03/22/00

LC000322

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

THEY SNEAK INTO THE U.S. IN CARGO CONTAINERS AND SELL THEMSELVES INTO VIRTUAL SLAVERY. WE LOOK AT THE ILLEGAL SMUGGLING OF CHINESE IMMIGRANTS INTO THE U.S.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> MANY SMUGGLED CHINESE IMMIGRANTS LIKE SUI LING END UP WORKING EIGHTY HOURS A WEEK IN SWEATSHOPS TO PAY BACK THE SNAKEHEADS.

SO HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU HAVE TO PAY TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES?

SUI LING>> $38,000.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> $38,000 PER PERSON? AND HAVE YOU PAID THAT MONEY BACK AS YET?

SUI LING>> NO, NOT YET. WE STILL PAYING.

VAL>> AND DO YOU THINK YOUR KIDS ARE WASTING TIME ON VIDEO GAMES? IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, WE MAY CHANGE YOUR MIND. WE MEET THE PROFESSOR WHO FOUNDED A UNIVERSITY PROGRAM AROUND VIDEO GAMES.

AND REMEMBER THE OLD SAYING, "HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS"? SOUTHERN CALIFORNIANS POSE IN FRONT OF THE PLACE THEY HOLD DEAR TO THEIR HEARTS IN AN EXHIBIT CALLED "PRIDE AND HONOR".

THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR WEDNESDAY, MARCH 22, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

GTE
A COMPANY COMMITTED TO TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXCELLENCE AND AN OPEN DIALOGUE AMONG ALL PEOPLE.


AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA. WARREN OLNEY IS OFF. HE'LL BE BACK ON THURSDAY.

OUR TOP STORY, SMUGGLING CHINESE WORKERS INTO THE U.S. THE LUCKIER ONES COME THROUGH LAX ARMED WITH FAKE DOCUMENTS. OTHERS COME THROUGH MEXICO AND CANADA, BUT THE POOREST AND MOST DESPERATE COME ON CARGO SHIPS CRAMMED INTO METAL CONTAINERS. ONCE HERE, THEY OWE THEIR SMUGGLERS TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. SO WHERE DO THEY GO? HOW DO THEY PAY IT BACK? WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY CAN'T? THOSE ARE QUESTIONS THAT SPURRED TWO YOUNG TELEVISION REPORTERS TO SET OUT ON THEIR OWN JOURNEY FROM LOS ANGELES TO NEW YORK.

THEY WORK FOR CHANNEL ONE NEWS WHOSE STUDIOS ARE LOCATED HERE IN HOLLYWOOD. CHANNEL ONE PRODUCES A TEN-MINUTE NEWSCAST THAT GOES OUT TO MORE THAN 12,000 HIGH SCHOOLS EVERY DAY. AMONG THE STAFF IS PRODUCER, LAURA LING, AND REPORTER, GOTHAM CHOPRA.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> THE STORY LEADS FROM THE PORTS OF LOS ANGELES. AFTER YOU TALK TO ALL THE FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE INS AND THE FBI, THEY ALL POINT TOWARD NEW YORK. THAT'S WHERE EVERYONE'S GOING, SO WE FELT WE HAD TO GO THERE ALSO TO FIND OUT FROM --

VAL>> AFTER SIX WEEKS OF RESEARCH, SHOOTING AND EDITING, HERE'S WHAT THEY FOUND.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> EVERY FIFTEEN SECONDS, A CARGO CONTAINER IS OFFLOADED AT THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES. SEVERAL TIMES IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS, AUTHORITIES HAVE FOUND CHINESE IMMIGRANTS INSIDE THESE CONTAINERS, SOMETIMES OVER A DOZEN IMMIGRANTS SHUT INSIDE FOR TWO OR MORE WEEKS WITH NO RUNNING WATER, ELECTRICITY OR TOILETS.

WHAT WE DISCOVERED IS THAT THE CARGO CONTAINERS ARE JUST ONE MODE OF TRANSPORTATION USED BY COUNTLESS ILLEGAL CHINESE IMMIGRANTS COMING TO AMERICA IN SEARCH OF A DREAM.

IF YOU HAPPEN TO MAKE IT THROUGH, THEN YOU'VE ARRIVED IN AMERICA AND YOUR AMERICAN STORY BEGINS. BUT THAT AMERICAN STORY, AS WE FOUND OUT FOR THESE ILLEGAL CHINESE IMMIGRANTS, STARTS IN HUGE DEBT BECAUSE OF THE ENORMOUS SUMS OF MONEY THAT THEY HAVE AGREED TO PAY IN ORDER TO GET TO THE U.S.

