HOPEFUL GROUP, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, TO FURNISH THAT KIND OF OPPOSITION.

WARREN>> AS THE ROSS PEROT VERSION OF THE REFORM PARTY.

JOHN ANDERSON>> YEAH, AND THE LEADING CONTENDER FOR THE REFORM PARTY NOMINATION, MR. BUCHANAN, HAS TO DATE SOUNDED VERY MUCH LIKE A NATIVIST, LIKE A NEO-ISOLATIONIST, LIKE A NATIONALIST. I DON'T SEE MUCH HOPE IN THE NAMES THAT ARE BEING PUT FORWARD BY THE SO-CALLED REFORM PARTY.

VAL>> ONE OTHER THING THAT'S POINTED OUT TO SHOW THE GROWTH AND THE STRENGTH AND THE MOMENTUM OF THIRD PARTIES IN GENERAL IS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MORE CANDIDATES ON THE BALLOTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON ALL SORTS OF LEVELS FOR THIRD PARTIES. DO YOU THINK THIS WILL REALLY TRANSLATE, SAY 10, 20 YEARS FROM NOW, INTO MORE THIRD PARTY CANDIDATES? IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ABLE TO GET FROM THE BALLOT INTO THE OFFICE.

JOHN ANDERSON>> WELL, I THINK WE'VE GOT TO CHANGE OUR ELECTORAL PROCESS. THE FIRST PAST THE POST PLURALITY SYSTEM OF ELECTING PRESIDENTS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THIRD PARTY CANDIDATES TO WIN. I'M TALKING NOW ABOUT A PRESIDENTIAL RACE. IF WE HAD CHOICE VOTING, IF VOTERS COULD MARK A BALLOT AND SAY ONE, TWO, THREE, --

VAL>> YOU MEAN PRIORITIZE?

JOHN ANDERSON>> YES, YES, THAT'S THE WAY THE PRESIDENT OF IRELAND WAS ELECTED. MARY ROBINSON, NOW THE U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS. IF VOTERS COULD DO THAT, THEN I BELIEVE THEY WOULD VOTE FOR THIRD PARTY CANDIDATES BECAUSE IF THAT CANDIDATE DID NOT GET A MAJORITY ON THE FIRST COUNT, THEN THAT SECOND CHOICE COULD BE ADVANCED AND COUNTED AND A PRESIDENT COULD BE ELECTED ON A MAJORITY BASIS. SO UNTIL WE CHANGE THE WAY THAT WE CONDUCT OUR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, WE OUGHT TO HAVE SAME-DAY REGISTRATION. THAT'S THE WAY VENTURA WAS ELECTED GOVERNOR IN MINNESOTA. IF VOTERS COULD REGISTER AND VOTE ON THE SAME DAY, I THINK THIRD PARTIES WOULD DO VERY WELL.

WARREN>> WE ARE VIRTUALLY OUT OF TIME AND WE HAVEN'T ASKED YOU, HOW DID YOU DO YESTERDAY IN THE CALIFORNIA BALLOTING? HOW MANY VOTES DID YOU GET?

JOHN ANDERSON>> THE HONEST FACT OF THE MATTER IS, I DON'T KNOW. I WAS NOT CONCERNED WITH MY OWN FATE ON THE BALLOT YESTERDAY.

WARREN>> WE NEED MORE CANDIDATES LIKE YOU WHO DON'T EVEN READ THE RESULTS.

VAL>> YOU CAN GO TO OUR WEBSITE AND CHECK ON YOUR RESULTS.

WARREN>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JOHN ANDERSON, FOR COMING IN AND BEING WITH US TODAY.

JOHN ANDERSON>> THANK YOU. ENJOYED BEING WITH YOU.

WARREN>> WE'RE NOW GOING TO CONTINUE OUR POST-ELECTION COVERAGE. CALIFORNIA'S FIRST SUPER TUESDAY PRIMARY WAS A DECISIVE DAY, AS WE ALL KNOW. SOME CANDIDATES NOW ADVANCE, OF COURSE, TO THE NEXT ROUND. OTHERS REALIZE THAT THE END IS VERY MUCH IN SIGHT. AND THERE ARE SOME LOCAL RACES THAT ARE HEADED FOR HEATED RUN-OFFS THIS COMING NOVEMBER.

