03/10/00

LC000310

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> IMAGINE SURVIVING A BRUTAL ASSAULT, BOTH YOU AND THE POLICE KNOW WHO YOUR ATTACKER IS, BUT INVESTIGATORS CAN'T DO A THING ABOUT IT.

NOAH NELSON>> JERI ELSTER'S BROAD SMILE AND EASYGOING MANNER ARE DECEIVING. THEY HIDE THE ANGUISH SHE'S KNOWN SINCE THE NIGHT, EIGHT YEARS AGO, WHEN SHE WAS TIED, RAPED AND BEATEN BY A STRANGER.

JERI ELSTER>> IT'S A HORRIBLE FEELING. YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'VE BEEN PUNISHED FOR WHAT HE DID. I AM PUNISHED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE AND HE'LL NEVER BE PUNISHED. 

VAL>> WHY IS IT CERTAIN CULTURES DOMINATE OTHERS? A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING AUTHOR HAS AN ANSWER.

JARED DIAMOND>> IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IQ OR ANYTHING ABOUT HUMAN BIOLOGY. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE CONTINENTS.

WARREN>> IT'S A CLASSIC HOLLYWOOD STORY, THE LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ART AND COMMERCE. CRITICS CALL THE 1924 FILM "GREED" A CLASSIC, BUT IT RAN NINE AND ONE HALF HOURS. STUDIO CHIEFS ORDERED IT CUT AND THAT'S WHERE OUR STORY BEGINS.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR FRIDAY, MARCH 10, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

GTE
A COMPANY COMMITTED TO TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXCELLENCE AND AN OPEN DIALOGUE AMONG ALL PEOPLE.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, THE SCIENCE OF POLICE WORK. WE'VE HEARD A LOT RECENTLY ABOUT GENETIC TESTING AND THE USE OF DNA TO HELP FREE CONVICTS WHO TURN OUT TO BE INNOCENT AFTER ALL. BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE SITUATION IS REVERSED AND DNA TESTS PROVE THAT A FREE MAN SHOULD BE BEHIND BARS?

VAL>> THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION MAY NOT BE AS SIMPLE AS YOU'D THINK. IN FACT, IN SOME CASES, THE LAW ACTUALLY PREVENTS CRIMINALS FROM BEING CHARGED EVEN WHEN POLICE KNOW THEY'RE GUILTY. NOAH NELSON EXPLAINS.

NOAH>> JERI ELSTER'S BROAD SMILE AND EASYGOING MANNER ARE DECEIVING. THEY HIDE THE ANGUISH SHE'S KNOWN SINCE THE NIGHT, EIGHT YEARS AGO, WHEN SHE WAS TIED, RAPED AND BEATEN BY A STRANGER WHO BROKE INTO HER HOME WHILE SHE SLEPT.

JERI ELSTER>> A PERSON CAME IN AND WOKE ME UP WITH HIS WEIGHT ON TOP OF ME. I LOOKED OVER MY SHOULDER AND SAW A MAN AND HE PROCEEDED TO KEEP ME TIED AND RAPED ME AND ROBBED MY HOUSE AND WAS HERE FOR ABOUT TWO AND ONE HALF HOURS. I REMEMBER HIS VOICE AND I REMEMBER WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE AND I AM HAUNTED.

NOAH>> THE MOST HAUNTING THING FOR JERI ELSTER IS THAT SHE NOW KNOWS, BECAUSE OF DNA TESTING, WHO THE RAPIST IS. HE'S A MAN ALREADY IN JAIL ON OTHER CHARGES. BUT BECAUSE THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS IN HER CASE EXPIRED BEFORE THE IDENTIFICATION WAS MADE, HER ATTACKER WILL NEVER BE CHARGED.

JERI ELSTER>> IT'S A FRIGHTENING THING TO THINK ABOUT. I ALMOST THINK IT WAS BETTER WHEN I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING AND I COULD JUST DO MY SPIRITUAL WORK BASED ON "I WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF" AND "I FORGIVE THE PERSON WHO DID THIS". IT'S SCARIER NOW THAN IT WAS WHEN THERE WAS NOBODY.

