9/19/01

LC010919

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> IT'S BEEN SAID THAT AMERICA WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AFTER LAST WEEK'S DEADLY TERRORIST ATTACKS, BUT HOW HAS THE CRISIS CHANGED SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AND HOW HAS IT CHANGED EACH OF US? TONIGHT WE'LL FIND OUT FROM TWO EXPERTS WHO'VE TRIED TO MEASURE THE IMPACT ON AMERICA'S CHARACTER.

VAL>> AND SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID THE ATTACKS LOOKED LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF A MOVIE. WELL, TONIGHT YOU'LL MEET A LEADING PRODUCER-DIRECTOR. HIS FILM ABOUT TERRORISM IN NEW YORK WAS ALL TOO SIMILAR TO THE REAL THING.

ED ZWICK>> I HAD HAD THE EXPERIENCE IN THE RESEARCH FOR THE MOVIE OF SPENDING A GOOD DEAL OF TIME WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND MANY FROM THE JOINT TERRORISM TASKFORCE WHO LOOKED UPON THESE EVENTS WITH A CERTAIN TRAGIC INEVITABILITY. THEY BELIEVED THAT IT WAS NOT A QUESTION OF IT WOULD HAPPEN, BUT WHEN AND AT WHAT SCALE. THE REMARKABLE THING AND THE TRAGIC THING IS THAT NONE OF US COULD HAVE IMAGINED THE SCALE.

JESS>> THERE HAS BEEN OTHER NEWS BEYOND THOSE TRAGIC EVENTS BACK EAST AND TONIGHT WE'LL LOOK AT A FEW OF THOSE STORIES, INCLUDING CALIFORNIA'S NEW CRACKDOWN ON TELEMARKETERS.

SEYMOUR ROBINSON>> I FEEL LIKE TELLING THEM, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE INVADING MY HOME, YOU'RE INVADING MY PRIVACY. YOU GOT NO RIGHT TO DO THIS THING.

JESS>> LAWMAKERS HAVE PASSED THE "DON'T CALL ME" BILL, SO WHAT HAPPENS THE NEXT TIME A TELEMARKETER CALLS YOU. WE'LL FIND OUT.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

EVEN AS THE COUNTRY TRIES TO COME TO GRIPS WITH WHAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK, EXPERTS TELL US THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE AMERICA COULD BE HIT ONCE AGAIN. AND LIKE ALL BIG CITIES, LOS ANGELES IS A POSSIBLE TARGET.

VAL>> THE PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO PREPARE THE COUNTRY FOR A PROLONGED WAR ON TERRORISM, ONE THAT COULD CLAIM ADDITIONAL AMERICAN CASUALTIES IN SPITE OF OUR BEST SECURITY PRECAUTIONS. WE'RE TOLD THAT, TO AVOID ANOTHER DEADLY DAY, WE MAY HAVE TO ACCEPT SOME MAJOR CHANGES IN THE WAY WE LIVE, BUT WHAT WILL THOSE CHANGES DO TO THE AMERICAN PSYCHE?

JESS>> TONIGHT WE'VE INVITED TWO PEOPLE TO DISCUSS THAT VERY QUESTION. FERNANDO GUERRA IS DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF LOS ANGELES. IT'S BASED AT LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY. AND MICHAEL GELLERT HAS WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED "THE FATE OF AMERICA". IT EXAMINES THE TOLL THAT TERRORISM CAN TAKE ON OUR NATIONAL CHARACTER.

INDEED, HAS OUR NATIONAL CHARACTER BEEN UP TO THIS KIND OF ATTACK?

MICHAEL GELLERT>> WELL, IN THE PAST, WE'VE HAD SIMILAR KINDS OF CRISES THAT TESTED THE AMERICAN CHARACTER AND THIS ONE IS NOT SO DIFFERENT IN THAT REGARD. SOME PEOPLE HAVE COMPARED THIS TO PEARL HARBOR, WE'VE HAD TWO WORLD WARS IN THIS CENTURY, WE HAD THE CIVIL WAR. NATIONAL CHARACTER IS SOMETHING THAT UNFOLDS OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. OUR CHARACTER HAS HAD THESE KINDS OF CHALLENGES BEFORE.

JESS>> AND WE'RE UP TO IT?

