03/16/00

LC000316

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> IT WAS NOT A PRETTY SIGHT. TWO MAJOR LOCAL LEADERS BICKERING AND MAKING A LOT OF CITIZENS FEEL LESS THAN CONFIDENT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IT'S BECOME A CITY-WIDE SOAP OPERA SPELLED OUT IN BANNER HEADLINES. PARKS AND GARCETTI AS THE BATTLING CHILDREN AND THE MAYOR AS THE ANGRY FATHER.

LAURIE LEVENSON>> WHAT HAPPENED NOW WITH ALL OF THIS FIGHTING IS TO BRING IT RIGHT BACK IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC AND TO MAKE THE PUBLIC WONDER CAN THEY EVEN GET THE JOB DONE?

VAL>> IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, POLICE AND PROSECUTORS SHARE A COMMON GOAL, SO WHY HAS THEIR RELATIONSHIP BECOME SO STORMY?

WARREN>> PATT MORRISON LOOKS ASKANCE AT THE CONDUCT OF THESE TWO LEADERS OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

PATT>> WATCH OUT, KIDS. TWO BIG BOYS HAVE INVADED YOUR SANDBOX. THE TOP COP VERSUS THE PRIMO DA, ON TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> AND A GLIMPSE INSIDE THE SECRET WORLD OF CHINA'S FORBIDDEN CITY WHERE SOME OF THE WORLD'S GREATEST TREASURES HAVE BEEN HIDDEN FROM THE WORLD FOR CENTURIES.

WARREN>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR THURSDAY, MARCH 16, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

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WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, A QUESTION. WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE? AN OPEN FEUD HAS BROKEN OUT BETWEEN LA'S POLICE CHIEF AND THE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, TWO MEN WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LEADING INVESTIGATIONS INTO CORRUPTION AT THE LAPD'S RAMPART DIVISION.

VAL>> THE WAR OF WORDS BETWEEN BERNARD PARKS AND GIL GARCETTI HAS MADE HEADLINES IN LOCAL PAPERS AND PROMPTED STORIES ON TV NEWSCASTS. THE MAYOR CALLED IT A CHILDISH SPAT WITH SERIOUS IMPLICATIONS AND, AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, IT THREATENS TO OVERSHADOW THE INVESTIGATION ITSELF.

PHILIP>> IN A CITY AS BIG AS LOS ANGELES, THERE AREN'T MANY THINGS THAT EVERYBODY CAN SHARE, BUT THE NASTY LITTLE FEUD BETWEEN THE POLICE CHIEF AND DISTRICT ATTORNEY IS ONE OF THEM. IT'S BECOME A CITY-WIDE SOAP OPERA SPELLED OUT IN BANNER HEADLINES. PARKS AND GARCETTI AS THE BATTLING CHILDREN AND THE MAYOR AS THE ANGRY FATHER. TODAY IN NEIGHBORHOODS RICH AND POOR, PEOPLE WERE ASKING IF THE CITY'S TWO TOP LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS HAVE LOST IT.

TARYN JOHNSON>> IT HURTS ANYONE'S CREDIBILITY WHEN THEY HOLD SUCH A HIGH POSITION THAT WE ALL RESPECT AND FOR THEM TO BE BICKERING LIKE THIS. THEY SHOULD ACT LIKE TWO ADULTS AND WORK IT OUT.

GIL GARCETTI>> THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON RIGHT NOW WHO IS IMPEDING OUR ABILITY TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT AND THAT'S THE CHIEF OF POLICE OF THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES. I CAN'T ACCEPT THAT. I DON'T TOLERATE IT.

PHILIP>> THE RAMPART SHOWDOWN BEGAN AFTER A SERIES OF PHONE CALLS AND LETTERS BETWEEN GARCETTI AND PARKS. GARCETTI ACCUSED THE CHIEF OF TRYING TO SHUT THE DA'S OFFICE OUT OF THE INVESTIGATION BY REFUSING TO COOPERATE WITH GARCETTI'S PROSECUTORS. PARKS SAID IT WAS A LIE AND BLASTED GARCETTI FOR DRAGGING HIS FEET WITH THE RAMPART PROBE.

BERNARD PARKS>> WE ARE NOT PLEASED WITH THE SLOWNESS OF WHAT THE DA HAS DONE. WE CERTAINLY HAVE SOME LACK OF CONFIDENCE IN THEIR ABILITY TO DEAL WITH THIS CASE, BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE NOT LET THAT STOP US FROM COOPERATING AS IT RELATES TO THIS ISSUE.

PHILIP>> IT IS A LATEST EMBARRASSING EPISODE IN WHAT MAY BE THE WORST SCANDAL EVER TO HIT THE LAPD. ATTEMPTED MURDER, PLANTED EVIDENCE, FALSE POLICE TESTIMONY, THEY'RE ALL PART OF THE RAMPART STORY. AND NOW SO IS THIS. THE APPARENT BREAKDOWN BETWEEN LA'S TOP COP AND THE TOP PROSECUTOR IN CHARGE OF PUNISHING THE ONES WHO CAUSED THIS MESS.

