9/12/01

LC010912

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> L.A.'S MAYOR REMAINS IN WASHINGTON ON CITY BUSINESS, SO WHO'S IN CHARGE DURING THIS TIME OF CRISIS? THE CITY'S YOUNGEST COUNCILMAN.

ALEX PADILLA>> IN THOSE CRISIS SITUATIONS, THERE ISN'T TIME TO STOP AND THINK. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE RECEIVING BRIEFINGS, YOU'RE GETTING AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE AND MAKING DECISIONS TO SECURE THE SAFETY OF THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> WE'VE ALL SEEN THE FRIGHTENING IMAGES OF DEVASTATION FROM THE TERRORIST ATTACKS, BUT WHAT KIND OF IMPACT DO THOSE PICTURES HAVE ON OUR CHILDREN?

RACHEL HOWARD>> I HEARD MY DAD SAYING, "OH, MY GOD, OH, MY GOD." I RAN INTO THE ROOM AND I SAW THE PLANES GOING INTO THE BUILDINGS AND IT SAID WORLD TRADE CENTER ON THE BOTTOM AND I WAS SHOCKED.

JESS>> AND AS THE NATION TRIES TO FEEL SAFE ONCE AGAIN, THE PRESIDENT VOWS TO FIND THE TERRORISTS AND BRING THEM TO JUSTICE.

PRESIDENT BUSH>> THE DELIBERATE AND DEADLY ATTACKS WHICH WERE CARRIED OUT YESTERDAY AGAINST OUR COUNTRY WERE MORE THAN ACTS OF TERROR. THEY WERE ACTS OF WAR.

VAL>> THESE STORIES AND MORE ALL NEXT ON A SPECIAL LIVE ONE-HOUR LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

THIS WAS THE DAY WHEN THINGS BEGAN RETURNING TO NORMAL, BUT WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT THERE YET. FOR ONE THING, LOS ANGELES REMAINS A NO-FLY ZONE AND, EVEN AFTER THE AIRPORTS FINALLY REOPEN, THEY WILL NOT BE THE SAME.

VAL>> FEDERAL AUTHORITIES ARE IMPOSING TIGHT NEW RESTRICTIONS THAT WILL DRASTICALLY ALTER THE WAY MANY OF US TRAVEL. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY PART OF THE SECURITY CRACKDOWN THAT WILL AFFECT MANY OF US HERE IN LOS ANGELES. AS JIM HILL REPORTS, THE MAN IN CHARGE ISN'T THE MAYOR.

JIM>> WHEN LAX REOPENS, IT WILL BE A NEW HIGH-SECURITY WORLD FOR TRAVELERS. TO START WITH, SIMPLE ACCESS TO THE MAIN TERMINAL WILL NO LONGER BE SO SIMPLE. NO MORE CURBSIDE CHECK-IN, NO MORE CURBSIDE DROP-OFFS, NO MORE PARKING AT ALL IN THE MAIN TERMINAL LOT. ONLY COMMERCIAL VEHICLES LIKE CABS, BUSES AND SHUTTLES WILL BE ALLOWED.

LYDIA KENNARD>> TRAVELERS WILL BE URGED TO AVOID DRIVING TO THE AIRPORT OR BEING DRIVEN TO THE AIRPORT IN PRIVATE VEHICLES, AND PLEASE USE ALTERNATIVE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION SERVICES AVAILABLE.

JIM>> ANYONE USING A PRIVATE CAR WILL HAVE TO PARK IT IN ONE OF TWO REMOTE LOTS AND THEN USE A SHUTTLE, AND ONCE INSIDE THE TERMINAL --

BERNARD WILSON>> YOU WILL SEE A HEIGHTENED LAW ENFORCEMENT PRESENCE HERE. YOU'LL SEE UNIFORMED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS HERE FROM VARIOUS AGENCIES, INCLUDING THE LOS ANGELES CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT AS WELL AS THE AIRPORT POLICE, ALSO FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. WE WILL ALSO HAVE A COMMITMENT HERE TO HAVE PLAINCLOTHES POLICE OFFICERS HERE DOING VARIOUS FUNCTIONS. THOSE, OF COURSE, YOU WON'T SEE, BUT THEY'LL BE HERE.

BERNARD PARKS>> WE HOPE, AS THE AIRPORT OPENS, THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE OUR PLAN IN PLACE THAT WILL CAUSE AND CREATE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE VISIBILITY OF LAPD IN AND AROUND THE AREA.

JIM>> AND THERE WILL BE OTHER SECURITY MEASURES STILL BEING KEPT A SECRET. THE AIRPORT AUTHORITY, MEANWHILE, SAYS NO BREACHES OF SECURITY WERE FOUND DURING A CHECK OF THE 178 PLANES GROUNDED AT LAX FOLLOWING THE TERRORIST ATTACKS. WHEN THE AIRPORT WILL REOPEN, THOUGH, IS STILL NOT CLEAR.

ONE THING THAT DOES SEEM TO BE CLEAR FOR LOS ANGELES, IT HAS EMERGED FROM TUESDAY'S DAY OF FEAR AND UNCERTAINTY IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE, WITH A 28-YEAR-OLD ACTING MAYOR AT THE CONTROLS.

ALEX PADILLA>> MANY OF US MADE OUR WAY IMMEDIATELY TO CITY HALL AND RECEIVED BRIEFINGS FROM OUR EMERGENCY OPERATIONS BOARD, OUR EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS DEPARTMENT, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, AND REALLY GOT A HANDLE ON THE SITUATION.

JIM>> CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT, ALEX PADILLA, IS STANDING IN FOR MAYOR JIM HAHN, WHO REMAINS IN WASHINGTON, D.C. ON CITY BUSINESS. SO THE CITY HAS FOUND ITSELF RUN BY AN ACTING MAYOR WHO'S BELIEVED TO BE THE THIRD YOUNGEST PERSON EVER ELECTED TO CITY OFFICE HERE IN LOS ANGELES, A MAN WHO'S ONLY HELD HIS POSITION AS CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT A LITTLE OVER TWO MONTHS.

PADILLA SAYS HE SPENT MUCH OF HIS TIME IN THE EMERGENCY OPERATIONS CENTER BELOW CITY HALL, GETTING ONLY TWO HOURS OF SLEEP TUESDAY NIGHT. BUT HE'S ALSO LOGGED A LOT OF FACE TIME BEFORE THE PUBLIC, GIVING NEWS INTERVIEWS IN BOTH ENGLISH AND SPANISH, OR APPEARING AT INTERFAITH SERVICES LIKE THIS ONE AT THE ISLAMIC CENTER.

ALEX PADILLA>> PRETTY MUCH THE GATHERING HERE RIGHT NOW IS ABOUT OUR HEARTS AND OUR MINDS COMING TOGETHER AS A PEOPLE AND AS A SOCIETY.

JIM>> PADILLA, WHO SUPPORTED HAHN IN THE SPRING ELECTION, SAYS HE'S SPOKEN FREQUENTLY TO THE MAYOR OVER THE PHONE DURING THE PAST FEW DAYS AND HE DOWNPLAYS HIS OWN PERFORMANCE AS ACTING MAYOR.

ALEX PADILLA>> I WOULDN'T GIVE MYSELF A LETTER GRADE. WHAT I WILL DO IS GIVE AN A-PLUS TO THE CITY DEPARTMENTS AND THE CITY PERSONNEL STARTING WITH THE EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS DEPARTMENT, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND MANY OTHERS WHO HAVE REALLY DONE A GREAT JOB IN RESPONDING TO THIS SITUATION.

JIM>> OF COURSE, SIMPLE GOOD FORTUNE MAY ALSO HAVE DONE A LOT TO PROTECT THE CITY OF ANGELS, REGARDLESS OF WHO'S BEEN IN THE MAYOR'S CHAIR.

JESS>> JIM HILL JOINS US NOW. SOME FAIRLY SEVERE RESTRICTIONS. ARE THESE JUST TEMPORARY DURING THE CRISIS?

JIM>> WELL, I IMAGINE THAT SOME OF THESE ARE GOING TO BE EASED. I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THE PARKING LOT, THE LARGE STRUCTURE, WILL BE OFF-LIMITS FOREVER.

VAL>> THE ONE THAT'S RIGHT INSIDE THE TERMINAL?

JIM>> EXACTLY. SO I WOULD IMAGINE SOME OF THESE ARE GOING TO BE TEMPORARY UNTIL A PERMANENT SOLUTION CAN BE FOUND. BUT SOME OF THESE RESTRICTIONS, ESPECIALLY SOME OF THE ONES THEY'RE NOT DIVULGING, THE ONES THEY'RE KEEPING SECRET AND SO FORTH, I THINK THIS IS THE WAY IT'S GOING TO BE. THERE WILL BE SECURITY PROCEDURES THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT WILL BE SIMPLY PART OF TRAVEL FROM HERE ON OUT.

JESS>> BUT CURBSIDE CHECK-IN?

VAL>> THAT'S THE ONE THAT STRUCK ME. AND NO CURBSIDE DROP-OFF OR PICK-UP?

JIM>> THAT'S RIGHT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT USING SHUTTLES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL BUT BANNING PRIVATE VEHICLES FROM ACCESS TO THE AIRPORT AS TRADITIONALLY HAS BEEN POSSIBLE. SO IT'S A BIG MOVE. IT REALLY IS A BIG MOVE.

VAL>> CAN YOU SAY THAT, AS FAR AS THE CITY IS CONCERNED, AND ALEX PADILLA, I THINK, HAS PERFORMED VERY, VERY NICELY, ARE WE SORT OF OUT OF THE WOODS? HAVE THINGS CALMED DOWN IN TERMS OF ANY IMMEDIATE THREATS OR ANY TIGHT SECURITY CITYWIDE? WHAT WAS YOUR SENSE OF THINGS?

JIM>> IT APPEARS TO BE THE CASE. PADILLA, YOU'RE RIGHT, PERFORMED HIS DUTIES VERY WELL, EVEN THOUGH HE'S TAKING KIND OF A LOW-PROFILE APPROACH TO TAKING CREDIT ON THAT. BUT IT WOULD APPEAR THAT LOS ANGELES CERTAINLY DODGED THE BULLET. FATE HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THAT. THE ATTACKS WEREN'T AIMED AT LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> BUT, IN THE PAST, ATTACKS HAVE BEEN AIMED AT LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> THEY HAVE.

JIM>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

JESS>> AND AT LAX IN PARTICULAR.

JIM>> THAT'S RIGHT. SO WE REMEMBER THAT VERY WELL. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW THE CITY OPERATIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO FUNCTION, BASED ON PAST EXPERIENCE, PAST REALITIES, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THEY DID JUST WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO, THAT THEY PASSED THE TEST, THEY WERE PREPARED, THEY WERE READY, THEY DOTTED THEIR I'S AND CROSSED THEIR T'S AND WERE READY TO GO AND DID VERY WELL IN THAT REGARD.