CINDY CHANG>> THEY PAY, OR THEY ARE GOING TO PAY, AT LEAST $35,000 TO $50,000. FROM MY CLIENTS' STORY, THEY DON'T PAY UP FRONT. THEY WILL PAY BACK THOSE DEBTS AFTER THEY ARRIVE IN THE UNITED STATES AND START WORKING HERE.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> SO IF YOU OWED THE SMUGGLERS, CALLED SNAKEHEADS, SUCH AN AWESOME AMOUNT OF MONEY, WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST NOT PAY IT BACK? JUST RUN AWAY AND DISAPPEAR? WELL, BECAUSE AS WE FOUND OUT, THE SNAKEHEADS KNOW HOW TO COLLECT.

DURING THE CHINESE NEW YEAR CELEBRATION, WE MET STEVE WONG, A COMMUNITY LEADER IN NEW YORK CITY'S CHINATOWN WHO WORKS WITH MANY GROUPS IN THE COMMUNITY, FROM POLITICIANS TO PEOPLE IN THE STREET.

THIS IS STEVE WONG AND HE'S OBVIOUSLY QUITE HOOKED UP IN THE COMMUNITY. WE RUN WITH THE RIGHT CROWD. WONG RISKS HIS LIFE TO EXPOSE THE ABUSE THAT SMUGGLED IMMIGRANTS ENDURE AT THE HANDS OF THE SMUGGLERS CALLED SNAKEHEADS.

IS IT A DANGEROUS THING TO TALK ABOUT?

STEVE WONG>> YES, IT IS A VERY DANGEROUS THING TO TALK ABOUT IT.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> WONG RECEIVES FREQUENT DEATH THREATS FROM THE SNAKEHEADS.

STEVE WONG>> PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, PAGE ME ON A WEEKLY, DAILY BASIS WITH THE RETURN NUMBER OF FUNERAL HOMES, HINTING THAT THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BE.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> WONG RAISES AWARENESS ABOUT THE ABUSE THAT IMMIGRANTS SUFFER DUE TO THE LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY THEY OWE THE SNAKEHEADS.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DON'T PAY IT BACK OR IF THEY CAN'T PAY IT BACK?

STEVE WONG>> OH, THEY WILL BE HUNTED DOWN AND KILLED OR, YOU KNOW, THE FAMILY WILL BE IN CHAOS.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> SO THEY ARRIVE HERE DESPERATE TO FIND WORK TO PAY OFF THEIR DEBTS. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES WITHIN THIS BLOCK. THERE ARE AT LEAST SIX OR SEVEN THAT WE'VE SEEN.

THE WOMAN RUNNING THIS EMPLOYMENT AGENCY REFUSED TO TALK, BUT SOFTENED UP A BIT AFTER WE MADE FRIENDS WITH HER LITTLE DOG.

LAURA LING>> ARE THESE LISTS OF JOBS?

>> YEAH, THESE ARE THE JOBS AND THE PAY.

LAURA LING>> ARE MOST OF THE PEOPLE COMING IN, ARE THEY LEGAL AND ILLEGAL?

>> YEAH, THEY'RE ILLEGAL.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> THEY'RE ILLEGAL WORKERS?

>> YEAH, THEY'RE ILLEGAL WORKERS.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS GETTING WORK?

>> NO, THEY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> OUT ON THE STREET, MOST OF THE IMMIGRANTS WE SPOKE WITH TOLD US OF THE LARGE DEBTS THEY HAVE TO PAY BACK TO THE SNAKEHEADS.

HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU OWE?

>> I THINK ABOUT $60,000.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> SO IT TOOK YOU EIGHT YEARS TO PAY ALL THE MONEY BACK?

>> YEAH.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> SOME PEOPLE LIVE HERE. WE FOLLOWED A NEW YORK CITY POLICE DETECTIVE NAMED MING LEE INTO THE FOURTH FLOOR OF A CHINATOWN WAREHOUSE THAT HAS BEEN CONVERTED TO CRAMPED HOUSING FOR ABOUT 100 SMUGGLED IMMIGRANTS.

YOU CAN SEE THIS HALLWAY AND THE LITTLE ROOMS. THEY'RE REALLY TINY INSIDE. I MEAN, THE SPACES ARE REALLY CRAMPED. ABOVE, THERE ARE MORE QUARTERS WHERE PEOPLE SLEEP. IN SOME CASES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIVE -- UP TO SIX PEOPLE LIVE IN A ROOM LIKE THIS AND TAKE SHIFTS SLEEPING. THIS GENTLEMAN'S LET US INTO HIS HOME AND HE SAID THAT FOUR PEOPLE LIVE IN THIS SPACE AND YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A LADDER THAT LEADS UP AND THERE'S MORE SPACE UPSTAIRS, BUT NOT THAT MUCH.

