9/13/01

LC010913

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> AMERICA NOW HAS A PRIME SUSPECT IN THIS WEEK'S TERRORIST ATTACKS, BUT WHAT COMES NEXT? TONIGHT WE'LL TALK LIVE WITH REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN DAVID DREIER ABOUT THE PLAN TO BRING THE GUILTY PARTIES TO JUSTICE. PLUS WE'LL HEAR AN EXPERT TALK ABOUT WAYS WE CAN AVOID FUTURE ATTACKS.

VAL>> AND HUELL HOWSER HAS BEEN OUT ON THE STREETS OF LOS ANGELES WATCHING PEOPLE RESPOND TO THE CRISIS. TONIGHT HE'LL BE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE HUMAN REACTION TO THIS NATIONAL TRAGEDY.

JESS>> ALSO, PATT MORRISON WONDERS WHETHER AMERICANS ARE EQUAL TO THE TEST THEY FACE AFTER THIS WEEK'S TERRORIST ATTACKS.

PATT>> BEYOND THE RED, WHITE AND BLUE IS THE GOLD STANDARD OF AMERICANISM AND THE ASSAY OF WHAT WE BELIEVE, ON TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> AND THERE WAS ANOTHER DARK DAY THAT CHANGED AMERICA FOREVER. TONIGHT WE'LL MEET ONE OF ITS SURVIVORS.

LENORE RICKERT>> WELL, THEN WE BEGAN TO HEAR THE BOMBS BECAUSE OUR HOSPITAL POINT WAS THE NARROWEST POINT OF THE CHANNEL GOING INTO THE HARBOR AND WE WERE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

VAL>> AN ORANGE COUNTY WOMAN WHO WAS ON THE FRONTLINES OF PEARL HARBOR SIXTY YEARS AGO AND IT ALL CAME RUSHING BACK TO HER THIS WEEK.

JESS>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

THE AIRPORTS ARE OPEN AGAIN AND COMMERCIAL FLIGHTS ARE BACK IN THE AIR, BUT OUR SECURITY WORRIES ARE JUST BEGINNING.

VAL>> TODAY IN WASHINGTON, THE U.S. CAPITOL WAS EVACUATED AFTER POLICE SPOTTED A SUSPICIOUS PACKAGE. SENATE AND HOUSE MEMBERS HAD TO DROP WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND HEAD FOR SAFETY IN THE CAPITOL PARKING LOT. IT TURNED OUT, FORTUNATELY, TO BE A FALSE ALARM.

JESS>> GIVEN THE EVENTS OF THIS WEEK, IT'S EASY TO SEE WHY ALL OF US MAY FEEL A BIT NERVOUS. HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT IS A HIGHLY-REGARDED NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT, AMY ZEGART, PROFESSOR OF POLICY STUDIES AT UCLA. AND JOINING US BY TELEPHONE FROM WASHINGTON IS REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN DAVID DREIER OF SAN DIMAS, ONE OF THOSE WHO HAD TO EVACUATE THE CAPITOL BUILDING THIS AFTERNOON. WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

DAVID DREIER>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

AMY ZEGART>> NICE TO BE HERE.

JESS>> CONGRESSMAN, WAS THAT A SERIOUS CONCERN AFTER ALL THE EVENTS IN WASHINGTON, THE SUGGESTION THAT THE WHITE HOUSE HAD AT ONE TIME BEEN TARGETED AND REPORTS THAT ONE OF THE PLANES MIGHT HAVE CIRCLED THE CAPITOL? YOU TAKE THESE THREATS VERY SERIOUSLY NOW, DON'T YOU?

DAVID DREIER>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY, WE DO, JESS, AND IT'S VERY INTERESTING THAT NEVER BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF THE REPUBLIC HAS THE U.S. CAPITOL BEEN EVACUATED. NOT DURING THE WAR OF 1812 AND YET, IN THE LAST TWO DAYS, THE CAPITOL HAS BEEN EVACUATED TWICE. UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES, BEFORE TWO DAYS AGO, A BOX THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FOUND IN THE CAPITOL WOULD HAVE LED TO THE CLEARING OF A ROOM AND THE POLICE SQUAD WOULD HAVE COME IN TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE. BUT UNDER THESE TRYING CIRCUMSTANCES, THE ENTIRE CAPITOL WAS EVACUATED AND WE WENT ON TO THE EAST FRONT.

VAL>> WE'LL GET BACK TO SOME OF THAT IN A MOMENT IF WE CAN, BUT I ALSO WANT TO ADDRESS OR ASK AMY ZEGART, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE COULD HAVE DONE TO HAVE MITIGATED THIS ATTACK? FOR EXAMPLE, I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A BIG ADVOCATE OF REFORMS WITHIN OUR INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, REFORMS THAT HAVE NOT COME ABOUT. ELABORATE ON THAT FOR US.