NOAH>> THE USE OF DNA EVIDENCE COULD REVOLUTIONIZE THE CALIFORNIA CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, ESPECIALLY CONCERNING SEXUAL ASSAULTS. RIGHT NOW, THERE IS A SIX-YEAR LIMIT ON FILING RAPE CHARGES, BUT DNA EVIDENCE IN THE FORM OF SEMEN, BLOOD AND SALIVA SAMPLES LASTS INDEFINITELY.

LOU CORREA OF THE CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY SAYS THE LAW IS OUT OF STEP WITH TECHNOLOGY. HE'S INTRODUCED A BILL THAT WOULD DO AWAY WITH TIME LIMITS ALTOGETHER.

LOU CORREA>> SO IN THE LONG TERM, WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH MY LAW IS BRING ALL THESE INDIVIDUALS TO JUSTICE, MAKE SURE THAT THE SIX-YEAR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS DOES NOT BECOME A SHIELD.

JERI ELSTER>> MY NAME IS JERI ELSTER. I'M A RAPE SURVIVOR.

NOAH>> ELSTER'S ORDEAL HAS BECOME A RALLYING POINT FOR BACKERS OF THE BILL. RECENTLY SHE AND OTHER SUPPORTERS OF IT TESTIFIED BEFORE A STATE COMMITTEE DEMANDING AN END TO WHAT THEY CALL THE LEGAL SHIELDING OF RAPISTS.

NOAH>> HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL KNOWING THAT THIS PERSON WILL NOT BE PUNISHED FOR WHAT HE DID?

JERI ELSTER>> IT'S A HORRIBLE FEELING. IT'S A HORRIBLE FEELING. YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'VE BEEN PUNISHED FOR WHAT HE DID. I AM PUNISHED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE AND HE'LL NEVER BE PUNISHED. YOU DON'T GET OVER THAT.

NOAH>> SUPPORT FOR THE BILL IS GAINING STRENGTH, BUT CRITICS SAY, IF PASSED, IT COULD HURT THE ABILITY OF INNOCENT PEOPLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES IN COURT.

MIKE YAMAMOTO>> DELAY HURTS THE DEFENDANT FAR MORE THAN IT DOES THE GOVERNMENT.

NOAH>> MIKE YAMAMOTO REPRESENTS THE 2,500 MEMBERS OF THE CALIFORNIA ATTORNEYS FOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE.

MIKE YAMAMOTO>> DON'T FORGET WHO'S THE ORGANIZED SOURCE INVESTIGATING AND COLLECTING MATERIAL AND PRESERVING IT. IT IS NOT THE DEFENDANT. IT IS -- NORMALLY SPEAKING, IT IS THE GOVERNMENT AND IT ESPECIALLY ISN'T THE DEFENDANT WHO DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT CRIME AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

NOAH>> FEW DENY THAT THE USE OF DNA EVIDENCE COULD SEND MORE CRIMINALS TO JAIL, BUT IT'S A SWORD WITH RAMIFICATIONS THAT ALSO CUTS A DIFFERENT WAY. IT CAN ALSO FREE THE INNOCENT. NO ONE KNOWS THIS BETTER THAN HERMAN ATKINS OF INGLEWOOD. HE SERVED 12 YEARS OF A 45-YEAR PRISON SENTENCE FOR A SEXUAL ASSAULT THAT OCCURRED IN RIVERSIDE COUNTY THAT HE DID NOT COMMIT.

HERMAN ATKINS>> TWELVE YEARS OF WAKING UP ALMOST EVERY DAY AND REALIZING THAT YOU'RE STILL IN PRISON FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU DIDN'T DO. YOU'RE IN HELL AND YOU'RE STILL THERE FOR SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T DO.

NOAH>> ATKINS, NOW 34, SAYS DNA TESTING SAVED WHAT'S LEFT OF HIS LIFE.

