11/6/01

LC011106

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> WHEN YOU'VE BEEN CALLED A TERRORIST AT A TIME LIKE THIS, IT MIGHT BE PRETTY HARD TO GET A FAIR TRIAL. JUST ASK SARA JANE OLSON WHY SHE PLEADED GUILTY, BUT THEN LATER CLAIMED SHE ISN'T.

SARA JANE OLSON>> MY EMOTIONAL DECISION WAS NOT TO DO THIS, BUT MY DECISION BASED ON MY INTELLIGENCE WAS THAT THIS WAS THE BEST THING TO DO, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS DIFFICULT.

VAL>> AND IS THE LOS ANGELES SCHOOL DISTRICT TOO BIG AND TOO TROUBLED TO REMAIN IN ONE PIECE? TONIGHT VOTERS IN THE CITY OF CARSON ARE ON THE VERGE OF DECIDING WHETHER TO BREAK AWAY FROM THE LAUSD AND, IF CARSON SECEDES, OTHERS MAY FOLLOW SUIT. TONIGHT WE'LL TAKE YOUR CALLS AND WE'LL HEAR FROM A PANEL OF EXPERTS ABOUT THE L.A. SCHOOL DISTRICT'S UNCERTAIN FUTURE.

JESS>> YOU'VE HEARD FROM HIM BEFORE AS HE TRIES TO GET FOOD AND MEDICINE TO NEEDY PEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN. TONIGHT L.A. RELIEF WORKER, ED ARTIS, CHECKS IN AGAIN ON HIS SATELLITE PHONE WITH A PROGRESS REPORT FROM THE AFGHAN FRONTIER.

ED ARTIS>> WE'RE ONLY ABOUT FOURTEEN KILOMETERS FROM THE FRONT. WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE SOME OF THE BOMBING THAT'S GOING ON AND HEAR FIGHTING. THE PEOPLE CROSSING THE BORDER ARE PANIC-STRICKEN IN SOME CASES AND WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND ELDERLY.

JESS>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.


VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

WHEN SARA JANE OLSON CALLS HERSELF A VICTIM OF THE SEPTEMBER TERRORIST ATTACKS, IT MAKES SOME PEOPLE VERY ANGRY. AFTER ALL, OLSON WAS A MEMBER OF THE RADICAL SLA, THE GROUP THAT ROBBED BANKS AND WAGED A DEADLY SHOOTOUT WITH L.A. POLICE, THE SAME GROUP THAT ONCE CLAIMED KIDNAP VICTIM, PATTY HEARST, AS A MEMBER.

VAL>> OLSON IS ACCUSED OF ATTEMPTING TO BLOW UP TWO LAPD PATROL CARS BACK IN 1975. SHE CLAIMS SHE'S INNOCENT AND YET SHE PLED GUILTY. SHE SAYS SHE COULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN A FAIR TRIAL SINCE THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS.

JESS>> RECENTLY OLSON AND HER ATTORNEY, SHAWN CHAPMAN, GAVE AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW TO REPORTER BEVERLY WHITE FROM KNBC TELEVISION. TONIGHT IN SOME EXCERPTS FROM THE CHANNEL FOUR INTERVIEW, OLSON SAYS PROSECUTORS TRIED TO BRAND HER A TERRORIST AND ANY CHANCE FOR A FAIR TRIAL VANISHED WITH THE SEPTEMBER ATTACKS.

SHAWN CHAPMAN>> LAST WEEK, THE D.A.'S FILED A MOTION ASKING JUDGE FIDDLER TO TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE THAT THE SLA WAS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION AND, ALTHOUGH HE DENIED THAT MOTION, IT WAS VERY CLEAR TO US WHAT THE D.A.'S INTENDED TO DO WITH THIS TRIAL. DRAW SOME SORT OF PARALLEL BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE SLA AND THE TERRORISM THAT WE'RE ALL COLLECTIVELY FIGHTING TODAY. IT WAS JUST VERY CLEAR TO US IT WAS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR HER TO GET A FAIR TRIAL.

SARA JANE OLSON>> ALTHOUGH THE D.A.'S HAVE DENIED REPEATEDLY THAT IT'S A POLITICAL TRIAL, I'VE HAD A LOT OF INPUT FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE A GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF THE LEGAL SYSTEM IN CALIFORNIA AND THEY ALL SAY, WELL, IF THIS WERE AN ORDINARY CASE, YOU KNOW, WE COULD SAY THIS, BUT IT'S MOST LIKELY TO HAPPEN AND THIS IS MOST LIKELY TO HAPPEN, BUT IT'S A POLITICAL CASE, SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ON FOREIGN TERRITORY HERE.

JESS>> JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THE OLSON CASE IS ASSOCIATED PRESS SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, LINDA DEUTSCH. LINDA COVERED THE TRIAL OF ANOTHER SLA MEMBER, PATTY HEARST, AND HAS FOLLOWED ALL THE RECENT OLSON PROCEEDINGS. AND LAURIE LEVENSON, A TOP LEGAL SCHOLAR AND PROFESSOR OF LAW AT LOYOLA UNIVERSITY.