AMY ZEGART>> WELL, I THINK, FIRST, IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THIS KIND OF INTELLIGENCE TO GATHER TO PREVENT A CATASTROPHIC TERRORIST ATTACK IS EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT TO GET, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY TOUGH NUT TO CRACK. THAT SAID, I THINK THERE WERE THREE MAJOR FACTORS THAT MADE IT FAR MORE LIKELY THAT WE WERE GOING TO SEE THE TRAGEDY THAT WE SAW THIS WEEK.

THE FIRST IS THAT THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY REALLY HASN'T CHANGED SINCE THE COLD WAR. IT HASN'T ADAPTED TO THE NEW ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH WE LIVE. ONE GREAT EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THAT WE STILL OVER-FUND ELECTRONIC INTELLIGENCE, THINGS LIKE SATELLITES WHICH WERE GREAT FOR COUNTING WARHEADS OF THE SOVIET UNION, AND WE UNDER-FUND HUMAN INTELLIGENCE, SPIES THAT COULD BE USED TO INFILTRATE TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS ON THE GROUND. SO THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY HASN'T REALLY CHANGED.

THE SECOND MAJOR FACTOR, I THINK, IS THAT WE HAVE NO HIGH-LEVEL FOCAL POINT TO COORDINATE COUNTER-TERRORISM POLICY IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. WE HAVE 45 DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES OF OUR GOVERNMENT THAT HAVE A HAND IN COUNTER-TERRORIST POLICY. THERE'S --

VAL>> -- BUT NO SINGLE COORDINATING AGENCY?

AMY ZEGART>> NO. THERE'S NO ONE PLACE WHERE THE BUCK STOPS AND, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, ISSUES FALL OFF THE RADAR SCREEN. THEN THE THIRD FACTOR, AND I'M SURE THE CONGRESSMAN WILL AGREE, IS THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD THE KIND OF POLITICAL WILL TO MAKE THESE CHANGES UNTIL NOW. MY ONE GREAT HOPE FROM THIS TRAGEDY IS THAT NOW WE DO HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL TO MAKE THE KINDS OF CHANGES WE NEED.

JESS>> CONGRESSMAN DRIER?

DAVID DREIER>> WELL, AMY IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON ALL THREE POINTS. I ALWAYS TRY TO LOOK FOR A SILVER LINING IN A DARK CLOUD, AND THIS IS CLEARLY ONE OF THE DARKEST CLOUDS IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY. BUT I BELIEVE THAT, ON HER FIRST TWO POINTS, WE HAVE NOW GOT THE ABILITY TO ADDRESS THEM BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS THE WILL TO DO IT.

CLEARLY, WE HAVE PEOPLE GOING BACK NOT JUST TO THE COLD WAR, BUT WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE, AMY, WHO HAVE REALLY EMERGED FROM FIGHTING THE SECOND WORLD WAR WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN INTELLIGENCE GATHERING AND WITHIN THE STRUCTURE OF OUR MILITARY. THE THREAT HAS CHANGED AND WE NEED TO REALIZE THAT AND I AGREE THAT THE HUMAN NATURE, TOO, ALSO HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.

JESS>> WILL THIS PRODUCE REFORM?

DAVID DREIER>> ABSOLUTELY, AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT -- YOU KNOW, I CHAIR THE RULES COMMITTEE HERE. THE VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE RULES COMMITTEE WITH ME HAPPENS TO ALSO SERVE AS CHAIRMAN OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, WHEN WE EVACUATED THE CAPITOL, WE WERE GETTING A TOP-SECRET BRIEFING FROM THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY AND THE DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION.

CLEARLY, IT IS VERY APPARENT THAT BRINGING ABOUT CHANGE, LOOKING ANEW AT THE ENTIRE INTELLIGENCE ARM OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, IS GOING TO BE A VERY HIGH PRIORITY, AND I BELIEVE THE TWO REFORMS WHICH AMY CORRECTLY POINTED TO WILL BE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

VAL>> WELL, AMY, THAT MUST BE VERY REASSURING, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THESE KINDS OF PROBLEMS HAVE EXISTED SINCE PEARL HARBOR AND NO CHANGES HAVE OCCURRED, SO WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF ACTUALLY MAKING THESE CHANGES?

