03/27/00

LC000327

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> THE MAN IN CHARGE OF LA UNIFIED SAYS HE'S ON A MISSION TO HELP KIDS DO BETTER IN THE CLASSROOM BY GETTING THE BUREAUCRATS OUT OF THEIR WAY.

GAY YEE>> CORTINES WANTS TO RECONNECT KIDS WITH LEARNING. HIS FIRST STOP IS HERE AT 450 NORTH GRAND, THE DISTRICT'S DOWNTOWN HEADQUARTERS.

RAY CORTINES>> SOMETIMES I SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO IMPROVE ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT IN SCHOOLS?" AND I GOT THE COMMENT, "WELL, I GO TO THIS MEETING AND I GO TO THAT MEETING."

VAL>> AND JUST TWO MILES OFF PALOS VERDES LIES THE WORLD'S LARGEST DEPOSIT OF DDT. WE'LL HEAR ABOUT A HIGH-RISK PLAN TO CAP IT, IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

WARREN>> PATT MORRISON FINDS THAT CHANGE AT DISNEYLAND IS GROWING FASTER THAN FIVE O'CLOCK SHADOW.

PATT>> HAIRY FACES, YES. HAIR-RAISING RIDES? MAYBE NOT. RIDING FOR A FALL ON AMUSEMENT PARK SAFETY, ON TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> AND HAPPY NOROUZ! WE'LL LOOK AT THE THIRTEEN-DAY CELEBRATION OF LIFE WHICH GREETS THE IRANIAN NEW YEAR.

WARREN>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR MONDAY, MARCH 27, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

GTE
A COMPANY COMMITTED TO TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXCELLENCE AND AN OPEN DIALOGUE AMONG ALL PEOPLE.


AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, EDUCATION, ADMINISTRATION AND REORGANIZATION. IT'S THE PLAN BY THE LA UNIFIED SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT, RAMON CORTINES, TO SHIFT POWER AND PERSONNEL AWAY FROM DISTRICT HEADQUARTERS BACK TO LOCAL SCHOOLS.

VAL>> CORTINES BELIEVES THE DISTRICT IS TOP-HEAVY. HE WANTS TO SLICE THE NUMBER OF ADMINISTRATIVE AND STAFF POSITIONS IN HALF. IT'S ALL PART OF HIS PLAN TO IMPROVE STUDENT PERFORMANCE AND AVOID BREAKING UP THE DISTRICT. GAY YEE EXPLAINS HOW IT WOULD WORK.

GAY>> HOW WELL ARE STUDENTS ACHIEVING? THAT'S THE QUESTION FACING EVERY SCHOOL IN THIS STATE. BUT HERE IN LA UNIFIED, THERE'S ANOTHER GROUP WHOSE ACHIEVEMENTS ARE UNDER SCRUTINY AS WELL, NAMELY THE BUREAUCRACY. AND THE DISTRICT'S NEW SUPERINTENDENT, RAY CORTINES, DOESN'T LIKE WHAT HE'S SEEN.

RAY CORTINES>> I THINK ADULTS GET CAUGHT UP IN DOING A JOB. THEY GET CAUGHT UP IN PAPER, DEVELOPING PLANS, HAVING MEETINGS. SOMETIMES I SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO IMPROVE ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT IN SCHOOLS?" AND I GOT THE COMMENT, "WELL, I GO TO THIS MEETING AND I GO TO THAT MEETING." I'D SAY, "NO, WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP TEACHERS, TO HELP--". "WELL, I GO TO THIS MEETING." SEE, THERE WAS A DISCONNECT. IT'S NOT THAT THEY WEREN'T BUSY. IT'S NOT THAT THEY WERE DISINGENUOUS. BUT WE LOSE FOCUS.

GAY>> CORTINES WANTS TO RECONNECT KIDS WITH LEARNING. HIS FIRST STOP IS HERE AT 450 NORTH GRAND, THE DISTRICT'S DOWNTOWN HEADQUARTERS. HE PLANS TO CUT OVER 800 JOBS AND THOSE WHO REMAIN IN THE CENTRAL OFFICE WILL HAVE LESS AUTHORITY AND NOT CALL THE SHOTS FOR THE DISTRICT'S 500-PLUS SCHOOLS. PRINCIPALS WILL ANSWER TO A DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT IN ONE OF ELEVEN NEWLY-CREATED MINI-DISTRICTS THAT CORTINES WANTS TO ESTABLISH.

TODAY, SCHOOLS ARE ORGANIZED IN TWENTY-SIX CLUSTERS, OR GROUPS, BUT THE PURSE STRINGS AND REAL POWER ARE AT THE DISTRICT HEADQUARTERS.

HOWARD LAPPIN>> WHAT I WANT TO SEE AS A RESULT OF THIS REORGANIZATION IS THAT KIDS ARE GOING TO LEARN BECAUSE DECISIONS ARE MADE AT SCHOOLS OR CLOSE TO SCHOOLS. THE DECISIONS AREN'T MADE DOWNTOWN BY SOMEBODY THERE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING, BUT THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE THE CENTRAL PIECE AND THAT THE DECISIONS ARE MADE AT THE SCHOOL FOR THE KIDS AT THE SCHOOLS.