MICHAEL GELLERT>> I CERTAINLY HOPE SO, AND EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED IN NEW YORK CITY AND NATIONWIDE, ALL GOOD THINGS THAT HAVE COME OUT OF THIS, SHOW THAT WE'RE UP TO IT.

VAL>> BUT THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES, WHICH WE'LL GET TO IN JUST A MOMENT.

FERNANDO, ON A MORE PHYSICAL PLANE, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF LOS ANGELES BEING A TARGET AND HOW DO YOU SIZE SOMETHING LIKE THAT UP?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WELL, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SIZE UP AND IT'S ALL CONJECTURE, BUT I WOULD THINK THAT LOS ANGELES WOULD BE A TARGET. I MEAN, AFTER NEW YORK, WASHINGTON, D.C., YOU THINK OF LOS ANGELES. WHY WAS NEW YORK CHOSEN? BECAUSE IT WAS A FINANCIAL COMMERCIAL CAPITOL OF AMERICA. WHY WAS D.C. CHOSEN? BECAUSE IT'S THE POLITICAL CAPITOL OF AMERICA. WHY WOULD L.A. BE A TARGET? BECAUSE IT IS THE CULTURAL ENTERTAINMENT CAPITOL OF AMERICA AND CERTAINLY IT HAS A LOT OF SYMBOLIC VALUE TO HIT, UNFORTUNATELY. IT IS WHAT ATTRACTS US TO L.A. THAT WOULD ALSO ATTRACT TERRORISTS.

VAL>> BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY WE DON'T HAVE THE BIG SYMBOLS LIKE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING. WHAT WOULD THEY ATTACK HERE?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WELL, ONE THING THAT ATTACK LAST WEEK SHOWED WAS THAT MULTIPLE TARGETS COULD BE ATTACKED AT THE SAME TIME, SO I'VE HEARD PEOPLE MAKE REFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT THE HOLLYWOOD SIGN, SO WHAT? OR, YOU KNOW, THE CAPITAL RECORDS BUILDING OR ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENCE THAT MAY NOT HAVE VALUE. BUT YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN D.C. AND NEW YORK, YOU COULD AT ONE POINT DESTROY THE HOLLYWOOD SIGN AND HIT SOMEPLACE WHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE. UNFORTUNATELY, YOU HATE TO TALK THIS WAY, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT THESE TYPES OF THINGS.

JESS>> SO WE'RE LOOKING AT STAPLES CENTER, THE ROSE BOWL AND PLACES WHERE HUGE CROWDS GATHER?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> ABSOLUTELY. AND TALK ABOUT THE ROSE BOWL. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT COLLEGE FOOTBALL, YOU TALK ABOUT THAT GAME IN PARTICULAR. SO NOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE EXTRA SECURITY MEASURES. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ASKED TO GET TO GAMES EARLIER. JUST THIS WEEK, I WENT TO THE DODGER GAME AND IT TOOK US LONGER TO GET IN THAN IT HAD IN THE PREVIOUS FOUR OR FIVE TIMES THAT WE HAVE BEEN THIS SEASON, ALL BECAUSE OF SECURITY MEASURES.

VAL>> MR. GELLERT, YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT THE IDEA OF HEROISM IN THE AMERICAN PSYCHE. YOU SEEM TO INDICATE THAT THAT'S PART OF OUR PROBLEM. ELABORATE ON THAT, IF YOU WOULD.

MICHAEL GELLERT>> HEROISM IS A NATURAL STRENGTH IN THE AMERICAN CHARACTER, BUT THE TIMES WE'RE LIVING IN SUGGEST THAT WE'RE REALLY GOING THROUGH A LOT OF CHANGES WITH REGARD TO OUR IDEA OF WHAT THE HERO IS AND WHAT A HEROIC VALUE IS. WE'VE HAD, THROUGH THE SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES, THE LAST FIFTY YEARS, A KIND OF A CRISIS ABOUT WHAT REALLY CAPTURES THE NOTION OF GREATNESS. WE'VE HAD THE COWBOY, WE'VE HAD THE SOLDIER, BUT WE DON'T LIVE IN THE SAME WORLD ANYMORE AND THIS PARTICULAR CRISIS IS BRINGING UP A VERY STRONG AND TRADITIONAL HEROIC RESPONSE THAT --

VAL>> -- IT IS BRINGING OUT THE SORT OF COWBOY, MACHO SOLDIER FEELING.