VAL>> GARCETTI AND COOLEY, GET READY. WELL, WE HAVE INVITED TWO VETERAN POLITICAL OBSERVERS TO READ THE TEA LEAVES FROM YESTERDAY'S ELECTION DAY TEA PARTY IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

WARREN>> JOINING US NOW TO EXPLAIN THE OTHERWISE INEXPLICABLE IS THE WRY AND WITTY EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF THE LA WEEKLY, HAROLD MEYERSON, AND POLITICAL CONSULTANT, MIKE MADRID, WHO HAS MORE THAN TEN YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WORKING FOR VARIOUS CAMPAIGNS, LATINO POLITICAL GROUPS, REPUBLICAN PARTY. WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

HAROLD MEYERSON>> THANK YOU.

WARREN>> LET US TALK FIRST ABOUT A NON-PARTISAN RACE. VAL ALREADY MENTIONED IT. WHAT ABOUT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S RACE WHERE STEVE COOLEY, LISTED AS CHIEF DEPUTY ON THE BALLOT, CAMPAIGNED THE LEAST, HAD THE LEAST RESOURCES AND CAME IN FIRST AGAINST GIL GARCETTI.

VAL>> ALTHOUGH ONLY ABOUT 6,000 VOTES MORE, BUT STILL --

WARREN>> WELL, 4,000 OR 5,000.

VAL>> -- VERY TIGHT.

HAROLD MEYERSON>> BUT IT WAS A VERY UNIMPRESSIVE SHOWING FOR THE INCUMBENT DISTRICT ATTORNEY, WHO MAY BE SUFFERING FROM A BIT OF GARCETTI FATIGUE, I THINK, AMONG LOS ANGELES VOTERS. THERE'S A SERIES OF SORT OF CIVIC DISASTERS, SOME OF WHICH HE HAS VERY LIMITED RESPONSIBILITY FOR, OTHERS OF WHICH STILL RANKLE PEOPLE GOING BACK TO THE SIMPSON VERDICT. THAT'S A LOT OF BAGGAGE HE HAS, AND STEVE COOLEY WAS THE GUY WHO MANAGED TO COME OUT AHEAD LAST NIGHT.

WARREN>> ARE WE GOING TO SEE A PRETTY NASTY CAMPAIGN, DO YOU THINK, IN THAT RACE?

MIKE MADRID>> I THINK SO. I MEAN, THAT GENERALLY TENDS TO BE THE TREND, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING TOWARD UNSEATING AN INCUMBENT. ONE OF THE INTERESTING DYNAMICS IN THIS RACE IS IT'S VERY MUCH AN ISSUE-DRIVEN RACE. MR. COOLEY REALLY WAS KIND OF AN UNKNOWN UP UNTIL PROBABLY ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO WHEN THIS WHOLE RAMPART ISSUE BROKE. THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT HE'S RIDDEN IN ON, DRIVING A LOT OF THE PUBLIC SENTIMENT AND CAPITALIZING, I THINK, ON SOME OF GARCETTI'S WEAKNESSES THERE.

WARREN>> HAROLD, LET US TURN TO SOME OF THE PARTISAN ASPECTS OF THINGS. YOU'RE A PROGRESSIVE. WAS THIS A GOOD DAY FOR PROGRESSIVES IN GENERAL?

