7/24/00

LC000724

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> UTILITY DEREGULATION ISN'T EXACTLY ON TOP OF EVERYONE'S MIND, BUT IT'S TIME TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION AND HERE'S WHY.

GAY YEE>> SAN DIEGO GAS AND ELECTRIC AND ITS CUSTOMERS BECAME THE FIRST IN THE STATE TO PAY UNREGULATED MARKET PRICES ONLY TO FIND DEREGULATION AND THE RULES OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND DON'T ALWAYS RULE IN FAVOR OF THE CONSUMER.

MICAE MARTINET>> WE WERE TOLD THAT IT WAS GOING TO BRING DOWN OUR UTILITY RATES, IT WAS GOING TO CREATE MORE COMPETITION AND THAT THE RATES WOULD GO DOWN AND THEY HAVEN'T. IT'S COMPLETELY BACKFIRED.

VAL>> AND IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, WHEN THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION FELL $4 MILLION DOLLARS SHORT, HOLLYWOOD'S HEAVY HITTERS WERE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. WE'LL GET THE BACK STORY FROM AN INDUSTRY WATCHER.

WARREN>> ALSO TONIGHT, PATT MORRISON PAYS HOMAGE TO A MAN WHO CHANGED THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT CALIFORNIA.

PATT>> THE CHRONICLER OF THE WATER WARS LOSING HIS OWN WAR, ON TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> AND FROM "BEING JOHN MALKOVICH" TO THE PETSMART SOCK PUPPET, PUPPETRY IS BACK. AN EXHIBITION CELEBRATES THE HISTORY AND THE FUTURE OF PULLING STRINGS.

WARREN>> THOSE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR MONDAY, JULY 24, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, THE UNREGULATED ENERGY MARKET IS NOT DELIVERING LOWER PRICES. IN FACT, CONSUMERS IN SAN DIEGO ARE GETTING A JOLT WHEN THEY OPEN THEIR GAS AND ELECTRIC BILLS. COSTS HAVE DOUBLED AND THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE NEXT?

VAL>> IT ALL BEGAN FOUR YEARS AGO WHEN LAWMAKERS IN SACRAMENTO DECIDED TO DEREGULATE BIG UTILITIES. NOW IN THEORY, INTRODUCING MARKET COMPETITION WOULD MEAN LOWER UTILITY BILLS FOR CONSUMERS. NOT SO IN SAN DIEGO WHERE ONE WOMAN IS SO MAD SHE HAS UNPLUGGED HERSELF FROM THE ENERGY GRID. GAY YEE HAS HER STORY AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR US.

GAY>> LIFE IN MICAE MARTINET'S YELLOW HOUSE IN LA JOLLA THESE DAYS IS MORE LIKE A CAMP-OUT. 

MICAE MARTINET>> OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T HAVE LIGHTS ANY MORE, SO I USE CANDLES, AND I HAVE, YOU KNOW, BATTERY-POWERED LIGHTS. I HAVE AN ICE CHEST NOW AND I JUST GO GET ICE EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY I GO GET A BAG OF ICE AND I FILL IT UP AND YOU CAN SEE IT'S TIME FOR ME TO GO GET ICE. THE STOVE DOESN'T WORK. NOW I USE -- I HAVE A TWO-BURNER PROPANE STOVE THAT I BOUGHT....

GAY>> IT STARTED AFTER MARTINET GOT HER LAST BILL FROM SAN DIEGO GAS AND ELECTRIC COMPANY.

MICAE MARTINET>> YOU CAN SEE IT WENT FROM $27.00 TO ALMOST $50.00, WHICH IS --

GAY>> -- IN ONE MONTH'S TIME?

MICAE MARTINET>> IN ONE MONTH'S TIME, YEAH.

GAY>> SAN DIEGO IS THE FIRST REGION TO EXPERIENCE THE FULL IMPACT OF THE DEREGULATION PLAN PASSED BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE FOUR YEARS AGO. BY PAYING OFF ITS DEBTS AND DIVESTING ITSELF OF ITS GENERATING PLANT, SDG&E AND ITS CUSTOMERS BECAME THE FIRST IN THE STATE TO PAY UNREGULATED MARKET PRICES ONLY TO FIND DEREGULATION AND THE RULES OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND DON'T ALWAYS RULE IN FAVOR OF THE CONSUMER.

MICAE MARTINET>> THE WHOLE CONCEPT WAS OFFERED TO US AND WE WERE TOLD THAT IT WAS GOING TO BRING DOWN OUR UTILITY RATES, IT WAS GOING TO CREATE MORE COMPETITION AND THAT THE RATES WOULD GO DOWN AND THEY HAVEN'T. IT'S COMPLETELY BACKFIRED. I THINK THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF FLAWS IN THIS WHOLE CONCEPT BECAUSE OUR RATES HAVE DOUBLED AND, IN SOME CASES, TRIPLED.

GAY>> NOW MARTINET CAN AFFORD TO PAY HER BILL, BUT SHE PULLED THE PLUG ANYWAY BECAUSE THERE ARE PLENTY WHO CAN'T.