ZEV YAROSLAVSKY>> AS I SAY, I THINK IT'S A SPECTACLE WHICH HAS PEOPLE'S MOUTHS HANGING OPEN. THE AVERAGE CITIZENS ARE WONDERING HOW COULD THESE TWO CAPABLE PEOPLE END UP IN THIS KIND OF A SPAT. MORE THAN A SPAT NOW. DUELING PRESS CONFERENCES THAT MAKE THIS CITY AND THIS COUNTY LOOK HORRIBLE.

PHILIP>> LA COUNTY SUPERVISOR, ZEV YAROSLAVSKY, SAYS IT'S HARD TO SAY WHO'S RIGHT IN THIS FIGHT BECAUSE THE FACT THAT IT'S HAPPENING AT ALL IS SO WRONG. AND IT RAISES QUESTIONS, HE SAYS, OF WHETHER SOMEBODY ELSE SHOULD TAKE OVER THE RAMPART INVESTIGATION. SOMEBODY WITH NO TIES TO EITHER PARKS OR GARCETTI.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS BEING AN INVITATION FOR A TAKEOVER. NOW THAT IT'S GOTTEN TO THIS POINT, IS THAT MAYBE THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE THIS THING?

ZEV YAROSLAVSKY>> WELL, IT MAY BE. I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYBODY HAS A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN THIS. THE PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED. I'M CONFUSED. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE BOTH OF THESE OFFICIALS ARE COMING FROM. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S EATING AT THE CHIEF AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S EATING AT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY. IF I'M CONFUSED, AND IF PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO ARE INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT PROCESSES AND MAKE IT OUR BUSINESS TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS, I CAN IMAGINE HOW THE GENERAL PUBLIC FEELS. WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE IS NOT THE REPUTATION OF ONE POLITICIAN OR ONE CIVIL SERVANT. WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE IS THE CREDIBILITY OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. LET'S NOT FORGET WHY WE'RE HERE.

PHILIP>> AS BIG A SCANDAL AS RAMPART IS, IT HAD BEGUN TO OCCUPY LESS OF THE PUBLIC'S ATTENTION. AFTER THE INITIAL SHOCK, MANY PEOPLE SETTLED INTO THE FACT THAT AN INVESTIGATION WAS UNDERWAY AND THAT THE DIRTY COP WAS TALKING. BUT THERE ARE STILL NO INDICTMENTS AND NOW FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS HAVE BEGUN LOOKING OVER THE DA'S SHOULDER, EVEN TO THE POINT OF EXAMINING IF GARCETTI'S OFFICE HAD REASON TO SUSPECT WRONGDOING IN THE RAMPART DIVISION LONG BEFORE THE SCANDAL BROKE.

LAURIE LEVENSON>> I THINK WHAT THE FEDS CAN ACCOMPLISH THAT THE DA'S CAN'T IS THAT THE FEDS CAN LOOK AT EVERYTHING. THEY CAN LOOK AT WHERE THE PROBLEMS WERE IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. THEY CAN LOOK AT WHERE THE PROBLEMS WERE IN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. THEY CAN LOOK AT WHERE THE PROBLEMS WERE IN THE COURTS. SOMETHING THAT I DON'T THINK THOSE OTHER AGENCIES LIKE THE DA'S CAN.

PHILIP>> LOYOLA LAW PROFESSOR, LAURIE LEVENSON, SAYS IT'S IRONIC THAT PARKS AND GARCETTI HAVE PUT RAMPART BACK ON PAGE ONE BY ESSENTIALLY DESTROYING THEIR OWN FUTURE CREDIBILITY AS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO RESTORE HONOR TO THE LAPD.

LAURIE LEVENSON>> WHAT HAPPENED NOW WITH ALL OF THIS FIGHTING IS TO BRING IT RIGHT BACK IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC AND TO MAKE THE PUBLIC WONDER CAN THEY EVEN GET THE JOB DONE? WILL WE HAVE THE TYPE OF INVESTIGATION THAT WE TRUST?

NAN CARGILE>> WELL, GARCETTI'S HURT HIMSELF TOO IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER CASES. HE'S NEVER BEEN ABLE TO TRY ANY OF HIS CASES AND WIN, ANY OF THE BIG ONES, SO, I DON'T KNOW, I'M KIND OF UPSET AT BOTH OF THEM.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> THIS ISN'T A CHILDREN'S GAME. THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAVE BEEN ACTING LIKE CHILDREN. THEY'VE GOT TO START ACTING LIKE ADULTS AND PUT THE CITY FIRST.

PHILIP>> ZEV YAROSLAVSKY SAYS THE MAYOR KNOWS BETTER THAN ANYBODY THAT THE FEUD BETWEEN PARKS AND GARCETTI DIDN'T START JUST YESTERDAY.