HAROLD MEYERSON>> LOCALLY, IT WAS. YOU HAD SOME ASTONISHING RESULTS LAST NIGHT. HILDA SOLIS, A PROGRESSIVE STATE SENATOR FROM THE SAN GABRIEL VALLEY, UNSEATING A LONG-TERM, I WOULD CHARACTERIZE AS RATHER LACKLUSTER, CONGRESSIONAL INCUMBENT FOR 18 YEARS, MARTY MARTINEZ. IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, BEATING HIM ESSENTIALLY 69 TO 31. UNHEARD OF. THAT WAS CERTAINLY A POSITIVE MOMENT. THERE WERE SEVERAL RACES AS WELL LOCALLY WHERE THERE WERE, I THINK, PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES WERE PUTTING TOGETHER BROAD CROSS-RACIAL SUPPORT. JACKIE GOLDBERG WINNING A MAJORITY, I THINK, OF LATINO VOTES IN HER TWO TO ONE VICTORY FOR WHAT HAD BEEN ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA'S ASSEMBLY SEAT, OUT OF WHICH HE WAS TERM LIMITED. OTHER RACES AROUND TOWN AS WELL WHERE LATINOS WERE VOTING FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN CANDIDATES IN THE JEROME HORTON SEAT IN INGLEWOOD. I THINK SOME RATHER HOPEFUL SIGNS.

WARREN>> HOW DID THE CONSERVATIVES DO?

MIKE MADRID>> I THINK THE JURY'S STILL KIND OF OUT. I THINK, ON ONE HAND, YOU'VE GOT A REALLY ENERGIZED AND EXCITED CONSERVATIVE BASE OF VOTERS UP AND DOWN THE STATE VOTING ON VARIOUS ISSUES. THE PROP 22 INITIATIVE COMES IMMEDIATELY TO MIND. I THINK JOHN MCCAIN'S ATTACKS ON THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT, IF YOU WILL, HAD THE EFFECT OF MOBILIZING AND BRINGING CONSERVATIVES TOGETHER, PERHAPS FEELING THREATENED WITHIN THEIR OWN PARTY. CURIOUSLY, IN ORANGE COUNTY, YOU SAW SOME MORE MODERATE CANDIDATES WIN IN LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS AS OPPOSED TO CONSERVATIVES. AND IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE THAT TEND TO BE MORE MODERATE, YOU SAW MORE CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATES GETTING TO THE PRIMARY. SO I THINK THE ANALYSIS IS STILL KIND OF OUT.

VAL>> HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE CAMPAIGN REFORM PROPOSITION? PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT MONEY IN POLITICS. THIS WOULD HAVE TAKEN CORPORATE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS, BUT PEOPLE STILL VOTED IT DOWN BY A WIDE MARGIN. WHAT'S GOING ON?

HAROLD MEYERSON>> I THINK THERE'S STILL A RESISTANCE FROM MANY PEOPLE TO ANY KIND OF PUBLIC FUNDING FOR CANDIDATES, LET ALONE FOR INITIATIVES.

VAL>> SO IT WAS THE PUBLIC FUNDING?

HAROLD MEYERSON>> WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS INVOLVED IN THIS. THEN IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE FORCES LINED UP ON THE SAME SIDE OF ANY PROPOSAL. EVERY BIT OF LEFT SECTARIANISM THAT USED TO CHARACTERIZE WHAT THERE WAS OF THE AMERICAN LEFT, NOW THAT THE AMERICAN LEFT BASICALLY DOESN'T EXIST, SEEMS TO HAVE SEEPED INTO THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM FORCES, WHO CANNOT AGREE ON A COMMA.

WARREN>> BUT THIS WAS JOHN MCCAIN'S ISSUE, AT LEAST IN A BROAD SENSE, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ALLEGEDLY CAME OUT BECAUSE OF JOHN MCCAIN. WHY DIDN'T THEY VOTE FOR PROP 25?

MIKE MADRID>> PUBLIC FINANCING. BOTTOM LINE. AS MUCH AS WE CAN SPECULATE AS TO WHAT COALITIONS CAME FOR OR AGAINST IT, PUBLIC SENTIMENT IS ALWAYS VERY STRONG FOR CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, NO MATTER HOW YOU PACKAGE IT. I DON'T THINK THIS RACE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE DOLLARS SPENT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. IT WAS SIMPLY A MATTER OF PUBLIC FINANCING.

VAL>> IT'S SO FUNNY. THEY DON'T PRIVATE MONEY, BUT THEY DON'T WANT THEIR PUBLIC MONEY EITHER. THEY DON'T WANT ANY MONEY SPENT ON POLITICS.

