7/25/00

LC000725

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WARREN>> THE FUTURE OF 47 ACRES OF REAL ESTATE KNOWN AS THE CORNFIELD HAS CREATED A FUROR AT LA CITY HALL.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> NOW THIS PLACE MAY APPEAR TO BE YOUR QUINTESSENTIAL URBAN WASTELAND, AN ABANDONED AND LONELY LOCATION LONG AGO FORGOTTEN BY THE CITY WHICH SURROUNDS IT, BUT THE SILENCE IS A BIT DECEIVING, FOR IN RECENT MONTHS THE CORNFIELD HAS BECOME A BATTLEFIELD.

JOEL REYNOLDS>> I CAN'T THINK OF ANOTHER MAJOR CITY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WOULD TAKE AN EXTRAORDINARY OPPORTUNITY LIKE THIS AND TURN IT INTO INDUSTRIAL WAREHOUSES, BUT THAT'S THE MAYOR'S VISION. IN MY OPINION, IT'S A SECOND-CLASS VISION FOR LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> AND ON TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, IF YOU'VE HAD IT WITH POLITICAL CONVENTIONS, YOU NOW HAVE A CHOICE. THEY'RE CALLED SHADOW CONVENTIONS AND THEY PROMISE TO TAKE ON THE ISSUES THE PARTIES WON'T TOUCH.

WARREN>> ALSO TONIGHT, THE WORLD WANTS TO KNOW WHO USED TO OWN THESE WORKS OF ART. WHERE DID THEY COME FROM? FAMOUS PAINTINGS ARE UNDER SCRUTINY AT EVERY MAJOR MUSEUM. WERE THEY STOLEN BY THE NAZIS? SHOULD THEY BE GIVEN BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL OWNERS?

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT FOR TUESDAY, JULY 25, 2000.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

AND THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

WARREN>> GOOD EVENING, I'M WARREN OLNEY.

VAL>> AND I'M VAL ZAVALA.

WARREN>> OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, WHAT SHOULD BE THE FUTURE OF THE LARGEST PIECE OF UNDEVELOPED LAND LEFT IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES? THAT'S THE QUESTION AT THE CENTER OF A CONTROVERSY PITTING A COALITION OF ENVIRONMENTALISTS AGAINST CITY HALL AND ONE OF LA'S MOST PROMINENT DEVELOPERS.

VAL>> THE PRIZE? A BLEAK AND INHOSPITABLE CHUNK OF LAND CALLED THE CORNFIELD. SHOULD THE PROPERTY BE DEVELOPED AS AN OFFICE COMPLEX FOR AN AREA IN NEED OF JOBS, OR PARKS FOR NEIGHBORHOODS IN NEED OF OPEN SPACE? SAUL GONZALEZ HAS THIS REPORT.

SAUL>> ON THE NORTHERN FRINGES OF DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES, THERE'S A PLACE YOU'LL NEVER SEE IN PICTURE POSTCARDS OF LA OR THE COVER OF GLOSSY TOURIST BROCHURES. WEDGED BETWEEN CHINATOWN AND THE LA RIVER, IT WAS ONCE A BUSTLING RAILROAD YARD THAT NOW SITS DERELICT. FORTY-SEVEN ACRES OF SCRUB BRUSH, TRASH AND ABANDONED INDUSTRIAL EQUIPMENT THEY CALL THE CORNFIELD.

NOW THIS PLACE MAY APPEAR TO BE YOUR QUINTESSENTIAL URBAN WASTELAND, AN ABANDONED AND LONELY LOCATION LONG AGO FORGOTTEN BY THE CITY WHICH SURROUNDS IT, BUT THE SILENCE IS A BIT DECEIVING, FOR IN RECENT MONTHS THE CORNFIELD HAS BECOME A BATTLEFIELD. WHAT'S AT STAKE IN THE STRUGGLE IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS PLACE SHOULD BECOME AN ENGINE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OR AN URBAN OASIS FOR THE COMMUNITIES WHICH SURROUND IT.

JOEL REYNOLDS>> THIS IS A ONCE-IN-A-CENTURY OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT IN LOS ANGELES PLANNING.

SAUL>> ATTORNEY JOEL REYNOLDS IS WITH THE NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL, ONE IN A COALITION OF ENVIRONMENTAL AND ACTIVIST GROUPS FIGHTING TO TRANSFORM THE CORNFIELD FROM AN URBAN EYESORE INTO A CIVIC JEWEL.

JOEL REYNOLDS>> WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE CORNFIELD SITE CONVERTED TO URBAN PARK LAND, PLAYGROUNDS, SCHOOLS AND A RANGE OF MIXED USES THAT THE COMMUNITIES THAT SURROUND IT DECIDE THEY WANT TO SEE HERE.

SAUL>> USING STATE BOND MONEY, ENVIRONMENTALISTS DREAM OF TURNING THESE BROWN FIELDS INTO WIDE LAWNS AND TREE-LINED WALKING PATHS WITH A LAKE AS THE CENTERPIECE. A MIDDLE SCHOOL, STORES AND RESTAURANTS WOULD ALSO SHARE THE LAND. SUPPORTERS OF THIS PLAN SAY THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WOULD BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THIS CINDERELLA-LIKE TRANSFORMATION OF THE CORNFIELD WOULD BE NEIGHBORING CHINATOWN.

