7/03/00

LC000703

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT –

WARREN>> A LOOK BACK AT THE COLD WAR AND THE MILITARY STRATEGY FOR PROTECTING SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> CALLED THE RING OF SUPERSONIC STEEL, LOS ANGELES WAS CIRCLED BY SIXTEEN NIKE LAUNCH SITES WHICH WERE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT OVER 4,000 SQUARE MILES OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IN THE EVENT OF ATTACK.

VAL>> AND HOW DO YOU GET A COMPLEX MESSAGE ACROSS WITH ONE PICTURE? WE’LL FIND OUT FROM A MAN WHO DOES IT NEARLY EVERY DAY, POLITICAL CARTOONIST, MICHAEL RAMIREZ.

WARREN>> IN TONIGHT’S INFINITELY MORRISON, PATT ASKS WHOSE ELECTION IS IT ANYWAY?

PATT>> CALIFORNIA VOTERS TURN OUT AND THE SUPREME COURT TUNES OUT. THE BLANKET PRIMARY, ON TONIGHT’S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> HE IS THE CRAFTSMAN BEHIND SOME OF THE MOST FAMOUS SCENES ON FILM.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> WE’LL INTRODUCE YOU TO OSCAR-WINNING SCREENWRITER, WILLIAM GOLDMAN, AUTHOR OF "MISERY", "PRINCESS BRIDE" AND "BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID".

WARREN>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR MONDAY, JULY 3, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION

WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION

DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> AND I’M WARREN OLNEY.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, COLD WAR LOS ANGELES. THE CITY IS OFTEN THOUGHT OF AS THE TARGET OF JOKES ABOUT SMOG AND BAD TRAFFIC, NOT TO MENTION FIRES, FLOODS, EARTHQUAKES AND CIVIL UNREST. BUT DID YOU KNOW THAT IT ONCE WAS A MILITARY TARGET, THE CENTER OF A BULLS EYE FOR SOVIET BOMBERS AND MISSILES DURING THE COLD WAR?

VAL>> NOW AT THAT TIME, LA WAS THE HEART OF THE U.S. AEROSPACE INDUSTRY. THE KEY TO THE CITY’S DEFENSES WAS SOMETHING CALLED THE RING OF SUPERSONIC STEEL. SAUL GONZALEZ TAKES US INTO THE RING.

>> WE MUST LEARN TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE WE HAVE THE HYDROGEN BOMB AND THE ENEMY OF FREEDOM HAS THE HYDROGEN BOMB.

SAUL>> THE COLD WAR. IT WAS A STRUGGLE OF IDEOLOGIES AND MEGATONS THAT TOUCHED AND TERRIFIED NEARLY EVERY CORNER OF THE EARTH, INCLUDING SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

>> I CALL UPON CHAIRMAN KRUSHCHEV TO ELIMINATE HIS CLANDESTINE, RECKLESS AND PROVOCATIVE THREAT TO WORLD PEACE.

SAUL>> IN FACT, LIKE RELICS FROM A LOST CIVILIZATION, THE REMAINS OF A ONCE FORMIDABLE SUPERPOWER WEAPONS SYSTEM STILL ENCIRCLE LOS ANGELES, A SYSTEM THAT DURING THE COLDEST DAYS OF THE COLD WAR WAS CHARGED WITH PROTECTING LA AGAINST ATOMIC ATTACK BY HURLING AN ARSENAL OF MISSILES INTO THE SKY, MISSILES CALLED NIKE.

FRANK EVANS>> THE NIKE SYSTEM, BASICALLY, WAS INTENDED TO PROVIDE THE DEFENSE FOR THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ANY ENEMY AIR ATTACK, ANY INCOMING AIRPLANES, MANNED BOMBERS, ALSO AIR-TO-GROUND MISSILES.

SAUL>> AS AN ARMY OFFICER, FRANK EVANS MANNED LOS ANGELES'S MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM FROM 1957 TO 1969, YEARS THAT HE AND HIS FELLOW SOLDIERS SPENT PREPARING FOR THE UNTHINKABLE: NUCLEAR ATTACK.

FRANK EVANS>> YOU KNEW YOU HAD TO BE PREPARED FOR THAT DAY BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A SECOND CHANCE AT IT. AS A BATTERY COMMANDER, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNEW THAT IF YOU ENGAGED ON A TARGET AND IT WAS UNSUCCESSFUL, THE RESULT OF THAT WOULD BE THAT THERE WAS A LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT AIRCRAFT WOULD BE ABLE TO DROP A LARGE SIZED NUCLEAR BOMB ON LOS ANGELES OR ITS TARGET AREA.

SAUL>> CALLED THE RING OF SUPERSONIC STEEL, LOS ANGELES WAS CIRCLED BY SIXTEEN NIKE LAUNCH SITES WHICH WERE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT OVER 4,000 SQUARE MILES OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IN THE EVENT OF ATTACK. THIS, HOWEVER, WAS BUT ONE OF SEVERAL NIKE SYSTEMS SURROUNDING AMERICAN CITIES.

>> THE FIRST LINE OF ACTION IS FIGHTER AIRCRAFT AND THE LAST, NIKE BATTERIES, WHICH GUARD AMERICAN FACTORIES, CITIES AND RETALIATORY BASES IN AN INTERLOCKING CIRCLE OF DEFENSE RINGS.