WARREN>> WHAT THEY WANT IS THE INITIATIVE. THEY VOTED, OF COURSE, IN LARGE NUMBERS ON INITIATIVES. WHAT DO YOU THINK, HAROLD, ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE DEATH PENALTY BILLS, THE PROP 21, PASSED?

HAROLD MEYERSON>> WELL, THERE IS OBVIOUSLY STILL SUPPORT FOR THAT. I THINK IT DOESN'T HAVE QUITE THE SALIENCE AS A WEDGE ISSUE IN BROADER CALIFORNIA POLITICS THAT IT USED TO HAVE. IT WAS SORT OF GOLDEN OLDIES FROM THE REPUBLICAN PAST WHO WERE PUTTING THIS ON THE BALLOT, GOERGE DUKMEJIAN, PETE WILSON. I DON'T SEE IT RESONATING IN THE LARGER CANDIDATE POLITICS OF THE STATE, BUT CERTAINLY IN AND OF THEMSELVES, THEY HAD ENOUGH OOMPH BEHIND THEM TO GET PASSED.

WARREN>> SO THIS IS OLD NEWS?

MIKE MADRID>> YEAH, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, I THINK HAROLD'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IT IS. THEY ARE KIND OF REHASHED ISSUES THAT ARE BEING BROUGHT UP. I GUESS THE SILVER LINING IN THAT IS THAT THEY ARE STILL ENJOYING STRONG PUBLIC SUPPORT. I DON'T KNOW IF PROP 22 WOULD BE A NEW REPUBLICAN SONG AS OPPOSED TO AN OLD, BUT IT STILL SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN ISSUES CLEARLY THAT WERE ON THIS BALLOT INITIATIVE THAT HAVE STRONG PUBLIC SENTIMENT. EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT BE SHOWING UP IN THE POLLS, THEY'RE DRIVING MORE AND MORE PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED.

VAL>> AND THEN THERE'S SOME, WHAT SEEMS TO ME AT LEAST, PERHAPS YOU GUYS CAN EXPLAIN THIS, CONTRADICTIONS IN VOTER PATTERNS. ON THE ONE HAND, THEY APPROVE PROP 21 WHICH IS A GET-TOUGH PROPOSITION ON JUVENILE OFFENDERS. ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY SAY ABSOLUTELY NOT. DON'T SPEND ANY MORE MONEY ON CRIME LABS.

HAROLD MEYERSON>> THE CRIME LABS THING MYSTIFIES ME, I MUST SAY. IT WAS THE ONLY BOND ISSUE THAT WENT DOWN.

VAL>> WHY?

HAROLD MEYERSON>> I HAVE NO THEORY ON THAT WHATEVER.

MIKE MADRID>> VAL, I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING DYNAMICS OF THIS WHOLE ELECTION. MY THEORY, AND PLEASE POKE HOLES IN IT IF YOU WILL, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST SOPHISTICATED ELECTORATES THIS MARCH 2000 THAT WE'VE HAD PROBABLY IN THE LAST DECADE OR SO. I THINK THE INTEREST, AGAIN, IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY, MADE PEOPLE FOCUS IN PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT EARLIER. MAYBE IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE MARCH WEATHER AS OPPOSED TO THE JUNE WEATHER. I THINK PEOPLE WERE REALLY FOCUSING IN, LOOKING AT, READING THE ISSUES AND DECIDING HOW THEY FELT ON AN ISSUE-BY-ISSUE BASIS.

WARREN>> DO YOU THINK, BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THAT YOU BOTH AGREE THAT CRIME IS KIND OF AN OUT-OF-DATE ISSUE AT THIS POINT? ARE WE GOING TO SEE MORE SOCIAL ISSUES? ARE WE GOING TO SEE MORE THINGS ON THE BALLOT, WHICH IS OF COURSE VERY POPULAR, THE INITIATIVE MEASURE? PEOPLE DON'T LIKE POLITICIANS. THEY LIKE THE INITIATIVE A LOT. ARE WE GOING TO SEE MORE THINGS LIKE PROP 22? MORE THINGS OF THAT NATURE?