ANOTHER POINT WE MIGHT BRING OUT IS THAT, ALTHOUGH THE CHARTER DOES SAY THAT ALEX PADILLA IS IN FACT THE ONE WHO IS RUNNING THE CITY NOW, HE IS THE ACTING MAYOR, HE SHARES PHILOSOPHICALLY THE VIEWS OF JIM HAHN AND HAS BEEN IN TOUCH WITH HIM, SO IT HAS BEEN A GROUP EFFORT.

VAL>> JIM, THANK YOU.

JESS>> THANKS, JIM.

THE OTHER THING MORE DIFFICULT THAN TRACKING DOWN TERRORISTS, WE'RE TOLD, IS TRYING TO PREDICT HOW AND WHERE THEY MIGHT STRIKE AGAIN.

VAL>> WE, HOWEVER, DID MANAGE TO TRACK DOWN ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S TOP EXPERTS ON TERRORISM, USC PROFESSOR RICHARD DEKMEJIAN. WE ASKED HIM, AMONG OTHER THINGS, WHAT AMERICANS CAN EXPECT NEXT.

JESS>> DR. DEKMEJIAN, LAST YEAR YOU PRODUCED A SIX-HOUR DOCUMENTARY CALLED "TERRORISM IN THE SHADOWS". IT'S NO LONGER IN THE SHADOWS.

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> YES. ACTUALLY, THAT WAS ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO FOR THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL. NO, WE EXPECTED IT TO COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS AND IT HAS.

VAL>> IS IT INEVITABLE THAT WE BECAME A TARGET? WAS IT JUST A MATTER OF TIME THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS HIT?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> YES. ACTUALLY, WE'VE BEEN WARNING, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS HAPPENING MUCH EARLIER. WHEN THE 1993 FEBRUARY ATTACK CAME ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THAT WAS THE OPENING SHOT. AND THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR IT. WE ARE THE SUPER POWER, AFTER ALL, AND WE DO HAVE A FOREIGN POLICY THAT VERY OFTEN DOESN'T SIT IN WELL WITH SOME PARTS OF THE GLOBAL VILLAGE AND WE HAVE A RESPONSE TO IT.

JESS>> AND OUR FOREIGN POLICY IS UNLIKELY TO CHANGE. WHAT CAN WE EXPECT NEXT?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, MORE TROUBLE. THE DIALECTIC OF ATTACK AND COUNTER-ATTACK WHICH HAS BEEN GOING ON IN WORLD HISTORY AND, OF COURSE, IN THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT WILL NEVER STOP UNLESS AT SOME POINT PEOPLE SAY LET'S LOOK AND SEE WHAT OUR DIFFERENCES ARE AND SEE IF WE CAN BRIDGE THEM.

VAL>> SO THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY SOLVE THIS IS NOT TO WIPE THEM OUT MILITARILY, BUT TO SOLVE THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM? THE DIFFERENCES?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> THAT'S CORRECT. WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO WIPE OUT BIN LADEN AND HIS PARTICULAR GROUPING IN AFGHANISTAN, BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE ISLAMIC WORLD WHO BELIEVE IN HIS IDEOLOGY. NOW THIS IS AN EXTREMIST IDEOLOGY, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN IT, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

JESS>> SHOULD OUR FOCUS BE ON FERRETING OUT, IDENTIFYING AND PUNISHING THOSE INVOLVED IN THE NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TERRORIST ACTS OR SHOULD WE REALLY BE FOCUSING ON TRYING TO ELIMINATE THE CULTURE OF TERRORISM OR IS THAT POSSIBLE?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> AS THE FIRST STEP, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT WE SHOULD BE PUNISHING THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE. THAT IS INESCAPABLE. THAT IS NATURAL. ALTHOUGH THE TARGET HAS TO BE CLEARLY SELECTED, AUTHORSHIP HAS TO BE ESTABLISHED AND THERE SHOULD NOT BE, OR MINIMIZED, COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

JESS>> WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT PUNISHING HOST GOVERNMENTS, THEN, WHO HAVE SHELTERED TERRORISTS?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, IF THAT HOST GOVERNMENT IS THE TALABAN, THEN ONE MIGHT CONSIDER THAT. BUT ONCE YOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THERE COULD VERY WELL BE A RESPONSE. THAT'S NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR FOREIGN POLICY WITH RESPECT TO THE ISLAMIC COUNTRIES AND, IN THE LONG-TERM, DEAL WITH THE OUTSTANDING PROBLEMS.

VAL>> I'D LIKE TO GO BACK. YOU SAID THAT THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING. IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME. WHAT CAN WE EXPECT IN THE FUTURE? WILL THEY NECESSARILY USE AN AIRPLANE AS A WEAPON? MIGHT THEY USE GERM WARFARE? MIGHT THEY USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS? WHAT ELSE IS IN THEIR ARSENAL THAT WE MIGHT SEE?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT NEXT. OUR EXPECTATION -- MANY OF US EXPECTED THAT FUTURE TERRORISM ATTACKS, NOT SIMPLY FROM OSAMA BIN LADEN, BUT ALL KINDS OF OTHER ATTACKS OF TERRORISTS THAT WE'VE HAD AROUND THE WORLD, WOULD BE OF A BIOLOGICAL, FISSIONABLE MATERIALS OR CHEMICAL TYPE, WHICH WOULD BE MUCH WORSE THAN THIS, BY THE WAY. THERE'S NO REAL DEFENSE TOWARD THAT KIND, OR LIMITED DEFENSE. 

WHAT WE DID NOT EXPECT, WHAT I DID NOT EXPECT, WAS THE MAKING OF TWO OLD TECHNIQUES OF TERRORISM: THE AIRPLANE HIJACKING TECHNIQUE FROM THE 1960'S AND 70'S AND THE TRUCK BOMBING TECHNIQUE FROM THE 1980'S AND 90'S. THOSE TWO THINGS WERE PUT TOGETHER AND THEY SURPRISED EVERYBODY IN THIS SCHOLARLY OR INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.

JESS>> IF WE WONDER WHERE TERRORISTS MIGHT GET HOLD OF BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS, WE HAVE TO LOOK NO FURTHER PERHAPS THAN SADDAM HUSSEIN AND IRAQ?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, THAT'S ONE SOURCE. BUT ONE HAS TO REMEMBER THAT, WHEN IT COMES TO CHEMICAL WEAPONS, THEY'RE NOT REALLY HIGH-TECH. JAPAN PRODUCED IT ONLY IN 1995.

VAL>> BUT THIS IS FRIGHTENING. IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S ACTUALLY HARDER TO GUARD AGAINST BIOLOGICAL WARFARE, I MEAN, THAT LEAVES US EVEN MORE VULNERABLE THAN WE --

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> -- OH, OF COURSE. TERROR IS GLOBALIZED AS EVERYTHING ELSE ON THIS EARTH. WE'VE SEEN THE GLOBALIZATION OF TERROR ONLY YESTERDAY, ONE FORM OF IT. BUT IF THIS WAS BACTERIOLOGICAL OR BIOCHEMICAL, GAS OR NUCLEAR -- NOT THE BOMB, BUT FISSIONABLE MATERIAL -- IT WOULD BE FAR MORE DEVASTATING. THIS IS WHY CONFLICTS LIKE THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH LAND AND BORDERS AND SO ON, MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LIVE TOGETHER ON THIS EARTH FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TO HERE IS FOR THEM TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THEIR HUMANITY AND TALK OUT AND RESOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS.

JESS>> AND TERRORISM WILL NOT END UNTIL WE DO THAT?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMAJIAN>> EXACTLY. AND IT HAS TO BE DONE WORLDWIDE.

VAL>> SO WHEN I HEAR YOU SPEAK LIKE THIS, IT MAKES THE NEW FAA SECURITY REGULATIONS AT THE AIRPORT LOOK ALMOST NECESSARY BUT SILLY OR --

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> -- WELL, NOT SILLY. IN AN IMMEDIATE SENSE, ALL OF THAT IS VERY NECESSARY. I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T BEEN TAKING THOSE THINGS SERIOUSLY, OF COURSE. WE KNOW THAT. EVERY TIME WE FLY, I CAN SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING. BUT ALL OF THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE DONE, BUT THESE ARE IMMEDIATE RESPONSES. IN TERMS OF THE LONG-RANGE, WE NEED TO LOOK INSIDE US AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR FOREIGN POLICY. IT HAS TO BE A FOREIGN POLICY OF ENGAGEMENT WITH AREAS WHICH ARE HAVING TROUBLE, ESPECIALLY THE MIDDLE EAST IN THIS CASE, AS WELL AS AFGHANISTAN ITSELF.

VAL>> RICHARD DEKMEJIAN, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE FROM USC, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> MY PLEASURE.

VAL>> THE DEATH TOLL FROM YESTERDAY'S TERRORIST ATTACKS COULD EASILY SOAR INTO THE THOUSANDS, BUT SOMETIMES THE VICTIMS DON'T ALWAYS SHOW UP ON A CASUALTY LIST.

JESS>> EVEN HERE, A CONTINENT AWAY, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE EMOTIONAL CASUALTIES, PEOPLE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CALLING CRISIS COUNSELORS TO HELP THEM COPE WITH THE FRIGHTENING IMAGES THEY'VE SEEN ON TELEVISION. BUT IF IT'S DIFFICULT FOR ADULTS, IMAGINE WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR CHILDREN TO SEE THOSE PICTURES. TONIGHT GAY YEE TAKES US TO ONE LOCAL SCHOOL IN WHICH YOUNGSTERS ARE TRYING TO COPE.

GAY>> WE'VE SEEN THESE IMAGES PERHAPS HUNDREDS OF TIMES OVER THE LAST 48 HOURS.

RACHEL HOWARD>> I HEARD MY DAD SAYING, "OH, MY GOD, OH, MY GOD." I RAN INTO THE ROOM AND I SAW THE PLANES GOING INTO THE BUILDINGS AND IT SAID WORLD TRADE CENTER ON THE BOTTOM AND I WAS SHOCKED.

DAVID ALPERT>> I DO FEEL ANGRY BECAUSE I JUST DON'T SEE HOW PEOPLE CAN HAVE SO MUCH HATE IN THEM TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

GAY>> THE FACT IS, THESE EVENTS ARE DIFFICULT FOR EVEN ADULTS TO ACCEPT, SO HOW CAN WE HELP OUR CHILDREN TO?

RABBI HAROLD SCHULWEIS>> HOW ARE YOU?

GAY>> HAROLD SCHULWEIS IS SENIOR RABBI AT VALLEY BETH SHALOM IN ENCINO. 

