7/20/00

LC000720

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> PEOPLE IN ONE LONG BEACH COMMUNITY SAY THEY NEED THEIR HOSPITAL AND THEY PUT UP A FIGHT WHEN THEY FOUND OUT IT WAS ABOUT TO CLOSE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> LONG BEACH COMMUNITY IS SMALL, ONLY 278 BEDS, BUT IT'S BEEN IN THE AFFLUENT EAST LONG BEACH AREA FOR 76 YEARS. EIGHTEEN MONTHS AGO, IT WAS BOUGHT BY A CATHOLIC HOSPITAL CHAIN BASED IN SAN FRANCISCO. THE CHAIN CALLED CATHOLIC HEALTHCARE WEST, OR CHW, PROMISED TO KEEP LONG BEACH COMMUNITY OPEN. THEN LAST MONTH, THE NEW OWNERS ANNOUNCED THEY'D BE CLOSING THE HOSPITAL BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

BETTY KELLER>> DURING THE LAST EIGHTEEN MONTHS, I AND MY VICE CHAIRMAN HAVE BEEN WINED AND DINED ALL THROUGH THE EIGHTEEN MONTHS AND WE HAVE BEEN DUPED.

VAL>> ON TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, PROTESTERS MAY FILL THE STREETS AROUND STAPLES CENTER AFTER ALL. WE'LL TALK WITH STATE SENATOR, TOM HAYDEN, ABOUT A JUDGE'S DECISION TO LET FREE SPEECH RULE.

WARREN>> ALSO TONIGHT, PATT MORRISON FOCUSES HER GAZE ON THE POLITICS OF PROTEST.

PATT>> DOES REALITY REALLY MATTER ANY MORE? TV AND THE POLITICAL MASHPIT ON TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> AND A CHANCE TO PEEK INSIDE ONE OF LA'S HOT SPOTS, THE LA BREA TAR PITS. FOSSILS HAVE BEEN BUBBLING UP FROM THE BLACK DEPTHS FOR CENTURIES. NOW YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO SEE IT FIRSTHAND.

WARREN>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR THURSDAY, JULY 20, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, THE LAST-DITCH EFFORT TO SAVE A LOCAL HOSPITAL. THE LONG BEACH MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER HAS SERVED PEOPLE IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE CITY FOR THREE-QUARTERS OF A CENTURY. THE HOSPITAL WAS SOLD LAST YEAR AND THE NEW OWNERS PLAN TO SHUT IT DOWN THIS FALL.

VAL>> THE HOSPITAL'S DOCTORS AND THE PEOPLE WHO IT SERVED HAVE RALLIED TO ITS SUPPORT. THEY'VE COME UP WITH A PLAN TO KEEP LONG BEACH COMMUNITY MEDICAL CENTER OPEN AND, AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, IT JUST MIGHT WORK.

PHILIP>> THE SMALL GROUP OF DEMONSTRATORS OUTSIDE TUESDAY'S LONG BEACH CITY COUNCIL MEETING WANTS TO KEEP THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD HOSPITAL OPEN. STOP DISMANTLING LONG BEACH COMMUNITY MEDICAL CENTER, SAY THE SIGNS. DOCTORS, NURSES, VOLUNTEERS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS ALL WANT THE CITY'S HELP IN SAVING THEIR HOSPITAL.

LONG BEACH COMMUNITY IS SMALL, ONLY 278 BEDS, BUT IT'S BEEN IN THE AFFLUENT EAST LONG BEACH AREA FOR 76 YEARS. EIGHTEEN MONTHS AGO, IT WAS BOUGHT BY A CATHOLIC HOSPITAL CHAIN BASED IN SAN FRANCISCO. THE CHAIN, CALLED CATHOLIC HEALTHCARE WEST, OR CHW, PROMISED TO KEEP LONG BEACH COMMUNITY OPEN. THEN LAST MONTH, THE NEW OWNERS ANNOUNCED THEY'D BE CLOSING THE HOSPITAL BY THE END OF THE YEAR. LONG BEACH COMMUNITY PATIENTS WOULD INSTEAD BE SERVED BY ANOTHER CHW FACILITY, ST. MARY MEDICAL CENTER, LOCATED ABOUT FIVE MILES AWAY IN A MUCH GRITTIER AREA OF THE CITY. THE DECISION HAS OUTRAGED A WOMAN WHO SERVED ON COMMUNITY'S BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR 25 YEARS. SHE NOW HEADS THE HOSPITAL'S ADVISORY BOARD.

BETTY KELLER>> DURING THE LAST EIGHTEEN MONTHS, I AND MY VICE CHAIRMAN HAVE BEEN WINED AND DINED ALL THROUGH THE EIGHTEEN MONTHS AND WE HAVE BEEN DUPED AND I AM THE FIRST ONE TO TELL YOU, THEY CONVINCED ME THAT THEIR INTENTIONS WERE HONORABLE.

