3/19/01

LC010319

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> THINK SLAVERY IS A THING OF THE PAST? EVIDENCE THAT IT'S ALIVE AND WELL RIGHT HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> L.A., WITH ITS IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES AND COMMERCIAL LINKS TO ASIA AND LATIN AMERICA, IS CONSIDERED A CROSSROAD OF THE INTERNATIONAL SLAVE TRADE.

MICHAEL GENNACO>> WHAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING IN THIS COUNTRY IS A MODERN FORM OF SLAVERY. IN MANY WAYS, IT PARALLELS THE SAME EXPERIENCE THAT THE VICTIMS FELT IN THE ANTEBELLUM DAYS OF THE SOUTH.

VAL>> PARENTS, LISTEN UP. YOU CAN BE CHARGED WITH A FELONY FOR SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T DO. WE'LL EXPLAIN WITH THE HELP OF SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS, IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS.

JESS>> AND THE ENVELOPE, PLEASE. WHO'LL GO HOME WITH OSCAR THIS YEAR? WE GET AN INSIDER'S PERSPECTIVE ON THE STARS AND THE FILMS FROM SCREENWRITING LECTURER, ROBERT MCKEE.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW. OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, MODERN-DAY SLAVERY. WE TEACH SCHOOL CHILDREN THAT SLAVERY ENDED IN THE UNITED STATES AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, EVIDENCE IS GROWING OF A NEW SLAVE TRADE.

VAL>> ITS VICTIMS ARE POOR IMMIGRANTS ILLEGALLY SMUGGLED INTO THE U.S. THEY ARE OFTEN PHYSICALLY ABUSED AND FORCED TO WORK AGAINST THEIR WILL FOR LITTLE OR NO PAY. AS SAUL GONZALEZ REPORTS, LOS ANGELES IS CONSIDERED A GATEWAY TO THIS 21ST CENTURY SLAVE TRADE.

SAUL>> IN BERKELEY, CALIFORNIA, THE CITY'S WEALTHIEST LANDLORD ADMITS TO BUYING TWO TEENAGE GIRLS IN INDIA AND BRINGING THEM TO THE UNITED STATES FOR CHEAP LABOR AND SEX. IN ANCHORAGE, ALASKA, IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES INVESTIGATE CLAIMS BY RUSSIAN DANCERS THAT THEY WERE TRICKED INTO COMING TO THIS COUNTRY AND FORCED TO PERFORM IN A LOCAL STRIP CLUB. AND IN LAS VEGAS, NEVADA, POLICE ARREST THE ALLEGED LEADERS OF AN ASIAN ORGANIZED CRIME RING, CHARGING THEM WITH BRINGING CHINESE WOMEN TO AMERICA TO WORK IN BROTHELS FROM NEW YORK TO LOS ANGELES. TO FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS, THESE INCIDENTS ARE EVIDENCE THAT AN INSTITUTION THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN ABOLISHED IN THIS COUNTRY MORE THAN A CENTURY AGO IS ALIVE AND THRIVING IN CONTEMPORARY AMERICA. SLAVERY.

MICHAEL GENNACO>> WHAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING IN THIS COUNTRY IS A MODERN FORM OF SLAVERY. IN MANY WAYS, IT PARALLELS THE SAME EXPERIENCE THAT THE VICTIMS FELT IN THE ANTEBELLUM DAYS OF THE SOUTH.

SAUL>> AS MANY AS 50,000 PEOPLE ARE ILLICITLY TRAFFICKED INTO THE UNITED STATES ANNUALLY, ACCORDING TO A 1999 CIA STUDY. ONCE HERE, THEY'RE FORCED TO WORK AS PROSTITUTES, SWEATSHOP LABORERS, FARM HANDS, AND SERVANTS IN PRIVATE HOMES. THE UNITED NATIONS REPORTS THAT AS MANY AS TWO MILLION PEOPLE, MOSTLY WOMEN, ARE TRAPPED IN THE GLOBAL SLAVE TRADE. VICTIMS ARE OFTEN DESPERATE TO ESCAPE POVERTY AND ABUSE IN COUNTRIES RACKED BY ECONOMIC TURMOIL.

