7/12/00

LC000712

WARREN>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, IT'S ONE OF THOSE OUT-OF-THE-WAY GEMS OF NATURE WANDERING FROM THE MOUNTAINS TO THE OCEAN, BUT IT MAY NOT BE AROUND MUCH LONGER.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE VENTURA RIVER, LONG THE SOURCE OF LIFE AND PROGRESS IN THIS COUNTY, PLACED THIRD ON A LIST OF MOST ENDANGERED WATERWAYS IN AMERICA AND EVERYBODY KNOWS WHY. IT'S THE DAM.

MARK CAPELLI>> IT DOESN'T REALLY SUPPLY ANY KIND OF WATER OF ANY SIGNIFICANCE. IT PROVIDES NO FLOOD PROTECTION. THE DAM IS REALLY READY TO COME DOWN.

WARREN>> IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, HE WAS A SPIRITUAL LEADER OF THE WOODSTOCK GENERATION. NOW RAM DASS TALKS ABOUT THE PROCESS OF AGING AND THE PROSPECT OF DEATH.

RAM DASS>> THE EGO IS AFRAID OF DEATH BECAUSE DEATH IS GOING TO END ITS POWER AND THE SOUL IS NOT AFRAID OF DEATH BECAUSE THE SOUL DOESN'T DIE.

WARREN>> ALSO TONIGHT, CRUISING DOWN THE PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY. IT'S A QUINTESSENTIAL CALIFORNIA EXPERIENCE FOR TOURISTS AND LOCALS ALIKE, BUT OH, WHAT A ROUGH ROAD IT WAS TO BUILD.

THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR WEDNESDAY, JULY 12, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION

WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION

DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY. VAL ZAVALA HAS THE WEEK OFF.

OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, AN AGING STRUCTURE THAT NOBODY LIKES, BUT NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO GET RID OF. IT'S A 53-YEAR-OLD DAM ON THE VENTURA RIVER. CRITICS CALL IT A SILT TUB AND A PUBLIC NUISANCE AND IT'S THE MAIN REASON THAT THE VENTURA RIVER RANKS THIRD ON A NATIONAL LIST OF ENDANGERED STREAMS. AS WE FIRST TOLD YOU BACK IN APRIL, EVEN ENVIRONMENTALISTS ADMIT THAT THE RANKING HAS AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE. IT'S INTENDED TO DRAW NATIONAL ATTENTION TO THE PROBLEM. PHILIP BRUCE HAS THIS REPORT.

PHILIP>> THIS IS A PLACE CALLED THE MATILIJA VALLEY AND THIS IS A RIVER THAT RUNS THROUGH IT. FOLLOW THE WATER AND YOU'LL FIND A PATH THAT STARTS HIGH IN THE MOUNTAINS OF VENTURA COUNTY AND ZIGZAGS DOWNHILL FOR ABOUT SIXTEEN MILES PAST OJAI, THE FREEWAYS AND TOWARD THE OCEAN. IT LOOKS LIKE A SPOT WHERE ALL IS RIGHT WITH NATURE, BUT THE DANGER TO THIS RIVER COMES FROM THE THINGS YOU CANNOT SEE AND FROM THE ONE VERY BIG THING THAT YOU CAN.

THIS IS THE MATILIJA DAM, A MONUMENT OF SORTS TO A BYGONE DAY. IT'S BEEN HERE FOR MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY, BUT TODAY EVERYBODY AGREES IT'S KILLING THE RIVER AND THEY SAY THE DAM HAS GOT TO COME DOWN.

MARK CAPELLI>> WELL, THE FIRST THING TO DO IS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET RID OF THE CONCRETE THAT FORMS THE DAM AND THEN ALSO TO GET RID OF THE SEDIMENT THAT'S BUILT UP BEHIND THE DAM.

PHILIP>> NOBODY KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE RIVER AND THE DAM THAN MARK CAPELLI. HE'S SPENT AT LEAST HALF HIS LIFE WORRYING ABOUT BOTH.

MARK CAPELLI>> IT'S PRETTY MUCH UNANIMOUS THAT THIS DAM HAS OUTLIVED ITS USEFULNESS. IT DOESN'T REALLY SUPPLY ANY KIND OF WATER OF ANY SIGNIFICANCE. IT PROVIDES NO FLOOD PROTECTION. THE DAM IS REALLY READY TO COME DOWN.