PHILIP>> INITIALLY, BETTY KELLER HAD URGED THE HOSPITAL'S LEADERS TO SUPPORT THE SAN FRANCISCO-BASED CHAIN. SHE SAYS SHE BELIEVED THAT CHW WANTED TO HELP TURN AROUND THE FINANCIALLY TROUBLED FACILITY, BUT NOW SHE SEES THEIR PROMISES VERY DIFFERENTLY.

BETTY KELLER>> THEY WERE ALL NOT CARRIED OUT AND I FEEL FROM THE VERY START THEY WERE LIES.

PHILIP>> IN KELLER'S VIEW, WHAT CHW REALLY WANTED FROM THE OUTSET WAS TO CLOSE LONG BEACH COMMUNITY MEDICAL CENTER. COMMUNITY HEART SURGEON, GUY LEMIRE, AGREES WITH HER.

DR. GUY LEMIRE>> I THINK PERSONALLY THAT THIS WAS SORT OF A PREDETERMINED PLAN THAT CHW HAD TO COME TO TOWN, THEY OWN TWO HOSPITALS, THEY WANT TO CLOSE ONE.

PHILIP>> AT FIRST, LEMIRE HAD BEEN OPTIMISTIC THAT CHW WOULD PRESERVE THE HOSPITAL, BUT HE SOON QUESTIONED THAT.

DR. GUY LEMIRE>> IT SEEMED VERY QUICKLY THAT THAT WASN'T THEIR AGENDA. THERE WAS AN AGENDA THAT WAS SORT OF GUIDED NOT FROM LONG BEACH, BUT FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. IT CAME FROM UP ABOVE RATHER THAN GRASS ROOTS.

PHILIP>> AN EARLY SIGN OF TROUBLE, LEMIRE SAYS, WAS THE DECISION TO OVERRULE A DOCTORS COMMITTEE AND SHUT DOWN COMMUNITY'S WELL-RESPECTED OPEN HEART SURGERY CENTER AND TRANSFER IT TO ST. MARY'S WHERE THERE WAS A MUCH SMALLER PROGRAM.

DR. GUY LEMIRE>> WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE HEART PROGRAM, IT SORT OF DIMINISHES THE TOTAL STANDARD THAT A HOSPITAL OF THIS LEVEL SHOULD HAVE, SO I'M STILL REELING FROM IT. BUT NONETHELESS I GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAYS, I PRAY, AND I PRAY THAT WE FIND SOME SOLUTION TO KEEP THIS CENTER OPEN.

PHILIP>> COMMUNITY'S BACKERS HAVE FOUND SUPPORT AMONG LONG BEACH CITY OFFICIALS. COUNCIL MEMBER, FRANK COLONNA, SAYS THE CITY WAS BLIND-SIDED.

FRANK COLONNA>> CLOSING THE HOSPITAL IS UNACCEPTABLE. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A GIANT HOLE IN THE CITY IN TERMS OF PROVIDING MEDICAL CARE, ESPECIALLY IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION.

PHILIP>> EMERGENCY ROOM NURSE, KAREN BLAIR, AGREES.

KAREN BLAIR>> WELL, I'M FRIGHTENED FOR THE COMMUNITY OF NOT ONLY EAST LONG BEACH, BUT ALL OF LONG BEACH BECAUSE THE HOSPITALS ARE ALREADY BOTTLE-NECKED, MEANING THE PARAMEDICS CANNOT TAKE RUNS TO THE FACILITIES. THEY GO ON DIVERT. THEY CLOSE TO PARAMEDIC RUNS AND THEN THEY COME TO COMMUNITY. JUST ON FRIDAY AND SATURDAY EVENING SHIFT, 3 TO 11 P.M., LONG BEACH MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER, AS WELL AS ST. MARY MEDICAL CENTER, WERE ON DIVERT AGAIN, MEANING CLOSED, SO THEN ALL THE PATIENTS HAD TO COME TO LONG BEACH COMMUNITY MEDICAL CENTER AND THEY GOT SIX PARAMEDIC RUNS WITHIN LIKE A THREE-HOUR TIME SPAN.

PHILIP>> MARYANNE GIBBONS BELIEVES THAT, WITHOUT COMMUNITY, HER FATHER'S HEART ATTACK WOULD HAVE KILLED HIM.

MARYANNE GIBBONS>> IF HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO GO TO LONG BEACH MEMORIAL OR ST. MARY'S, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN TIME OF THE ESSENCE HERE. CHANCES ARE, AND THE DOCTORS EVEN SAID, THAT HE MAY NOT HAVE MADE IT.

PHILIP>> CHW DECLINED TO PROVIDE A SPOKESMAN TO TALK TO LIFE AND TIMES AND REFERRED INSTEAD TO AN EARLIER STATEMENT THAT CLOSING THE HOSPITAL WAS AN ISSUE OF MONEY, THAT IT LOST $13.5 MILLION DOLLARS LAST YEAR. BUT THERE'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT.