SAUL>> ON BLUFFS OVERLOOKING THE PACIFIC, FRANK EVANS SHOWED US WHAT REMAINS OF ONE NIKE MISSILE INSTALLATION, FORT MACARTHUR.

FRANK EVANS>> THESE ARE THE ELEVATOR DOORS THAT PROVIDE ACCESS TO THE UNDERGROUND MAGAZINE, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY ABOUT FORTY BY SIXTY FEET. IT WAS WITHIN THE UNDERGROUND MAGAZINES WHERE THE MISSILES WERE STORED. THERE WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY FIVE MISSILES PER MAGAZINE. THE DOORS SWING DOWN AND THEN THE ELEVATOR, WHICH IS THE SAME SIZE AS THE DOORS, RAISES UP AND IT HAS THE MISSILE ON IT. THE MISSILE IS ON A RAIL WHICH IS THEN ROLLED OVER ONTO THE SATELLITE LAUNCHES, WHICH THERE WOULD BE ONE ON THE LEFT AND TWO TO THE RIGHT.

SAUL>> THE FIRST GENERATION OF MISSILE THAT PROTECTED LA WAS THE NIKE AJAX, ARMED WITH THREE CONVENTIONAL BOMBS THAT COULD BLAST AN AIRCRAFT INTO SHRAPNEL UP TO THIRTY MILES AWAY. YET THAT DESTRUCTIVE POWER PALED COMPARED TO A WEAPON THAT CAME LATER, THE NIKE HERCULES.

FRANK EVANS>> THE NIKE HERCULES SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED TO CARRY A NUCLEAR WARHEAD, SO THEY DID HAVE THE CAPABILITY OF ENGAGING AN ENTIRE FORMATION OF AIRCRAFT RATHER THAN A SINGLE AIRCRAFT. WITH THE NUCLEAR WARHEAD, YOU HAD THE CAPABILITY THEN TO LITERALLY LIQUEFY ANY FORMATION WITH ONE MISSILE AND ONE WARHEAD.

SAUL>> EVANS THOUGHT THAT FIREPOWER MIGHT HAVE TO BE USED DURING ONE COLD WAR SHOWDOWN, THE 1962 CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS.

FRANK EVANS>> ALL PERSONNEL WERE RECALLED. IF YOU LIVED AT HOME, YOU CAME IN AND STAYED ON BASE. THE GATES WERE LOCKED AND MOST SITES WENT UP TO AN ESCALATED LEVEL OF RESPONSE. SOME SITES WERE SITTING AT A FIVE MINUTE RESPONSE TIME. I THINK, DURING THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS MORE THAN ANY OTHER, GAVE PEOPLE PAUSE FOR CONCERN AS TO WHETHER WE WOULD NEED TO USE THESE SYSTEMS OR NOT.

SAUL>> HOWEVER, DOOMSDAY WAS NOT THE ONLY THING ON THE MINDS OF NIKE MISSILE CREWS. WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS NEAR CIVILIAN BACKYARDS, THEY ALSO WORKED TO KEEP THE NEIGHBORS HAPPY.

FRANK EVANS>> BECAUSE OF ITS INTRUSIVENESS, SO TO SPEAK, AND ITS PROXIMITY TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, THERE WAS A GREAT EFFORT IN PUBLIC RELATIONS. SITES WOULD SPONSOR LOCAL WOMEN'S ASSOCIATIONS TO MEET IN THE MESS HALL AND THEY WOULD COME IN AND HELP PLANT FLOWERS ALONG THE SITE AND RECITE BEAUTIFICATION. SO THERE WAS A DEFINITE ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE LOCAL COMMUNITY IN GOOD GRACES WITH THE MILITARY.

SAUL>> THAT EFFORT EVEN INCLUDED COOPERATING WITH NETWORK TELEVISION. WHEN CBS ANNOUNCED IT WAS MOVING "THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW" TO A NEW NIGHT, THE MILITARY GENEROUSLY OFFERED PROGRAM PRODUCERS A NIKE MISSILE TO HELP PLUG THE PROGRAMMING CHANGE. AN EXAMPLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN THE SERVICE OF MASS ENTERTAINMENT.

AMERICA'S NIKE DEFENSE SYSTEM WAS FINALLY DEFEATED NOT BY THE RUSSIANS, BUT BY OBSOLESCENCE. AS THE COLD WAR GROUND ON, CONCERNS TURNED FROM SOVIET BOMBERS TO SOVIET INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILES, WEAPONS THAT MOVED TOO FAST EVEN FOR THE MIGHTY NIKE TO STRIKE. IN 1974, ALL REMAINING NIKE MISSILE SITES IN LOS ANGELES WERE DEACTIVATED. NOW THESE ARSENALS OF THE COLD WAR ARE BEING RECLAIMED BY NATURE.

FRANK EVANS>> IT'S KIND OF EERIE IN WAYS WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT AND REALIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T TOO LONG AGO THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY AN ACTIVE SITE.

SAUL>> A FUNCTIONING FACILITY WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

FRANK EVANS>> RIGHT, RIGHT. THAT'S THE PART THAT'S EERIE. TO KNOW THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAD NUCLEAR WEAPONS HERE AT ONE TIME AND NOW IT'S HISTORY.