HERMAN ATKINS>> MY EXONERATION CENTERED AROUND THAT STAIN, THAT ONE STAIN, THAT WAS FOUND ON THE VICTIM'S SWEATER AND WHICH SHE STATED THAT THE ATTACKER, AFTER EJACULATING INSIDE HER, CLEANED HIMSELF ON HER CLOTHES. IT WAS THAT VERY STAIN THAT WAS TESTED AND LED TO ME BEING EXONERATED FROM THE CHARGES ITSELF.

NOAH>> ATKINS RELISHES HIS FREEDOM, BUT HE'S ANGRY THAT IT TOOK SEVEN YEARS FOR THE COURTS TO EVEN ALLOW A DNA REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE IN HIS CASE. HE IS ONE OF ONLY 64 PEOPLE IN THE U.S. WHO HAVE BEEN FREED FROM PRISON AS A RESULT OF DNA TESTING.

A LAW SCHOOL PROGRAM IN NEW YORK CALLED "THE INNOCENCE PROJECT" HELPED FREE ATKINS AND 37 OTHERS WHO WERE WRONGLY CONVICTED. ATTORNEYS HERE SAY THE COURTS OFTEN DISREGARD THE CHANCE TO SET THINGS RIGHT.

PETER NEUFELD>> WE HAVE FOUND A NUMBER OF CASES WHERE THE DEFENDANTS THEMSELVES, FOR NINE, TEN, FIFTEEN YEARS, HAVE BEEN DEMANDING DNA TESTING, ONLY TO BE REJECTED BY TRIAL COURTS AND APPELLATE COURTS IN THE STATE AND IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM AS WELL. THEY SIMPLY SAY THE DOCTRINE OF FINALITY CONTROLS, WHAT'S OVER IS OVER, WE DON'T WANT TO OPEN THE LID ON THAT BOX. GOD KNOWS WHAT WE MIGHT FIND. I MEAN, IT'S THAT KIND OF, LIKE, BURY YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND ATTITUDE TO JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS.

NOAH>> ATTORNEYS AT "THE INNOCENCE PROJECT" SAY FOOT-DRAGGING BY PROSECUTORS AND THE COURTS RESULTS IN THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE SPENDING THEIR LIVES IN JAIL.

LISA KAHN OF THE LA COUNTY DA'S OFFICE SAYS PROSECUTORS ARE OFTEN RELUCTANT TO RE-OPEN CASES BECAUSE DNA EVIDENCE IS ONLY ONE MEASURE OF WHETHER SOMEONE IS GUILTY OR INNOCENT.

LISA KAHN>> DNA EVIDENCE IS ANOTHER BIT OF EVIDENCE IN A CASE AND EVERY CASE IS JUDGED ON THE TOTALITY OF CIRCUMSTANCES. SO ARE WE GOING TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE GOING TO JUST ELIMINATE THE COURT SYSTEM AND JUST HAVE A DNA TEST AND BE ABLE TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL? OF COURSE NOT.

NOAH>> THE DEBATE OVER DNA AND THE COURTS EXPOSES THE BITTERNESS OF THOSE WRONGFULLY ACCUSED LIKE HERMAN ATKINS. THE DEBATE ALSO EXPOSES THE FRUSTRATION OF CRIME VICTIMS LIKE JERI ELSTER, WHO FEARS THE DAY WHEN HER ATTACKER IS RELEASED FROM PRISON.

JERI ELSTER>> HE DOES NEED TO BE PUT AWAY AND HE'S NOT GOING TO BE PUT AWAY. HE'S GOING TO GET OUT IN 2007 AND DO IT AGAIN AND THAT'S WHAT UPSETS ME.

WARREN>> SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN CUT BOTH WAYS?

NOAH>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. THE INNOCENT CAN BE SET FREE AND THE GUILTY CAN BE CAUGHT.

WARREN>> IF THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT SOMEBODY HAS BEEN WRONGLY CONVICTED, WHY DO PROSECUTORS AND OTHERS RESIST RE-OPENING THE CASE?