IN A JOINT PRESS RELEASE YESTERDAY, CHW AND THE CITY OF LONG BEACH STATED THAT THE CITY WAS CONSIDERING A PROPOSAL FROM THE HOSPITAL CHAIN. ONCE THE FACILITY IS CLOSED, CHW WOULD TURN THE PROPERTY BACK OVER TO THE CITY TO SEE IF ANOTHER GROUP COULD COME UP WITH A PLAN TO OPERATE IT. BETTY KELLER IS HOPEFUL. SHE SAYS SOME WHO'VE ALREADY LEFT ARE EAGER TO COME BACK ONCE CHW IS GONE.

BETTY KELLER>> WE HAVE CONTRACTS THAT ARE JUST WAITING TO COME BACK. WE HAVE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENTS THAT'S JUST WAITING TO COME BACK. WE HAVE DOCTORS THAT ARE WAITING TO COME BACK.

PHILIP>> BUT ONE QUESTION IS, EXACTLY WHAT WILL THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO?

DR. GUY LEMIRE>> THE SERVICES ARE DISAPPEARING EACH MONTH AND THE CORE SERVICES ARE LEAVING. OUR NURSES ARE LEAVING, OUR TECHNICIANS ARE LEAVING. WE'VE VIRTUALLY DISMANTLED OUR ANESTHESIA DEPARTMENT.

PHILIP>> AND WHERE HAVE THEY GONE? ACCORDING TO LEMIRE, NOT TO ST. MARY'S, BUT TO ANOTHER MAJOR CENTER, LONG BEACH MEMORIAL.

DR. GUY LEMIRE>> THE MERGER BETWEEN LONG BEACH COMMUNITY HOSPITAL AND ST. MARY'S HAS NOT HAPPENED. A MERGER BETWEEN LONG BEACH COMMUNITY HOSPITAL AND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL HAS HAPPENED, BY DEFAULT.

PHILIP>> LEMIRE BELIEVES THAT A LOT OF THE STAFF WILL RETURN IF THE CITY FINDS NEW OWNERS, BUT HE WORRIES ABOUT WHAT WILL BE LEFT ONCE CHW WALKS AWAY FOR THE LAST TIME.

DR. GUY LEMIRE>> RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE STRIPPING THE HOSPITAL. THEY ARE MOVING VERY FAST, FASTER THAN I'VE EVER SEEN THEM MOVE, IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE THEIR DAMAGE, I BELIEVE, AND THEIR BAD PRESS.

WARREN>> SO CHW HASN'T RESPONDED ON CAMERA. HAVE THEY HAD ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THESE CLAIMS THAT THEY DECEIVED PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR REAL INTENTIONS?

PHILIP>> WELL, THEY DENY IT. THEY SAY IT CLEARLY WAS A MATTER OF MONEY AND THEY CITE SEVERAL FACTORS, THE MOST IMPORTANT OF WHICH BEING DECREASING FEDERAL SUBSIDIES AND LOWER MEDI-CAL PAYMENTS AS BEING PARAMOUNT IN THEIR DECISION THERE. ALSO, THEY SAY THERE'S A SURPLUS OF HOSPITAL BEDS IN THE AREA AND SO IT JUST BECAME ECONOMICALLY UNFEASIBLE TO STAY IN BUSINESS THERE.

VAL>> BUT DON'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LOOK AT THOSE FIGURES, THOSE NUMBERS, AND PREDICT THAT THE COMMUNITY HOSPITAL WOULD HAVE TO BE CLOSED?

PHILIP>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE CRITICS SAY. IN FACT, THEY SAY CHW ALL ALONG HAD PLANS TO CHERRY-PICK THE BEST OUT OF THE HOSPITAL, OUT OF COMMUNITY, AND -- TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE OPEN HEART SURGERY UNIT, THE PEDIATRIC INTENSIVE CARE UNIT. TAKE IT OVER, STICK IT IN ST. MARY'S AND GET RID OF THE COMPETITION IN THE PROCESS. THEY DENY THAT.

VAL>> WELL, WE'LL SEE IF THE PLAN WITH THE CITY WORKS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PHIL, FOR THAT REPORT.

IN OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW, SHOULD BIG DRUG COMPANIES BE SPENDING MILLIONS ON ADS PROMISING PILLS THAT WILL CURE WHAT AILS YOU?

>> THE PUBLIC WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A PILL TO FIX ITS PROBLEMS JUST LIKE THAT. WOULDN'T THAT BE WONDERFUL? I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING SHY ANYMORE WHEN I GIVE A LECTURE. I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING DEPRESSED OR UNHAPPY. I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING ANXIOUS OR ANGRY. I CAN JUST TAKE A PILL AND BLISS OUT.