MICHAEL GELLERT>> IT IS, IT IS. YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR PEOPLE SAYING LET'S RIGHT AWAY RETALIATE, LET'S GO INTO AFGHANISTAN, LET'S LEVEL THEM. BUT THIS IS NOT THE WORLD WE LIVE IN ANYMORE. ALTHOUGH A STRONG ACTION IS OBVIOUSLY NEEDED FOR A CRISIS LIKE THIS, WE ALSO NEED TO HAVE A MORE CONTEMPLATIVE INTROSPECTIVE QUESTIONING ATTITUDE. SO THIS IS THE TRANSITION THAT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH AND THAT EVERYTHING OUR CULTURE POINTS TO.

JESS>> BUT DON'T YOU ALSO SUGGEST THAT OUR CURRENT HEROES PRIOR TO THIS EVENT DIDN'T QUITE MEASURE UP TO JEFFERSON AND WASHINGTON?

MICHAEL GELLERT>> YES.

JESS>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPORTS HEROES --

VAL>> -- CELEBRITIES.

JESS>> -- RAP ARTISTS.

MICHAEL GELLERT>> WELL, THE ORIGINAL AMERICAN HEROES, THE FOUNDING FATHERS, WERE MEN OF HIGH CULTURE, MEN OF CIVILIZATION. THEIR GOAL WAS TO DEVELOP AN ENLIGHTENED CITIZENRY, TO MAKE THE INDIVIDUAL SOMEBODY WHO LIVED BY VALUES, THE FRANKLIN'S VIRTUES. NOW CENTURIES HAVE CONTINUED AND WE DEVELOPED OURSELVES AS A STRONG ECONOMIC POWER AND INDUSTRIAL POWER.

WHAT YOU FIND IS A KIND OF COMFORT THAT COMES FROM AFFLUENCE AND WE BEGIN TO LOSE SIGHT OF WHERE WE CAME FROM. THEN YOU GET THE RUSHING IN FROM THAT WHOLE PERIOD OF EXPANSIONISM, THE COWBOY, THE DEVELOPER, THE INDUSTRIAL BARONS, THE SOLDIER, AND NOW WE'RE SORT OF IN A KIND OF AMNESIA ABOUT THE KIND OF HEROES THAT WE REALLY HAD IN THIS COUNTRY ONCE UPON A TIME.

JESS>> BUT HAVEN'T WE SEEN HEROES DEVELOPING OUT OF THIS TRAGEDY, LOOKING AT THE FIREMEN AND THE POLICEMEN, MANY OF WHOM WERE SACRIFICED, BUT THOSE WHO ARE IN THERE NOW WORKING TO TRY TO RESCUE THAT LAST PERSON WHO MIGHT STILL BE ALIVE. WE'RE SEEING HEROICS.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> UNFORTUNATELY, WE NEED AN EVENT LIKE THIS TO HAVE OUR HEROES EMERGE, TO HAVE OUR NATIONAL CHARACTER EMERGE. I MEAN, I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW INCREDIBLY PROUD IT IS TO SEE THE REACTION OF THE NEW YORKERS. I THINK THIS PAST WEEK, ALL OF US HAVE BEEN NEW YORKERS. IT'S JUST BEEN AN INCREDIBLE WAY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THEM.

MY MAJOR CONCERN IS, I HAVE NO PROBLEM AND I BELIEVE AMERICANS WILL MEET THE CHALLENGE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS, MAYBE A YEAR. WHAT I REALLY WORRY ABOUT IS THAT SUSTAINED EFFORT THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE WITHOUT THAT VERY VISIBLE VILLAIN THAT YOU CAN SEE ON A DAY-TO-DAY REPORT. THAT SUSTAINED MOBILIZATION OF AMERICA DURING WORLD WAR II WAS THAT VILLAIN, THAT TARGET, WHETHER IT WAS, YOU KNOW, NORTH AFRICA, ITALY, NORMANDY, BERLIN, IT WAS THERE. YOU COULD SEE IT. YOU COULD REPORT ON IT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT AND IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN THAT MOBILIZATION OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEARS.

VAL>> THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING THING. HOW DOES THE AMERICAN PSYCHE MOBILIZE ITSELF WHEN THERE ISN'T A VISIBLE ENEMY?

