03/28/00

LC000328

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> THERE IS ONE DOCTOR IN TOWN WHO'S HAD ENOUGH OF THE RED TAPE, THE BUREAUCRACY AND THE PAPERWORK.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THIS IS A CASH-ONLY OFFICE. NO MEDICARE, NO HMOS, NO HEALTH INSURANCE OF ANY KIND IS ACCEPTED HERE. ONLY U.S. CURRENCY, A PERSONAL CHECK OR YOUR FAVORITE CREDIT CARD WILL DO. AND IF DR. RUBIN'S PATIENTS HAVE NEVER FELT BETTER, THAT GOES DOUBLE FOR HIM.

DR. HERBERT RUBIN>> FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST. THANK GOD, ALMIGHTY, I'M FREE AT LAST.

VAL>> HORROR STORIES ARE SURFACING ABOUT OVERCROWDING AT LA'S ANIMAL SHELTERS. DOGS ATTACKING EACH OTHER AND THEIR KEEPERS. WE HEAR FROM THE CITY COUNCILMAN WHO'S OUT TO CHANGE THESE DEPLORABLE CONDITIONS, IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

WARREN>> AND THE CITY OF THE PHARAOHS RETURNS TO LIFE IN A DISPLAY OF THE TREASURES OF ANCIENT EGYPT. WE'LL PREVIEW THE NEW EXHIBIT, "PHARAOHS OF THE SUN".

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR TUESDAY, MARCH 28, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING CORPORATIONS AND FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

GTE
A COMPANY COMMITTED TO TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXCELLENCE AND AN OPEN DIALOGUE AMONG ALL PEOPLE.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, BACK TO THE FUTURE. REMEMBER THE DAYS WHEN YOU WENT TO THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE, EXPLAINED WHAT AILED YOU, THEN PAID FOR YOUR TREATMENT IN CASH? THAT SCENARIO IS BEING PLAYED OUT AGAIN IN THE OFFICE OF ONE BEVERLY HILLS PHYSICIAN.

VAL>> BUT WHILE MANY DOCTORS AND PATIENTS ARE CHEERING THIS CASH-ONLY APPROACH TO MEDICINE, IT DOES HAVE ITS CRITICS. SO IS REFUSING HMO AND OTHER MEDICAL INSURANCE A WAY TO BRING BACK THE GOOD OLD DAYS? PHILIP BRUCE HAS THIS REPORT.

PHILIP>> IN THE WORLD OF MEDICINE, HERBERT RUBIN IS A RARE BIRD. HE'S A HAPPY DOCTOR AND IT SHOWS IN THE WAY HE DEALS WITH HIS PATIENTS.

DR. HERBERT RUBIN>> YOUR BLOOD TEST CAME BACK MUCH BETTER, BLOOD COUNT IS UP, SO THE IRON AND THE VITAMINS ARE WORKING.

PHILIP>> AND ANTONIO SANTORO IS A HAPPY PATIENT. LAST JANUARY, DR. RUBIN, A GASTROENTEROLOGIST, FOUND A TUMOR ON SANTORO'S COLON ANOTHER PHYSICIAN HAD MISSED. RUBIN ORDERED SURGERY TO REMOVE THE GROWTH AND STOP THE INTERNAL BLEEDING AND NOW ANTONIO IS AS GOOD AS NEW.

ANTONIO SANTORO>> IT WAS AN ADVANCED TUMOR, SO HE SAVED ME. I WAS BLEEDING TO DEATH.

PHILIP>> DOCTORS SAVE PATIENTS EVERY DAY, BUT THE THING THAT SEPARATES DR. RUBIN FROM MOST OF THE REST IS THE WAY HE RUNS HIS BEVERLY HILLS PRACTICE. THIS IS A CASH-ONLY OFFICE. NO MEDICARE, NO HMOS, NO HEALTH INSURANCE OF ANY KIND IS ACCEPTED HERE. ONLY U.S. CURRENCY, A PERSONAL CHECK OR YOUR FAVORITE CREDIT CARD WILL DO. AND IF DR. RUBIN'S PATIENTS HAVE NEVER FELT BETTER, THAT GOES DOUBLE FOR HIM.

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU SAID, "NO MORE INSURANCE"?

DR. HERBERT RUBIN>> I SAID, AS MARTIN LUTHER KING DID, "FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST. THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I'M FREE AT LAST." I'M LIBERATED. I FELT LIKE A GREAT WEIGHT HAD BEEN TAKEN OFF MY SHOULDERS.