THAT WAS THE CASE WITH THIS WOMAN, THONGLIM KHAMPIRANON, A 43-YEAR-OLD MOTHER OF TWO FROM RURAL THAILAND NOW LIVING IN L.A. SEEKING TO PROVIDE A BETTER LIFE FOR HER FAMILY, IN 1991, KHAMPIRANON WAS ONE OF THREE THAI WOMEN TRAFFICKED TO LOS ANGELES TO WORK FOR THIS WOMAN, SUPAWAN VEERAPOL, A PILLAR OF THE LOCAL THAI COMMUNITY. KHAMPIRANON SAYS VEERAPOL PROMISED THE WOMEN DECENT TREATMENT AND $240 A MONTH WORKING IN HER SAN FERNANDO VALLEY HOME AND RESTAURANT LOCATED IN THE SHOPPING MALL. WHAT THE WOMEN RECEIVED, HOWEVER, WAS SIX YEARS OF EXPLOITATION AND ABUSE WORKING AS SLAVES. KHAMPIRANON OFTEN WORKED 18-HOUR DAYS, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK AND, IN THE SIX MONTHS PRIOR TO HER ESCAPE, RECEIVED NO PAY.

THONGLIM KHAMPIRANON (INTERPRETED)>> I WOULD WAKE UP ABOUT 6:00 OR 7:00 IN THE MORNING AND START CLEANING THE HOUSE. AROUND 10:00, SUPAWAN WOULD THEN TAKE ME TO THE RESTAURANT. I'D WORK THERE UNTIL ABOUT MIDNIGHT. WHEN I GOT BACK HOME, I COULD ONLY HAVE A FEW HOURS' SLEEP AND THEN I HAD TO WAKE UP AND START CLEANING THE HOUSE AGAIN THE NEXT MORNING.

SAUL>> KHAMPIRANON SAYS VEERAPOL CONTROLLED HER AND THE OTHER THAI WOMEN BY CONFISCATING THEIR PASSPORTS, CENSORING THEIR MAIL AND RESTRICTING CONTACT WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD.

THONGLIM KHAMPIRANON (INTERPRETED)>> SHE DIDN'T ALLOW ME TO SEE OTHER THAI PEOPLE. SHE TOLD ME THEY WERE BAD AND, BECAUSE I WAS HERE ILLEGALLY, I SHOULDN'T SEE OTHER PEOPLE.

SAUL>> FURTHER OBEDIENCE WAS MAINTAINED BY THREATS AGAINST FAMILY MEMBERS BACK IN THAILAND.

THONGLIM KHAMPIRANON (INTERPRETED)>> SUPAWAN TOLD ME THAT KILLING SOMEONE IN THAILAND WOULD ONLY COST ABOUT $120. SUPAWAN SAID SHE COULD HIRE A KILLER.

SAUL>> IN LATE 1999, VEERAPOL WAS CONVICTED OF FRAUD, HARBORING ILLEGAL ALIENS AND ONE OF THREE COUNTS OF INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE. NOW SERVING AN EIGHT-YEAR PRISON SENTENCE, VEERAPOL RESPONDED TO THIS STORY IN A LETTER: "IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN INTERVIEWING SOMEONE WHO KEPT PEOPLE AS SLAVES, THEN YOU ARE COVERING THE WRONG STORY. I TRAVELED ABROAD TWO TO THREE TIMES YEARLY AND THE LADIES HELD THE KEYS TO HOUSE, BUSINESS AND FAMILY MERCEDES."

JENNIFER STANGER>> WELL, I THINK THE VEERAPOL CASE IS REALLY A CLASSIC CASE OF TRAFFICKING.

SAUL>> JENNIFER STANGER IS CO-FOUNDER OF THE LOS ANGELES-BASED COALITION TO ABOLISH SLAVERY AND TRAFFICKING, AN ORGANIZATION WHICH AIDS VICTIMS OF THE MODERN-DAY SLAVE TRADE. SHE SAYS TRAFFICKERS PREY ON THEIR VICTIMS' VULNERABILITY.

JENNIFER STANGER>> THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH. THEY HAVE VERY LOW EDUCATIONAL LEVELS, LOW JOB SKILLS. THEY KNOW THAT THEY'RE ILLEGAL AND THEIR FEARS OF THE POLICE AND IMMIGRATION ARE VERY REAL. THEY'VE BEEN TOLD THAT, YOU KNOW, THE POLICE WILL, YOU KNOW, RAPE YOU OR, YOU KNOW, DO SOMETHING HORRIBLE TO YOU AND, IN THEIR HOME COUNTRIES, THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE.

MICHAEL GENNACO>> WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS A PRISON WITHOUT WALLS SITUATION.

SAUL>> ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, MICHAEL GENNACO, HEADS A FIRST OF ITS KIND WORKER EXPLOITATION TASK FORCE IN LOS ANGELES. HE SAYS CONTEMPORARY HUMAN BONDAGE RESEMBLES 19TH CENTURY AMERICAN SLAVERY.