PHILIP>> THE MATILIJA CREEK FEEDS THE VENTURA RIVER, BUT THE DAM HAS BECOME A GIANT BARRIER THAT INTERRUPTS THE NATURAL FLOW OF LIFE. THAT INCLUDES MOST KINDS OF FISH, ESPECIALLY THE ONCE PLENTIFUL STEELHEAD, NOW OFFICIALLY ENDANGERED AND ALL BUT INVISIBLE IN THESE WATERS.

AND THEN THERE'S THE PROBLEM WITH THE TONS OF SEDIMENT THAT'S COLLECTED BEHIND THE DAM, SO MUCH OF IT THAT THE ONCE BOUNTIFUL RESERVOIR HAS BEEN REDUCED FROM 7,000 ACRE FEET OF WATER TO JUST 500 ACRE FEET.

MARK CAPELLI>> SAND AND GRAVEL, EVERYTHING FROM SILT TO CAR-SIZE BOULDERS, HAVE BEEN STOPPED BY THE DAM AND THEY'RE ACCUMULATING BEHIND THE DAM. SO THE RESERVOIR ITSELF, INSTEAD OF HOLDING WATER, NOW HOLDS MUD AND DIRT AND ROCK AND GRAVEL.

PHILIP>> PEOPLE IN VENTURA COUNTY HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THE PROBLEM FOR DECADES, BUT JUST THIS MONTH, THEY GOT AN ENVIRONMENTAL WAKEUP CALL. THE VENTURA RIVER, LONG THE SOURCE OF LIFE AND PROGRESS IN THIS COUNTY, PLACED THIRD ON A LIST OF MOST ENDANGERED WATERWAYS IN AMERICA AND EVERYBODY KNOWS WHY. IT'S THE DAM.

JOHN FLYNN>> I THINK IT WAS A MISTAKE AND WE WOULD NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. IT WAS A MISTAKE. IT WAS NOT USEFUL AS A DAM FOR VERY LONG OR AS A FLOOD CONTROL DEVICE.

PHILIP>> JOHN FLYNN, A MEMBER OF THE VENTURA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, SAYS THE DAM WAS A DEBACLE ALMOST FROM THE START. BUILT IN 1947 TO CREATE A WATER SUPPLY FOR THE BOOMING OIL COMMUNITY THAT WAS THEN A DOMINANT FORCE, THE CONCRETE GIANT QUICKLY LOOKED LIKE A BUM DEAL. IT WAS BUILT OF SUBSTANDARD MATERIALS AND AMID RUMORS OF SHADY DEALINGS. AS FOR WORRIES ABOUT THE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT, VENTURA COUNTY IN 1947 WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF AMERICA. NOBODY GAVE IT MUCH THOUGHT.

JOHN FLYNN>> WHEN I LOOK AT IT NOW, I WOULD SAY THAT MANKIND, IN THIS CASE, PEOPLE IN VENTURA COUNTY, MAY HAVE BEEN THINKING WELL AT THE TIME, BUT MAYBE DIDN'T THINK OF ALL THE CONSEQUENCES OF BUILDING A DAM THERE.

PHILIP>> THIS IS ONE OF THOSE RARE ENVIRONMENTAL STORIES WHERE NO REAL OPPOSITION HAS POPPED UP TO STAND IN THE WAY OF GETTING RID OF THIS DAM, BUT THERE IS AN OBSTACLE AND THAT'S MONEY. BACK IN THE LATE 40'S, BUILDING IT COST ABOUT $3 MILLION DOLLARS, BUT TODAY THE COST OF GETTING RID OF THE DAM COULD BE FIFTY TIMES AS MUCH.

THIS IS HOW IT USED TO LOOK WHEN THE MOUNTAINS OF VENTURA COUNTY WERE FREE OF DAMS AND CONCRETE. IN THOSE DAYS, THE RIVER HAD AN UNIMPEDED FLOW TO THE PACIFIC OCEAN WHERE IT FED THE BEACHES WITH NEW SAND. LOOK CLOSELY AND YOU'LL SEE A LADY IN A PRETTY DRESS STANDING ON THE ROCKY RIVERBANK SOMETIME AROUND 1880. BACK THEN AND WELL INTO THE 1940'S, THE RIVER WAS FILLED WITH STEELHEAD, STRINGERS-FULL JUST WAITING TO BE CAUGHT. THOSE ARE THE DAYS THAT JOHN FLYNN REMEMBERS AS A LITTLE BOY GROWING UP IN VENTURA.