ZEV YAROSLAVSKY>> I THINK THE MAYOR SAYS HE HAS MADE EFFORTS TO BRING THE TWO OF THEM TOGETHER, BUT I KNOW WHEN THE MAYOR WANTS TO GET SOMETHING DONE, HE CAN GET IT DONE. HE HAS INCREDIBLE POWERS OF PERSUASION, BOTH PERSONALLY AND INSTITUTIONALLY. FOR SOME REASON, THAT HASN'T WORKED OUT HERE. I THINK HE'S GOT TO BE AN HONEST BROKER BETWEEN THE TWO. IF HE WANTS TO BE A BROKER AT ALL, HE HAS TO BE AN HONEST BROKER. IT MEANS HE'S GOT TO BE A LITTLE BIT TOUGH ON HIS FRIEND, THE CHIEF, AND HE'S GOT TO BE A LITTLE BIT TOUGH ON HIS FRIEND, THE DA.

WARREN>> OKAY. ON THIS ISSUE OF CREDIBILITY AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS CIVILIAN CONTROL OF THIS DEPARTMENT, THERE IS YET ANOTHER ENTITY INVOLVED AND THAT IS THE POLICE COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR SUPPOSEDLY TO OVERSEE WHAT IT IS THAT THE DEPARTMENT IS DOING. NOW TOMORROW AT 9:00, THEY'RE HAVING A MEETING AND THE CHIEF SAYS HE'S GOING TO GO IN THERE AND RESOLVE THIS THING ONCE AND FOR ALL.

PHILIP>> YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALKED TO SOME OF THE CRITICS TODAY, SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST AGHAST AT WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING BETWEEN PARKS AND GARCETTI, THEIR NEXT QUESTION IS WHERE IN THE WORLD HAS THE POLICE COMMISSION BEEN IN THIS WHOLE THING?

VAL>> THE NEXT QUESTION, OF COURSE, IS ALL OF THIS DELAYING THE ACTUAL INVESTIGATION INTO THE SCANDAL, WHICH IS WHAT THE PEOPLE REALLY WANT SETTLED? IS THIS DISTRACTING? IS IT DELAYING, PROLONGING, WHAT'S GOING ON?

PHILIP>> WELL, YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT IT'S DISTRACTING. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S DELAYING. THE FACT THAT THESE TWO MEN SPENT THE BETTER PART OF YESTERDAY AT LEAST SNIPING AT EACH OTHER. YOU KNOW, THIS GOES BACK SEVERAL DAYS WHEN GARCETTI GOT THE IMPRESSION FROM TALKING TO THE CHIEF THAT HE WAS BEING CUT OUT. THAT THE CHIEF WAS BASICALLY SAYING TO HIM THAT THE FEDS ARE THE LEAD AGENCY IN MY MIND AND I'M GOING TO COOPERATE WITH THEM. THE CHIEF SAYS HE NEVER SAID THIS.

WARREN>> EACH OF THEM SAYS THE OTHER IS DELAYING IT. THE CHIEF SAYS GARCETTI ISN'T PROSECUTING PEOPLE FAST ENOUGH. GARCETTI SAYS THAT THE CHIEF NOW IS IMPEDING THE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE HE WON'T COOPERATE WITH THE DA.

PHILIP>> AND GARCETTI'S IN THE POSITION, THOUGH. HE'S SAYING, HEY, I CAN'T HAND DOWN INDICTMENTS UNLESS I HAVE THE CASE DOWN COLD AND WE DON'T PLAN TO DO THAT, AND IF WE DID SOMETHING RISKY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT REVERSED ANYWAY. SO THAT'S THE SITUATION FROM HIS STANDPOINT. FROM THE MAYOR'S STANDPOINT, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A SITUATION WHERE HE'S JUST AS FRUSTRATED WITH GARCETTI AS THE CHIEF IS, EVEN THOUGH HE'S TRYING TO SERVE AS THIS MEDIATOR, THIS PEACEMAKER HERE. THE FACT IS, HE MAY BE FRUSTRATED, BUT HE'S JUST AS MAD AT GARCETTI AS THE CHIEF HAS BEEN FROM DAY ONE ON THIS WHOLE THING. HE WANTS INDICTMENTS.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO EXPLORE MORE OF THIS IN JUST A MOMENT. THANK YOU, PHILIP.

UP NEXT, TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

WELL, THE CURRENT FEUD BETWEEN THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE DA MAY SOUND FAMILIAR TO SOME VIEWERS. THERE WAS SIMILAR FRICTION IN THE EARLY 90'S WHEN CHIEF DARRYL GATES AND THEN DA IRA REINER HELD THOSE OFFICES.

WARREN>> THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE AT THAT POINT WHO CHIDED BOTH GATES AND REINER FOR NOT GETTING ALONG WAS MAYOR TOM BRADLEY. JOINING US NOW WITH MORE IS POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN, FROM CAL STATE FULLERTON, AUTHOR OF THE BOOK "POLITICS IN BLACK AND WHITE" WHICH IS ABOUT THE BRADLEY COALITION AND THE WAY HE TOOK POWER.