RABBI HAROLD SCHULWEIS>> HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING TV? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU SEE?

GAY>> FOR THE PAST TWO DAYS, THE RABBI HAS BEEN GOING FROM CLASSROOM TO CLASSROOM AT THE DAY SCHOOL TALKING TO STUDENTS ABOUT WHAT THEY WITNESSED ON TV.

RABBI HAROLD SCHULWEIS>> HOW DID YOU FEEL?

GAY>> THE RABBI BELIEVES TO NOT HAVE THIS DISCUSSION WOULD BE A GREAT DISSERVICE. HOW ELSE CAN YOUNGSTERS BEGIN ADDRESSING THEIR FEARS?

RABBI HAROLD SCHULWEIS>> IF IT HAPPENED TO NEW YORK AND THEN IN WASHINGTON, WHY NOT LOS ANGELES? SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TRY TO DO IS TO MAKE THEM FEEL SAFE. THEY FEEL SAFE NOT BY REMAINING AT HOME AND WATCHING TELEVISION WITHOUT ANY KIND OF DISCUSSION, BUT BY BRINGING THEM TOGETHER.

GAY>> HE SAYS THE STUDENTS HAVE BEEN FORCED TO REALIZE THE WORLD IS A GLOBAL VILLAGE NOW.

RABBI HAROLD SCHULWEIS>> WE BEGIN TO RECOGNIZE A GREAT TRUTH. WE'RE LIVING IN A GLOBAL VILLAGE. WHAT HAPPENS IN AFGHANISTAN AFFECTS US HERE. WHAT HAPPENS IN NORTHERN IRELAND AFFECTS US HERE. SO YOU CAN'T ISOLATE YOURSELF AND THAT, I THINK, IS A VERY IMPORTANT LESSON.

GAY>> EYES HAVE OPENED AND VERY YOUNG ONES AT THAT.

JOEY SCHECHTER>> THE UNITED STATES IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST COUNTRIES AND IT COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS FROM HAPPENING.

GAY>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY COULD HAVE DONE?

JOEY SCHECHTER>> I THINK THEY COULD HAVE HAD, LIKE IN ISRAEL ON THEIR AIRLINES, THEY HAVE A SECURITY GUARD ON EVERY AIRPLANE AND IN THE UNITED STATES, THEY DO NOT HAVE THAT.

GAY>> SECURITY IS HIGHER IN ISRAEL. EVEN AT THE DAY SCHOOL, THERE ARE PRECAUTIONS AND SECURITY GUARDS. THE STUDENTS SENSE THEY WILL HAVE TO MAKE CHANGES IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES AS WELL.

RACHEL HOWARD>> I WILL BE MORE AWARE OF PEOPLE AND I'LL BE MORE AWARE OF STRANGERS AND I'LL BE MORE AWARE OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE WORLD. I WON'T FEEL THE SAME, BUT I'LL FEEL LIKE I KNOW WHAT THIS IS. I KNOW IT HAPPENS SOMETIMES, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T WANT IT TO.

GAY>> THE ATTACK HAPPENED A WEEK BEFORE ROSH HASHANAH, AN IMPORTANT JEWISH HOLIDAY, IN WHICH A RAMS HORN CALLED THE SHOFAR IS BLOWN.

RABBI HAROLD SCHULWEIS>> AND IT'S A SOUND OF A CRY FOR UNDERSTANDING THE WORLD AND IT ALSO HAS WITHIN IT THE IDEA OF A BETTER FUTURE.

GAY>> THE RABBI SAYS, LIKE THIS SHOFAR, THIS IS A WAKE-UP CALL FOR ADULTS AND CHILDREN. WE'RE EXPERIENCING A LOSS OF INNOCENCE, BUT ALSO A DOSE OF REALITY.

RABBI HAROLD SCHULWEIS>> I THINK THIS IS A WAKING UP, BUT I DON'T LOOK AT THAT PESSIMISTICALLY. I LOOK AT IT AS A SIGN OF MATURATION, MORAL MATURATION.

GAY>> AND THE KIDS? WHAT WILL THEY DO WITH THEIR NEW-FOUND MORAL MATURITY?

DAVID ALPERT>> I GUESS I'LL SPEND SOME TIME ON IT EACH DAY THINKING ABOUT IT. I'M NOT SURE IF I'M ALLOWED TO GIVE BLOOD OR NOT, BUT IF I AM, I'LL TRY. I JUST KIND OF HOPE FOR THE BEST OUT OF THIS VERY CLOUDY DAY.

GAY>> IN ENCINO, I'M GAY YEE FOR LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> SO WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR YOUNGSTERS ABOUT THE TERRORIST ATTACKS? LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT, ROY ROMER, HAS SOME IDEAS. WITH HIM IS AN EXPERT IN CHILD PSYCHIATRY, DR. JOSEPH HARASZTI. YOU TWO HAVE HAD TO FACE THIS QUESTION.

GOVERNOR ROMER, WHAT ARE STUDENTS IN THE LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT BEING TOLD ABOUT THIS CRISIS?

ROY ROMER>> WELL, FIRST -- THE FIRST THING WE TOLD THEM, WE WANT THEM IN SCHOOL. WE DID NOT WANT TO CLOSE DOWN BECAUSE --

JESS>> -- MANY SCHOOLS DID.

ROY ROMER>> I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE CHILD BE IN THE PLACE HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH AND NOT LEFT AT HOME TO STARE AT TELEVISION. PSYCHOLOGICALLY, THAT CAN BE VERY DAMAGING TO YOUNG CHILDREN TO JUST HAVE THAT REPEATED EXPERIENCE. WE LEARNED THAT OUT OF OKLAHOMA. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. WE WANTED TO --

VAL>> -- AND ATTENDANCE WAS HIGH TODAY?

ROY ROMER>> YES, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE TO CLOSE DOWN AND WE SAID NO, WE ARE STAYING IN SCHOOL. THE SECOND THING WAS, WE ENCOURAGED THE TEACHERS AND STUDENTS TO TALK ABOUT IT. IF YOU HAVE THIS EVENT THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ASSIMILATE, YOU CAN'T BE STOVED UP. YOU NEED TO TALK TO YOUR FELLOW STUDENTS, YOU NEED TO TALK TO YOUR PARENTS, YOU NEED TO TALK TO TEACHERS AND BEGIN TO GET IT OUT ON THE TABLE AND BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT IT.

BUT THE MAIN MESSAGE I HAD TO ALL OF THE PERSONNEL IN THIS DISTRICT, 75,000, WAS THAT YOU'RE A ROLE MODEL. ALL THESE YOUNGSTERS ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT YOU AND SAYING I DON'T KNOW HOW TO REACT TO THAT. LET ME WATCH HOW YOU ARE. YOU'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH THE FACTS. YOU'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH THE TRUTH BECAUSE THIS IS A WORLD THEY'VE GOT TO LEARN TO LIVE IN. BUT YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT AT WHAT AGE LEVEL YOU EXPOSE THEM TO WHAT KIND OF TRUTH. WE'VE BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF TIME ON THIS IN THE LAST TWO DAYS.

VAL>> DR. HARASZTI, WHAT CAN PARENTS DO AND WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES IN APPROACHES IF YOUR CHILD IS OF DIFFERENT AGES?

JOSEPH HARASZTI>> WELL, AS THE GOVERNOR POINTED OUT, THE AGE LEVEL MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE. WITH YOUNGER CHILDREN, PERHAPS IF THE CHILD IS UNDER GRADE SCHOOL LEVEL, I WOULD REALLY STRONGLY ENCOURAGE PARENTS TO TRY TO KEEP THEIR TV-WATCHING TO A MINIMUM BECAUSE A YOUNG CHILD WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PROCESS THIS INFORMATION.

VAL>> LIKE AGE WHAT?

JOSEPH HARASZTI>> I WOULD SAY KINDERGARTEN AND BELOW. BUT FOR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL HEAR IT FROM THEIR CLASSMATES, THEY'LL SEE THE REACTION OF THE OLDER STUDENTS, SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THAT. SO WHAT PARENTS NEED TO DO IS TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH THEIR CHILDREN ON THEIR LEVEL RATHER THAN JUST COMPULSIVELY EXPLAIN TO THEM, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. TALK TO YOUR CHILD. ASK THEM, OKAY, WHAT DID YOU SEE? EXACTLY AS THE GOVERNOR IS DOING IN SCHOOL. WHAT DID YOU SEE? HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT IT?

VAL>> SO ASKING THE CHILD QUESTIONS IS KEY?

JOSEPH HARASZTI>> EXACTLY, EXACTLY. ASK THE CHILD QUESTIONS AND THEN TRY TO MAINTAIN A CALM DEMEANOR ABOUT YOURSELF BECAUSE, AGAIN, PARENTS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ROLE MODELS AS ARE THE TEACHERS, SO THEY HAVE TO PRESENT THAT CALM. OF COURSE, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ALL OF US ADULTS TO FEEL CALM WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS HAPPENING. THIS REALLY HAS AFFECTED OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR EQUILIBRIUM. OUR LIVES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AFTER SEPTEMBER 11 OF 2001. THIS DAY WILL LIVE IN INFAMY AND IT WILL AFFECT OUR LIVES. AND THE LOSS OF LIVES WILL PROBABLY BE GREATER THAN THE COMBINED EFFECTS OF PEARL HARBOR, IWO JIMA AND D-DAY.

JESS>> AT LAS ENCINAS IN PASADENA, WOULD YOU EXPECT THAT YOU WOULD NOW BE SEEING SOME CHILDREN WHO ARE REALLY SORT OF TIPPED OVER THE EDGE BY WHAT THEY'RE SEEING ON TELEVISION?

JOSEPH HARASZTI>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN ACTIVE CHILD AND ADOLESCENT PROGRAM AT LAS ENCINAS. WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS THAT THEY ARE REALLY NO DIFFERENT FROM THE SCHOOL CHILDREN THAT THE GOVERNOR DESCRIBES. THEY SEE THE TELEVISION, THEY HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT IT AND WE ALSO TALK TO THEM IN OUR VARIOUS GROUP SESSIONS, BUT IT DOESN'T BECOME THE MOST IMPORTANT THING DURING THE DAY. ESSENTIALLY, WE DEAL WITH IT AND THEN WE MOVE ON. WE DEAL WITH THE ROUTINE.

AS THE GOVERNOR SAID, IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU NOT BREAK THAT ROUTINE, THAT WE KEEP THE SCHOOLS OPEN, THAT WE MAINTAIN THE CHILD'S ROUTINE. IF THE CHILD IS FRIGHTENED, ONE OF THE WAYS THAT THEY MIGHT SHOW THIS IS BY REGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR. THEY MIGHT BECOME MORE CLINGING TO THE PARENTS, THEY MAY HAVE TROUBLE SLEEPING IN THEIR ROOMS AND THEY MAY WANT THE LIGHTS ON, SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE PARENTS TO BE TUNED IN TO THIS.