CHI MUI>> CHINATOWN IS A REAL NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S A HOME TO 25,000 RESIDENTS. IT'S A HOME TO MOSTLY FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN.

SAUL>> ONE OF CHINATOWN'S MOST ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF A PARK PROPOSAL FOR THE CORNFIELD IS CHI MUI, A LONG-TIME COMMUNITY ACTIVIST AND A LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT FOR STATE SENATOR RICHARD POLANCO.

CHI MUI>> CHINATOWN DEFINITELY NEEDS A MIDDLE SCHOOL. IT NEEDS A PARK. IT NEEDS SOME MORE HOUSING FOR OUR SENIORS. IT NEEDS A PLACE WHERE OUR CHILDREN CAN GO AND PLAY WITH THEIR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS.

SAUL>> IT DOESN'T HAVE THESE THINGS THEN?

CHI MUI>> IT HAS A LITTLE PIECE OF GRASS AS BIG AS A POSTAGE STAMP.

SAUL>> THAT'S YOUR PARK?

CHI MUI>> THAT'S IT. THAT'S OUR PARK FOR 25,000 RESIDENTS.

SAUL>> AND THAT'S WHY THE CORNFIELD IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE HERE?

CHI MUI>> THE CORNFIELD IS CRITICAL TO OUR PEOPLE. IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE CHILDREN THAT ARE GROWING UP HERE. IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE GRANDPARENTS WHO ARE RAISING THEM. IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE PARENTS. THEY CAN TAKE THEM TO THE PARK TO PLAY ON SUNDAY.

SAUL>> IT'S NOT JUST A PIECE OF ABANDONED LAND THAT COULD BECOME ANYTHING?

CHI MUI>> OH, NO. THIS 47 ACRES REPRESENTS THE FUTURE OF ALL OF CHINATOWN.

SAUL>> YET OTHERS ENVISION A DIFFERENT FUTURE FOR THE CORNFIELD. PROMISING JOBS AND NEIGHBORHOOD INVESTMENT, CITY HALL SUPPORTS A PLAN TO TURN THE PROPERTY INTO A WAREHOUSE AND LIGHT INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. CALLED THE RIVER STATION PROJECT, IT WOULD BE BUILT BY SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA-BASED MAJESTIC REALTY CORPORATION, A MAJOR DEVELOPER OF OFFICE PARK PROJECTS IN THE UNITED STATES. 

MAJESTIC'S PRESIDENT IS ED ROSKI, A LONG-TIME CONFIDANTE OF LA MAYOR RICHARD RIORDAN, WHO'S BEST KNOWN FOR BEING A KEY PARTNER IN THE STAPLES CENTER ARENA PROJECT. MAJESTIC SAYS IT WILL CLEAN UP CONTAMINATION OF THE CORNFIELD SITE AND THEN BUILD A COMMERCIAL PROJECT THAT WILL CREATE HUNDREDS OF JOBS FOR THE LOCAL COMMUNITY. CRITICS ARGUE THAT THOSE JOBS WOULD BE LOW-SKILLED AND LOW-PAYING. OPPONENTS ALSO CONTEND THAT MAJESTIC'S PROPOSAL FOR THE CORNFIELD IS ILLEGAL, MOVING AHEAD FOR EXPECTED CITY APPROVAL WITHOUT REQUIRED ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES.

JOEL REYNOLDS>> THE APPROVAL BY THE CITY OF AN INDUSTRIAL PROJECT ON THIS SITE WITHOUT ANY REVIEW OF ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION OF OTHER ALTERNATIVES AND WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION OF POTENTIAL MITIGATION MEASURES, VIOLATES A LAW CALLED THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT.

SAUL>> YOU ARGUE THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN RAILROADED THROUGH, THE WAREHOUSE PROJECT?

JOEL REYNOLDS>> THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN RAILROADED THROUGH. THERE'S BEEN NO ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW, ESSENTIALLY NO PUBLIC PROCESS OF ANY KIND AND NO CONSIDERATION OF WHAT ALTERNATIVES MIGHT OTHERWISE BE PURSUED ON THIS SITE. THAT'S A VIOLATION OF CALIFORNIA LAW.

SAUL>> NOW LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WANTED TO GET A RESPONSE TO SUCH CRITICISMS AND HEAR ARGUMENTS FOR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE CORNFIELD, BUT THAT TURNED OUT TO BE MORE DIFFICULT THAN WE EXPECTED. MAJESTIC REALTY REFUSED REPEATED REQUESTS FOR A COMPANY REPRESENTATIVE TO DISCUSS THEIR SIDE OF THE CORNFIELD STORY. IN A SHORT PHONE CONVERSATION, HOWEVER, ONE SENIOR EXECUTIVE AT MAJESTIC ARGUED OPPONENTS OF HIS FIRM'S WAREHOUSE PROJECT WERE "ENVIRONMENTAL EXTREMISTS OUT TO TEAR DOWN LOS ANGELES".