VAL>> THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT AT 7:00 P.M.

WARREN>> THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT IS SCRAMBLING TO REVAMP ITS PLANS FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION. AS YOU MAY KNOW, A FEDERAL JUDGE RULED YESTERDAY THAT PLANS TO KEEP PROTESTERS AWAY FROM STAPLES CENTER WERE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

VAL>> THE JUDGE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE SECURITY ZONE THAT POLICE HAD DRAWN AROUND THE CONVENTION SITE. WELL, YESTERDAY THE JUDGE RULED IN FAVOR OF PROTEST GROUPS WHO SAID THE CITY HAD DISREGARDED THEIR FREE SPEECH RIGHTS IN BLOCKING OFF SUCH A LARGE AREA. ONE OF THE PLAINTIFFS IN THAT SUIT IS CALIFORNIA SENATOR, TOM HAYDEN, WHO IS OUR GUEST IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

WARREN>> HERE HE IS JOINING US NOW, STATE SENATOR TOM HAYDEN. GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

TOM HAYDEN>> NICE TO BE HERE.

WARREN>> LAPD ALREADY SAYS THAT IT'S GOING TO COST THEM 100 POLICE -- THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE 100 POLICE PEOPLE PRESENT EVERY DAY BECAUSE OF THIS CHANGE IN THEIR PLANS IN ORDER TO PROVIDE SECURITY FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THEY APPARENTLY TOLD THAT TO THE CITY COUNCIL TODAY. THAT'S A LOT OF OVERTIME AND A LOT OF MONEY.

TOM HAYDEN>> WELL, IT'S BASED ON A FALSE PROJECTION THAT 70,000 PROTESTERS ARE COMING HERE. WHEN THEY DON'T, THEN THE POLICE WILL CLAIM THEY SCARED THEM AWAY. THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH MISINFORMATION ABOUT THIS WHOLE ISSUE. I'M VERY PROUD THAT THE COURTS TOOK A LOOK AND THAT THE JUDGE MADE A VERY, VERY CLEAR RULING WHICH I READ AS YOU CAN HAVE A SAFE CONVENTION, A SAFE CITY. YOU CAN ALSO HAVE DEMONSTRATIONS. THEY CAN EVEN BE CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. PEOPLE CAN GET ARRESTED. ALL THAT CAN BE MANAGED, BUT YOU SHOULDN'T FENCE IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT HE BASICALLY SAID.

WARREN>> HOW DO YOU KNOW, THOUGH, THAT THE PROJECTIONS ARE FALSE, GIVEN WHAT HAPPENED IN SEATTLE, WHAT HAPPENED IN WASHINGTON AND ALL THE INTELLIGENCE THAT THE LAPD CLAIMS THAT IT'S DOING?

TOM HAYDEN>> I THINK YOU'LL SEE THE RESULTS UNFOLD, BUT, I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE 70,000 PEOPLE IN SEATTLE, BUT 40,000 OF THEM WERE MEMBERS OF TRADE UNIONS. THEY WON'T BE IN THESE DEMONSTRATIONS. IT'S JUST PREPOSTEROUS. SEATTLE TOOK A YEAR TO ORGANIZE. THIS HAS TAKEN A FEW WEEKS. I'M NOT SAYING THERE WON'T BE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. IT'S JUST THAT THE -- WHAT IS WITH OUR CIVIC LEADERSHIP? THERE'S A TENDENCY TO -- IT'S LIKE A SYNDROME, A HEALTH SYNDROME. WHEN AUTHORITIES GET NERVOUS, THEY'RE THREATENED, THEY GO INTO THIS OVER-REACTION SYNDROME. I THINK THE JUDGE HAS CALMED PEOPLE DOWN. THE MAYOR NOW KNOWS HE CAN'T GET HIS WAY. BUT THERE'LL BE A LOT OF COMPLEXITY NOW BECAUSE NOW THEY'LL BE ARGUING LIKE ON A CHESSBOARD. CAN YOU GO UP THIS STREET OR THAT STREET. IT'S BY NO MEANS OVER.

VAL>> WELL, THAT'S PRECISELY THE NEXT STEP. THE NEXT STEP IS WHAT? THE CITY AND THE LAPD HAVE TO GO BACK AND REDRAW THESE BOUNDARIES OR DID THE JUDGE SET THOSE BOUNDARIES FOR THEM?

TOM HAYDEN>> NO, THE JUDGE GAVE SOME HINTS, BUT I THINK WHAT WE SOUGHT WAS THE JUDGE TO JUST SAY YOU CAN'T FENCE THE FIRST AMENDMENT IN AND THAT'S --

VAL>> -- I THINK THEY WERE KEEPING THEM AWAY, IT SEEMS LIKE, TWO AND A HALF FOOTBALL FIELDS?