LINDA, THIS IS ANOTHER REMARKABLE TURN IN A VERY STRANGE STORY. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS?

LINDA DEUTSCH>> I HAVE NOT, WHICH PROVES THAT NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU COVER THE COURTS, THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A DEFENDANT COME IN, PLEAD GUILTY, WALK OUT IN THE HALLWAY AND TELL REPORTERS, "I DIDN'T DO IT."

VAL>> DID SHE -- WAS THIS NAÏVETÉ?

LINDA DEUTSCH>> I THINK SHE MEANT IT. I THINK SHE DOES NOT BELIEVE SHE DID IT, THAT SHE IS PLEADING IN A CASE BECAUSE IT'S THE PRAGMATIC THING TO DO RIGHT NOW. IT SAVES HER FROM A POTENTIAL LIFE SENTENCE. IT GIVES HER A CHANCE TO MAYBE GET OUT AND BE WITH HER FAMILY AFTER A FEW YEARS.

VAL>> BUT DIDN'T SHE KNOW IT WOULD MESS THINGS UP LEGALLY TO SAY THAT?

LINDA DEUTSCH>> I DON'T THINK SHE KNEW. I DON'T THINK SHE DID.

VAL>> SO THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

LINDA DEUTSCH> SO THEN THE JUDGE SAW HER ON TELEVISION SAYING I PLED TO SOMETHING WHICH I'M NOT GUILTY AND HE SAID WE'D BETTER HAVE A HEARING AND BRING HER IN AND FIND OUT IF SHE IS GUILTY.

VAL>> SO THAT HEARING WAS --

LINDA DEUTSCH>> SO THAT WAS TODAY AND HE DID ALLOW HER PLEA TO STAND, ALTHOUGH SHE DID MAKE A SPEECH IN COURT SAYING THAT SHE DIDN'T PLANT THE BOMBS, SHE DIDN'T MAKE THE BOMBS, SHE DIDN'T POSSESS THE BOMBS, BUT SHE'S GUILTY.

VAL>> OF AIDING AND ABETTING?

LINDA DEUTSCH>> AIDING AND ABETTING.

JESS>> PROFESSOR LEVENSON, IN EFFECT, SHE SORT OF LIMITED HER GUILTY PLEA TODAY IN COURT, DIDN'T SHE?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> WELL, SHE LIMITED THE THEORY BY WHICH SHE WAS GUILTY. I THINK SHE --

JESS>> -- AND THE JUDGE DIDN'T QUESTION THAT?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> NO, BECAUSE FRANKLY THAT IS A LEGAL THEORY. HE QUESTIONED HER AND ADVISED HER, BUT THIS IS HOW THE LAW WORKS. UNDER OUR SYSTEM OF LAWS, IF YOU JOIN A CONSPIRACY, IF YOU WORK WITH OTHERS, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE THE ONE WHO MADE THE BOMB OR PLANTED THE BOMB. EVERYBODY IN THE GROUP IS RESPONSIBLE AND GUILTY.

JESS>> BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION IN SENTENCING?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> I THINK IT WOULD BE, TOGETHER WITH ALL SORTS OF FACTORS. LIKE THE FACT THAT SHE'S BEEN A HOUSEWIFE FOR ALL THESE YEARS, BUT ALSO THE FACTOR THAT SHE WENT OUT THERE AND PROCLAIMED HER INNOCENCE. ALL OF THAT, THE JUDGE WILL TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.

VAL>> SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? WHAT'S HER LIKELY SENTENCE GOING TO BE? WHEN DOES THAT HAPPEN?

LINDA DEUTSCH>> WELL, ON DECEMBER 7, SHE WILL BE IN COURT AND THE JUDGE WILL SAY, "I SENTENCE YOU TO THE TERM PRESCRIBED BY LAW." THAT'S ALL HE CAN SAY. THE TERM PRESCRIBED BY LAW, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN TEN YEARS AND LIFE ON EACH COUNT. SHE PLEADED TO TWO COUNTS.

VAL>> SO SHE COULD GET TWENTY YEARS?

LINDA DEUTSCH>> WELL, SHE DOESN'T GET A FIXED SENTENCE. AND THE ONLY WAY THAT THAT SENTENCE CAN BE EXTENDED IS FOR THE PAROLE BOARD TO CALL WHAT THEY CALL A SPECIAL OFFENDER HEARING AND SOMEHOW CONVENE, HEAR HER CASE, AND DECIDE THEY WANT TO EXTEND IT AND KEEP HER FOR LIFE. IT SEEMS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THEY WILL DO THAT.

VAL>> IN FACT, THE NUMBER THAT KEEPS BEING MENTIONED AS A MORE PROBABLE LENGTH OF HER SENTENCE IS A LITTLE OVER FIVE YEARS.

LINDA DEUTSCH>> THAT'S RIGHT.

LAURIE LEVENSON>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE DEFENSE IS HOPING FOR, THAT, EVEN LESS THAN THAT, FIVE YEARS WOULD BE ON THE OUTSIDE, SHE WOULD GET OUT SOONER AND I THINK THAT'S A LARGE PART OF WHY THEY TOOK THIS PLEA DEAL. SHE DIDN'T WANT TO RISK THAT LIFE SENTENCE.