CHI MUI>> I THINK THAT THEY THOUGHT THAT THIS WAREHOUSE PROJECT OF A MILLION SQUARE FOOT WOULD BE A SLAM-DUNK FOR THEM.

SAUL>> AND IT'S NOT TURNING OUT THAT WAY?

CHI MUI>> IT'S DEFINITELY NOT TURNING OUT THAT WAY.

SAUL>> RICHARD RIORDAN'S OFFICE ALSO DECLINED TO PROVIDE SOMEONE TO DISCUSS THE CORNFIELD DISPUTE. WE DID, HOWEVER, GET AT LEAST A STATEMENT FAXED TO US YESTERDAY FROM THE MAYOR'S PRESS OFFICE. IT READS: "WE BELIEVE THE RIVER STATION INDUSTRIAL PARK IS A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR COMMUNITY MEMBERS, ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND FUTURE GENERATIONS. THIS PROJECT WILL DELIVER AT LEAST 1,000 QUALITY HIGH-PAYING JOBS AND CLEAN UP THE TOXIC CONTAMINATION THAT HAS BEEN ON THE SITE FOR DECADES." FOR PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT TURNING THE CORNFIELD INTO PARK LAND, THOSE ARGUMENTS AREN'T CONVINCING ENOUGH.

JOEL REYNOLDS>> I CAN’T THINK OF ANOTHER MAJOR CITY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WOULD TAKE AN EXTRAORDINARY OPPORTUNITY LIKE THIS AND TURN IT INTO INDUSTRIAL WAREHOUSES, BUT THAT'S THE MAYOR'S VISION. IN MY OPINION, IT'S A SECOND-CLASS VISION FOR LOS ANGELES. WE'RE A BETTER CITY THAN THAT AND WE DESERVE MORE.

SAUL>> THE FATE OF THE CORNFIELD MAY STILL BE UNKNOWN, BUT ONE THING IS CERTAIN. AS THE BATTLE HEATS UP AROUND IT, THESE HARD SCRABBLED 47 ACRES ARE NO LONGER A QUIET AND FORGOTTEN CORNER OF LA.

WARREN>> OKAY. THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHICH HAS TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT THIS, IS MEETING AS WE SPEAK?

SAUL>> EVEN AS WE SPEAK, THEY'RE MEETING. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO VOTE ON IT THIS EVENING. IF THEY VOTE TO GO AHEAD WITH THE PROJECT, THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS SAY THEY'LL SUE.

VAL>> FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHATEVER WAY THEY DECIDE, IS THAT THE FINAL DECISION OR DOES IT GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL?

SAUL>> THERE'LL PROBABLY BE SOME SORT OF APPEAL PROCESS AND THIS WILL PROBABLY BE FOUGHT IN THE COURTS AS WELL. IF THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS HAVE THEIR WAY, IT CERTAINLY WILL BE.

WARREN>> IT'S REALLY WORTH POINTING OUT THAT NEITHER THE MAYOR'S OFFICE NOR MAJESTIC REALTY WOULD TALK TO YOU AND KCET ABOUT THIS. HERE WE HAVE THIS MAJOR DEVELOPMENT GOING ON RIGHT HERE IN TOWN. IT'S A BIG PUBLIC ISSUE. LAND USE. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THIS HUGE PIECE OF LAND AND THEY WON'T TALK ABOUT IT PUBLICLY. WHAT ARE SOME OF THEIR ARGUMENTS, THOUGH, AGAINST --

SAUL>> WELL, TO SPEAK FOR THEM IMPERFECTLY BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAD THIS PROBLEM TOO ON YOUR RADIO SHOW EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE MAJOR ARGUMENT IS LISTEN, THIS HAS NOT BEEN PRISTINE LAND FOR OVER A CENTURY. BEFORE IT WAS THIS, AN EMPTY FIELD, IT WAS A RAILROAD YARD. THEY SAY LOOK AT THE AREA, LOOK WHAT'S AROUND IT, WHICH IS A WAREHOUSE DISTRICT. WHAT BELONGS THERE? MORE WAREHOUSES, NOT SOME SORT OF, IN THEIR MIND, A FLAKY IDEA FOR A PARK.

NOW, OF COURSE, ENVIRONMENTALISTS WILL SAY, WELL, THAT'S THE PERFECT REASON TO HAVE IT THERE BECAUSE, LIKE SO MANY POOR, LOWER MIDDLE-CLASS AREAS ACROSS LOS ANGELES, THIS IS A PARK POOR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THIS IS WHAT THESE PEOPLE NEED. PARKS, RECREATIONAL FACILITIES, SCHOOLS, LET'S DO THAT WITH THE PROPERTY. LET'S DO SOMETHING FAR MORE INVENTIVE THAN AN INDUSTRIAL PARK.

WARREN>> FAIR TO SAY THAT, WHATEVER HAPPENS TONIGHT, WE WILL NOT HAVE HEARD THE LAST OF THE CORNFIELD.

SAUL>> NO, I THINK THERE ARE FURTHER CHAPTERS TO COME IN THIS SAGA.