TOM HAYDEN>> SO FAR AWAY THAT THEY CAN'T BE SEEN, BUT ALSO, GOING TO THE LAPD TO GET A LOTTERY TICKET TO PROTEST FOR 45 MINUTES AND THEN PACK UP YOUR STUFF AND LEAVE. THAT'S WHAT THE MAYOR WANTED. I THINK THAT THAT'S PART OF A GENERAL TENDENCY WITH, YOU KNOW, THE ASCENDANCY OF THESE BIG CORPORATIONS TO TRY TO DOWNPLAY DEMOCRACY AND CIVIC PARTICIPATION.

YOU'VE GOT CORPORATIONS THAT ARE PUTTING A MILLION DOLLARS INTO THIS CONVENTION. THEY INCLUDE AT&T, MOTOROLA, MICROSOFT, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FROM FRIENDS OF THE MAYOR. IT'S SUPPOSED TO SHOWCASE THEIR PRODUCTS, SHOWCASE THEIR GOOD WILL. FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK AT&T IS GOING TO GIVE AWAY 100 USED CELL PHONES TO KIDS IN THE GHETTO AND BARRIO. BUT THIS CHALLENGE OF THE PROTEST HAS THEM BAFFLED AND THEIR AUTHORITY IS THREATENED AND WHY I THINK THIS INTERMEDIATE GROUP, STARTING WITH THE JUDGE, MAYBE THE CLERGY, CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S A FORMULA IN WHICH EVERYBODY CAN HAVE THEIR INTERESTS MET.

WARREN>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR OWN BIOGRAPHY IN THIS REGARD. YOU FIRST CAME TO NATIONAL ATTENTION IN 1968. YOU WERE ONE OF THE LEADERS OF THE PROTEST DURING THE CONVENTION IN CHICAGO, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION IN CHICAGO. IS THERE A CERTAIN KIND OF SYMMETRY IN THIS SITUATION? HERE YOU ARE NOW ONE OF THE PLAINTIFFS TRYING TO OPEN UP THE SITUATION HERE IN LOS ANGELES.

TOM HAYDEN>> THE FIRST CONVENTION I WENT TO WAS IN LOS ANGELES IN 1960, ACTUALLY. I DON'T THINK THINGS EVER PLAY OUT THE SAME WAY. THERE'S ONE SIMILARITY HERE AND THAT IS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE HAS GIVEN THE ISSUE OF SECURITY TO THE MAYOR AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND I THINK THEY'VE GOT TO TAKE IT BACK. THESE ARE NOT ONLY SECURITY ISSUES. THERE ARE SECURITY ISSUES AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PLAN FOR DEALING WITH THE PEOPLE THAT MAY WANT TO DESTROY PROPERTY. BUT THESE ARE POLITICAL ISSUES. IT'S A POLITICAL CONVENTION. THE MAYOR ASKED FOR IT TO COME TO TOWN. THE PROTESTERS ARE POLITICAL. SO IT HAS TO BE SOME MEDIATION --

WARREN>> -- BUT HOW CAN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKE IT OVER? THERE'S NO FEDERAL POLICE FORCE. THE SECRET SERVICE DOESN'T DO THAT.

TOM HAYDEN>> YES, THERE IS A UNITED STATES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT COMMUNITY RELATIONS SERVICE WHICH IS HERE AND WHICH IS AT LEAST PERSONIFIED BY ONE INDIVIDUAL WHO'S HERE TRYING TO SORT THIS OUT.

WARREN>> SO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE TELLING CHIEF PARKS WHAT TO DO?

TOM HAYDEN>> THEY SHOULD BE REPRESENTING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE MEDIATION SERVICE. I THINK THERE'S ALSO ROOM FOR CLERGY. THERE'S GOT TO BE A BUFFER GROUP TO HELP CHIEF PARKS ADDRESS SOMETHING NOW THAT HIS PLAN HAS BEEN REJECTED BY THE COURTS. HE'S NOT GOING TO JUST COME BACK AND SAY I'LL DO WHATEVER THE WILD DEMONSTRATORS THINK. HE NEEDS TO BE IN A PROCESS, AND WHERE'S THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? WHAT IS -- I CAN'T -- THEY'RE SO BUSY GETTING HOTELS AND SETTING UP EVENTS THAT I CAN'T GET THEIR ATTENTION TO THIS. THIS SHOULD NOT BE JUST LEFT AS A SECURITY MATTER. IT'S A POLITICAL ISSUE.

WARREN>> GOOD QUESTION. WE DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER. WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR COMING IN AND THANKS FOR TALKING TO US.

TOM HAYDEN>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> AND WE'LL SEE YOU AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION.

TOM HAYDEN>> YOU WILL. I'LL BE AN ELECTED DELEGATE. I'LL BE LOOKING FOR --

WARREN>> -- YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE OUTSIDE ON THE STREET? ARE YOU GOING TO BE A PROTESTER?