GAY>> FOSHAY LEARNING CENTER PRINCIPAL, HOWARD LAPPIN, HOPES TO SEE TRUE POWER IN THE NEW LOCAL DISTRICTS.

HOWARD LAPPIN>> WHAT I LIKE ABOUT WHAT I'VE READ AND WHAT I HOPE THAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT THE SUPERINTENDENTS OF THE DISTRICTS WILL BE GIVEN REAL DECISION-MAKING ABILITY, GETTING INPUT FROM PEOPLE AND THEN DOING IT. THAT'S NEVER BEEN BEFORE AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S EXCITING. SO IT'S NOT JUST A REGION, IT'S NOT JUST A CLUSTER AND IT'S NOT JUST AN AREA. BUT IT REALLY IS A DECISION-MAKING. BUT PART OF IT'S GOING TO BE WHO'S CHOSEN.

GAY>> SUPERINTENDENT CORTINES POINTS OUT LA'S DISMAL TEST SCORES ARE PROOF THE OLD WAYS HAVEN'T WORKED.

RAY CORTINES>> AND WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS TO MOVE THE PRACTITIONERS, THE PEOPLE, TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS, CLOSER TO THAT TEAM OF A SMALLER, SLIMMER, LOCAL ADMINISTRATION TO WHERE THEY ARE, SO THEY TOGETHER CAN MAKE DECISIONS. I MEAN, THE REORGANIZATION IS NOT GOING TO IMPROVE EDUCATION BY ITSELF. IT IS ONLY GOING TO IMPROVE EDUCATION WHEN, I BELIEVE, THAT TEACHERS AND PARENTS AND ADMINISTRATORS COME TOGETHER TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS.

GAY>> NO JOB IS SAFE UNDER THE NEW PLAN. PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE REMAINING POSTS IN THE CENTRAL OFFICE AS WELL AS JOBS IN THE MINI-DISTRICTS. AND WHAT BECOMES OF THOSE WHO LOSE OUT? WELL, SOME WILL RETIRE, BUT OTHERS WILL BE FORCED TO RETURN TO THEIR OLD JOBS AS SCHOOL SITE ADMINISTRATORS OR TEACHERS, AND THAT IS TRICKY.

HERE AT FOSHAY, FOR EXAMPLE, KELVIN LAND HAS BEEN ON THE JOB AS AN ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL SINCE LAST MONTH. ADMINISTRATORS, TEACHERS AND PARENTS WERE ALL INVOLVED IN THE DECISION TO HIRE HIM, BUT HE COULD BE BUMPED BY SOMEONE FROM THE DISTRICT HEADQUARTERS WITH MORE SENIORITY.

KELVIN LAND>> RIGHT NOW I'M STILL NOT SURE AS TO WHAT'S HAPPENING. IT ALL IS HAPPENING VERY FAST, THOUGH.

GAY>> LAPPIN HIMSELF FEELS SAFE. HE HAS MANY YEARS SENIORITY AS A PRINCIPAL, BUT HE WORRIES ABOUT STAFF LIKE LAND WITH LOW SENIORITY. HE ALSO WORRIES ABOUT WHO MIGHT COME TO FOSHAY.

HOWARD LAPPIN>> I'M CONCERNED WITH ANYBODY WHO IS AT A JOB WHERE THEY WERE HAPPY AND ARE NOW BEING FORCED INTO A JOB IN SOME CASES THAT MEANS A CHANGE IN PAY AND MEANS A CHANGE IN STATUS IN THEIR MIND AND HOW THEY'RE GOING TO FEEL. I DON'T WANT ANYBODY ASSIGNED TO THIS SCHOOL WHO ISN'T HAPPY BEING ASSIGNED TO THIS SCHOOL. THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE A GOOD THING FOR KIDS. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP KIDS. THAT'S MY GREAT FEAR.

GAY>> CORTINES SAYS HE'S TALKING WITH THE ADMINISTRATORS UNION TO SEE IF THESE BUMPS CAN BE WORKED OUT TO AVOID DISRUPTING SCHOOLS THAT ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. THE QUESTIONS ARE ENDLESS AND NO ONE IS ASSURED HE OR SHE WILL LIKE THE ANSWERS. EVEN THE MAN WHO CAME TO WORK AT 5:30 EVERY MORNING FOR WEEKS TO HELP CORTINES DRAFT THE REORGANIZATION IS OUT OF A JOB. ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT, GORDON WOHLERS, SEEMS TO ACCEPT HE WILL HAVE TO APPLY FOR A NEW POSITION.

GORDON WOHLERS>> I THINK, THOUGH, THE FAR MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THAT YOU WOULD SPEAK WITH IN CENTRAL OFFICE WOULD AGREE THAT SOMETHING HAD TO CHANGE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

GAY>> CORTINES RECOGNIZES THAT SOME DOWNTOWN ADMINISTRATORS ARE ANGRY WITH HIM AND THAT ALMOST ALL ARE ANXIOUS. BUT IT'S CHANGING THE CULTURE THAT'S IMPORTANT.