ALL RIGHT, PROFESSOR, GIVE US FIRST A LITTLE CIVICS LESSON BEFORE WE GO BACK INTO TIME TO MR. REINER AND CHIEF GATES AND THE MAYOR. THE DA'S A COUNTY OFFICIAL, THE POLICE CHIEF IS A CITY OFFICIAL, WHY DO THEY GET INTO THESE DISPUTES?

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> THESE DISPUTES GO MUCH BROADER THAN THE DISPUTE BETWEEN A DA AND A POLICE CHIEF. IT'S ABOUT WHO'S IN CHARGE? WHO RUNS LAW ENFORCEMENT? WHO RUNS THE GOVERNMENT IN LOS ANGELES? LOS ANGELES IS ONE OF THE FEW CITIES WHERE WHO RUNS THE GOVERNMENT IS ACTUALLY AT STAKE. THE QUESTION HAS OFTEN BEEN, DOES THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY RUN THE GOVERNMENT OF LOS ANGELES, NOT JUST ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY? THIS GOES BACK TO THE WHOLE SEVENTY-FIVE YEARS OF THE OLD CHARTER WHICH IS ABOUT TO BE SUPERSEDED BY A NEW CHARTER.

INVESTIGATIONS COME AND GO, BUT THIS QUESTION OF WHO GOVERNS THE CITY AND, MOST OF ALL, WHO GOVERNS THE DEPARTMENT HAS NEVER BEEN SUCCESSFULLY RESOLVED IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES. INVARIABLY, WE PAY A PRICE VERY FEW YEARS AND THE ELECTED OFFICIALS ALL HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT THIS TIME. BUT THE QUESTION IS, AGAIN, IT'S THE POLICE COMMISSION THAT THE CHARTER AUTHORIZES AND THAT'S THE ONLY VOICE THAT HASN'T BEEN HEARD FROM, ALTHOUGH IT WILL BE HEARD FROM IN THIS PROCESS. THAT'S WHERE THE GOVERNING IS.

VAL>> BUT BETWEEN THE DA AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THERE SEEMS TO BE NO QUESTION THAT POLICE CHIEF BERNARD PARKS OVERSTEPPED HIS BOUNDS, GRABBED TOO MUCH POWER, BECAUSE THE DA, IN FACT, SHOULD AND DOES HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET ALL THOSE DOCUMENTS. NO?

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> OH, THERE'S NO QUESTION AT ALL.

VAL>> NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT?

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> THERE'S NO QUESTION. THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS SPOKEN ON THIS. THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS SPOKEN ON THIS. I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT, EXCEPT THE REAL QUESTION IS HOW DID HE GET TO DO THAT WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE POLICE COMMISSION? HE'S AN APPOINTED OFFICIAL OF THE GOVERNMENT.

VAL>> BUT, OF COURSE, HE WOULD SAY HE DIDN'T, IN FACT, BAR THE DA FROM --

WARREN>> HE CLAIMS HE DIDN'T BAR THE -- HE DIDN'T SAY THE DA WOULDN'T BE INVOLVED AND THAT HE DIDN'T CONSEQUENTLY HAVE TO ASK THE POLICE COMMISSION ANYTHING.

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> BUT IT'S SPLITTING HAIRS IN THAT, ONCE AGAIN, FOR AN APPOINTED OFFICIAL TO ACT IN A MANNER LIKE THIS IS SO FAR OUT ON A LIMB WITHOUT THE AUTHORIZATION OF, IN EFFECT, THE GOVERNING BODY THAT HIRES AND FIRES THAT PERSON, IS AN INDICATION OF A LONGSTANDING PROBLEM IN LOS ANGELES.

WARREN>> WE'RE GOING TO SEE WHAT THEY WILL DO TOMORROW, THE POLICE COMMISSION. AGAIN, 9:00 THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO MEET AND TALK TO THE CHIEF. WHAT ABOUT THIS HISTORICAL DISPUTE?

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> THE HISTORICAL DISPUTE BETWEEN THE DA AND THE CHIEF --

WARREN>> REINER, GATES, BRADLEY.

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> OH, I THINK IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE SEVERITY OF THE CRISIS EACH TIME. WHEN NOBODY WANTS TO BE CAUGHT HOLDING THE BAG --

VAL>> TELL US THE STORY. WHAT HAPPENED?

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> OH, THIS HAD TO DO BACK THEN, OF COURSE, WITH THE RODNEY KING CASE, WHICH WAS AT LEAST AS BIG A CASE AS THIS ISSUE RIGHT NOW. THE QUESTION IS, HOW WAS THE INVESTIGATION BEING DONE? HOW WERE THE OFFICERS BEING TREATED? IRONICALLY, IT'S PROBABLY -- THE ROLES ARE PROBABLY A BIT REVERSED. GATES, UNLIKE CHIEF PARKS, WAS NOT MUCH OF A DISCIPLINARIAN WITH HIS DEPARTMENT AND WAS DEFENDING HIS OFFICERS AT ALL COSTS. THERE'S A BIT OF A CHANGE OF ROLES HERE IN THAT CHIEF PARKS IS DEMANDING IMMEDIATE INDICTMENTS AND GET THESE PEOPLE BEHIND BARS. WHEREAS WITH CHIEF GATES, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY AT LEAST OUR PROBLEMS HAVE IMPROVED A BIT IN TERMS OF THE QUALITY. AT LEAST THE CHIEF IS SOMEONE -- ONE OF HIS STRENGTHS IS THAT HE'S A VERY TOUGH DISCIPLINARIAN.