VAL>> THANK YOU. I HAD NO IDEA ALL THAT LAND WAS VACANT DOWN THERE.

SAUL>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW NIGHT, IS LAGUNA BEACH ABOUT TO LOSE ITS WELL-KNOWN ARTS FESTIVAL TO SAN CLEMENTE?

>> NOTHING REMAINS THE SAME. YOU EITHER STAGNATE, WITHER AND DIE OR YOU ADAPT, GROW AND CHANGE.

>> MANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS DON’T LIVE HERE IN THE COMMUNITY OF LAGUNA BEACH AND I APPLAUD THEIR GRAND VISION FOR A LARGE ART VENUE SOMEWHERE, BUT WHAT THEY HAVE IN MIND DOESN’T FIT HERE.

VAL>> THAT’S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT AT 7:00 P.M.

WARREN>> WELL, IT IS PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATING CONVENTION SEASON AND A LOT OF PEOPLE COMPLAIN THEY’RE ALL SHOW AND NO SUBSTANCE. THEY’VE BEEN TURNED INTO SCRIPTED EVENTS THAT ARE TIGHTLY CONTROLLED WITH EVERY MINUTE PROGRAMMED TO PRESENT A PICTURE OF PARTY UNITY.

VAL>> BUT NOW A NEW CONVENTION FULL OF CONTENTION WILL TAKE PLACE. IT FEATURES MAVERICKS, COMEDIANS, MOVIE STARS AND JUST PLAIN PEOPLE. NOW ONE OF THE CO-FOUNDERS OF THE SO-CALLED “SHADOW CONVENTION” IS ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, WHO’S WITH US IN TONIGHT’S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

JOINING US NOW IS ONE OF THE KEY CONVENERS OF THE SHADOW CONVENTIONS, ARIANNA HUFFINGTON. ARIANNA, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN IT IN THIS WEEK’S TIME MAGAZINE, THEY HAD A FULL PAGE SPREAD ON YOU CALLED THE “ARIANNA SIDESHOW”. NOW IS SIDESHOW A TERM THAT YOU LIKE?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WELL, WE DON’T SEE IT AS A SIDESHOW. WE SEE IT AS AN INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT THREE CRITICAL ISSUES ON THE TABLE, THE CORRUPTING INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN POLITICS, THE PERSISTENCE OF POVERTY IN THE MIDDLE OF PROSPERITY, AND THE FAILED DRUG WAR THAT NEITHER PARTY IS WILLING TO ADDRESS. AND WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY. THE TWO PARTIES HAVE LEFT SUCH A HUGE VACUUM BY TURNING THEIR CONVENTIONS INTO FLOOR SHOWS, BUT THE MEDIA SEEMED READY TO RESPOND.

WARREN>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN, PUTTING THEM ON THE TABLE? WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY HOPE TO ACHIEVE? YOU’RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE PLATFORM OF EITHER THE REPUBLICAN OR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, ARE YOU?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> NO, NO, WE’LL NEVER DO THAT, BUT WE’RE HOPING TO BE PART OF THE MOVEMENT. YOU KNOW, BUILDING THIS MOVEMENT THAT WILL CHANGE THE WIND, WHICH IS A PHRASE OF JIM WALLACE, ONE OF OUR CONVENERS, USES, AND THEN POLITICIANS WILL PUT THEIR FINGERS UP IN THE AIR TO BE BLOWING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION AND THAT’S WHEN WE CHANGE THE PLATFORMS.

BUT BEFORE WE CHANGE THE PLATFORMS, WE NEED TO CHANGE THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION. NOBODY’S EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE DRUG WAR HAS FAILED. NOBODY’S TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE WAR ON DRUGS HAS BECOME A WAR ON BLACKS AND MINORITIES. SO THAT’S THE BEGINNING. I MEAN, WE DON’T SEE THIS AS A STRUGGLE THAT’S GOING TO END WITH THE SHADOW CONVENTIONS. WE HOPE THAT IT’S GOING TO INTENSIFY AND LEAD TO A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE OF THE DEBATE.

WARREN>> ISN’T THERE A GREAT CONCERN THAT THERE’S SO MUCH ATTENTION ON YOU PERSONALLY THAT, AFTER THE CONVENTIONS ARE OVER AND THE CAMPAIGN BEGINS, YOU’LL BE FORGOTTEN? EVERYBODY WILL FOCUS ON THAT.

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WELL, ALL THE CONVENERS HAVE ONGOING WORK TO DO. I MEAN, IT’S NOT AS IF WE’VE JUST GOTTEN TOGETHER AND THOUGHT THESE ISSUES UP. I MEAN, COMMON CAUSE, PUBLIC CAMPAIGNS, THE KEY PUBLIC INTEREST GROUPS WORKING ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. THERE ARE THREE POVERTY FIGHTING COALITIONS, INCLUDING CALL TO RENEWAL THAT JIM WALLACE IS HEADING. THE LINDESMITH CENTER, ONE OF THE KEY DRUG POLICY REFORM COALITIONS. SO THE WORK IS GOING TO GO ON AND I CERTAINLY WILL CONTINUE WRITING AND SPEAKING UP AND CRUSADING ON THESE ISSUES. WHAT WE ARE HOPING IS THAT THESE CONVENTIONS WILL BRING US CLOSER TO THE KIND OF CRITICAL MASS OF POPULAR OUTRAGE, WHICH IS THE ONLY WAY YOU’LL BRING ABOUT CHANGE.