MICAE MARTINET>> I JUST DECIDED THAT I WASN'T GOING TO SUPPORT IT. I WASN'T GOING TO SUPPORT THIS INDUSTRY AND THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO GET ANY OF MY MONEY. SO I CALLED THEM UP AND I TOLD THEM I WANT YOU TO UNHOOK MY UTILITIES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

GAY>> SO UNTIL THE RATES DROP, SHE'S CAMPING OUT FOR THE DURATION. DINNER THESE DAYS IS SLOW-COOKED ON THE HIBACHI AND WHAT CAN'T GET BARBECUED GETS HEATED ON THE CAMP STOVE IN THE GLOW OF THE PROPANE LANTERN. EVEN THOUGH SHE'S ROUGHING IT, SHE STILL GETS HOT SHOWERS, THANKS TO A FIVE-GALLON SOLAR WATER BAG SHE WARMS ON THE BACKYARD PATIO.

MICAE MARTINET>> THE SAN DIEGO GAS AND ELECTRIC SAID THAT THEY WOULD LOWER THEIR RATES IN AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER, SO I'M PREPARED TO HOLD OUT UNTIL THEN.

GAY>> SEEM EXTREME? NOT TO MANY SDG&E RATE PAYERS. 

JOAN KUEBLER>> THIS IS THE BILL THAT WE GOT THE OTHER DAY.

GAY>> SO IT'S GONE FROM $631 --

JOAN KUEBLER>> -- THE MONTH BEFORE, TO $896.

GAY>> JOAN KUEBLER OWNS THE COOKIE LADY. UNTIL NOW, SHE THOUGHT COMPETITION FROM BIG SUPERMARKET CHAINS WERE THE BIGGEST THREAT TO HER BUSINESS.

JOAN KUEBLER>> WELL, THE HEAT WAVE IS BEGINNING AND IT'S TERRIFYING. IT REALLY IS. I MEAN, TO THINK THAT OUR ELECTRIC BILL NEXT MONTH COULD BE $1,200.

GAY>> SO WHAT COULD THE FALL-OUT BE FOR YOUR CUSTOMERS, FOR YOUR BUSINESS?

JOAN KUEBLER>> WELL, THE ONLY -- I CAN'T RAISE MY PRICES BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO LOSE CUSTOMERS, SO THE ONLY THING THAT I CAN DO IS CUT MY STAFF.

GAY>> THE SITUATION HAS GOTTEN UGLY. STATE SENATOR, STEVE PEACE, THE ARCHITECT OF THE 1996 DEREGULATION BILL, HAS EVEN SUGGESTED CUSTOMERS ENGAGE IN ECONOMIC DISOBEDIENCE, PAYING ONLY HALF THEIR JULY BILL. MEANWHILE, THE UTILITY CONSUMERS ACTION NETWORK, OR UCAN, IS CALLING FOR A MANDATORY CAP ON BILL PAYMENTS UNTIL THE SKYROCKETING PRICES CAN BE INVESTIGATED.

MICHAEL SHAMES>> SAN DIEGO IS NO LONGER SUBJECTED TO A RATE FREEZE, TO RATE PROTECTION, THAT EXISTS FOR THE REST OF THE STATE. WE'RE NOW IN A COMPETITIVE ENERGY MARKET. THE PROBLEM IS, THE MARKET ISN'T COMPETITIVE AND SO WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS, PRICES GO THROUGH THE ROOF AND CUSTOMERS HAVE NO OPTIONS OTHER THAN TO PAY VERY HIGH RATES.

GAY>> BILLS, FOR THE MOST PART, HAVE DOUBLED FROM WHAT THEY WERE A YEAR AGO. THE AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER IS PAYING ABOUT $100 COMPARED TO ABOUT $50 FOR THE SAME MONTH LAST YEAR. BUSINESS CUSTOMERS AVERAGE $334 FROM $166, WHILE BIG POWER USERS LIKE HOSPITALS ARE PAYING A WHOPPING $173,000 INSTEAD OF ABOUT $80,000. SDG&E SAYS THEY'RE NOT TO BLAME.

ED VAN HERICK>> WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE IS, THE MARKETPLACE HAS CHANGED. WHERE ONCE UTILITIES DID IT ALL, EVERYTHING FROM GENERATING ELECTRICITY TO DELIVERING IT ALL THE WAY TO YOUR HOME, THAT'S DIFFERENT NOW. UTILITIES, CERTAINLY SDG&E, IS PRIMARILY A DELIVERY COMPANY.

GAY>> VAN HERICK THINKS IT'S LIKE BLAMING THE MESSENGER. SDG&E SOLD OFF ALL OF ITS POWER PLANTS AND NO LONGER MAKES ELECTRICITY. THE COMPANY HAS TO BUY IT AT WHATEVER THE PRICE IS IN THE UNREGULATED MARKET.

ED VAN HERICK>> WE'RE BUYING SOMETHING FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND PASSING IT DIRECTLY THROUGH, AND IT'S A COST OVER WHICH WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL.