MICHAEL GENNACO>> IN MANY WAYS, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BROUGHT HERE ARE ESSENTIALLY NOT BROUGHT IN CHAINS, BUT THEY'RE BROUGHT ACCOMPANIED BY TRAFFICKERS, THEY'RE MADE SURE THAT AS SOON AS THEY ARRIVE AT THE POINT OF DESTINATION THAT THEY'RE WHISKED AWAY TO AN UNFAMILIAR SITUATION IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE SLAVES IN THE SOUTH WERE WHISKED AWAY TO THE SLAVEMASTER OR THE SLAVE TRADER TO AN UNFAMILIAR LOCATION.

SAUL>> THE ODYSSEY OF KHAMPIRANON AND THE WOMEN WHO WORKED FOR VEERAPOL ENDED WHEN A VEERAPOL ACQUAINTANCE TIPPED OFF AUTHORITIES. IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, THE WOMEN'S EXPERIENCE IS NOT AN ISOLATED ONE. L.A., WITH ITS IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES AND COMMERCIAL LINKS TO ASIA AND LATIN AMERICA, IS CONSIDERED A CROSSROAD TO THE INTERNATIONAL SLAVE TRADE. IT'S ALSO THE PLACE WHERE SLAVERY LEAPT FROM THE HISTORY PAGE TO THE FRONT PAGE WHEN, IN 1995, SOME 70 THAI SWEATSHOP WORKERS WERE DISCOVERED TOILING IN PRISON-LIKE ACTIVITY IN THE SUBURB OF EL MONTE.

MICHAEL GENNACO>> THE GARMENT MANUFACTURERS AND THE DEFENDANTS IN THAT CASE WERE ABLE TO AMASS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PROFITS AS A RESULT OF KEEPING THAT FORCED LABOR IN THIS COUNTRY.

SAUL>> THE EL MONTE SWEATSHOP CASE HIGHLIGHTED THE CONNECTION BETWEEN HUMAN BONDAGE AND PROFITS, A CONNECTION MOST CLEARLY SEEN IN THE GLOBAL SEX INDUSTRY WHOSE HUMAN MERCHANDISE INCREASINGLY COMES FROM ASIA, RUSSIA AND EASTERN EUROPE. IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, TRAFFICKING OF WOMEN FOR SEX IS OFTEN CONTROLLED BY ASIAN ORGANIZED CRIME RINGS. THEY ADVERTISE, NOT SO SUBTLY IN LOCAL ETHNIC NEWSPAPERS, AND TURN SUBURBAN APARTMENTS INTO BROTHELS. AS IN THE CASE OF KEVIN DONG, ACCUSED OF OPERATING A PROSTITUTION RING WITH WOMEN BROUGHT FROM ASIA. IN JUST ONE SIX-MONTH PERIOD, DONG MADE OVER $460,000 OPERATING BROTHELS IN SUBURBAN HOMES AND APARTMENTS, ACCORDING TO FEDERAL AUTHORITIES.

[FILM CLIP]

SAUL>> TO EDUCATE WOMEN ABOUT TRAFFICKING, MANY COUNTRIES HAVE LAUNCHED PUBLIC AWARENESS CAMPAIGNS LIKE THIS SPOT BROADCAST ON CZECH TELEVISION. IT WARNS WOMEN ABOUT THE DANGERS OF SEXUAL ENSLAVEMENT ABROAD. IN THE UNITED STATES, LANDMARK LEGISLATION PASSED LAST YEAR WILL STIFFEN PENALTIES AGAINST TRAFFICKERS AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR VICTIMS TO STAY IN THIS COUNTRY AND RECEIVE HELP.

JENNIFER STANGER>> SHE'S BEEN IN SERVITUDE FOR FIVE YEARS, SEVEN YEARS. IT CAN TAKE MAYBE TEN YEARS TO REALLY GET YOUR LIFE BACK TOGETHER, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE LEGAL STATUS.

THONGLIM KHAMPIRANON>> MY BIRTHDAY TODAY.

SAUL>> IT'S A PROCESS THONGLIM KHAMPIRANON HAS STARTED. SHE NOW HAS A NEW JOB AND NEW FRIENDS IN L.A.'S THAI COMMUNITY.

THONGLIM KHAMPIRANON>> FOR EVERYWHERE I WANT TO GO, I GO. I WANT TO WORK, I WORK. I HAVE JOY NOW. SAME FREEDOM, RIGHT? (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> AND THOSE WHO'VE GAINED THEIR FREEDOM, DO THEY GET INFORMATION TO THE OTHERS THAT THEY TOO CAN FLEE?

SAUL>> THEY TRY, THEY TRY. BUT AGAIN, REMEMBER THIS IS A VERY HARD POPULATION TO FIND. THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO HIDE FROM THE REST OF US, SO IT'S VERY HARD TO MAKE THOSE CONTACTS AND HELP PEOPLE IN THIS SITUATION.