JOHN FLYNN>> I USED TO WALK ACROSS DURING CERTAIN TIMES OF THE YEAR INTO THAT RIVER AND THERE WOULD JUST BE HUNDREDS OF STEELHEAD GOING UP THAT RIVER. THEY WOULD HIT YOUR LEGS AND BOUNCE OFF YOUR LEGS, DETERMINED THAT THEY HAD A MISSION.

PHILIP>> TODAY, BY SOME ESTIMATES, THERE MAY BE AS FEW AS FIFTY STEELHEAD LEFT IN THIS SAME RIVER JOHN FLYNN WADED THROUGH AS A BOY. AND IF THE FISH ARE GONE, SO IS MUCH OF THE BEACH. THE MOUTH OF THE VENTURA RIVER, NOT FAR FROM THIS SPOT, USED TO PROVIDE SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE NEW SAND HERE TO REPLENISH THAT WASHED AWAY BY THE OCEAN, BUT THE DAM STOPPED THE SAND FROM WASHING DOWNSTREAM AND NOW THE BEACH IS ALL THE POORER FOR IT.

MARK CAPELLI>> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE CRACKING THE DAM HAS EXPERIENCED. THE DAM HAS GOT AN ALKALI AGGREGATE REACTION. IT'S CAUSED FROM MIXING TWO DIFFERENT KINDS OF MATERIAL FROM DIFFERENT QUARRIES.

PHILIP>> THE GOOD NEWS IS, EXPERTS SAY THE DAM IS STILL SOLID, JUST UGLY. LONG BEFORE THE CONCRETE HAS A CHANCE TO GIVE WAY, THE COUNTY HAS PROMISED TO CUT IT OUT, BLAST IT OUT OR DIG IT OUT. THEY'VE APPEALED TO CONGRESS TO PAY FOR IT, SINCE NOT EVEN A WELL-OFF COUNTY COULD AFFORD TO DROP $150 MILLION DOLLARS ON A WRECKING CREW.

ONCE YOU GET PAST ALL THE PRACTICAL CONCERNS, THINGS LIKE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO TEAR DOWN THE DAM AND WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT, WELL, THAT'S WHEN THE FUN STARTS. BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN YOU START LOOKING AROUND THIS PLACE AND WONDERING WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE ONCE ALL THE CONCRETE AND STEEL ARE GONE AND THE RIVER IS BACK THE WAY IT USED TO BE.

JOHN FLYNN>> YOU WOULD NEVER BUILD A DAM THERE TODAY. THE PEOPLE WOULD NOT ALLOW IT.

PHILIP>> JOHN FLYNN SAYS IT WAS A DIFFERENT DAY AND A DIFFERENT TIME. NOBODY EVER THOUGHT THAT A DAM COULD BE BAD, BUT NOW THAT THEY KNOW BETTER, THERE'S AT LEAST A CHANCE TO FIX IT AND THE RIVER THAT RUNS THROUGH THIS PLACE MAY ONCE AGAIN RUN THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO.

WARREN>> SO WHAT ARE THE PROSPECTS. GIVE US AN UPDATE. ARE THEY HAVING ANY LUCK RAISING ANY MONEY?

PHILIP>> THEY ARE. SINCE WE FIRST BROUGHT YOU THIS STORY LAST APRIL, CONGRESS HAS APPROPRIATED $150,000 TO STUDY THIS SEDIMENT PROBLEM AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS HERE. YOU KNOW, THESE NUMBERS GET SO OVERWHELMING, IT'S HARD TO COMPREHEND, BUT THERE'S SO MUCH SEDIMENT IN THE RESERVOIR BEHIND THAT DAM THAT YOU COULD SPREAD IT OVER 3,000 FOOTBALL FIELDS AND IT WOULD CREATE A LAYER A FOOT DEEP.