VAL>> SHOULD PARENTS ACCOMMODATE THAT OR SAY NO, NO, OR SHOULD THEY BE UNDERSTANDING AND GO AHEAD AND PAMPER THEM IN A SENSE?

JOSEPH HARASZTI>> YES, PARENTS SHOULD REALIZE THAT THE CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THIS AND, YES, THEY SHOULD NOT JUST SAY, OKAY, A STIFF UPPER LIP. I MEAN, A CHILD IS NOT ABLE TO DO THAT. SO, YES, THEY SHOULD RESPOND TO THE CHILD.

JESS>> GOVERNOR ROMER, YOU DON'T THINK CHILDREN SHOULD BE SHIELDED FROM THIS, DO YOU?

ROY ROMER>> NO, NO, OBVIOUSLY. I THINK THE DOCTOR'S COMMENT ABOUT KINDERGARTEN AND YOUNGER, YOU HAVE A RESPONSE THAT'S CHARACTERISTIC OF THAT. BUT BEYOND THAT, THEY'RE GOING TO LEARN ABOUT IT. THEY NEED TO LEARN ABOUT IT. THIS IS A HISTORIC EVENT IN OUR LIVES. AS THE DAYS UNFOLD, THE REST OF THIS WEEK AND NEXT WEEK AND THEY BEGIN TO TAKE THE RUBBLE APART, THERE'S GOING TO BE A GRUESOME AND TRAGIC EXPOSURE OF THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF THIS ATTACK. I MEAN, WE THINK GETTYSBURG WAS A HISTORIC EVENT. THINK ABOUT THIS IN TERMS OF OUR PERIOD OF HISTORY. IT IS EQUIVALENT TO THAT.

JESS>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUNG CHILDREN, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OLDER CHILDREN? WHAT ABOUT THE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS?

ROY ROMER>> YOU KNOW, LOOK, A SCHOOL'S A LEARNING COMMUNITY AND THIS IS A TRAGEDY, BUT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT AND THERE'S LEARNING TO BE OBTAINED HERE. THIS IS A CONFLICT BETWEEN FREEDOM AND SAFETY AND, AS WE RESPOND TO THIS TRAGEDY, WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES A DEMOCRACY DO WHEN YOU HAVE THIS VIOLENCE AND HOW DO YOU CONTAIN IT AND HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN YOUR FREEDOM? WHEN WE FIRST GO BACK DOWN TO LAX, TO THE AIRPORT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT BECAUSE OUR FREEDOM IS GOING TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY CURTAILED, BUT YET OUR SAFETY WILL BE ENHANCED. NOW THESE YOUNGSTERS NEED TO HAVE THAT DILEMMA IN FRONT OF THEM. 

SECONDLY, THEY NEED TO SAY, WHAT DOES A DEMOCRACY DO? HOW DO YOU DEFEND AGAINST TERRORISM? WE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT DEFENDING AGAINST MISSILE ATTACK AND ALL THAT. THIRD, WE HAVE DISCOVERED ONE TERRIBLE NEW WEAPON IS AN AIRPLANE FULL OF GAS. THINK ABOUT EVERYBODY IN A HIGH-RISE BUILDING NOW, OVER X-STORIES. THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, WAIT A MINUTE. IF THAT IS ATTACKED BY AN AIRPLANE FULL OF GAS, THIS BUILDING HAS ONLY A FORTY-MINUTE LIFE SPAN BEFORE IT COLLAPSES. WE NOW KNOW THAT. WHAT DO WE DO? ONE, IN THE WAY WE BUILD BUILDINGS? TWO, IN THE WAY WE OCCUPY THEM ON THOSE TOP FLOORS? ECONOMICALLY, THERE IS SOME FALLOUT FROM THIS WHICH -- I JUST WANT TO SAY, THIS IS A VERY LARGE EVENT. OUR SCHOOL CHILDREN OUGHT TO BE THINKING ABOUT THAT, PARTICULARLY IN HIGH SCHOOL.

VAL>> DR. HARASZTI, IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR MESSAGE IN TERMS OF CONTENT THAT YOU THINK WOULD BE GOOD FOR PARENTS TO PASS ON THEIR CHILDREN? IT'S A DANGEROUS WORLD? IT'S A JUST WORLD? IT'S AN UNPREDICTABLE WORLD? IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR MESSAGE YOU MIGHT SUGGEST OR ADVISE PARENTS TO TRY TO CONVEY?

JOSEPH HARASZTI>> WELL, I THINK THE MAIN THING IS THAT WE CANNOT MAINTAIN OUR SENSE OF DENIAL. I MEAN, IN A SENSE, OUR WHOLE COUNTRY HAS BEEN IN DENIAL ABOUT THE FACT THAT TERRORISM CAN HAPPEN ON OUR SOIL. WE THOUGHT THAT THIS COULD NOT HAPPEN HERE. NOT SINCE THE CIVIL WAR HAS SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENED HERE. SO FIRST OF ALL, LET'S BREAK THROUGH OUR DENIAL. WE MUST ADMIT THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN AND HAS HAPPENED AND MIGHT HAPPEN AGAIN. WE HAVE TO BE EVER VIGILANT AND, AS THE GOVERNOR SAYS, THIS WILL CURTAIL SOME OF OUR INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES, WHICH IS VERY HARD TO GIVE UP.

VAL>> BUT HOW ABOUT MAKING CHILDREN FEEL SAFE?

JESS>> THAT SEEMS A PATTERN FOR DESTROYING THEIR SECURITY, SENSE OF SECURITY.

ROY ROMER>> WELL, LET ME GET BACK IN HERE. YOU KNOW, LOOK, CHILDREN HAVE TO DEAL WITH CONFLICT ON THE SCHOOLYARD AND THEY'VE GOT TO LEARN TO RESOLVE THAT. CONFLICT RESOLUTION IS SOMETHING THEY LEARN EVERY DAY. THEY NEED TO FOLLOW THIS SPECTRUM OUT. THIS IS CONFLICT AND IT NEEDS RESOLUTION. THIS IS GLOBAL. NOW THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE FIGHT ON THE SCHOOLYARD AND WHAT SOMEBODY IN A TERRIBLE WAY USES TERRORISM TO "RIGHT WHAT THEY FEEL IS A WRONG". THINK ABOUT IT. THERE IS A CONTINUUM AND WE NEED TO HAVE THESE YOUNGSTERS BEGIN TO THINK WITH US ADULTS HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH THAT.

VAL>> THE CORE CONFLICT. GOVERNOR ROY ROMER, SUPERINTENDENT OF L.A. PUBLIC SCHOOLS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN. DR. JOE HARASZTI WITH THE LAS ENCINAS PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR THOUGHTS. WE DO APPRECIATE IT.

JESS>> IT'S AT TIMES LIKE THESE WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAS TO FIND JUST THE RIGHT WORDS. TODAY PRESIDENT BUSH RESORTED TO SOME TOUGH TALK WHEN IT CAME TO THE TERRORISTS.

PRESIDENT BUSH>> THE DELIBERATE AND DEADLY ATTACKS WHICH WERE CARRIED OUT YESTERDAY AGAINST OUR COUNTRY WERE MORE THAN ACTS OF TERROR. THEY WERE ACTS OF WAR. THIS WILL REQUIRE OUR COUNTRY TO UNITE IN STEADFAST DETERMINATION AND RESOLVE. FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY ARE UNDER ATTACK. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW WE'RE FACING A DIFFERENT ENEMY THAN WE HAVE EVER FACED.

THIS ENEMY HIDES IN SHADOWS AND HAS NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE. THIS IS AN ENEMY WHO PREYS ON INNOCENT AND UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE, THEN RUNS FOR COVER, BUT IT WON'T BE ABLE TO RUN FOR COVER FOREVER. THIS IS AN ENEMY THAT TRIES TO HIDE, BUT IT WON'T BE ABLE TO HIDE FOREVER. THIS IS AN ENEMY THAT THINKS ITS HARBORS ARE SAFE, BUT THEY WON'T BE SAFE FOREVER.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS OUR REGULAR COMMENTATOR AND L.A. TIMES COLUMNIST, PATT MORRISON.

VAL>> ALSO, WE HAVE CONGRESSMAN CHRISTOPHER COX. HE'S ON THE PHONE WITH US NOW. HE IS A REPUBLICAN MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FROM ORANGE COUNTY. HE JOINS US LIVE BY TELEPHONE FROM WASHINGTON, D.C. THANK YOU, CONGRESSMAN COX, FOR BEING WITH US.
CHRISTOPHER COX>> HELLO.

VAL>> HELLO.

PATT>> HI, CONGRESSMAN. PATT MORRISON HERE. 

CHRISTOPHER COX>> HELLO, PATT.

PATT>> YOUR COLLEAGUE IN ORANGE COUNTY, CONGRESSMAN DANA ROHRABACHER, HAS REFERRED TO THE CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY IN LETTING THIS HAPPEN AND NOT SEEING THAT IT WAS COMING. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS ASSESSMENT?

CHRISTOPHER COX>> I THINK THERE WILL BE A GREAT DEAL OF SELF-EXAMINATION, A VIRTUAL AUTOPSY OF WHAT HAPPENED, STARTING WITH EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED AS THESE TERRORISTS WERE ABLE TO BOARD THESE AIRCRAFT, HOW THEY COMMUNICATED WITH EACH OTHER TO GET THAT FAR, HOW OUR ATC RESPONDED, HOW THE MILITARY PERFORMED, HOW OUR TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE PERFORMED, THE WHOLE NINE YARDS.

BUT I WANT VERY RAPIDLY TO ADD TO THAT AND TO CAUTION THAT WE SHOULD NOT GIVE IN TO THE IMPULSE TO BLAME OURSELVES OR TO FOCUS EXTENSIVELY IN THE SHORT-RUN ON SELF-EXAMINATION. I'D RATHER DIRECT ALL OF THAT ENERGY OUTWARD TO THE TASK AT HAND.

PATT>> BUT, CONGRESSMAN, SELF-EXAMINATION MAY BE THE THING THAT COMES TO OUR RESCUE. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THE OTHER CONGRESSMAN REFERRED TO IS THAT WE WERE USING HIGH-TECH WEAPONS TO DEAL WITH WHAT WAS ESSENTIALLY A TIN-CAN-AND-STRING OPERATION. IS THAT NOT IN THE LARGER INTERESTS OF THIS COUNTRY TO SCRUTINIZE WHERE WE MISSED THE BOAT?