TOM HAYDEN>> OUTSIDE, INSIDE, THIS IS A NEW MILLENNIUM.

WARREN>> YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN BOTH PLACES.

TOM HAYDEN>> THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> WE'LL FIND YOU.

SO DO YOU AGREE WITH SENATOR HAYDEN AND WITH THE JUDGE'S DECISION TO CANCEL THE SECURITY ZONE, OR DO YOU THINK PROTESTERS IN FACT ARE A SECURITY RISK AND SHOULD BE KEPT AWAY FROM THE STAPLES CENTER? WE'D LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS OR ANY OF THE REPORTS HERE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

WARREN>> TIME FOR TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON AND PATT OFFERS HER VIEW OF THE PLIGHT OF POLITICAL PROTEST.

PATT>> THAT EVER-SHIFTING PROTEST ZONE AT NEXT MONTH'S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION HAS SHIFTED ONCE AGAIN. A FEDERAL JUDGE HAS RULED THAT CONFINING DEMONSTRATORS TO A DESIGNATED PROTEST PIT AWAY FROM THE CONVENTION'S DELEGATES AND OFFICIALS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL IN ITS BROAD RESTRICTION. THE JUDGE CALLED THE PROTEST ZONE A STEPCHILD MADE PERIPHERAL TO THE EVENT ITSELF. IF ANY OCCASION DEMANDS THE RIGHT TO PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY, THE JUDGE SAID, IT'S A POLITICAL CONVENTION.

BUT BY THE JUDGE'S RULING, THERE IS ALSO A CHANCE THAT PERSHING SQUARE, WHICH IN ITS YEARS HAS SERVED AS LOS ANGELES'S VERSION OF HYDE PARK CORNER WELCOMING THE DISAFFECTED AND THE DISGUSTED TO STAND AND BE HEARD, MAY DO SO AGAIN. BUT THE JUDGE'S MOST THOUGHT-PROVOKING REMARK WAS THIS. HE SAID THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE AN ACCOMMODATION TO ALLOW THE PLAINTIFFS, MEANING THE DEMONSTRATORS, TO REACH THEIR INTENDED AUDIENCE, MEANING THE DELEGATES AND OFFICIALS ATTENDING THE CONVENTION.

THAT BEGS A VERY BIG QUESTION. WHO IS THE AUDIENCE? WHO IS IT THAT THESE DEMONSTRATORS, EVERYONE FROM ARDENT ENVIRONMENTALISTS TO ANTI-ABORTIONISTS, WANT TO REACH? IS IT THE FEW THOUSAND DELEGATES AND OFFICIALS WHO'LL BE PLAYING THE PARTS OF EXTRAS IN THIS CAREFULLY CHOREOGRAPHED EVENT THAT PERMITS NO SPONTANEOUS MOMENTS EXCEPT THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN INTO THE SCRIPT? OR IS IT THE MANY THOUSANDS MORE REPORTERS WITH PENS AND TAPE RECORDERS AND LIVE VIDEO FEEDS AND, BY EXTENSION, THE MILLIONS WHO WATCH AND WITNESS THAT WAY? IS THIS A REAL POLITICAL CONVENTION OR IS IT A VIRTUAL ONE? THANKS TO TECHNOLOGY, VICARIOUS REALITY IS A CONTRADICTION THAT'S GROWING LESS CONTRADICTORY EVERY DAY AS PEOPLE FIND THEY CAN EXPERIENCE ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT'LL REMOVE FROM SEX TO MOUNTAIN-CLIMBING. 

IN POLITICS NOW, THE PREDESTINED PROCESSES THAT MAKE FOR PREFAB CHOICES AND CONCLUSIONS MEAN THAT PROTESTERS WHO ARE A FEW HUNDRED YARDS FROM THE FLESH AND BLOOD POLITICIANS COULD WIELD MORE INFLUENCE OVER THEM BY APPEARING ON TV THAN BY STANDING IN FRONT OF THEM. IF ELECTORAL POLITICS BECOMES ANY MORE CUT AND DRIED, EVEN THE DELEGATES CAN STAY HOME. EVEN THE PROTESTERS CAN PICKET BY WEB SITE AND EVEN THE LAPD, WHICH UNLEASHED THE IMPS OF SELF-FULFILLING PROPHESY WHEN IT TOLD THE CITY COUNCIL TO EXPECT VIOLENCE AND MASS ARRESTS ON THE STREET NEXT MONTH, EVEN THE POLICE MAY BE ABLE TO PHONE IT IN.

WARREN>> THANKS, PATT.

WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE WHAT WE HAVE TO SHOW YOU. THE LA BREA TAR PITS ARE A LOS ANGELES INSTITUTION, BUT YOU MAY NOT REALIZE THAT IT'S ONE OF THE WORLD'S RICHEST FOSSIL DEPOSITS. EVERY DAY, PALEONTOLOGISTS STILL UNCOVER FOSSILS THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD.