RAY CORTINES>> THIS CULTURE DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. IT'S YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS OF "CAN YOU HIRE SO-AND-SO? YOU KNOW, THEY'RE MY FRIEND." OR "CAN YOU BRING SOMEBODY DOWN HERE? YOU KNOW, THEY ONLY HAVE THREE MORE YEARS" OR WHATEVER. YET, I DON'T SEE US ALWAYS ASKING THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS WITH THE STUDENT IN MIND AND HOW PRODUCTIVE WE ARE. I THINK THAT THE WAY WE HAVE HANDLED STUDENTS IN THIS DISTRICT, WE'VE LOWERED THE BAR.

GAY>> THE SUPERINTENDENT SAYS HE'S HOLDING FAST TO HIS INTENTION TO LEAVE THE DISTRICT BY THE END OF JUNE. HE SAYS CHANGING THE CULTURE MEANS FOLLOWING A BLUEPRINT, NOT ANY ONE PERSON.

WARREN>> NOW HE SAID HE MIGHT LEAVE EVEN EARLIER IF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION DOESN'T VOTE ON WHAT DATE TO APPROVE ALL OF THIS CHANGE?

GAY>> WELL, THEY RELEASED THE PROPOSAL IN MID-MARCH, MARCH 13, 14, AND THE DEADLINE IS APRIL 11. APRIL 11 IS WHEN THEY WILL GO AHEAD AND VOTE ON IT.

VAL>> WHEN THE BOARD EITHER HAS TO ACCEPT OR REJECT THIS? AND CORTINES HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT, IF THE BOARD DOESN'T GIVE APPROVAL, HE WALKS. HE'S OUT OF THERE.

GAY>> RIGHT.

VAL>> IS THIS ALSO GOING TO SAVE MONEY? IS THAT PART OF THE REASON OR IS THAT NOT ONE OF THE --

GAY>> A LOT OF MONEY. A LOT OF MONEY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $46 MILLION DOLLARS. THAT'S BECAUSE MANY ADMINISTRATIVE POSITIONS WILL NO LONGER EXIST. MANY DEPARTMENTS DOWN IN THE CENTRAL OFFICE NO LONGER WILL EXIST.

WARREN>> WHAT ABOUT THE CHARTER SCHOOLS? THE MAGNET PROGRAMS? THE LEARN REFORM SCHOOLS?

GAY>> THESE ARE PROGRAMS THAT ALREADY HAVE HAD SOME SORT OF REFORM AND RESTRUCTURING. WELL, HE FEELS THAT THEY SHOULD BE SCRUTINIZED TOO. IF THEIR PROGRAMS ARE WORKING AND WE SEE SOME DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE SAYING THAT THE ACHIEVEMENT IS THERE, LEAVE THEM ALONE. BUT SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS DON'T HAVE THAT. THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SHOW FOR IT. SO HE SAYS, IN THOSE CASES, MAYBE THEY NEED TO BE REWORKED.

WARREN>> TOUGH GUY.

VAL>> HE IS SHAKING THINGS UP. GAY YEE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW, IF YOU MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH THIS DOCTOR, BRING YOUR WALLET BECAUSE HE DOESN'T TAKE INSURANCE. HOW DOES HE FEEL ABOUT HIS CASH-ONLY PRACTICE?

>> I SAID, AS MARTIN LUTHER KING DID, "FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST. THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I'M FREE AT LAST." I'M LIBERATED. I FELT LIKE A GREAT WEIGHT HAD BEEN TAKEN OFF MY SHOULDERS.

VAL>> THAT'S TOMORROW AT 7:00 RIGHT HERE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

WARREN>> THE PALOS VERDES PENINSULA HAS BREATHTAKING SCENERY, BUT JUST OFFSHORE FROM THAT RUGGED COASTLINE IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARD WORSE THAN THE OIL SLICK LEFT BY THE EXXON VALDEZ. IT'S THE WORLD'S LARGEST DEPOSIT OF THE PESTICIDE, DDT.

VAL>> THE DDT IS THE RESULT OF A CHEMICAL COMPANY DUMPING RESIDUE INTO THE SEWER SYSTEM FOR TWO DECADES. THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY HAS NOW PROPOSED A CLEAN-UP PLAN, BUT IT'S BOTH EXPERIMENTAL AND CONTROVERSIAL. WE LEARN MORE ABOUT IT IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

WARREN>> JOINING US NOW WITH MORE IS MARK GOLD, WHO IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF "HEAL THE BAY". GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

MARK GOLD>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

WARREN>> THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL PROGRAM. IT'S GOING TO COST $5 MILLION DOLLARS JUST TO SEE IF IT WORKS. THEY'RE GOING TO BE DUMPING SAND OUT OF SHIPS 200 FEET DOWN INTO THE WATER TO TRY TO COVER UP THIS DDT. IS THAT A GOOD IDEA?