MICHAEL GELLERT>> THAT'S THE CRISIS WE'RE FACING AND IT'S JUST BEING BROUGHT OUT BY THIS. WE ARE A VERY ACTION-ORIENTED NATION --

VAL>> -- WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. WE CAN'T STAND NOT DOING ANYTHING.

MICHAEL GELLERT>> WE'RE DOERS, EXACTLY, CAN-DO PEOPLE. THIS IS GOING TO REQUIRE A LONG HAUL AND A PERIOD OF CULTIVATING OUR ATTENTION, FOCUSING OUR PUBLIC DISCOURSE ON THE THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT. THE FATE OF AMERICA VERY MUCH DOES DEPEND ON HOW NOT ONLY DO WE RESPOND TO THIS, BECAUSE THIS CRISIS HOPEFULLY WILL GET CONTAINED, BUT HOW DO WE ALSO RESPOND TO THE PROBLEMS AFFECTING US ON AN INNER LEVEL? THESE TWO ARE RELATED. THE INNER AND THE OUTER, THE DOMESTIC AND THE INTERNATIONAL. ONE HAS SET THE STAGE FOR THE OTHER.

VAL>> VERY MUCH SO, BECAUSE I THINK THAT VIGILANCE THAT YOU'RE CALLING FOR DAY TO DAY WILL NOT BE THERE IF WE DON'T HAVE THE PROPER MENTALITY.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WAITING AN EXTRA HOUR OR TWO AT THE AIRPORT, AN EXTRA TWENTY MINUTES TO GET INTO A DODGER GAME THIS SEASON. BUT NEXT YEAR? HOW LONG ARE WE WILLING TO PUT UP WITH THAT? ASK THE QUESTION.

JESS>> WE TALKED ABOUT HEROICS AND WE'VE ALL ADMIRED THE WAY NEW YORKERS HAVE RESPONDED. YOU'VE STUDIED LOS ANGELES VERY CAREFULLY. WOULD WE HAVE RESPONDED WITH EQUAL STRENGTH?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT GUESSWORK. I CAN SAY WITHOUT A DOUBT, ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD OUR CRISES OURSELVES, WHETHER IT WAS THE NORTHRIDGE EARTHQUAKE OR THE RIOTS. SURE, THOSE WERE, TO SOME EXTENT, THE RIOTS ESPECIALLY, SELF-INDUCED, BUT THE RESPONSE AFTERWARDS OF TWO OR THREE DAYS WHERE PEOPLE MOBILIZED.

THE QUESTION BECOMES NOW, WHAT THEN DID GOVERNMENT DO OR THE OTHER INSTITUTIONS AND WHERE WERE THEY? PART OF IT WAS LET'S JUST GET OVER THIS SHORT-TERM AND THEN NOT DEAL WITH IT ANYMORE. YOU KNOW, WE HARDLY TALK ABOUT WHAT CITY, COUNTY OR SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE DOING --

JESS>> -- BUT TERRORISM, YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> EXACTLY, AND THAT'S A MAJOR DIFFERENCE.

VAL>> FERNANDO GUERRA FROM LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY, THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND MICHAEL GELLERT. THE NAME OF YOUR BOOK, AGAIN, IS "THE FATE OF AMERICA". THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

COMING UP, A THREE-YEAR-OLD MOVIE THAT LOOKS AS THOUGH IT WAS RIPPED FROM TODAY'S HEADLINES. WE'LL TALK WITH THE MAN WHO MADE THE FILM.

JESS>> WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU HOW THE SAD EVENTS OF RECENT DAYS MAY CHANGE THE KINDS OF THINGS YOU'LL SEE IN MOVIES AND ON TELEVISION.

VAL>> BUT TONIGHT WE WANT TO FOCUS ON A FILM THAT CAME OUT THREE YEARS AGO. IT'S A DEPICTION OF A SERIES OF TERRORIST ATTACKS IN NEW YORK AND IT HAS AN OMINOUS RING OF AUTHENTICITY. IT'S CALLED "THE SIEGE" AND IT FOCUSES ON WHAT HAPPENS AFTER ARAB TERRORISTS STRIKE AT THE HEART OF MANHATTAN. OF PARTICULAR INTEREST IS HOW INNOCENT ARAB-AMERICANS ARE ROUNDED UP IN THE WAKE OF THOSE ATTACKS. THE PRODUCER AND DIRECTOR OF "THE SIEGE" WAS ED ZWICK. I SPOKE WITH HIM ABOUT HIS FILM AND LAST WEEK'S REAL-LIFE ATTACKS.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> EDWARD ZWICK, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT. WE JUST SAW A CLIP FROM YOUR MOVIE, "THE SIEGE", WHICH CAME OUT THREE YEARS AGO. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CONTROVERSY. REMIND PEOPLE OF THE CONTROVERSY THAT REVOLVED AROUND THAT MOVIE AT THE TIME.