VAL>> YOU TRIED TO TALK WITH VEERAPOL, THE WOMAN WHO HELD THIS POOR WOMAN IN SLAVERY?

SAUL>> MISS KHAMPIRANON, YES.

VAL>> ANY LUCK GETTING IN TOUCH WITH HER? I MEAN, I SAW THE QUOTE, BUT --

SAUL>> -- SHE SENT US THE LETTER AND, ALONG WITH THAT LETTER, SHE REMAINS UNAPOLOGETIC FOR WHAT HAPPENED.

VAL>> SHE'S IN PRISON?

SAUL>> SHE'S IN PRISON, IN A FEDERAL FACILITY, AND SHE SAYS SHE WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE FROM HER COUNTRY. SHE DID NOTHING WRONG.

VAL>> WOW. ANY CHANCE THAT SHE WILL GET OUT EARLY OR WILL SHE SERVE HER FULL --

SAUL>> -- AS FAR AS I KNOW. I DON'T KNOW.

VAL>> - EIGHT YEARS?

SAUL>> UM-HUM, EIGHT YEARS.

VAL>> IN TEXAS. UNBELIEVABLE.

JESS>> BUT, AGAIN, THESE ARE PRISONS WITHOUT WALLS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE WOMEN WHO ARE HELD AS SLAVES.

SAUL>> RIGHT, AND I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE HERE IS THAT YOU CAN BE A SLAVE WITHOUT BEING SHACKLED TO A WALL. YOU CAN BE A SLAVE WITHOUT BEING HIT WITH A WHIP EVERY DAY. THERE ARE WAYS TO TAKE CONTROL OF OTHER HUMAN BEINGS WITHOUT BEING MANACLED.

JESS>> WE NEED AN UNDERGROUND RAILWAY.

SAUL>> YES, WELL, IT STARTED HERE IN LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> THAT'S TRUE.

VAL>> SAUL, THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT'S AN AMAZING REPORT.

OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW NIGHT, CHANGE IS COMING TO HOLLYWOOD. WE'LL SEE HOW MOVIES WILL NO LONGER BE SHOT ON FILM AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW YOUR FILM-GOING EXPERIENCE WILL CHANGE. HOLLYWOOD AND THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION. THAT'S TUESDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT AT 7:00 P.M.

JESS>> IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, BEING A PARENT IS A CHALLENGING EXPERIENCE. NO ONE WOULD ARGUE WITH THAT. WE TRY TO INSTILL IN OUR YOUNGSTERS A SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG AND TEACH THEM TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

VAL>> BUT IF THE LESSON DOESN'T TAKE, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE PARENTS ARE HELD LIABLE FOR CRIMINAL ACTIONS OF THEIR KIDS. WHAT SHOULD A PARENT BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR? JOINING US NOW IS SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS. WELCOME BACK, AS ALWAYS. NICE TO SEE YOU HERE ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

JESS>> KEVIN, THERE ARE SOME LOCAL EXAMPLES IN RECENT DAYS OF A CHILD WHO GOES IN AND SHOOTS UP A CLASSROOM.

KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT.

JESS>> ARE THE PARENTS RESPONSIBLE? CAN THEY BE HELD RESPONSIBLE?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, WHEN YOU HAVE SITUATIONS WHERE A PARENT HAS ANY TYPE OF CHILD IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO WEAPONS OR THEY'RE INVOLVED IN SOMETHING -- IN FLORIDA, WE HAD THE SITUATION WITH THE LITTLE BOY WHO WAS CONVICTED OF --

JESS>> -- 14-YEAR-OLD, YEAH.

KEVIN ROSS>> HE WAS 12 WHEN HE COMMITTED THE OFFENSE OF KILLING THE SIX-YEAR-OLD GIRL. THERE WAS NO WEAPON INVOLVED, BUT THE RESULT WAS STILL THE SAME IN THAT SOMEONE DIED. THERE ARE ISSUES OF LIABILITY AND SOME OF THOSE ISSUES DEAL MORE FROM A CIVIL STANDPOINT IN TERMS OF THE PARENTS BEING SUED FOR MONEY DAMAGES. BUT THEN WE ALSO HAVE THIS ISSUE OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN CRIMINAL CHARGES COULD BE FILED WITH THE PARENTS WHEN THE CHILD COMMITS THESE TYPES OF OFFENSES.

JESS>> THE FLORIDA YOUNGSTER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT GOT LIFE IN PRISON AS A SENTENCE?

KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, IN CALIFORNIA, WE WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN CONSIDERED JUST FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE LAWS THAT WE HAVE IN TERMS OF HOW WE HANDLE CHILDREN. YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE ON THE SHOW.