DETECTIVE MING LEE WAS FAMILIAR WITH THIS HOUSING UNIT BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN A MURDER ON THIS FLOOR TWO WEEKS BEFORE OUR VISIT. THIS GUY WALKED IN ON THE CRIME TAKING PLACE AND GOT STABBED AND YOU CAN SEE HIS HAND ALL BANDAGED UP.

IN NEW YORK CITY'S CHINATOWN, I WENT TO THE CRAMPED OFFICES OF A CHINESE WORKERS GROUP WHERE I MET SUI LING, A NINETEEN-YEAR-OLD CHINESE IMMIGRANT.

SO HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU HAVE TO PAY TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES?

SUI LING>> $38,000.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> $38,000 PER PERSON? AND HAVE YOU PAID THAT MONEY BACK AS YET?

SUI LING>> NO, NOT YET. WE STILL PAYING.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> AND WHO DO YOU PAY THE MONEY TO?

SUI LING>> UH, THE SNAKEHEADS.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> THE SNAKEHEADS.

BUT WE NEEDED TO KNOW HOW SMUGGLED IMMIGRANTS AND THEIR FAMILIES PAY BACK SUMS THAT CAN REACH A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS TO THE SNAKEHEADS.

SO A COUPLE OF THE PEOPLE WE SPOKE TO WHO WERE TELLING US HOW TO LOOK FOR SWEATSHOPS AND LOOK WHERE STEAM IS COMING OUTSIDE A BUILDING OUT OF SMALL PIPES, OUT OF WINDOWS, AND I THINK WE FOUND ONE.

THE STEAM COMING OUT OF THESE BUILDINGS IN NEW YORK'S CHINATOWN INDICATES STEAM-PRODUCING MACHINERY IN GARMENT FACTORIES. MANY SMUGGLED CHINESE IMMIGRANTS LIKE SUI LING END UP WORKING EIGHTY HOURS A WEEK IN SWEATSHOPS TO PAY BACK THE SNAKEHEADS.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF PLACES WE SAW, A COUPLE DIFFERENT PLACES IN THIS BUILDING. EVERY FLOOR IS STACKED WITH SOMETHING LOOKING EXACTLY LIKE THIS. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT TALKING TO ANYBODY, IT'S HARD TO JUST ASSUME. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE WAGES THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING, WHAT HOURS THEY'RE WORKING, BUT YOU CAN SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT THE CONDITIONS ARE LIKE.

>> NO, NO, NO PICTURE, OKAY? STOP.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> I MEAN, DOES THIS LOOK SIMILAR TO THE TYPES OF PLACES YOU USED TO WORK?

SUI LING>> YEAH, A LOT.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> WERE YOU SURPRISED WHEN YOU CAME TO THE BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY AND YOU WERE WORKING THIRTEEN HOURS A DAY, MAKING ONE DOLLAR AN HOUR?

SUI LING>> YEAH, I WAS SCARED.

GOTHAM CHOPRA>> YOU WERE SCARED?

SUI LING>> I WAS AFRAID IF I LIVE HERE, THEN MY EVERYDAY LIFE IS LIKE JUST GOING TO THE FACTORY AND THEN GET OUT OF THE MIDDLE NIGHT, THEN GO BACK TO FACTORY AGAIN.

PETER KWONG>> THE EMPLOYERS WANT TO HIRE THESE ILLEGALS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'RE CHEAP, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'RE VULNERABLE. IF A CHINESE ILLEGAL COMING HERE, ABLE TO GET A JOB AND ABLE TO MAKE MONEY TO PAY THE SMUGGLING NETWORK, AND THE SMUGGLING NETWORK THEREFORE IS GUARANTEED THAT THE INVESTMENT GOT THE RETURN, THEN THEY WILL CONTINUE TO IMPORT MORE ILLEGALS. CHINESE HAPPENS TO BE HIGHEST, BUT THE SAME KIND OF SMUGGLING OPERATION IS GOING ON ELSEWHERE BECAUSE IT'S SO PROFITABLE.

