03/14/00

LC000314

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> LA UNIFIED IS SCRAMBLING TO FIND CLASSROOM SPACE FOR A LOT OF STUDENTS, BUT ONE OF THEIR PLANS IS TOUCHING A RAW NERVE.

RAMON SANCHEZ>> IT CHANGED MY LIFE. IT GAVE ME A CHANCE.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS, EVANS HAS BEEN HOME TO THOUSANDS OF IMMIGRANTS TRYING TO LEARN ENGLISH, STUDYING FOR CITIZENSHIP AND GETTING THEIR HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS.

VAL>> IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, THE MAYOR WANTS TO USE TOBACCO SETTLEMENT MONEY TO SETTLE LAWSUITS FROM THE RAMPART SCANDAL. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WARREN>> ALSO TONIGHT, TWO EXTRAORDINARY PUBLIC APOLOGIES. POPE JOHN PAUL II ASKS FORGIVENESS FOR THE MISTAKES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND LA'S CARDINAL MAHONEY REPENTS FOR THE FAILINGS OF THE LOS ANGELES ARCHDIOCESE.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR TUESDAY, MARCH 14, 2000.

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WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, ANOTHER CASUALTY OF THE BELMONT LEARNING CENTER CATASTROPHE. THIS TIME, IT'S A SCHOOL WHERE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF IMMIGRANTS HAVE GONE FOR DECADES TO LEARN ENGLISH, CITIZENSHIP AND THE OTHER BASICS THEY NEED TO MAKE THEIR WAY IN A STRANGE NEW LAND.

VAL>> THE PLAN IS TO EVICT ADULT STUDENTS TO MAKE WAY FOR BELMONT HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS. THE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS LOST THEIR SEATS WHEN THE BELMONT CAMPUS WAS ABANDONED AND NOW THE ADULTS WANT THE DISTRICT TO KNOW WHAT WOULD BE LOST. SAUL GONZALEZ HAS THIS REPORT.

SAUL>> THIS WAS THE SCENE AS HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS FROM EVANS COMMUNITY ADULT SCHOOL RALLIED AT THE LA SCHOOL DISTRICT'S DOWNTOWN HEADQUARTERS.

RAMON SANCHEZ>> IT CHANGED MY LIFE. IT GAVE ME A CHANCE.

SAUL>> FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS, EVANS HAS BEEN HOME TO THOUSANDS OF IMMIGRANTS TRYING TO LEARN ENGLISH, STUDYING FOR CITIZENSHIP AND GETTING THEIR HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS. THE ENROLLMENT IS LARGE WITH 20,000 STUDENTS A YEAR. NOW EVANS MAY BE THE LATEST VICTIM OF THE BELMONT LEARNING COMPLEX. THE ADULT SCHOOL IS CLOSE TO BELMONT AND THE DISTRICT HAS PLANS TO TURN EVANS INTO A HIGH SCHOOL FOR SOME OF THOSE STUDENTS. THAT'S WHAT EVANS' STUDENTS WANT TO STOP.

EVANS MAY NOT BE LA'S BEST KNOWN SCHOOL, BUT ACROSS THE GLOBE, WOULD-BE IMMIGRANTS HAVE HEARD ABOUT IT.

LUCINA HAIRAPETIAN>> WHEN I WAS IN ARMENIA, MY AUNT SHE TOLD ME THAT THERE IS A GREAT SCHOOL YOU CAN GET YOUR ENGLISH, YOU CAN LEARN. DEFINITELY, BECAUSE SHE WENT HERE TWENTY YEARS AGO AND SHE LEARNED ALSO IN OTHER COLLEGES. BUT AS SHE TOLD ME, THIS WAS THE BEST LOCATION TO STUDY ENGLISH.

SAUL>> FOR PROTESTING STUDENTS, THE IMPORTANCE OF LEARNING ENGLISH WAS A THEME HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

RAMON SANCHEZ>> AND THE ONLY REASON WHY I'M TALKING TO YOU IN ENGLISH IS BECAUSE EVANS.

SAUL>> RAMON SANCHEZ HAS AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER THAT HE SAYS COUNTS ON HIM FOR HELP WITH HER SCHOOLWORK.

RAMON SANCHEZ>> THE ONLY WAY I'M ABLE TO HELP HER IS COMING TO SCHOOL AND LEARN ENGLISH BECAUSE SHE'S LEARNING IN ENGLISH. SHE'S NOT LEARNING ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

SAUL>> SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER, DAVID TOKOFSKY, WAS HERE IN SUPPORT OF THE PROTESTORS.

DAVID TOKOFSKY>> IF THERE IS A SYMBOL FOR IMMIGRANT LA, IT'S EVANS ADULT SCHOOL. TO GO AT IT TURNED IT INTO A CAUSE CELEBRE. IN FACT, THERE WERE MORE PEOPLE AT TODAY'S PROTEST THAN I HAVE SEEN OVER FIVE YEARS COLLECTIVELY CONCERNED ABOUT THE BELMONT LEARNING COMPLEX.