MARK GOLD>> WELL, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW, WHICH IS WHY IT'S A PILOT PROJECT AND WHY THEY'RE DOING A MAJOR EXPERIMENT. THERE'S BEEN A SUPER FUND ACTION, A TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE, I'M ONE OF MANY MEMBERS WHO SIT ON THAT COMMITTEE, THE ONLY ENVIRONMENTAL REP, AND WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS LITERALLY FOR THREE YEARS. THERE'S BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF DISAGREEMENT ON WHETHER OR NOT TO CAP LITERALLY AN EIGHT SQUARE MILE CONTAMINATED AREA OR TO SOMETHING LIKE A PILOT. AFTER A GREAT DEAL OF DEBATE, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY DIDN'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING, YOU CAN IMAGINE, THOSE WERE THE DEFENDANTS. AFTER ALL THAT, THEY'VE DECIDED TO DO AN EXPERIMENTAL CAPPING PROJECT AND REALLY GET AN IDEA OF WHETHER OR NOT CAPPING WOULD ACTUALLY WORK OUT THERE.

WARREN>> AND QUICKLY, THE DEFENDANTS -- THIS IS ALL COMING ABOUT BECAUSE OF A COURT CASE AND THE DEFENDANTS ARE THE MONTROSE CHEMICAL COMPANY AND OTHERS WHICH ACTUALLY MANUFACTURE DDT AND CAUSED IT THEN, BY DUMPING IT INTO THE LOS ANGELES RIVER, TO END UP WHERE IT IS NOW.

MARK GOLD>> YEAH, IT'S BASICALLY A DDT AND PCB CASE AND IT'S EITHER MANUFACTURE OR USE OF THOSE DIFFERENT CONTAMINANTS. THEY END UP PASSING THROUGH THE SEWER SYSTEM. MORE THAN 1,700 TONS IN A TWENTY-FIVE YEAR PERIOD AND THERE'S ALMOST 100 TONS STILL ON THE SHELF TODAY.

VAL>> MARK, WE HAVE A MAP THAT HELPS EXPLAINS THIS TO PEOPLE. MAYBE YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THEY HOPE TO ACHIEVE. IT IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL. THE DARK GREEN AREA IS THE AREA OF CONTAMINATION, THE LIGHT GREEN AREA IS THE INTENSE CONTAMINATION OF DDT AND THOSE FOUR LITTLE BLACK RECTANGLES ARE THE CAPS. NOW, COMMON SENSE TO ME SAYS, IF THEY'RE DROPPING ALL THIS SAND DOWN 200 FEET TO THE OCEAN FLOOR, AREN'T THERE CURRENTS AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT ARE JUST GOING TO SWEEP THE SAND AWAY? IT COULD ACTUALLY STAY PUT?

MARK GOLD>> WELL, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED. THERE'S BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF CAPPING PROJECTS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD FOR CONTAMINANTS. IT'S USUALLY IN HARBORS AND IN MUCH, MUCH SHALLOWER WATERS --

VAL>> SHALLOWER WATERS, YEAH.

MARK GOLD>> -- AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE TESTED THROUGH THIS IS HOW DO YOU PLACE THE SEDIMENT IN AN ACCURATE WAY SO YOU'RE ACTUALLY GETTING THE RIGHT CAP THICKNESS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DDT DOESN'T GET --

VAL>> AND THE THICKNESS CAN BE ANYWHERE FROM LIKE SIXTEEN INCHES UP TO ABOUT EIGHTEEN INCHES? THEY'RE GOING TO TRY VARIOUS DEPTHS?

MARK GOLD>> SOMEWHERE AROUND FIFTEEN OR SIXTEEN INCHES ALL THE WAY UP TO ACTUALLY A FOOT AND A HALF. THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY, I MIGHT ADD, HAS BEEN PUSHING AND WILL STILL PUSH FOR TRYING AT LEAST ONE AREA FOR A THREE-FOOT CAP BECAUSE THAT'S USUALLY WHAT YOU SEE IN MOST HARBOR AREAS.

WARREN>> HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT WHEN THE SAND HITS THE DDT IT WON'T JUST SEND IT ALL OVER THE PLACE AND --

VAL>> DISBURSE IT?

WARREN>> -- DISBURSE IT, RIGHT. CAUSE MORE POLLUTION THAN YOU'VE ALREADY GOT?

MARK GOLD>> WELL, AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEING BROUGHT UP A LOT BY THE DEFENDANTS AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF MONEY AT STAKE AT THIS POINT. THEY'VE ALREADY PUT IN MORE THAN $60 MILLION DOLLARS IN LITIGATION AND SCIENTIFIC COSTS.

WARREN>> BUT THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT, MIGHTN'T THEY?

MARK GOLD>> THAT'S WHY WE'RE, AGAIN, DOING A PILOT PROJECT AND THE EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT. I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO DUMP EVERYTHING AT ONCE IN ONE DAY AND THEN SEE WHAT HAPPENS. THEY'RE BASICALLY GOING TO STUDY THE PROJECT AS IT GOES AND SEE DOES THIS WORK OR DOES IT NOT. BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, IF THE CAPPING PROJECT ISN'T GOING TO WORK OFF THE PALOS VERDES SHELF, THEN BASICALLY THE ANSWER IS TO DO NOTHING.