PHILIP>> THE WEIGHT OFF DR. RUBIN'S SHOULDERS IS THE 800-POUND GORILLA OF MANAGED HEALTH CARE, THE HMOS, PPOS, AND OTHER ASSORTED INSURANCE PROGRAMS THAT, FOR MOST AMERICANS, PROVIDE THE BASIC HEALTH CARE SAFETY NET. GO TO JUST ABOUT ANY HOSPITAL OR DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND YOU'LL HEAR HORROR STORIES ABOUT HOW THEY'RE DROWNING IN INSURANCE PAPERWORK AND GOING BROKE TRYING TO SURVIVE ON THE MEASLY MONEY HMOS OFFER FOR TREATMENT. AFTER YEARS OF IT, RUBIN FINALLY GOT FED UP AND TOLD MEDICARE AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO GET LOST.

DR. HERBERT RUBIN>> WELL, IT WAS THE HUMILIATION OF HAVING TO DEAL WITH CLERKS AND BUREAUCRACIES AND KIBITZERS AND SECOND-GUESSERS AND PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO PAY ME, FRANKLY.

PHILIP>> NOW, IF YOU WANT TO SEE DR. RUBIN, YOU'LL NEED $100 TO START FOR THE OFFICE VISIT AND THE METER'S RUNNING, DEPENDING ON THE KIND OF TREATMENT PRESCRIBED. WHAT YOU GET IS A LEVEL OF PERSONAL ATTENTION MANY DOCTORS CAN'T AFFORD TO PROVIDE. ANTONIO SANTORO SAYS HIS PREVIOUS DOCTOR, THE ONE WHO MISSED HIS TUMOR, ALWAYS HAD A CROWDED WAITING ROOM AND NEVER SPENT ANY TIME WITH HIM.

SO YOU THINK YOU HAD A PROBLEM EVEN BACK THEN?

ANTONIO SANTORO>> I HAD A PROBLEM FOR A LONG, LONG TIME --

PHILIP>> AND THAT DOCTOR DIDN'T SPOT IT?

ANTONIO SANTORO>> -- AND NOBODY FIND OUT. I MEAN, NOBODY REALLY CHECKED INTO ME TO SEE LET ME DO SOMETHING TO REALLY SEE INSIDE.

PHILIP>> THEY DIDN'T DO TESTS ON YOU?

ANTONIO SANTORO>> NO, NO, NOTHING. THEY GIVE YOU A FEW PILLS. THEY DON'T TALK TO YOU, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU DOING? THEY DON'T SIT WITH THE PATIENT, BUT THAT'S WHAT I FOUND DIFFERENT WITH DR. RUBIN. COMPLETELY I FELT HE CARES FOR ME. HE CARES FOR ME.

PHILIP>> IT MAY AS SIMPLE AS THE OLD SAYING, "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR", BUT THAT RAISES A QUESTION. HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN REALLY AFFORD TO PAY FOR DR. RUBIN OR ANOTHER PHYSICIAN LIKE HIM WHEN THEY GET SICK?

THOMAS ROSENTHAL>> THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAN REALLY AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN HEALTH CARE AND PAY CASH FOR IT PROBABLY IS ONLY ONE OR TWO PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. MANY OF THEM HAPPEN TO LIVE WITHIN FIVE MILES OF WHERE WE'RE SITTING RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT'S NOT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION.

PHILIP>> DR. THOMAS ROSENTHAL RUNS A UCLA MEDICAL GROUP. HE'S WELL AWARE OF THE PITFALLS OF MANAGED HEALTH CARE AND READILY ADMITS THAT LOTS OF DOCTORS HATE HMOS AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, SOMETIMES WITH DUE CAUSE. TO THOSE FRUSTRATED PHYSICIANS, HE SAYS DR. RUBIN MAY SEEM LIKE A HERO.

THOMAS ROSENTHAL>> AND I IMAGINE THAT, IF YOU POLLED, YOU KNOW, 1,000 DOCTORS GENERALLY ACROSS CALIFORNIA, YOU WOULD PROBABLY GET A FAIRLY HIGH MAJORITY OF THEM AT LEAST APPLAUDING HIM AND WISHING PERHAPS THAT THEY WERE IN A POSITION TO DO WHAT HE'S DONE.

PHILIP>> BUT ROSENTHAL SAYS THE CURE FOR WHAT AILS MANAGED HEALTH CARE ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS TELLING ALL THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO TAKE A HIKE. FOR ONE THING, HE SAYS, THEY'VE HELPED STOP DOCTORS AND HOSPITALS FROM GOUGING PATIENTS WITH UNNECESSARY TREATMENT.

THOMAS ROSENTHAL>> THERE ARE CERTAIN KINDS OF PROCEDURES THAT ARE BOTH EXTRAORDINARILY RISKY, HIGHLY VARIABLE IN THEIR OUTCOMES, THAT HAVE BEEN DONE, I WON'T SAY WILLY-NILLY BY DOCTORS FOR YEARS, BUT WITHOUT A LOT OF OVERSIGHT.