SAUL>> SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER, VICKI CASTRO, SAYS SHE FIRST HEARD OF THE PROPOSAL IN AN ARTICLE IN THE LA TIMES. SHE AND OTHERS COMPLAINED THAT THE DISTRICT CAME UP WITH EVANS AS A SITE FOR A HIGH SCHOOL WITHOUT EVER CONSULTING THE COMMUNITY.

VICKI CASTRO>> WE ARE HERE TO SAY, "LA UNIFIED, STOP DISRESPECTING THIS COMMUNITY AND ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THIS DISTRICT. IF THERE ARE SOLUTIONS, IT IS THE COMMUNITY'S VOICE. IT'S THE STUDENTS, THE PARENTS AND THE FACULTY OF THESE SCHOOLS THAT SHOULD BE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AT POINT."

SAUL>> LA UNIFIED IS IN A DESPERATE SEARCH FOR SEATS FOR THE OLD BELMONT HIGH STUDENTS. THERE'S ALSO CONCERN FOR THE STUDENTS WHO ARE ON A SCHOOL BUS EARLY EVERY MORNING BECAUSE THERE ARE SIMPLY NO SEATS FOR THEM AT THEIR HOME CAMPUS.

HOWARD MILLER>> LET'S LOOK AT EVANS ADULT SCHOOL. EVANS ADULT SCHOOL IS NEAR CESAR CHAVEZ AND FIGUEROA, PERFECT IN TERMS OF THE BELMONT ATTENDANCE AREA.

SAUL>> THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S CEO, HOWARD MILLER, IS LEADING THE SEARCH. AT THE BOARD'S FACILITY COMMITTEE MEETING THE AFTERNOON OF THE EVANS PROTEST, HE PRESENTS THE SITE AS A CHOICE PROPERTY FOR A HIGH SCHOOL AND ONE THAT COULD BE READY TO OPEN THIS SEPTEMBER.

HOWARD MILLER>> IT CAN TAKE 1,000, AS WE SHALL SEE, OF THE BELMONT STUDENTS. THE ADVANTAGES TO US ARE IT'S DISTRICT-OWNED, WE DON'T HAVE TO ACQUIRE IT.

SAUL>> AND WHAT ABOUT THE FATE OF THE ADULT PROGRAM AT EVANS? MILLER IS EYEING THIS VACANT OFFICE BUILDING ON WILSHIRE, NOT FAR FROM DOWNTOWN. HE SAYS IT'S CLOSER THAN EVANS TO MANY OF THAT SCHOOL'S CURRENT STUDENTS, THAT THE FACILITY IS LARGER AND THAT PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION IS BETTER. EVANS' STUDENTS DON'T AGREE. THEY SAY THE DISTRICT NEEDS TO LOOK NOT AT JUST WHERE THEY LIVE, BUT WHERE THEY WORK. THEY ALSO ARGUE THAT GETTING TO EVANS IS ALREADY EASY, WHETHER BY FOOT FROM NEARBY CHINATOWN, THE BUS OR CAR. MILLER KNOWS THEY AREN'T HAPPY.

HOWARD MILLER>> CHANGE IS DIFFICULT. CHANGE IS ALWAYS DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE. WHAT IS IS COMFORTABLE AND WE'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO LIVE WITH A GREAT MANY CHANGES. BUT I THINK AS WE TALK AND MEET WITH THEM AND SHOW THEM HOW THE ALTERNATIVES WORK AND WHAT THEY ARE THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH HAVING TO MANAGE THE CHANGE. BUT CHANGE IS DIFFICULT FOR EVERYONE, EVEN SOMETIMES WHEN THE CHANGE LEADS TO SOMETHING BETTER.

SAUL>> THE STUDENTS AREN'T IMPRESSED. INSTEAD, THEY TALK ABOUT THE DANGERS OF THE WILSHIRE NEIGHBORHOOD AND SHOW STUDENT-SHOT VIDEO HIGHLIGHTING GANG WRITINGS ON THE WALL, THE BULLET HOLES IN THE WINDOWS AND BARBED WIRE-TOPPED SECURITY FENCING. FOR HOWARD MILLER, THE CHALLENGE IS COMING UP WITH A POSSIBLE 15,000 SEATS IN THE BELMONT AREA WITH THE HOPE THAT, AT LEAST, A THIRD OF THEM WILL WORK OUT. SO FAR, MILLER SHOWS NO SIGN OF BACKING DOWN ON EVANS.

HOWARD MILLER>> WELL, ULTIMATELY THE BOARD WILL DECIDE, BUT OUR STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE NEED FOR HIGH SCHOOL SEATS IS SO STRONG THAT WE HAVE TO USE THAT BUILDING WHICH IS ELIGIBLE TO PUT HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS IN.

SAUL>> SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER, DAVID TOKOFSKY, HOWEVER, THINKS THE STUDENTS MAY HAVE A HOPE OF SAVING THEIR SCHOOL.