WARREN>> WOULD IT FLOW OUT OF THE DAM IF YOU TOOK DOWN THE CEMENT?

PHILIP>> THAT'S ONE OF THE POSSIBLE SCENARIOS IF THEY TAKE THE DAM DOWN. IT COULD FLOW DOWN THE RIVER AND IT COULD ACTUALLY HELP THE BEACHES ON DOWNSTREAM, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A COMPLICATED PROCESS AND NO DEMOLITION IS GOING TO BE AN EASY JOB HERE.

WARREN>> HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE -- I SUPPOSE NOBODY KNOWS THE ANSWER TO THIS EITHER -- BUT HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WOULD TAKE OR ARE THEY ESTIMATING IT WOULD TAKE FOR NATURE TO TAKE OVER, FOR SOMETHING RESEMBLING THE ORIGINAL TO BE RESTORED?

PHILIP>> WELL, ONCE THEY GET THE SEDIMENT PROBLEM ADDRESSED, IT COULD BE A MATTER OF YEARS, IT COULD BE FAIRLY QUICKLY, THEY TELL US, BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE AMOUNT OF RAIN THAT COMES IN, HOW FAST IT WOULD FLOW. THIS FALL, THEY ARE GOING TO GET STARTED. THEY'RE GOING TO CUT THE TOP THIRTY FEET LAYER OFF THE DAM AND THAT WILL BE PART OF THE STUDY PROJECT THERE. FROM THAT POINT ON, THEY'LL HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AS FAR AS DEMOLITION IS CONCERNED.

WARREN>> SO FAR, NO "SAVE THE DAM" GROUP HAS FORMED IN VENTURA COUNTY?

PHILIP>> NO. IN FACT, THIS IS BECOMING THE POSTER CHILD FOR DAM DEMOLITION ACROSS THE COUNTRY. IT'S THE BIGGEST IN AMERICA SO FAR IF IT COMES DOWN.

WARREN>> WOW. OKAY, PHIL, THANKS.

OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW, CRIME IS ON THE RISE IN SOUTH CENTRAL AND EAST LA AND THE NUMBERS SHOW AN UPSURGE IN VIOLENCE AFTER MORE THAN A YEAR OF DECLINE. THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT AT 7:00 P.M.

IN THE 1960'S, A WHOLE GENERATION WAS SEARCHING FOR NEW ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ABOUT LIFE AND LOVE AND WAR AND PEACE. ONE OF THE PEOPLE GUIDING THIS QUEST WAS A FORMER HARVARD PROFESSOR NAMED RAM DASS. THE KEY TO HIS TEACHINGS IN THOSE DAYS WAS SUMMED UP IN THE TITLE OF HIS BOOK "BE HERE NOW", ADVISING THE READER TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT. RAM DASS NOW HAS A NEW BOOK ENTITLED "STILL HERE", WHICH DEALS WITH THE CONCEPT THE 60'S GENERATION IS GETTING TO KNOW ALL TOO WELL. VAL RECENTLY SPOKE WITH HIM ABOUT THE STROKE HE HAD WHILE WRITING THE BOOK, WHICH SOMETIMES MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO FIND THE RIGHT WORDS. THAT'S IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

VAL>> RAM DASS, IT'S SUCH AN HONOR TO HAVE YOU HERE. YOU HAVE WRITTEN A NEW BOOK CALLED "STILL HERE", EMBRACING AGING, CHANGING AND DYING. YOU FOUND THAT, AS YOU WERE ABOUT TO WRITE THE LAST CHAPTER, SOMETHING TRAUMATIC HAPPENED TO YOU. TELL US ABOUT THAT.

RAM DASS>> I HAD A STROKE. I WAS IN BED AND I WAS TRYING TO THINK OF THE ENDING OF THIS BOOK. I REALIZED I'D HAVE TO BE OLDER OR FRAILER OR SOMETHING. THE TELEPHONE RANG AND I JUMPED OUT OF BED AND THIS LEG WAS VERY WEAK. THEN THE SYMPTOMS CAME FROM THE STROKE. I SAID THOSE WERE OLD MAN SYMPTOMS FROM MY FANTASY.

VAL>> PERHAPS IT'S A TESTAMENT TO THE POWER OF THOUGHT.

RAM DASS>> YES.