NOAH>> THERE'S BEEN A BACKLASH IN THE COURTS IN RECENT YEARS, NOT WANTING TO STRETCH OUT THE APPELLATE PROCESS. I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT. NOT WANTING TO ADMIT WRONGDOING OR ERRORS IS ANOTHER PART OF IT. AS ONE PROSECUTOR TOLD ME, LAWYERS ARE NOT SCIENTISTS. JUDGES ARE NOT SCIENTISTS. THERE'S AN INTIMIDATION FACTOR WITH DEALING WITH SCIENTIFIC MATTERS AND DNA IS ONE OF THEM.

VAL>> I SEE. THE QUESTION, THOUGH, THAT WAS ON MY MIND IS, MY GOD, RAPE IS SUCH A SERIOUS CRIME. HOW IS IT THAT WE HAVE A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS AT ALL, ALBEIT FOR SIX YEARS?

NOAH>> THERE'S A STATUTE ON ALMOST EVERY CRIME EXCEPT MURDER. THE THOUGHT IS THAT, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME, WITNESSES' MEMORIES GO, EVIDENCE SCATTERS TO THE FOUR WINDS AND IT'S NOT REALLY FAIR TO THE DEFENDANTS TO HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE INNOCENT AND HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE CRIME, YEARS LATER.

VAL>> I SEE.

WARREN>> NOAH, THANKS VERY MUCH.

VAL>> WELL, WHY IS IT CERTAIN RACES AND CULTURES COLONIZE OTHERS AND WHY DO SOME DEVELOP TECHNOLOGY WHILE OTHERS DON'T? THAT SWEEPING QUESTION IS WHAT DROVE UCLA PROFESSOR, JARED DIAMOND, TO WRITE THE PULITZER PRIZE WINNING BOOK, "GUNS, GERMS & STEEL". WARREN SPOKE WITH DIAMOND FOR TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

WARREN>> JARED DIAMOND, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

JARED DIAMOND>> A PLEASURE.

WARREN>> YOU HAVE SO MANY THINGS TO SAY ABOUT SO MANY SUBJECTS, I DON'T KNOW QUITE WHERE TO START, SO LET'S BEGIN HERE. WHY ARE YOU AND I, EUROPEAN MEN, SITTING HERE IN LOS ANGELES IN THE YEAR 2000?

JARED DIAMOND>> THAT HITS A BIG QUESTION. WHY IS THAT, SITTING AT THIS TABLE, ARE YOU AND I OF EUROPEAN ORIGIN RATHER THAN, 500 YEARS AGO, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TWO NATIVE-AMERICANS HERE? AND CONVERSELY, WHY IS IT NOT THE CASE THAT NATIVE-AMERICANS NOW OCCUPY EUROPE AND THE LAST EUROPEANS ARE LIVING IN SOME RESERVATIONS UP IN THE ALPS? THAT'S THE BIG PATTERN OF HISTORY THAT EUROPEANS RATHER THAN PEOPLE FROM OTHER CONTINENTS EXPANDED OVER THE WORLD.

WARREN>> SO WHY DID SOME PEOPLE DO THIS COLONIZING RATHER THAN OTHERS?

JARED DIAMOND>> A SHORT ANSWER WOULD BE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IQ OR ANYTHING ABOUT HUMAN BIOLOGY. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE CONTINENTS. BRIEFLY, IT'S THAT THE EURASIAN CONTINENT HAD MORE AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE BECOMING FARMERS 13,000 YEARS AGO. MORE WILD PLANTS AND ANIMALS THAT COULD BE DOMESTICATED, SO THEY BECAME FARMERS. SO THEY SETTLED DOWN, DEVELOPED ARMIES, STEEL TOOLS, ATOMIC BOMBS, KINGDOMS AND WENT ON TO CONQUER THE WORLD.

WARREN>> WHEREAS, THE PEOPLE IN ASIA AND IN THE AMERICAS DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME ENVIRONMENTAL ADVANTAGES?