CHRISTOPHER COX>> THAT'S RIGHT, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT SOME OF THE CRITICISM IS FOCUSED ON, FOR EXAMPLE, INSUFFICIENT PROPHYLAXIS IN THE COMMERCIAL AIR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM IN AMERICA. I THINK IT MISSES UTTERLY THE POINT. THE POINT IS THAT WE ARE FACING TERRORISTS AND TERRORISTS, BY THE VERY NATURE OF THEIR APPROACH, FOCUS ON OUR SOFT UNDERBELLY. IF WE HAD PERFECT PROPHYLAXIS IN OUR AIR TRAVEL SYSTEM, THEY WOULD SIMPLY FOCUS ON ANOTHER OF THE NEARLY INFINITE TARGETS AVAILABLE TO THEM IN OUR FREE SOCIETY.

SO WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO IS FOCUS, YES, ON HOW WE USE OUR MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE RESOURCES, TO KEEP TRACK OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND TO GO AFTER THEM. BUT I THINK THE REAL POINT IS, ONCE WE KNOW ESSENTIALLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND WHO THEY ARE, WE MUST THEN TAKE THE NEXT STEP AND ROOT THEM OUT BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE HAVE DECLARED WAR ON AMERICA. THE CASUALTIES FIGURES THAT WE'RE NOW GETTING ON OUR TV SCREENS AND RADIOS ARE TELLING US THAT IT MAY WELL BE OVER 20,000 DEAD IN NEW YORK CITY IF THE PORT AUTHORITY IS CORRECT ON THAT. SO, I MEAN, WE'RE ALREADY COMING CLOSE TO FIGURES THAT ECLIPSE THE KOREAN WAR IN ONE DAY.

JESS>> CONGRESSMAN, PATT TALKS ABOUT THE FAILURE OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, BUT DOES THIS NOT ALSO REPRESENT A DISMAL FAILURE OF OUR SECURITY SYSTEM?

CHRISTOPHER COX>> IRONICALLY, AT THE VERY TIME THAT THIS HAPPENED YESTERDAY MORNING BETWEEN 8:00 AND ABOUT 9:30 A.M., I WAS WITH THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE. I WAS IN HIS PRIVATE DINING ROOM ALONG WITH THE DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, DON RUMSFELD AND PAUL WOLFOWITZ, RESPECTIVELY. THE PURPOSE OF THEIR PRESENTATION WAS TO TRY AND WOO CONGRESS AWAY FROM, OR CONVINCE CONGRESS, OF THE IMPORTANCE OF ABANDONING OUR LONG-STANDING "WE MUST BE PREPARED TO FIGHT TWO MAJOR WARS" STRATEGY BECAUSE, THEY SAID, IT OVER-COMMITS CERTAIN KINDS OF RESOURCES TO OCCUPATIONS OF FOREIGN CAPITALS, FOR EXAMPLE, SIMULTANEOUSLY PIAN YANG AND BAGHDAD, WHEREAS WE NEED TO BE PREPARED TO FIGHT TERRORISM AND WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO FIGHT AND PREPARE FOR THE UNEXPECTED.

THEY ARE WORRIED, OF COURSE, ABOUT THESE VERY SAME TERRORISTS, THE ILK OF OSAMA BIN LADEN, ACQUIRING LONG-RANGE WEAPONS TO WHICH THEY CAN AFFIX ANTHRAX BOMBS, CHEMICAL WEAPONS, NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND SO ON. AND WE KNOW BECAUSE WE HAVE PRETTY SOLID INTELLIGENCE THAT A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE ARE ACQUIRING THESE VERY CAPABILITIES. NOW, BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY, EVERYBODY HAS TO BE CONVINCED THAT THEY ARE NUTS ENOUGH TO USE THEM AND THEIR BLACKMAIL THREATS WILL BE ENORMOUSLY CREDIBLE, SO WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A DEFENSE BEFORE THEY GET THERE.

VAL>> CONGRESSMAN, WHAT WAS YOUR RESPONSE TO THE VERY DISTURBING NEWS THAT CAME FROM THE WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN TODAY THAT IT WAS IN FACT THE WHITE HOUSE THAT WAS PERHAPS THE TARGET OF THE PLANE THAT ACTUALLY CRASHED INTO THE PENTAGON?

CHRISTOPHER COX>> WELL, THE HORRIBLY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND EVENTS OF YESTERDAY WOULD BE EQUALLY, THOUGH DIFFERENTLY, HORRIBLE HAD THE WHITE HOUSE BEEN A TARGET INSTEAD OF THE PENTAGON. THE TRUTH IS THAT THESE THINGS ECLIPSE ALL OF OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS WAR IS TAKING PLACE IN OUR CITY STREETS, THAT IT TARGETS INNOCENT MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN. IT'S JUST ALL TOO MUCH TO GRASP.

VAL>> ALSO, I WANTED TO FOLLOW UP, IF IN FACT, SAY, GERM WARFARE OR NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE ANOTHER TACTIC THAT IN A WAY WE HAVE LESS DEFENSE AGAINST THAN WE DO OUR AIRPORTS, YOU SAY WE HAVE TO DEFEND OURSELVES, BUT HOW?

CHRISTOPHER COX>> WELL, I THINK THAT IF YOU TRY TO REORIENT EVERY ASPECT OF CIVIL SOCIETY SO THAT IT IS IMPERVIOUS TO SOMEONE'S ATTEMPT TO DISRUPT IT, THAT YOU'RE BOUND TO FAIL. OUR SOCIETY IS TOO COMPLEX AND, SIMULTANEOUSLY, TOO OPEN. THEREFORE, YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT, HAPPILY AMONG A RATHER SUBSTANTIAL GLOBAL POPULATION, IT IS A RELATIVELY FEW NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO BOTH DESPERATELY HATE AMERICA AND ARE WILLING TO VINDICATE THAT HATE BY MURDERING BOTH US AND THEMSELVES.

VAL>> YES, BUT IT ONLY TAKES ONE. I THINK PATT HAD A QUESTION.

PATT>> CONGRESSMAN, THE LANGUAGE OF PROPORTIONAL RESPONSE IS KIND OF LOST IN THE MIX HERE. WE'VE GOT TO DO IT FIRST AND WE HAVE TO DO IT RIGHT IF IT'S GOING TO BE DONE AT ALL, AND THIS IS THE WORD THAT'S COMING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT. WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE A PROPORTIONAL RESPONSE ONCE WE FIND OUT WHERE THIS RESPONSE OUGHT TO BE DIRECTED? IS IT TOWARD THE STATE THAT HARBORS PEOPLE, AS THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID, AS WELL AS TO THE PERPETRATORS OF THIS?

CHRISTOPHER COX>> WELL, THERE IS SOME VOCABULARY THAT, IT STRIKES ME, BETRAYS A LITTLE BIT OF FUZZY THINKING AND I WOULD PUT PROPORTIONAL RESPONSE IN THAT CATEGORY. LIKEWISE, I WOULD PUT BRINGING THE PERPETRATORS TO JUSTICE IN THAT CATEGORY. WE ARE NOT TALKING, I DON'T BELIEVE, ABOUT CIVIL OR CRIMINAL REMEDIES FOR THIS. WE OUGHTN'T TO SLAP SUBPOENAS ON THESE PEOPLE.

IT'S HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PROPORTIONAL MEANS IN THIS CONTEXT. I MEAN, WHAT COULD BE MORE ALL-OUT WAR THAN WHAT HAS JUST OCCURRED? BY UNDERSTANDING WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY, WHETHER WE WANT TO BE AT WAR OR NOT, SOMEBODY HAS DECLARED WAR ON US. AND BY UNDERSTANDING IT AS WAR, THEN WE WILL HAVE A BETTER FRAME OF MIND, IT SEEMS TO ME. WE WILL UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO DEFEAT OUR ENEMY. WE NEED LITERALLY TO WIPE THEM OUT.

JESS>> TO DO SO, TO PROTECT OURSELVES, TO WHAT EXTENT WILL OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES HAVE TO BE SACRIFICED?

CHRISTOPHER COX>> WELL, I WOULD HOPE NOT ONE WHIT BECAUSE OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT DEVISED OVER A FEW HUNDRED YEARS HAS BEEN MADE EXPRESSLY TO ACCOMMODATE OUR KIND OF IDEAL. IT IS IN FACT THAT BASE, THAT IDEAL, THAT INSPIRES HATE AMONG SOME OF AMERICA'S BITTER ENEMIES. IT IS OUR SYSTEM, OUR CIVILIZATION, OUR DEMOCRACY, OUR FREEDOM, OUR POWER IN THE WORLD IN CONSEQUENCE OF THOSE THINGS, THAT IS MOST DESPISED. SO IT WOULD BE IRONIC IN THE EXTREME IF WE GO TO WAR TO DEFEND THOSE THINGS AND GIVE THEM UP IN THE PROCESS.

VAL>> CONGRESSMAN CHRISTOPHER COX FROM ORANGE COUNTY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH US THIS EVENING. WE DO APPRECIATE IT.

CHRISTOPHER COX>> OF COURSE.

JESS>> HOW POSSIBLE IS IT TO GET INTO A TERRORIST'S MIND AND FIGURE OUT WHAT MAKES HIM TICK?

VAL>> THAT'S THE SPECIALTY OF ONE LOCAL SCHOLAR. TODD SANDLER IS AN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT AT USC. WE'RE TALKING TO HIM BY PHONE AS WELL THIS EVENING. AND WITH US HERE IN THE FLESH IS ANOTHER AUTHORITY ON MIDDLE EAST, PROFESSOR LAURIE BRAND, ALSO OF USC. DR. SANDLER ISN'T WITH US QUITE YET, SO WE'LL PICK UP THE CONVERSATION WITH YOU.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF TODAY'S EVENTS, ESPECIALLY THE NEWS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS ACTUALLY THE TARGET? DOES THIS SURPRISE YOU? DOES IT MAKE SENSE IF WE WERE TO UNDERSTAND TERRORISM?

LAURIE BRAND>> YEAH, I THINK IT DOES MAKE SENSE. I THINK ALL OF US, WHEN WE LEARNED THAT A PLANE HAD GONE DOWN AND HAD NOT HIT A CLEAR SYMBOL KIND OF TARGET --

VAL>> YOU MEAN THE ONE NEAR PITTSBURGH?

LAURIE BRAND>> THE ONE THAT WENT DOWN IN PITTSBURGH, YES -- THAT SOME OTHER TARGET, PRESUMABLY ONE IN OR NEAR WASHINGTON WAS THE REAL TARGET, AND THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE CAPITOL ARE THE TWO THAT OBVIOUSLY CAME UP. SOME PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CAMP DAVID. THAT DIDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE TO ME. I THINK IF THEY'RE GOING TO STRIKE A WORLD TRADE CENTER, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT MAJOR SYMBOLS AND THE WHITE HOUSE AND/OR THE CAPITOL WOULD CERTAINLY BE ON THE SAME LEVEL.