AMY ZEGART>> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK IT'S AN UPHILL BATTLE TO GET THE KINDS OF FUNDAMENTAL REFORMS THAT WE NEED. I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT CONGRESSMAN DREIER IS RIGHT, BUT FOR EXAMPLE, THE CONGRESS, SINCE 1999, HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THREE SEPARATE BIPARTISAN COMMISSIONS LOOKING AT THE ISSUE OF COUNTER-TERRORISM. ALL OF THEM SAID THIS WAS A GRAVE AND IMMEDIATE THREAT. ALL OF THEM SAID WE HAD MAJOR ORGANIZATIONAL PROBLEMS. ALL OF THEM PROPOSED MAJOR CHANGES. AND YET NOTHING HAPPENED. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE POINTING FINGERS. I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY THE RESPONSIBILITY IS FOR VOTERS LIKE US TO GIVE THE INCENTIVES TO POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON TO MAKE THESE KINDS OF TOUGH REFORMS.

DAVID DREIER>> WELL, AMY, YOU REMEMBER GOING BACK TO DECEMBER OF 1999 WHEN THE SO-CALLED MILLENNIUM ATTACK WHICH WAS COMING? IT ENDED UP HAVING COME FROM AFRICA, ALGERIA, THROUGH CANADA, INTO THE UNITED STATES. THAT WAS AVERTED BY OUR INTELLIGENCE ARM AND IT WAS AT THAT TIME THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THESE VERY IMPORTANT REFORMS. BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE THE TRAGIC CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WE DO TODAY AND I BELIEVE THE WORST ATTACK THAT WE'VE SEEN SINCE PEARL HARBOR WILL IN FACT LEAD US TO MAKE THE CHANGES THAT WE HAVE NOT MADE SINCE PEARL HARBOR.

VAL>> SO THE DIFFERENCE BEING THE LOSS OF LIVES IS THE INCENTIVE BEHIND LONG OVERDUE REFORMS?

DAVID DREIER>> WELL, I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE DO NOT WANT THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED SO TRAGICALLY -- AND AGAIN AS I POINTED OUT TO YOU ALL THE OTHER NIGHT, ALL FOUR OF THOSE PLANES WERE HEADED TO OUR STATE OF CALIFORNIA -- WE DO NOT WANT THEM TO HAVE DIED IN VAIN. THAT'S WHY WE NOT ONLY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE BRING TO JUSTICE THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE HERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

JESS>> LET ME ASK YOU BOTH. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CIA AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FBI, AND BOTH HAVE COMMITTED ENORMOUS BLUNDERS IN RECENT MONTHS AND YEARS. ARE THESE AGENCIES CAPABLE OF FILLING THE NEED?

DAVID DREIER>> GO AHEAD, AMY.

AMY ZEGART>> I THINK THEY ARE. I THINK THAT IT STARTS WITH -- WE HAVE IDEAS ON THE SHELF ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS AND I'LL GIVE YOU ONE GREAT EXAMPLE. GEORGE TENET, OUR CIA DIRECTOR, ONLY CONTROLS FIFTEEN PERCENT OF THE INTELLIGENCE BUDGET AND HE ONLY HAS REAL AUTHORITY OVER ONE OF THE THIRTEEN AGENCIES IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY. HE NEEDS TO HAVE A LOT MORE AUTHORITY TO MATCH OUR RESOURCES AGAINST NATIONAL PRIORITIES. THAT'S ONE PLACE TO START.

JESS>> CONGRESSMAN?

DAVID DREIER>> WELL, I BELIEVE THAT IT REALLY GOES BEYOND THE FBI AND THE CIA AND IT ALSO HAS TO DO WITH OUR POLICY IN THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. AMY'S CORRECT IN PLAYING TO THAT PERCENTAGE BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, A LOT OF THIS DEALS WITH THE OVERALL NATIONAL SECURITY BEYOND INTELLIGENCE GATHERING AND THE ACTIVITIES OF THE FBI. DONALD RUMSFELD -- INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, I WAS SCHEDULED TO HAVE LUNCH WITH HIM -- I WAS HOSTING A LUNCH FOR HIM RIGHT UP HERE WHERE I'M SITTING IN THE RULES COMMITTEE. 

HE, THE DAY BEFORE, ON MONDAY, LAUNCHED A PROPOSAL FOR A $15 BILLION DOLLAR CUT TO DEAL WITH MAJOR REFORMS. HE'S BEEN FRUSTRATED, BUT HE IS A VERY DILIGENT HARD WORKER ON THIS. HE'S ALIENATED MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES IN THE CONGRESS BECAUSE OF HIS QUEST FOR REFORM, I KNOW. BUT THE FACT IS, HE'S DETERMINED TO DO IT AND, WITH THIS KIND OF LEADERSHIP AND THE TRAGIC INCENTIVE THAT WE'VE DEVELOPED OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS, I'M CONVINCED THAT WE CAN DO IT AND I'M CERTAINLY COMMITTED TO IT.