DAVID TOKOFSKY>> EVANS IS AT RISK ONLY INSOFAR AS PEOPLE LIKE SUPERVISOR MOLINA AND OTHERS HAVE INSISTED THAT THEY WANT ABSOLUTE SEATS RIGHT NOW. IF THEY WANT ABSOLUTE SEATS RIGHT NOW, THEN EVANS IS AT RISK. LIKE BELMONT LEARNING COMPLEX ITSELF, TWO OR THREE YEARS AWAY FROM ACTUALLY PROVIDING SEATS, IF WE CAN HAVE THAT LEEWAY OF TWO OR THREE YEARS, THEN I THINK EVANS IS AT MUCH LESS OF A RISK.

SAUL>> EVANS' STUDENTS SAY THAT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THE BOARD'S PAST MISTAKES AND THAT THE DISTRICT SHOULDN'T ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL. THEY PLAN TO CARRY THEIR PROTEST TO THE FULL BOARD WHEN IT CONSIDERS THE FUTURE OF EVANS LATER THIS MONTH.

WARREN>> IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE HERE, IT SEEMS TO ME, THAT THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CLOSING EVANS DOWN OR ELIMINATING EVANS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. JUST MOVING IT FROM ONE LOCATION --

SAUL>> MOVING IT TO ANOTHER LOCATION. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

WARREN>> -- TO ANOTHER.

SAUL>> AND ONE THING I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE HERE IS THAT THIS IS A WHOLE OTHER SECTION. THIS IS A WHOLE OTHER UNIVERSE WITHIN OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM THAT A LOT OF US DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT. THAT'S THE ADULT EDUCATION. WHEN YOU GO INTO A LOT OF INNER CITY SCHOOLS AT NIGHT, THEY'RE PACKED WITH STUDENTS AND THE SUPPORTERS OF EVANS AND OTHER SCHOOLS LIKE IT SAY THIS WORKS. THIS IS A PART OF THE LA UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT ACTUALLY DOES WORK AND DOES ITS JOB. DON'T SACRIFICE THIS SCHOOL FOR THESE OTHER GOALS.

WARREN>> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE LOCATIONS THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR THE STUDENTS AT BELMONT?

SAUL>> AMBASSADOR HOTEL IN MID WILSHIRE. FAMOUS AMBASSADOR HOTEL, WHICH IS A SITE OF MUCH LA HISTORY --

WARREN>> THERE'S PLENTY OF CONTROVERSY OVER THAT ONE, THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION --

SAUL>> PRESERVATION PEOPLE WANT TO MAINTAIN IT IN A CERTAIN WAY AND THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE IT CHANGE TOO RADICALLY FOR REASONS OF HISTORY. THE PARKING LOT IN CHAVEZ RAVINE AT THE STADIUM. THEY'RE LOOKING AT THAT. THERE'S A SIXTEEN-ACRE SITE THAT THEY THINK WOULD MAKE A PERFECT SCHOOL. WORTH ABOUT $9 MILLION, I THINK. THINK HOW GREAT THAT WOULD BE FOR STUDENTS WHO COULD WALK RIGHT OVER FROM THE CLASSROOM TO A GAME.

VAL>> BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THE WILSHIRE LOCATION WITH GRAFFITI AND A DANGEROUS -- IF IT'S DANGEROUS FOR ADULTS, IT'S DANGEROUS FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS UNLESS THEY'RE ABLE TO CLEAN --

SAUL>> I PERSONALLY DON'T KNOW HOW ANY LESS SECURE IT IS THAN WHERE THE SCHOOL ALREADY IS. I THINK SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT'S REALLY A RED HERRING ISSUE AND THEY'RE EXAGGERATING THE THREAT OF THAT PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD VERSUS WHERE IT IS NOW. I THINK THEIR MAJOR CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE IT'S CONVENIENT, THEY CAN ACTUALLY WALK THERE. A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THEIR OWN CARS IN THAT PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WILSHIRE WOULD BE A LONG TREK.

WARREN>> ARE THEY ALSO TALKING STILL ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN CENTRAL HEADQUARTERS? IF SUPERINTENDENT CORTINES WANTS TO CUT ALL HIS JOBS, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE AS MUCH NEEDED --

SAUL>> THE DOWNTOWN CENTRAL HEADQUARTERS, THAT'S ANOTHER OPTION. AN AGING FACILITY ITSELF, THEY WOULD MOVE THE ADMINISTRATORS MAYBE TO THE SITE OF THIS $175 MILLION DOLLAR HIGH SCHOOL, THE LEARNING COMPLEX SITE, OR SOMEPLACE ELSE. I THINK THE QUESTION THAT COMES OUT OF ALL OF THIS IS WHY DIDN'T THEY THINK OF THESE OPTIONS BEFORE THEY STARTED THE NEW HIGH SCHOOL THAT'S GOING TO COST US SO MUCH MONEY? BUT WE SHALL SEE.