JESS>> AND THAT WAS A REAL RISK?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S A REAL RISK, BUT IF YOU GO TO TRIAL, ANYTHING CAN COME OUT AT TRIAL. YOUR HISTORY -- DON'T FORGET THE PROSECUTION HERE WAS TRYING TO RAISE THE CARMICHAEL BANK ROBBERY WHERE ONE OF THE CUSTOMERS WAS KILLED. IF THAT TYPE OF EVIDENCE COMES OUT AND IF THAT TAINTS THE DEFENDANT, YOU COULD BE LOOKING AT ANY TYPE OF SENTENCE.

JESS>> SHE COULD STILL BE FACING CHARGES ON THE CARMICHAEL ROBBERY, COULD SHE NOT?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> THAT'S RIGHT. THAT CASE HAS NEVER BEEN RESOLVED, BUT SHE WAS NOT CHARGED WITH THAT AND SHE HASN'T BEEN CHARGED WITH THAT YET. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THOUGHT THAT THE LEADS ON THAT CASE HAVE GONE COLD AND THAT THEY WERE HOPING THAT SHE, BY PLEADING GUILTY, WOULD COOPERATE, BUT SHE HASN'T AGREED TO DO SO.

JESS>> BUT ANY LENIENCY WOULD NOT BE ON THE PART OF THE JUDGE. IT WOULD BE ON THE PART OF THE PAROLE AUTHORITY?

LINDA DEUTSCH>> THAT'S RIGHT. THE JUDGE HAS NO RECOURSE IN THIS. BUT, YOU KNOW, SHE DID FACE A SIGNIFICANT CHANCE OF CONVICTION. AND THE IDEA THAT IT'S BECAUSE OF THE TERRORISM ATTACKS IS NOT THAT FAR-FETCHED. TONY SERRA SAID IT TODAY THAT --

JESS>> -- BUT THE JUDGE REFUSED TO DELAY THE TRIAL THAT MADE --

LAURIE LEVENSON>> -- BUT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF THE DISADVANTAGES SHE FACED IF SHE WENT TO TRIAL NOW, WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT, IN PART, IT WAS THE DEFENSE CONSTANTLY SEEKING DELAYS THAT PUT THEM INTO THIS SITUATION. I MEAN, IF THEY HAD GONE TO TRIAL VERY EARLY ON WHERE PEOPLE HAD SAID WHY ARE WE BOTHERING OR EVEN DURING THE RAMPART SCANDAL WHEN THE POLICE WERE NOT HEROES, SHE WOULD BE FACING A VERY DIFFERENT TRIAL.

LINDA DEUTSCH>> THAT'S RIGHT. SHE WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT TRIAL. TONY SERRA SAID TODAY --

VAL>> -- AND HE IS -- REMIND PEOPLE WHO HE IS.

LINDA DEUTSCH>> TONY SERRA IS THE LAWYER WHO WAS DEFENDING HER FROM NORTHERN CALIFORNIA. HE SAID TODAY, AFTERWARDS, "THIS WAS A WINNABLE CASE." HE SAID, "I'M VERY FRUSTRATED BECAUSE, BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11, WE COULD HAVE WON, AND AFTER SEPTEMBER 11", HE SAID, "WE WERE FACING A LYNCH MOB."

JESS>> THE JUDGE, WHEN HE WAS CLEARLY ANGRY OVER HER PLEADING GUILTY, THEN GOING OUTSIDE AND SAYING I'M NOT GUILTY, COULD HAVE BROUGHT HER TO TRIAL, COULDN'T HE?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> WELL, I THINK WHAT THE JUDGE COULD HAVE DONE IS INVALIDATE THE GUILTY PLEA. WHAT THE JUDGE DID TODAY, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WAS MAKE SURE IT WAS REALLY CLEAR ON THE RECORD THAT SHE UNDERSTOOD WHAT SHE WAS PLEADING TO, THAT SHE VOLUNTARILY ENTERED THIS PLEA, THAT THERE WAS A FACTUAL BASIS FOR IT. AND IF HE HAD NOT FOUND THOSE THINGS, THIS PLEA COULD HAVE GONE AWAY AND, OF COURSE, THAT WOULD HAVE LED TO A TRIAL.

JESS>> AND SHE DIDN'T GO OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM TODAY AND SAY, "BUT I'M NOT REALLY GUILTY." (LAUGHTER)

LINDA DEUTSCH>> SHE SAID NOTHING TODAY. (LAUGHTER) SHE WAS TOLD TO SAY NOTHING TODAY.