JARED DIAMOND>> THAT'S RIGHT. LET'S TAKE AN EXTREME EXAMPLE. ABORIGINAL AUSTRALIANS. THEY ALL REMAINED HUNTER-GATHERERS. NONE OF THEM WERE FARMERS OR HERDERS. WHY NOT? YOU CAN'T DOMESTICATE KANGAROOS AND YOU CAN'T FARM EUCALYPTUS TREES, SO AUSTRALIA WAS EXTREME. IN THE NEW WORLD, THERE CERTAINLY WERE IMPORTANT CROPS DOMESTICATED, SUCH AS POTATOES, CORN AND TOMATOES, BUT VERY FEW ANIMALS DOMESTICATED IN THE NEW WORLD. JUST DOGS AND TURKEYS AND GUINEA PIGS AND LLAMAS. BUT YOU CAN'T MILK A GUINEA PIG AND YOU DON'T USE DOGS TO PULL A CART, SO NATIVE-AMERICANS WERE REALLY AT A DISADVANTAGE WHEN IT CAME TO DOMESTIC ANIMALS.

WARREN>> SO THE IMPLICATION HERE IS THAT THERE'S NO INHERENT SUPERIORITY ON THE PART OF PEOPLE WHO BEGAN IN ANY ONE PART OF THE WORLD OR ANOTHER? IT'S AN ACCIDENT OF WHERE THEIR LOCATION IS?

JARED DIAMOND>> EXACTLY. IT'S ALL THE ENVIRONMENT SEPARATE FROM PEOPLE AND NONE OF THIS GRAND PATTERN OF HISTORY HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE PEOPLE. THE PROOF OF IT IS THAT, WHEN YOU TAKE EUROPEANS, THE SUPPOSEDLY SUPERIOR EUROPEANS, AND TRANSPLANT THEM TO GREENLAND WHERE THERE ARE STONE TOOL-USING INUIT, AND YOU COME BACK 500 YEARS LATER, WHO IS EXTINCT? THE SUPERIOR EUROPEANS AND THE INUIT HAVE TAKEN OVER GREENLAND.

WARREN>> HOW DID YOU COME FIRST TO CONSIDER THIS QUESTION? IT WAS ON A BEACH IN NEW GUINEA, AS I UNDERSTAND IT.

JARED DIAMOND>> THAT'S RIGHT. THE QUESTION HAD BEEN BREWING IN MY MIND FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE, SINCE 1964, I'VE BEEN DOING BIOLOGICAL FIELDWORK IN NEW GUINEA. THAT'S THAT BIG TROPICAL ISLAND NORTH OF AUSTRALIA WHERE PEOPLE WERE USING STONE TOOLS UNTIL RECENTLY. I WENT OUT THERE IN 1964, YOUNG AND NAÏVE, THINKING THESE PEOPLE ARE PRIMITIVE IN THEIR TECHNOLOGY, SO THEY'RE PRIMITIVE UPSTAIRS. IT TOOK ME ABOUT A DAY THERE TO REALIZE THEY'RE REALLY SMART PEOPLE.

THEN FINALLY, IN 1972, A NEW GUINEAN ASKED ME STRAIGHT OUT, "WHY IS IT THAT YOU EUROPEANS CAME HERE WITH PLENTY OF CARGO" -- MEANING STEEL AXES AND UMBRELLAS AND STUFF LIKE THAT -- "AND WE NEW GUINEANS HAD NONE?" I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO ANSWER HIM. IT TOOK ME ABOUT -- IT WAS 18 YEARS BEFORE I COULD START ENGAGING WITH THE QUESTION. IT'S THE BIGGEST QUESTION OF HISTORY, BUT IT'S HARD TO ANSWER.

WARREN>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE FURTHER IMPLICATIONS OF IT THAT WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON AS YET AND WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT THAT YOU WROTE A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING BOOK ABOUT IT AND CONTINUE TO LECTURE ABOUT IT AROUND THE WORLD?