GAY>> SDG&E PROFITS BY CHARGING ONLY FOR THE DISTRIBUTION OF ELECTRICITY. IT DOESN'T MAKE MONEY PRODUCING POWER, BUT ITS PARENT COMPANY, SEMPRA ENERGY, DOES.

MICHAEL SHAMES>> SDG&E'S AFFILIATE COMPANY, A COMPANY CALLED SEMPRA ENERGY, IS PROFITING HANDSOMELY, BOTH BY THEIR TRADING OPERATIONS AND BY THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE POWER PLANTS THAT THEY SELL INTO THIS CALIFORNIA MARKET. SO SEMPRA ENERGY, THE PARENT COMPANY, IS DOING WONDERFULLY, REPORTING 40 PERCENT INCREASES IN ITS PROFITS.

GAY>> BUT BEFORE YOU WIPE YOUR BROW AND ISSUE THAT SIGH OF RELIEF: "WHEW, IT'S NOT ME", THINK AGAIN. SAN DIEGO IS ONLY THE FIRST TO FEEL THE PINCH OF DEREGULATION AND IT'S PREDICTED IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SAN FRANCISCO, SACRAMENTO AND LOS ANGELES WILL BE FEELING IT TOO.

MICHAEL SHAMES>> WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IN SAN DIEGO WILL LIKELY OCCUR TO THE REST OF THE STATE BECAUSE THE STATE IS IN A VERY BAD SITUATION. IT HAS INSUFFICIENT ENERGY FOR THE DEMAND THAT'S GOING ON AND IT'S RESTRUCTURED. IT'S DEVELOPED A MARKET THAT JUST ISN'T WORKING WELL. SO THE RESULTS ARE GOING TO BE ABERRATIONS IN PRICES, HIGH VOLATILITY AND CUSTOMERS LARGELY BEING BUFFETED BY THE VERY VOLATILE WINDS OF CHANGE IN THIS ENERGY INDUSTRY.

GAY>> BACK WHEN STATE LAWMAKERS VOTED IN DEREGULATION, THE WIDESPREAD VIEW WAS IT WAS BETTER TO SCRAP THE BIG UTILITY MONOPOLIES IN FAVOR OF MODERN MARKET FORCES, BUT THE PROMISED REDUCTION IN UTILITY RATES HASN'T MATERIALIZED IN SAN DIEGO YET. AND UNTIL THEY DO, MICAE MARTINET IS CHOOSING TO OPT OUT, BUYING ICE INSTEAD OF LIVING WITH A REFRIGERATOR.

MICAE MARTINET>> I THINK THAT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT START TO THINK THAT MAYBE IT'S NOT SUCH A CRAZY IDEA WHEN THEY GET THEIR NEXT BILL AND THEIR RATES HAVE GONE UP EVEN MORE.

WARREN>> WOW. ONLY A MATTER OF TIME, YOU SAY, UNTIL IT COMES UP HERE. HOW MUCH TIME?

GAY>> WELL, WE'RE TALKING, FOR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON, PROBABLY 2002. WE CALLED SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON AND SAID, "IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?" AND THEY SAID THEY'RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO POSTPONE THAT DATE EVEN FURTHER. AS FOR CITY USERS IN THE CITY OF LA, THAT'S DWP, AND THEY'RE NOT QUITE IN THE SAME POSITION AS SAN DIEGO.

WARREN>> THEY'RE SUBJECT TO DIFFERENT LAWS THAN THE PRIVATE UTILITIES?

GAY>> SUBJECT TO DIFFERENT LAWS. THEY CAN OPT OUT LATER OR NOT AT ALL. AND THE OTHER FACTOR IS THE FACT THAT LA HAS A LOT OF ITS OWN GENERATING PLANTS, SO IT'S MUCH MORE SELF-RELIANT THAN SAN DIEGO, WHICH HAS NO POWER PLANTS AND HAS TO BUY FROM THE OUTSIDE.

VAL>> BUT IF YOU'RE AN EDISON CUSTOMER, EDISON IS DIVESTING ITSELF OF ITS POWER PRODUCTION?

GAY>> IT'S DIVESTING ITSELF FOR ANY INVOLVEMENT, SAY, OF NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, THINGS THAT WERE NOT COST-EFFECTIVE. THEY WENT TO THE PUC AND THE STATE AND THEY SAID WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THESE DEBTS BEFORE WE CAN ACTUALLY COMPETE WITH EVERYONE ELSE.

VAL>> I SEE. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A POSSIBLE INCREASE, BUT NOT AS DRASTIC AS SAN DIEGO, DO YOU THINK?

GAY>> NOT AS OF YET, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, NOBODY ANTICIPATED THE GREAT DEMAND AND WE DON'T BUILD NEW POWER PLANTS.

WARREN>> GET USED TO THE BACKYARD BARBECUE.

VAL>> BASIC SUPPLY PROBLEM. THANK YOU SO MUCH, GAY.

OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW, THE BATTLE OVER A PRIME PIECE OF REAL ESTATE NEAR LA'S CHINATOWN. SHOULD IT BE AN INDUSTRIAL PARK OR AN URBAN PARK LAND?