VAL>> DO YOU THINK THAT -- IS THIS THE ONLY CASE THAT'S BEING EFFECTED BY THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS? IT HAS SUCH AN AMAZING --

LINDA DEUTSCH>> -- OH, ABSOLUTELY NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT. THERE HAVE ALREADY BEEN CASES PUT ON HOLD BECAUSE THE DEFENDANTS ARE MIDDLE EASTERN. THERE ARE CASES WHERE THE LAWYERS ARE SAYING THEY HAVE TO HAVE A DELAY BECAUSE THE DEFENDANTS ARE, YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAY ACCUSED OF TERRORISM. A LOT OF LAWYERS ARE FACING THIS IN JURY SELECTION. THE JURORS NOW BELIEVE THAT POLICE ARE ABSOLUTE HEROES. THEY ARE DEIFIED. AND HOW DO YOU GO INTO A TRIAL WHERE PERHAPS YOU'RE GOING TO CALL A POLICEMAN TO THE STAND AND TRY TO SHOW HE'S A LIAR? EVERYBODY IS SAYING WE LOVE THE POLICE. WE WANT THEM TO PROTECT US. YOU KNOW, WE NEED THEM.

VAL>> THAT IS FASCINATING. UNEXPECTED RAMIFICATIONS.

LINDA DEUTSCH>> YES.

VAL>> LINDA DEUTSCH FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND LAURIE LEVENSON FROM LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LINDA DEUTSCH>> THANK YOU.

LAURIE LEVENSON>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, HOW MUCH GENEROSITY IS TOO MUCH? WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE SEEMINGLY ENDLESS FLOW OF CASH FOR VICTIMS OF THE SEPTEMBER TERRORIST ATTACKS.

>> I HAD FIVE DOLLARS AND I GAVE IT TO THE NEW YORK PEOPLE AND THEY SENT IT TO THEM AND I GAVE IT TO THEM.

GAY YEE>> AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MONEY WILL DO?

>> IT WOULD LET THEM BE HAPPY.

JESS>> LOS ANGELES IS THE SECOND LARGEST SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE COUNTRY, BUT ITS FATE MAY BE RIDING ON A LITTLE NOTED ELECTION IN THE CITY OF CARSON. TONIGHT VOTERS THERE WILL DECIDE WHETHER CARSON SHOULD BREAK AWAY FROM THE LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT. THE RESULTS ARE BEING WATCHED VERY CLOSELY BY OTHERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SECEDE.

VAL>> NOW IF CARSON APPROVES THE MEASURE, IT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN FIFTY YEARS THAT A COMMUNITY HAS SUCCESSFULLY SPLIT OFF FROM THE LAUSD. SECESSIONISTS IN CARSON SAY THE DISTRICT IS TOO LARGE AND IMPERSONAL TO OFFER A QUALITY EDUCATION. THEY POINT TO DISTRICT-WIDE PROBLEMS OF OVERCROWDING AND LOW TEST SCORES, BUT PEOPLE OPPOSE TO SECESSION SAY A NEW DISTRICT WOULD STILL FACE THOSE SAME PROBLEMS PLUS A SEVERE TEACHER SHORTAGE.

JESS>> WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM BOTH SIDES HERE TO DISCUSS THE ISSUES AND TO TAKE YOUR CALLS. AVIA LONG OPPOSES THE CARSON SECESSION PLAN. DON DAVIS IS ONE OF THE ORGANIZERS OF THE NEW CARSON SCHOOL DISTRICT PROPOSAL. AND JILL STEWART, COLUMNIST FOR NEW TIMES LOS ANGELES, HAS SPENT MANY YEARS COVERING THE LOS ANGELES PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THE VOTERS -- MOST OF THEM PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY CAST THEIR VOTES. WHAT'S YOUR GUESSING?

AVIA LONG>> WELL, SINCE I'M THE OPPONENT, MY GUESS IS THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO BREAK AWAY.

DON DAVIS>> MY GUESS WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE THAT WE ARE (LAUGHTER), BUT I THINK IT'S --

JESS>> -- SURE GOT A LOT OUT OF THAT QUESTION, DIDN'T I?

DON DAVIS>> I THINK IT SHOWS THAT THE COMMUNITY IS PRETTY WELL SPLIT ON THIS. EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN IDEA OF WHAT'S BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY.

JESS>> LET'S GO TO AN OBJECTIVE VOICE. JILL, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

JILL STEWART>> I THINK IT'S A FASCINATING QUESTION BECAUSE WHAT YOU HAVE IS A LOT OF MONEY SPENT BY THE TEACHER'S UNION. THE TEACHER'S UNION DOES NOT WANT ANOTHER DISTRICT TO HAVE TO NEGOTIATE WITH. IT'S JUST A NIGHTMARE FOR THEM, SO --

VAL>> -- SO THEY'RE AGAINST SECESSION.

JILL STEWART>> THEY'VE SPENT -- WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY -- $100,000 OR MORE AND I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO BREAK AWAY HAVE SPENT ABOUT $5,000 --

DON DAVIS>> -- ABOUT $10,000 BY NOW.

JILL STEWART>> OKAY. SO THE QUESTION IS, CAN A GRASS-ROOTS MOVEMENT WITH NO MONEY AGAINST ALL THESE ODDS ACTUALLY BREAK AWAY TODAY? I THINK IT'S A FASCINATING STORY. THE L.A. TIMES GAVE IT SIX INCHES ON SUNDAY. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. THE MEDIA HAS SORT OF ALMOST IGNORED THE ISSUE.