JESS>> BUT PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY -- THAT CHILD'S MOTHER TURNED DOWN A PLEA AGREEMENT THAT WOULD HAVE SENT HIM STRICTLY TO, WHAT, A JUVENILE FACILITY?

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY.

JESS>> SO THAT PARENT, IT WOULD SEEM, IS RESPONSIBLE.

KEVIN ROSS>> THAT PARENT WOULD SEEMINGLY BE IRRESPONSIBLE, BUT NOT FROM A CRIMINAL STANDPOINT. NOW WHERE THE LIABILITY MAY COME INTO PLAY IS, THE SIX-YEAR-OLD'S FAMILY MAY THINK "I HAVE A CAUSE OF ACTION AGAINST THAT MOTHER" BECAUSE SHE WAS IN THE HOME ALLEGEDLY ASLEEP WHEN THE INCIDENT OCCURRED. BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WITH PARENTS, LET'S JUST SAY IF YOUR CHILD DRIVES A CAR AND HITS SOMEONE. ULTIMATELY, YOU AS THE PARENT WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR ANY DAMAGES OR -- THERE WAS EVEN A CASE BACK IN 1968 WHERE IT WAS ESTABLISHED THAT PARENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CHILDREN'S BEHAVIOR. A SEVEN-YEAR-OLD TOOK A BOW AND ARROW AND INJURED A FIVE-YEAR-OLD. THAT'S REALLY WHAT KIND OF SET THE TONE IN CALIFORNIA FOR PARENTAL LIABILITY.

VAL>> OKAY, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE CASE AT THE HIGH SCHOOL DOWN IN SANTEE. YOUNG MAN, ANDY WILLIAMS, GOES IN, SHOOTS UP THE HIGH SCHOOL, TWO PEOPLE KILLED, SEVERAL OTHERS -- HE GOT THAT GUN FROM HIS FATHER'S GUN SHELF. TELL US HOW THAT FATHER MIGHT BE RESPONSIBLE.

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, RIGHT NOW AT THIS POINT, WE HAVE TO PRESUME HIM INNOCENT. WE CAN'T JUST AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME THAT HE --

VAL>> -- THE SON OR THE FATHER?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, BOTH, FOR THE MOST PART, BECAUSE AT THIS POINT THEY ARE ALLEGATIONS THAT HE HAD THIS OFFENSE. IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHETHER OR NOT IT CAN BE PROVEN THAT THIS 15-YEAR-OLD DID, IN FACT, COMMIT THIS OFFENSE. BUT IN A SCENARIO WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE SOMEONE ACCUSED OF HAVING A FIREARM AND GETTING THAT FIREARM FROM A PARENT, HERE IN CALIFORNIA, THE PENAL CODE SECTION IS VERY CLEAR. A PARENT COULD BE CHARGED.

VAL>> WITH WHAT? WITH CRIMINAL --

KEVIN ROSS>> -- IT'S CALLED -- IT'S UNDER THE CRIME PREVENTION ACT OF THE PENAL CODE AND IT TALKS ABOUT STORAGE OF A FIREARM.

JESS>> SAFE STORAGE.

KEVIN ROSS>> SAFE STORAGE OF A FIREARM. YOU CAN OBJECTIVELY LOOK AT THE SITUATION AND SAY THIS PARENT WAS IRRESPONSIBLE IN TERMS OF -- OFTENTIMES, PEOPLE WILL LEAVE A LOADED FIREARM UNDER THEIR BED OR THEY'LL LEAVE A FIREARM AT SOME PLACE WHERE IT'S CONCEIVABLE THAT A CHILD COULD GET TO IT. AND WHEN I SAY CHILD, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AGE 16 AND UNDER. NOW IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE OVER THE AGE OF 16, THEN THE PARENT WOULD NOT HAVE THAT CRIMINAL LIABILITY.

JESS>> NOW IN YOUR COURTROOM EVERY DAY, YOU SEE JUVENILES WHO ARE CHARGED WITH CRIMES. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THOSE DO YOU THINK ARE PARTLY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENTS?

KEVIN ROSS>> I THINK A LOT OF THE BEHAVIOR THAT WE'RE SEEING WITH YOUNG PEOPLE YOU CAN ATTRIBUTE TO SOME POINT TO THE PARENTS. ULTIMATELY, WE ALL HAVE TO SHARE OUR OWN SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE CHARGE PARENTS FOR FAILING TO ENSURE THAT THEIR KIDS GO TO SCHOOL. UNDER THE PENAL CODE 272, IT'S CALLED CONTRIBUTING TO THE DELINQUENCY OF A MINOR, BECAUSE CALIFORNIA STATE LAW SAYS THAT A CHILD UNTIL THE AGE OF 18 MUST GO TO SCHOOL. SO IF A PARENT IS DERELICT IN NOT ENSURING THAT THAT KID GOES TO SCHOOL, THAT PARENT COULD BE LOOKING AT A YEAR IN COUNTY JAIL, FIVE YEARS' PROBATION AND A $2,500 FINE.

