9/05/01

LC010905

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE LOSING THE NUMBERS GAME IN LOS ANGELES. THE QUESTION IS, ARE THEY ALSO LOSING GROUND AT CITY HALL?

GAY YEE>> AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE OUTNUMBERED BY LATINOS FOUR TO ONE. CAN THEY STILL HANG ONTO THE POLITICAL POWER BASE THEY CARVED OUT IN L.A. A GENERATION AGO?

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> ULTIMATELY, IT IS GOING TO BE MEASURED BY THOSE WHO ARE REGISTERED -- FIRST OF ALL, THOSE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE, THOSE WHO THEN ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE AND THEN THOSE WHO ACTUALLY GET OUT TO VOTE.

VAL>> AND WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD A SCHOOL OFFICIAL TALK ABOUT PLEASING HIS "CUSTOMERS"? TONIGHT YOU'LL MEET AN ALL-BUSINESS SUPERINTENDENT FROM PASADENA. HE'S GOT SOME NEW IDEAS ON HOW TO FIX OUR AILING PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

JESS>> SPEAKING OF NEW IDEAS, NASA HAS COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT WAY TO EXPLORE OUR NEIGHBORS IN SPACE. TONIGHT YOU'LL SEE HOW AN ACCIDENT INSPIRED A VEHICLE THAT MIGHT SOMEDAY TUMBLE OVER THE SURFACE OF MARS AND WE'LL MEET THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SCIENTIST WHO CONCEIVED IT.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

LOS ANGELES IS NOW A CITY WITHOUT A MAJORITY. AS A RESULT, ALMOST ANYONE COULD QUALIFY AS A MINORITY. THE LATEST CENSUS MAKES THAT FAIRLY CLEAR. AND IF WHITES ARE WORRIED ABOUT LOSING SOME OF THEIR POLITICAL CLOUT, THEY'RE NOT ALONE. SO ARE AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

VAL>> LATINOS ARE BECOMING THE DOMINANT GROUP IN LOS ANGELES, AT LEAST IN SHEER NUMBERS, AND AS THEY TRY TO EXPAND THEIR POLITICAL TURF, THEY'RE GOING AFTER SOME NEIGHBORHOODS THAT USED TO BE SOLIDLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN. WELL, TONIGHT GAY YEE REPORTS ON HOW THAT'S TURNING INTO A MAJOR BATTLE AT L.A.'S CITY HALL.

GAY>> IN A BIG CITY AS DIVERSE AS LOS ANGELES, TURF BATTLES ARE NOTHING NEW, WHETHER IT'S RICH VERSUS POOR, WHITE VERSUS MINORITIES, OR SOME OTHER VARIATION THAT PITS ONE SECTOR OF THE MELTING POT AGAINST ANOTHER. BUT THE LATEST BATTLE AT CITY HALL STANDS OUT LARGELY BECAUSE MANY OF THE OLD POLITICAL RULES ARE BEING REWRITTEN.

IT'S A CONTEST BETWEEN AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND LATINOS OVER WHO WILL HAVE A LARGER SAY OVER L.A.'S FUTURE AND IT COMES AS THE CITY IS ABOUT TO REDRAW THE LINES FOR CITY COUNCIL DISTRICTS. IN MANY CASES, THEY'RE BECOMING BATTLE LINES AS AFRICAN-AMERICANS TRY TO HOLD ONTO THE POWER BASE THEY ESTABLISHED A GENERATION AGO. THE ONLY PROBLEM, LATINOS NOW OUTNUMBER BLACKS IN LOS ANGELES BY A FOUR TO ONE MARGIN. AND AS THE POLITICAL PIE IS BEING SLICED UP, THEY WANT A BIGGER PIECE.

NICK PACHECO>> WELL, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN LEADERSHIP COMES UP WITH IN TERMS OF DISTRICT MAPS AND HOW THEY'RE GOING TO REDRAW THE LINES DEALING WITH THE SMALLER NUMBERS SO THAT THEY CAN MAINTAIN THEIR THREE MEMBERS.

GAY>> IT'S A BATTLE OF NUMBERS, NEIGHBORHOODS AND NEW CENTURY POLITICS. COUNCILMAN MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS SAYS IT'S NOT ABOUT WHO OUTNUMBERS WHOM, BUT RATHER WHO VOTES.

MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS>> ULTIMATELY, IT IS GOING TO BE MEASURED BY THOSE WHO ARE REGISTERED -- FIRST OF ALL, THOSE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE, THOSE WHO THEN ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE AND THEN THOSE WHO ACTUALLY GET OUT TO VOTE. IT JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE THE CASE THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER IN THEIR REGISTRATION THAN LATINOS.

GAY>> THOMAS THINKS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN IS CAPABLE OF REPRESENTING ALL MINORITY INTERESTS, BLACK OR BROWN, BUT THESE TENSIONS HAVE FLARED UP BEFORE. JUST THIS SUMMER, BLACKS PROTESTED THEY WERE KEPT OUT OF COMMITTEE APPOINTMENTS HANDED DOWN BY THE LATINO COUNCIL PRESIDENT.