HAROLD MEYERSON>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S ALWAYS POLITICAL FIGURES WHO ARE GOING TO SEE A MARKET FOR THAT, THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE SOME KIND OF ISSUE TO WHICH THEY CAN HITCH THEIR STAR OR IT'S A WEDGE ISSUE THAT CAN BUST UP MAYBE SOME POTENTIAL DEMOCRATIC VOTERS. THE INTERESTING SORT OF LONG-RANGE ISSUE FOR CALIFORNIA IS, EVEN IF A NUMBER OF LATINO VOTERS ARE CULTURALLY CONSERVATIVE, THEY'RE ALSO ECONOMICALLY PROGRESSIVE. I CAN SEE SORT OF DOING INITIATIVES. THIS SORT OF THING VERSUS MAYBE A HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE INITIATIVE COMPETING FOR THE ALLEGIANCE OF LATINO CALIFORNIA IN YEARS TO COME.

WARREN>> INTERESTING.

MIKE MADRID>> YEAH, INTERESTING. I WOULD AGREE, AGAIN, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. BUT WHAT I BELIEVE IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS THESE EMERGING TRENDS ARE GOING TO BE COUCHED PERHAPS IN OLDER TERMS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE EDUCATION ISSUE WILL VERY MUCH BECOME A CRIME ISSUE. PEOPLE WILL SAY THE BEST PREVENTION PROGRAM FOR JAILS OR KEEPING CRIME RATES LOW IS BY HAVING A GOOD EDUCATION. YOU BROUGHT UP THE LATINO AND IT'S AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE.

WARREN>> IT'S A PROGRESSIVE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS.

MIKE MADRID>> ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME ISSUES LIKE SCHOOL VOUCHERS, WHICH IS OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORTED BY THE LATINO COMMUNITY AND, AGAIN, CAN BE PACKAGED AS A WAY OF PROVIDING A BETTER FUTURE FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

VAL>> FINAL QUESTION. EDUCATION IS ON THE TOP OF THE VOTERS' LISTS. IT'S ON THE TOP OF THE CANDIDATES. WHICH PARTY, WHICH CANDIDATE, GORE OR BUSH, IS GOING TO GRAB THAT ISSUE MOST EFFECTIVELY?

MIKE MADRID>> I THINK THEY'RE BOTH GOING TO TRY. THE ONE WHO'S MOST SUCCESSFUL IS GOING TO BE THE ONE WHO CAN GRAB IT AS A REFORM ISSUE. NOT ONLY AS BETTERING OUR SCHOOLS, BUT ACTUALLY REFORMING THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE. I THINK, ON THAT ONE, GEORGE W. BUSH HAS THE DECIDED ADVANTAGE.

HAROLD MEYERSON>> ALTHOUGH, I WOULD SAY, IN THIS STATE, THIS IS AL GORE'S STATE TO LOSE, I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF THE REPUBLICANS, COME THE FALL, REALLY DO A FULL TILT PUSH IN THIS STATE.

WARREN>> HAROLD, MIKE, GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH WITH US.

VAL>> THANK YOU.

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW, THE BATTLE IS ON IN VENTURA COUNTY. THE RESULT COULD TURN LOTS OF OPEN LAND INTO HUNDREDS OF HOME LOTS.

>> WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS GROWTH IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. UNDERSTANDING THAT SIX MILLION PEOPLE WILL BE MOVING HERE OVER THE NEXT 15 TO 20 YEARS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ALL HAVE TO ADDRESS.

WARREN>> THAT'S COMING UP TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, ISRAEL WANTS TO WITHDRAW TROOPS FROM LEBANON WHETHER SYRIA'S MADE AN AGREEMENT OR NOT. HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE PROSPECTS FOR PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST? THAT'S TOMORROW.

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VAL>> FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING. NO MORE POLITICAL ADS, AT LEAST UNTIL OCTOBER. THANK YOU ALL, BUT STAY TUNED FOR PLEDGE. TAKE CARE.

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