VAL>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SAUL. AMAZING THAT EVANS GRADUATES 10,000 MORE STUDENTS EACH YEAR THAN UCLA. PHENOMENAL.

SAUL>> THANKS.

VAL>> WE TURN NOW TO TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

REMEMBER THE TOBACCO SETTLEMENT? WELL, CALIFORNIA WILL RECEIVE ABOUT $1 BILLION DOLLARS THIS YEAR IN TOBACCO SETTLEMENT MONEY. NOW, HALF OF THE MONEY GOES TO THE STATE, THE REST IS SPLIT UP BETWEEN COUNTIES AND FOUR CITIES, AND LA'S SHARE ALONE IS $300 MILLION DOLLARS.

WARREN>> THAT'S A LOT OF BUCKS. TOBACCO COMPANIES AGREED TO PAY IT TO SETTLE LAWSUITS OVER HEALTH CARE COSTS RELATED TO SMOKING. BUT EVERYBODY WANTS A PIECE OF THE ACTION AND CRITICS FEAR THAT THE BULK OF THE MONEY MIGHT NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR ANTI-TOBACCO PROGRAMS. HERE WITH MORE IS SERGIO GONZALEZ. HE IS WITH THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY TOBACCO CONTROL ALLIANCE. GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

WARREN>> I GUESS THE MOST CONSPICUOUS PROPOSAL TO DATE HAS BEEN MAYOR RIORDAN'S PROPOSAL THAT THIS MONEY BE USED TO PAY OFF THE LAWSUITS THAT WILL COME FROM THE RAMPART POLICE SCANDAL.

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> EXACTLY. IF THE MEASURE GOES THROUGH, WE WILL LOSE OUT ON ABOUT $200 MILLION DOLLARS.

VAL>> AND THEY'RE ESTIMATING THE RAMPART SCANDAL IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE OVER $100 MILLION DOLLARS, SO IT WOULD BASICALLY EAT UP THE REMAINING PORTION OF THIS TOBACCO SETTLEMENT MONEY. WHY, THOUGH, ARE YOU AGAINST IT? IT SEEMS SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL, IT'S A LEGITIMATE CITY COST. WE NEED TO PUT THE MONEY -- IT NEEDS TO BE PAID FROM SOMEWHERE.

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> WELL, IN AMERICA, ABOUT 3,000 TEENS START SMOKING EVERY DAY. SO WE NEED TO ATTACK THAT AND PREVENT KIDS FROM USING A DEADLY PRODUCT. IF WE WERE TO PASS THE MAYOR'S PROPOSAL, WE WOULD LOSE OUT ON ABOUT $200 MILLION DOLLARS, LEAVING ONLY THE WINNER, THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY. THEY PURPOSELY DID NOT EARMARK THE MONEY SO THAT CITIES, COUNTIES AND STATES COULD USE THE MONEY FOR WHATEVER THEY WANT, THEREFORE DILUTING ANY IMPACT THAT WE WOULD HAVE ON TOBACCO CONTROL.

VAL>> BUT THERE ARE SO MANY LEGITIMATE CAUSES. YOU SAY YOURSELF PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE THIS TOBACCO SETTLEMENT MONEY IS, CAN BE, USED FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. SOME CITIES AND COUNTIES USE IT FOR LIBRARIES, SOME FOR TEXTBOOKS AND SO THERE ARE SO MANY IMPORTANT NEEDS. DOES ANTI-TOBACCO CAMPAIGNS COMPETE? STACK UP TO THOSE OTHER NEEDS? ABUSED CHILDREN? EVERYTHING ELSE?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE PENNED UP AGAINST OTHER SPECIAL NEEDS. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER WHERE THE MONEY CAME FROM. A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD TO DIE TO GET THIS MONEY, SO WE OWE IT TO THOSE FAMILIES, THOSE SURVIVING PEOPLE OF THE FAMILIES WHO DIED OF TOBACCO-RELATED DISEASES, TO PUT THE MONEY BACK INTO WHERE -- TO FIGHT AN INDUSTRY THAT THE PRODUCT THAT YOU USE CAN KILL YOU.

WARREN>> IF, THOUGH, THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE IS TO CUT SERVICES THAT THE CITY PROVIDES TO PEOPLE, ISN'T THERE ALREADY A LOT OF MONEY EARMARKED FOR ANTI-TOBACCO PROGRAMS? DOESN'T THE STATE DO COMMERCIALS? AREN'T THERE OTHER PROGRAMS THAT REALLY PUT QUITE A LOT OF MONEY INTO THOSE KINDS OF EFFORTS?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> WELL, THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HAS PROP 99 AND THAT DOES PUT IN PROGRAMS. BUT PROP 99 HAS BEEN DIMINISHING ALONG THE YEARS WITH TOBACCO CONSUMPTION GOING DOWN. SO WE DO NEED THE SETTLEMENT FUNDS TO CONTINUE TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON YOUTH SMOKING.