VAL>> THE NEW YORK TIMES HAS COVERED IT, I UNDERSTAND.

JILL STEWART>> PROBABLY BETTER THAN LOCAL. IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

VAL>> SO WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE HERE? LET'S BE HYPOTHETICAL FOR A MOMENT. IF IT DOES BREAK AWAY, WHAT ARE THE ANTI-SECESSIONISTS AFRAID OF?

AVIA LONG>> LACK OF TEACHERS, POOR EDUCATION FOR OUR KIDS. WE'VE WORKED VERY HARD TO GET WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW WITH LAUSD. WE'VE BROKEN AWAY INTO MANY DISTRICTS. WE'RE DISTRICT K NOW AND, DURING THE TIME IN THE LAST YEAR OR YEAR AND A HALF THAT WE'VE BEEN DISTRICT K, OUR TEST SCORES HAVE CAME UP.

VAL>> SO YOU STILL HAVE FAITH IN LAUSD TO --

AVIA LONG>> -- I HAVE FAITH IN DISTRICT K. NOW I'VE BEEN FIGHTING WITH LAUSD FOR OVER THIRTY YEARS. I'M A PARENT AND A GRANDPARENT AND I HAVE A TWELVE-YEAR-OLD IN SCHOOL. THINGS HAVE NOT BEEN GREAT, ABSOLUTELY NOT, BUT OUR TEST SCORES HAVE CAME UP. WE HAVE A LOT OF GREAT TEACHERS IN CARSON AND WE HAVE A LOT OF GREAT FOLKS WORKING FROM DISTRICT K TO HELP IMPROVE OUR TEST SCORES THROUGHOUT DISTRICT K. NOT JUST CARSON, BUT THROUGHOUT, BECAUSE WE HAVE CHILDREN FROM CARSON THAT GO ALL THE WAY TO SAN PEDRO TO SCHOOL, FROM GARDENA TO SAN PEDRO.

VAL>> I WANT TO GET OUR VIEWERS INVOLVED HERE. WE HAVE A CALL COMING IN FROM DIANA. DIANA, YOU'RE ON LIFE AND TIMES.

DIANA>> THANK YOU. IT'S A REAL SIMPLE THING. WHEN WILL THE L.A. SCHOOL DISTRICT TEACH CHILDREN TO READ? FOCUS ON TEACHING THEM TO READ SO THAT NO MORE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WANT TO BREAK AWAY. THAT'S ALL THIS IS ABOUT. TEACHING THEM TO READ. WHEN WILL THAT HAPPEN?

JILL STEWART>> I THINK THAT'S A BIG, BIG ISSUE AND, OF COURSE, THE READING SCORES ARE GOING UP FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFETIME IN L.A. OF 21 YEARS. THERE'S A TURNAROUND. THE KIDS ARE LEARNING TO READ, THE LITTLE KIDS, BUT AS DON AND I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING EARLIER, THE OLDER KIDS ARE GETTING LOST. FORTY PERCENT DROPOUT RATES, TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE, PROBLEMS, AND ANONYMITY IN A HUGE DISTRICT WHERE NO TEACHER KNOWS HOW THEY'RE REALLY DOING, NO PRINCIPAL KNOWS HOW THEY'RE REALLY DOING, AND THAT'S WHAT THE BREAK-AWAY MOVEMENT IS ALL ABOUT, I THINK.

VAL>> IS THAT RIGHT? WE SHOULD --

DON DAVIS>> -- WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DROPOUT RATE, FOR INSTANCE, IN BANNING, IT'S ABOUT 43 PERCENT. WE LOSE ALMOST HALF OF OUR KIDS FROM THE NINTH TO THE TWELFTH. THE READING SCORES AT BANNING ARE DOWN --

VAL>> -- I'M SORRY, BANNING IS --

DON DAVIS>> BANNING HIGH SCHOOL, WHICH IS ONE OF THE SCHOOLS IN WILMINGTON WHERE WE FEED SOME OF OUR CHILDREN INTO. THE READING SCORES ARE DOWN IN THE TWELFTH PERCENTILE NATIONALLY. MATH SCORES ARE SOMEWHERE DOWN IN THE TWENTIETH PERCENTILE. CARSON HIGH IS BETTER, BUT THEY'RE STILL DOWN IN THE TWENTIETH, THIRTIETH, FORTIETH PERCENTILE. THEY'RE NOT PERFORMING AS WELL AS TORRANCE, MANHATTAN BEACH, ANY OF OUR NEIGHBORS, LONG BEACH, ENGLEWOOD. THEY ALL DO BETTER THAN THE SCHOOLS IN CARSON DO.