JESS>> DR. SANDLER HAS JOINED US NOW. DR. SANDLER, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU GET INTO A TERRORIST'S MIND. INDEED, YOU HAVE A PRETTY GOOD HISTORY OF PROFILING TERRORISTS. DOES THAT HELP US IN FINDING OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE?

TODD SANDLER>> WELL, I HAVEN'T DONE ANY PROFILING OF TERRORISTS. I STUDY THEIR METHODS AND WHAT SEEMS TO WORK IN TRYING TO THWART THEIR ACTIONS.

JESS>> YOUR DATABASE, THEN, DOES NOT INVOLVE PROFILING?

TODD SANDLER>> NO, IT DOES NOT.

JESS>> DOES IT TELL US HOW TO LOOK FOR TERRORISTS?

TODD SANDLER>> NO, IT DOES NOT.

VAL>> DOES IT HELP IN ANY WAY TO PREDICT WHAT THEY'LL DO NEXT OR WHERE THEY MIGHT STRIKE?

TODD SANDLER>> YES, IT DOES. IT DOES ALLOW US TO FORECAST.

VAL>> IN WHAT WAY?

TODD SANDLER>> IN THE WAY THAT THE NUMBER OF INCIDENTS AND THE TYPES OF INCIDENTS TEND TO FOLLOW A PATTERN. THERE ARE CYCLES TO THEM AND THESE CYCLES CAN ALLOW PEOPLE TO FORECAST. FOR INSTANCE, AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF LULLS, THERE'S INCREASED ACTIVITY AND THE KINDS OF METHODS THAT ARE USED. THEY EACH FOLLOW THEIR OWN UNIQUE CYCLES, FOR INSTANCE, BOMBINGS VERSUS HIJACKINGS, ETC.

PATT>> PROFESSOR, FOR A TERRORIST, HOW WOULD YOU RANK THE SUCCESS OF THIS? WOULD IT BE NOT ONLY IN THE NUMBER OF LIVES LOST IN THE TARGETS HIT, BUT WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE FROM THE UNITED STATES WOULD MOST GRATIFY THE PERPETRATORS OF THIS?

TODD SANDLER>> WELL, I THINK THE GRIEF IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW GRATIFIES THE PERPETRATORS. THE LARGE LOSS OF LIFE GRATIFIES THE PERPETRATORS. THESE PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED. THEY HATE AMERICA AND THEY WANT TO HIT AMERICA AS HARD AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN AND THEY SUCCEEDED YESTERDAY. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY SUCCEEDED.

PATT>> WOULD THE STATE OF WAR THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID VIRTUALLY EXISTS BE SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD TRY TO ELICIT AS WELL?

TODD SANDLER>> I DON'T THINK SO.

JESS>> PROFESSOR BRAND, WHEN WE SAW CERTAIN PEOPLE IN THE PALESTINIAN AREAS CELEBRATING THIS TRAGEDY, IS THAT REFLECTED IN WHAT HE'S SAYING?

LAURIE BRAND>> WELL, I THINK IT'S AGAIN IMPORTANT TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE. THE CELEBRATIONS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN LARGELY LIMITED TO NAVLOS ON THE WEST BANK, WHICH IS IN THE AREAS WHICH ARE STILL, AT LEAST THE LARGER AREA, IS STILL UNDER ISRAELI MILITARY OCCUPATION, AND IN CERTAIN REFUGE CAMPS IN LEBANON. THE LIFE OF PALESTINIANS IN REFUGE CAMPS IN LEBANON HAS BEEN DREADFUL SINCE 1948. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE CITIZENSHIP, THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO OWN PROPERTY, THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK. IT'S DREADFUL, AND THEY'VE ALSO, OVER THE YEARS --

JESS>> -- BUT THEY'RE NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE?

LAURIE BRAND>> TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, THE PALESTINIANS HAVE LIVED IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES IN VARIOUS PARTS OF THE ARAB WORLD AND THEIR EXPERIENCES ARE QUITE DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON WHICH COMMUNITIES THEY'VE GROWN UP IN. THE TREATY IN LEBANON HAS, I THINK WITHOUT QUESTION, SUFFERED THE GREATEST AND MOST CONTINUOUS OR PERIODIC VIOLENCE. AS I SAID YESTERDAY, I MEAN, IT SADDENS ME GREATLY. IT DOESN'T TERRIBLY SURPRISE ME, BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS WAS NOT THE PALESTINIAN POPULATION IN ITS ENTIRETY, THAT THERE WERE SWIFT ANNOUNCEMENT THAT CAME OUT FROM THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL AUTHORITY FROM PRESIDENT ARAFAT, FROM PEOPLE FROM VARIOUS OTHER ORGANIZATIONS IN WHOSE NAME SOMEBODY HAD CLAIMED INITIAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THESE THINGS, DENOUNCING THE ATTACKS.

AGAIN, THE SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THESE INCIDENTS, ONE HAS TO KEEP IN PERSPECTIVE. HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, I MEAN, LOOK AT SOME OF THE THREATS THAT THE ISLAMIC CENTERS HAVE RECEIVED OR OTHER INSTITUTIONS HAVE RECEIVED FROM AMERICANS. THE KIND OF IGNORANCE AND OF ARROGANCE THAT THAT DEMONSTRATES. I MEAN, WE WOULDN'T WANT PEOPLE TO CHARACTERIZE ALL OF THE UNITED STATES BY THOSE KINDS OF PEOPLE. I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO KEEP THAT IN PERSPECTIVE.

VAL>> DR. SANDLER, I WANTED TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID EARLIER. YOU SAID THAT THESE THINGS GO IN CYCLES? ARE YOU SAYING, THEREFORE, THAT THEY'RE SOMEWHAT PREDICTABLE? THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, WE KNOW THAT A DIFFERENT WEAPON MIGHT BE USED NEXT TIME OR MAYBE A DIFFERENT TARGET CITY MIGHT BE FOCUSED ON NEXT TIME?

TODD SANDLER>> WELL, TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS, IF THERE'S GOOD SECURITY TO KEEP A PARTICULAR KIND OF INCIDENT FROM OCCURRING, THEY SUBSTITUTE AND THEY SHIFT AND THEY SHIFT AND ADOPT A DIFFERENT TACTIC. THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE CALCULATING ATTEMPTS IN TRYING TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS.

VAL>> THE IMPLICATION BEING IF SECURITY GOES UP AT AIRPORTS, AIRPORTS WILL PROBABLY NOT BE THE NEXT TARGET?

TODD SANDLER>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

PATT>> PROFESSOR, LET ME ASK YOU TO PROJECT A LITTLE INTO THE FUTURE. THE MODEL FOR THE WARFARE OF THE COLD WAR HAS BEEN YOU BEAT THE TAR OUT OF THE OTHER GUY AND THEN YOU LEND HIM A HAND AND SAY LET US HELP YOU REBUILD. BECOME OUR TRADING PARTNER IN THE WORLD. THAT, OF COURSE, WAS THE MARSHALL PLAN. WE DID SOMETHING OF THAT FOR SOUTH KOREA AFTER THE KOREAN WAR. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THIS MODEL COULD POSSIBLY WORK WITH TERRORISM IN THE WAY THAT THE NEW WORLD AFTER THE COLD WAR IS CONSTITUTED, OR ARE WE LOOKING AT A NEW KIND OF WARFARE AND POST WARFARE ALTOGETHER?

TODD SANDLER>> WELL, WE'RE REALLY NOT LOOKING AT WARFARE IN A SENSE OF A STATE. NOW THERE MAY BE A STATE THAT'S HARBORING THESE PARTICULAR TERRORISTS AND THAT MAY LEAD TO SOME BOMBINGS, ETC. BUT WE'RE TALKING MORE ABOUT INDIVIDUALS. MANY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE STATELESS. THEY FEEL COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THE WORLD AT THIS POINT, SO I DON'T REALLY SEE THE ANALOGY THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO TO WAR WITH A STATE AND THEN REBUILD THEM.

JESS>> PROFESSOR BRAND, HAVEN'T WE REALLY DONE SOME OF THAT IN OUR OFFER OF AID TO THE PALESTINIANS, ALSO TO THE ISRAELIS? CAMP DAVID ACCORDS WERE A REAL EFFORT ON THE PART OF THIS NATION. HAVEN'T WE REALLY GONE THE EXTRA MILE?

LAURIE BRAND>> LET ME JUST SAY THAT WHILE THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE TODAY THAT SUGGESTS THAT ARABS MAY HAVE PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT PALESTINIANS PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS YET. I REALLY WANT US NOT TO RUSH TO JUDGMENT --

VAL>> -- AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION THAT MIGHT BE LOST TO MANY PEOPLE.

LAURIE BRAND>> YEAH, I MEAN, THE ONLY NAMES I'VE SEEN SO FAR AND THE ONLY NATIONALITIES ATTRIBUTED TO PEOPLE SO FAR, AND AGAIN, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT'S STILL VERY PRELIMINARY, IS SAUDI AND FROM THE UNITED ARABS. SO THERE'S NO SUGGESTION SO FAR THAT ANY PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED. I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.

BUT THE OTHER THING IS, THERE ARE A SERIES OF DIFFERENT SOURCES OF CONFLICT OR ANGER OR FRUSTRATION WITH THE UNITED STATES. I MEAN, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THEM INDIVIDUALLY. DEPENDING ON WHO THE PEOPLE ARE WHO CARRIED THIS OUT, IT COULD BE ONE OR IT COULD BE A COMBINATION OF THOSE THINGS. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SAUDIS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE EASTERN PROVINCE, SHIITES IN LARGE WHO HAVE BEEN OPPRESSED BY THE SAUDI REGIME, WE'RE NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE FOR WHOM ECONOMIC AID IS GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. SO I THINK, IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, THESE SORTS OF NETWORKS SEEM TO ME NOT TO BE RESPONSIVE OR UNLIKELY TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THOSE KINDS OF INCENTIVES.

VAL>> DR. TODD SANDLER, THANK YOU SO MUCH. DR. LAURIE BRAND, BOTH FROM USC, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS NOW CLAIM THE HIJACKERS, AS WE MENTIONED, WHO FORCED THAT AIRLINER INTO THE PENTAGON YESTERDAY HAD ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO SLAM IT INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

JESS>> IT'S A STARTLING REMINDER THAT YESTERDAY'S TRAGEDY MIGHT HAVE BEEN EVEN WORSE. WITH MORE ON TODAY'S DEVELOPMENTS, HERE'S KWAMI HOLMAN FROM NEWSHOUR.