VAL>> NOW I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE FATHER AND THE SANTEE CASE, OR ANYONE, YOU KNOW. I UNDERSTAND, TECHNICALLY, NOT GUILTY --

KEVIN ROSS>> -- RIGHT, RIGHT.

VAL>> LET'S SAY I'M A PARENT. I HAVE A GUN IN THE HOME. WHAT SHOULD I DO TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M NOT VULNERABLE TO THAT KIND OF PARENTAL LIABILITY?

KEVIN ROSS>> I'M SURE EVEN AS WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, SOMEONE WHO IS WATCHING HAS A GUN IN THEIR HOME AND THEY HAVE CHILDREN. THE THINGS THAT THEY SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT, DOES THE GUN HAVE A TRIGGER LOCK? IS IT A SITUATION WHERE YOU'VE GONE AND TAKEN SOME SORT OF CLASSES ON SAFETY AND GUNS? IS THE GUN IN A LOCKED FACILITY? HAS THERE BEEN ANY HISTORY OF THIS CHILD ROAMING THROUGH YOUR THINGS OR EXHIBITING ANY TYPE OF UNUSUAL BEHAVIOR OR BEING VERY ADVENTUROUS? BECAUSE THOSE WOULD BE FACTORS THAT A PROSECUTOR WOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT. HOW EGREGIOUS WAS IT ON YOUR PART THAT YOU DIDN'T DO EVERYTHING YOU COULD?

YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN IN THEIR HOME. BUT WHEN YOU MAKE THE DECISION TO HAVE CHILDREN AND THEN THOSE CHILDREN COMMIT ACTIONS THAT RESULT POSSIBLY IN SOMEONE'S LIFE BEING TAKEN AWAY, THERE IS THAT ACCOUNTABILITY THAT THE PARENTS WILL HAVE.

JESS>> YOU'VE HEARD THE PHILOSOPHY THAT THERE ARE NO BAD CHILDREN, ONLY BAD PARENTS. IS THAT TRUE?

KEVIN ROSS>> I THINK, TO SOME EXTENT, AS WE SEE MORE AND MORE WITH A LOT OF CHILDREN IN THE JUVENILE SYSTEM, SOME OF THEIR ACTIONS CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO THE LACK OF PARENTAL COUNSELING AND PARENTAL SKILLS THAT WE AS THE GROWN-UPS HAVE. WE ARE THE ADULTS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

VAL>> JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU ON. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

KEVIN ROSS>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> SO WHAT DO YOU THINK? DO YOU THINK PERHAPS WE SHOULD HOLD PARENTS MORE ACCOUNTABLE THAN WE DO, OR IS THE LAW ADEQUATE? WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU. HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

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VAL>> IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS, IT'S MARCH AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. TIME TO PUT ON THAT SEQUIN DRESS OR TUXEDO. WHAT? YOU WEREN'T INVITED TO AN OSCAR PARTY? WELL, TAKE HEART. NEITHER WERE WE.

JESS>> BUT WE HAVE SEEN SOME OF THIS YEAR'S BIG PICKS FOR THE ACADEMY AWARDS. AS USUAL, THE BEST MOVIES ARE FULL OF ACTION, LOVE AND SPECIAL EFFECTS. SOME ARE PURE FANTASY, SOME ARE BASED ON TRUTH AND SOME A BIT OF BOTH. WE'VE ASKED ONE OF HOLLYWOOD'S MOST RESPECTED SCREENWRITING TEACHERS AND LECTURERS TO EXPLAIN HIS CHOICES FOR THIS YEAR'S OSCARS. BUT FIRST, THIS IS HOLLYWOOD SHOWING ITS VERY BEST. WE'VE SEEN WHO THE NOMINEES ARE, WHAT THE NOMINATED FILMS ARE. ARE THESE THE BEST?

ROBERT MCKEE>> WELL, I THINK THIS IS THE YEAR THAT I WISH THE ACADEMY HAD CONSIDERED NOT GIVING AN OSCAR, AT LEAST TO BEST PICTURE. THERE'S SOME WONDERFUL PERFORMANCES THIS YEAR. IT'S NOT AS IF THESE FILMS THAT HAVE BEEN NOMINATED ARE BAD FILMS, BY ANY MEANS. THEY'RE GOOD, THEY'RE OKAY, BUT IT'S NOT A VERY INSPIRING YEAR, DID YOU THINK?