NICK PACHECO>> TO HAVE SOMEONE SAY THAT AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN CAN REPRESENT ALL MINORITY VIEWPOINTS, I REALLY HAVE TO QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S A GENUINE STATEMENT WHEN THEY WOULDN'T ACCEPT THAT FROM THE LATINO VIEWPOINT.

RICK ORLOFF>> THERE IS SOME NATURAL TENSION BETWEEN THE ETHNIC COMMUNITIES OF WHO'S GOING TO HAVE THEIR SAY AND A SAY IN HOW POLICIES ARE DEVELOPED.

GAY>> RICK ORLOFF WORKS THE CITY HALL BEAT FOR THE DAILY NEWS.

RICK ORLOFF>> LATINOS ARE GROWING TREMENDOUSLY THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND PARTICULARLY IN THE INNER CITY WHERE THE NINTH COUNCIL DISTRICT, FOR INSTANCE, IS PROBABLY MORE LATINO THAN AFRICAN-AMERICAN NOW.

GAY>> ORLOFF SAYS THE CITY GOES THROUGH THIS BATTLE OVER REAPPORTIONMENT EVERY TEN YEARS AFTER THE CENSUS, BUT THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME AROUND.

RICK ORLOFF>> WHAT'S DIFFERENT THIS YEAR IS WE HAVE A NEW CHARTER IN EFFECT AND A CITIZENS COMMISSION IS GOING TO BE APPOINTED.

GAY>> AND THEN THERE ARE TERM LIMITS, WHICH ORLOFF SAYS CREATE MORE WIGGLE ROOM.

RICK ORLOFF>> YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE COUNCIL MEMBERS RIDLEY-THOMAS, HOLDEN, GALANTER AND BERNSON LEAVING OFFICE IN 2003 AND PARTICULARLY THE GALANTER, HOLDEN, RIDLEY-THOMAS SEATS HAVE SOME ROOM BECAUSE THOSE REPRESENT MUCH OF THE SOUTH LOS ANGELES AND INNER CITY DISTRICTS SO THAT YOU COULD, FROM ONE PERSPECTIVE, HOLD OFF A FIGHT BETWEEN LATINOS AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS ON KEEPING THREE BLACK DISTRICTS.

GAY>> EVERY TIME THESE KIND OF POLITICAL TURF BATTLES START, THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE THEY COULD WIND UP IN COURT.

NICK PACHECO>> WE SAW THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES GET SUED WHERE THEY ACTIVELY AND PROACTIVELY TRIED TO SUPPRESS THE LATINO VOTE. MALDEF TOOK THEM TO COURT. THE COURTS RULED IN FAVOR OF THE LATINO COMMUNITY THAT THE BOARD WAS ACTIVELY TRYING TO SUPPRESS THEIR BASIC REPRESENTATION.

GAY>> BLACKS AND LATINOS MAY NOT WIND UP THERE THIS GO-AROUND, BUT ORLOFF SAYS THE POLITICAL BACKROOMS WILL STILL SEE --

RICK ORLOFF>> A LOT OF HORSE TRADING.

JESS>> GAY YEE JOINS US NOW TO TALK ABOUT WHAT LIES AHEAD AT CITY HALL AND, WITH HER, A VETERAN OBSERVER OF LOS ANGELES POLITICS, DICK ROSENGARTEN. HE'S PUBLISHER OF CALPEEK, A POLITICAL NEWSLETTER. THANKS FOR JOINING US.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> A PLEASURE.

JESS>> LOST IN ALL THIS ARGUMENT IS THE NOTION THAT, WHILE THEY'RE ELECTED BY DISTRICT, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL REPRESENT EVERY CITIZEN IN THE COMMUNITY, DO THEY NOT?

GAY>> THAT'S TRUE.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> YEAH. BAKER VERSUS CARR IN 1960. ONE MAN, ONE VOTE, OR ONE WOMAN, ONE VOTE, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO SAY IT. SO WHEN THEY REAPPORTION ALL THE DISTRICTS, IT'S BASED UPON POPULATION, NOT REGISTERED VOTERS.

JESS>> OR NOT HOW MANY TURNED OUT TO VOTE.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> OR NOT HOW MANY TURNED OUT, EXACTLY.

GAY>> BUT, DICK, YOU HEAR OVER AND OVER AGAIN, COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST, COMMUNITY OF INTEREST. WHAT DO THEY MEAN BY THAT?

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> WELL, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, -- I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A -- IT'S A VERY, VERY, VERY TOUCHY SUBJECT. I MEAN, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE IN POPULATION SHIFT, DEMOGRAPHICS AND EVERYTHING. WHAT COUNCILMAN PACHECO SAID, CAN AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN REPRESENT THE HISPANICS AND LATINOS? I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT. I THINK THAT THEY HAVE IN THE PAST.

MAXINE WATERS, PERFECT EXAMPLE, BLACK CONGRESSWOMAN. HER DISTRICT IS PREDOMINANTLY HISPANIC NOW, BUT I THINK SHE DOES A PRETTY DARN GOOD JOB IN REPRESENTING THEM. WHAT WE NEED MORE OF IS, WE NEED MORE CROSS-OVER CANDIDATES ALA JULIAN DIXON, THE LATE CONGRESSMAN WHOSE DISTRICT WAS VERY, VERY DIVERSE. WHITES, HISPANICS, ASIANS, JEWS, EVERYTHING.