VAL>> BUT IT GAVE YOU INCREDIBLE INSIGHT INTO WHAT IT'S REALLY, REALLY LIKE TO FACE OLD AGE, WHICH, OF COURSE, IN OUR CULTURE, WHICH YOU DEAL WITH A LOT, OLD AGE IS SOMETHING TO BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. YOU'RE SAYING THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY SO?

RAM DASS>> WELL, IT'S FOR OUR EGO YOU WANT TO BE YOUNG, BUT IF YOU HAVE A SOUL GOING TOWARDS GOD, THEN IT'S A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL STAGE. IN INDIA, WHEN YOU'RE SIXTY, YOU'RE DONE WITH BUSINESS, YOU'RE DONE WITH FAMILY AND YOU'RE JUST AIMING TOWARDS GOD, AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE DONE.

VAL>> AND THAT'S HOW THEY, IN INDIA, DEFINE THAT PART OF LIFE AS THE TIME TO TURN INWARD, THE TIME TO TURN TOWARD GOD. WE DON'T HAVE THAT IN OUR CULTURE YET.

RAM DASS>> I USED TO WORK A LOT WITH DYING. I WAS AMAZED AT HOW THIS CULTURE APPROACHES DYING. I MEAN, IT TURNS AWAY. THIS CULTURE HAS ONE MORE BOOGIE MAN AND THAT'S IN AGING.

VAL>> SO HOW DO WE UNDO ALL THE CONDITIONING --

RAM DASS>> -- THE CULTURE.

VAL>> -- THE CULTURE? WE'VE BEEN TOLD YOUTH IS BEAUTIFUL, YOUTH IS WONDERFUL, STAY YOUNG, FIGHT IT AT ANY COST, GET PLASTIC SURGERY, WORK OUT, DO EVERYTHING TO STAVE OFF AGING.

RAM DASS>> IT'S SILLY TO GO AGAINST NATURE. IT'S REALLY SILLY. IF YOU SEE AN OLD HAND, THERE IS A TREMENDOUS BEAUTY IN IT. AND WRINKLES ARE BEAUTIFUL.

VAL>> SO MUCH OF YOUR BOOK DEALS WITH FACING FEARS, BECAUSE AGING IS REALLY NOTHING BUT A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS THAT WE'RE FEARFUL OF. YOU MENTION YOUR BODY IMAGE DECLINES, WE LOSE ENERGY, OUR SEXUALITY GOES, WE BECOME DEPENDENT. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE FEAR?

RAM DASS>> WELL, I WAS VERY INDEPENDENT.

VAL>> VERY.

RAM DASS>> VERY. I WAS VERY INDEPENDENT -- TSK, TSK, TSK. I SUDDENLY FOUND FROM WAKING UP AND GOING TO BED, I WAS DEPENDENT. YET, THE DEPENDENCY IS TEACHING ME WHOLE NEW THINGS ABOUT MYSELF AND ABOUT PEOPLE.

VAL>> LIKE WHAT?

RAM DASS>> IT GOT ME INTO A WHOLE NEW ROLE AND THAT WAS A WHOLE NEW -- LIKE, I HAD A SPORTS CAR, AN MG, AND IT HAD A STICK SHIFT WHICH THIS -- YOU KNOW. NOW, WITH THE STROKE, I'M BECOMING A CHAUFFEURED AND CHAUFFEURED GIVES ME A CHANCE TO REGISTER SO MANY THINGS BECAUSE (LOOKING AROUND) LIKE THAT AND DRIVING, VOOM. THIS IS FINE, THIS IS FINE.

VAL>> SO CAN YOU HONESTLY SAY THAT YOU ARE NOT AFRAID OF DEATH, OF DYING? HAVE YOU GOTTEN TO THAT POINT YET? I WOULD IMAGINE IF ANYBODY IN THIS WORLD HAS GOTTEN TO THIS POINT, YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN TO THE POINT. IS THAT TRUE?