ED ZWICK>> WELL, THERE WERE THOSE WHO TOOK EXCEPTION TO THE PORTRAYAL OF RADICAL ISLAM MAKING AN ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES. I HAD HAD THE EXPERIENCE IN THE RESEARCH FOR THE MOVIE OF SPENDING A GOOD DEAL OF TIME WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND MANY FROM THE JOINT TERRORISM TASKFORCE, WHO LOOKED UPON THESE EVENTS WITH A CERTAIN TRAGIC INEVITABILITY. THEY BELIEVE THAT IT WAS NOT A QUESTION OF IF IT WOULD HAPPEN, BUT WHEN AND AT WHAT SCALE. THE REMARKABLE THING AND THE TRAGIC THING IS THAT NONE OF US COULD HAVE IMAGINED THE SCALE.

VAL>> WHAT STRUCK ME IS THAT THE CLIP THAT WE SAW OF THE MOVIE LITERALLY COULD HAVE BEEN THE NEWS. THE PHRASING WAS THE SAME, THE KIND OF THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING.

ED ZWICK>> YOU CAN ALWAYS ANTICIPATE THAT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GRANDSTAND, A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO STAKE OUT THEIR POSITIONS POLITICALLY. THEY'RE GOING TO USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO, YOU KNOW, SABER-RATTLE, BUT OUR INTENTION, I THINK, WAS TO TRY TO TALK ABOUT THE DENIAL THAT WE'VE ALL LIVED UNDER AND THE REALITIES THAT WE'RE NOW ALL GOING TO HAVE TO FACE.

VAL>> YOU MEAN YOUR INTENTION IN MAKING THE MOVIE THREE YEARS AGO?

ED ZWICK>> IN MAKING THE MOVIE. ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE MOVIE, IT'S VERY MUCH ABOUT WHAT CIVIL LIBERTIES ARE WE PREPARED TO SACRIFICE FOR THE SAKE OF PROSECUTING A WAR AN UNSEEN ENEMY? ARE WE WILLING TO ABNEGATE CERTAIN PRIVILEGES AND RIGHTS? PRIVACY? SPEECH? WHATEVER? ASSEMBLY? FOR THE SAKE OF ACTUALLY DEALING WITH SOMETHING THAT'S VERY PERNICIOUS AND HAS BEEN THE PLAGUE OF EVERY OTHER COUNTRY BUT AMERICA FOR THE LAST THIRTY YEARS?

VAL>> SO WHAT YOU DEALT WITH IN FICTION WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH IN REAL LIFE?

ED ZWICK>> I'M AFRAID SO.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> DO YOU FEEL THAT MOVIES THAT ARE USING TERRORISTS AS THE VILLAINS, AND THERE'S MANY, MANY OF THEM OUT, SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN PULLED RECENTLY, ARE THEY POSITIVE INFLUENCE, ARE THEY NEGATIVE INFLUENCE? DOES IT DEPEND ON THE PARTICULAR PLOT OF THE MOVIE? HOW DO WE JUDGE THESE?

ED ZWICK>> WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK IT HAS ANY ROLE ON THE ACTUAL EVENTS BETWEEN NATIONS, BUT I THINK THOSE ARAB-AMERICANS IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE A LEGITIMATE CASE WHEN THEY SUGGEST THAT THEY'VE BEEN DEMONIZED. I THINK IT'S --

VAL>> -- BY HOLLYWOOD?

ED ZWICK>> YEAH. I THINK IT'S TOO EASY OFTEN TO FIND A VILLAIN OUT OF THE HEADLINES AND TO THEN REPEAT THAT VILLAINY AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY, AMERICA HAS ALWAYS LOOKED TO SCAPEGOAT SOMEONE AS THE BOOGIE MAN.

VAL>> WELL, IF THE ARAB TERRORIST IS NOW THE FAVORITE VILLAIN OF HOLLYWOOD, YOU'RE SAYING THAT MAY IN FACT PREJUDICE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AGAINST ARAB-AMERICANS?