VAL>> CONGRESSMAN DAVID DREIER FROM ORANGE COUNTY, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR GIVING US YOUR TIME AND --

DAVID DREIER>> -- LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) AND PROFESSOR AMY ZEGART FROM UCLA, THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS AND YOUR EXPERTISE.

COMING UP, A FAMILIAR FACE. OUR VERY OWN HUELL HOWSER. HE'S GOT SOME COMPELLING STORIES TO TELL US FROM THE STREETS OF LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> DISASTERS SUCH AS THIS WEEK'S TERRORIST ATTACKS CAN BRING OUT THE WORST IN PEOPLE, BUT THEY CAN ALSO BRING OUT THE BEST. ACROSS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LINING UP AT BLOOD BANKS TO HELP ALL THE PEOPLE IN NEED BACK EAST, A PRIME EXAMPLE OF HOW AMERICA CAN ALWAYS COUNT ON THE KINDNESS OF STRANGERS TO GET THROUGH A CRISIS.

VAL>> A FELLOW YOU WILL RECOGNIZE HAS BEEN OUT ON THE STREETS TALKING TO MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE AND HUELL HOWSER IS HERE TONIGHT TO SHARE SOME OF THE STORIES HE'S PUT TOGETHER FOR TWO UPCOMING PROGRAMS STARTING TONIGHT. HUELL, WELCOME. I IMAGINE IT GOT VERY EMOTIONAL OUT THERE.

HUELL HOWSER>> WELL, IT'S BEEN -- I MEAN, I CAN'T IMAGINE EVERYONE OUT THERE WATCHING TONIGHT. WE'VE ALL KIND OF LIVED THROUGH THIS TOGETHER THROUGH TELEVISION. I STAYED HOME ALL DAY TUESDAY, JUST LIKE MOST PEOPLE DID, GLUED TO THE TELEVISION SET. I DON'T THINK THE TV HAS BEEN OFF IN MY HOUSE SINCE. WE'RE ALL SHARING THIS TOGETHER AND WE'RE SHARING THESE AMAZING VARIETY OF EMOTIONS.

VAL>> CONFLICTING OFTEN.

HUELL HOWSER>> CONFLICTING. ONE MINUTE WE'RE ANGRY, WE WANT TO BOMB THE HELL OUT OF WHOEVER DID THIS. THE NEXT MINUTE WE'RE CRYING. THE PRESIDENT CRIED TODAY. I THINK IT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE EVER BEEN FACED WITH SO MANY CONFLICTING EMOTIONS, ALL OF US.

JESS>> DID YOU FIND THOSE CONFLICTING EMOTIONS OUT ON THE STREETS OF LOS ANGELES?

HUELL HOWSER>> WELL, I DID. I WAS GOING TO SAY, I SAT AT HOME FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS FEELING SORRY FOR MYSELF AND FINALLY I SAID, YOU KNOW, I NEED TO GET OUT OF HERE AND GET OUT WITH PEOPLE AND KIND OF TRY TO TAP INTO WHAT'S GOING ON OUT THERE ON THE STREETS AND IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS OF LOS ANGELES. THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO DO AND I CHOSE THE BLOOD BANK ON VERMONT AVENUE.

VAL>> WHICH IS HERE IN HOLLYWOOD?

HUELL HOWSER>> RIGHT IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES. I'M NOT SURE -- MOST OF THE TIME I GO OUT, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT I'M GETTING INTO AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT I THOUGHT I WOULD FIND THERE. I THOUGHT I WOULD FIND A LOT OF PEOPLE LAYING ON COTS WITH NEEDLES IN THEIR ARMS GIVING BLOOD.

BUT BESIDES THAT, I THINK WHAT HIT ME FIRST, AND PEOPLE WILL SEE THAT TONIGHT ON THE PROGRAM AT 7:30, WHEN WE WALKED IN THE DOOR AND FOUND OUT THAT THEY'RE NOT EVEN TAKING BLOOD DONORS ANYMORE EXCEPT BY APPOINTMENT TWO DAYS LATER BECAUSE THERE ARE 400 PEOPLE LINED UP INSIDE THAT HAVE BEEN SITTING THERE FOR FIVE HOURS. WHEN I WALKED IN, HERE WAS THIS VAST ARRAY OF PEOPLE, EVERY COLOR, EVERY RACE, EVERY AGE, EVERY RELIGION, EVERY STATION IN LIFE, MOST NOT EVEN ABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH.

JESS>> MOST?