VAL>> NOT AT ALL. ROBERT MCKEE, YOU TEACH, OF COURSE, ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR AND LONG-STANDING SCREENWRITING CLASSES IN HOLLYWOOD. WHAT IS YOUR PICK FOR BEST PICTURE EVEN THOUGH, ADMITTEDLY, IT'S NOT A VERY GOOD CROP?

ROBERT MCKEE>> WELL, IT'S DIFFICULT TO CALL THESE THINGS BECAUSE EXCELLENCE IS PART OF THE CRITERIA, BUT THERE'S THE POLITICAL FACTORS. AND WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE ACADEMY AWARDS IN MANY WAYS ARE PR FOR HOLLYWOOD. SO THEY WANT TO MAKE CHOICES THAT, YOU KNOW, REFLECT THEIR BEST SIDE.

JESS>> AND PR FOR THE STUDIOS?

ROBERT MCKEE>> AND PR FOR THE STUDIOS, AND A LOT OF MONEY.

VAL>> AND THERE ARE SENTIMENTAL FAVORITES?

ROBERT MCKEE>> AND THE SENTIMENTALITY GETS INVOLVED IN ALL THE REST OF IT. SO THERE'S TWO SOCIAL DRAMAS, "TRAFFIC" AND "ERIN BROCKOVICH". SOCIAL DRAMA OFTEN DOES WELL ALA "RAINMAN" AND "DRIVING MISS DAISY". BIG SPLASHY FILM, "GLADIATOR", BUT I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A HEART OF STONE NOT TO BE SICKENED BY THE GRATUITOUS SENTIMENTALITY OF THIS FILM.

VAL>> IS THAT RIGHT? I HAVEN'T SEEN IT. SHOULD I NOT BOTHER?

ROBERT MCKEE>> OH, THE HAND GOING THROUGH THE WHEAT FIELDS AND THE RESURRECTION TO HEAVEN. I MEAN, IT WAS SO SENTIMENTAL AND ACTED IN COUNTERPOINT TO THE GRATUITOUS VIOLENCE --

JESS>> -- BUT IT'S A CONTENDER.

ROBERT MCKEE>> IT'S A CONTENDER, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WILL WIN. THERE'S "CHOCOLAT" WHICH IS, AS THE TITLE SUGGESTED, A VERY SWEET FILM AND VERY SENTIMENTAL AS WELL. I HAVE A SUSPICION THAT "CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON" MAY TAKE AWAY THE OSCAR BECAUSE, OF ALL OF THESE FILMS, IT'S THE MOST CHIC, IT'S VERY PC, IT'S --

VAL>> -- BUT IT'S SUBTITLED.

ROBERT MCKEE>> IT INDEED IS SUBTITLED, BUT I THINK -- OBVIOUSLY, THE PEOPLE LOVED THE FILM NONETHELESS BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A VISUAL EXPERIENCE. IT'S WOMEN BEING VIOLENT, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE RESPOND TO POSITIVELY, AND THE STORY IS A WONDERFUL OLD CHINESE TALE AND VERY WELL TOLD. I HAVE A FEELING THAT THIS MIGHT BE THE WINNER, AS A CHOICE WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN REALLY GET EXCITED ABOUT AND JUST DECIDE TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

JESS>> MORE THAN "ERIN BROCKOVICH"?

ROBERT MCKEE>> YES.

VAL>> AND MORE THAN "GLADIATOR", WHICH MANY PEOPLE SAY WAS SORT OF A CONVENTIONAL WISDOM KIND OF FILM.

ROBERT MCKEE>> YES. I JUST HAVE A FEELING THAT WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE SURPRISED, BUT I'VE BEEN WRONG BEFORE.

VAL>> BEST DIRECTOR?

ROBERT MCKEE>> BEST DIRECTOR CHOICE, I THINK, IS GOING TO GO TO ANG LEE AS WELL BECAUSE THE CHOREOGRAPHY AND THE DIRECTION OF "CROUCHING TIGER" IS SOMETHING WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE, WHEREAS "GLADIATOR" IS A VERY CONVENTIONAL SPECIAL EFFECTS FILM AND THE REST OF THEM ARE STEADFAST, WELL-MADE SOCIAL DRAMAS AND SO FORTH. "TRAFFIC" HAS A BIT OF GLITZ, BUT I THINK IT'S NOTHING THAT'S THAT FRESH.

VAL>> VERY GOOD.

ROBERT MCKEE>> SO I HAVE A FEELING THAT ANG LEE MIGHT. THIS FILM MIGHT GET TWO BIG ONES.

JESS>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT "ERIN BROCKOVICH", A BIT OF THAT.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR THAT GOOD LINE.