RAM DASS>> NO. I'M STILL AFRAID, BUT THE AMOUNT I'M AFRAID, THIS, WENT DOWN TO THIS. I'M A LITTLE BIT AFRAID AND I'M JUST WATCHING THE UNIVERSE UNFOLD. THE EGO IS AFRAID OF DEATH BECAUSE DEATH IS GOING TO END ITS POWER AND THE SOUL IS NOT AFRAID OF DEATH BECAUSE THE SOUL DOESN'T DIE. SO ONE OF THE EFFECTS OF THE STROKE IS, IT PUSHED ME INTO MY SOUL, SO I THINK I'M IDENTIFIED WITH THAT WHICH DOESN'T CHANGE.

VAL>> RAM DASS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HELPING US TO FACE DYING, WHICH IS REALLY HELPING US TO FACE LIVING, REALLY.

RAM DASS>> YES.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

RAM DASS>> THANK YOU.

WARREN>> SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RAM DASS, HIS PERSPECTIVE ON GETTING OLDER AND HIS IDEAS ON THE SUBJECT OF DEATH? WE WOULD LIKE VERY MUCH TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS OR ANY OF OUR REPORTS ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG

WWW.KCET.ORG.

LIFE & TIMES TONIGHT

4401 SUNSET BLVD.

LOS ANGELES, CA 90027

(323) 953-5555

WARREN>> THERE IS SOMETHING EXHILARATING, WE ALL KNOW IT, ABOUT A COMBINATION OF SUN AND SURF AND SPECTACULAR SCENERY. ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO GET THAT EXPERIENCE IS CRUISING ALONG ON PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY. PCH HAS EMBODIED THE SPIRIT OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SINCE IT WAS OPENED BACK IN THE 1920'S. WE MAP OUT THE HISTORY OF THE PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

PCH STRETCHES 250 MILES BETWEEN SANTA BARBARA AND SAN DIEGO. IT ORIGINALLY WAS BUILT JUST TO LINK ISOLATED COMMUNITIES ALONG THE COAST. IT WAS ONLY LATER THAT IT BECAME ONE OF THE NATION'S PREMIER SCENIC HIGHWAYS AND A PRIME ADDRESS FOR OCEANFRONT REAL ESTATE. HERE WITH MORE IS MATT ROTH. HE'S HISTORIAN WITH THE AUTOMOBILE CLUB OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

MATT ROTH>> MY PLEASURE.

WARREN>> THIS WAS QUITE AN ENGINEERING FEAT TO GET THIS THING FROM SANTA BARBARA DOWN TO SAN DIEGO.

MATT ROTH>> IT WAS SPECTACULAR AND SOME OF THE STILLS THAT YOU SHOWED WHEN YOU WERE LEADING IN SHOWED SOME OF THE MORE DIFFICULT CONSTRUCTION IN SYCAMORE CANYON IN VENTURA COUNTY WHERE THEY HAD TO BLAST A SHELF DOWN INTO THE CLIFF AND THEN THEY COULDN'T EVEN GET THE SHELF TO BE STABLE AND THEY EVENTUALLY HAD TO EXTEND IT OUT INTO THE OCEAN IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO LAY PAVEMENT ON IT.

SOME OF THE MOVING FOOTAGE THAT WE HAVE TONIGHT SHOWS SOME OF THE PLACES WHERE IT WAS A LITTLE EASIER TO BUILD IT IN ORANGE COUNTY WHERE THERE WASN'T DIFFICULT TOPOGRAPHY, BUT SOME EARLIER ATTEMPTS TO DO IT STILL BROUGHT DIFFICULTY.

WARREN>> LET US BEGIN TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY. THIS IS AS IT LOOKED IN, WHEN, ABOUT 1930?

MATT ROTH>> EXACTLY RIGHT. ROLLING SOUTH OF SAN CLEMENTE, OR ACTUALLY SOUTH OF DANA POINT GOING INTO SAN CLEMENTE.

WARREN>> OKAY.

MATT ROTH>> AND YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A GAS STATION ON THE LEFT HERE, ONE OF THE FIRST ROADSIDE BUSINESSES ON THE PCH BECAUSE THE ROAD CAME BEFORE ANY OF THE TOURIST CULTURE OR ANY OF THE REGIONAL IDENTIFICATION WITH SUN AND SURF.

WARREN>> WHERE DID THEY GET THE MONEY? IF THERE WEREN'T ANY BUSINESSES ALONG THE WAY AND NOT A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES EITHER, WHERE DID THEY GET THE MONEY TO BUILD THE ROAD?