HUELL HOWSER>> MOST.

VAL>> IN THE PART OF DOWNTOWN, THE PART OF L.A., YOU WENT TO, YEAH.

HUELL HOWSER>> WHO TRIED TO EXPRESS AS BEST THEY COULD WHY THEY WERE THERE. I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU, IT WAS OVERWHELMING. LIKE I SAY, I'M NOT SURE WHO I EXPECTED TO FIND. WE'RE IN L.A. THIS SHOULDN'T BE ANY SURPRISE. THIS IS THE FACE OF L.A. WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT. BUT TO SEE THESE PEOPLE, NEW AMERICANS, BARELY ABLE TO SPEAK OUR LANGUAGE, WITH AMERICAN FLAGS STUCK IN THEIR POCKET AND THE WORD "DONOR" WRITTEN ON THEIR CHEST, READY TO GO IN, AND MANY FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME AND MANY MEN AND WOMEN AFRAID, BUT THERE TO DO WHAT THEY COULD. IT'S SO INTERESTING BECAUSE WE ALL FEEL IN OUR OWN WAYS AT HOME SO HELPLESS. THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO.

JESS>> THAT WAS THE ONE ACTION PEOPLE COULD TAKE.

HUELL HOWSER>> IT WAS THE ONE ACTION PEOPLE COULD GIVE AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT IT, THINK ABOUT YOUR BLOOD. WHITE BLOOD, BLACK BLOOD, ASIAN BLOOD, HISPANIC BLOOD, IT'S ALL BLOOD. NO ONE CARES WHO IT'S GOING TO AND NO ONE GETTING IT CARES WHO IT'S COMING FROM. IT'S THE ULTIMATE GIFT OF LIFE THAT WE CAN GIVE. IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS TURMOIL AND STRESS AND PAIN AND HORROR THAT WE ARE ALL GOING THROUGH, I WAS BLESSED TO EXPERIENCE FOR THAT COUPLE OF HOURS THIS SEA OF PEACE AND TRANQUILITY RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF LOS ANGELES WITH ALL OF THESE WONDERFUL ANGELENOS GIVING THE ULTIMATE GIFT.

VAL>> I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT UNITE US. ONE IS THE BLOOD AND THE OTHER IS PRAYER. THERE'S A TREMENDOUS OUTPOURING. PEOPLE ARE PACKING INTO CHURCH SERVICES, PEOPLE ARE UNITING IN THAT WAY AS WELL. THOSE TWO THINGS SEEM TO UNITE US.

HUELL HOWSER>> WELL, WE'RE GOING BACK OUT ON THE STREETS AGAIN NEXT WEEK AND DO MORE OF THIS TYPE OF PROGRAMMING BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO SEE NOW, THIS HUMANITY AND THIS SENSE THAT WE'RE IN THIS TOGETHER, WHATEVER THIS MEANS.

JESS>> PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE GOING TO COUNTER SOME OF THE HATE GROUPS WHO WE ARE GOING TO BE TARGETING, SOME OF THOSE SAME PEOPLE THAT YOU SAW GIVING BLOOD, I SUSPECT.

HUELL HOWSER>> WELL, ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS L.A. AT ITS BEST. AND ALL THE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO MILITARILY AND ALL OF THE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THESE BIGGER ISSUES, IT REALLY BOILS DOWN TO WE'VE ALL GOT TO LEARN TO LIVE TOGETHER. HERE IN LOS ANGELES, THIS IS SUCH A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING GOOD, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE, COMING FROM SOMETHING THIS HORRIBLE.

JESS>> A CERTAIN IRONY, TOO, BECAUSE THERE WAS A SEVERE SHORTAGE OF BLOOD IN THE WEEKS THAT PRECEDED THIS.

VAL>> SEVERE.

HUELL HOWSER>> WELL, LOOK AT THIS. NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT THEY DON'T EVEN NEED ANY MORE BLOOD IN NEW YORK. THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE GIVING BLOOD NOW ARE NOT REALLY -- THEIR BLOOD IS NOT REALLY GOING TO THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK, BUT IT'S GOING TO THEIR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS SOMEWHERE IN THIS COUNTRY, SOMEWHERE IN THIS CITY AND WHAT A --

VAL>> -- AND IT'S FULFILLING THEIR OWN NEED TO GIVE, WHETHER WE'RE STOCKPILED NOW WITH MORE BLOOD THAN WE NEED. I MEAN, I THINK IT'S FANTASTIC BECAUSE WE HAVE LIVED WITH BLOOD SHORTAGES FOR YEARS.

JESS>> IT WAS THE RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION, WHAT CAN WE DO?