>> I CAN'T THINK OF ANOTHER MAJOR CITY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WOULD TAKE AN EXTRAORDINARY OPPORTUNITY LIKE THIS AND TURN IT INTO INDUSTRIAL WAREHOUSES, BUT THAT'S THE MAYOR'S VISION. IN MY OPINION, IT'S A SECOND-CLASS VISION FOR LOS ANGELES. WE'RE A BETTER CITY THAN THAT AND WE DESERVE MORE.

VAL>> THAT'S TOMORROW AT 7:00 RIGHT HERE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

WARREN>> THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION IS A VERY EXPENSIVE PRODUCTION WITH A PRICE TAG OF $40 MILLION DOLLARS, SO IT MADE SENSE TO GET HOLLYWOOD'S MOVERS AND SHAKERS INVOLVED. AFTER ALL, THEY HAVE LOTS OF MONEY AND LOTS OF CONNECTIONS.

VAL>> BUT HOLLYWOOD LEADERS AND THEIR MONEY HAVE BEEN SCARCE. WE TALK WITH HOWARD FINE, WHO'S BEEN REPORTING ON THIS FOR THE LOS ANGELES BUSINESS JOURNAL, IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

WARREN>> HERE HE IS. HOWARD FINE, GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

HOWARD FINE>> NICE TO BE HERE.

WARREN>> YOU HAVE WRITTEN A LENGTHY PIECE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE HOLLYWOOD PEOPLE FIRST GOT INVOLVED, BUT THEN SORT OF BACKED AWAY, PARTICULARLY DAVID GEFFEN.

HOWARD FINE>> YES. WELL, WHEN LOS ANGELES WAS BIDDING FOR THE CONVENTION BACK IN 1998 AND INTO EARLY 1999, THEY DID BRING IN DAVID GEFFEN WHO WAS, OF COURSE, THE HEAD OF GEFFEN RECORDS AND PARTNER IN THE DREAMWORKS STUDIO --

WARREN>> -- WORTH ABOUT $2.8 --

HOWARD FINE>> -- ALMOST $3 BILLION DOLLARS.

VAL>> -- VERY POWERFUL MAN.

HOWARD FINE>> HE WAS ONE OF THREE BILLIONAIRES WHO GOT INVOLVED EARLY ON AND HE WAS GOING TO HELP BRING THE CONVENTION TO LOS ANGELES. THAT WAS WHAT HE STATED HE WAS GOING TO DO, SO HE GAVE $25,000 AT THE BEGINNING IN SEED MONEY AND THEN SENT TWO OF HIS TOP AIDES TO WASHINGTON TO HELP GET THE CONVENTION. THEN AFTER LA GOT THE CONVENTION IN MARCH OF 1999, HE JUST SORT OF FADED INTO THE BACKGROUND AND HASN'T GIVEN ANY MORE OF HIS FUNDS OR HELPED TO FUND-RAISE AMONG HIS HOLLYWOOD FRIENDS.

WARREN>> IN YOUR STORY, YOU DO QUOTE SOMEBODY SPEAKING ON HIS BEHALF AND SAYING THAT HE NEVER INTENDED TO COMMIT TO THE CONVENTION ITSELF. HE'LL GIVE HIS MONEY TO THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE, TO THE GORE CAMPAIGN AND ACTUALLY TRY TO GET PEOPLE ELECTED. SO WHY IS THERE SO MUCH FOCUS ON HIM IN CONNECTION WITH THE CONVENTION?

HOWARD FINE>> WELL, HE'S A CO-CHAIR OF THE HOST COMMITTEE THAT IS RAISING THE MONEY TO PUT ON THE CONVENTION. AS A CO-CHAIR, IT CARRIES WITH IT THE RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP RAISE THE MONEY. TWO OF THE OTHER BILLIONAIRE CO-CHAIRS, ELI BROAD AND RON [BIRKLE], HAVE EACH GIVEN $1 MILLION DOLLARS. A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE HOPING THAT, DESPITE WHAT HE WAS SAYING ALL ALONG, HE DEFINITELY MIGHT CHANGE HIS MIND AND GIVE -- IF HE DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE OF HIS OWN MONEY-- PUT ON A FUND-RAISER SO THAT THEY COULD RAISE FUNDS.

WARREN>> PARTICULARLY THE $4 MILLION DOLLARS THAT THE CITY COUNCIL NOW HAS FORKED UP.

HOWARD FINE>> RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT IT ALL COMES DOWN TO. IF HE HAD BEEN ABLE TO PUT ON A FUND-RAISER LIKE HE DID FOR THE DNC, THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE, WHERE HE RAISED $3 MILLION DOLLARS FOR THEM IN THE MONTH OF JUNE ALONE. HAD HE BEEN ABLE TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR FOR THE CONVENTION ITSELF AND THE HOST COMMITTEE, THE GAP WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT $1 MILLION.