MATT ROTH>> GAS TAX. THE CONSTRUCTION REALLY BEGAN IN 1923 WHEN THE STATE LEGISLATURES PASSED A TAX ON GASOLINE. BEFORE THAT, THERE HAD BEEN A COUPLE OF BOND ISSUES, BUT THEY HADN'T REALLY BEEN ABLE TO MAKE MUCH PROGRESS ON IT. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE EARLIER ATTEMPTS WEREN'T REALLY ADEQUATE AND WHY THE ROAD WAS TOO NARROW. THE PAVEMENT WASN'T THICK ENOUGH, IT WASN'T REINFORCED, THE ROADBED ITSELF WAS NARROW AND THEY ENDED UP BURYING IT IN --

WARREN>> -- SO FINALLY THEY DID IT RIGHT?

MATT ROTH>> WELL, FINALLY, THEY HAD THE MONEY TO DO IT RIGHT AND THEY LEARNED THEIR LESSON ALONG THE WAY.

WARREN>> SURE. LET'S TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT SOME MORE OF THE ROAD. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF VIDEO OF IT. THERE WE ARE, THE GREAT CAR WITH THE MOTORCYCLES IN FRONT OF IT. ARE THOSE COPS ON THE MOTORCYCLES?

MATT ROTH>> THEY'RE ACTUALLY LA COUNTY SHERIFFS WHO WERE ESCORTING THIS. THIS WAS A TRIP FOR HIGHWAY OFFICIALS BECAUSE THIS PARTICULAR STRETCH OF THE PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY THAT YOU JUST SAW THERE WAS TESTED OUT AS THE SMOOTHEST PAVEMENT IN CALIFORNIA AT THE TIME AND HAD THIS MACHINE TO TEST IT OUT.

WARREN>> SO THE OFFICIALS GOT TO RIDE ON THAT PART?

MATT ROTH>> WELL, THEY WERE SHOWING IT OFF. THEY WANTED TO SHOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT, HOW TO BUILD A ROAD, YEAH.

WARREN>> I THINK YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT THERE WAS A GAS STATION ALONG THE WAY. I THINK WE HAVE A FREEZE FRAME OF THE STATION WITH THE CAR AND OTHER VEHICLES PARKED AT IT. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

MATT ROTH>> OKAY. WELL, THERE IT IS ON THE LEFT AND YOU CAN SEE IT HAS THE PAVILION FOR THE PUMP ISLAND. THIS IS THE KIND OF DRIVE-THROUGH ARCHITECTURE THAT WAS PIONEERED JUST IN THE PRECEDING DECADE WHEN THE GASOLINE PUMPS HAD TO MOVE OFF THE STREET FOR SAFETY REASONS. THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THE GERM OF THE COMMERCIAL STRIP AND IT'S VERY RARE THAT YOU GET TO SEE THIS ISOLATED BY ITSELF BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS THE PLACES WHERE THERE'S ADEQUATE TRAFFIC TO SUPPORT BUSINESSES LIKE THIS, THEY COME ONE AFTER ANOTHER, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN ITS ORIGINS.

WARREN>> JUST THAT ONE BUILDING SITTING OUT THERE. WHAT DOES THAT STRIP LOOK LIKE NOW?

MATT ROTH>> WELL, A LOT OF IT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN BYPASSED BY THE SUBSEQUENT INTERSTATE CONSTRUCTION, SO IT LOOKS KIND OF LIKE A 1950'S CULTURAL LANDSCAPE, A LOT OF THE BUILDINGS FROM THAT PERIOD.

WARREN>> LET'S TAKE ANOTHER LOOK. I THINK WE GOT ANOTHER FILM CLIP SHOWING AS WE'RE GETTING INTO OCEANSIDE HERE.

MATT ROTH>> THAT'S RIGHT. THIS IS OCEANSIDE AND YOU CAN SEE IT'S REALLY JUST A KIND OF SLEEPY COMMUNITY. THE IDEA OF TAKING A VACATION THERE HASN'T TAKEN ROOT YET. I MEAN, THIS IS AN AREA WHERE THE ECONOMY WAS BASED ON CITRUS RANCHING AND SOME CATTLE RANCHING AND THE ROAD CREATED THE ECONOMY BASED ON VACATIONING AND VISITING. THIS IS COMING INTO DEL MAR, JUST THE NORTHERN PART OF THE DEL MAR, AND WE'LL COME OVER THAT CAUSEWAY, I THINK, IN A SECOND. THERE IT IS. WELL, WE MISSED IT.