SAUL>> FORTUNATELY, THE UNTHINKABLE REMAINED UNTHINKABLE, AND THE MISSILES THAT SHIELDED LOS ANGELES NEVER HAD TO ROCKET OFF THEIR LAUNCH PADS, TURNING SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SKIES INTO NUCLEAR BATTLEFIELDS.

WARREN>> THANK GOD, INDEED, WE DIDN’T HAVE TO USE THAT.

SAUL>> YES.

WARREN>> THIS WAS ALL BUILT WITH TAXPAYERS’ MONEY. CAN THE TAXPAYERS GO SEE IT?

SAUL>> THE POST-COLD WAR TAXPAYERS CAN SEE SOME OF THESE SITES. THERE’S TWO I RECOMMEND IN PARTICULAR. NUMBER ONE, THE ONE DOWN AT FORT MACARTHUR WHICH OVERLOOKS THE OCEAN AND IT’S JUST A BEAUTIFUL SIGHT. IT’S ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE. THERE’S A LITTLE HIKING TRAIL THAT GOES THROUGH IT. OR JUST OFF THE 405 FREEWAY, TAKE THE MULHOLLAND EXIT, GO WEST ON MULHOLLAND. IT’LL TURN INTO AN UNPAVED ROAD A FEW MILES UP. TAKE THAT FOR A FEW MORE MILES AND YOU’LL COME TO THIS AMAZING OLD NIKE MISSILE SITE WITH BEAUTIFUL VIEWS OF LOS ANGELES AND THE OCEAN AND THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY.

WARREN>> NOBODY WANTS TO BUILD A HOUSE?

SAUL>> NO, NOT THERE. THAT’S ACTUALLY CITY PARK LAND. SO IS THE OTHER SITE IN SAN PEDRO AS WELL.

VAL>> NOW ARE THEY TRYING TO PRESERVE THESE SITES OR WILL THEY BUILD OVER THEM?

SAUL>> IN PARTICULAR, THE FORT MACARTHUR SITE, THEY’RE TRYING TO PRESERVE. THERE’S A MOVEMENT UNDERWAY OF LOCAL HISTORIANS, NIKE VETS, TO PRESERVE THE SITE. WHO’S OPPOSED TO IT? LOCAL HOMEOWNERS GROUPS IN THE AREA WHO DON’T LIKE THE IDEA OF THESE OLD SHACKS UP IN THIS FIELD AND THESE COLD WAR MEMORIES THAT ARE THERE AND THEY’RE LITERALLY IN THEIR BACK YARDS.

WARREN>> PRETTY SCARY.

VAL>> SAUL, THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT’S A GREAT TIP.

SAUL>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> TOMORROW NIGHT, WE SPEND A WHOLE HALF HOUR LOOKING AT A VITAL ISSUE THAT’S ON THE MINDS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE THESE DAYS, YOUR PRIVACY FOR SALE.

>> WHEN I WANT TO UNCOVER ASSETS OF AN INDIVIDUAL, I CAN DO AN ALL IN ONE ASSET SEARCH WHICH INCLUDES ALL OF THESE RECORDS, OR I CAN GO INDIVIDUALLY TO FIND OUT IF THEY AIRCRAFT, WHAT REAL ESTATE THEY OWN, IF IT’S BEEN REFINANCED, IF THEY ARE A HOLDER OF FIVE PERCENT OR MORE OF STOCK OF A COMPANY, IF THEY OWN WATERCRAFT WHICH IS BASICALLY A LARGE BOAT.

VAL>> THAT’S AN ENCORE PRESENTATION TOMORROW AT 7:00 P.M.

WARREN>> EDITORIAL CARTOONS ARE INTENDED TO PROVOKE A RESPONSE. SOMETIMES THEY MAKE YOU THINK, MAKE YOU SMILE OR GET A LUMP IN YOUR THROAT.

VAL>> ANOTHER FREQUENT RESPONSE IS OUTRAGE AND LOS ANGELES TIMES EDITORIAL CARTOONIST, MICHAEL RAMIREZ, HAS SEEN HIS SHARE OF THAT, AS WE SEE IN TONIGHT’S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

RAMIREZ SAYS HIS WORK IS INTENDED TO BE A CATALYST FOR THOUGHT AND DISCUSSION AND HE SEEMS TO BE DOING JUST THAT. HIS WORK HAS BEEN AWARDED WITH A PULITZER PRIZE AND IS NOW SYNDICATED WORLDWIDE IN OVER 550 NEWSPAPERS AND MAGAZINES.

WARREN>> AND HERE HE IS JOINING US NOW. MICHAEL RAMIREZ, EDITORIAL CARTOONIST FOR THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> NICE TO BE HERE.

WARREN>> DO YOU LIKE TO MAKE PEOPLE MAD?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> UH, NO. NO. IN FACT, YOU KNOW, WE TRACE MOST OF THOSE HOSTILE PHONE CALLS THAT I GET AND THEY'RE ALL FROM MY MOTHER, SO THOSE NUMBERS ARE A LITTLE OUT OF SKEW.