WARREN>> YOU WERE VERY INVOLVED IN CHARTER REFORM. NOW WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING THIS IS NOT GOING TO WORK, THE POLICE COMMISSION SIMPLY ISN'T SUFFICIENTLY INDEPENDENT, IT'S IN FACT A MANAGER OF THE DEPARTMENT, IT ISN'T DETACHED AND SEPARATE, AND THERE ARE ALL THESE CALLS FOR AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION. DID THE CHARTER REFORM FAIL TO DO ITS JOB?

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> WELL, I THINK THE CHARTER REFORM AND THE CHRISTOPHER COMMISSION TOOK THE SAME RISK TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE INSTITUTION IN THIS GOVERNMENT THAT CAN BRING THE DEPARTMENT TO HEEL AND THAT'S THE POLICE COMMISSION. BUT NOBODY IN THIS CITY BELIEVES THAT IT EVER HAS. THE BELIEF, AFTER YEARS OF RESEARCH AND ALSO YEARS OF WORK WITH THE CHRISTOPHER COMMISSION IS THAT THIS IS THE ONLY HOPE. TO STRENGTHEN THAT COMMISSION, PUT SOME BACKBONE INTO IT, BACK THEM UP WHEN THEY TAKE A CHANCE, DON'T SECOND-GUESS THEM WHEN THEY TAKE A CHANCE. IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, HIDDEN AWAY IN ALL OF THIS, THEY HAVE ACTUALLY UNDERTAKEN THE MOST PROMISING INVESTIGATION OF --

WARREN>> THEY'VE GOT A MILLION DOLLARS FROM THE CITY COUNCIL, THEY'VE HIRED A LOT OF PEOPLE TO LOOK INTO THIS. THEY HAVEN'T MADE A LOT OF PUBLIC STATEMENTS. MAYBE THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> THEY HAVEN'T, AND THAT'S APPROPRIATE. THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM THE INVESTIGATION. THIS IS RELATED TO IT, BUT THE STAFF REPORT THAT WAS PUT OUT CALLS FOR A LOOK AT THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE OF THE POLICE COMMISSION. WHETHER IT'S STRONG ENOUGH, WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT CHANGES. THIS IS A QUIET LITTLE STRAW IN THE WIND THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

WARREN>> SO MUCH IS ABOUT PERCEPTION, THOUGH. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT MAYBE THE CHARTER SHOULD SAY THAT THE POLICE COMMISSION OUGHT TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, TRAINING TO DEAL WITH PUBLIC RELATIONS.

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> IT'S MORE THAN THAT. WHAT THE POLICE COMMISSION LACKS IS INDEPENDENCE AND AUTHORITY. IT HAS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF POWER, BUT IS PERCEIVED AS THE MAYOR'S COMMISSION AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. WHICHEVER MAYOR IS IN POWER, IT RISES AND FALLS WITH THAT MAYOR AND THAT CREATES, SO FAR NOT QUITE A FATAL PROBLEM, BUT IF IT DOESN'T GAIN THAT INDEPENDENCE AND STATURE SOON, THEN THERE WILL BE TALK OF OTHER ALTERNATIVES.

VAL>> WE JUST HAVE A FEW MOMENTS LEFT, SO I JUST WANT TO GET THIS STRAIGHT. SO THE POLICE COMMISSION ORGANIZATIONALLY BY THE CITY CHARTER DOES HAVE POWER, BUT YOU'RE SAYING THE LACK OF BACKBONE COMES FROM POLITICAL PERSONALITIES?

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> NO. I WOULD SAY IT'S INHERENT IN THE WAY IT'S STRUCTURED. IT HAS EVERYTHING THAT IT NEEDS EXCEPT INDEPENDENCE. IT HAS POWER -- IF YOU READ THE CHARTER, THE CHIEF WORKS FOR THE POLICE COMMISSION. NOT FOR THE MAYOR, NOT FOR THE CITY COUNCIL, BUT FOR THE POLICE COMMISSION.