WARREN>> WELL, WE ALMOST SAW THE CAUSEWAY.

MATT ROTH>> WELL, IT WAS THERE.

WARREN>> DID ANYBODY ANTICIPATE THAT, WHEN THE ROAD WENT IN, ALL OF THIS CIVILIZATION WOULD FOLLOW? WAS THAT THE IDEA?

MATT ROTH>> NO, IT DEFINITELY WASN'T. THE FIRST LEGAL MENTION OF THE PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY WAS IN THE 1910 BOND ISSUE FOR ROAD CONSTRUCTION. THE POINT WAS TO CONNECT COUNTY SEATS BECAUSE HERE'S THIS BIG SPRAWLING STATE AND AUTOMOBILES ARE BEGINNING TO COME INTO USE, BUT THERE'S NO WAY THAT THEY CAN GO ALL OVER THE STATE. SO IT WAS REALLY JUST A WAY TO CONNECT COUNTY SEATS.

THE IDEA OF A SCENIC AND RECREATIONAL ROAD IS SOMETHING THAT GREW DURING THE CONSTRUCTION. THE ENGINEERS, THE STATE ENGINEERS, AND IN SOME LOCATIONS, THE COUNTY ENGINEERS WHO ASSISTED WITH THE BRIDGES, ARE THE ONES WHO FIRST EXPERIENCED THAT KIND OF EXHILARATION. THEY FELT THIS IS REALLY GOING TO BE SOMETHING SPECIAL.

WARREN>> LET'S GET ANOTHER LOOK. WE HAVE A LITTLE MORE VIDEO HERE TO SHOW WHILE WE FINISH OUR CONVERSATION. OH BOY, THERE WE ARE.

MATT ROTH>> OH, IT'S COMING -- WELL, THE ROAD WENT RIGHT THROUGH --

WARREN>> -- IT'S A BIG CITY.

MATT ROTH>> -- YEAH, THAT'S SAN DIEGO, DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO. IT WENT RIGHT THROUGH DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO, DOWNTOWN LONG BEACH, AND NOW THEY'RE HEADING, IN A SECOND, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE IN THIS CLIP, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE BORDER AT TIJUANA. IT IS A VERY SMALL KIND OF INFORMAL, CASUAL -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS SO -- I MEAN, NOW THE BORDER IS SO INSTITUTIONALIZED AND YOU MIGHT EVEN SAY MILITARIZED. IT DOESN'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN ORSON WELLS SHOT "A TOUCH OF EVIL" IN THE 1950'S, THE BORDER CROSSING DIDN'T LOOK MENACING ENOUGH, SO YOU KNOW WHERE THEY SHOT THAT?

WARREN>> NO.

MATT ROTH>> VENICE.

WARREN>> VENICE, CALIFORNIA?

MATT ROTH>> YEAH.

WARREN>> WELL, THERE ARE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES TO EVERYTHING, RIGHT? THE ROAD BRINGS THE CIVILIZATION, IT EVEN BRINGS ORSON WELLS.

MATT ROTH>> YEAH, OR NOT. THERE IT IS. THERE'S THE BORDER CROSSING.

WARREN>> OH, DID WE SEE IT?

MATT ROTH>> YEAH, IT WAS THERE.

WARREN>> OKAY, THERE IT WAS. GONE NOW. THANKS SO MUCH, AS ALWAYS, FOR BEING WITH US. TALK TO YOU AGAIN SOON.

MATT ROTH>> IT'S MY PLEASURE.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, LOW-POWER RADIO IS MAKING A BIG NOISE. WHAT DO THE MAJOR MEDIA AND EVEN NPR HAVE TO FEAR FROM RELIGIOUS AND NEIGHBORHOOD BROADCASTS? THAT'S TOMORROW.

KCRW 89.9 FM, WHICH WAY LA

WEEKDAYS FROM 1-2 P.M.

REBROADCAST AT 7:00 P.M.

WARREN>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION

WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION

DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

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