WARREN>> WHAT SPECIFICALLY DO YOU WANT TO USE THE MONEY FOR? THE FIRST AMOUNT WOULD BE, WHAT, $25 MILLION OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES IN THE FIRST YEAR. WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO SPEND IT ON?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> PREVENTION PROGRAMS. IF WE CAN PREVENT A KID FROM TAKING UP A DEADLY HABIT, WE WOULD SAVE A LOT MORE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN.

WARREN>> WHAT'S A PREVENTION PROGRAM THAT WORKS?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> A PREVENTION PROGRAM IS GETTING KIDS INVOLVED IN POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLES. GETTING THEM INVOLVED IN SPORTS. GETTING THEM INVOLVED IN HEALTHY THINGS, NOT USING A HABIT THAT KILLS THEM.

WARREN>> AND WHO WOULD ADMINISTER THOSE PROGRAMS? WHO GETS THE MONEY?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> A LOT OF CBOS DO PROGRAMS LIKE THAT AND IT'S VERY EFFECTIVE.

VAL>> A LOT OF WHAT?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> COMMUNITY BASED ORGANIZATIONS DO PROGRAMS LIKE THAT AND VERY EFFECTIVE. IT'S DIRECTLY IMPACTING THE COMMUNITY. GRASS ROOTS EFFORTS REALLY WORK.

WARREN>> SO THEY WOULD THEN COMPETE AMONG ONE ANOTHER TO GET THE MONEY?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> CERTAIN, CERTAINLY.

VAL>> NOW WE SHOULD ALSO EXPLAIN TO OUR VIEWERS THAT ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF THIS MONEY, THIS $300 MILLION DOLLARS, HAS ALREADY BEEN ALLOCATED. IT'S A DONE DEAL. IT'S GOING TO GO TO CURB CUTS, WHICH IS THE CITY COMPLYING WITH HANDICAPPED LAWS THAT ALLOW PEOPLE TO MOVE UP AND DOWN CURBS SMOOTHLY. THAT'S ALREADY DONE. SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS JUST ABOUT A THIRD OF THE MONEY BECAUSE THE CURB CUTS IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED. IN FACT, SOME PEOPLE SAY IT'S A VERY GOOD IDEA BECAUSE WE'RE UP AGAINST FEDERAL PENALTIES AND FINES THAT WILL COST THE CITY A LOT OF MONEY IF WE DON'T MAKE THOSE CURB CUTS. SO $100 MILLION DOLLARS IS ALL THAT'S LEFT AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT RAMPART IS STARING US IN THE FACE. THAT'S A BIG CHUNK OF MONEY TOO.

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> EXACTLY. IT'S A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT THAT WE'LL BE SETTING IF WE DO ACCEPT THE MAYOR'S PROPOSAL. SO ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS A LITTLE FLEXIBILITY NOT TO BOND THE MONEY BECAUSE WE WOULD BE DOING AWAY WITH A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT OFF THE BAT. WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO GO BACK AND TRY TO USE THE $200 MILLION DOLLARS, SO WE'RE ASKING FOR FLEXIBILITY TO HAVE THE OPTION EVERY YEAR TO APPROACH CITY COUNCIL AND HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TO RE-DIRECT THAT MONEY INTO PREVENTION NEEDS.

WARREN>> DO YOU HAVE ANY ALTERNATIVE WAYS IN MIND FOR THAT -- IT'S NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, BUT DO YOU HAVE ALTERNATIVES IN MIND FOR WAYS THAT THE CITY COULD PAY OFF THESE RAMPART POLICE CASE SETTLEMENTS?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> WELL, THE CAO AND THE CLA HAS PROPOSED A COUPLE --

VAL>> AND THAT'S THE -- EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS.

WARREN>> CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER AND CHIEF LEGISLATIVE ANALYST.

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> -- HAVE PROPOSED TWO ALTERNATIVES TO PAY FOR THE POSSIBLE LIABILITIES FROM THE RAMPART SCANDAL. IT ENCOMPASSES SETTING ASIDE CASH ONCE A YEAR BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH THE LIABILITIES ARE GOING TO ADD UP TO. SO THE CAO'S AND THE CLA'S OFFICE HAVE PUT FORWARD TWO ALTERNATIVES AND NOT TO USE TOBACCO SETTLEMENT FUNDS.

WARREN>> THE CITY COUNCIL IS SUPPOSED TO BE TAKING A VOTE ON THIS, I THINK AS SOON AS TOMORROW. HOW DO YOU THINK THE VOTE'S GOING TO BREAK DOWN? HAVE YOU DONE ANY LOBBYING DOWN THERE? WHO DO YOU THINK IS ON YOUR SIDE AND WHO'S NOT?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> WELL, WE ANTICIPATE A REALLY GOOD RESPONSE TOMORROW. WE'VE APPROACHED THE BUDGET AND FINANCE COMMITTEE AND THEY HAVE PUT FORWARD THE RECOMMENDATION TO NOT USE TOBACCO SETTLEMENT FUNDS AND HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY.

WARREN>> RIGHT.