PHILIP>> AND DONE FOR THE MONEY?

THOMAS ROSENTHAL>> I DON'T WANT TO SAY DONE EXPLICITLY FOR THE MONEY, BUT DONE BECAUSE THOSE DOCTORS END UP WITH A PRACTICE STYLE THAT SAYS -- AND AGAIN I THINK IT'S ALSO PARTLY BECAUSE THE PUBLIC HAS COME TO EXPECT -- DOING SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN NOT DOING SOMETHING.

PHILIP>> BUT MANY PATIENTS WILL TELL YOU INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE A STYLE OF THEIR OWN, THAT DOING NOTHING IS CHEAPER THAN DOING SOMETHING. AND DR. RUBIN SAYS TOO MANY DOCTORS ARE CAUGHT IN THAT TRAP.

HERBERT RUBIN>> THEY GET A CHECK AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MONTH WHICH COVERS THEIR POPULATION OF PATIENTS. IT'S CALLED CAPITATION. IT'S A PERNICIOUS SYSTEM OF REVERSE INCENTIVES WHERE THE DOCTOR IS REWARDED ONLY IF HE KEEPS THE MONEY AND DOESN'T SPEND IT BY TAKING CARE OF PEOPLE.

PHILIP>> EVEN THOUGH 72-YEAR-OLD BILL DANIELS MADE HIS LIVING SELLING INSURANCE, HE'S NOW GLADLY WILLING TO PAY DR. RUBIN CASH FOR THE KIND OF PERSONAL SERVICE HE GETS. BUT IT WASN'T ALWAYS SO, AT LEAST NOT AT FIRST, WHEN DANIELS WAS TOLD HIS MEDICARE WOULD NO LONGER BE ACCEPTED AS PAYMENT.

BILL DANIELS>> ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT WAS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT IN THAT I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY HIS FEE AND THEN COLLECT THE INSURANCE MYSELF. THAT WAS A LITTLE SCARY.

PHILIP>> DANIELS LEFT, BUT LIKE MANY OTHERS, HE CAME BACK TO DR. RUBIN, WHO CALLS IT A CASE OF THE FREE MARKET DOING WHAT IT DOES BEST, ALLOWING A PERSON TO BUY WHAT HE NEEDS.

DR. HERBERT RUBIN>> LIKE THE TELEPHONE COMPANY AND THE RENT. I HAVE TO PAY THEM JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE HAS TO PAY THEM. SO I'M IN THE MARKET AND, IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, I HAVE TO PAY THEM. WHAT A SURPRISE.

PHILIP>> BUT SOME MEDICAL EXPERTS SAY THERE'S A BIG DANGER IN THAT. AS MORE PHYSICIANS BAIL OUT OF MANAGED HEALTH CARE, THOSE LEFT IN IT WILL BE STUCK WITH AN INCREASING BURDEN THAT THREATENS TO MAKE GOOD TREATMENT AVAILABLE ONLY TO THE WELL-TO-DOS. EVEN WORSE, SOME HOSPITALS ARE STARTING TO BAIL OUT TOO.

YOU HAVE HEARD THIS ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS A CASE OF RICH DOCTORS WHO ARE MAD BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET EVEN RICHER?

DR. HERBERT RUBIN>> WELL, THIS IS AN ARGUMENT MADE BY JEALOUS DOCTORS WHO ARE TRAPPED IN A SYSTEM THAT'S FAILING THEM. THE MARKET IS SPEAKING, SO I HAVE NO PROBLEM DEBATING THEM. I'LL BE HERE AND I HAVE BEEN HERE LONG AFTER THEY'RE GONE.

WARREN>> SO IT'S NICE WORK IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT, BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IS THERE'S NOBODY AROUND TO TELL DR. RUBIN IF HE'S CHARGING TOO MUCH OR DOING SOMETHING THAT YOU REALLY DON'T NEED, NOT THAT DR. RUBIN WOULD EVER DO THAT.

PHILIP>> WELL, HE SAYS IN A FREE MARKET SYSTEM, IT'S LIKE BUYING A CAR OR ANYTHING ELSE. IF YOUR CLIENTS DON'T LIKE IT, IN HIS CASE, HIS PATIENTS, IF THEY DON'T THINK THAT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS WORTH THE MONEY, THEY WON'T PAY YOU AND THEY WON'T BE THERE.

VAL>> SO HE LOST A LOT OF PATIENTS IN THE BEGINNING AND HE GAINED SOME OF THEM BACK. HE DIDN'T GAIN ALL OF THEM BACK.