VAL>> THERE'S ALSO A USC PROFESSOR WHO SAID, OKAY, YOU MIGHT BE SOMEWHAT SUCCESSFUL IN THE EXPERIMENTAL PHASE, BUT TWO OR THREE YEARS FROM NOW, ANOTHER EL NINO COMES ALONG AND CHANGES THE OCEAN CURRENTS AND THE CLIMATE AND YOUR SUCCESS WILL LITERALLY GET SWEPT AWAY.

MARK GOLD>> YOU KNOW, THE PALOS VERDES SHELF IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE MOST STUDIED AREAS OF THE OCEAN IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. PEOPLE HAVE LOOKED AT THAT AREA LITERALLY FOR DECADES, MOSTLY BECAUSE THE SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT DISCHARGES OFF THERE. THERE WAS A BIG FIGHT -- IT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS "HEAL THE BAY" GOT FOUNDED OVER -- TO GET THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES TO UPGRADE THEIR SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT, THE LA COUNTY SANITATION DISTRICT. SO THAT AREA HAS BEEN VERY, VERY WELL STUDIED DURING NUMEROUS EL NINO EVENTS AND THE SORT OF THING THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT HAS NOT OCCURRED YET AND THINK ABOUT ALL THE STORMS WE'VE HAD IN THE LAST TWO DECADES.

WARREN>> WHAT ABOUT THE POLLUTION ITSELF? HOW DANGEROUS IS IT? WHAT'S HAPPENING AS A RESULT OF HAVING THIS DDT LYING THERE ON EIGHT SQUARE MILES OF OCEAN BOTTOM?

MARK GOLD>> WELL, THE ECOLOGICAL IMPACTS OBVIOUSLY DURING THE 60'S ARE VERY, VERY WELL KNOWN AND LUCKILY THE CALIFORNIA BROWN PELICAN HAS BEEN A MIRACULOUS RECOVERY. WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE SAME SORT OF RECOVERY ON THE BALD EAGLE AND THE PEREGRINE FALCON LOCALLY.

WARREN>> THIS IS BECAUSE THE DDT CAUSES A WEAKENING OF THE SHELLS OF THE BIRDS?

MARK GOLD>> RIGHT. IT'S A REPRODUCTIVE FAILURE ISSUE. BUT WE'VE ALSO SEEN, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE ISSUES OUR ORGANIZATION'S BEEN MOST INVOLVED IN, IS THAT FISH, WHITE CROAKER MOST NOTABLY, SOLD AS KINGFISH LARGELY IN THE ASIAN COMMUNITIES, IS SOLD AND IT'S VERY, VERY CONTAMINATED WITH DDT AND LESS WITH PCBS. THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT HAS NOT BEEN SOLVED AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE SOLVED.

WARREN>> THIS IS REALLY DANGEROUS. IT'S IN THE FOOD CHAIN AND IT AFFECTS EVERYBODY.

VAL>> AND IT'S BEING CONSUMED BY HUMANS RIGHT HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

MARK GOLD>> ABSOLUTELY. WE DID A STUDY TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO WHERE WE WENT TO LITERALLY A DOZEN DIFFERENT ASIAN COMMUNITY MARKETS. WE FOUND WHITE CROAKER SOLD AS KINGFISH FOR ABOUT $1.80 A POUND AND WE FOUND DDT LEVELS THAT WERE THROUGH THE ROOF.

VAL>> NOW WHY DO YOU SAY, IF THIS DOESN'T WORK, THE BEST THING IS JUST TO LEAVE IT BE?

MARK GOLD>> IT'S MOSTLY BECAUSE THE OTHER OPTIONS BASICALLY DON'T EXIST. IF YOU WERE TO BASICALLY DREDGE IT ALL OUT --

VAL>> RIGHT.

MARK GOLD>> -- THAT WOULD BE THE WORST POSSIBLE THING. YOU WOULD HAVE HORRIBLE RE-SUSPENSION OF CONTAMINANTS AND DEFINITELY THE DDT WOULD GET INTO THE FOOD CHAIN.

WARREN>> YOU'D ALSO HAVE EIGHTY SQUARE MILES WORTH OF THIS STUFF THAT YOU'D HAVE TO GET RID OF SOMEPLACE ELSE.

MARK GOLD>> ABSOLUTELY. AND YOU CAN IMAGINE THE COST OF THAT WOULD JUST BE ABSOLUTELY ASTRONOMICAL.

VAL>> BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, IF THIS DOESN'T WORK, THERE IS NO OTHER PLAN?

MARK GOLD>> THAT'S THE UNFORTUNATE TRUTH OF WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW AND THAT'S WHY THIS PILOT NEEDS TO GET DONE AND IT NEEDS TO GET DONE SOON.

WARREN>> AND IF THE PILOT PROVES SUCCESSFUL, THEN THE COMPANIES THAT ARE DEFENDANTS IN THIS SUIT WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE WHOLE PROJECT?