WARREN>> BUT IN THE MEANTIME, YOU DIDN’T WANT TO USE THE TERM SIDESHOW, BUT YOU REALLY ARE PUTTING ON A SHOW. YOU’VE GOT COMEDIANS, YOU’VE GOT DRAMA, YOU’VE GOT WELL-KNOWN FIGURES COMING IN TO MAKE SPEECHES.

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> YES, WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN’T JUST GIVE PEOPLE DATA. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE THE DATA. YOU NEED TO CAPTURE THE PUBLIC IMAGINATION AND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT WITH EVERY MEANS AVAILABLE AT THEIR DISPOSAL.

VAL>> SO SOME MEANS THAT YOU HAVE ARE...?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> -- ARE SATIRISTS LIKE DEAN MAHR, AL FRANKEN, HARRY SHEARER, PAUL KRASSNER, ELECTED OFFICIALS --

WARREN>> SO YOU’RE GOING TO MAKE FUN OF THE CONVENTION?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WE’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE FUN. WE’RE GOING -- IN THE WORDS OF LEWIS LAPHAM, THE EDITOR OF HARPERS, WHO’S GOING TO GIVE A KEY SPEECH ON THE USE OF SATIRE AS A POLITICAL WEAPON, WE ARE GOING TO START SOME FIRES UNDERNEATH THE POMPOSITIES AND ORTHODOXES OF THE CURRENT DEBATE.

WARREN>> I HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR OWN HISTORY, THOUGH. HERE YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT WEALTH AND YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT CAMPAIGN FINANCING. YOU YOURSELF ARE A VERY WEALTHY PERSON. YOU WERE INVOLVED WHEN YOU WERE STILL MARRIED TO MR. HUFFINGTON IN ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE CAMPAIGNS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE. HE SPENT $30 MILLION DOLLARS OF HIS OWN MONEY.

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WELL, I CERTAINLY LEARNED A LOT FROM HIS CAMPAIGN. I MEAN, I WOULD NOT BE WHERE I AM IN TERMS OF MY THINKING IF I HAD NOT SEEN A BIG UNITED STATES SENATE CAMPAIGN FIRST-HAND. LET ME TELL YOU, MICHAEL’S CAMPAIGN WAS NO WORSE AND NO BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE BIG CAMPAIGN IN AMERICA. YOU KNOW, DOMINATED BY --

WARREN>> -- IT WAS BIGGER.

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WELL, NOT COMPARED TO -- HE’S BEEN OVERTAKEN. HE’S NO LONGER THE POSTER CHILD OF CONVENTION, WHICH EVERYBODY CALLED HUFFINGTON IS VERY HAPPY ABOUT. BUT THE POINT IS, I SAW HOW THEY WORK IT FIRST-HAND AND I SAW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO CHANGE THE DEBATE AND TO CHANGE THE ISSUES FROM WITHIN THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM BECAUSE OF THE WAY OUR CAMPAIGNS AND OUR FUND-RAISING ARE STRUCTURED.

VAL>> AND EVERYBODY’S VESTED IN THE STATUS QUO. SO YOU’RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE CALLING FOR? PUBLIC FUNDING OF CAMPAIGNS? WHAT’S YOUR SOLUTION?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WE DON’T HAVE AN ABSOLUTE AGREEMENT AMONG THE CONVENERS IN WHAT WE ARE CALLING FOR. PUBLIC CAMPAIGN WANTS PUBLIC FUNDING OF CAMPAIGNS. THE COMMITTEE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS ONE OF OUR CO-SPONSORS, IS A GROUP OF BUSINESS PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PUT AN END TO SOFT MONEY. THEY THEMSELVES HAVE GIVEN UP ON SOFT MONEY. SO WE DON’T BELIEVE THAT WE ARE GOING TO PRESENT THE NATION WITH AN ABSOLUTE FROM A TO Z, BUT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DEBATE. WE ARE STARTING FROM THE COMMON ASSUMPTION THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS BROKEN. I MEAN, WE DON’T HAVE ANYBODY COMING TO THE SHADOW CONVENTIONS WHO IS GOING TO DEFEND THE STATUS QUO. YOU KNOW, MITCH MCCONNELL HAS NOT BEEN INVITED.

WARREN>> AREN’T YOU GOING TO BE OVERSHADOWED YOURSELF BY DEMONSTRATIONS OUT ON THE STREETS, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE PREDILECTION OF THE MEDIA TO COVER THE ACTION?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WELL, THE CONTROVERSIAL MEDIA. THERE’S GOING TO BE A LOT OF ACTION. WE HOPE IT’S GOING TO BE NON-VIOLENT. WE SUPPORT THE PROTEST IMPULSE SINCE, AFTER ALL, WHAT PROMPTS IT IS THE SAME SITUATION.