PHILIP>> NOT ALL OF THEM HAVE COME BACK BECAUSE SOME OF THEM, FRANKLY, COULDN'T AFFORD TO GO THROUGH THAT SYSTEM. AND I HAVE TO POINT OUT, THIS IS A RATHER UNIQUE SITUATION IN THAT DR. RUBIN IS IN BEVERLY HILLS WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO DO THIS. HE'S NOT SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE INSURANCE. MANY OF HIS PATIENTS STILL HAVE INSURANCE. IT'S JUST THAT THE BURDEN OF DEALING WITH IT IS NOW UP TO THE PATIENTS AND NOT UP TO HIM.

WARREN>> AND HE'S NOT GOVERNED BY ANY SORT OF CONTROLS THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANY, THE HMO, IS APPLYING?

PHILIP>> NOR DOES HE THINK HE SHOULD BE, AND LOTS OF DOCTORS ARE IN THAT SAME BOAT. THEY SAY THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE SECOND-GUESSED BY SOME PANEL 2,000 MILES AWAY.

WARREN>> OR AN ACCOUNTANT.

PHILIP>> THAT'S RIGHT. BUT, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO SAY, THE FOLKS AT UCLA TELL US THAT THIS NOTION OF INSURANCE BEAN COUNTERS DECIDING WHAT KIND OF TREATMENT YOU GET IS HIGHLY OVER-RATED, THAT IT'S MOST USUALLY DOCTORS WHO ARE MAKING THOSE CALLS AND NOT ACCOUNTANTS.

VAL>> WELL, WE'LL SEE IF THIS TREND TURNS INTO A MOVEMENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PHILIP BRUCE.

OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW, RECRUITERS FOR THE LAPD SAY BUSINESS IS BOOMING AND THE RAMPART SCANDAL IS NOT DISCOURAGING CANDIDATES.

>> I THINK THAT THEY SEE BEYOND A SCANDAL BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF DEPARTMENTS AROUND THE NATION RIGHT NOW THAT ARE VERY SCANDAL-RIDDEN.

VAL>> THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT AT 7:00.

WARREN>> CONDITIONS AT SOME LOS ANGELES CITY ANIMAL SHELTERS ARE REACHING CRISIS PROPORTIONS. UP TO TEN DOGS ARE KEPT IN KENNELS DESIGNED FOR JUST ONE. THE OVERCROWDING HAS LED TO ANIMALS ATTACKING EACH OTHER, EVEN TURNING ON SHELTER WORKERS. WE'RE EXAMINING THE PROBLEM TONIGHT AND WHAT'S TO BE DONE ABOUT IT, IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

VAL>> JOINING US NOW IS LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCILMAN, MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS, WHO SAYS THIS CRISIS IS SECOND ONLY TO THE RAMPART POLICE SCANDAL IN SCOPE AND SERIOUSNESS. THAT'S QUITE A STATEMENT TO MAKE. YOU MUST HAVE REALLY BEEN IMPRESSED AND AMAZED BY THE DEPLORABLE CONDITIONS.

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> WELL, TO SAY THE VERY LEAST, AND IT SEEMS TO ME IT'S FUNDAMENTAL TO PUBLIC HEALTH AND TO PUBLIC SAFETY. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND, WHEN LOOKING AT SHELTERS THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES AND FINDING THAT THEY ARE AT 180 PERCENT CAPACITY, THAT THIS IS A CRISIS OF RATHER SIGNIFICANT PROPORTION.

WARREN>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, 180 PERCENT CAPACITY? WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN? WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT YOU CAN HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND BETTER WHAT ALL THIS MEANS?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> WELL, LET ME JUST SAY THAT IT MEANS THE FOLLOWING. THAT WHEN YOU HAVE FIFTY-FOUR KENNELS AND HAVING TO PUT SIX DOGS IN EACH OF THEM, RESULTING IN ANIMALS ATTACKING EACH OTHER, NOT ONLY ATTACKING EACH OTHER, BUT IN MANY INSTANCES, ATTACKING THE PERSONNEL IN THE SHELTERS, YOU KNOW THAT IT IS A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE IN TERMS OF THE HUMANE TREATMENT OF THE ANIMALS. BUT MORE FUNDAMENTAL THAN THAT, THE SAFETY OF THE WORKPLACE FOR EMPLOYEES OF THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES.

WARREN>> WHY IS IT A PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEM?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> WELL, BECAUSE THESE ARE STRAY DOGS IN MANY INSTANCES THAT ARE ROUNDED UP PURSUANT TO COUNCIL ACTION BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT THEM ON THE STREETS OF LOS ANGELES. THE ISSUE IS THAT THE COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT MAKES IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THE NUMBER ONE THREAT TO THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF CHILDREN HAPPENS TO BE VICIOUS DOG BITES. NOT MUMPS, NOT MEASLES, BUT DOG BITES. AND THAT'S WHY WE TAKE THIS POSITION.