MARK GOLD>> WELL, THAT REMAINS FOR THE COURTS TO DECIDE, BUT THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WHAT EPA IS TRYING TO GET DONE.

WARREN>> OKAY. MARK GOLD, THANKS A LOT.

VAL>> WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO SOME CONCLUSION ON THIS, WE HOPE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MARK GOLD>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

VAL>> WELL, TELL US WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE PLAN TO CAP THE DDT DEPOSIT, OR ANY OTHER ISSUE WE COVER HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US. WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

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WARREN>> PATT MORRISON HAS IMPECCABLE RADAR AND SHE HAS DETECTED A PARADIGM SHIFT AT THE MAGIC KINGDOM, IN TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT>> FOR MORE THAN FORTY YEARS, FROM THE COLD WAR TO GLOBAL WARMING, FROM HOWDY DOODY TO SOUTHPARK, FROM ROTARY DIALS TO THE INTERNET, ONE THING HAS STOOD FAST. NO FACIAL HAIR ON DISNEY THEME PARK WORKERS. NEVER MIND THAT WALT DISNEY HIMSELF HAD A MOUSTACHE LIKE THE KIND YOU SEE IN FRED ASTAIRE MOVIES SPORTED BY THE GUY WHO LOSES THE GIRL TO CLEAN-SHAVEN FRED. WALT WAS A LAW UNTO HIMSELF. FOR EVERYONE ELSE, NO BEARDS, NO MOUSTACHES.

BUT NOW A BOOMING ECONOMY HAS ACHIEVED WHAT SOCIAL UPHEAVAL COULD NOT. GOOD WORKERS ARE SO HARD TO COME BY THAT, FROM ANAHEIM TO ORLANDO, DISNEY IS REPORTEDLY HAVING TO HIRE MEN WITH MOUSTACHES. TO APPRECIATE HOW REVOLUTIONARY THIS IS, UNDERSTAND THAT IT WASN'T UNTIL 1994 THAT FEMALE PARK WORKERS COULD WEAR EYELINER OR EYESHADOW AND BALDING MEN WERE ALLOWED TO WEAR TOUPEES.

I'VE ALWAYS SURMISED THAT DISNEY'S PARKS WERE KEPT LIKE EISENHOWER ADMINISTRATION TIME WARPS NOT ONLY FOR ATMOSPHERE, BUT IN CASE WALT HIMSELF HAD BEEN CRYOGENICALLY PRESERVED, AS LEGEND HAS IT. THAT WAY, WHEN THEY THAWED HIM OUT, HE WOULDN'T DIE ALL OVER AGAIN, THIS TIME FROM CULTURE SHOCK.

THERE IS ANOTHER ASPECT OF EVERY STATE AMUSEMENT PARK THAT'S ALSO FROZEN IN TIME, A FAR LESS FRIVOLOUS ONE. AFTER SEVERAL SERIOUS ACCIDENTS AND EVEN DEATHS, THE STATE ENACTED THE CALIFORNIA PERMANENT AMUSEMENT RIDE SAFETY ACT, THE FIRST TIME THE THEME PARK INDUSTRY HAS BEEN REGULATED. BUT THERE'S REGULATION, AND THERE'S REGULATION. THE INDUSTRY EVIDENTLY THINKS SAFETY INSPECTORS SHOULD ONLY CHECK THE PAPERWORK AND WATCH THE RIDES RUN. IT ALSO BELIEVES THAT HAVING TO REPORT ONLY INJURIES BEYOND ORDINARY FIRST AID MEANS ONLY DEATHS OR INJURIES SEVERE ENOUGH FOR AN OVERNIGHT HOSPITAL STAY. AND YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO BE PRACTICALLY SAWED IN HALF TO MERIT A HOSPITAL BED THESE DAYS.

BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MAY BE BIG-FOOTING THIS ISSUE. OF ALL THE CONSUMER PRODUCTS MARKETED TO CHILDREN, ONLY THEME PARK RIDES ARE NOT SUPERVISED BY THE CONSUMER PRODUCTS SAFETY COMMISSION. A BILL IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WOULD CHANGE THAT. IN THE MEANTIME, CALIFORNIA AND THE INDUSTRY MEET AGAIN THIS WEEK TO HASH OUT DETAILS OF THE NEW SAFETY LAW. BUT IF THE DAY HAS COME WHEN A DISNEY WORKER CAN WEAR A MOUSTACHE, IT'S MORE THAN TIME TO BEARD THE LION OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

VAL>> THANK YOU, PATT.

WELL, MOST WESTERN COUNTRIES CELEBRATE IT IN JANUARY. THE CHINESE CELEBRATE IT IN FEBRUARY. AND NOW WE'RE HERE IN MID-MARCH RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOROUZ, THE IRANIAN NEW YEAR.