VAL>> SO THE SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE CITY COUNCIL IS SAYING, "DO NOT USE TOBACCO SETTLEMENT MONEY FOR RAMPART"?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> EXACTLY.

VAL>> THAT'S A FAIRLY STRONG RECOMMENDATION. WILL THE CITY COUNCIL FOLLOW SUIT?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> WELL, WE HOPE THEY DO. WITH THE SAME CITY COUNCIL WHO VOTED TO PROTECT KIDS WHEN THEY ENACTED A CITY BILLBOARD ORDINANCE TO PROTECT THE KIDS FROM TOBACCO ADS, HOPEFULLY IT WILL FOLLOW ALONG THE SAME SUIT AND VOTE NO ON THE MAYOR'S PROPOSAL.

WARREN>> IF IT CAME DOWN TO THAT AND THERE HAD TO BE A CUT IN CITY SERVICES IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THE RAMPART DIVISION SETTLEMENTS, WOULD YOU STILL INSIST ON HAVING THE TOBACCO MONEY GO FOR THE PURPOSES THAT YOU RECOMMEND OR WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SEE IT GO TO KEEP THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE OR AT LEAST AS GOOD AS THEY ARE?

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> WELL, WE WOULDN'T LIKE TO SEE 100 PERCENT OF THE FUNDS BE USED FOR CURB CUTS OR PAY FOR THE RAMPART. WE WOULD LIKE TO NEGOTIATE AND HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH CITY OFFICIALS TO DIVERT THE MONEY BACK INTO PREVENTION METHODS.

VAL>> SERGIO GONZALEZ, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

WARREN>> GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

SERGIO GONZALEZ>> THANK YOU.

WARREN>> THIS PAST SUNDAY, POPE JOHN PAUL II MADE AN UNPRECEDENTED REQUEST. HE ASKED THE WORLD TO FORGIVE THE FAILINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OVER THE PAST 2,000 YEARS. HIS APOLOGY AND ITS IMPACT IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA ARE THE TOPICS OF TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

THE POPE REPENTED FOR THE CRUSADES, THE INQUISITION AND FOR SINS AGAINST THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL. VAL ASKED A LEADING LOCAL PRIEST ABOUT THE APOLOGY'S SIGNIFICANCE.

VAL>> FATHER GREGORY, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ARCHDIOCESE OF LOS ANGELES, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.

VAL>> THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE POPE APOLOGIZING FOR TWENTY DECADES OF TRANSGRESSIONS, AND LOCALLY. TELL US WHAT HAPPENED.

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WELL, PRIOR TO THE POPE ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS FOR VARIOUS SINS BY MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ON SUNDAY, THE PREVIOUS MONDAY CARDINAL MAHONEY HAD TO SHOOT HIS ANNUAL LENTEN MESSAGE. IN IT, HE TOOK A RATHER EXTRAORDINARY STEP OF ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL SINS AND OFFENSES, AS WELL AS FOR TIMES WHEN MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH IN LOS ANGELES HAVE OFFENDED OTHERS OR, BY THEIR LACK OF ACTION, HAVE COMMITTED SINS OF OMISSION.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT A VERY BRIEF CLIP FROM CARDINAL MAHONEY IN AN INTERVIEW.

>> YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE BEFORE YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD?

CARDINAL MAHONEY>> OH, OF COURSE. THAT'S TRUE OF ANYTHING IN LIFE. NOT ONLY RELATIONSHIPS, YOUR OWN FAMILIES.

VAL>> SO HE ASKED FORGIVENESS FROM A WIDE VARIETY OF GROUPS AND ONE OF THEM WAS DIVORCED CATHOLICS, WHICH IS A HUGE NUMBER OF CATHOLICS. HE ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS FOR LACK OF SENSITIVITY AND PASTORAL PROGRAMS. EXPAND ON THAT FOR US.

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WELL, IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES UP UNTIL 1976, IF A PERSON GOT DIVORCED AND THEN MARRIED AGAIN WITHOUT GETTING A CHURCH ANNULMENT FIRST, THOSE CATHOLICS WERE EXCOMMUNICATED. SO THERE WERE A NUMBER OF YEARS WHERE PEOPLE FELT THEMSELVES EXCLUDED FROM THE CHURCH IN THE MOST PROFOUND WAY.

VAL>> NOW THE OTHER GROUP THAT HE APOLOGIZED TO, AND FOR, WAS TO THE VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ABUSE. VICTIMS OF CLERGY WHO COMMITTED SEXUAL ABUSES. AND APOLOGIZED TO GAYS AND LESBIANS FOR NOT BEING SUPPORTIVE ENOUGH. DO THESE APOLOGIES MEAN THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE ACTUAL CHANGES AND AMENDMENTS IN CHURCH POLICY?

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THE CARDINAL SAID IN HIS LENTEN MESSAGE WAS THAT IT'S NOT ENOUGH JUST TO SAY I'M SORRY, --

VAL>> EXACTLY.