VAL>> FROM NOW ON, FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS, THE PUBLIC IS INVITED TO WATCH SCIENTISTS AS THEY VENTURE INTO THE PIT AND SEARCH FOR FOSSILS. WE'LL FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE LA BREA TAR PITS AND SEE SOME OF ITS RICHES IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

THE OFFICIAL NAME OF THE TAR PITS IS RANCHO LA BREA. IT HAS PRODUCED MORE THAN ONE MILLION FOSSIL BONES SINCE 1908, MANY OF THEM DATING BACK 40,000 YEARS.

WARREN>> HERE WITH MORE IS CURT ABDOUCH, WHO IS ADMINISTRATOR OF THE PAGE MUSEUM AT THE LA BREA TAR PITS. THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

CURT ABDOUCH>> GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

WARREN>> PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY COME DOWN NOW WHILE -- YOU KNOW, IT HAPPENS EVERY YEAR, BUT IT STILL SEEMS AMAZING TO ME THAT PEOPLE CAN COME DOWN AND TAKE PART IN THIS EXTRAORDINARY SCIENTIFIC ENDEAVOR.

CURT ABDOUCH>> IT'S AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO SEE A SCIENTIFIC EXERCISE OF THIS DIMENSION AND NOW FOR ITS 31ST YEAR. IT'S THE LONGEST RUNNING CONTINUOUS EXCAVATION, URBAN PALEONTOLOGICAL EXCAVATION IN THE WORLD.

WARREN>> TELL US WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE AS WE LOOK AT IT. YOU CAN COME AND BE IN THIS THING, THIS VERY CHARMING LOOKING ENVIRONMENT HERE?

CURT ABDOUCH>> YOU CAN SEE THE PEOPLE HAVE A LITTLE DIFFERENT ATTITUDE TOWARD THE ENVIRONMENT DOWN HERE. THESE ARE VOLUNTEERS AND PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIFIC EXCAVATORS WHO LOOK FORWARD EVERY YEAR TO UNCOVERING SOME OF THE PROBABLY 1,000 SPECIMENS THAT WE WILL UNCOVER THIS SUMMER, AND IN THE TWO-MONTH PERIOD --

VAL>> -- JUST IN THE TWO MONTHS, 1,000? FASCINATING.

CURT ABDOUCH>> -- ABOUT 25 A DAY THAT ARE RECOGNIZABLE AND CAN BE CATALOGUED.

VAL>> AMAZING. NOW WE SHOULD ALSO WARN PEOPLE, THIS DOES SMELL.

CURT ABDOUCH>> IT DOES, RIGHT. WE'RE SMELLING NATURAL ASPHALT. THIS IS A PETROLEUM PRODUCT, A PETROLEUM DERIVATIVE. IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY CRUDE FORM OF CRUDE OIL AND IT'S NASTY SUBSTANCE. IT'S PRETTY FASCINATING.

WARREN>> BUT THIS IS A MINE AND I TAKE IT THAT PEOPLE MIGHT JUST COME ACROSS STUFF LIKE YOU'VE GOT HERE ON THE DESK WHEN THEY GO DOWN THERE?

CURT ABDOUCH>> WELL, THEY DO AND THEY HAVE. THAT'S THE EXCITEMENT BECAUSE, AS WE GO DOWN INCH BY INCH, YEAR BY YEAR, WE NEVER KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND. THERE COULD BE ANOTHER NEW SPECIES ADDED TO OUR ALREADY 635 OR SO.

VAL>> SHOW US WHAT YOU HAVE HERE.

CURT ABDOUCH>> WELL, WE HAVE PROBABLY THE ICON OF THE TAR PITS. THIS IS A SABER-TOOTH CAT. THE CAT IS --

VAL>> -- THAT'S A LOWER JAW OR UPPER JAW?

CURT ABDOUCH>> THIS IS THE UPPER AND I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO EXPOSE THESE NINE-INCH CANINES, OR SABERS. THEY WERE USED FOR KILLING PREY, OFTEN GROUND SLOTHS, HORSES AND OTHER LARGE HERBIVORES THAT WERE BASICALLY DEFENSELESS AGAINST THIS PREDATOR.

WARREN>> AND THAT'S THE STATE FOSSIL?

CURT ABDOUCH>> IT IS THE STATE FOSSIL. IT HAS BEEN SO DESIGNATED BY THE LEGISLATURE.

VAL>> NOW THIS IS A CAST AND WE SHOULD SAY IT'S NOT THE ACTUAL FOSSIL, WHICH WOULD BE WAY TOO DELICATE --

CURT ABDOUCH>> RIGHT, BUT IT IS A TRUE REPLICA. IT HAS BEEN CAST FROM A REAL FOSSIL.