VAL>> BUT WE DON'T WANT TO PUT ALL THE BLAME ON HIM. IN THE FIRST PLACE, HE'S AN INCREDIBLE PHILANTHROPIST, NUMBER ONE. SECONDLY, HE DID GET THE CONVENTION HERE TO LA --

HOWARD FINE>> -- YES, HE DID.

VAL>> -- SO THE BROADER QUESTION IS, SHOULD THE HOLLYWOOD COMMUNITY IN GENERAL, NOT JUST DAVID GEFFEN, CONTRIBUTE TO THIS CONVENTION? I MEAN, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY LEGAL OBLIGATION. SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT'S POLITICS.

HOWARD FINE>> NO, THEY DON'T HAVE A LEGAL OBLIGATION, BUT HOLLYWOOD HAS MADE A POINT -- AS YOU KNOW, HOLLYWOOD'S HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC. PUTTING ON A GOOD CONVENTION IS KEY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY COMING AT THE ELECTIONS BECAUSE THE CANDIDATE USUALLY GETS A BIG BOUNCE AND, IF IT'S A REALLY GOOD CONVENTION AND IF EVERYTHING GOES THEIR WAY, THEN IT CARRIES COATTAILS WHERE THE OTHER DEMOCRATS ALSO IMPROVE. I MUST SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS HAVE NOT BEEN TOTALLY ABSENT. THEY ARE PLANNING PARTIES FOR THE CONVENTION --

VAL>> EXACTLY. THE FAMOUS STREISAND PARTY --

HOWARD FINE>> -- THE STREISAND, AND THE PARAMOUNT BACK LOT IS GOING TO BE USED FOR THE GOVERNOR'S PARTY, SO THEY'RE FOCUSING MORE ON THAT END OF THE CONVENTION, BUT THE REAL NEED, AT LEAST OVER THE LAST MONTH OR TWO, WAS FOR SOMEONE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND HELP OUT FOR THE HOST COMMITTEE AND FOR THE CITY.

VAL>> I'LL PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, MY GOODNESS, $35 OR $40 MILLION DOLLARS ON A CONVENTION IS PLENTY AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHERE THE MONEY NEEDS TO GO.

HOWARD FINE>> WELL, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THEY CAME UP SHORT AND THAT ULTIMATELY NOW IT'S THE TAXPAYERS WHO ARE ON THE LINE FOR WHAT THEY COULDN'T RAISE FROM HOLLYWOOD. THAT'S THE KEY.

WARREN>> THE HOLLYWOOD PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DEMOCRATS FOR WHAT REASON? WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT APPEALS TO THEM AND CAUSES THEM TO CONTRIBUTE TO IT IN GENERAL?

HOWARD FINE>> WELL, HOLLYWOOD IS VERY WELL KNOWN FOR SUPPORTING LIBERAL CAUSES AND THIS HAS BEEN FOR AT LEAST THE LAST TWENTY OR THIRTY YEARS. THEY HAVE, IN GENERAL, TENDED TO SUPPORT MORE DEMOCRATS THAN REPUBLICANS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF THE STARS THEMSELVES WHO HAVE BEEN ACTIVE IN LIBERAL CAUSES AND THEY SEE THE DEMOCRATS AS HELPING THEM TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS.

WARREN>> VERY QUICKLY, IS IT TOO LATE? COULD THEY CHIP IN NOW AND ACTUALLY HELP, DO YOU THINK, OR HAS TIME PASSED?

HOWARD FINE>> IT'S NOT TOO LATE. THEY COULD CHIP IN. THERE MAY HAVE TO BE A FUND-RAISER AFTERWARDS, AFTER THE CONVENTION, IF THEY WANT TO CHIP IN.

VAL>> HOWARD FINE FROM THE LABJ, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

HOWARD FINE>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK? DO YOU THINK HOLLYWOOD HAS A RESPONSIBILITY OF CONTRIBUTING TO THE COST OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION? WE'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS OR ANY OF THE STORIES WE COVER HERE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT AND HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE & TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

WARREN>> WHAT CRIME WAS TO RAYMOND CHANDLER, WATER WAS TO MARC REISNER. PATT PAYS TRIBUTE TO THIS DISTINGUISHED AUTHOR AND HISTORIAN IN TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT>> CALIFORNIA LOST A GREAT WRITER THIS WEEK AND THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE AMERICAN WEST LOST A GREAT CHAMPION. IN 1987, MARC REISER WROTE THIS: "CADILLAC DESERT", A REVELATION OF A BOOK ABOUT MAN'S MANIPULATION OF WATER IN THE WEST, WHERE, AS THE SAYING GOES, WHISKEY'S FOR DRINKING AND WATER IS FOR FIGHTING OVER. IT WOULD BE ONLY A SLIGHT EXAGGERATION TO CALL REISNER THE RACHEL CARSON OF WATER. THE MODERN LIBRARY HAS RANKED HIS BOOK NUMBER 61 AMONG THE 100 MOST NOTABLE NONFICTION ENGLISH LANGUAGE WORKS OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