VAL>> WELL, LOOK AT KENNY HAHN.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> OR KENNY HAHN, EXACTLY. OR JIMMY HAHN.

JESS>> BUT, IN FACT, IN REDISTRICTING, ONE OF THE FACTORS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION IS THE ETHNIC MAKEUP.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> YES, THAT'S VERY TRUE AND YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL OF THE COURTS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE, YOU KNOW, STEPPING ON A COMMUNITY AND SPLITTING UP THE VOTE.

VAL>> THAT'S BEEN LOST IN COURT WHEN THEY'VE TRIED THAT BEFORE.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> YEAH.

GAY>> BUT MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS HAS A GOOD POINT WHEN HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS WHO'S IN THERE IN THE VOTING BOOTH AND THAT THE PREDOMINANT VOTERS IN, SAY, DISTRICT NINE ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> YEAH, BUT IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE NINTH DISTRICT, PARTICULARLY DOWNTOWN, AND YOU GO ON BROADWAY, SORRY TO SAY IT, BUT YOU DON'T SEE TOO MANY AFRICAN-AMERICAN FACES. THEY'RE PRACTICALLY ALL LATINO AND I THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW -- WE SEE THIS TENSION THAT'S BUILDING HERE AND IT WASN'T JUST THE CITY COUNCIL APPOINTMENTS. THIS IS -- IF YOU TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT CAN TEAR L.A. APART, IT'S REDISTRICTING, AND THE POOR GUY WHO'S CAUGHT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, OF COURSE, IS MAYOR JIM HAHN. I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT IT FROM THE POLITICS OF IT.

VAL>> WELL, TELL US THEN ABOUT THE PROCESS OF THIS VERY, VERY SENSITIVE THING. IT IS EFFECTED BY THE NEW CHARTER, YES?

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> RIGHT. CHARTER REFORM. THEY'VE DECIDED TO SET UP A REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION. THERE ARE 21 PRIVATE CITIZENS. I KNOW A COUPLE OF THEM AND THEY ARE WELL-CONNECTED INSIDERS. THEN THEY WILL BASICALLY HAVE A STAFF AND A CONSULTANT WHO WILL HELP THEM DRAW THE LINES. THEY WILL SUBMIT IT TO THE COUNCIL AND IT GOES TO A COUNCIL COMMITTEE COMPOSED OF THE COUNCIL PRESIDENT, ALEX PADILLA, CINDY MISCIKOWSKI WHO'S FROM THE WEST SIDE, AND MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS. THOSE THREE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE TO VOTE ON THIS PLAN. THEN THEY GIVE IT TO THE FULL COUNCIL.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A WAY OUT OF THIS FOR THE WHOLE COUNCIL. THEY COULD HAVE DONE EVERYTHING THAT THEY WANTED TO DO. SATISFY THE BLACKS, SATISFY THE LATINOS, SATISFY THE VALLEY PEOPLE. WHEN JOHN FERRARO PASSED AWAY, IF THE CITY COUNCIL HAD BEEN SMART, WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IS THEY WOULD HAVE JUST HELD THE SEAT OPEN, GIVEN IT TO A CARETAKER AND THEN, WHEN THEY DID THIS REAPPORTIONMENT, DIVVY UP HIS SEAT SO THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ALL THESE HURT AND BENT EGOS AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH EASIER IF THEY HAD DONE THAT, BUT THEY DIDN'T AND THERE'S AN ELECTION COMING UP ON SEPTEMBER 11 TO FILL THE SEAT.

GAY>> WELL, WHAT ABOUT TERM LIMITS? WOULD THAT KIND OF RESOLVE SOME OF THESE THINGS AS WELL?

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> WELL, TERM LIMITS CAN BECAUSE, AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR STORY, RUTH GALANTER IS LEAVING, HAL BERNSON IS LEAVING AND I THINK -- WELL, NATE HOLDEN IS LEAVING --

GAY>> -- RIDLEY-THOMAS.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> RIDLEY-THOMAS IS GOING TO BE LEAVING IN TWO YEARS, SO THERE'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER BIG TURNOVER. RIGHT NOW THERE ARE THREE LATINO SEATS, PREDOMINANTLY LATINO SEATS, THREE AFRICAN-AMERICAN SEATS. LATINOS ARE PUSHING FOR A FOURTH SEAT. NOW THE QUESTION IS, IS ERIC GARCETTI LATINO OR NOT? (LAUGHTER) HE MAY BE, BUT, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT ANOTHER FULL SEAT OTHER THAN ERIC GARCETTI.

JESS>> TO WHAT EXTENT WAS THE LATINO POLITICAL CLOUT LESSENED BY THE DEFEAT OF VILLARAIGOSA?

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> WELL, I DON'T REALLY THINK IT WAS ALL THAT MUCH. THE LATINO COMMUNITY WAS A LITTLE BIT SPLIT AND FRACTURED. IF HE HAD WON, EVERYONE WOULD BE SAYING THE SLEEPING GIANT HAS AWOKEN AND HERE WE HAVE THE MAYOR OF THE SECOND LARGEST CITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

JESS>> AND, INDEED, MANY WERE PREDICTING EXACTLY THAT.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, BUT IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN.