KWAMI HOLMAN>> MASSIVE RESCUE AND RECOVERY EFFORTS CONTINUED THROUGH THE NIGHT AND THIS MORNING IN LOWER MANHATTAN, THE AREA THAT HAD BEEN HOME TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ONLY YESTERDAY. MORE THAN 1,000 RELIEF CREWS TRIED TO CLEAR AWAY TONS OF DEBRIS AND RUBBLE FROM THE SITE OF THE ATTACKS, OFTEN BY HAND.

NEW YORKERS AWAKENED TO A CHANGED AND EERIE SKYLINE, ONE STILL CLOUDED WITH DUST AND SMOKE FROM THE SMOLDERING RUINS. JUST OFFSHORE, THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER, USS GEORGE WASHINGTON, WAS IN PLACE TO PROVIDE AIR DEFENSES IN THE SKIES OVER NEW YORK CITY, SHOULD THEY BE NEEDED. SATELLITE PHOTOS REVEALED THE BIG PICTURE OF DAMAGE AND SMOKE AT GROUND ZERO.

ON THE GROUND, THE SCENE INCLUDED BROKEN GIRDERS OF BUILDINGS ONCE AMONG THE TALLEST IN THE WORLD. BUSES AND RESCUE VEHICLES DESTROYED. A GIRL'S DOLL LYING ON THE STREET. CLOTHING RACKS COVERED WITH DUST. THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT, CREWS WORKED TO PULL OUT VICTIMS TRAPPED UNDERNEATH. THOUSANDS REMAIN MISSING, INCLUDING AT LEAST 202 FIREFIGHTERS AND 259 POLICE AND OTHER CITY WORKERS. NEW YORK GOVERNOR, GEORGE PATAKI, EXPRESSED THANKS TO THE RESCUERS.

GEORGE PATAKI>> MR. MAYOR, YOUR POLICE AND FIRE NOT ONLY WERE HEROES AT THE BEGINNING, BUT THEY'RE STILL HEROES. THEY'RE DOWN THERE UNDER ENORMOUS PERSONAL STRAIN AND RISK. I SAW THEM AT GROUND ZERO WHILE A HIGH-RISE WAS ON FIRE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET THAT COULD HAVE COLLAPSED, AND THEY ARE RISKING THEIR LIVES TO TRY TO SAVE THEIR FRIENDS AND THEIR COLLEAGUES AND THE NEW YORKERS WHO ARE STILL TRAPPED.

KWAMI HOLMAN>> MEANWHILE, CITY OFFICIALS STILL DID NOT HAVE AN ESTIMATE OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED, BUT MAYOR RUDOLPH GIULIANI SAID THE NUMBERS WOULD BE STAGGERING.

RUDOLPH GIULIANI>> BUILDING NUMBER TWO HAD A CHANCE TO CLEAR OUT. A LOT OF PEOPLE PROBABLY CLEARED OUT OF BUILDING NUMBER TWO. BUILDING NUMBER ONE HAD SOME TIME TO CLEAR OUT, BUT THERE WERE AREAS OF IT THAT WERE AFFECTED. THE BEST ESTIMATE THAT WE CAN MAKE, RELYING ON THE PORT AUTHORITY AND JUST EVERYONE ELSE THAT HAS EXPERIENCE OF WHAT THIS IS, THAT THERE WILL BE A FEW THOUSAND PEOPLE LEFT IN EACH BUILDING.

KWAMI HOLMAN>> OFFICIALS WITH THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY EXPLAINED TODAY WHY IT WAS TAKING SO LONG TO RECOVER THE BODIES AND HOW THAT COMPARED WITH THE BOMBING IN OKLAHOMA CITY.

BRUCE BAUGHMAN>> OKLAHOMA CITY, FOR THAT SMALL STRUCTURE, WENT FIFTEEN DAYS, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE WE'RE GOING TO BE IN A LONG SUSTAINED OPERATION. NOW THE DIFFERENCE IS, NEW YORK CITY HAS A TREMENDOUS CAPABILITY, 14,000 FIREFIGHTERS AND PARAMEDICS, SO THAT'S ALSO IN THE EQUATION. BUT I THINK THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AT LEAST A THIRTY TO SIXTY DAY OPERATION.

KWAMI HOLMAN>> WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RELIEF WORKERS, MANHATTAN'S LOWER WEST SIDE WAS SHUT DOWN TODAY. ALL OF THE FINANCIAL MARKETS WERE CLOSED FOR A SECOND STRAIGHT DAY AS WELL. THE MAYOR ENCOURAGED THE REST OF THE CITY TO TRY TO RETURN TO SOME SEMBLANCE OF A NORMAL DAY. THE TASK OF REBUILDING NEW YORK'S SAVAGED SKYLINE AND ITS CRIPPLED FINANCIAL DISTRICT, THE WORLD'S ECONOMIC NERVE CENTER, WAS A MAJOR CONCERN TO THE MAYOR.

RUDOLPH GIULIANI>> THERE'S NO QUESTION WE'RE GOING TO REBUILD. I CAN'T SAY THAT WE KNOW THE EXACT NATURE YET OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT. THE SKYLINE WILL BE WHOLE AGAIN. EXACTLY, YOU KNOW, WHAT WILL BE THERE, I THINK WE HAVE TO LEAVE TO GIVING SOME PEOPLE SOME TIME TO CONSIDER IT AND TO THINK ABOUT IT AND ALSO THE REALITY IS THAT THE PEOPLE IN NEW YORK ARE GOING TO BE WHOLE AGAIN. WE'RE GOING TO REBUILD. WE'RE NOT ONLY GOING TO REBUILD, BUT WE'RE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS STRONGER THAN WE WERE BEFORE.

IN ADDITION TO HAVING WONDERFUL PEOPLE IN NEW YORK, AS THE GOVERNOR INDICATED, WE ALSO HAVE THE STRONGEST BUSINESS COMMUNITY OF ANY PLACE IN THE WORLD AND WE'RE GOING TO CALL UPON THEM AND WE'RE GOING TO NEED THEIR HELP. BUT WE'RE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS EMOTIONALLY STRONGER, POLITICALLY STRONGER, MUCH CLOSER TOGETHER AS A CITY, AND WE'RE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS ECONOMICALLY STRONGER TOO.

KWAMI HOLMAN>> OFFICIALS SAID LATE THIS AFTERNOON THAT THE FINANCIAL MARKETS COULD REOPEN AS SOON AS TOMORROW, BUT THAT THE CLEANUP COULD TAKE WEEKS.

JESS>> A FEW HOURS AFTER YESTERDAY'S ATTACKS, WE SAW SOME DISTURBING IMAGES FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. WE WERE TALKING WITH PROFESSOR BRAND ABOUT THAT ISSUE EARLIER. PALESTINIANS TAKING TO THE STREETS TO CELEBRATE NEWS OF THE JETLINER ATTACKS ON AMERICAN TARGETS. PICTURES SUCH AS THESE CAN ADD TO THE PROBLEMS FACING MUSLIMS WHO LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES BY FUELING UGLY STEREOTYPES.

VAL>> ONE OF THE PEOPLE LEADING THE FIGHT AGAINST THOSE STEREOTYPES IS OMAR RICCI. HE IS WITH THE MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

OMAR RICCI>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

JESS>> THERE HAS BEEN REACTION?

OMAR RICCI>> YES, THERE HAS. HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE FACED WITH A NUMBER OF THINGS. NUMBER ONE, THERE IS THE OBVIOUS CONCERN OF MOST AMERICAN MUSLIMS THAT THERE WILL BE A BACKLASH, AND INDEED THERE HAS BEEN.

THROUGHOUT THE NATION, WE HAVE HEARD OF ABOUT A DOZEN INCIDENTS RANGING FROM WINDOWS GETTING SHOT OUT OF MOSQUES IN TEXAS TO VANDALISM HAPPENING TO MOSQUES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA. HERE IN THE SOUTHLAND, THERE IS A REPORT OF A SCHOOLGIRL IN UPLAND WHO WAS BEATEN BECAUSE SHE WORE THE HEADSCARF. IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THE ATTACK YESTERDAY, THERE WERE REPORTS OF PAKISTANI CAB DRIVERS BEING TAKEN OUT OF THEIR CABS AND BEATEN AS WELL.

VAL>> IN NEW YORK?

OMAR RICCI>> IN NEW YORK CITY. NOW THIS IS PART OF THE PATTERN. WE DON'T KNOW STILL WHO HAS PERPETRATED THIS ACT WITH ANY DEFINITIVE PROOF. YET THERE IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. OKLAHOMA CITY WAS, I THINK, A LESSON FOR THE UNITED STATES IN THAT IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THAT, MUSLIMS WERE IMPLICATED. THERE WAS ALL THESE SO-CALLED TERRORISM EXPERTS THAT WERE BROUGHT ON AND SAID, YOU KNOW, MUSLIMS HAVE STRUCK IN THE HEARTLAND OF AMERICA, AND IT TURNED OUT TO BE TIMOTHY MCVEIGH.

PATT>> WITHIN HOURS, WE KNEW THAT IT WAS A HOMEGROWN SUSPECT.

OMAR RICCI>> EXACTLY. SO FOR US AS AMERICAN MUSLIMS, THIS TYPE OF REACTION WITH OUR FELLOW CITIZENS, AND AGAIN, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE MAGNITUDE OF THIS ATTACK. AS ONE OF YOUR GUESTS WAS SAYING EARLIER, YOU KNOW, THE LOSS OF LIFE BEING ON THE ORDER OF PEARL HARBOR AND D-DAY, ETC. COMBINED, THIS IS OPENING UP A NEW CHAPTER IN AMERICA'S FIGHT ON TERRORISM.

AMERICAN MUSLIMS ARE APPREHENSIVE IN TERMS OF HOW OUR FELLOW CITIZENS ARE GOING TO REACT. THERE ARE SIX MILLION OF US IN THIS COUNTRY. WE LOOK AT OURSELVES AS BEING PART OF THE SOLUTION AND NOT PART OF THE PROBLEM. BUT OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS STILL A LOT OF IGNORANCE IN THIS COUNTRY AND THERE IS STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT MUSLIMS ARE A FOREIGN BODY. THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE PART OF THE MOSAIC OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT THEY --

VAL>> -- WHAT IS THE ONE ASPECT OF THE ISLAMIC FAITH THAT IS MOST MISUNDERSTOOD BY AMERICANS? YOU HEAR, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SACRED, OR THE JIHAD, THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE WILLING TO COMMIT SUICIDE BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN. IS THAT A KIND OF MYTHOLOGY OR IS THAT PARTIAL TRUTH OR WHAT?