ED ZWICK>> WELL, I THINK AFTER THIS EVENT, I THINK, BASED ON WHAT I'VE HEARD OF CERTAIN DEMURRAL TO RELEASE MOVIES, THERE WILL BE SOME GREATER HESITANCY AND SENSITIVITY TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT MAY SEEM TOO PAINFUL AND TO REFLECT TOO MUCH OF WHAT'S JUST HAPPENED.

VAL>> A HESITANCY TO USE ARAB TERRORISTS?

ED ZWICK>> YEAH. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A TRADITION IN THE MOST SIMPLISTIC OF ACTION MOVIES FOR THERE TO BE SOME HORRIBLE VILLAIN. AND SOME FILMMAKERS, I THINK, OF LESSER ABILITY TEND TO LOOK AT THE EASIEST AND THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE AND THAT'S TO CHOOSE THE ONE THAT'S MOST IN THE HEADLINES.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS THE BASIS OF SOME OF THE CONTROVERSY ABOUT OUR FILM BECAUSE INDEED YOU COULD LOOK AT IT SIMPLISTICALLY AND SAY WE WERE DOING THAT. I THINK WE WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS TO TRY TO GIVE A VERY COMPLEX PORTRAIT OF, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARAB-AMERICANS WHO WERE IN FACT IN DEFENSE OF THE CONSTITUTION AND THE COUNTRY, ONE OF WHOM WAS A FEDERAL AGENT IN THE MOVIE.

[FILM CLIP]

ED ZWICK>> IT'S A VERY PERNICIOUS SITUATION BECAUSE YOU ALSO WANT TO TELL THE TRUTH. YOU WANT TO SAY THAT THERE IS SUCH A THING AS RADICAL ISLAM. IT IS A PROBLEM. IT IS DIFFERENTIATED FROM, YOU KNOW, THE TWENTY MILLION MUSLIMS IN AMERICA WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, LAW-ABIDING, BUT THAT'S THE ISSUE. THOSE PEOPLE IN A HELLACIOUS SITUATION AND THOSE OF US HAVING TO RECONCILE THIS COUNTRY BEING MADE UP OF SO MANY DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES, IN THIS CASE ONE THAT'S --

VAL>> -- BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT IT REALLY -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO, FOR EXAMPLE, USE AN ARAB TERRORIST AS THE VILLAIN IN THE MOVIE, THAT IT HELPS, YOU'RE SAYING, TO ALSO PORTRAY THE COMPLEXITY OF THE ARAB-AMERICAN COMMUNITY NOT JUST TO THE BLACK AND WHITE CARDBOARD CUTOUT?

ED ZWICK>> WELL, OF COURSE, NO COMMUNITY IS A MONOLITH. IN THIS CASE, IT HAS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS IS A VERY RADICAL FRINGE. THIS IS NOT EVEN REFLECTION OF A NATION.

VAL>> BUT IT'S UP TO, SAY, A FILMMAKER TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE, YES? AND TO SAY THIS IS AN EXTREME FRINGE, THIS IS NOT ALL OF --

ED ZWICK>> -- YES. THE HARD THING, AND I INCLUDE MYSELF, IT'S VERY HARD BECAUSE FILM IS FINALLY VERY OVER-SIMPLIFIED IN TWO HOURS. HOW COMPLEX A POLITICAL DISCUSSION CAN YOU GIVE? HOW DIMENSIONAL A PORTRAIT CAN YOU PROVIDE --

VAL>> -- AND STILL DO WHAT YOU MAINLY WANT TO DO, WHICH IS ENTERTAIN.

ED ZWICK>> -- AND STILL BRING PEOPLE INTO THE THEATERS AND SIT IN THE SEATS, AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.

VAL>> THAT IS THE CHALLENGE.

ED ZWICK>> YOU BET.

VAL>> EDWARD ZWICK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS.

ED ZWICK>> IT'S MY PLEASURE. THANK YOU.

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JESS>> WHILE WE'VE ALL BEEN FOCUSING ON THE TERRORIST CRISIS, A FEW OTHER THINGS HAVE BEEN TAKING PLACE IN CALIFORNIA. ONE OF THEM IS THE FATE OF THE SO-CALLED EDISON BAILOUT. STATE LAWMAKERS ADJOURNED OVER THE WEEKEND WITHOUT AGREEING TO A SOLUTION TO THE UTILITY'S FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. GOVERNOR DAVIS HAD URGED THEM TO PASS LEGISLATION THAT WOULD HELP SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON AVOID BANKRUPTCY, BUT THAT PLAN FELL APART IN THE SENATE.