SUI LING>> I JUST THINK, YOU KNOW, AFTER JOURNEY, I WILL GO TO A VERY BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, UNITED STATES AND I WILL LIVE WITH MY FAMILY HAPPY FOREVER AFTER THIS, YOU KNOW, AWFUL EXPERIENCE. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT AND I ALWAYS ENCOURAGE MYSELF. IT WILL BE BETTER LIFE IF I LIVE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

VAL>> NOW THOSE CHANNEL ONE REPORTERS TELL US THAT SUI LING, WHO YOU JUST SAW, IS NOW WORKING AT A DUNKIN DONUTS IN NEW YORK, ALTHOUGH SHE PLANS TO GO TO COLLEGE. BUT IT WILL TAKE HER ANOTHER FIVE YEARS TO PAY OFF HER $38,000 DEBT. HER ENTIRE FAMILY OWES $228,000 AND, IN THE WORLD OF IMMIGRANT SMUGGLING, THE PRICES THAT CHINESE WORKERS PAY ARE BY FAR THE HIGHEST.

WELL, TIME NOW TO CHANGE GEARS FOR OUR TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

CRITICS MAY FIND IT AMUSING THAT A SCHOOL IN THE UC SYSTEM WOULD OFFER AN ACADEMIC PROGRAM IN GAMING STUDIES, BUT THESE DAYS VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. THE WALL STREET JOURNAL REPORTS THAT THE GAMING INDUSTRY TOOK IN $7.5 BILLION DOLLARS LAST YEAR. THAT EQUALS MOVIE TICKET SALES IN BOTH THE U.S. AND CANADA. SO COURSES IN UC IRVINE'S INTERDISCIPLINARY GAMING PROGRAM WILL BEGIN THIS FALL. HERE WITH MORE IS THE PROGRAM'S DIRECTOR, ROBERT NIDEFFER, A PROFESSOR OF STUDIO ART AND INFORMATION AND COMPUTER SCIENCE AT UC IRVINE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, PROFESSOR NIDEFFER.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> MY PLEASURE.

VAL>> I HAVE TO SAY, THE FIRST IMPRESSION IS, A DEGREE IN VIDEO GAMES? THIS HAS TO RANK RIGHT UP THERE WITH THE DEGREE IN FRISBEE PLAYING THAT WAS, I THINK, AT ONE OF THE CAMPUSES IN SANTA ROSA. YOU MUST BE TAKING FLAK FOR THIS.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> WELL, ACTUALLY, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PRETTY SUPPORTIVE, BUT THERE HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF -- YOU KNOW, IF YOU READ BETWEEN THE LINES, YOU CAN TELL THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A STIGMA ATTACHED TO THE IDEA OF GAMES AND GAMING AT THE UNIVERSITY.

VAL>> WELL, CONVINCE PARENTS, WHO HAVE THEIR STUDENTS AT UC IRVINE WHO MAY WANT TO MAJOR IN THIS, CONVINCE THEM THAT IT REALLY IS A SUBSTANTIVE TOPIC.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> WELL, I THINK A GOOD ANALOGY IS ACTUALLY THE FILMS STUDIES PROGRAMS THAT EMERGED NOT TOO LONG AGO. WHEN THOSE WERE FIRST BEING PROPOSED, PEOPLE REALLY THOUGHT HOW COULD YOU WATCH MOVIES IN THE CONTEXT OF A CLASSROOM AT A UNIVERSITY AND REALLY TAKE IT SERIOUSLY? I THINK THAT THOSE PROGRAMS HAVE REALLY PROVEN TO BE SOME OF THE MORE INTERESTING DISCIPLINES TO EMERGE IN RECENT YEARS AND THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF IMPORTANT WORK.

VAL>> ABSOLUTELY. NOWADAYS, AMONG THE MOST COMPETITIVE GRADUATE SCHOOLS TO GET INTO ARE THE FILM SCHOOLS.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY TAPPING INTO SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING IN POPULAR CULTURE AND WE HAVE SUCH A VISUAL CULTURE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN THOSE KINDS OF TOPICS. I DON'T THINK GAMES ARE REALLY ANYTHING DIFFERENT.

VAL>> SO WHAT IS INVOLVED IN DEVELOPING A REALLY SOPHISTICATED VIDEO GAME? WHEN YOU SAY "INTERDISCIPLINARY", WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> WELL, WHEN I SAY INTERDISCIPLINARY, WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS THINK WHAT IS IT THAT THE UNIVERSITY CAN OFFER THAT WOULD BE SORT OF INTERESTING AND SOMETHING THAT THESE COMPANIES AREN'T ALREADY DOING? ONE THING THAT WE HAVE IS A REAL TOP-NOTCH FACULTY AND A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS. INFORMATION AND COMPUTER SCIENCE, SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING, SCHOOL OF THE ARTS, SCHOOL OF SOCIAL SCIENCES. I REALLY WANT TO TRY AND CREATE THE SPACE FOR STUDENTS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND THINK CRITICALLY ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE DOING AS THEY PLAY THESE GAMES, AS THEY MAY START TO PRODUCE THEM AS WELL.