WARREN>> OR THE KID THAT DIDN'T LIKE YOU IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WARREN>> YOU'RE A CONSERVATIVE CARTOONIST IN A LIBERAL PAPER. HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, I HAD PHOTOGRAPHS OF MICHAEL PARKS AND DICK SCHLOSBERG AND SHELBY COFFEE, AND THEY HAD NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO GIVE ME A JOB. YOU KNOW, IT WAS STRANGE. IN FACT --

WARREN>> HIGHLY PLACED EXECUTIVES AT THE TIMES, FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH THOSE NAMES.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> THAT'S RIGHT. YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY FIRST OFFERED ME THE JOB IN '94 AFTER I WON THE PULITZER, I THOUGHT IT WAS KIND OF A STRANGE COUPLING BECAUSE, PHILOSOPHICALLY, WE'RE SO DIFFERENT. FRANKLY, THE FIRST THING I TOLD THEM WAS, I'M A CAPITALIST, YOU GUYS ARE COMMUNISTS, THIS WILL NOT WORK.

VAL>> SORRY TO INTERRUPT. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF YOUR WORK BECAUSE IT SAYS SO MUCH. THE FIRST CARTOON DEALS WITH THE LAUSD AND IT SHOWS A PICTURE OF A SNOOZING ZACARIAS, RUBEN ZACARIAS, THE FORMER SUPERINTENDENT OF THE LAUSD, OVERSEEING A POOL OF DROWNING CHILDREN.

WARREN>> AND THE CAPTION, OR THE BALLOON, IS, "HEY KID, KEEP IT DOWN. WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE SOMEONE'S CAREER OVER HERE." THAT'S PRETTY TOUGH STUFF.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YEAH. WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK CARTOONS HAVE TO BE PROVOCATIVE. THE DYNAMICS OF WHAT WE DO IS, WE HAVE A LOT MORE LEEWAY THAN OUR COLLEAGUES' INTERNALISM TO SORT OF TIPTOE ON THE LINE OF LIBEL AND SLANDER AND JUST SORT OF PUSH AN ISSUE TO AN EXTREME, BECAUSE WE REALLY WANT TO GET PEOPLE INVOLVED. I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ELECTION, THE PRESIDENT AND HER HUSBAND WERE ELECTED WITH 43 PERCENT OF THE VOTE IN '92. WHEN YOU TAKE THE ACTUAL NUMBERS, THAT NUMBER DROPS DOWN TO 23.3 PERCENT. AS A POLITICAL CARTOONIST, WHAT MY DRIVING AMBITION IS IS TO GET PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS. THAT STARTS IN THE DISCUSSION OF THE ISSUES.

WARREN>> OKAY. HERE'S ANOTHER CARTOON. IT SHOWS ONE OF OUR STATE SENATORS, RICHARD POLANCO, SACRIFICING A CHILD ON THE ALTER OF RACIAL POLITICS WITH AN AZTEC STATUE IN THE BACK. HE'S OBVIOUSLY A PRIEST. EXPLAIN THAT ONE.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS ONE REALLY IS A LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF EVENTS. I FELT BY DEFENDING ZACARIAS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT LAUSD AND YOU THINK WE COULDN'T STOP SOCIAL PROMOTION BECAUSE 85 PERCENT OF THE KIDS WOULD FAIL, IT'S DEFINITELY AN EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM GONE AWRY.

WARREN>> DID YOU GET A LOT OF HEAT, THOUGH, FOR THESE TWO CARTOONS?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> OH, YEAH. IN FACT, WE HAD MANY HISPANIC LEADERS THAT CAME IN AND PROTESTED THE CARTOON ON RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS. MY RESPONSE WAS, BASICALLY, "I DIDN'T REALIZE WE HAD SO MANY PRACTICING AZTECS. I'LL MAKE A DEAL WITH YOU. IF YOU ARE A PRACTICING AZTEC, THAT MEANS YOU HAVE TO SACRIFICE PEOPLE. IF YOU START WITH ZACARIAS, I'LL STOP DOING THE CARTOON."

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT WHAT IS PROBABLY YOUR MOST CONTROVERSIAL CARTOON EVER. IT SHOWS A YOUNG PRIVATE RETURNING TO BASE IN A JEEP ACCOMPANIED BY A SHEEP. THAT'S A SHEEP THERE. AND THE MP NEXT TO HIM NEXT TO HIM IS THINKING, NOT SAYING BUT THINKING, "DON'T ASK, DON'T ASK, DON'T ASK". YOU TOOK FLAK FOR THIS ONE.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YEAH. YOU KNOW, I THINK PART OF IT IS REALLY PEOPLE THAT ARE SERVING THEIR OWN AGENDA. FRANKLY, I SHOWED THE CARTOON AROUND TO A REAL DIVERSE ARRAY OF PEOPLE, A LOT OF MY HOMOSEXUAL FRIENDS, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY WOULD GET THE POINT. THE POINT, OBVIOUSLY, IS -- THE LITTLE INTERPRETATION OF THE CARTOON IS THAT TRYING TO DETERMINE PEOPLES' SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS JUST KIND OF A LUDICROUS POLICY. I JUST TOOK IT A LITTLE TO THE EXTREME.

WARREN>> BUT PEOPLE ACCUSED YOU OF ASSOCIATING HOMOSEXUALITY WITH BESTIALITY.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> RIGHT, WHICH TO ME IS JUST A STRETCH. AND FRANKLY, I THINK IT'S MOSTLY PEOPLE WITH THEIR OWN AGENDA AND IT GIVES THEM A HIGH PROFILE TO DO IT.