VAL>> BUT WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE WHO SAY IF YOU LOOK AT SCHOOL DISTRICTS NATIONWIDE, ALMOST EVERYTHING IS TIED TO AFFLUENCE, TO SOCIOECONOMIC RESOURCES, AND THAT HAVING YOUR OWN SEPARATE SMALL SCHOOL DISTRICT IS NOT GOING TO NECESSARILY --

DON DAVIS>> -- WELL, THAT'S A GOOD MYTH BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT L.A. UNIFIED SPENDS PER PUPIL PER YEAR, THEY'RE SPENDING $12,500 ROUGHLY PER PUPIL PER YEAR WITH ENTITLEMENTS AND CATEGORICALS AND ABA. WHEN YOU LOOK AT PALOS VERDES, THEY'RE SPENDING ABOUT $6,000, $7,000 -- I DON'T WANT TO MISQUOTE THIS, BUT THEY'RE SPENDING LESS THAN $7,000 PER YEAR PER PUPIL. SO IT'S AN AFFLUENT AREA, BUT THEY'RE NOT SPENDING AS MUCH MONEY. I THINK THE BIG KEY IN THIS IS ONE WORD. IT'S EXPECTATIONS. IT'S WHAT WE EXPECT OUR STUDENTS TO LEARN. WE EXPECT OUR -- EVEN IN PALOS VERDES, THERE'S NOBODY UP THERE THAT EXPECTS THEIR STUDENTS TO FAIL.

AVIA LONG>> BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING TOO, THAT CARSON HAS TWELVE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND NINE OF THOSE ARE TITLE ONE SCHOOLS, WHICH TITLE ONE MONIES ARE COMING IN TO THOSE SCHOOLS TO HELP TEACH THOSE CHILDREN AND TITLE ONE MONIES IS JUST FOR LOW-INCOME FAMILIES. 

DON DAVIS>> EXACTLY.

AVIA LONG>> WE HAVE TWO OF OUR MIDDLE SCHOOLS THAT ARE TITLE ONE. WE WOULD HAVE THREE EXCEPT FOR THEY DON'T LIKE TO FILL OUT THE APPLICATIONS.

JILL STEWART>> I THINK THE PROBLEMS, THOUGH, THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE, THE ISSUE OF AFFLUENCE AND HOW IT ALWAYS TRACKS WITH HOW WELL THE CHILDREN ARE DOING, IS THAT IT HAS BEEN THE BIG CRUTCH. LOOK, OUR KIDS ARE POOR, WE'RE BEING GIVEN BAD RAW MATERIAL, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO WITH IT. THAT'S BEING DISPROVED CASE AFTER CASE. IT'S NOT BEING DISPROVED CITYWIDE, BUT CASE AFTER CASE, SO THIS IS, I THINK, A TOWN OR AREA THAT WANTS TO BE ONE OF THOSE CASES IF POSSIBLE.

JESS>> THIS ISSUE RESONATES WELL BEYOND THE LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT OR LOS ANGELES COUNTY. WE HAVE A CALL NOW FROM STEVE IN ORANGE COUNTY. STEVE, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.

STEVE>> YES, MY QUESTION IS TO THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THE DISTRICT TOGETHER. HOW THEY CAN JUSTIFY KEEPING A DISTRICT THAT HAS THE MOST AMOUNT OF SCHOOLS BY PERCENTAGE IN THE LOWER ONE AND TWO DECILES IN PERFORMANCE OF STATE STANDARDS? HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY HAVING KIDS HAVING POOR EDUCATION DECADE AFTER DECADE? THANK YOU.

VAL>> THAT WOULD GO TO AVIA.

AVIA LONG>> WELL, I REALLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, STEVE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT OUR CHILDREN ARE IN THE ONE AND TWO DECILES IN SCHOOL. OUR API SCORES IN CARSON ALONE EITHER MET OR EXCEEDED THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. I THINK YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR INFORMATION A LITTLE BETTER.

VAL>> I THINK HE'S TALKING ABOUT LAUSD OVERALL AND HE'S SAYING WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE PART OF THAT?

AVIA LONG>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT LAUSD OVERALL. I KNOW ABOUT CARSON BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I LIVE AND THAT'S WHERE MY CHILD GOES TO SCHOOL AND THAT'S ALL LAUSD.

JILL STEWART>> I THINK THE JUSTIFICATION I'VE HEARD AGAIN AND AGAIN, TO ANSWER THE CALLER'S QUESTION, IS THAT THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY CAN BUY MORE GOODS FOR A CHEAPER PRICE, THE ECONOMY IS SCALED, KEEP IT BIG, YOU CAN BARGAIN EASIER, YOU CAN PUSH THE STATE AROUND MORE, YOU CAN HAVE BETTER LOBBYING AND GOOD REASON TO KEEP IT BIG, AND THAT'S WHY --

JESS>> -- THAT WAS A PRETTY COMPELLING ARGUMENT.

JILL STEWART>> THAT'S WHY THEY CREATED THIS HUGE DISTRICT IN THE FIRST PLACE. WHAT THEY DIDN'T REALIZE WAS THAT IT WAS GOING TO GET OUT OF CONTROL IN THE CLASSROOM ITSELF.

DON DAVIS>> WELL, THE ARGUMENTS SOUND GOOD, BUT WHEN YOU GO TO SMALLER DISTRICTS LIKE TORRANCE, THEY WOULD ARGUE THAT THEY HAVE A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY, THEY CAN SEND THEIR TEACHERS TO STAPLES OR ANOTHER STORE LOCALLY AND THEY CAN NEGOTIATE AS INDIVIDUALS WHAT THEY NEED SPECIFICALLY IN THE CLASSROOM.