WARREN>> THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE DOING. YOU’RE PROTESTERS OF THE --

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> -- YES, WE ARE PROTESTING, EXCEPT THAT WE ARE PROTESTING INDOORS AND WE ARE PROTESTING AROUND THREE SPECIFIC ISSUES RATHER THAN 2,000.

VAL>> SO THE MOVEMENT YOU HOPE TO SPARK, WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU WANT TO HAPPEN, SAY, FIVE YEARS FROM NOW AFTER ALL THE TALK IS OVER?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WELL, IN TERMS OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID, THE MOVEMENT IS ALREADY BUILDING. WE’RE NOT SPARKING IT. WE’RE PART OF IT. WE’RE THROWING SOME GASOLINE ON THE FIRE IN A POSITIVE WAY. IN SEATTLE, IT WAS PART OF THE MOVEMENT AND THE UNPRECEDENTED RESPONSE TO JOHN MCCAIN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

WARREN>> SO YOU DO IDENTIFY YOURSELF, THEN, WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE STREETS?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> WE DEFINITELY IDENTIFY WITH THE PROTEST IMPULSE, ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE --

WARREN>> -- AND THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION AND THE WORLD BANK AND THE --

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> -- NO, WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH ALL THE ISSUES, YOU KNOW, GLOBALIZATION, BUT WE DEFINITELY AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT MILLIONS OF AMERICANS HAVE NO VOICE IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM. SINCE THEY DON’T FEEL THEY’RE BEING REPRESENTED, THEY FEEL THAT THEY HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO PROTEST.

WARREN>> OKAY. WE ARE SIMPLY OUT OF TIME AND WE WILL HEAR FROM YOU, I’M SURE, DURING THE PHILADELPHIA CONVENTION AND HERE IN LOS ANGELES?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> MAY I JUST MENTION SHADOWCONVENTIONS.COM --

VAL>> OF COURSE.

WARREN>> NEVER MISS A TRICK.

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> -- FOR VOLUNTEERS AND REGISTRATION.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE’LL BE DOWN THERE OURSELVES. THANKS SO MUCH FOR STOPPING BY.

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK? DO YOU THINK THE SHADOW CONVENTIONS WILL SUCCEED IN SPARKING INTEREST AGAIN BY THE AVERAGE PERSON? WE’D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU ABOUT THIS OR ANY OF THE REPORTS HERE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

WARREN>> MAJOR ART MUSEUMS IN THIS COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD HAVE RECENTLY FOUND THEMSELVES IN A NEW LINE OF WORK. THE DETECTIVE BUSINESS. MUSEUMS ARE TRYING TO TRACK DOWN THE OWNERSHIP RECORDS OF ART WORKS IN THEIR OWN COLLECTIONS TO DETERMINE IF THEY WERE LOOTED BY NAZIS DURING WORLD WAR II.

VAL>> NOW TO DETERMINE IF A PIECE WAS STOLEN, A MUSEUM HAS TO FILL IN THE GAPS IN THE PICTURE’S HISTORY. WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO TRACK DOWN THE HISTORY OF A PAINTING? AND WHAT DOES AN INSTITUTION DO IF ITS ART WORK TURNS OUT TO BE STOLEN? WE FIND OUT IN TONIGHT’S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS.

SEVERAL METROPOLITAN MUSEUMS HAVE DISCOVERED POSSIBLE STOLEN PIECES IN THEIR COLLECTIONS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, INCLUDING THE SEATTLE MUSEUM OF ART AND THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART IN NEW YORK. NOW THIS HAS RAISED SEVERAL QUESTIONS FOR OUR INSTITUTIONS, BOTH ETHICAL AND LEGAL.

WARREN>> AND HERE WITH MORE IS SELMA HOLO, WHO’S PROFESSOR OF ART HISTORY AND DIRECTOR OF THE FISHER GALLERY AT USC. THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

SELMA HOLO>> HI, WARREN, IT’S GREAT TO BE HERE.

WARREN>> THE OPERATIVE WORD IS PROVENANCE AND WHAT IS IT?

SELMA HOLO>> WELL, PROVENANCE IS REALLY SOMETHING VERY SIMPLE. IT’S THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE A WORK OF ART CAME FROM AND ONE HOPES WHEN ONE OWNS A WORK OF ART THAT YOU CAN FIGURE WHERE. THE BEGINNING, FROM THE PAINTER, ALL THE WAY TO THE TIME THAT YOU HOLD THE WORK OF ART YOURSELF.

VAL>> AND ALL THE OWNERS ALONG THE WAY?

SELMA HOLO>> THAT’S A PERFECT PROVENANCE. THAT’S A CLEAN PROVENANCE.

WARREN>> HOW COMMON IS THAT?