NOW EDISON SAYS IT MAY GO BANKRUPT BEFORE THE MONTH IS OUT. AS OF NOW, STATE LAWMAKERS STILL ARE NOT CERTAIN WHAT COMES NEXT. THE GOVERNOR HAS TALKED ABOUT CALLING THEM BACK TO SACRAMENTO FOR A SPECIAL SESSION DEVOTED SOLELY TO THE EDISON ISSUE. IN THE MEANTIME, AN EDISON OFFICIAL TOLD US THE UTILITY IS COUNTING ITS MONEY AND COUNTING THE DAYS UNTIL IT RUNS OUT.

VAL>> AND BEFORE STATE LAWMAKERS LEFT SACRAMENTO, THEY DID PASS ONE BIT OF LEGISLATION THAT MAY BRING SOME CHEERS. IT CRACKS DOWN ON TELEMARKETERS AND LIMITS SOME OF THOSE UNWANTED CALLS WE ALL GET. BUT AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, DON'T EXPECT THE PHONE TO STOP RINGING COMPLETELY.

[FILM CLIP]

PHILIP>> BILL AND SHIRLENE BOWER OWN MARKETEERS, A SMALL TELEMARKETING BUSINESS IN LAGUNA NIGUEL. SHIRLENE STARTED THE COMPANY BY HERSELF LITERALLY FROM SCRATCH AND THE BOWERS NOW EMPLOY COLLEGE STUDENTS AND OTHER ENTRY-LEVEL WORKERS.

SHIRLENE O'BRIEN BOWER>> I STARTED THIS BUSINESS FIFTEEN YEARS AGO OUT OF MY HOME WITH VERY LITTLE FUNDING, NONE AT ALL. I NOW HAVE SIX STATIONS. I'M PROVIDING JOBS WITH BETTER WAGES THAN WHAT SOME PEOPLE AT THOSE SKILL LEVELS CAN GET IN ANY OTHER INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW.

PHILIP>> BUT TELEMARKETERS NOW COMPLAIN THEY COULD SUFFER BECAUSE OF NEW LEGISLATION JUST PASSED BY CALIFORNIA LAWMAKERS. IT ALLOWS CONSUMERS TO PUT THEIR NAMES ON A "DON'T CALL" LIST AT A COST OF ONE DOLLAR EVERY THREE YEARS. EVEN THOUGH THE LEGISLATION COULD HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON THEIR BUSINESS, THE BOWERS SAY IT'S FAIR ENOUGH TO GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SAY NO TO TELEMARKETERS.

BILL BOWER>> AND IF SOMEBODY INDICATES TO US THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE CALLED, WE DON'T WANT TO WASTE OUR TIME CALLING SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T WANT TO BE CALLED. WHO WOULD DO THAT? THAT'S A WASTE OF ENERGY.

PHILIP>> BUT THAT SAID, THE BOWERS ARE STILL STRONGLY OPPOSED TO THE LAW MAINLY FOR WHAT IT REPRESENTS.

BILL BOWER>> IT LOOKS TO ME, YOU KNOW, AS IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO LIMIT COMPETITION SEVERELY. PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT THE FACT THAT EVERY JOB IN AMERICA REALLY RELIES ON SALES, YOU KNOW? IF SOMETHING DOESN'T GET SOLD, NOBODY WORKS.

PHILIP>> TELEMARKETERS SAY IT'S EASY ENOUGH TO BYPASS THE NEW LEGISLATION. THEY CAN SIMPLY TAKE THEIR BUSINESS OUT OF STATE OR EVEN TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.

SHIRLENE O'BRIEN BOWER>> HOW IS THIS GOING TO BE ENFORCED? I CAN GO TO ANOTHER STATE AND MAKE THE PHONE CALLS FROM THERE AND NOT RISK ANY OF THIS, YOU KNOW, SO I COULD DO THAT.

PHILIP>> BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN ARE THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT TELEMARKETERS ARE MORE THAN AN ANNOYANCE OR AN INCONVENIENCE. SEYMOUR ROBINSON SAYS THEY INVADE HIS PRIVACY.