VAL>> DIDN'T HAPPEN. DOESN'T MEAN, THOUGH, THAT THERE ISN'T A GROWING INCREMENTAL IN LATINO POLITICS.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> OH, YEAH. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, VAL.

VAL>> DICK ROSENGARTEN FROM CALPEEK, A MUST-READ FOR ANY POLITICAL INSIDER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BY.

DICK ROSENGARTEN>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> THURSDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, AN IMPORTANT STORY YOU WILL WANT TO SEE. IT'S ABOUT A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR DEVELOPMENT IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES, BUT HOW MUCH WILL IT WIND UP COSTING TAXPAYERS?

PHILIP BRUCE>> THEY'RE CALLING IT THE TIMES SQUARE OF THE WEST COAST, A HUGE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT THAT MAY BE BUILT ON THE EDGE OF DOWNTOWN NEAR STAPLES, BUT ARE THE BRIGHT LIGHTS AND NEW BUSINESSES WORTH ALL THE PUBLIC MONEY THE PROJECT MAY COST, ESPECIALLY SINCE PRIVATE DEVELOPERS WILL OWN IT?

VAL>> THAT'S THURSDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES AT 7:00 P.M.

JESS>> WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO TURN AROUND AN UNDER-PERFORMING SCHOOL SYSTEM? THE NEW CHIEF OF PASADENA UNIFIED SCHOOLS IS PUTTING THE EMPHASIS ON CUSTOMER SERVICE.

VAL>> PERCY CLARK TAKES OVER A DISTRICT WHERE TEACHER MORALE IS LOW, TURNOVER IS HIGH AND THE STUDENTS RANK IN THE BOTTOM THIRD ON STATEWIDE TEST SCORES. CLARK SAID, IN ONE RECENT INTERVIEW, IT'S TIME FOR THE DISTRICT TO START SERVING ITS CUSTOMERS, MEANING STUDENTS.

JESS>> PASADENA UNIFIED SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT, PERCY CLARK. WELCOME. THANKS FOR JOINING US.

PERCY CLARK>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> YOU'RE A MAN DESCRIBED AS ONE WHO LIKES A CHALLENGE. IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE YOU HAVE A CHALLENGE IN MULTIPLES IN PASADENA.

PERCY CLARK>> YES. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CHALLENGES, BUT I LIKE TO THINK OF IT AS TRUE OPPORTUNITY.

VAL>> NOW YOU WERE CREDITED WITH ABSOLUTELY TURNING AROUND AN UNDER-PERFORMING SCHOOL DISTRICT IN INDIANA. ARE YOU FACING THE SAME KIND OF CHALLENGES? WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO DO IN PASADENA?

PERCY CLARK>> MANY OF THE SAME CHALLENGES, ALTHOUGH WHAT'S VERY POSITIVE IN PASADENA, WE HAD TO DEVELOP THE LOVE FOR EDUCATION IN THE STATE OF INDIANA. IN PASADENA, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT TRULY KNOW THE VALUE OF EDUCATION AND THERE'S A LOVE FOR EDUCATION. IT'S JUST --

JESS>> -- A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE, HOWEVER, SENT THEIR CHILDREN TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND MOVED OUT OF THE DISTRICT.

PERCY CLARK>> YES, A NUMBER OF THEM HAVE, BUT WE'VE STILL GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN OUR LATINO AND OUR AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY THAT REALLY WANT TO SEE A SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT'S NOT ONLY THE BEST IN THE STATE, BUT MAYBE IN THIS NATION. SO THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD FEELINGS ABOUT EDUCATION. IT'S A MATTER OF COMMUNICATING AND PUTTING EVERYTHING TOGETHER.

VAL>> NOW YOU'VE BEEN DESCRIBED AS "THE MOST AGGRESSIVE AND INNOVATIVE SUPERINTENDENT I'VE EVER MET". SOMEBODY IN INDIANA DESCRIBED YOU AS THAT. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT'S INNOVATIVE AND DIFFERENT?

PERCY CLARK>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO CREATE NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS. BUSING, AS WE HAVE KNOWN IT IN THE PAST, IS ENDING.

JESS>> IS THAT, INDEED, PART OF PASADENA'S PROBLEM, THE HISTORY OF BUSING?

PERCY CLARK>> OH, DEFINITELY. WE'VE MOVED AWAY FROM NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS. I THINK BUSING, AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY ORIGINATED AND A LOT OF US SUPPORTED IT, WE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE THE MAGIC, THAT WE TRULY WOULD FIND CERTAIN CHILDREN THAT WOULD GAIN AN EDUCATIONAL ADVANTAGE. FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, IT DIDN'T WORK. IT DIDN'T WORK IN INDIANA --

JESS>> -- BECAUSE OF --

PERCY CLARK>> -- THERE'S NOTHING MAGICAL ABOUT JUST BRINGING KIDS TOGETHER LOGISTICALLY. YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A GOOD CURRICULUM, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE DEDICATED TEACHERS. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S HARD WORK. IT'S JUST NOT MAGIC TO BRING KIDS TOGETHER. WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS. WE'VE GOT TO CREATE MORE CHOICE. HOPEFULLY, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT A VISUAL AND PERFORMING ARTS SCHOOL, A CLASSICAL SCHOOL, A MATH-SCIENCE SCHOOL AND WITH EVERY KID AS CLOSE TO A NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOL AS POSSIBLE. THAT'S A BEGINNING.