WARREN>> WE'LL ALL BE WATCHING TOMORROW. 9:00 IN THE MORNING, THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO MEET. WE'LL SEE WHAT THEY DO. RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

VAL>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WARREN>> WE NOW CONTINUE ON A THEME. PATT MORRISON WEIGHS IN ON THIS HIGHLY-PLACED FAMILY FEUD IN TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT>> NO TRAGEDY IS WITHOUT AN ELEMENT OF FARCE, NOT EVEN THE RAMPART SCANDAL. FIRST, THERE WERE THE ABSURDITIES OF SUCH ALLEGED INCIDENTS AS COPS TRYING TO COVER UP A BAD SHOOTING BY ONE OF THEIR OWN BY PLANTING MIRRORS AND SPLATTERING CATSUP AROUND THE CRIME SCENE. GUYS, THIS IS LA. IF YOU'RE GOING TO FAKE SOMETHING, AT LEAST TRY TO MATCH THE HIGH STANDARDS OF HOLLYWOOD, WHICH HAS BEEN FOOLING ALL OF US FOR YEARS.

NOW THE RAMPART ABSURDITIES ARE BEING COMPOUNDED BY THE BATTLE BY PRESS CONFERENCE BETWEEN TWO AUGUST FIGURES, THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY. THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS CHARACTERIZED THE CHIEF OF POLICE AS AN OUT-OF-CONTROL OBSTRUCTIONIST WHO REFUSES TO COOPERATE IN LOCAL INVESTIGATIONS. AND THE CHIEF HAS CHARACTERIZED THE UP-FOR-REELECTION DA AS A GRANDSTANDING OPPORTUNIST WHO IS BEING LAGGARDLY IN BRINGING RAMPART MISCREANTS TO JUSTICE. THE CHIEF SAYS HE NEVER DENIED ANYBODY ANYTHING. THE LEGAL EXPERTS SAY HE'D BETTER NOT.

NOW IN POLITE AND POLITICALLY WELL-BEHAVED LOS ANGELES, A WRANGLE OF THIS NATURE AMOUNTS TO NUCLEAR ESCALATION. MAYOR RIORDAN, IN AN UNCHARACTERISTICALLY SEVERE CRITICISM OF HIS CHOICE FOR POLICE CHIEF, CRACKED SOME HEADS FIGURATIVELY WHEN HE SAID, "THIS ISN'T A CHILDREN'S GAME. THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAVE BEEN ACTING LIKE CHILDREN. THEY'VE GOT TO START ACTING LIKE ADULTS AND PUT THE CITY FIRST." IN SHORT, THESE TWO HAVE DONE EVERYTHING BUT POINT AND HOLLER, "LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE". BOYS, BOYS, PLEASE, NO MORE SANDBOX POLITICS.

NOW TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY GIL GARCETTI, THERE REMAINS THIS QUESTION: WHY WAS A GRAND JURY NOT CONSTITUTED IN THIS MATTER BEFORE? AND TO POLICE CHIEF BERNARD PARKS, THIS QUERY: WHY IS IT THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS TRUSTWORTHY ENOUGH TO PROSECUTE YOUR ARRESTEES, BUT NOT TRUSTWORTHY ENOUGH TO PROSECUTE YOUR OFFICERS? BUT LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE. WITH THE ENTHRALLING SPECTACLE OF THESE TWO POWERHOUSE PLAYERS HEAD-BUTTING ON THE CITY'S FIFTY-YARD LINE, WHO NEEDS PRO FOOTBALL?

VAL>> THANK YOU, PATT.

WE TAKE YOU NOW TO A VERY DIFFERENT TIME AND PLACE. CHINA, 300 YEARS AGO. IT TOOK SEVEN YEARS OF NEGOTIATIONS AND NUMEROUS TRIPS TO CHINA, BUT NOW AN ORANGE COUNTY MUSEUM IS PRESENTING AN UNPRECEDENTED EXHIBIT. IT IS A SELECTION OF TREASURES FROM CHINA'S FORBIDDEN CITY AND IT'S AT THE BOWERS MUSEUM IN SANTA ANA.

WARREN>> THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY OPPORTUNITY. THE BOWERS EXHIBIT INCLUDES OVER 300 RARE OBJECTS, MANY OF THEM NEVER SEEN BEFORE BY THE PUBLIC, EITHER INSIDE OR OUTSIDE OF CHINA. WE GET A GLIMPSE IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

THE EXHIBIT INCLUDES RARE PAINTINGS, ORNATE TAPESTRIES AND OBJECTS CRAFTED FROM GOLD AND PRECIOUS GEMS, ALL OF WHICH COME FROM INSIDE THE IMPERIAL PALACE, THE FORBIDDEN CITY. THEY WERE PRODUCED DURING THE QING DYNASTY, WHICH STRETCHED FROM 1644 TO 1911 AND WHICH IS CONSIDERED THE PINNACLE OF CHINESE ARTISTIC ACHIEVEMENT.

VAL>> JOINING US NOW WITH MORE ARE THE TWO PEOPLE THAT MADE THIS EXHIBIT POSSIBLE AND BROUGHT IT ALL THE WAY OVER TO ORANGE COUNTY, THE MUSEUM'S PRESIDENT, PETER KELLER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND ANN CHI. SHE'S ON THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE BOWERS MUSEUM. THANK YOU SO MUCH, BOTH OF YOU, FOR JOINING US.

PETER KELLER>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

VAL>> FIRST, REMIND PEOPLE WHAT WAS THE FORBIDDEN CITY?