VAL>> THE NEXT CARTOON IS PROBABLY ONE OF YOUR MOST POTENT. IT'S YOUR SIMPLEST AND IT SIMPLY SHOWS THE BARREL OF A GUN TURNING BACK TOWARD THE GOP, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> AS YOU CAN SEE, I'M AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY OFFENDER. REALLY, THE CARTOONS IN THEIR CONTEXT ARE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES RATHER THAN PERSONALITIES. I THINK CLINTON WOULD PROBABLY BE A GREAT GUY TO GO TO THE BAR AND PICK UP WOMEN WITH, BUT IT'S THE ISSUES THAT HE'S DEALING WITH THAT AFFECT US ALL. THAT'S SORT OF WHAT I DO.

WARREN>> SPEAKING OF CLINTON, I BELIEVE WE HAVE A CARTOON THAT SHOWS HIM IN IT. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT ONE. THERE HE IS WITH HIS PANTS OFF. I DON'T THINK IT SHOWS ON THE SCREEN THERE, BUT IT SAYS "CONTEMPT" ON THAT STATUTE. IT LOOKS LIKE THE STATUE AT THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YOU KNOW, HE WAS THE ONLY PRESIDENT IN OFFICE TO EVER BE FOUND IN CONTEMPT OF COURT AND FINED. INITIALLY, MY IDEA WAS TO THINK OF WHAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE MEMORIAL FOR THIS PRESIDENT. I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE I COULD DO THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT WITH A BIG PROPHYLACTIC OVER THE TOP OF IT, AND IF FIGURED THIS ONE WAS PROBABLY A LITTLE MORE PRINTABLE.

VAL>> IT'S ACTUALLY, AND THAT WOULD HAVE VIOLATED PERHAPS ONE OF YOUR OWN RULES OF GOOD TASTE.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> OH, ABSOLUTELY. THEN AGAIN, MY PREDECESSOR WAS PAUL CONRAD AND PAUL WAS ALWAYS IN BAD TASTE, SO --

WARREN>> HOW DO YOU DEFINE BAD TASTE? WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET YOU OUT OF THE PAPER?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, EVERYTHING I DO IS FRANKLY IN BAD TASTE. HOPEFULLY, THEY'LL NEVER JUDGE IT ALONG THOSE LINES.

WARREN>> HAVE YOU EVER BEEN THROWN OUT OF THE LA TIMES? HAVE THEY EVER SAID, "NO, WE WON'T PRINT THIS ONE"?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> NO, NO. YOU KNOW, THE LA TIMES HAS REALLY BEEN FANTASTIC AS FAR AS GIVING ME THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT I DO BEST, WHICH IS ANALYZE NEWS AND COME UP WITH THE VISUAL METAPHORS FOR IT. YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN LINES THAT WE ALL HAVE TO RESPECT AND TRAGIC CIRCUMSTANCES. YOU CAN'T MAKE FUN OF THAT.

VAL>> THAT'S TRUE.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> I THINK HUMOR IS A VERY POWERFUL VEHICLE. IT FACILITATES THE ABILITY TO REACH A HUGE AUDIENCE WITH YOUR MESSAGE, BUT IT HAS TO BE USED AT THE APPROPRIATE TIMES, OBVIOUSLY. SO THAT'S ABOUT IT. OTHERWISE, THE WAY POLITICS IS, THE CRAZINESS OF IT, IT PRETTY MUCH GIVES ME BOUNDARIES TO GO AS FAR AS THE THINGS YOU CAN --

WARREN>> YOU'VE GOT A LOT TO WORTH WITH.

VAL>> AS YOU DARE TO GO.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> THAT’S RIGHT.

WARREN>> MICHAEL RAMIREZ, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME HERE.

WARREN>> NICE MAN WHO MAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE MAD.

SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RAMIREZ’S POLITICAL CARTOONS? WE’RE ALWAYS INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU, OUR VIEWERS, THINK ABOUT THAT OR ANY OTHER TOPIC WE COVER ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, SO HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG

WWW.KCET.ORG.

LIFE & TIMES TONIGHT

4401 SUNSET BLVD.

LOS ANGELES, CA 90027

(323) 953-5555

VAL>> ON THIS, THE DAY BEFORE THE FOURTH OF JULY, PATT MORRISON PONDERS A RULING THAT LIMITS OUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE, IN TONIGHT’S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT>> WELL, IT WAS FUN WHILE IT LASTED. VOTING IN A BLANKET PRIMARY, PICKING AND CHOOSING A DEMOCRAT HERE, A REPUBLICAN THERE, A GREEN PARTIER WAY OVER THERE. A WHOLE FLOCK OF CANDIDATES, NOT JUST THE ONES SOME POLITICAL PARTY HAD ALREADY VETTED AND PREDIGESTED. BUT NOW THE SUPREME COURT HAS THROWN A WET BLANKET OVER CALIFORNIA’S BLANKET PRIMARY.