JARED DIAMOND>> I'D SAY THE MOST OBVIOUS QUESTION IS THAT MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE RACISTS STILL. WHEN YOU ASK MOST PEOPLE, WHY IS THAT EUROPEANS BROUGHT AFRICANS AS SLAVES TO THE NEW WORLD AND CONQUERED NATIVE-AMERICANS, IF THEY ARE POLITICALLY CORRECT AMERICANS, THEY'LL SAY, "WELL, UH, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT LET'S FACE IT. EUROPEANS ARE HIGHER IQ AND THE WORK ETHIC AND ALL THAT." IN MOST COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD, THEY WON'T EVEN APOLOGIZE. THEY'LL SAY IT'S INTELLIGENCE.

THE REASON PEOPLE COME BACK TO THESE RACIST INTERPRETATIONS IS THEY'RE NOT TOLD WHAT IS THE REAL REASON WHY EUROPEANS BROUGHT AFRICANS AS SLAVES TO THE NEW WORLD INSTEAD OF AFRICANS BRINGING EUROPEANS AS SLAVES TO ABORIGINAL AUSTRALIA. SO I'D SAY THE MAIN SOCIAL IMPACT OF MY BOOK IS IN UNDERMINING THE INTELLECTUAL UNDERPINNINGS, THE NEED FOR RACIST INTERPRETATIONS OF HISTORY, BY PROVIDING A CORRECT EXPLANATION.

WARREN>> YOU'RE A PHYSIOLOGIST. WHAT ABOUT THE PHYSICAL DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN WHAT WE CALL THE RACES. HOW IMPORTANT ARE THEY FROM A SCIENTIFIC STANDPOINT?

JARED DIAMOND>> THERE ARE PHYSICAL DISTINCTIONS, BIOLOGICAL DISTINCTIONS, BETWEEN PEOPLE. IT'S NOT THE CASE THAT THERE ARE NO BIOLOGICAL DISTINCTIONS. ANY OF US CAN LOOK A PERSON IN THE FACE AND RIGHT AWAY SAY THAT'S A SWEDE OR THAT'S A NIGERIAN OR THAT'S AN ABORIGINAL AUSTRALIAN AND YOU NEVER MAKE ANY MISTAKES. SO THERE ARE EXTERNAL DISTINCTIONS AND THERE ARE INTERNAL DISTINCTIONS. WHEN I GO TO NEW GUINEA, IT'S AN AREA WITH MALARIA AND I'M TAKING ANTI-MALARIAL PILLS. I'VE GOT TO, WHEREAS MY NEW GUINEA FRIENDS HAVE GENETIC ADAPTATIONS AGAINST MALARIA BECAUSE THEIR ANCESTORS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 40,000 YEARS AND MINE HAVE NOT. SO THERE ARE BIOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES. WHAT THERE IS NOT IS ANY EVIDENCE FOR BIOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES IN PROBLEM-SOLVING ABILITY IN IQ.

WARREN>> THANKS VERY MUCH FOR TALKING TO US.

JARED DIAMOND>> YOU ARE WELCOME.

WARREN>> TIME NOW FOR US TO CHANGE DIRECTIONS. WE WANT TO TAKE SOME TIME TO SHARE COMMENTS FROM YOU, OUR VIEWERS, REGARDING RECENT PROGRAMS.

WE GOT A LETTER FROM ROGER NANCE OF LOS ANGELES ABOUT LAST WEEK'S COVERAGE OF THE LAPD CORRUPTION SCANDAL. HE WRITES: "WHY DOESN'T ANYONE GET THE MESSAGE? IF AN ORGANIZATION IS IMBUED WITH THE CULTURE OF MEDIOCRITY, WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT ITS LEADER, CHIEF PARKS?"

VAL>> AND ON ELECTION NIGHT, ONE OF OUR GUESTS TALKED ABOUT THE PROBLEMS OF THE OPEN PRIMARY SYSTEM AND HOW SHE WAS GIVEN THE WRONG PARTY'S BALLOT AT HER POLLING PLACE. WELL, AS IT TURNS OUT, ONE OF OUR VIEWERS, LIZ PARKER, SENT AN E-MAIL COMPLAINING ABOUT A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE. SHE WROTE THAT A POLL WORKER "WAS WORKING HIS WAY THROUGH THE PACKAGE OF REPUBLICAN BALLOTS AND, WHEN THOSE RAN OUT, HE WAS GOING TO OPEN THE PACKAGE OF DEMOCRATIC BALLOTS. YIKES!"