WARREN>> THE WORD "NOROUZ" MEANS "NEW DAY" IN FARSI, THE LANGUAGE OF IRAN. IT REFERS TO MARCH 19, THE BEGINNING OF THE SOLAR YEAR. WE'RE LOOKING AT THE CUSTOMS AND RITUALS OF THE IRANIAN NEW YEAR TONIGHT, IN PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IS HOME TO SOME 600,000 IRANIANS. MOST OF THE MARK NOROUZ WITH A THIRTEEN-DAY CELEBRATION DATING BACK TO ANCIENT PERSIA. IT INCLUDES SPENDING THE FINAL DAY OUTDOORS ENJOYING MUSIC AND FOOD AND TRADITIONAL GAMES.

VAL>> AND HERE TO TELL US MORE ABOUT THE IRANIAN NEW YEAR IS MITRA MAKBULEH, AN AUTHOR, PHD, TEACHER AND SOCIAL SCIENTIST. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> THANK YOU. IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE. HAPPY NOROUZ.

WARREN>> IT SOUNDS LIKE FUN. THANK YOU.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> IT'S GREAT FUN.

VAL>> AND THESE ARE ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS ITEMS, ALL THAT ARE PART OF NOROUZ. MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN -- SHALL WE START PERHAPS WITH THESE BEAUTIFUL EGGS?

WARREN>> GORGEOUS EGGS.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO GO INTO DETAILS, BUT I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST TO TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT EACH ONE OF THESE. THE TRADITIONAL PERSIAN NEW YEAR SET-UP INCLUDES SEVEN ITEMS. OF COURSE, THE SEVEN IMMEDIATELY BRINGS UP OTHER SEVENS WE KNOW ABOUT.

WARREN>> SURE.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> NOROUZ IS ABOUT THE REDEMPTION OF NATURE FROM THE COLDER WINTER --

VAL>> SPRING.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> -- AND THE REDEMPTION OF HUMAN NATURE. SO THIS IS THE BEAUTY OF --

WARREN>> WHAT ABOUT THE EGGS? START WITH THE EGGS.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> NOW THE EGGS. WHAT DO THEY MEAN? NEW BIRTH. IN NATURE, OF COURSE, SPRING IS THE BEGINNING OF NEW BIRTH. THE NEW BIRTH OF NATURE. SO IT IS WITH US. WITHIN OUR SOUL, WE HAVE THAT POSSIBILITY. EVERY SPRING, WE'RE GIVEN A NEW CHANCE FOR A NEW BIRTH. 

NOW WE GO TO THE APPLE. THE PERSIANS ARE PROBABLY THE FIRST ONES TO RECOGNIZE "AN APPLE A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY".

WARREN>> THIS GOES BACK 3,000 YEARS, SO THEY'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR A LONG TIME.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> YES. THE HISTORY OF NOROUZ, ALONG WITH THE CHINESE NEW YEAR AND THE JEWISH NEW YEAR, IS ONE OF THE MOST ANCIENT OF ALL THE NEW YEAR CELEBRATIONS. SOME PEOPLE SAY IT GOES EVEN WAY BACK BEFORE ZOROASTRIANISM. I MEAN, IT GOES TO MITRAISM, WHICH IS MY OWN NAME, MITRA, BUT SOME PEOPLE SAY IT EVEN GOES BEFORE MITRAISM TO THE TIMES OF ARCADIANS AND SUMMARIANS AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT. IT'S A CELEBRATION OF NATURE.

WARREN>> OKAY. WE'VE HAD NEW BIRTH, WE'VE KEPT THE DOCTOR AWAY WITH THE APPLE, WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH THE GOLDFISH?

MITRA MAKBULEH>> THE GOLDFISH REPRESENTS THE LIFE FORCE, THE MAGNIFICENT FIRE. IT ALWAYS HAS TO BE THIS COLOR. IT CANNOT BE ANY OTHER COLOR.

VAL>> IT HAS TO BE A GOLD FISH?

MITRA MAKBULEH>> YES. ALSO, IT REPRESENTS PISCES. YOU SEE, SPRING COMES OUT OF PISCES. ARIES, WHICH IS THE MONTH OF APRIL, IT REPRESENTS FIRE. IT'S A FIRE SIGN. SO THE GOLDFISH IS A FIRE SYMBOL AND THE WATER REPRESENTS THE SIGN OF PISCES AS WELL BECAUSE IT'S A WATER SIGN. SO THE COMBINATION OF THESE TWO REPRESENTS THE DIVINE EMANATIONS, THE BEAUTY OF THE DIVINE FORCES THAT ARE OPERATING IN NATURE AND ALSO WITHIN OUR NATURE.

WARREN>> AND THE ZODIAC IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ALL OF THIS?

MITRA MAKBULEH>> ALL OF THEM. YES, ALL ANCIENT CULTURES HAD THE ZODIAC AS ONE OF THEIR FOCUSES. WHEN WE GET TO THE NUMBER TWELVE, AS YOU KNOW, THE PERSIANS CELEBRATE TWELVE DAYS. ON THE THIRTEENTH DAY, WHICH IS IN PERSIAN CULTURE, SUPPOSED TO BE A BAD DAY. NUMBER THIRTEEN IN THE AMERICAN CULTURE AS WELL --

VAL>> JUST LIKE UNLUCKY?