VAL>> SO THEY WILL LEARN THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF PRODUCING THEM, BUT YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT THEM TO ASK LARGER, SAY, SOCIETAL QUESTIONS? THE ONE THAT COMES TO MIND, OF COURSE, IS VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES. WHAT KIND OF IMPACT ARE THEY HAVING ON YOUNG MINDS? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOUR PROGRAM WOULD EXPLORE?

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> I THINK THAT'S ABSOLUTELY A VERY INTERESTING THING TO EXPLORE. AGAIN, THE IDEA OF THIS PROGRAM IS TO REALLY THINK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT JUST HANDS-ON PRACTICE, BUT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF WHAT THE UNIVERSITY IS THERE FOR, WHICH IS TO REALLY PROVIDE PEOPLE WITH CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS SO THAT IT'S A MIX OF THEORY AND PRACTICE. I THINK THAT'S GOING TO MAKE FOR A MORE WELL-ROUNDED AND INTERESTING STUDENT, AS MANY OF THEM WILL WANT TO KIND OF GO INTO THESE INDUSTRIES AFTER THEY MOVE THROUGH THE PROGRAM.

VAL>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOCIOLOGY CLASSES, COMPUTER CLASSES, ART CLASSES?

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> YEAH. THIS WILL BE AN INTERDISCIPLINARY MINOR THAT STUDENTS WILL BE ABLE TO DECLARE AND IT WILL CONSIST OF, AGAIN, CLASSES WITHIN ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES. THERE WOULD BE TWO TO THREE CORE COURSES AND THEN FOUR TO FIVE ADDITIONAL COURSES FOR SPECIALIZATION WITHIN PARTICULAR TRACKS OF EMPHASIS.

VAL>> NOW WHAT GAVE YOU THE IDEA? WERE STUDENTS BANGING DOWN YOUR DOORS SAYING, "GEE, WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF I COULD MAJOR IN VIDEO GAMES BECAUSE I SPEND HOURS ON THEM ANYWAY"? HOW DID IT COME ABOUT?

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> NOT REALLY. I WAS --

VAL>> SO IT DIDN'T COME FROM THAT. 

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> I WAS HIRED IN TO TEACHING THE DIGITAL ARTS, TO LEAD UP THAT AREA WITHIN THE STUDIO ART DEPARTMENT. IT'S ALREADY A VERY IMPACTED MINOR, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. IT'S A VERY HOT TOPIC --

VAL>> HIGH DEMAND.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> -- YEAH, AND HIGH DEMAND. SO IT REALLY WASN'T THAT. I GREW UP PLAYING VIDEO GAMES. IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'VE LOVED TO DO FOR YEARS. MY OWN BACKGROUND MOVES THROUGH THE SOCIAL SCIENCES INTO THE ARTS AND THEN INTO THE COMPUTER SCIENCES.

VAL>> WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS, ARE YOU RESPONDING TO MARKET FORCES?

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S A DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ANSWER. I THINK THE UNIVERSITY IS INCREASINGLY FEELING PRESSURE FROM THE STATE TO BE DOING SOMETHING THAT KIND OF TRANSITIONS PEOPLE INTO JOBS WITHIN, YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRIES. SO I THINK THAT PRESSURE IS THERE. BUT, NO, THIS IS NOT JUST PURELY A RESPONSE TO MARKET FORCES. I THINK IT CAN RESPOND TO THOSE FORCES IN SOME INTERESTING WAYS, BUT --

VAL>> I DON'T NECESSARILY MEAN TO MAKE YOU DEFENSIVE. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD REASONS TO DESIGN COURSES FOR WHICH THERE IS HIGH DEMAND FOR JOBS OUT THERE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S A SUBSTANTIVE COURSE. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY BAD.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> OH, NO, NO. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE STRENGTHS OF THIS KIND OF A PROGRAM IS THAT IT HAS THE ABILITY TO WEAR MANY DIFFERENT HATS FOR MANY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST. ALREADY I'VE BEEN GETTING A LOT OF INTEREST FROM STUDENTS THAT WANT TO SIGN UP FOR THIS KIND OF A PROGRAM, FROM COMPANIES THAT WOULD LIKE TO PARTNER IN INTERESTING WAYS, FROM RESEARCHERS THAT WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SETTING UP VARIOUS KINDS OF COLLABORATIONS.