HUELL HOWSER>> EXACTLY. WELL, WE'RE ALL GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS STRESS TOGETHER FOR THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AND MAYBE YEARS THAT WILL COME.

VAL>> WHAT BLOOD TYPE ARE YOU? (LAUGHTER)

HUELL HOWSER>> (LAUGHTER) DO YOU WANT TO KNOW IF I GAVE?

VAL>> WELL, AN INDIRECT WAY OF ASKING, YES.

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) I GAVE AT THE OFFICE.

VAL>> I'M A-NEGATIVE.

HUELL HOWSER>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT IT. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WHAT YOUR BLOOD TYPE IS, WE ALL BLEED RED.

JESS>> EXCEPT FOR DODGER FANS, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE. (LAUGHTER)

HUELL HOWSER>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ANOTHER THING. YOU TALK ABOUT DODGER FANS. THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT WE DO HAVE TO OVERCOME AND THAT WILL BE -- WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN TOMORROW NIGHT'S PROGRAM --

JESS>> -- HOW TO OVERCOME THE DODGERS? (LAUGHTER)

HUELL HOWSER>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, NO. THE PROBLEM IS, WHEN DO WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE CAN SIT DOWN AT LUNCH AND ACTUALLY TALK AND REALLY CARE ABOUT WHETHER THE DODGERS WIN OR NOT OR WHO USC --

VAL>> -- YOU MEAN, WHEN DO WE GET PAST THIS?

HUELL HOWSER>> YEAH, BECAUSE, YOU SEE, WE'VE GOT THIS DICHOTOMY OF EMOTIONS. OBVIOUSLY, LIFE HAS TO GO ON. WE HAVE TO RETURN TO NORMAL PROGRAMMING AT SOME POINT ON THE AIR. BUT HOW DO WE GET RID OF WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE FEELING IN OUR HEARTS AND IN OUR SOULS EVERY DAY WHEN WE'RE BOMBARDED WITH THESE PICTURES? AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.

JESS>> IT WILL TAKE TIME.

HUELL HOWSER>> IT'S A VERY STRANGE TIME AND CONFLICTING TIME THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH. I THINK, HOPEFULLY, IF THESE PROGRAMS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING WILL DO ANYTHING, THEY WILL HELP US ALL TALK ABOUT IT, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US INSTEAD OF HOLDING IT INSIDE. YOU KNOW, IT'S OKAY FOR MEN TO CRY --

JESS>> -- WE'VE SEEN A GOOD BIT OF THAT.

HUELL HOWSER>> -- AND I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THAT AND I THINK THAT'S HEALTHY. YOU CAN CRY AND STILL BE A STRONG PERSON.

VAL>> ONE OF MANY, MANY LESSONS I HOPE WE LEARN AND DON'T FORGET. HUELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH. YOU'RE WELCOME BACK ANY TIME.

ONCE AGAIN, HUELL'S SPECIAL EDITION OF VISITING STARTS TONIGHT HERE ON KCET RIGHT AFTER LIFE AND TIMES, SO STAY TUNED. RED CROSS DONATION CENTERS, BY THE WAY, ARE STAYING OPEN LATE TO ACCEPT BLOOD DONATIONS. AND TO AVOID A LONG WAIT, DONORS ARE URGED TO CALL AND SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENT. THE NUMBER IS 1-800-GIVE-LIFE. THE MOST PRESSING NEED, BY THE WAY, IS FOR TYPE O, THE MOST UNUSUAL BLOOD.

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JESS>> PATT MORRISON TELLS US IT'S NOT ALWAYS WHAT YOU DO IN A CRISIS THAT COUNTS, BUT WHAT COMES LATER. HERE'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT>> THIS WEEK'S ATTACKS CONSTITUTE A KIND OF TEST, BUT NOT NECESSARILY IN THE WAY PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH USED THE WORD. IT'S A TEST THAT WASN'T REALLY ADMINISTERED THIS WEEK WHILE SMOKE AND FIRE REIGNED, WHILE AMERICANS COULD BE AT THEIR BEST IN MOMENTS OF CRISIS. IT'S A TEST THAT AWAITS US IN THE MONTHS HEREAFTER WHEN THE HEROICS OF THE MOMENT ARE REPLACED BY DULLER FEELINGS. THE TEST IS THIS.

IF WHOEVER DID THIS CAN FORCE US TO BECOME LIKE THEM, LIKE ANY FEARFUL AND BESIEGED AND VENGEFUL PEOPLE, IF BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY BECOMES THE NATIONAL MOTTO, IF THE LAND OF THE FREE BECOMES THE HOME OF THE MILITARY CHECKPOINT AND THE NATIONAL ID CARD, THEN WE FAIL.