VAL>> I'VE ALSO HEARD THAT ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS AGAINST SECESSION WOULD COME FROM PARENTS BECAUSE -- AND TELL ME IF THIS IS TRUE -- THAT IF YOU HAVE A SMALLER DISTRICT, PARENTS CANNOT SEND THEIR CHILD TO A MAGNET SCHOOL OUTSIDE THAT DISTRICT. SO RIGHT NOW, PARENTS HAVE A CHOICE OF MAGNET SCHOOLS, BUT IF CARSON BECOMES ITS OWN DISTRICT, SUDDENLY THAT --

DON DAVIS>> -- WELL, THAT'S CORRECT. RIGHT NOW I THINK THERE ARE SEVEN MAGNET PROGRAMS THAT CARSON STUDENTS PARTICIPATE IN. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT EVEN THE BEST, THE HIGHEST-TOUTED MAGNET PROGRAMS LIKE THE KING DREW MEDICAL PROGRAM, THEIR READING PERFORMANCE IS IN THE 33RD NATIONAL PERCENTILE, SO THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT WELL.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO SQUEEZE IN ONE MORE CALL FROM ABE IN PASADENA. ABE, YOU'RE ON LIFE AND TIMES.

ABE>> HI. MY QUESTION IS A TWO-PART QUESTION. THE FIRST PART IS, SHOULDN'T YOU BE ADDRESSING A BIGGER ISSUE IN THAT YOU HAVE PARENTS THAT AREN'T SPENDING ENOUGH TIME WITH THEIR CHILDREN AND TRADITIONALLY AREN'T EVEN READING TO THEIR KIDS ANY MORE, WHICH IS FUNDAMENTALLY DONE BEFORE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?

AVIA LONG>> WE ALL CAN AGREE ON THAT.

ABE>> THEN SECONDLY, TO THE WOMAN WHO'S SUPPORTING THE DISTRICT, HOW CAN YOU SUPPORT A DISTRICT THAT IS THAT BIG AND MONOLITHIC WHERE A DISTRIBUTION OF MATERIALS IS PRETTY INEFFICIENT? AT THAT POINT, I'LL LET YOU GUYS ANSWER THE QUESTION.

VAL>> ALL RIGHT.

AVIA LONG>> OKAY, FIRST OF ALL, I'M NOT SUPPORTING THE DISTRICT. I'M SUPPORTING THE SCHOOLS IN THE CITY OF CARSON, GET THAT STRAIGHT. I SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS IN THE CITY OF CARSON BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF. AS I SAID BEFORE, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER THIRTY YEARS AS A VOLUNTEER. I AM A PARENT OF FIVE CHILDREN AND 21 GRANDCHILDREN, SO I PRETTY MUCH KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I REALLY FEEL THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO THE VERY BEST THEY CAN. I'VE BEEN VERY PROUD OF THE FACT THAT THE KIDS IN OUR CITY HAVE CAME UP SO FAR BECAUSE THAT'S WHO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT.

VAL>> AND WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE --

JESS>> -- SO THERE.

AVIA LONG>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) AND, YES, PARENTS SHOULD READ MORE. NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

AVIA LONG>> YES, I AGREE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ON THAT.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH TO JILL STEWART, AVIA LONG AND DON DAVIS. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

DON DAVIS>> THANK YOU.

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JESS>> WE HAVE AN UPDATE TONIGHT FROM ED ARTIS, THE INTERNATIONAL RELIEF WORKER WHO IS NOW IN NORTHERN AFGHANISTAN. ARTIS CALLED US THIS EVENING BY SATELLITE PHONE WITH THE LATEST ON HIS MISSION TO DELIVER FOOD AND MEDICAL SUPPLIES TO REFUGEES.

VAL>> YOU'LL HEAR THAT CONVERSATION IN JUST A MINUTE, BUT FIRST, WE MET ED ARTIS SEVERAL YEARS AGO. EVEN THEN, THIS SAN FERNANDO VALLEY RESIDENT HAD A HISTORY OF TAKING RISKS TO HELP PEOPLE IN NEED.

SIR EDWARD ARTIS IS A COMMANDER IN THE KNIGHTS OF MALTA, A CENTURIES-OLD HUMANITARIAN ORDER, AND HE'S FOUNDER OF A RELIEF GROUP CALL KNIGHTSBRIDGE INTERNATIONAL. HE CALLS THEM "UPS WITH AN ATTITUDE".

ED ARTIS>> I'M NOT A MISSIONARY AND I'M NOT A MERCENARY. WE'RE NOT PAID FOR WHAT WE DO. WE'RE NOT DOING IT BECAUSE WE'RE GUILTY OF SOMETHING WE'VE DONE IN A PREVIOUS LIFE OR IN THIS LIFE. WE DO IT BECAUSE WE CAN.