VAL>> ARE THESE MAGNET SCHOOLS, IN A SENSE?

PERCY CLARK>> YES. I LIKE TO CALL THEM CHOICE SCHOOLS.

VAL>> CHOICE SCHOOLS, OKAY.

PERCY CLARK>> BUT THEY'RE REALLY MAGNET SCHOOLS. THEY'RE CHOICES THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE AND WE'D LIKE TO HAVE A VARIETY SO THAT WE WOULD PICK UP OUR CUSTOMERS IN TERMS OF THEIR INTERESTS AND EVERYTHING IS DRIVEN BY YOUR CUSTOMERS. WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT IN EDUCATION? 

VAL>> WHICH IS WHO YOU CALL STUDENTS, YES?

PERCY CLARK>> THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. WELL, OUR CUSTOMERS ARE OUR STUDENTS AND THEIR PARENTS, BOTH. BOTH ARE OUR CUSTOMERS. RIGHT NOW, I WOULD SAY THAT PARENTS ARE PROBABLY THE BEST SHOPPERS THAT THEY'VE EVER BEEN IN TERMS OF EDUCATION. THEY KNOW MORE OF WHAT THEY WANT AND WHAT THEY DESIRE AND IT STARTS AND ENDS WITH TEST SCORES.

THE MEDIA HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OF FOCUSING ON TEST SCORES. BECAUSE OF OUR SLOW MOVEMENT TO REFORM SCHOOLS, TEST SCORES HAVE BECOME PARAMOUNT. OUR SAT NINE SCORES, WHILE WE'RE INCREASING IN THE ELEMENTARY, WE AREN'T IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS. BUT IF WE CAN GET OUR SAT NINE SCORES UP IN THE 70TH AND 80TH PERCENTILE, AND CREATE CHOICE AND CREATE NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START LOOKING AT PASADENA.

VAL>> BUT THAT'S TOUGH TO GET THOSE TEST SCORES UP BECAUSE IN PASADENA YOU'VE GOT, WHAT, ONE-QUARTER OF YOUR TEACHERS ON EMERGENCY CREDENTIALS?

PERCY CLARK>> WELL, WE'RE CHANGING THAT BECAUSE, THIS YEAR, WE'VE HIRED 160 TEACHERS AND THERE ARE JUST A SMALL NUMBER ON EMERGENCY CREDENTIALS, SO WE'VE HAD A BANNER YEAR THIS YEAR BECAUSE WE STARTED EARLIER, WE'VE GOT A SPECIAL GRANT, WE'RE PAYING BONUSES, PLUS OUR SALARY SCHEDULE IS VERY COMPETITIVE ZERO TO SEVEN YEARS. AFTER SEVEN YEARS IS WHERE, UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE NOT COMPETITIVE. WE'VE HAD A BANNER YEAR, SO WE'RE MOVING. IN FACT, OUR DISTRICT SHOULD BE BELOW TWENTY PERCENT IN TERMS OF EMERGENCY CREDENTIALS, SO WE'VE MADE A BIG STRIDE THERE.

JESS>> YOU'VE DEVELOPED ONE INNOVATIVE NOTION THAT SHOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT IN THAT YOUR REQUIREMENT THAT ADMINISTRATORS, PRINCIPALS AND OTHERS SPEND AT LEAST PART OF THE TIME IN THE CLASSROOM TEACHING.

PERCY CLARK>> WELL, WE'RE GOING TO GET OUT IN SCHOOLS BECAUSE THAT'S OUR PRODUCT. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT TO GET OUT AND KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE KIDS AND ALL OF MY CENTRAL OFFICE WILL SUBSTITUTE A HALF A DAY A WEEK INCLUDING --

VAL>> SUBSTITUTING?

PERCY CLARK>> YES, WE WILL ACTUALLY SUBSTITUTE IN CLASSROOMS. I FEEL THAT I'M A TEACHER. NOW I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE SUPERINTENDENT. I'VE HAD SOME LUCK IN MY CAREER, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST, I'M A TEACHER. ALL OF US --

VAL>> -- SO YOU'RE GOING TO BE SUBSTITUTING? (LAUGHTER)

PERCY CLARK>> I WILL BE SUBSTITUTING A HALF A DAY A WEEK IN CLASSROOMS, ALSO MY ENTIRE CENTRAL OFFICE, SO WE'RE OUT THERE TO FIND OUT --

VAL>> -- HOW HAS THAT IDEA BEEN MET? HAS IT BEEN MET WITH RESISTANCE?

PERCY CLARK>> OH, NO, NO, NO. I THINK TEACHERS HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY SUPPORTIVE.