FOR MY MONEY, THIS WEEK'S MOST INSPIRING PUBLIC FIGURE WAS NOT IN WASHINGTON, D.C., BUT HERE IN LOS ANGELES. HARRY PRAGERSON IS A FEDERAL JUDGE, A MARINE WOUNDED ON OKINAWA WHOSE CONSCIENCE, HE HAS SAID, IS FORGED OUT OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, THE BILL OF RIGHTS, THE BOY SCOUT OATH, AND THE MARINE CORPS HYMN. AS COURTS IN PUBLIC BUILDINGS WERE CLOSING DOWN ACROSS THE NATION TUESDAY, PRAGERSON'S COURTROOM WAS OPEN FOR BUSINESS. "WE CAN'T LET TERRORISTS SHUT US DOWN", HE DECLARED. IN THE NAME OF AMERICA, HARRY PRAGERSON, AT LEAST, WOULD NOT BE STAMPEDED INTO LOCKING THE DOOR ON WHAT AMERICA IS MEANT TO BE ABOUT.

ALREADY WE MAKE TRADEOFFS EVERY DAY, BARTERING LIBERTIES FOR SECURITY. WE LET THE GOVERNMENT KEEP SECRETS. WE SUBMIT TO VIDEO MONITORING IN STORES AND TO SCANS AND SEARCHES TO GET ON A PLANE OR WALK INTO A COURTROOM. ONE DAY SOON, PEOPLE WITH THE BEST OF INTENTIONS WILL BE SAYING THAT ANY SECURITY CONCERN SHOULD OUTWEIGH ANY CIVIL LIBERTY, AND PEOPLE WITH THE DARKEST OF INTENTIONS MAY GLEEFULLY RIDE THEIR COATTAILS

SO THE NATION'S TEST IS WHETHER ITS CONSTITUTION, ITS BILL OF RIGHTS, IS PARCHMENT OR SOMETHING STRONGER, SOMETHING FIREPROOF AND FEAR-PROOF. IT IS THE TEST OF HOW MUCH AMERICANS TRULY BELIEVE IN AMERICA.

VAL>> THEY ARE CALLING THE ATTACKS ON NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON AMERICA'S DARKEST DAY. BUT SIXTY YEARS AGO, AMERICA SURVIVED ANOTHER DAY OF INFAMY.

JESS>> AND TONIGHT YOU'LL MEET AN ORANGE COUNTY WOMAN WHO SURVIVED THE TRAGEDY OF PEARL HARBOR. SHE TELLS US THIS WEEK'S TERRORIST ATTACKS CAUSED ALL THOSE OLD MEMORIES TO COME RUSHING BACK. GAY YEE HAS HER STORY.

GAY>> IT'S THE STUFF THEY MAKE MOVIES ABOUT, BUT PEARL HARBOR REALLY HAPPENED WITH REAL PEOPLE AND 87-YEAR-OLD LENORE RICKERT WAS ONE OF THEM.

LENORE RICKERT>> WELL, IT WAS LIKE ANY OTHER KIND OF DUTY UNTIL THE WAR BROKE OUT.

GAY>> LENORE WAS A 27-YEAR-OLD NURSE STATIONED AT PEARL HARBOR, ON DUTY DECEMBER 7, 1941 AND MAKING HER ROUNDS. IT WAS 7:00 A.M. AND SUDDENLY --

LENORE RICKERT>> WE HEARD A PLANE RIGHT OVERHEAD AND IT WAS COMING RIGHT DOWN BETWEEN THE WARDS. I WENT TO THE WINDOW RIGHT AWAY AND HERE WAS THIS PLANE WITH A SINGLE MAN IN IT.

GAY>> SHE NOTICED THE PILOT WAS ASIAN AND THEN SHE NOTICED SOMETHING ELSE.

LENORE RICKERT>> THE PLANES HAD THESE GREAT BIG ROUND RED CIRCLES ON THE SIDES OF THEM.

GAY>> THAT DAY, 350 JAPANESE WAR PLANES ATTACKED U.S. NAVY SHIPS IN PEARL HARBOR, KILLING MORE THAN 2,000 PEOPLE. LENORE HAD NO IDEA SHE WAS WITNESSING THE BEGINNING OF AMERICA'S WORLD WAR II, A DAY THAT WOULD LIVE IN INFAMY, AND IT ALL BEGAN AS SHE WATCHED THAT JAPANESE PLANE PASS OUTSIDE HER WINDOW.