MITRA MAKBULEH>> -- EXCEPT, AGAIN, FOR THE CHINESE AND THE JEWS, THIRTEEN IS A GOOD NUMBER. SO IT'S A VERY FASCINATING THING. THE NUMBER TWELVE IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE ZODIAC AS WELL AS THE SYMBOLOGY OF JACOB AND HIS TWELVE SONS AND JESUS AND HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES AND YOU HAVE THE TWELVE KNIGHTS OF THE ROUNDTABLE AND THE THIRTEENTH ONE ALWAYS GETS TO HAVE THAT SEAT THAT IS VERY PERILOUS.

WARREN>> EVERYBODY GETS TO HAVE A GLASS OF WINE.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING STORY. IN THE ANCIENT TIMES, THE STORY GOES THAT THE SEVEN ELEMENTS THEY USED TO SET UP INCLUDED WINE. BUT WHEN THE MUSLIM ARABS TOOK OVER IRAN, BECAUSE WINE WAS PROHIBITED BY THE PROPHET, THEY CHANGED IT AND THEY USED OTHER SYMBOLOGY. BUT THE ZOROASTRIANS AND THE JEWS, OF COURSE, ALL RELIGIONS IN IRAN CELEBRATE NOROUZ BECAUSE IT'S REALLY A CELEBRATION OF NATURE AND, AS I SAID, OF HUMAN NATURE. IT GOES BEYOND RELIGIONS.

WARREN>> WE'RE RUNNING SHORT OF TIME. LET'S SEE THE HYACINTHS AND TELL US WHAT THE HYACINTHS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> THE HYACINTH, OF COURSE, REPRESENTS ALL THE BEAUTY, MAGNIFICENCE AND THE FABULOUS SMELL. I MEAN, IT'S ONE OF THE MOST TRADITIONAL FLOWERS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS CELEBRATION AND EACH ONE OF US, OF COURSE, HAS THE POSSIBILITY OF SMELLING LIKE THAT AND THE FRAGRANCE WE CAN GIVE TO THE WORLD.

WARREN>> A CANDLE AND A MIRROR?

MITRA MAKBULEH>> YES. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL AND, TO ME, ONE OF MY FAVORITE SYMBOLOGIES. THE CANDLE, AGAIN, REPRESENTS THE LIGHT OF THE DIVINE. THE LIGHT THAT WE SEE AROUND US, THE LIGHT OF THE SUN, BUT ALSO AGAIN THE LIGHT WITHIN OUR SOULS. THIS IS WITHIN OUR NATURE WE HAVE THIS LIGHT, WHICH WE NEED TO REFLECT IN THE MIRROR OF THE WORLD. WE ARE HERE TO GIVE --

VAL>> TO REFLECT GOD'S LIGHT.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> -- TO REFLECT GOD'S LIGHT IN THE WORLD. IT'S JUST BEAUTIFUL.

VAL>> THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL THOUGHT.

WARREN> SWEET GRASS.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> THIS SYMBOLOGY, AGAIN, HAS TO DO WITH THE REJUVENATION OF NATURE. IN ALL PERSIAN FAMILIES, THEY GROW THIS ABOUT SEVEN DAYS -- AGAIN THE NUMBER SEVEN COMES UP -- BEFORE THE NEW YEAR, THEY BEGIN TO GROW THIS. THEN ON THE THIRTEENTH DAY, EVERYBODY GOES OUTDOORS. YOU MUST BE OUTDOORS. OTHERWISE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE BAD LUCK, ACCORDING TO PERSIAN STORY.

WARREN>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE BAD LUCK IF WE DON'T SHOW THIS MAGNIFICENT FLORAL ARRANGEMENT BACK HERE.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> LET ME GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. THIS ARRANGEMENT WAS PROVIDED FOR US BY A LOVELY LADY, [GILA GILALA]. I WANT TO GIVE CREDIT TO HER BECAUSE IT'S JUST ONE OF THE MOST MAGNIFICENT ARRANGEMENTS I'VE EVER SEEN. IT HAS ALL THE TRADITIONAL SEVEN ELEMENTS ON IT.

WARREN>> I SEE AN APPLE, I SEE EGGS --

MITRA MAKBULEH>> ALL THE SEVEN ELEMENTS, WARREN, THEY ALL START WITH 'S'. SEVEN S'S.

VAL>> YES, THAT THE HAFT-SINN, THE SEVEN S'S.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> YOU'VE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK.

VAL>> I LEARNED SOMETHING.

WARREN>> THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE. GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> THANK YOU. ON ONE FOOT. THAT'S ALL WE COULD SAY.

WARREN>> HAPPY NEW YEAR. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

MITRA MAKBULEH>> HAPPY NOROUZ TO ALL YOUR VIEWERS.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WARREN>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, IS THE DRUG WAR TURNING COLOMBIA INTO ANOTHER EL SALVADOR? WE'LL TALK ABOUT NARCOTICS TRAFFIC, POLITICAL INSURGENCY AND HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. THAT'S TOMORROW.

KCRW 89.9 FM, WHICH WAY LA
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REBROADCAST AT 7:00 P.M.

VAL>> FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAPPY NOROUZ AND HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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