PETER KELLER>> THE FORBIDDEN CITY IS ACTUALLY THE LARGEST PALACE COMPLEX IN THE WORLD. IT'S 999 BUILDINGS. TAKES UP ALMOST 250 ACRES.

VAL>> 900 OR 9,000?

PETER KELLER>> 9,999 ROOM, 999 BUILDINGS.

VAL>> AH, BECAUSE NINE WAS SUCH A LUCKY NUMBER.

PETER KELLER>> BIG NUMBER. EVEN IN THE FRONT GATES OF THE FORBIDDEN CITY, YOU HAVE THESE BIG GOLD KNOBS AND IT'S ALWAYS NINE BY NINE, 81 KNOBS.

WARREN>> AND VASTLY IMPORTANT TO THE WAY THAT CHINA PERCEIVES ITSELF.

PETER KELLER>> EXACTLY.

VAL>> BUT THE FORBIDDEN CITY WAS WHERE THE DYNASTY AND THE EMPEROR WAS KEPT INSIDE AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC. NOBODY COULD GO IN AND NOBODY COULD GO OUT, BUT YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BRING OUT SOME CHOICE, CHOICE PIECES OF ART. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THEM AND --

PETER KELLER>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> -- MAYBE YOU CAN TELL US ABOUT IT.

PETER KELLER>> LOVE TO.

VAL>> WHAT ARE WE SEEING HERE?

PETER KELLER>> WELL, THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL PORTRAIT OF EMPEROR QIAN LONG, ONE OF THE FIRST EMPERORS IN THE QING DYNASTY, ON A HORSE IN HIS FULL ARMOR WITH BEAUTIFUL QUIVER. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, IT WAS DONE BY AN ITALIAN ARTIST. WE TRIED TO RE-CREATE ALL THE VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE EMPEROR'S LIFE.

THIS IS THE THRONE ROOM, COMPLETE WITH THE HUGE GILDED BELLS. WE ALSO HAVE SOME OTHER ONES IN THE EXHIBIT THAT ARE MADE OUT OF JADE.

THIS IS EMPEROR PU YI, THE LAST EMPEROR'S, BICYCLE WHICH WAS PORTRAYED IN THE FILM TRYING TO ESCAPE --

WARREN>> NOT AN ANCIENT OBJECT.

PETER KELLER>> NOT AN ANCIENT OBJECT. TURN OF THE CENTURY BRITISH BICYCLE. THIS IS HIS BEDROOM, COMPLETE. IF YOU LOOK IN THE CORNER, EVEN HIS TOILET.

THIS IS WHAT THE EMPEROR'S BIRTHDAY PRESENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN PRESENTED IN. A BEAUTIFUL CARVED LACQUER BOX.

WARREN>> AGAIN, YOU HAVE RE-CREATED THESE ROOMS IN ORANGE COUNTY AT THE BOWERS MUSEUM WHICH HAVE NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE, EVEN BY MANY CHINESE.

PETER KELLER>> THAT'S CORRECT. IN FACT, IF YOU GO TO THE FORBIDDEN CITY, YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF BUILDINGS AND YOU'LL PEER IN SOME WINDOWS, BUT THE GREAT TREASURES, PARTICULARLY THE DELICATE ONES SUCH AS THE COURT ROBES AND THE PAINTINGS, AREN'T SEEN BY THE PUBLIC.

VAL>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME MORE OF WHAT PEOPLE WILL SEE IF THEY COME TO THE BOWERS.

PETER KELLER>> THESE ARE SOME OF THE ROBES I WAS TALKING ABOUT. THE ONE COMING UP RIGHT NOW IS THE WEDDING ROBE WITH BOTH THE PHOENIX AND THE DRAGON, THE PHOENIX REPRESENTING THE EMPRESS, THE DRAGON THE EMPEROR. BEAUTIFUL EMBROIDERIES ALL RELATING TO THE QING DYNASTY.

THESE ARE SOME OF THE CONCUBINES' SHOES.

VAL>> THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF CONCUBINES, IS THAT RIGHT? THE EMPEROR WAS ALLOWED TO HAVE SEVERAL WIVES AND MANY CONCUBINES?

PETER KELLER>> EXACTLY. THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES. THESE ARE THE REGIMENTAL ARMOR FOR THE EMPEROR.

THERE'S AN INTERESTING STORY. THE PINK STONE THERE ON THE EMPEROR'S NECKLACE IS ACTUALLY TOURMALINE FROM CALIFORNIA.

WARREN>> FROM CALIFORNIA?

PETER KELLER>> FROM CALIFORNIA. THERE ARE MINES IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, OR IN SAN DIEGO COUNTY, THAT EXISTED MOSTLY AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY TO SUPPLY THIS MATERIAL TO THE LAST EMPEROR.

WARREN>> SO, AGAIN, THAT'S ONE OF THE MORE RECENT OBJECTS THAT'S IN THE COLLECTION?