VAL>> NOW, THIS CRISIS ACTUALLY HAS BEEN BUILDING FOR A WHILE. WE DID A REPORT ON IT SEVERAL MONTHS AGO. BUT IT GOT WORSE BECAUSE OF A BILL SPONSORED AND PASSED -- SPONSORED BY TOM HAYDEN -- WHICH REQUIRED ANIMAL SHELTERS TO HOLD THE ANIMALS FOR A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME. THE INTENT WAS TO GET THEM ADOPTED, BUT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE REAL EFFECT HAS BEEN TO CROWD THESE ANIMALS INTO SHELTERS BECAUSE THERE'S SIMPLY NOT ROOM TO HOLD THEM FOR LONGER PERIODS OF TIME. IS THIS A CASE OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES? GOOD INTENTIONS WITH BAD EFFECTS?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> PRECISELY. THESE CONSEQUENCES WERE NOT ANTICIPATED, ALTHOUGH IT WAS CALLED TO THE ATTENTION OF THE LEGISLATURE THAT THIS COULD VERY WELL BE THE CASE. SO WHAT YOU HAVE IN LOS ANGELES IS A PROBLEM COMPOUNDING ITSELF PURSUANT TO THIS LEGISLATION. THE CITY COUNCIL TODAY HAS MOVED FORWARD THE PROSPECTIVE THAT WE EITHER SEEK AN EXEMPTION OR AMEND THE LEGISLATION BECAUSE TO HAVE SOME 44,000 STRAY DOGS ON THE STREETS OF LOS ANGELES ON AN ANNUAL BASIS IS JUST SIMPLY UNACCEPTABLE.

WARREN>> SO, EFFECTIVELY, BECAUSE OF THIS STATE LAW, THE CITY IS REQUIRED TO KEEP THESE DOGS, WHETHER IT HAS ADEQUATE FACILITIES FOR THEM OR NOT?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> YES. IT LENGTHENS THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE SHELTER, THEREFORE CREATING A BACKLOG. THE TERRIBLE REPORT IS THAT, IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES, SOME SEVENTY-PLUS PERCENT OF THE ANIMALS THAT ARE COLLECTED OR ROUNDED UP ARE EUTHANIZED. IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH RATE OF PUTTING ANIMALS DOWN.

WARREN>> BUT THAT WOULD HAPPEN ANYWAY, WOULD IT NOT?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> NO, NOT NECESSARILY. WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS TO REDUCE THE PET OVERPOPULATION PROBLEM BY THE NEW ORDINANCE THAT WAS ADOPTED TODAY TO SPAY AND NEUTER THESE ANIMALS. SO YOU STEM THE TIDE ON THE ONE HAND AND THEN YOU HUMANIZE THE ENVIRONMENT FOR HUMAN BEINGS AS WELL AS THE ANIMALS THEMSELVES.

VAL>> BUT THE SPAY AND NEUTERING IS GREAT, AND ALSO THERE'S THE HIGHER FEES THAT ARE GOING TO BE CHARGED TO PET OWNERS, BUT IT STILL WON'T SOLVE THE WHOLE PROBLEM. THERE SIMPLY HAS TO BE MORE SHELTERS AND MORE KENNELS BUILT, RIGHT? 

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

VAL>> ANY PROGRESS ON THAT FRONT?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> WELL, THE COUNCIL TODAY TOOK THIS UNDER SERIOUS CONSIDERATION AND WILL COME BACK IN A MATTER OF TEN DAYS. IT'S UNAVOIDABLE THAT WE HAVE TO BUILD A SEVENTH SHELTER IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES TO ACCOMMODATE THIS PROBLEM. IT'S SIMPLY OUT OF CONTROL.

WARREN>> WHAT'S THAT GOING TO COST?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE ASKED THE CITY FINANCIAL ANALYSTS TO SAY TO US AND WE HAVE TO BUDGET THOSE RESOURCES. WE CAN'T PUT CITY EMPLOYEES AT A RISK. MOST RECENTLY, ONE HAD TO BE HOSPITALIZED PURSUANT TO HAVING BEEN ATTACKED BY ONE OF THESE ANIMALS. WELL, THAT GETS INTO OTHER ISSUES OF LIABILITY AND YOU'LL HEAR REPORTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND THE OTHER SIX SHELTERS THAT THEY CANNOT CONTINUE TO OPERATE UNDER THESE CONDITIONS, THEREFORE, A THREAT TO BOTH PUBLIC HEALTH AND PUBLIC SAFETY.