VAL>> I WAS AMAZED TO LEARN THAT VIDEO GAMES TAKE $2 MILLION DOLLARS, AS MUCH AS TWO TO THREE YEARS AND A TEAM OF A DOZEN PROFESSIONALS TO ACTUALLY MAKE IT HAPPEN. THAT'S AN AMAZING AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT IN THESE VIDEO GAMES.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> YEAH, IT'S REALLY PRETTY ASTOUNDING. IF YOU GO INTO SOME OF THESE COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE REALLY CUTTING EDGE. THEY'RE DOING -- YOU JUST KIND OF TOUR THROUGH AND YOU SEE TOP LINE SOUND STUDIOS, YOU SEE VIDEO STUDIOS, YOU SEE MOTION CAPTURE STUDIOS, YOU SEE SET DESIGN AND 3D MODELING AND ANIMATION. SO --

VAL>> ALMOST LIKE MINI MOVIES.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> ABSOLUTELY. MANY AREAS OF THE ARTS AND THE COMPUTATIONAL SCIENCES ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF A LOT OF THE --

VAL>> MY FINAL QUESTION, SINCE YOU'VE DEALT SO MUCH WITH VIDEO GAMES, BOTH PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE IMPACT IS OF A VIOLENT VIDEO GAME BEING PLAYED FOR HOURS AND HOURS BY A YOUNG PERSON? DO YOU THINK IT DOES HAVE AN IMPACT ON THEIR MORALS OR BEHAVIOR?

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> WELL, I THINK THAT TO SAY THAT THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, EXPERIENCE OF VIOLENT MEDIA AND YOUR SORT OF PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP TO VIOLENCE IS SILLY. BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO EQUALLY SILLY TO PRESUME THAT THERE'S A CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP. SO IT'S JUST A COMPLICATED QUESTION THAT --

VAL>> WELL, HOPEFULLY YOUR PROGRAM WILL HAVE IT EXPLORED AND ANSWERED IN A FEW YEARS. WE CAN HAVE YOU BACK WITH AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. PROFESSOR NIDEFFER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

ROBERT NIDEFFER>> THANK YOU, VAL.

AND NOW, ANOTHER OF OUR OCCASIONAL LOOKS AT LOST LA. THE MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY HAS A COLLECTION OF PHOTOGRAPHS, SOME DATING BACK 150 YEARS, THAT SHOW A COMMON THEME. IT IS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIANS DISPLAYING THEIR PRIDE IN THEIR HOMES AND BUSINESSES BY POSING IN FRONT OF THEM. LOOKING AT THESE VIGNETTES OFFERS A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE ON THE PAST, AS WE'LL SEE IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

IN MANY OLD PHOTOS, WHOLE FAMILIES WOULD ARRANGE THEMSELVES BEFORE THEIR HOMES OR BUSINESS PEOPLE WOULD POSE IN FRONT OF THEIR ESTABLISHMENTS. THIS PRIDE IN HOME AND HONOR IN WORK SEEMS COMMON IN THE PHOTOS OF THE PAST, BUT WHAT DOES IT TELL US ABOUT CALIFORNIA CULTURE AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY? HERE WITH MORE IS JANET FIREMAN OF THE NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

JANET FIREMAN>> GOOD TO BE HERE, VAL. THANKS.

VAL>> WELL, YOU HAVE CHOSEN A PARTICULAR NAME, "PRIDE AND HONOR", BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SEEMS TO EMOTE OR, WHAT'S THE WORD, COME OUT OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, THIS INTENSE PERSONAL HONOR AND PRIDE. WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT CAME FROM?

JANET FIREMAN>> WELL, I THINK THAT THOSE ARE VALUES THAT RESIDENTS OF LOS ANGELES SHARE WITH PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD, TO HAVE PRIDE IN THEIR HOMES AND HONOR IN THEIR WORK. WE CHOSE THAT SPECIFIC THEME TO COORDINATE WITH ANOTHER EXHIBITION THAT WE HAVE AT THE MUSEUM NOW. ONE THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT A FEW WEEKS AGO ON LIFE AND TIMES, WHICH IS CALLED EL NUEVO MUNDO, THE LATINO LANDSCAPE OF LOS ANGELES. IN THOSE PHOTOS SHOWING THE CURRENT PHENOMENON OF NEW LATINO IMMIGRATION TO LOS ANGELES, THOSE VALUES ARE SHOWN IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS.

VAL>> LET'S LET THE PHOTOGRAPHS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

JANET FIREMAN>> ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME THAT YOU'VE BROUGHT ALONG. THE FIRST ONE IS OF THE SEPULVEDA FAMILY AT THE MOTT HOME. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS.