THE COURT REVERSED THE NINTH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS SAYING THE BLANKET PRIMARY VIOLATES THE STATE POLITICAL PARTY’S RIGHTS OF FREE ASSOCIATION, FOR EXAMPLE, BY LETTING REPUBLICANS HAVE A SAY IN CHOOSING DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES AND VICE VERSA. JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA SAID THE BLANKET PRIMARY, WHICH VOTERS PASSED RESOUNDINGLY IN 1996, FORCES POLITICAL PARTIES TO ASSOCIATE WITH THOSE WHO DO NOT SHARE THEIR BELIEFS. THE SAME COURT ALSO DECIDED THAT THE BOY SCOUTS DON’T HAVE TO ALLOW HOMOSEXUAL SCOUT LEADERS BECAUSE THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE SCOUTS’ FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION. BUT THERE’S A BIG DIFFERENCE HERE. BEING A SCOUT IS AN OPTION. WE HAVE NO CHOICE ABOUT BEING CITIZENS. IN A DEMOCRACY, VOTING IS PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION. THE STANDARD SHOULD BE THE VOTERS, NOT THE PARTIES THAT DERIVE THEIR INFLUENCE FROM THEM.

THE BLANKET PRIMARY WAS CONCEIVED PARTLY AS A REMEDY TO THE DRIFT OF PARTIES TOWARD THEIR EXTREMES. TOO OFTEN, IN A GENERAL ELECTION, YOU’D FIND A CANDIDATE TOO FAR TO THE LEFT BEING PITTED AGAINST A CANDIDATE TOO FAR TO THE RIGHT AT A TIME WHEN MOST VOTERS ARE DRIFTING TOWARD THE MIDDLE. SO VOTERS TUNED OUT AND DIDN’T TURN OUT AT THE POLLS.

BUT IF VOTING IS THE ULTIMATE CONSUMER CHOICE, THIS WAS LIKE A RESTRICTED TARIFF. NO WONDER THE TWO BLANKET PRIMARIES CALIFORNIA DID HOLD RECORDED THE HIGHEST VOTER TURNOUT IN TEN AND TWENTY YEARS, RESPECTIVELY. PEOPLE ARE ALREADY PUT OFF BY POLITICS, THINKING IT’S AN INSIDERS GAME. THAT’S EVEN MORE TRUE WHEN THE CHOICES ARE LIMITED TO THOSE THE SMALL PARTY ELITE SEES FIT TO PUT FORWARD. IN A STATE THAT’S ALREADY NOTORIOUS FOR ITS LOOSE PARTY LOYALTIES, CLOSED PRIMARIES MAY KEEP THE PARTY-FAITHFUL FAITHFUL, BUT IT HARDLY INCREASES THEIR RANKS.

THE DECISION MAY IRONICALLY BOOST THE PROSPECTS OF THIRD PARTY, JUST AS THE ANTICS OF THE TORYAN LABOR PARTIES IN BRITAIN GAVE BIRTH TO THE MORE MIDDLE GROUND SOCIAL DEMOCRATS. SO AS THE BOY SCOUTS NOW HAVE THE FREEDOM TO HAVE NO HOMOSEXUALS IN THEIR RANKS, CALIFORNIA’S POLITICAL PARTIES ARE FREE TOO. TO HAVE NO VOTERS IN THEIRS.

WARREN>> PATT, THANK YOU.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN MAY NOT BE A HOUSEHOLD NAME, BUT IT’S A SURE BET THAT YOU KNOW HIS WORK. HE IS THE OSCAR-WINNING SCREENWRITER OF "BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID", "ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN" AS WELL. HE’S ALSO WRITTEN DOZENS OF OTHER FILMS, SEVERAL NOVELS, AND TWO BOOKS ON THE REAL WORKINGS OF HOLLYWOOD. HIS MOST RECENT BOOK IS TITLED "WHY LIE DID I TELL?" VAL TALKED WITH WILLIAM GOLDMAN IN TONIGHT’S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

VAL>> TELL ME SOMETHING BASIC. YOU HAVE WRITTEN SOME SUPERB SCREENPLAYS --

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> I'VE BEEN AT IT A LONG TIME.

VAL>> -- LONG TIME, AND YOUR BOOK IS FULL OF STORIES OF HOW THINGS FALL THROUGH AND THEY DON'T WORK OUT AND HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO GET MOVIES MADE. IF IT'S SO HARD TO GET MOVIES MADE, HOW COME THERE ARE SO MANY BAD MOVIES MADE?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW. NOBODY SETS OUT TO SAY, "I KNOW WHAT LET'S DO THIS WEEK. LET'S MAKE A HORRIBLE MOVIE AND LOSE LOTS OF MONEY AND GET FIRED". THEY THINK IT'S GOING TO WORK, BUT YOU CAN'T PREDICT IF A MOVIE IS GOING TO WORK FOR AN AUDIENCE, MUCH LESS IF IT'S GOING TO HAVE ANY QUALITY AT ALL. SO IT'S ALWAYS A CRAP SHOOT.

VAL>> YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T TELL AHEAD OF TIME WHETHER SOMETHING YOU'VE WRITTEN IS GOOD OR BAD OR BETTER THAN SOMETHING --

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> NO. THERE WAS AN EXAMPLE OF A MOVIE RECENTLY WHICH WAS FROM LAST YEAR. DISASTER, TESTED TERRIBLY, WILDLY EXPENSIVE, WAY OVER $100 MILLION DOLLARS, THE EXECUTIVES WERE ABOUT TO WALK THE PLANK. IT WAS "STUART LITTLE". IT WAS A HUGE HIT. THEY'RE ALREADY MAKING THE SEQUEL. THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

VAL>> HAVE YOU YOURSELF EVER WRITTEN SOMETHING WHERE YOU SAID, "OH, THIS IS REALLY BAD, BUT I'VE GOT TO DO IT"?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> I'VE ALWAYS ONLY DONE MOVIES I'VE WANTED TO DO. I DON'T LIKE MY WRITING, SO DO I THINK SOMETHING'S BAD? ALL THE TIME.