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> -- BUT THAT THERE HAS TO BE A FIRM PURPOSE OF AMENDMENT. THERE HAS TO BE SOME WAY IN WHICH CHANGE IS GOING TO BE AFFECTED FOR THE OFFENSES. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH REGARD TO THE VICTIMS OF CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE AND THE VICTIMS OF CLERGY MISCONDUCT OF ANY SORT, WE HAVE PROGRAMS AND POLICIES THAT ARE IN PLACE TO DEAL WITH THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES WHEN THEY COME UP AS WELL AS FOR THE ARCHDIOCESE IN SEMINARY AND FOR RELIGIOUS ORDERS AS WELL. A SCREENING PROCESS BY WHICH YOU TRY TO WEED OUT THOSE WHO WOULD HAVE ANY PROCLIVITIES TOWARD SEXUAL ABUSE. IF A MAN'S GOING TO BE A PRIEST, HE HAS TO BE ABLE TO BE A SUCCESSFUL CELIBATE. 

VAL>> THE CARDINAL ALSO ADDRESSED A LOT OF SOCIAL ISSUES. HERE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY ABOUT SEGREGATED HOUSING. HE SAID, "I OFFER MY APOLOGIES FOR THE SIN OF SILENCE (OMISSION) IN THE FACE OF HATRED, POLITICAL POLICY, PREJUDICE, VIOLENCE, INTOLERANCE HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA OVER THE YEARS. FOR EXAMPLE, OUR LOCAL CHURCH COULD HAVE VOICED MORE FULLY OUR OBJECTION TO SEGREGATION IN HOUSING." SO APPARENTLY, IT WAS QUIET WHEN IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN QUIET, THE CHURCH.

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE CASES WHERE THE CARDINAL WAS POINT TO A SIN OF OMISSION WHERE THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE FOREFRONT. WHERE THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEADING BECAUSE IT WAS THE GOSPEL THING TO DO, AND INSTEAD THE CHURCH WAS QUIET, THE CHURCH WAS RETIRING, THE CHURCH WAS --

VAL>> WHY WOULD IT HAVE BEEN QUIET AND RETIRING?

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> I THINK YOU COULD LOOK AT A PREVIOUS PERIOD OF CHURCH HISTORY IN WHICH THERE WAS A CERTAIN RETICENCE TO BE CONTROVERSIAL AND THERE WAS A CERTAIN COMFORT IN THE STATUS QUO, WHEREAS THERE WERE THESE COMPELLING SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES THAT WERE COMING TO A BOIL DURING THE 60'S, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS, THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT AND SO FORTH.

VAL>> CAN WE EXPECT A MORE ACTIVIST CHURCH IN THE FUTURE?

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> OH, I THINK WE'VE SEEN A MORE ACTIVIST CHURCH. FOR EXAMPLE, THE AMOUNT OF HEAT THAT THE CATHOLIC BISHOPS IN CALIFORNIA TOOK IN OPPOSING PROPOSITION 187 WITH REGARD TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, OR THE CONTROVERSY THAT SURROUNDED CARDINAL MAHONEY'S VERY STRIDENT OPPOSITION TO PROPOSITION 209 IN SUPPORT OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. SO, YEAH, I THINK THE CHURCH HAS BEEN VERY MUCH IN THE FOREFRONT NOW WITH REGARD TO SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES.

VAL>> ANOTHER UPCOMING ISSUE IS LABOR AND THE MOMENTUM THAT'S GAINING WITHIN THE ORGANIZED LABOR MOVEMENT. HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY ABOUT THAT. HE SAID, "IN THE PAST, THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE ARCHDIOCESE AND ORGANIZED LABOR HAS BEEN UNEVEN. I EXPRESS MY APOLOGIES TO WORKING PEOPLE THROUGHOUT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IF OUR ATTITUDE AND EFFORTS FAILED TO VALUE WORKING PEOPLE AND THEIR LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO SEEK SELF-ORGANIZATION." HE WAS REFERRING SPECIFICALLY TO AN EFFORT ON THE PART OF CATHOLIC CEMETERY WORKERS TO ORGANIZE, YES?

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WELL, I THINK IN THE STATEMENT HE DIDN'T SPECIFY ANY PARTICULAR RIFT THAT MIGHT EXIST BETWEEN ORGANIZED LABOR AND THE ARCHDIOCESE, BUT CERTAINLY THE TIMES IN REPORTING IT READ THAT INTO IT. BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A VERY CLOSE WORKING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ORGANIZED LABOR BECAUSE CATHOLIC SOCIAL TEACHING HOLDS THAT WORKERS DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO ORGANIZATION AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND THE CHURCH SUPPORTS THAT RIGHT. BUT EVERY SO OFTEN, THE CHURCH AND ORGANIZED LABOR, FOR VARIOUS REASONS, HAVE COME INTO CONFLICT. SO I THINK THE CARDINAL IS SAYING THAT WE LOOK FORWARD TO -- IN FACT, HE SAID THE PURPOSE OF AMENDMENT THAT WE HAVE HERE IS THE CHURCH WORKING FOR MEDIATION AND RECONCILIATION IN LABOR DISPUTES.