VAL>> TEACHERS, YES, BUT HOW ABOUT ALL THE ADMINISTRATORS AND EVERYBODY? (LAUGHTER)

PERCY CLARK>> (LAUGHTER) LET'S SAY, MIXED REACTION. THEY NEED TO START TAKING THEIR VITAMINS BECAUSE IT'S TOUGH TO SUBSTITUTE EVEN FOR A HALF A DAY. TEACHING IS HARD WORK. BUT THAT WILL INFLUENCE EVERY MEETING THAT WE HAVE AS A CENTRAL OFFICE. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT PROGRAMS, WE WILL CENTER ON CHILDREN AND TEACHERS AND THAT'S WHAT IS THE CENTERPIECE IN TERMS OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. I THINK IT'S GOING TO MOVE US QUICKER IN TERMS OF OUR GOAL, WHICH IS TO BE THE TOP SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

JESS>> YOU HAD GREAT SUCCESS IN INDIANA, THE INDIANAPOLIS AREA.

PERCY CLARK>> YES, I DID.

JESS>> PASADENA'S DIFFERENT, THOUGH. ANY SURPRISES?

PERCY CLARK>> I'M A LITTLE SURPRISED ABOUT SOME OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT I'VE NOT FOUND, FOR EXAMPLE, TECHNOLOGY. I MEAN, EVERYBODY THINKS THAT CALIFORNIA, I MEAN, THIS IS THE HEARTBEAT OF TECHNOLOGY --

JESS>> -- AND CAL TECH.

PERCY CLARK>> AND CAL TECH.

VAL>> AND JPL IS RIGHT IN PASADENA.

PERCY CLARK>> AND WE'RE BACK AT THE BEGINNING. I MEAN, WE DO NOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF TECHNOLOGY LIKE WE SHOULD. NOW WE'RE GOING TO USE E RATE FUNDING AND, HOPEFULLY, WITHIN THE NEXT SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OUR ADMINISTRATIVE TECHNOLOGY. BUT IN OUR CURRICULUM AND INSTRUCTION, HOPEFULLY, OVER THE NEXT TWO TO THREE YEARS, WE'LL BE VERY COMPETITIVE IN TECHNOLOGY. MAYBE THERE, BY WAITING -- YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY IS CHANGING. THOSE PEOPLE THAT GOT IN TEN YEARS AGO OR FIVE YEARS AGO HAVE HAD TO CHANGE AND MAYBE WE'VE MISSED SOME OF THAT. I'M TRYING TO GIVE SOME RATIONALE, BUT REALLY THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR WHERE WE ARE IN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.

VAL>> ANY OTHER INNOVATIVE OR CONTROVERSIAL CHANGES?

PERCY CLARK>> WELL, WE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT A GREAT DEAL IN TERMS OF HOW TO HELP TEACHERS BECOME TRUE INSTRUCTIONAL MASTERS. WE'RE GOING TO DO A LOT OF STAFF DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE GOING TO DO A LOT OF LOOKING AT OUR CURRICULUM, HOW TO COORDINATE IT BOTH VERTICALLY AND HORIZONTALLY. OUR CURRICULUM IS DATED AND NOT IN PLACE LIKE IT SHOULD BE, SO WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO HORIZONTALLY AND VERTICALLY COMMUNICATE IN TERMS OF OUR CURRICULUM. WE'RE GOING TO BE VERY CUSTOMER-SENSITIVE. IF YOU CALL OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT, YOU'LL GET A CALL BACK THE SAME DAY. WE'RE GOING TO BE RESPONSIVE AND HELPFUL AND TREAT PEOPLE LIKE WE WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED.

JESS>> YOU'RE GOING TO BE BUSY. (LAUGHTER)

PERCY CLARK>> (LAUGHTER) YES, YES, WE ARE.

VAL>> PERCY CLARK, WE WISH YOU THE BEST. WE'LL CHECK IN WITH YOU IN A YEAR OR SO TO SEE HOW YOU'RE DOING.

PERCY CLARK>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> SO WHAT DO YOU THINK OF TREATING SCHOOLS LIKE BUSINESSES AND STUDENTS LIKE CUSTOMERS? DO YOU AGREE WITH PERCY CLARK'S VIEW? LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. HERE IS HOW YOU REACH US:

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VAL>> IN JULY OF 1997, A SMALL SIX-WHEELED ROBOT KNOWN AS SOJOURNER STARTED EXPLORING THE SURFACE OF MARS. IT SENT BACK THOUSANDS OF IMAGES OF THE RED PLANET, BUT EVEN THOUGH SOJOURNER DID ITS JOB VERY WELL, IT DID RUN INTO A FEW PROBLEMS NAVIGATING THE ROCKY SURFACE. WELL, NOW THERE'S A NEW IDEA FOR THE NEXT MARTIAN ROVER AND IT LOOKS A WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT.

JESS>> INDEED IT DOES. PICTURE A GIANT BEACH BALL. THAT'S RIGHT, A GIANT INFLATABLE BALL THAT COULD CLIMB OVER EVERYTHING THE MARTIAN TERRAIN COULD PUT IN ITS WAY. SCIENTISTS COMPARE IT TO A TUMBLEWEED MOVING ACROSS THE DESERT. HOW WOULD THIS NEW TUMBLEWEED ROVER WORK?

VAL>> WELL, HERE TO TELL US IS THE INVENTOR, JACK JONES OF THE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY IN PASADENA. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

JACK JONES>> WELL, THANK YOU.