IT WAS REISNER'S BOOK THAT FIRST DEMONSTRATED THAT THE MASSIVE MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR WATER ENGINEERING PROJECTS OF THE AMERICAN WEST WERE A KIND OF WELL-INTENTIONED PONZI SCHEME FOUNDED ON CONCRETE AND SLIGHT OF HAND. THE PIONEERS COMING WEST COULDN'T FATHOM LIVING WITH THE DEMANDS THE NEW TERRAIN IMPOSED ON THEM AND SO THE GOVERNMENT PITCHED IN TO GIVE MANIFEST DESTINY A HAND. MANIPULATING WATER, MOVING IT, DAMMING IT AND SHUNTING IT AND CANALING IT AND CONTROLLING IT. IN SHORT, PLAYING GOD TO MAKE THE DESERT BLOOM AND, IN THE PROCESS, DANGEROUSLY RAVAGING THE DESERT ITSELF.

THE SOUTHWEST IS LARGELY A DESERT AND REISNER WARNED OF ITS AQUIFERS BEING SUCKED DRY AND ITS RUNOFF PROFLIGATELY WASTED, ALL TO CREATE AN AMERICAN PROTOTYPE, THE SWAGGERING SELF-STYLED RUGGED INDIVIDUALIST WHO IN FACT CAN EXIST ONLY BECAUSE OF CHEAP SUBSIDIZED WATER WELFARE.

REISNER RESERVES SOME WONDERFUL PHRASE-MAKING FOR A CENTURY OF RE-PLUMBING THE WEST AND WHAT IT CREATED, PHRASES LIKE "A WATER KLEPTOCRACY". MOST FAMOUSLY, HE OBSERVED THAT, "IN THE WEST, WATER RUNS UPHILL TOWARD MONEY". AND ALL FOR WHAT REISNER CALLED "A BEAUTIFUL FRAUD, PATCHWORKS OF AGRICULTURE, LAVISH AND FRIVOLOUS DISPLAYS OF GOLF COURSES AND GRASS YARDS AND FOUNTAINS, THE ILLUSION OF PLENTY, THE CADILLAC DESERT."

WHEN I INTERVIEWED MARC REISNER FOR THIS PROGRAM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, HE WAS HOPING TO SEE PEACE BETWEEN ELEMENTS HE HAD ONCE CONSIDERED IRRECONCILABLE: THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND THE IRRIGATORS. HE DIED THIS WEEKEND BEFORE THIS SECOND MIRACLE IN THE DESERT, BUT NOT BEFORE HE HAD LEFT A MARK ON HISTORY AND CONSCIENCE THAT NO AMOUNT OF WATER CAN WASH AWAY.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, PATT.

WELL, NO CHILDHOOD IS COMPLETE WITHOUT THEM. HOWDY DOODY, LAMB CHOP, KERMIT, THE FROG. PUPPETS ARE A PART OF GROWING UP.

WARREN>> AND NOW THERE'S AN EXHIBITION CELEBRATING THE ARTISTRY OF PUPPETRY AND THE LONG HISTORY THAT HAS LED TO THE INNOVATIONS OF TODAY. WE TAKE A LOOK AT "100 YEARS OF PUPPETRY" IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

IT TURNS OUT THAT PUPPETRY IS EXPERIENCING A RENAISSANCE. THE FILM "BEING JOHN MALKOVICH", AMONG OTHERS, SHOWCASE THE ART OF PUPPET-MAKING AND, EVEN IN THIS DAY OF DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY, PUPPETS STILL SHOW UP REGULARLY IN MOVIES AND TELEVISION SHOWS.

VAL>> AND HERE WITH MORE ON THIS AND THE EXHIBITION "100 YEARS OF PUPPETRY" IS PUPPETEER, GREG WILLIAMS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, IT'S NICE TO BE HERE. THANK YOU.

WARREN>> LET'S SEE A PUPPET.

GREG WILLIAMS>> WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE A PUPPET?

WARREN>> YEAH.

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, THE EXHIBIT WE'RE HAVING AT CAL STATE'S GALLERY IS FROM THE COLLECTION OF ALAN COOK, WHO LIVES IN LOS ANGELES. HE'S BEEN COLLECTING PUPPETS SINCE HE WAS A LITTLE BOY AND RECEIVED A PUPPET FOR A CHRISTMAS GIFT. IT'S "100 YEARS OF PUPPETRY" AND THIS ONE IS FROM THE LATE 20'S BY A MAN NAMED TONY [SARG], WHO ACTUALLY REVITALIZED THE INTEREST IN PUPPETRY IN THE UNITED STATES.

VAL>> THAT'S ABOUT 80 YEARS OLD?

GREG WILLIAMS>> YES, IT IS.

VAL>> IS THAT WHY THERE'S LITTLE TATTERS THERE?