PETER KELLER>> YES, THEY GO FROM 1644 TO 1911.

VAL>> ANN, WHEN YOU WENT OVER THERE, WAS IT HARD TO PERSUADE THEM TO TRUST THE BOWERS WITH ALL THESE PRECIOUS OBJECTS? WERE THEY HESITANT?

ANN CHI>> YES.

VAL>> YES, THEY WERE?

ANN CHI>> YES.

PETER KELLER>> ANN IS A VERY PERSUASIVE PERSON.

VAL>> NO DOUBT, YOU SPEAK CHINESE, SO THAT HELPS AS WELL.

ANN CHI>> YES.

PETER KELLER>> I WAS THERE IN DECEMBER WITH DENNIS POWER, THE DIRECTOR OF THE OAKLAND MUSEUM WHO'LL BE RECEIVING THIS EXHIBIT AFTER IT CLOSES AT THE BOWERS. WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT OURSELVES AND, BETWEEN US, WE HAVE PROBABLY FIFTY TO SIXTY YEARS OF MUSEUM EXPERIENCE AND WE BOTH REALIZED THAT THERE'S NO WAY WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THIS EXHIBIT WITHOUT SOMEONE WITH THE POWER OF ANN CHI.

WARREN>> I THINK WE HAVE STILL MORE OBJECTS TO SHOW AND TALK ABOUT, SO LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THIS FINAL CLIP.

PETER KELLER>> WELL, THIS IS RELATING TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT OF THE EMPEROR'S LIFE. AS I SAID, WE WERE LOOKING AT ALL ASPECTS OF THE EMPEROR'S LIFE. THE EMPERORS WERE, FOR THE MOST PART, BUDDHISTS AND WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH TIBET. THIS IS A TIBETAN [TONKA], WHICH IS VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT DEPICTS NOT BUDDHA IN THE CENTER, BUT EMPEROR QIAN LONG AGAIN, THE MAN WE SAW ON THE HORSE. THAT'S A VERY, VERY RARE PAINTING, BEAUTIFUL DETAIL.

WARREN>> SUGGESTS THE IMPORTANCE OF THE EMPEROR IN SO MANY RESPECTS.

PETER KELLER>> EXACTLY. AND THESE ARE PIECES THAT WOULD BE SEEN ON THE ALTER.

NOW WE'RE SWITCHING TO A CLOCK WHICH IS COVERED WITH JEWELS AND GOLD AND ENAMEL. THERE ARE MANY, MANY OF THESE CLOCKS IN THE FORBIDDEN CITY. THEY WERE BASICALLY THE GIFT OF CHOICE FROM THE EUROPEAN GOVERNMENTS TO THE EMPEROR.

VAL>> AND PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT THE WHOLE DYNASTY OVERSAW IN ESSENCE ONCE OF THE MOST INTENSE ERAS OF ART AND CULTURE AND ASTRONOMY. I MEAN, IT JUST SIGNALED ALMOST LIKE A RENAISSANCE THAT LASTED FOR 300 YEARS, SO IT'S EXTRAORDINARY STUFF.

SO, ANN, WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE DO? COME DOWN AND SEE?

ANN CHI>> YES, I SINCERELY INVITE ALL OF YOU TO COME OVER TO SEE THIS EXHIBITION.

VAL>> AND MAKE ALL YOUR TRIPS WORTHWHILE?

WARREN>> THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION AND THANK YOU FOR THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY SO VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF CHINA AND THE APPRECIATION OF THESE MAGNIFICENT OBJECTS. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE SECRET WORLD OF THE FORBIDDEN CITY, YOU CAN GET THE NUMBERS THAT ARE ON YOUR SCREEN RIGHT NOW. THE EXHIBITION'S ON DISPLAY, AGAIN, AT THE BOWERS MUSEUM OF CULTURAL ART IN SANTA ANA. IT'S GOING TO BE THERE THROUGH SEPTEMBER 3. DON'T MISS IT.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. OR CHECK OUT THEIR WEBSITE AT WWW.BOWERS.ORG.

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW, CARD ROOM OPERATORS SAY THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO STAY ALIVE IN THE FACE OF COMPETITION FROM INDIAN GAMBLING. HERE'S HOW ONE OWNER DESCRIBES WHAT'S AT STAKE.

>> IT WON'T BECOME ANOTHER LAS VEGAS NOR WILL IT BECOME ANOTHER ATLANTIC CITY. THIS DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THE PYRAMID NOR DOES IT LOOK LIKE A CASTLE NOR DOES IT LOOK LIKE THE AVERAGE CASINO THAT'S BEING BUILT IN LAS VEGAS TODAY OR ATLANTIC CITY, IN MR. TRUMP'S CASE.

WARREN>> THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, POPE JOHN PAUL IS ON HIS WAY TO THE MIDDLE EAST. AFTER ASKING FOR 2,000 YEARS OF FORGIVENESS, WHAT'S THE RESPONSE OF MUSLIMS AND JEWS? WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT TOMORROW.

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VAL>> FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING. WE'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW.

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