WARREN>> SO THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND, IF YOU FIND IT LYING THERE IN THE TAR IF YOU HAPPEN TO GO DOWN THERE, THERE IT IS.

CURT ABDOUCH>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

WARREN>> OKAY, AND IT'S INTACT? IT'S IN THAT FORM?

CURT ABDOUCH>> OFTENTIMES THEY ARE, BUT SOMETIMES THEY'RE BROKEN APART, BUT WE'LL RECOVER EVERYTHING. EVEN IF WE FOUND A CHIP OF THIS, WE WOULD KEEP IT BECAUSE WE CAN GAIN SO MUCH FROM THE POPULATIONS OF ANIMALS. WHAT'S SO UNIQUE ABOUT THIS PLACE IS IT HAS POPULATIONS OF THINGS AND NOT JUST INDIVIDUALS.

WARREN>> WE'RE SHORT OF TIME. SHOW US SOME OF THESE OTHER GUYS THAT YOU BROUGHT IN WITH YOU.

CURT ABDOUCH>> OKAY. WELL, THE MOST COMMON PREDATOR OF THE DAY AND THE ONE THAT WE'VE RECOVERED THE MOST FROM IS THE DIRE WOLF. WE'VE RECOVERED ABOUT 3,000 SKULLS. NOW THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE ALL THE OTHER BONES, BUT ABOUT 3,000 SKULLS.

WARREN>> BIGGER THAN A DOG.

CURT ABDOUCH>> BIGGER THAN A DOG. PROBABLY A BIT MORE ROBUST THAN THE MODERN TIMBER WOLF, BUT THE TIMBER WOLF, AT THE SAME TIME, WAS PART OF THIS ICE AGE SCENE.

VAL>> NOW EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS SUCH A GOLD MINE? IT'S BECAUSE THE THEORY IS THEY GOT CAUGHT IN THIS KIND OF QUICKSAND?

CURT ABDOUCH>> YES, THEY DID. THEY GOT CAUGHT IN THE ASPHALT SEEPS. THESE WERE SHALLOW DEPOSITS OF ASPHALT THAT CAME UP, OOZED UP, FROM UNDERGROUND AND THEN SPREAD OUT. BUT WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT JUST THE GENERAL GEOLOGY OF THAT AREA WHICH, OF COURSE, IS NOW FULLY DEVELOPED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WHAT REMAINS IN RANCHO LA BREA AS HANCOCK PARK, WAS KIND OF A LOW SPOT, SO BONES WOULD WASH DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAINS AND WE WOULD HAVE THEM COLLECTED IN THIS VERY UNIQUE AREA.

WARREN>> YOU'VE GOT ONE MORE EXTRAORDINARILY LARGE SKULL HERE.

CURT ABDOUCH>> YOU CAN ONLY IMAGINE THE SIZE OF THIS ANIMAL WHEN ALIVE. THIS IS A SKULL OF AN AMERICAN LION AND, QUITE HONESTLY, IT WAS MUCH, MUCH BIGGER THAN THE AFRICAN LION. I DON'T THINK WE'D WANT TO MEET THAT IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

VAL>> THESE ARE NOT DINOSAURS, THOUGH, THESE ARE --

CURT ABDOUCH>> NO. ALL OF THESE ARE ICE AGE MAMMALS.

VAL>> ICE AGE MAMMALS.

WARREN>> AND WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN AGE BETWEEN THESE AND THE DINOSAURS?

CURT ABDOUCH>> WELL, DINOSAURS DIED OUT ABOUT 65 MILLION YEARS AGO AND THESE DIED OUT ABOUT 10,000 YEARS AGO, SO THERE'S A GREAT DIFFERENCE AND WE ARE LIKELY NEVER TO FIND DINOSAURS.

WARREN>> AND YOU'RE INVITING PEOPLE TO COME DOWN AND HELP YOU FIND THESE KINDS OF RELICS?

CURT ABDOUCH>> CERTAINLY PARTICIPATE IN THE EXCITEMENT OF THE EXCAVATION, SURE.

VAL>> FANTASTIC. JUST BRING NOSE PLUGS. YOU CAN CHECK THE NUMBER AND THE WEB SITE ON YOUR SCREEN FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS ANNUAL FOSSIL EXCAVATION OF PIT #91 AT THE LA BREA TAR PITS. IT'S A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY. PUBLIC OBSERVATION STATION IS OPEN THROUGH SEPTEMBER 10.

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WARREN>> THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, WHAT SHOULD THE FUTURE HOLD FOR A BIG FORMER INDUSTRIAL SITE NEAR LA'S CHINATOWN? SHOULD THE CORNFIELDS BE SCHOOLS AND PARKS AND HOUSING OR 32 ACRES OF WAREHOUSES? THAT'S TOMORROW.

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VAL>> FOR ALL OF US NOT YET EXTINCT MAMMALS HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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