GREG WILLIAMS>> YES, YES. MOST PUPPETEERS LIKE TO KEEP THE COLLECTIBLE PUPPETS IN THEIR ORIGINAL COSTUMES BECAUSE THEN YOU CAN SEE THE FABRICS AND SEE THE DETAIL. THE DETAIL IS QUITE NICE. THIS FIGURE --

WARREN>> -- IS THIS CLEOPATRA? ASP ON HER HEAD AND --

GREG WILLIAMS>> YES, WELL, TONY [SARG] LOVED TO DO CHILDREN'S STORIES BECAUSE IT WAS A GREAT FAMILY SHOW, AND SHE'S A DANCER FROM THE "7TH VOYAGE OF SINBAD" --

VAL>> OH, GOSH, SHE'S A DANCER.

GREG WILLIAMS>> YEAH, AND THERE WERE TWO OF THEM, AND ALAN JUST BROUGHT THIS ONE FOR US TO SEE HERE TODAY.

WARREN>> I KNOW YOU HAVE ANOTHER ONE HERE WITH YOU. LET'S SEE THAT ONE AS WELL.

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, THIS IS ANOTHER TOURING TROUPE OF AMERICAN PUPPETEERS FROM THE 30'S, THE TATTERMANS. THIS IS THE BUTTON MAKER FROM "PEER GYNT" AND THAT'S WHY HE HAS THIS LARGE SPOON BECAUSE THE BUTTON MAKER WOULD LADLE THE LEAD THAT WOULD GO INTO THE BUTTONS.

VAL>> OH, I SEE.

WARREN>> DO THAT AGAIN BECAUSE, YEAH, HE'S SO FLEXIBLE.

GREG WILLIAMS>> YEAH, THE JOINTS ON THESE ARE QUITE NICE. THEY'RE ALL WOOD AND METAL, SO THEY WILL PROBABLY OUTLAST US AND EVERYTHING IS HAND-CARVED ON THESE TOO.

VAL>> THAT IS FANTASTIC.

WARREN>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK -- WE'VE GOT SOME STILLS OF VARIOUS THINGS THAT CAN ILLUSTRATE THE HISTORY OF PUPPETEERING. WHO'S THIS?

GREG WILLIAMS>> THAT'S RENE, ONE OF OUR LOCAL STARS. HE GOT HIS REPUTATION FOR DOING CABARET PUPPETRY AND THIS PICTURE PROBABLY DATES FROM THE EARLY 40'S.

VAL>> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY, LATE 30'S OR --

GREG WILLIAMS>> AND HERE IS RENE IN HIS SHOP. MOST PUPPETEERS ARE NOT JUST PERFORMERS. THEY LIKE TO BUILD THEIR OWN PUPPETS. THESE ARE CRAFTSPEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT PERFORMANCE TALENT.

VAL>> THAT'S YOUR CASE. YOU BOTH BUILD AND MANIPULATE?

GREG WILLIAMS>> YES, I DO. I LOVE BOTH FORMS. I LOVE TO PERFORM AND I LOVE TO BUILD.

WARREN>> ELVIS LIVES.

GREG WILLIAMS>> YEAH, THIS IS FROM MY MENTOR, BOB BAKER, WHO HAS THE PUPPET THEATER IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES. THIS IS "GI BLUES" AND THOSE ARE BOB'S PUPPETS, NOW ON DISPLAY IN OUR EXHIBIT OF "100 YEARS OF PUPPETRY".

WARREN>> SO PUPPETS HAVE FOUND THEIR WAYS INTO A LOT OF MOVIES AND A LOT OF MOVIE CAREERS.

GREG WILLIAMS>> YES, BOB BAKER AGAIN. THIS IS "A STAR IS BORN" AND, AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE THESE IF YOU COME TO THE CAL STATE LUCKMAN FINE ARTS GALLERY.

WARREN>> CAROL BURNETT?

GREG WILLIAMS>> CAROL BURNETT, FROM ONE OF OUR PUPPETEERS APPEARING AT OUR PUPPET FESTIVAL THIS EXHIBIT WAS STARTED FROM --

VAL>> NOW IS THAT A PUPPET OF CAROL BURNETT?

GREG WILLIAMS>> CAROL BURNETT'S WASHER WOMAN THAT APPEARED ON THE SHOW AND THE PUPPET MAKER AND PERFORMER WAS GENII TOWNSEND. SHE NOW IS RETIRED AND LIVES IN PHOENIX, BUT SHE HAS A GREAT TALENT.

WARREN>> A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PUPPETEERING. IT REALLY GOES BACK, WAY, WAY, WAY BACK.

GREG WILLIAMS>> IT IS ANCIENT. YOU KNOW, I THINK THE EGYPTIANS HAD FORMS OF IT. THE ACTUAL WORD "PUPPETEER", THOUGH, WAS COINED UNTIL 1913 IN CHICAGO, SO "100 YEARS OF PUPPETRY" IS KIND OF APPROPRIATE IN THAT A PUPPETEER WASN'T EVEN CALLED THAT UNTIL THE LAST CENTURY.

WARREN>> ARE THERE SPECIAL AMERICAN CHARACTERISTICS? DO WE DO IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY DO ELSEWHERE?