SELMA HOLO>> WELL, SOMETIMES IT HAPPENS. I CAN THINK OF SOME WONDERFUL STORIES OF -- IN THE NORTON SIMON MUSEUM, THERE ARE SIX GORGEOUS PAINTINGS BY [ROMANELLI] WHICH, WHEN SIMON BOUGHT THEM FROM CHRISTY’S, HE FOUND OUT HAD BEEN IN THE SAME COUNTRY PALACE SINCE THE 17TH CENTURY. THAT HELPS THE VALUE OF THE WORKS. IT HELPS THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE WORKS. IT REALLY IS A WONDERFUL THING. IT DOESN’T HAPPEN OFTEN ENOUGH, BUT IT CAN HAPPEN.

WARREN>> MOST PICTURES HAVE BEEN FROM OWNER TO OWNER TO OWNER TO OWNER OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND MAYBE THEY’VE BEEN GIVEN AND THERE’S NO RECORD NECESSARILY OF THE SALE OR THE TRANSFER.

SELMA HOLO>> EXACTLY.

VAL>> OR WARS COME ALONG, WHICH IS WHAT’S CREATING A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

SELMA HOLO>> THERE YOU GO. AND THAT, YOU’RE RIGHT, IS WHAT’S CREATING A LOT OF THE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW. PROVENANCE USED TO BE SOMETHING IN A WAY THAT WAS THE KIND OF THE AREA THAT SCHOLARS WERE INTERESTED IN MORE THAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC. NOW EVERYBODY WANTS TO KNOW. WHAT’S THE STORY? WHAT’S THE HIDDEN SECRET ABOUT THAT WORK OF ART? BUT WE USED TO CARE ABOUT IT AS A MATTER OF COURSE. JUST FINDING OUT, WELL, YOU WANTED TO KNOW IF THE WORK WAS AUTHENTIC, YOU WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THE CONDITION WAS, YOU WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THE PROVENANCE WAS.

BUT SINCE THE ISSUES OF WORLD WAR II HAVE COME BACK INTO THE FORE, AND I SAY BACK BECAUSE THESE AREN’T THE ONLY ISSUES. WE HAVE ISSUES OF THE SWISS BANKS AND OF THE SLAVE WORKERS. IN A WAY, I THINK, WITH THE CLOSING, THE DESIRE TO KIND OF FINISH THAT HISTORY, NOT THAT ONE CAN EVER DO THAT, BUT IT BECOMES IMPORTANT AGAIN.

WARREN>> ONE THING THE MUSEUMS HAVE DONE IS TO ESTABLISH WEB SITES, SORT OF ADVERTISING WHAT THEY’VE GOT AND ASKING IF ANYBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT PAINTINGS. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. WE’LL SEE SOME PICTURES OF WEB SITES AS WE GO ALONG, BUT HOW ARE THEY USING THE INTERNET TO SEARCH FOR THE PROVENANCE?

SELMA HOLO>> WELL, I THINK ALL OF US ARE HOPING THAT, IF WE CAN GET THE INFORMATION OUT ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE, ABOUT THE WORKS OF ART THAT FALL INTO THAT MURKY PERIOD BETWEEN 1933 AND 1945, OBVIOUSLY NOT ALL OF OUR WORKS, BUT WORKS THAT WOULD FIT INTO THAT PERIOD, MAYBE SOMEBODY WILL KNOW THAT WE SHOULD CONTACT THIS PERSON OR THAT PERSON THAT THEY HEARD ON THE SHOW OR PROGRAM OR SOMETHING. BY PUTTING THEM UP ON WEB SITES, THE CHANCES THAT MAYBE SOMEBODY WILL BE ABLE TO RECLAIM SOMETHING THAT WAS UNJUSTLY TAKEN FROM THEM ARE ENHANCED.

WARREN>> WE SAW THE GETTY WEB SITE. HERE’S THE ONE FROM THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART IN NEW YORK. I TAKE IT, AGAIN, THAT THIS IS AN EFFORT PARTICULARLY TO DEAL WITH PAINTINGS IN THOSE GAP YEARS.

SELMA HOLO>> CERTAINLY, AND WITH THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART, THEY HAVE RECENTLY BEEN DEALING WITH AN ISSUE OF AN EGON SCHIELE PAINTING AND I THINK WE HAVE ONE OR TWO OF THEM HERE TONIGHT.

WARREN>> WE DO. FIRST, THOUGH, WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME PAINTINGS FROM SEATTLE WHERE I GATHER THERE’S -- AT LEAST ONE PAINTING FROM SEATTLE -- A MATISSE. TELL US ABOUT IT.

SELMA HOLO>> VERY DRAMATIC CASE, A MATISSE. AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS IS BEAUTIFUL. WHAT HAPPENED WITH THIS PICTURE IS THAT THE SEATTLE MUSEUM FOUND OUT THAT THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR THIS PAINTING BY THE PAUL ROSENBERG FAMILY. PAUL ROSENBERG WAS A GREAT FRENCH DEALER WHO HAD HIDDEN AWAY HIS GREAT PAINTINGS IN A BANK VAULT. THEY WERE STOLEN BY THE NAZIS, ALL OF THEM, AND ONLY RECENTLY WAS THERE A CLAIM THAT WAS REALLY PUT ON THE SEATTLE MUSEUM THAT THE PERSON WHO HAD GIVEN THE PAINTING TO THE MUSEUM HAD ACQUIRED THE PAINTING FROM THE [NURDLER] ART GALLERY IN NEW YORK, BUT THAT THE [NURDLER] ART GALLERY PERHAPS HAD PURCHASED THE PAINTING INAPPROPRIATELY FROM WHOEVER HAD STOLEN IT.