WE ARE ALWAYS INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHTS, COMMENTS OR EXPERIENCES. HERE'S HOW YOU CAN REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

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WARREN>> SEVENTY-SIX YEARS AGO, THE ACCLAIMED FILMMAKER, ERICH VON STROHEIM, MADE A FILM CALLED "GREED". IT WAS BASED ON A WELL-KNOWN NOVEL OF THE TIME AND STROHEIM ENVISIONED IT AS A DETAILED RE-TELLING OF THE BOOK. THE PROBLEM WAS, IT HAD A RUNNING TIME OF NINE AND ONE HALF HOURS.

VAL>> WELL, NEEDLESS TO SAY, ONCE MGM'S LOUIS B. MAYER AND IRVING THALBURG GOT THEIR HANDS ON IT, "GREED" ENDED UP ABOUT TWO HOURS LONG. BUT A NEWLY-RESTORED VERSION OF "GREED" USES STILLS AND DIGITAL ANIMATION TO RECREATE MUCH OF VON STROHEIM'S ORIGINAL VERSION. PATT MORRISON SPOKE WITH JOSEF VON STROHEIM ABOUT HIS FATHER AND THE RE-MAKING OF A MASTERPIECE IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

PATT>> JOSEF VON STROHEIM, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. LAST YEAR, YOUR FATHER'S MASTERPIECE, "GREED", WAS RE-ASSEMBLED AS BEST IT COULD BE TO ITS ORIGINAL FORM AND RE-AIRED. HOW CLOSE DO YOU THINK IT CAME TO RESEMBLING WHAT YOUR FATHER ORIGINALLY CONCEIVED IT TO BE?

JOSEF VON STROHEIM>> I DID SEE IT AFTER IT WAS CUT DOWN. I SAW IT ONCE IN NEW YORK. WE GOT A PRINT FROM THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART IN NEW YORK. IT WAS WHEN I WAS IN THE ARMY AND IT WAS ABOUT 1950. IT WAS LONG. THE WAY THAT MY FATHER WANTED TO DEPICT THE CHARACTERS IN THE PICTURE, IT TOOK TIME. THE WORK THAT WAS DONE TO RECONSTRUCT IT AND PUT IT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN WAS REALLY A FEAT OF EXTRAORDINARY EFFORT.

PATT>> THE FILM WAS BASED ON THE FRANK NORRIS NOVEL, "MCTEAGUE". WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WAS ABOUT THE BOOK THAT ATTRACTED YOUR FATHER TO IT AND MADE HIM WANT TO FILM IT VIRTUALLY WORD FOR WORD?

JOSEF VON STROHEIM>> HE HAD A CERTAIN WAY THAT HE COULD EXPLAIN WHAT HE WANTED TO EXPLAIN BETWEEN THE BOOK AND THE PICTURE, AND HE HAD TO DO IT HIS WAY. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MY DAD REALLY WANTED THE ACTORS TO DO, TO ACTUALLY SAY THE WORDS THAT WERE IN THE SCRIPT BECAUSE HE WAS AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO COULD LIP-READ. WHEN HE GOT THROUGH, IT WAS SO LONG I IMAGINE THAT HE ALSO REALIZED THAT FACT. 

WHOEVER THE POWERS WERE TO BE, WHETHER IT WAS THALBURG OR L.B. MAYER OR WHOEVER, DECIDED TO CUT IT DOWN. THEY JUST GAVE IT TO AN EDITOR WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHAT MY DAD HAD IN MIND AND MY DAD WASN'T THERE ANYMORE TO TELL THEM HIS THOUGHTS. SO THEY JUST USED THE AX AND THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR AND THE BARRELS TO PUT THE FILM IN. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO IT, NOBODY KNOWS.