SEYMOUR ROBINSON>> I FEEL LIKE TELLING THEM, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE INVADING MY HOME, YOU'RE INVADING MY PRIVACY. YOU'VE GOT NO RIGHT TO DO THIS THING. BUT THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. MAYBE THIS 771 CAN DO SOME GOOD AND HELP.

PHILIP>> ROBINSON SAYS SENIORS ARE ESPECIALLY GOOD TARGETS FOR TELEMARKETING SCAMS AND HE BELIEVES THAT SB 771 IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

SEYMOUR ROBINSON>> IT'S A GOOD BEGINNING, I THINK. VERY GOOD BEGINNING. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT'S BEING ADOPTED.

PHILIP>> THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THE NEW LEGISLATION. FOR INSTANCE, CHARITIES AND NONPROFITS ARE EXEMPT AND SO ARE POLITICIANS AND POLITICAL ORGANIZATIONS.

SHIRLENE O'BRIEN BOWER>> IT'S ALMOST LAUGHABLE THAT A POLITICIAN WOULD WANT TO START SUCH A STRENUOUS PROGRAM BECAUSE OUR BIGGEST COMPETITION ON THE PHONE ARE POLITICIANS. WHEN MS. FIGUEROA WANTS TO GET ON THE PHONE AND TELL PEOPLE TO GET OUT AND VOTE FOR HER, SHE WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND PEOPLE CAN ANSWER THE PHONE TO HER. BUT SHE'S LIMITING MY ABILITY TO DO THAT. SHE WANTS TO KEEP HER RIGHTS AND LIMIT MINE.

PHILIP>> BUT THOSE SAME POLITICIANS ARE NOW WORKING AT THE DETAILS OF HOW THIS NEW LAW WILL BE IMPLEMENTED. FOR LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, I'M PHILIP BRUCE.

JESS>> AND ONE OF THE KEYS IS THAT THEY CAN SIMPLY MOVE OUT OF STATE AND PLACE ALL THE CALLS THEY WANT TO PLACE.

VAL>> EXACTLY. I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT. I SAID, WELL, WHAT'S TO STOP THIS COMPANY FROM JUST MOVING ACROSS THE BORDER AND CALLING ME ANYWAY. IF ANYTHING, IT MEANS A LOT OF JOB LOSSES IN CALIFORNIA BECAUSE ALL THESE TELEMARKETERS ARE GOING TO GO OUT OF STATE AND STILL CALL US.

JESS>> BUT IT IS A PROBLEM, PARTICULARLY THE TIME OF EVENING WHEN THEY CHOOSE TO CALL, WHICH IS PROBABLY ONE REASON THIS BILL PASSED SO HANDILY IN THE LEGISLATURE.

VAL>> YES. YOU KNOW IT ACTUALLY IS IMPRESSIVE THAT IT PASSED OVERWHELMINGLY IN BOTH HOUSES, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS INTENSE LOBBYING ON THE PART OF THE TELEMARKETING FIRMS AND ALL THESE BUSINESSES THAT HAVE A STAKE IN TELEMARKETING. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIGGEST USERS OF TELEMARKETING IS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, OUR NEWSPAPERS. THEY GET A HUGE NUMBER OF NEW SUBSCRIBERS BY TELEMARKETING, SO THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM NOT TO BE ABLE TO USE THIS TOOL.

JESS>> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, THOUGH, THAT, IF YOU WERE A SUBSCRIBER TO THE LOS ANGELES TIMES OR THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER, THEY CAN STILL CALL YOU?

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS IS, IF YOU ALREADY DO BUSINESS WITH A COMPANY, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO CALL. OF COURSE, IT WAS INTERESTING THAT NONPROFITS WERE EXEMPT. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, KCET CALLS WILL CONTINUE. (LAUGHTER) BUT POLITICIANS EXEMPTED THEMSELVES AS WELL. NOTICE THAT.

JESS>> WELL, THAT'S TO SAVE DEMOCRACY.

VAL>> OH, THAT'S RIGHT, I GUESS BECAUSE THEY WERE FOR A HIGHER CAUSE AS WELL. (LAUGHTER) SO WE'LL SEE HOW IT WILL WORK.

JESS>> YEAH, BUT PLEASE, NOT AT DINNERTIME.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S OUR ONLY REQUEST.

WELL, THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A GOOD EVENING.

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