LENORE RICKERT>> HE CRASHED RIGHT THERE. THEN WE BEGAN TO HEAR THE BOMBS BECAUSE THE HOSPITAL POINT WAS THE NARROWEST POINT OF THE CHANNEL GOING INTO THE HARBOR AND WE WERE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

GAY>> LENORE MET HER HUSBAND AT PEARL HARBOR, AN ENLISTED MAN WHO LATER BECAME A PRISONER OF WAR. THEY REUNITED THE DAY THE WAR ENDED, GOT MARRIED AND WENT ON TO HAVE TWO CHILDREN. TODAY LENORE LIVES IN LAGUNA WOODS, A RETIREMENT COMMUNITY IN ORANGE COUNTY, 87, A GRANDMOTHER AND A GREAT-GRANDMOTHER. SHE SAYS SHE NEVER IMAGINED HER GRANDBABIES WOULD BE WITNESSING A DAY OF INFAMY OF THEIR OWN.

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GAY>> LENORE SAYS SHE SEES LOTS OF SIMILARITIES BETWEEN PEARL HARBOR AND THE RECENT TERRORIST ATTACKS. WHAT STANDS OUT IN HER MIND? THE HUMANITY AND THE HEROICS.

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GAY>> THE EXTREME LENGTH PEOPLE TOOK TO HELP THEIR FELLOW MAN, FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE OFFICERS THAT MARCHED INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ONLY TO BECOME CASUALTIES THEMSELVES. LENORE REMEMBERS A SIMILAR SITUATION IN PEARL HARBOR. HOW SERVICEMEN JUMPED OUT OF THEIR BEDS TO HELP THEIR COMRADES UNDER ATTACK.

LENORE RICKERT>> THEY JUST CLIMBED OUT OF BED. AS I SAID, I HAD EYE, EAR, NOSE AND THROAT. THOSE WERE PEOPLE THAT COULD GET OUT OF BED. THERE WAS ONLY ONE PATIENT IN MY WARD THAT COULDN'T GET OUT OF BED. HE'D HAD DOUBLE EYE SURGERY THE DAY BEFORE THE WAR.

GAY>> YOUR PATIENTS GOT OUT OF BED TO GO HELP?

LENORE RICKERT>> YES, ABSOLUTELY. RIGHT LIKE THAT. THEY WERE GONE. THERE WASN'T A PERSON IN BED EXCEPT THIS ONE AND HE'D HAD DOUBLE EYE SURGERY, SO HIS EYES WERE COVERED. HE PULLED THE SPREAD OFF OF HIS BED, PUT IT UNDERNEATH AND CRAWLED UNDERNEATH SO HIS BED WOULD BE AVAILABLE.

GAY>> LENORE SAYS THE TERRORIST ATTACK WILL CHANGE AMERICANS JUST AS PEARL HARBOR DID, BUT THIS WAS WORSE. IT WAS ON HOME SOIL AND AMERICANS WILL NOW HAVE TO LIVE WITH FEARS OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE LIVED WITH FOR GENERATIONS. THIS SADDENS LENORE, BUT SHE SAYS WE WILL PREVAIL JUST AS WE DID BACK THEN.

GAY>> WHAT DO YOU THINK GOING THROUGH THE WAR DID FOR YOUR GENERATION?

LENORE RICKERT>> OH, I THINK IT GAVE THEM NEW VALUES, DEFINITELY. SELF-VALUES AS MUCH AS ANYTHING. IF THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO AND CAME THROUGH OKAY, I'M SURE THAT THEIR SELF-CONFIDENCE HAS BECOME AN ITEM IN THEIR LIVES. I DON'T THINK THEY NEED TO APOLOGIZE FOR ANYTHING.

GAY>> AS HORRIFIC AND HEART-WRENCHING THESE ATTACKS ARE, LENORE HAS NOT LOST HER DEEP FAITH IN PEOPLE. IT'S BEEN RENEWED.

LENORE RICKERT>> IT WAS IN A WAY HORRIBLE, BUT IN ANOTHER WAY IT WAS WONDERFUL, IN THAT AS I SAY I DON'T FEAR EMERGENCIES ANY MORE AT ALL. IF WE HAVE ONE, THE BEST IN PEOPLE COME OUT. PEOPLE THAT YOU WOULD NOT EXPECT TO RISE ABOVE AND THINK OF OTHER PEOPLE BESIDES THEMSELVES WILL DO IT. GUARANTEE IT.

GAY>> IN LAGUNA WOODS, GAY YEE FOR LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> LENORA RICKERT STILL PUTS HERE MEDICAL TRAINING TO GOOD USE AS AN EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS ORGANIZER IN LAGUNA WOODS.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING. DON'T FORGET TO STAY TUNED FOR A SPECIAL HUELL HOWSER. GOOD NIGHT.

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