JANET FIREMAN>> RIGHT. THIS IS ACTUALLY THE HOME OF THOMAS MOTT, WHO MARRIED INTO THE SEPULVEDA FAMILY. HE'S THE GENTLEMAN WITH THE FUNNY HAT -- WELL, WITH THE HAT, SITTING BY THE TREE. AS YOU CAN NOTICE, THE FAMILY IS ARRAYED AROUND THIS FAMILY TREE IN FRONT OF THE HOME.

VAL>> AND THE WOMEN SITTING DOWN IN FRONT. OH MY GOSH, LOOK AT THOSE DRESSES.

JANET FIREMAN>> WOMEN IN FRONT. MRS. MOTT, WHO WAS A SEPULVEDA BY BIRTH, IS THE WOMAN ON THE FAR LEFT. SHE'S THE GRANDDAUGHTER OF FRANCISCO SEPULVEDA, WHO WAS THE FIRST SEPULVEDA TO COME TO CALIFORNIA. HE WAS A RANCHERO AND CAME IN THE SPANISH PERIOD.

VAL>> NO DOUBT OWNED A LOT OF LAND AT THE TIME AND, OF COURSE, WE KNOW HIM NOW BY THE SEPULVEDA PASS AND SEPULVEDA BOULEVARD.

JANET FIREMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT. THERE WERE A LOT OF SEPULVEDAS AND THEY OWNED A NUMBER OF RANCHES AND THEY MARRIED PROMINENTLY.

VAL>> AND INTO ANGLO SOCIETY, IT SEEMS.

JANET FIREMAN>> RIGHT.

VAL>> THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH YOU HAVE IS OF FRED [JIRO] FUJIOKA. IT'S FROM ABOUT 1930. TELL US ABOUT THIS PICTURE.

JANET FIREMAN>> RIGHT. FRED [JIRO] FUJIOKA WAS AN IMMIGRANT FROM JAPAN. MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN THIS EXHIBITION ARE IMMIGRANTS TO LOS ANGELES, WHICH IS STILL TRUE ABOUT MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN LOS ANGELES TODAY. THEY'RE IMMIGRANTS. FUJIOKA CAME FROM JAPAN TO LOS ANGELES IN 1903 AND STUDIED ENGINEERING AND OWNED THEN A GARAGE, AN AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR GARAGE, IN WHAT'S NOW CALLED LITTLE TOKYO. HE ALSO DESIGNED AN AUTOMOBILE THAT WAS MANUFACTURED. I'M ACTUALLY NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE CAR THAT HE DESIGNED HIMSELF. BUT HE'S ARRAYED THERE WITH HIS FAMILY.

VAL>> WAS HE A PROMINENT CITIZEN AT THAT TIME OR JUST --

JANET FIREMAN>> HE WAS PROMINENT IN THE JAPANESE COMMUNITY. YES, HE WAS. ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> NOW THE NEXT ONE YOU HAVE IS THE RESIDENCE OF HERMAN W. HELLMAN ON SOUTH HILL STREET.

JANET FIREMAN>> TALK ABOUT PROMINENCE. HERBERT HELLMAN, YOU CAN SEE, DID PRETTY WELL.

VAL>> AND HE WAS, OF COURSE, FAMOUS FOR THE HELLMAN BAKERY.

JANET FIREMAN>> THAT'S IN THE FAMILY, RELATED. THIS HELLMAN ACTUALLY WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF THE FARMERS & MERCHANT BANK IN LOS ANGELES AND HE WAS A VICE PRESIDENT OF THE BANK BEFORE THAT HAD BEEN A MERCHANT. MADE A BIG FORTUNE THAT WAY. HE'D COME TO LOS ANGELES IN 1858 FROM GERMANY, FROM BAVARIA.

VAL>> WHAT A GORGEOUS HOME. DOES THAT HOME STILL EXIST?

JANET FIREMAN>> OH, NO, IT DOESN'T. THAT HOUSE WAS AT THE CORNER OF OLYMPIC AND HILL STREET AND IT'S NOW A SEWING MACHINE FACTORY. WE TOOK A LOOK AT THAT LOCATION. IT DOESN'T LOOK ANYTHING THE SAME ANYMORE.

VAL>> NOW WE ALSO PHOTOGRAPHED BUSINESSES. SO OUR NEXT PICTURE IS OF THE PEOPLES STORE, MORE OR LESS 1880. TELL US WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE.