PATT>> WHY DO YOU THINK THAT, IN THIS DAY AND AGE OF IMMENSE FILM TECHNOLOGY, THERE IS STILL SUCH A FASCINATION WITH THIS FILM AND SO MUCH EFFORT PUT INTO RESTORING IT?

JOSEF VON STROHEIM>> IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY FEAT. HE HAD THE SCRIPT, THE ORIGINAL SCRIPT, PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER FROM THE STILLS AND THE SCENES THAT WERE MISSING. THEN THEY DID A LOT OF OPTICALS AND RICH MIDLAND, WHO DID THE WORK WITH ALL THE OPTICALS AND THE MUSIC. THE SCORE IS JUST ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING AND HE WENT TO EUROPE TO DO THAT. IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT TURNED OUT BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE OF THE QUALITY. NOT ONLY THE QUALITY, BUT THE MECHANICS OF WHAT HE DID WITH THE STILLS AND MOVING THE CAMERA AROUND AND PANNING FROM ONE PERSON TO ANOTHER AND EXPLAINING WITH THE TITLES ALSO. HE RE-DID A LOT OF THE TITLES.

PATT>> I THINK RE-MAKING A MOVIE SOUNDS HARDER THAN MAKING A MOVIE.

JOSEF VON STROHEIM>> I THINK SO. ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE, I MEAN, I'VE DONE A LOT OF PICTURES AND I WAS IN THE BUSINESS FOR 50 YEARS AS A SOUND EDITOR. 

PATT>> YOUR FATHER'S METICULOUSNESS IS LEGENDARY, MAKING SURE THAT SOLDIERS' UNIFORMS HAD THE SOLDIER'S INITIALS ON THEIR UNDERWEAR, SERVING THE PROPER VINTAGE CHAMPAGNE IN THE SHOOTING OF THE SCENE TO SUIT TO THE TIMING OF THAT SCENE. HE EVEN BUILT MONTE CARLO FOR THE FILMING OF ONE OF HIS FILMS UP AT UNIVERSAL STUDIOS. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS METICULOUSNESS? WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

JOSEF VON STROHEIM>> WELL, I THINK SOMEBODY ACTUALLY HIT IT ON THE NOSE WHERE THEY SAID THAT HE'S THE MAN YOU LOVED TO HATE. I THINK THAT HE PROBABLY WANTED TO LIVE UP TO THAT TITLE. I THINK HE WAS PROUD OF WHAT HE DID. SOMEBODY SAID THAT HE WAS TEN YEARS AHEAD OF HIS TIME AND HE CORRECTED THEM AND SAID, "NO, TWENTY YEARS."

PATT>> JOSEF VON STROHEIM, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

JOSEF VON STROHEIM>> THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT AND SPENDING SOME TIME WITH ME.

VAL>> IF YOU HAVE CABLE, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THE RESTORED VERSION OF "GREED" NEXT MONTH. IT'S AIRING MONDAY, APRIL 10, AT 3:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING ON TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES.

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

ON MONDAY, ADULTS LEARNING ENGLISH COULD GET KICKED OUT OF THEIR SCHOOL TO MAKE ROOM FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, BUT THEY SAY THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GO.

>> THIS IS MY MOTHER. SHE COUNTS ON ME. I COUNT ON HEAVEN. OUR COMMUNITY COUNTS ON HEAVEN, SO WE NOT GONNA GO NOWHERE. WE DON'T AGREE WITH THAT DECISION.

WARREN>> THAT'S MONDAY RIGHT HERE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. I'LL BE BACK ON THE RADIO MONDAY WITH WHICH WAY LA.

KCRW 89.9 FM, WHICH WAY LA
WEEKDAYS FROM 1-2 P.M.
REBROADCAST AT 7:00 P.M.

VAL>> AND FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A WONDERFUL WEEKEND. TAKE CARE.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

GTE
A COMPANY COMMITTED TO TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXCELLENCE AND AN OPEN DIALOGUE AMONG ALL PEOPLE.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-644-4159. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFE AND TIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.