VAL>> YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR WRITING?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> NO, I DON'T. I DO THE BEST I CAN, BUT I'M INSIDE MY OWN SKIN AND I KNOW ALL THE TRICKS THAT I DO. I KNOW I OVER-SURPRISE, I DO THIS, AND I TRICK PEOPLE HERE, BECAUSE I'M TERRIFIED YOU'LL STOP READING OR WATCHING. I THINK, VERY OFTEN, WHEN I'M INVOLVED WITH MOVIES THAT DON'T WORK, I THINK PROBABLY I DIDN'T TELL THE STORY RIGHT.

VAL>> ONE OF THE STORIES THAT YOU TOLD SUPERBLY, WHICH REALLY MADE YOUR CAREER, PUT YOU ON THE MAP AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC, IS "BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID".

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> A CLASSIC.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> CHANGED EVERYTHING.

VAL>> CHANGED EVERYTHING. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE PARTICULAR SCENE WHICH YOU SAY IN YOUR BOOK CHANGED YOUR CAREER.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> JUMPED OFF THE CLIFF.

VAL>> TELL US ABOUT IT AS WE'RE WATCHING THIS.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> WHEN I STARTED WORKING ON THAT, THERE WAS NO BUTCH CASSIDY. THERE WERE ONLY A COUPLE OF BOOKS ABOUT IT. THE INDUSTRY HADN'T STARTED IT. IT WAS AN UNKNOWN PIECE OF MATERIAL. NOW THEY'RE VERY FAMOUS.

VAL>> BUT YOU ACTUALLY HAD TO MAKE IT OKAY FOR THE AUDIENCE TO ACCEPT THEIR BEING COWARDLY AND RUNNING AWAY?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> THAT IS CORRECT. THAT WAS MY WHOLE PLOT. THERE'S A WHOLE HALF-HOUR CHASE WHICH ONLY IS ABOUT SAYING LET THEM GO. YOU NEVER KNEW --

VAL>> HERE THEY ARE. THEY'VE FINALLY MADE THE DECISION.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> NOW THEY'RE GOING TO GO.

VAL>> THE ODDS ARE OVERWHELMINGLY AGAINST THEM.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT. WHEN THEY JUMP AND THERE'S THAT HUGE SPLASH, THAT WAS LIKE THIS HUGE APPLAUSE AND LAUGHTER.

VAL>> LET'S MOVE ON TO ANOTHER MOVIE THAT REALLY CAME FROM YOUR HEART. IN FACT, YOU WROTE THE NOVEL AND, FOR YEARS, YOU STRUGGLED ACTUALLY TO GET THIS INTO --

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> "THE PRINCESS BRIDE".

VAL>> "THE PRINCESS BRIDE".

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> THAT'S ONE OF THE TWO MOVIES I'VE WRITTEN THAT I LIKE. I LIKE "PRINCESS BRIDE" AND I LIKE "BUTCH CASSIDY".

VAL>> AND YOU'RE ALSO NOT VERY ANXIOUS TO ACTUALLY SPEND TIME ON THE SET WHEN THE MOVIE --

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> I DON'T LIKE BEING ON THE SET. NO, I SCREW THINGS UP. I DO.

VAL>> AS YOU DID --

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> AS I DID IN "PRINCESS BRIDE".

VAL>> --IN THIS SCENE THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE RIGHT HERE.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> I WROTE ALL THE DRAFTS OF THE MOVIE. HER DRESS ALWAYS CATCHES ON FIRE. I'M ON THE SET. I'M WATCHING BEAUTIFUL ROBIN WRIGHT AND CARY ELWES COME THROUGH. IT'S A BIG THING. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF TECHNICIANS AND ALL THAT STUFF. THE SMOKE MACHINES ARE GOING. THEY'RE WALKING THROUGH AND HER DRESS CATCHES ON FIRE AND I SCREAM, "HER DRESS IS ON FIRE", RUINING THE SHOT. WHEREUPON THE DIRECTOR SAID, CALMLY, BECAUSE I'D BLOWN THE SHOT, "BILL, HER DRESS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ON FIRE." BUT I TEND TO GET ON THE WRONG -- I DON'T LIKE BEING ON THE SET. A LOT OF WRITERS DO. I DON'T.

VAL>> TELL US ABOUT ANOTHER WONDERFUL MOVIE, BUT A VERY DIFFICULT ONE TO WATCH AT TIMES: "MISERY".

[FILM CLIP]

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> WELL, "MISERY" IS STEPHEN KING AND I THINK HE'S FABULOUS ESPECIALLY WHEN HE'S DEALING WITH REAL MONSTERS, NOT SUPERNATURAL MONSTERS. THIS MOVIE I TOOK -- THERE'S A SCENE IN THE BOOK WHERE KATHY BATES CUTS OFF JIMMY CAAN'S FEET.