WARREN>> IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE IN THE NEWS BUSINESS THAT, IF YOU DO A STORY ON ANIMALS, YOU GET A RESPONSE. PEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUT ANIMALS, --

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

WARREN>> -- MORE THAN THEY DO SOMETIMES ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> IT'S A SUBCULTURE UNTO ITSELF AND WE'VE LEARNED THAT.

WARREN>> SO YOU, THEN, OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY, I WOULD ASSUME. YOU'LL GET A LOT OF POPULAR SUPPORT TO BUILD A NEW SHELTER.

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> WELL, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THEY HAVE ALREADY COME FORWARD AND SECURED NEARLY A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS TO PUT IN PLACE TWO NEW MOBILE UNITS THAT WILL FOCUS ON SPAYING AND NEUTERING THOSE ANIMALS THAT REQUIRE IT AND AN ASSERTIVE, AGGRESSIVE EDUCATION PROGRAM. SO, YES, YOU'RE QUITE CORRECT. THIS HAS TO BE A PUBLIC, PRIVATE, COLLABORATIVE EFFORT AND WE SEE THAT HAPPENING.

VAL>> I KNOW THAT THE HEAD OF ANIMAL SERVICE FOR THE CITY, DAN KNAPP, IS VERY DEDICATED TO GETTING THE EUTHANASIA RATE WAY DOWN AND THE ADOPTION RATE WAY UP. I THINK HE CAME FROM THE BAY AREA WHERE THEY ACTUALLY HAD A VERY LOW EUTHANASIA RATE. WILL WE SEE THAT KIND OF SUCCESS HERE IN LOS ANGELES AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE, DO YOU THINK?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> WE WILL SEE IT IF WE CAUSE THIS TO BE THE PRIORITY THAT IT NEEDS TO BE, AND IT HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH OF A PRIORITY FOR THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES. IF WE ARE AGGRESSIVE ABOUT THIS, WE WILL HAVE FAVORABLE RESULTS FOR PEOPLE AND THEIR PETS.

WARREN>> OKAY. MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WARREN>> LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT LA COUNTY'S AND CITY'S ANIMAL OVERPOPULATION, OR TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT ANY OF THE OTHER REPORTS ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. HERE ARE THE WAYS THAT YOU CAN REACH US:


WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 664-4159

VAL>> THEY LIVED MORE THAN 3,000 YEARS AGO, YET FEW FIGURES CAPTURE OUR IMAGINATION LIKE THE EGYPTIAN PHARAOHS. FOLLOWING A TREND THAT INCLUDED KING TUT, THE LA COUNTY MUSEUM OF ART HAS MOUNTED A NEW EXHIBIT CALLED "PHARAOHS OF THE SUN". 

WARREN>> THIS EXHIBITION EXAMINES THE LIFE AND TIMES OF THREE OF EGYPT'S MOST PROMINENT ROYALS. PATT MORRISON EXPLORES OUR FASCINATION WITH ANCIENT EGYPT IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

PATT>> TO THE FASCINATED MODERN WORLD, TWO NAMES GLIMMER THROUGH THE THIRTY-FIVE CENTURIES SINCE THEY LIVED AND REIGNED IN ANCIENT EGYPT. NEFERTITI, THE QUEEN WHO'S BEAUTY TRANSCENDS THE MILLENNIA, AND TUTANKHAMON, THE BOY KING BURIED AMID TREASURE UNIMAGINABLE. BUT FOR SOMEONE WHO LIVED THEN, A CITIZEN OF THE EIGHTEENTH DYNASTY, THE MOST IMPORTANT AND CONTROVERSIAL NAME HE KNEW WAS AKHENATON, THE REVOLUTIONARY PHARAOH WHO ALTERED EGYPTIANS' ARTISTIC TRADITIONS AND RADICALIZED THEIR ANCIENT RELIGION.

NANCY THOMAS, YOU ARE CURATOR OF ANCIENT ART AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR HERE AT THE MUSEUM. THERE ARE VERY FEW CULTURES THAT BUILT THE WAY THE EGYPTIANS DID, THE MANIA FOR BUILDING, ALMOST. WHAT ACCOUNTS FOR IT?

NANCY THOMAS>> WELL, THEY WANTED THINGS TO ENDURE. THIS WAS PART OF THEIR RELIGION, THAT THEY WOULD LIVE FOREVER, HENCE MUMMIFICATION. AND THEY ALSO STARTED CONSTRUCTING IN STONE. THE STONE BEING A PERMANENT MATERIAL, THIS WAS THEIR CONCEPT. THAT IT WOULD WITHSTAND THE TEST OF TIME.

PATT>> ESPECIALLY IN THAT CLIMATE.

NANCY THOMAS>> EXACTLY. WITH THE DRY WEATHER, IT'S PERFECT.