VAL>> ONE OF THE CRITICISMS HAS BEEN OF BOTH THE POPE AND -- I'M NOT SURE IF THE CARDINAL HAS EXPERIENCED THIS --CRITICISMS SAYING, "APOLOGY'S TOO LITTLE TOO LATE." THEY AREN'T EXPLICIT ENOUGH, THEY AREN'T INTENSE ENOUGH, SOME OF THIS IS COMING FROM THE JEWISH COMMUNITY. IS WHAT THE POPE DID REALLY AN APOLOGY?

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WELL, THE --

VAL>> OR IS IT A CONFESSION?

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WHAT THE POPE DID AT ST. PETER'S BASILLICA ON SUNDAY WAS A CONFESSION, WAS ASKING GOD'S FORGIVENESS. IT WASN'T ADDRESSED TO THE GROUPS THAT WE SAID WE HAD OFFENDED, BUT RATHER IT WAS ASKING GOD FOR HIS FORGIVENESS FOR THOSE OFFENSES. DURING THE YEARS COMING UP TO THE HOLY YEAR OF 2000, BEGINNING BACK AROUND 1994, THE POPE BEGAN ISSUING APOLOGIES TO THOSE SPECIFIC GROUPS.

VAL>> WHAT GOOD IS ALL OF THIS GOING TO DO? IT'S JUST WORDS. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> WELL, I THINK, FOR ONE, IT MAKES US AS MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH, THOSE OF US WHO ARE CATHOLIC, LOOK AT OURSELVES AND SAY, "OKAY, WHAT DO I NEED TO DO PERSONALLY TO APOLOGIZE TO OTHERS THAT I HAVE OFFENDED AND TO SEEK GOD'S MERCY?" REPENTANCE IS A VERY IMPORTANT THEME OF THIS HOLY YEAR, AND IT ALSO GIVES EXAMPLE TO OTHERS TO SAY MAYBE YOU TOO SHOULD LOOK AT WHERE YOU NEED TO MAKE AMENDS IN YOUR LIFE, WHERE YOU NEED TO SEEK FORGIVENESS. I THINK THE POPE IS LEADING VERY MUCH BY PERSONAL EXAMPLE AND, IF WE REALLY WISH TO MOVE INTO THE THIRD MILLENNIUM AND HAVE PEACE AND HARMONY, THEN IT BEGINS WITH RECONCILIATION, RECONCILIATION BEGINS WITH CONFESSION AND AMENDMENT.

VAL>> FATHER GREGORY OF THE ARCHDIOCESE OF LOS ANGELES, THANKS SO MUCH FOR COMING BY.

FATHER GREGORY COIRO>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. IT'S BEEN A REAL PLEASURE TO BE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

WARREN>> SO CONFESSION AND EVEN APOLOGY FOR THE PAST, BUT NO PROMISES FOR THE FUTURE?

VAL>> THERE'S AN IMPLICATION THAT THERE WILL BE SOME CHANGES. ONE OF THE DISTINCTIONS HE MADE IS THAT WHEN THERE IS A PARTICULAR POLICY IN PLACE TO CHANGE, THEN IT WOULD BE CHANGED. BUT A LOT OF THESE TRANSGRESSIONS OCCURRED NOT BECAUSE IT WAS A PARTICULAR POLICY, BUT BECAUSE CERTAIN THINGS WERE TOLERATED OR IGNORED. SO WHEN THERE'S A PARTICULAR POLICY TO CHANGE, THEY MIGHT, BUT, FOR EXAMPLE, WOMEN ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE PRIESTS. I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT.

WARREN>> STILL, IT'S AN AUTHORITARIAN INSTITUTION, ONE OF THE MOST AUTHORITARIAN IN THE WORLD. IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT.

VAL>> IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY, EXTRAORDINARY STEP. YOU GOT TO GIVE THEM A LOT OF CREDIT.

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW, WE MEET THE MAN SOME SAY IS THE FINANCIAL PATRON SAINT OF THE WORKING CLASS TOWN OF HAWAIIAN GARDENS. BUT OTHERS ARE NOT SO CHARITABLE.

>> HE'S BEEN DESCRIBED IN MANY WAYS. HE'S BEEN DESCRIBED AS THE PATRON, THE MAN WHO GIVES FAVORS AND, OF COURSE, EXACTS A HIGH PRICE FOR THOSE FAVORS.

WARREN>> THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, AFTER REFORMERS WON IRAN'S RECENT ELECTIONS, THEY WERE TARGETED FOR ASSASSINATION. WHAT WILL FUNDAMENTALISTS DO NEXT? AND CAN DEMOCRACY SURVIVE IN A RELIGIOUS STATE? THAT'S TOMORROW.

KCRW 89.9 FM, WHICH WAY LA
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VAL>> HAVE A GREAT EVENING. WE'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW. TAKE CARE.

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