JANET FIREMAN>> THE PEOPLES STORE IS INTERESTING. IT WAS OPERATED BY A FAMILY CALLED HAMBURGER. THEY CAME TO LOS ANGELES FROM SACRAMENTO IN THE 1850'S AND WERE VERY SUCCESSFUL IN A DRY GOODS STORE AND MOVED FROM ONE LOCATION TO ANOTHER AS THEY WERE MORE AND MORE SUCCESSFUL TO BIGGER QUARTERS. EVENTUALLY, THEY CHANGED THE NAME FROM PEOPLES STORE TO HAMBURGERS AND OPENED A BIG STORE AT EIGHTH BETWEEN BROADWAY AND HILL AND THEN SOLD LATER ON IN THE 1920'S TO DAVID MAY AND IT BECAME THE MAY COMPANY.

VAL>> OH, NO KIDDING.

JANET FIREMAN>> MAY COMPANY STORE AND IT HAD ITS ORIGINS HERE.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT A COUPLE MORE. THE NEXT ONE IS A WATCH REPAIR SHOP. TELL US ABOUT THIS ONE.

JANET FIREMAN>> THIS WATCH REPAIR SHOP AND THE MAN STANDING IN FRONT ON THE LEFT IS ADAM CLARK VROMAN AND HE WAS THE FOUNDER. THAT WATCH REPAIR SHOP WAS THE BEGINNING OF WHAT BECAME VROMAN'S BOOKSTORE, THAT FAMOUS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA INSTITUTION IN PASADENA. LATER ON, THERE WERE SEVERAL OTHER LOCATIONS ON COLORADO BOULEVARD BEFORE THE CURRENT BIG STORE AND THE ONE ON LAKE. VROMAN WAS AN AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER. HE TOOK MANY PICTURES, BEAUTIFUL PHOTOGRAPHS, OF INDIANS IN SOUTHWESTERN SCENES.

VAL>> REALLY?

JANET FIREMAN>> THOSE ARE ALSO IN THE COLLECTION AT THE --

VAL>> HOW WONDERFUL.

JANET FIREMAN>> -- MUSEUM WITH THESE PHOTOS.

VAL>> AND OUR FINAL PHOTOGRAPH IS THE DUCOMMAN COMPANY HARDWARE.

JANET FIREMAN>> THIS IS AN INTERESTING STORY TOO BECAUSE THE DUCOMMAN BUSINESS IS THE OLDEST CONTINUALLY OPERATING BUSINESS IN LOS ANGELES. IT STARTED OUT BY CHARLES DUCOMMAN, WHO WAS A SWISS IMMIGRANT TO THE UNITED STATES IN 1841. HE CAME TO CALIFORNIA WITH THE GOLD RUSH AS A WATCH REPAIRMAN, GRADUALLY INCREASED HIS STORE IN SIZE AND DIVERSITY FROM HARDWARE TO OTHER THINGS TO THE POINT THAT, TODAY, DUCOMMAN IS A MAJOR COMMUNICATIONS AND AEROSPACE INDUSTRY.

VAL>> THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL STORE ARCHITECTURALLY, TOO. IT'S JUST BEAUTIFUL.

JANET FIREMAN>> IT'S LOVELY, ISN'T IT? VERY NICE.

VAL>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STOPPING BY. THIS HAS INSPIRED, I THINK, A LOT OF PEOPLE TO GO OUT, STAND IN FRONT OF THEIR HOMES OR THEIR BUSINESSES AND GET IT RECORDED, GET IT DOCUMENTED.

JANET FIREMAN>> HAVE YOUR PICTURES TAKEN. ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> BECAUSE AS WE ALL JUST LEARNED, MUCH OF THIS IS PASSING. IT DOESN'T LAST FOREVER.

JANET FIREMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JANET FIREMAN, FOR BEING WITH US.

JANET FIREMAN>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

VAL>> AND YOU CAN CHECK THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN FOR INFORMATION ON THE EXHIBITION, "PRIDE AND HONOR", AT THE NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY. IT WILL BE SHOWING THROUGH JULY 16.

(213) 763-DINO
WWW.NHM.ORG

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW, WHY WOULD ORANGE COUNTY DEPUTIES SPEND WEEKEND NIGHTS GOING TO TEENAGE PARTIES?

>> SOME OF THE PARTIES -- THE BIGGER PARTIES WE'VE BEEN GOING TO, THERE'S BEEN FIGHTS BREAKING OUT AT EVERY ONE OF THEM LATELY, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE PAYING MORE ATTENTION TO THE TEEN VIOLENCE THESE DAYS.

VAL>> FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A GREAT EVENING. THANKS FOR WATCHING. TAKE CARE.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

GTE
A COMPANY COMMITTED TO TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXCELLENCE AND AN OPEN DIALOGUE AMONG ALL PEOPLE.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-644-4159. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFE AND TIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.