WARREN>> SO THE SEATTLE MUSEUM DIDN’T KNOW THIS AND THEY, THEREFORE, HAD TO RETURN THE PAINTING --

SELMA HOLO>> -- THE SEATTLE MUSEUM DIDN’T KNOW IT AND, AT THE END OF THE LAWSUIT, THEY NOT ONLY HAD, THEY WERE WILLING TO. THEY WANTED TO. THEY DID IT WITH GOOD GRACE.

VAL>> THAT GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF HOW COMPLICATED THIS CAN GET. BUT IF YOU HAVE IN YOUR HAND, WHETHER IT’S A GALLERY OR MUSEUM, A PIECE OF ART THAT TURNS OUT TO HAVE BEEN STOLEN, ARE YOU OBLIGATED TO GIVE IT BACK? IS IT JUST A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY? LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY? AND WHO’S AT FAULT? CAN YOU SUE THE PERSON YOU BOUGHT IT FROM OR...?

SELMA HOLO>> WELL, I THINK AT SOME POINT YOU CAN SUE, AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT SEATTLE IS DOING RIGHT NOW. THEY ARE SUING THE [NURDLER] GALLERIES, SAYING THAT THEY DIDN’T HAVE PROPER TITLE WHEN THEY SOLD IT TO MR. [BLODELL] WHO ULTIMATELY BECAME THE DONOR.

WARREN>> QUICKLY, THE SCHIELES. WE DON’T HAVE A LOT OF TIME, BUT WE WANT TO SHOW THIS AND TALK ABOUT THE --

SELMA HOLO>> -- THE SCHIELES ARE INTERESTING FOR A DIFFERENT REASON. THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART HAD BORROWED THE SCHIELES FOR A BIG SCHIELE EXHIBITION. WHILE THEY WERE IN NEW YORK, THE CITY ATTORNEY HELD THE PAINTINGS AND DIDN’T WANT TO RETURN THEM TO VIENNA, AUSTRIA WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

WARREN>> BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN A QUESTION OF PROVENANCE?

SELMA HOLO>> EXACTLY, EXACTLY. THIS CREATES A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MORAL AND AN ETHICAL QUESTION, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. MORALLY, OBVIOUSLY, YOU’D WANT TO KEEP THOSE THINGS AND GIVE THEM BACK TO THE PEOPLE WHO CLAIMED THEM THEIR OWN. BUT LEGALLY, IT’S TURNED OUT THAT THEY HAVE TO GO BACK TO AUSTRIA AND AUSTRIA HAS TO DEAL WITH IT. SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, THE LEOPOLD COLLECTION THERE MUST DEAL WITH IT.

WARREN>> AND THE FISHER GALLERY WHERE YOU COME FROM?

SELMA HOLO>> THE FISHER GALLERY WHERE I COME FROM. WE’RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A CASE RIGHT NOW. WE HAVE A PIECE, AGAIN, GIVEN TO US BY ARMAND HAMMER IN THE 60’S.

VAL>> WE’RE LOOKING AT IT NOW.

SELMA HOLO>> A BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL PAINTING BY, IT TURNS OUT, THE DAUGHTER OF [TIRBORCHE], ONE OF THE GREAT DUTCH PAINTERS. WE SPENT YEARS INVESTIGATING WHO DID THE PAINTING. WE NEVER THOUGHT TO WORRY ABOUT THE PROVENANCE. NOW, BECAUSE WE ARE ALL WORRIED ABOUT PROVENANCE, WE FOUND OUT THAT THERE IS THAT GAP, THAT NASTY GAP. WE KNOW THAT THE PAINTING, IN 1922, BELONGED TO THE [GOATSTICKER] FAMILY, A GREAT DEALER FAMILY. WE KNOW THAT, IN 1954, IT WAS PURCHASED BY A MR. [PRATT]. ARMAND HAMMER BOUGHT IT, IT WAS GIVEN TO US, BUT WE DON’T KNOW WHERE IT --

WARREN>> -- YOUR PROBLEM IS PROVENANCE, OURS IS TIME. WE ARE OUT OF IT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. WE WILL FOLLOW THIS STORY AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PAINTING.

SELMA HOLO>> I HOPE WE GET TO KEEP IT.

VAL>> FASCINATING. THANK YOU.

WARREN>> THAT’S IT FOR TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.

TOMORROW ON WHICH WAY LA, THE PEACE TALKS HAVE FAILED. WHAT’S IN STORE NOW FOR JEWS AND PALESTINIANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST? WE’LL TALK ABOUT THAT AND ABOUT THE WAY BOTH SIDES ARE PERCEIVED HERE IN THE U.S. THAT’S TOMORROW.

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VAL>> FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING. HAVE A GREAT EVENING. WE’LL SEE YOU TOMORROW.

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