OMAR RICCI>> THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP, AS A MATTER OF FACT, BECAUSE THE WORD JIHAD HAS A VERY SPECIAL MEANING FOR MUSLIMS WHO UNDERSTAND THE TERM. JIHAD DOES NOT MEAN HOLY WAR, NUMBER ONE. IT MEANS HOLY STRUGGLE. AND THE PRIMARY USAGE OF IT, WHEN YOU ACTUALLY STUDY A LITTLE BIT OF THE LANGUAGE, THE PRIMARY USAGE OF IT WAS HOLY STRUGGLE FROM WITHIN, THE TEMPTATIONS, THE DESIRES AND THE STRUGGLES WITHIN ONE'S SELF TO TRY AND BETTER ONE'S SELF AND SO ON AN SO FORTH.

YES, IN CERTAIN CASES, IT DOES MEAN HOLY STRUGGLE AGAINST OPPRESSION, BUT THE PRIMARY MEANING, AGAIN, IS THIS INTERNAL STRUGGLE. SO THERE IS A LOT THAT'S MISUNDERSTOOD WITH THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF DYING AND GETTING 72 VIRGINS AND HEAVEN. YOU KNOW, THAT NUMBER HAS ACTUALLY CHANGED FROM 250 TO 150 NOW (LAUGHTER), SO THESE --

VAL>> -- THEY'RE RUNNING OUT OF VIRGINS. (LAUGHTER)

OMAR RICCI>> EXACTLY. (LAUGHTER) SO YOU KNOW THE POINT IS --

VAL>> -- SO WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM? DOES IT COME FROM THE KORAN SOMEWHERE?

OMAR RICCI>> FIRST OF ALL, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE IN THE KORAN. I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT AGAIN. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE IN THE KORAN THAT SAYS THAT YOU WILL DIE AND GO TO HEAVEN AND GET VIRGINS. I WANT TO MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR TO VIEWERS. THOSE NUMBERS, THAT CONCEPT, IS REALLY BEING PUT OUT THERE BY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, IN OUR OPINION. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING TO REALLY NOTE, THAT OUR FAITH ITSELF, IN A NUTSHELL, IS THAT WE HAVE AS MUCH IN COMMON WITH CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM AS THEY HAVE WITH EACH OTHER.

PATT>> ON THAT POINT OF CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM, THE RANGE OF FAITH MUST BE JUST AS EXTREME. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUNDAY-ONLY PRACTITIONERS OF CHRISTIANITY, PEOPLE WHO GO TO CHURCH EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK, EVERY NIGHT OF THE WEEK. THE RANGE MUST BE THE SAME IN ISLAMIC THAT'S PRACTICED IN THE UNITED STATES. BUT YOU MUST BE UNIFIED, I WOULD THINK, IN YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS. ARE THERE PRACTICAL BITS OF ADVICE THAT YOU CAN GIVE TO MUSLIMS IN THE UNITED STATES? DO YOU TELL GIRLS NOT TO WEAR THEIR HEADSCARVES IN THE STREETS, FOR EXAMPLE?

OMAR RICCI>> THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT. I MEAN, AT THIS PARTICULAR STAGE, IT'S VERY EARLY TO TELL. WE'VE GOTTEN A NUMBER OF HATE E-MAILS, HATE PHONE CALLS --

VAL>> -- YOUR TEMPLE HAS? YOUR ORGANIZATION?

OMAR RICCI>> THE MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL, THE ISLAMIC CENTER OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING VERY ACTIVELY WITH THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT IN TERMS OF INVESTIGATING THOSE INCIDENTS. BUT FOR THE COMMON AMERICAN MUSLIM WHO IS NOW CONFUSED, WHO IS NOW AT A POINT WHERE THEY FEEL THIS ANGER, THIS SAME ANGER ABOUT THIS ACT OF TERRORISM THAT'S BEEN PERPETRATED AGAINST OUR COUNTRY, BUT IN THE SAME BREATH, PEOPLE ARE IMPLICATING THEM. PEOPLE ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU PEOPLE ARE THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER.

VAL>> IT'S THE "YOU PEOPLE" SYNDROME.

OMAR RICCI>> EXACTLY, AND IT'S NOT "YOU PEOPLE". WE GO FROM BEING A FRIEND ONE DAY TO A FOE THE OTHER JUST BECAUSE OF PEOPLES' EMOTIONS.

JESS>> OMAR RICCI, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT.

VAL>> VERY INTERESTING.

THE TERRORIST ATTACKS HAVE SPECIAL MEANING, OF COURSE, TO SOME SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA FAMILIES. THEY LOST LOVED ONES ON BOARD THOSE HIJACKED PLANES.

JESS>> BUT, OF COURSE, THE GREATEST TOLL WAS IN NEW YORK WHERE PEOPLE WALK THE STREETS TODAY HOPING TO FIND MISSING FAMILY MEMBERS. TONIGHT RAY SUAREZ LOOKS AT THE HUMAN FACES BEHIND THE TRAGEDY.

RAY SUAREZ>> WHILE CREWS STRUGGLED TO BRING ORDER OUT OF THE CHAOS AT THE SCENE OF THE ATTACK, IN OTHER PARTS OF NEW YORK, THE ATTENTION TURNED TO TREATING THE HURT, SEARCHING FOR THE MISSING AND PROCESSING THE DEAD. A DAY AND A HALF AFTER THE TERRORISTS STRUCK, THERE WAS STILL RELATIVELY LITTLE KNOWN ABOUT THE HUMAN COST OF THE CRIME.

OUTSIDE THE NEW SCHOOL UNIVERSITY IN NEW YORK'S GREENWICH VILLAGE, A LINE STRETCHED FOR A BLOCK. ST. VINCENT'S HOSPITAL, ONE OF THE MAIN TRAUMA CENTERS IN LOWER MANHATTAN, SET UP AN INFORMATION CLEARINGHOUSE, A UNIFIED DATABASE WITH ALL THE NEWS OF THE WOUNDED ADMITTED TO AREA HOSPITALS. JOHN CASTRO IS HELPING HIS SON LOOK FOR HIS FIANCE.

JOHN CASTRO>> HER PARENTS HAD CONTACT WITH HER RIGHT AFTER THE PLANE HIT THE FIRST TOWER, BUT WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING SINCE. YOU KNOW, THE SECOND PLANE WENT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THE SECOND TOWER THERE. THAT WAS THE LAST CONTACT ANYBODY HAS HAD WITH HER, SO WE'RE OUT HERE LOOKING. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO.

RAY SUAREZ>> WELL, IT MUST GET HARDER WITH EVERY HOUR THAT PASSES.

JOHN CASTRO>> WELL, IT IS QUITE HARD. I MEAN, AS TIME GOES BY, YOU KNOW THINGS ARE MORE BLEAK, BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO GIVE UP HOPE AND NEITHER DO I.

RAY SUAREZ>> THE FAMILY OF MOISE RIVAS, A CHEF AT WINDOWS ON THE WORLD, A FAMED RESTAURANT AT THE TOP OF THE WORLD TRADE TOWERS, ALSO WAITED FOR WORD AND WORKED THE PHONES.

>> WE DON'T FIND HIM IN THE LIST AT ALL AND I'M JUST WAITING FOR IS HE UP HERE. THAT'S IT.

RAY SUAREZ>> DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WENT TO WORK YESTERDAY MORNING?

>> YES, HE DID. HE CALLED ME FROM THERE AT 9:00 EXACTLY AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE LOVED ME AND THAT WAS IT AND HE HANG UP THE PHONE ON ME. IT WAS THE EXPLOSION RIGHT THERE, THE FIRST EXPLOSION.

RAY SUAREZ>> SO HE ALREADY KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP.

>> YEAH. HE SAID I'M OKAY, I'M OKAY, DON'T WORRY, I LOVE YOU, NO MATTER WHAT, I LOVE YOU AND HE JUST HANG UP.

VAL>> THOSE ARE ABSOLUTELY HEARTBREAKING, THOSE STORIES. BUT I WANT TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED EARLIER. IT'S A DIFFERENT WORLD, IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF WARFARE.

PATT>> THE FACT THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS TARGETED, THIS IS HOW WAR HAS ALWAYS BEEN WAGED. YOU JUST DON'T FIGHT SOLDIER TO SOLDIER. FOR THE REAL MORALE DESTROYING, YOU GO AFTER THE SACRED AND IMPORTANT SITES. WE BOMBED DRESDEN IN GERMANY. THE GERMANS BOMBED BUCKINGHAM PALACE. THEY BOMBED SALISBURY CATHEDRAL. THIS HAS GONE ON FOR 1,000 YEARS.

VAL>> SO THE FACT THAT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS A TARGET IS NO SURPRISE?

PATT>> IS NOT A SURPRISE. IT'S A FACT THAT IT CAME TO CIVILIANS IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. EVEN DURING THE CIVIL WAR, IT VERY, VERY RARELY HAPPENED EXCEPT THIS COLLATERAL DAMAGE DURING --

VAL>> MAYBE THE ONLY SURPRISE IS THAT THEY MISSED.

PATT>> YEAH. AND SO I THINK THAT THIS THE MOST SHOCKING THING FOR PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY. NOT ONLY THAT WAR IS ON OUR SHORES, BUT THAT IT IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF WAR BEING WAGED AGAINST THE --

JESS>> AND IN ADDITION TO TARGETING THE WHITE HOUSE, THEY WERE ALSO TARGETING AIR FORCE ONE.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. WELL, A HARDER TARGET BECAUSE IT WAS MOVING. AND THEN ALSO CAMP DAVID, WHICH WE SAY MAYBE DOESN'T MEAN THAT MUCH TO AMERICANS, BUT IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS.

JESS>> AND THE ANNIVERSARY OF THAT IS RIGHT --

PATT>> -- ALL THESE CONVERGENCES OF SYMBOLISM AND I THINK THAT WE UNFORTUNATELY WILL NOT HAVE SEEN THE LAST OF SOME OF THESE ATTEMPTS, HOWEVER FAILED THE FUTURE ONES MAY BE, BUT LET US JUST KNOW THAT THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD OPERATES NOW.

VAL>> PATT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN.

PATT>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

VAL>> LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE EVENTS AND SOME OF THE THOUGHTS YOU'VE HEARD EXPRESSED ON THIS PROGRAM. YOU CAN SHARE YOUR COMMENTS BY E-MAIL, TELEPHONE OR REGULAR MAIL. HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

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JESS>> THAT'S IT FOR THIS SPECIAL ONE-HOUR EDITION OF OUR PROGRAM. A QUICK PROGRAM NOTE, SISTER WENDY'S COLLECTION COMING UP NEXT DOES CONTAIN IMAGES OF NEW YORK THAT WERE TAKEN BEFORE THE TERRORIST ATTACKS. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. GOOD NIGHT.

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