VAL>> IN THE BOOK?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> IN THE BOOK. I THOUGHT, "OH, MY IT'S THE MOST AMAZING SCENE. THE AUDIENCE WILL" -- SO ROB REINER AND HIS PARTNER, ANDY [SCHEINDLIN], TAKE THE SCRIPT AND REWRITE IT SO SHE ONLY BREAKS HIS ANKLES. I KNOW THEM WELL AND I SCREAMED AT THEM, "YOU'VE RUINED IT, YOU'VE RUINED IT" AND THEY SAID NO.

VAL>> NOW YOU REALIZE THAT ACTUALLY CHOPPING OFF THE FEET WOULD HAVE BEEN --

WILLIAM GOODMAN>> TERRIBLE.

VAL>> -- TOO MUCH. WHY WOULD IT HAVE BEEN SO TERRIBLE?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> BECAUSE WARREN BEATTY WAS AT ONE TIME GOING TO DO IT AND INTERESTED IN DOING IT. HE SAID, "I'LL PLAY IT, BUT KNOW THAT THE GUY'S A LOSER. HE'S A CRIPPLE FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE." AND THAT WASN'T WHY WE DID IT. IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF THE HORRIBLENESS WAS JUST TOO AWFUL.

VAL>> A WRITER WHO REALLY LOVES WRITING WANTS TO CONTROL THE FINAL PRODUCT, SO WHY WOULD A WRITER WHO REALLY WANTS HIS OR HER WORK TO TURN OUT THE WAY THEY WANT, WHY WOULD THEY EVER WANT TO DO A SCREENPLAY --

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> THEY WOULDN'T. A LOT OF WRITERS BECOME DIRECTORS SIMPLY FOR CONTROL. I NEVER WANTED THAT BECAUSE I WAS WRITING A LOT OF NOVELS IN THOSE DAYS. USUALLY WHEN I'M DONE WITH A SCRIPT, I'VE WRITTEN IT SO OFTEN I'M SO SICK OF IT. I KNOW IT PRETTY MUCH BY HEART. THE IDEA OF DEALING WITH IT FOR ANOTHER YEAR, DEALING WITH ACTORS, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT EVER APPEALED TO ME. BUT I THINK YOU DO IT FOR CONTROL. IT IS BASICALLY RIGHT NOW, FOR GOOD OR EVIL, FOR GOOD OR ILL, IT'S THE MOST SOUGHT AFTER HIGHLY COMPENSATED FORM OF WRITING ON EARTH.

VAL>> SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU DO IT FOR THE MONEY?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> NO, WHAT I'M SAYING IS, EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE IN THE MOVIE BUSINESS NOW. THAT'S DIFFERENT. WHEN I WAS A KID, MOVIES WERE OUR GUILTY PLEASURES. NOW, NOBODY WANTS TO WRITE NOVELS. NOBODY WANTS TO WRITE FOR THE THEATER. THEY WANT TO WRITE MOVIES. MOVIES ARE THE CENTER OF OUR CULTURE AND, SINCE WE CONTROL THE WORLD WITH MOVIES, OUR MOVIES ARE THE -- IT'S ONE OF THE GREAT CHANGES THAT'S HAPPENED SINCE I STARTED WORK, SINCE I STARTED WRITING IN 1956.

VAL>> AGEISM. YOU'RE WORKING, YOU'RE BACK AT WORK --

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> YES. 68 YEARS OLD, STILL HERE. THERE'S A GREAT STEPHEN SONDHEIM SONG, "I'M STILL HERE, GOOD TIMES AND BUM TIMES, I'VE SEEN THEM ALL, MY DEAR, I'M STILL HERE." IT'S AMAZING. THEY DON'T LIKE US. ALL THE STUFF YOU HEAR ABOUT AGEISM IS TRUE. THEY DON'T WANT US, WE COST A LOT, WE'RE CRANKY --

VAL>> MEANING OLDER, EXPERIENCED TYPES?

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> OLDER, EXPERIENCED PEOPLE. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY -- I'M JUST THRILLED THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE STILL WANT ME AND THAT WILL END AGAIN. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I'VE SURVIVED FOR AS LONG AS I HAVE IS I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AND I DON'T THINK A GREAT DEAL -- I THINK THE MINUTE YOU BELIEVE, OUT HERE, THAT YOU'RE WONDERFUL, IT'S OVER. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS NOW IS PEOPLE GET SO PRAISED. EVERYBODY SAYS YOU'RE A GENIUS, YOU'RE FABULOUS, YOU'RE THIS, YOU'RE THAT. I HATE THE WORD -- WHEN I READ YOUNG DIRECTORS ARE GENIUSES, I THINK, "WAIT A MINUTE. LET'S LET TIME DECIDE THAT."

VAL>> WILLIAM GOLDMAN, AUTHOR OF "WHICH LIE DID I TELL?", THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STOPPING BY.

WILLIAM GOLDMAN>> THANK YOU. WASN'T IT WONDERFUL SEEING KATHY BATES AGAIN?

VAL>> IT WAS GREAT.

WARREN>> THAT’S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

WHICH WAY LA IS OFF FOR THE HOLIDAY. WE’LL BE BACK WEDNESDAY OF NEXT WEEK WITH A LOOK AT THE OUTCOME OF MEXICO’S PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

KCRW 89.9 FM, WHICH WAY LA

WEEKDAYS FROM 1-2 P.M.

REBROADCAST AT 7:00 P.M.

VAL>> UNTIL THEN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING AND HAVE A WONDERFUL FOURTH OF JULY.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION

WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION

DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEB SITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.