ROBERT MCKEE>> AND SHE CAN'T LOSE. SHE CAN'T LOSE. THIS IS A LOCK FOR HER. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE PICKING BEST ACTOR AWARDS, YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THE CHARACTER FROM THE ACTOR AND YOU GOT TO WONDER, ARE PEOPLE VOTING FOR THE ACTOR OR ARE THEY VOTING FOR THE CHARACTER? DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN?

JESS>> EXACTLY.

ROBERT MCKEE>> BECAUSE THESE ARE ALL WONDERFUL PERFORMANCES. THESE ARE ALL SUPERB ACTRESSES GIVING GREAT PERFORMANCES, BUT THE CHARACTER OF "ERIN BROCKOVICH" IS SO LOVABLE. SHE'S SUCH AN UNDERDOG. SHE'S SO SARCASTIC AND WONDERFUL THAT IT JUST FILLS YOUR HEART WITH JOY TO SEE THIS WOMAN RISE TO THE OCCASION. I THINK JULIA ROBERTS IS IN A VEHICLE CHARACTER THAT IS GOING TO WIN HANDS DOWN.

VAL>> DO YOU REALLY THINK IT IS AN OSCAR-LEVEL PERFORMANCE OR JUST BECAUSE IT'S A WEAK YEAR?

ROBERT MCKEE>> YOU KNOW, VAL, WHAT'S AN OSCAR-LEVEL PERFORMANCE? (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, LIKE ELLEN BURSTYN IN "REQUIEM FOR A DREAM". AMAZING.

ROBERT MCKEE>> YES, OF COURSE, BUT SHE'S DOING A LOT OF SUFFERING. YOU KNOW, SHE'S DEALING WITH HER PROBLEMS OF ADDICTIONS AND WHATNOT. THAT KIND OF -- I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT THAT IS NOT HARD TO DO, YOU UNDERSTAND?

VAL>> I SEE.

ROBERT MCKEE>> I MEAN, IT'S GOOD STUFF, STRONG STUFF, BUT THAT KIND OF OVERT SUFFERING ACTORS JUST EAT UP, AS THEY SHOULD, BUT THAT'S NOT ACTING. IT'S ALSO ACTING JUST TO GLANCE AT SOMEBODY AND SAY A THOUSAND WORDS IN A GLANCE. THAT TOO IS ACTING, YOU KNOW? NO, I THINK JULIA ROBERTS HAS GOT A LOCK ON THIS.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO THE BEST ACTOR NOMINATION FROM "POLLOCK". LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> BUT YOU DON'T THINK ED HARRIS --

ROBERT MCKEE>> I DO.

JESS>> YOU DO THINK?

ROBERT MCKEE>> OH, YES, YES.

JESS>> AH, OVER TOM HANKS?

ROBERT MCKEE>> ALL OF THE PERFORMANCES HERE IN THE FIVE BEST ACTORS, THIS IS THE -- TALK ABOUT SUFFERING. THIS IS THE SUFFERING CHARACTER LIST. YOU GOT THREE SUFFERING ARTISTS, A GUY SUFFERING AS A SLAVE AND A GUY SUFFERING ON A DESERT ISLAND. THIS IS A SUFFERING CONTEST, OKAY? TOM HANKS HAS WON TOO OFTEN.

JESS>> THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

ROBERT MCKEE>> THIS IS THE POLITICS OF IT, RIGHT? GEOFFREY RUSH IS PLAYING THE MARQUIS DE SADE, NOT A CHARACTER WE'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR --

VAL>> -- OH, I SEE.

ROBERT MCKEE>> -- AND HE'S BRILLIANT IN IT. JAVIER BARDEM IS PLAYING A HOMOSEXUAL, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT GATHER VOTES, YOU UNDERSTAND, UNLESS YOU MAY THINK THAT. RUSSELL CROWE IS JUST SORT OF STOIC. I DON'T THINK IT'S A GREAT PERFORMANCE. HE JUST SORT OF STANDS THERE LOOKING TOUGH DOING NOT MUCH OF ANYTHING. AND ED HARRIS GIVES A GREAT PERFORMANCE AND HE'S A HOLLYWOOD STALWART. HE'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, A LOCK IN SO MANY FILMS --

VAL>> -- HE HAS NOT WON BEFORE?

ROBERT MCKEE>> NEVER WON BEFORE, AND IT'S LIKE ED'S TIME, SO I SAID --

JESS>> -- EXCEPT THAT THIS IS THE YEAR NOT TO GIVE ANY (LAUGHTER).

ROBERT MCKEE>> (LAUGHTER) FOR BEST PICTURE. EVERYBODY ELSE, THEY DESERVE THEIR OSCARS.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) ROBERT MCKEE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BY. I HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT YEAR, IF NOT SOONER.

ROBERT MCKEE>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

JESS>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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