JESS>> THIS IS WIND-DRIVEN.

VAL>> WIND-DRIVEN, REALLY?

JACK JONES>> THAT'S RIGHT.

JESS>> AND YOU DISCOVERED IT HOW?

JACK JONES>> WELL, IT WAS KIND OF AN ACCIDENT. THE IDEA HAD BEEN KICKING AROUND FOR A WHILE, BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL WE WERE OUT IN THE DESERT ABOUT A YEAR AGO, WE WERE TESTING A LARGE INFLATABLE ROVER WITH BIG FIVE-FOOT DIAMETER TIRES. IT WAS A WINDY DAY AND ONE OF THE TIRES GOT AWAY FROM US. IT TOOK OFF UP THIS SAND DUNE LIKE CRAZY.

JESS>> BY ITSELF?

JACK JONES>> ALL BY ITSELF. (LAUGHTER) IT WENT DOWN THE BACK SIDE AND UP THE NEXT ONE AND WE HAD TO THUMB A RIDE ON AN ATV TO CATCH IT.

VAL>> BUT IT GAVE YOU AN IDEA FOR ACTUALLY MAKING A BUBBLE, A BIG BALL, RIGHT?

JACK JONES>> THAT'S RIGHT, A BIG BALL.

VAL>> SO THAT'S WHAT YOU DID AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE?

JACK JONES>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

JESS>> AND CLEARLY CAN SURVIVE THE LANDING.

JACK JONES>> THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DEMONSTRATING HERE. WE RAN A NUMBER OF TESTS OUT OF EL MIRAGE DRY LAKE OUT IN THE DESERT --

JESS>> -- IT CAN HANDLE ROCKS, YUCCA (LAUGHTER) --

JACK JONES>> -- AND WE RAN OVER ROCKS AND VARIOUS --

VAL>> -- SAGEBRUSH.

JACK JONES>> -- PLANTS AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS AND NOTHING SEEMED TO STOP IT.

VAL>> AND, OF COURSE, WHAT'S INSIDE THERE IS A CAMERA.

JACK JONES>> THAT IS RIGHT. CAMERAS AND OTHER SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS, THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> SO HOW IS IT INSIDE A BEACH BALL AND IT CAN STILL WORK? THAT'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND. WOULDN'T IT ALL TUMBLE AROUND AND GO UPSIDE DOWN?

JACK JONES>> INDEED, IT WOULD TURN AROUND. IT'S PACKAGED IN THE MIDDLE. ALL THE INSTRUMENTS ARE IN THE MIDDLE AND THEY'RE TIED WITH TENSION CORDS TO THE OUTSIDE AND WOULD ROLL OVER ABOUT ONCE EVERY SECOND OR SO, BUT IT'S HELD IN THERE PRETTY FIRMLY.

JESS>> IT'S POWERED BY THE WIND, BUT IT'S ALSO DEPENDENT UPON THE WIND. HOW DO YOU CONTROL IT?

JACK JONES>> TWO WAYS TO CONTROL IT. ONE, WE CAN PARTIALLY DEFLATE IT, BASICALLY GIVE IT A FLAT TIRE EFFECT, AND THAT WILL STOP IT, YOU KNOW, WHEREVER IT IS. THE OTHER THING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON IS WE'RE WORKING ON TRYING TO STEER IT WITH THE WIND, BASICALLY SAILING IT ON THE MARTIAN SURFACE BY CHANGING THE CENTER OF GRAVITY OF THE BALL.

JESS>> YOU'LL HAVE TO USE SOME BALLAST TO DO THAT?

JACK JONES>> THAT'S RIGHT, YES.

VAL>> NOW YOU ACTUALLY BROUGHT IN A SMALLER VERSION OF THIS TUMBLEWEED YOU'RE CALLING IT. HERE IN THE STUDIO PEOPLE CAN LOOK AT THE WIDE SHOT.

JACK JONES>> THIS IS OUR --

JESS>> -- THIS IS, WHAT, A ONE-QUARTER SCALE?

JACK JONES>> THIS IS ONE-QUARTER SCALE. THIS IS FIVE FEET IN DIAMETER --

JESS>> -- IT IS A BIG ONE.

JACK JONES>> -- AND WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY THINKING IS ABOUT A TWO-STORY HOUSE, ABOUT TWENTY FEET IN DIAMETER.

VAL>> AND IS THIS THE LENS?

JACK JONES>> THAT'S ONE OF THE CAMERAS, THAT'S RIGHT, AND THEY WOULD BE ON THE AXIS OF THE ROTATION. THEY'D LOOK OUT BOTH SIDES OF THE --

VAL>> -- SO, IN A SENSE, ON THE EARS OF THE BALL.

JACK JONES>> THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> THAT IS AMAZING. NOW THIS IS ONLY, WHAT, ONE-QUARTER OF THE SIZE?

JACK JONES>> IT'S ONE-QUARTER SCALE FROM WHAT WE'D PROBABLY USE FOR MARS.

JESS>> AND NO QUESTION ABOUT THE MATERIAL BEING STRONG ENOUGH TO ENDURE THE ROUGH AND TUMBLE?