PATT>> SO WHAT TURNED OUT NOT TO STAND THE TEST OF TIME WERE SOME OF THE RELIGIOUS PRECEPTS AS THEY ALTERED OVER THE YEARS. WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING SHORTLY ABOUT THAT AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE MAN WHO MADE THEM POSSIBLE.

NANCY THOMAS>> THIS BEAUTIFUL LITTLE CHALICE IS ENGRAVED WITH THE EARLY NAME OF AMENHOTEP IV. IT'S DONE BEFORE THE TIME WHEN HE CHANGES HIS NAME AND ACTUALLY MOVES TO THE SITE OF AMARNA. HIS EARLY NAME INCORPORATED THE NAME OF AMEN, THE ORIGINAL GOD WHO WAS THE LEADING GOD IN THE REGION AT THIS PERIOD. BUT RELIGIONS WERE CHANGING DURING THIS PERIOD AND HE CHOSE TO CHANGE HIS NAME TO REFLECT THE ATEN, THE SUN GOD, SO AKHENATON IS INCORPORATING THAT ASPECT.

PATT>> AND HERE'S THE REVOLUTIONARY HIMSELF, AKHENATON.

NANCY THOMAS>> EXACTLY. THESE ARE STATUES IN THIS ROOM THAT WERE ERECTED AT THEBES WHILE HE WAS STILL IN THE OLD CAPITAL BEFORE HE'D MOVED TO THE NEW SITE. IT'S A PERIOD THAT'S JUST STARTING TO MARK THE TRANSITION WHERE HE'S MOVING FROM A POLYTHEISTIC RELIGION, A RELIGION THAT INVOLVES A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT GODS, TO A RELIGION WORSHIPING THE ATEN. HE BECOMES THE SUN GOD.

PATT>> THESE ARE NOTHING LESS THAN THE CITY LIMITS SIGNS FOR THIS NEW CAPITAL.

NANCY THOMAS>> YEAH. ACTUALLY AT THIS POINT IN THE EXHIBITION, WE'VE MOVED TO AMARNA. THESE ARE THE BOUNDARIES STILL THAT MARK THE CIRCUMFERENCE OF THE NEW SITE. THE WHOLE CITY MOVED WITH AKHENATON, WHO CHOSE TO ESTABLISH THIS NEW SITE PRIMARILY BECAUSE HE WANTED TO CHANGE THE RELIGION AND HE NEEDED A VIRGIN SITE THAT HADN'T BEEN DEDICATED TO OTHER GODS.

PATT>> AND HERE IS A NAME THAT ENDURES IN HISTORY: NEFERTITI.

NANCY THOMAS>> EXACTLY. NEFERTITI IS QUITE A KNOWN FIGURE.

PATT>> SHE WAS THE WIFE OF AKHENATON, HIS PRINCIPAL WIFE.

NANCY THOMAS>> EXACTLY.

PATT>> SO SHE GOT ALL THE GOOD PORTRAITURE, RIGHT?

NANCY THOMAS>> OF COURSE. SHE ALWAYS LOOKS LOVELY.

PATT>> SHE DOES. I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE DID IT IN THAT DRY CLIMATE.

THIS, TO ME, IS THE KODAK MOMENT OF THE EIGHTEENTH DYNASTY. IT SUMS UP EVERYTHING THAT WAS RADICAL ABOUT THIS GUY.

NANCY THOMAS>> YEAH. IT CERTAINLY SHOWS THE STYLE OF THE PERIOD. BUT WHAT'S MORE SURPRISING IS THAT IT SHOWS THE KING AND THE QUEEN, BOTH AT THE SAME SCALE, BOUNCING THEIR THREE DAUGHTERS ON THEIR LAPS AND KNEES IN A VERY AFFECTIONATE WAY.

PATT>> AND THIS IS THE CITY THAT AKHENATON BUILT?

NANCY THOMAS>> EXACTLY. THIS WAS A SITE THAT WAS PROBABLY CONSTRUCTED IN A PERIOD OF THREE OR FOUR YEARS. THE WHOLE ENTOURAGE OF THE KING, THE SEAT OF GOVERNMENT, WAS ALL RELOCATED TO AMARNA.

PATT>> AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO IT.

NOW WE GET THE COUNTER-REVOLUTION. HOW LONG DID THE AMARNA CAPITAL AND THE ATEN RELIGION LAST?

NANCY THOMAS>> IT REALLY ONLY LASTED THROUGH THE LIFE OF AKHENATON HIMSELF. AFTER HIS DEATH, IT QUICKLY DISINTEGRATED AND THE SITE WAS ABANDONED. SO THE CENTER OF POWER MOVED BACK TO THEBES, THE PRIESTHOOD RESUMED ITS PREVIOUS ACTIVITIES AND IT'S PERFECTLY SHOWN BY THIS DEPICTION OF THE GOD, AMEN, WHO IS ONE OF THE ORIGINAL GODS WITH HIS TILE PLUMED HEADDRESS SHELTERING --

PATT>> SHELTERING WHOM?