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, IT IS VERY POPULAR IN EUROPE. I THINK WITH THE AMERICANS, IT'S SLOWLY COMING BACK. "BEING JOHN MALKOVICH" WAS A KEY. WE DO HAVE THOSE PUPPETS IN THE EXHIBIT ALSO. IT'S NOW BECOMING MORE AND MORE OF A POPULAR FORM. JIM HENSON CERTAINLY HELPED AND, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP GOING. WE LOVE TO DO IT.

WARREN>> AND YOU HAVE A FINAL EXHIBITION FOR US AND YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON NOW.

GREG WILLIAMS>> THIS IS DON OF "BEAKMAN'S WORLD" AND I BUILT HIM. HE'S GOING TO BE ON DISPLAY WITH HERB. "YEAH, I'M THERE WITH HERB. HI, VAL".

VAL>> YOU BUILT THIS ONE YOURSELF?

GREG WILLIAMS>> YES, I DID, WITH MY OWN TWO HANDS.

VAL>> DID YOU CREATE IT OR IS IT SOMEBODY ELSE'S --

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, THE PRODUCERS OF THE SHOW CREATED IT AND THEY CAME TO US AND SAID WE NEED SOME PUPPETS AND WE GOT TO BUILD THE PUPPETS AND PERFORM THEM ON THE SHOW, WHICH WAS A NICE TREAT. I LOVE IT.

VAL>> I HEARD, YOU KNOW, PUPPETRY IS MAKING THIS RENAISSANCE, IT'S GOING THROUGH THIS KIND OF RENAISSANCE. I ALSO HEARD THAT, IF YOU'RE A REALLY GOOD PUPPETEER, YOU ARE NEVER OUT OF WORK. IS THAT TRUE?

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, NOW, THAT SOUNDS GOOD. I'D LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT.

VAL>> WELL, I HEARD THAT THERE WAS KIND OF A SHORTAGE OF PUPPETEERS AND PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING COULD COUNT ON A PRETTY STEADY PAYCHECK.

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, I'LL LET YOU KNOW. I'VE BEEN WORKING STEADILY AND THAT'S GOOD, BUT IT DEPENDS. IT'S ALSO A DECEPTIVELY SIMPLY ART FORM BECAUSE A CHILD IN THE BEDROOM WITH A SOCK PUPPET CAN DO A REALLY WONDERFUL JOB, SO YOU JUST THINK IT'S EASY. BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF TRICKS AND A LOT OF SECRETS AND STUFF.

WARREN>> WHAT ABOUT THE CENTER? I KNOW THERE'S AN EFFORT TO GET A CENTER GOING.

GREG WILLIAMS>> THAT'S WHY WE ACTUALLY DID THIS EXHIBIT WITH ALAN'S COLLECTION BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME IMPORTANT COLLECTIONS AND WE WOULD LIKE TO START A PUPPETRY CENTER IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

VAL>> WHAT WOULD IT BE FOR? WHAT WOULD IT DO?

WARREN>> KEEP THOSE PAYCHECKS COMING?

GREG WILLIAMS>> WELL, THE FESTIVAL WE JUST FINISHED WAS REALLY A WONDERFUL EVENT. WE HAD FOUR NIGHTS OF SHOWS, AFTERNOONS OF SHOWS, AND WE REALLY HAD -- WE HAD THE WOMAN WHO CREATED HOWDY DOODY ON STAGE FRIDAY NIGHT, VELMA DAWSON. SHE JUST ROCKED. SHE BROUGHT HOWDY WITH HER AND REALLY WAS A SENSATIONAL PERFORMER. WE HOPE TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS SO PEOPLE CAN COME AND ENJOY SHOWS AND LEARN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS ART FORM.

VAL>> SO THE ART FORM WILL LIVE AND THRIVE AND --

GREG WILLIAMS>> -- AND WE CAN KEEP WORKING.

WARREN>> GREAT ON ALL COUNTS.

VAL>> BUT THEY CAN STILL THE PUPPETS. HOW MANY ARE ON DISPLAY?

GREG WILLIAMS>> THERE ARE PROBABLY CLOSE TO 250 OR 300 PUPPETS ON DISPLAY. YES, IT'S A GREAT EXHIBIT. IT'S REALLY A ONCE IN A LIFETIME UNLESS WE GET A PUPPET CENTER STARTED.

WARREN>> THANK YOU, GREG WILLIAMS.

GREG WILLIAMS>> THANK YOU, WARREN.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. YOU CAN CHECK THE NUMBER AND THE WEB SITE THAT'S ON YOUR SCREEN RIGHT NOW TO GET MORE INFORMATION ON "100 YEARS OF PUPPETRY". AS WE MENTIONED, IT'S ON DISPLAY AT CAL STATE LOS ANGELES THROUGH AUGUST 19.

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WARREN>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, IT MAY SOUND LIKE A FAMILIAR STORY WITH A LITTLE DIFFERENT TREATMENT. THE HEAT IS ON. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY AND THE SUPPLY? IS THERE ENOUGH POWER FOR DEREGULATION? THAT'S TOMORROW.

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VAL>> AND FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, SOMEBODY'S PULLING OUR STRINGS. GOTTA GO. HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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