JACK JONES>> THE MATERIALS THAT WE WOULD USE WOULD PROBABLY BE THOSE THAT WERE USED ON THE PATHFINDER AIRBAGS IN THE 1977 MARS LANDING. VERY STRONG, TOUGH MATERIAL.

VAL>> THAT'S GREAT. NOW WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOW IT MIGHT LOOK IF IT ACTUALLY BOUNCED AROUND ON MARS. MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE.

JACK JONES>> OKAY, SURE. THIS IS HOW IT WOULD LOOK AS IT'S LANDING. IT WOULD ACT AS AN AIRBAG. AND THIS IS HOW LARGE IT IS COMPARED TO THE PATHFINDER SOJOURNER --

VAL>> -- I SEE. THAT SMALL LITTLE BLUE --

JACK JONES>> -- THAT'S RIGHT. THAT SMALL LITTLE ROVER. WE'RE PROBABLY ABOUT, OH, MANY, MANY TIMES LARGER THAN THAT. WE'RE PARTIALLY DEFLATING NOW AND STOPPING AND WE HAVE A SCIENCE PACKAGE IN THE MIDDLE AND WE HAVE A LITTLE DRILL THAT WILL GO DOWN AND, THROUGH A FLEXIBLE TUBE, SAMPLE THE SOIL EVERY TIME WE STOP. THEN AFTER A WHILE, WE WOULD SEND THESE SIGNALS UP TO AN ORBITING SPACECRAFT --

VAL>> -- THEY'RE SENDING THE DATA AND IMAGES BACK UP?

JACK JONES>> THAT'S RIGHT, SENDING THE DATA TO THE SPACECRAFT AND THEN THIS WOULD SEND IT BACK ON TO EARTH.

VAL>> AND THEN HOW DO YOU GET IT GOING AGAIN?

JACK JONES>> OKAY, WELL, WHEN WE GET ENOUGH WIND ON A WINDY DAY, WE'LL RE-INFLATE THE BALL AND IT WILL GO AND TAKE OFF AGAIN TO A NEW LOCATION.

JESS>> BUT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DO THE TESTING OF THIS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE TESTING IT IN THE DESERT, BUT IN ANTARCTICA?

JACK JONES>> WE'D LIKE TO DO LONG-DISTANCE TESTING IN ANTARCTICA OR POSSIBLY THE CANADIAN ARCTIC. WE NEED TO GET MANY, MANY HUNDREDS OF MILES DEMONSTRATED ON THESE TIRES TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN FUNCTION RELIABLY AND THAT WE CAN INDEED STOP AND TAKE DATA. IN ANTARCTICA, WE'D ACTUALLY BE MEASURING THE DEPTH OF THE ICE AS WE'RE TRAVELING OVER THE ICE PLATES.

VAL>> THAT'S FASCINATING. NOW JUST TO SHOW PEOPLE HOW DIFFERENT IT IS, WE'RE GOING TO SHOW PICTURES OF THE ROVER, WHICH WORKED VERY WELL, BUT IT DID HAVE SOME LIMITATIONS, RIGHT? WHAT WERE SOME OF THE LIMITATIONS?

JACK JONES>> THE SOJOURNER ROVER 1977. THAT WAS AN AMAZING BREAKTHROUGH AT THE TIME, THE FIRST ROVER TO TRAVEL ON A DISTANT PLANET, BUT IT WAS VERY SMALL. EVEN THE LARGER ROVERS TODAY HAVE DIFFICULTY TRAVELING OVER THE ROCKS. THEY HAVE TO TRAVEL AROUND THEM --

JESS>> -- THIS IS NOT ANIMATION? THIS IS ACTUAL FOOTAGE?

JACK JONES>> ACTUAL FOOTAGE, YES. AND IN ITS MONTH OF OPERATION ON THE SURFACE OF MARS, IT ONLY TRAVELED ABOUT A HUNDRED YARDS TOTAL DISTANCE, ABOUT THE LENGTH OF A FOOTBALL FIELD.

JESS>> IT'S STILL REGARDED AS A GREAT SUCCESS?

JACK JONES>> IT WAS A GREAT SUCCESS, BUT WE'LL COVER THAT IN A FEW SECONDS NOW WITH OUR NEW BEACH BALL. (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> THAT IS FANTASTIC. REAL QUICKLY, ANY IDEA OF WHEN THE BEACH BALL MIGHT ACTUALLY BOUNCE AROUND MARS?

JACK JONES>> THE EARLIEST PROJECTION FOR LAUNCH IS PROBABLY ABOUT 2009 OR POSSIBLY LATER.

VAL>> A LONG WAY TO GO.

JESS>> JACK JONES FROM JPL, THANKS A MILLION FOR JOINING US.

JACK JONES>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> YOU CAN FIND MORE INFORMATION AND MORE PICTURES OF THE TUMBLEWEED ON THE WEBSITE, JPL.NASA.GOV.

VAL>> AND PLEASE, I HOPE THEY DON'T SELL ADVERTISING ON THAT BEACH BALL.

JESS>> IT LOOKS SO MUCH LIKE A GRAPEFRUIT, SUNKIST WOULD BE GREAT ON THE SIDE OF IT.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS, PLEASE.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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