NANCY THOMAS>> TUTANKHAMON.

PATT>> A NAME FAMILIAR TO US ALL.

NANCY THOMAS>> EXACTLY.

PATT>> NOW, THERE'S A LOT OF SPECULATION THAT THE REASON THAT TUTANKHAMON'S TOMB WAS SO RICH WASN'T JUST BECAUSE HE WAS A PHARAOH, BUT HE WAS THE PHARAOH WHO GAVE THE OLD GODS BACK TO THE PEOPLE.

NANCY THOMAS>> UM-HUM.

PATT>> AKHENATON'S NAME AND IMAGE WERE OBLITERATED, VIRTUALLY COMPLETELY, BY THOSE WHO INHERITED POWER IN EGYPT. HERE YOU SEE EVEN HIS NAME, THE CARTOUCHE OF HIS NAME, CUT OUT FROM THIS PIECE OF POTTERY. BUT TUTANKHAMON, WHO REIGNED SO MUCH MORE BRIEFLY, IS KNOWN THE WORLD OVER. HE'S SO FAMILIAR TO US THAT PEOPLE CAN DO COMEDY ROUTINES ABOUT HIM AND EVERYBODY GETS THE JOKE.

[FILM CLIP]

PATT>> THE EGYPTIAN AESTHETIC HAS EXUDED A PROFOUND INFLUENCE NOT ONLY IN ART, BUT IN POPULAR CULTURE. FROM THE PLEATINGS OF THIS LINEN DRESS RENDERED IN LIMESTONE TO THE LOTUS AND PAPYRUS MOTIFS OF ARCHITECTURE SEEN IN THE LAVISH RENDERINGS OF THE HOLLYWOOD EGYPTIAN THEATRE.

WHEN THE TUTANKHAMON EXHIBIT WAS HERE MORE THAN TWENTY YEARS AGO, ABOUT A MILLION AND A HALF PEOPLE CAME TO SEE IT.

NANCY THOMAS>> WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN WAVES OF INTEREST AND STUDY OF ANCIENT EGYPT WITH NAPOLEON'S TRAVELS TO EGYPT, THE PUBLICATIONS IN THE EARLY PART OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY. WHEN HIEROGLYPHS WERE FIRST TRANSLATED, THAT WAS ANOTHER IMPORTANT WAVE.

PATT>> THANKS TO THE ROSETTA STONE.

NANCY THOMAS>> AND THEN CERTAINLY IN 1922, THE TOMB WAS OPENED AND THIS WAS QUITE A FEAT.

PATT>> AND IT'S STILL WITH US. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS NAMES IN MODERN HISTORY, ALTHOUGH HE DIED BEFORE HE WAS TWENTY YEARS OLD. WE KNOW HIM.

NANCY THOMAS>> CERTAINLY THE TOUR IN THE 70'S BROUGHT HIS NAME TO LIFE FOR A WHOLE NEW GENERATION, AND I THINK WITH THIS EXHIBITION, WE'RE INTO ANOTHER GENERATION SINCE THAT LAST EXHIBITION. SO IT WILL HAVE GREAT MEANING FOR PEOPLE AND WE REALLY EXPECT SOME CROWDS.

PATT>> THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS' DREAM WAS IMMORTALITY. FOR THIS, THEY BUILT TEMPLES AND MONUMENTS. FOR THIS, THEY MUMMIFIED THEIR DEAD. THREE AND FOUR THOUSAND YEARS LATER, THEY'VE ACHIEVED THAT IMMORTALITY, BUT IN A WORLD AND IN A MANNER THEY WOULD NEVER HAVE DREAMED OF.

VAL>> GORGEOUS STUFF. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT "PHARAOHS OF THE SUN", THE INFORMATION ON WHO TO CONTACT IS RIGHT THERE ON YOUR SCREEN. THE EXHIBIT IS ON DISPLAY AT THE LA COUNTY MUSEUM OF ART THROUGH JUNE 4.

(323) 856-6000
WWW.LACMA.ORG

WARREN>> WATCH OUT FOR THE CURSE OF THE TOMB. THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, DOES ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS MEAN MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS? WILL TEACHERS FORGET ABOUT CRITICAL THINKING AND JUST FOCUS ON TEST SCORES? THAT'S TOMORROW.

KCRW 89.9 FM, WHICH WAY LA
WEEKDAYS FROM 1-2 P.M.
REBROADCAST AT 7:00 P.M.

VAL>> THAT'S IT FOR US. SEE YOU TOMORROW. TAKE CARE.

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