VAL>> ARTIS BEGAN HIS RELIEF WORK IN THE VIETNAM WAR. HE WAS A PARATROOPER AND MEDIC WHO WOULD TAKE SUPPLY RATIONS TO LOCAL ORPHANAGES. SINCE THEN, HE'S PARACHUTED INTO COMBAT ZONES AND SNEAKED OVER ENEMY LINES IN CHECHNYA, RWANDA, CAMBODIA AND AFGHANISTAN, TO NAME A FEW.

ED ARTIS>> THERE'S NO VISAS. THERE'S NO BORDERS. I MEAN, YOU JUST MAKE A DEAL WITH THE WARLORD OR A COMMANDER IN ONE OF THE WARRING AREAS AND SAY, LOOK, WE'RE NON-POLITICAL, NON-GOVERNMENTAL, NON-RELIGIOUS. WE'RE A COUPLE OF CHUBBY GUYS, YOU KNOW, SHAPED LIKE PEARS WHO ARE BRINGING IN A HALF MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF MEDICINE THAT WE KNOW IS GOING TO BE USEFUL TO SAVE THE CHILDREN. HOW CAN THEY TURN THEIR BACK ON US?

JESS>> ED, IT'S GOOD HEARING FROM YOU, BUT BEFORE WE ASK ABOUT YOUR MISSION TO GET FOOD AND BLANKETS TO THE STARVING IN AFGHANISTAN, LET'S INQUIRE ABOUT YOUR CIRCUMSTANCE. HOW ARE YOU DOING?

ED ARTIS>> I'M DOING MUCH BETTER THAN I WAS BEFORE. YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN EATING AFGHAN FOOD NOW FOR ABOUT THREE WEEKS. I'M NOW ACCLIMATED PRETTY MUCH TO WHAT'S GOING ON HERE AND THE EXCITEMENT OF BEING ABLE TO HELP THESE PEOPLE HAS REALLY GOT ME CHARGED.

JESS>> DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED THE HELP NOW?

ED ARTIS>> YES. WE'VE ACTUALLY BEEN ABLE TO GET INTO TWO CAMPS SO FAR AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A MOVE TODAY TO ANOTHER THRESHOLD OF REFUGEES JUST AS THEY MIGRATE IN.

VAL>> ED, PAINT A PICTURE FOR US BECAUSE IT'S SO HARD FOR US TO IMAGINE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE SITTING HERE IN LOS ANGELES. WHAT ARE YOU SEEING? WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE? HOW MANY? WHAT ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES?

ED ARTIS>> WE'RE ONLY ABOUT FOURTEEN KILOMETERS FROM THE FRONT. WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE SOME OF THE BOMBING THAT IS GOING ON AND HEAR THE FIGHTING. THE PEOPLE CROSSING THE BORDER ARE PANIC-STRICKEN IN SOME CASES AND WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND ELDERLY IN THESE MAKESHIFT CAMPS.

JESS>> YOU ARE THERE WITH 45 TONS OF WHEAT, FIVE TONS OF SUGAR, FIVE TONS OF COOKING OIL, A THOUSAND BLANKETS. HOW FAR WILL THAT GO IN ALLEVIATING THE NEED THERE?

ED ARTIS>> IT'S JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET AND WHAT WE FOUND OUT IS, BY VIRTUE OF HAVING BEEN HERE FIRST AND AS GETTING AS MUCH PRESS AS WE HAVE -- THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS HAS BEEN VERY GOOD TO US, AS HAS LIFE AND TIMES -- A LOT OF NGO'S NOW WHO THOUGHT IT WAS UNSAFE BEFORE HAVE EITHER BEEN EMBARRASSED OR HUMILIATED TO FOLLOW US, AND NOW THEY'RE FEEDING THE POPULATION. SO THERE WILL BE SOME RESOLUTION.

VAL>> NOW, ED, OF COURSE, YOUR EFFORT IS DISTINGUISHED BY THE FACT THAT YOUR PEOPLE ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY HAND THE FOOD AND THE SUPPLIES TO THE PEOPLE IN NEED. WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT?

ED ARTIS>> VAL, THE KEY WAS WHEN WE MET WITH THESE PEOPLE IN THESE VILLAGES. WE WENT IN FIRST AND ASKED THEM WHAT THEY NEEDED. THEY GAVE US THE LIST OF ITEMS, THE TENTS, THE BLANKETS, THE FOOD. ONE OF THEIR KEY REQUESTS WAS THAT WE GIVE IT BY OUR HAND TO THEM. IF THE AID GOES TO OTHERS, THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME KIND OF SEEPAGE WHERE LITTLE OR NONE OF IT GETS TO THE ACTUAL PEOPLE THAT NEED IT.

VAL>> ED, ANOTHER CONCERN IS THE WEATHER. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME DEATHS IN THE REFUGEE CAMPS THAT YOU'RE AT JUST BECAUSE OF, WHAT, THE COLD WEATHER THAT'S MOVING IN?

ED ARTIS>> IT'LL BE FREEZING HERE SOON. RIGHT NOW, IT'S PROBABLY THIRTY DEGREES. I'M DRESSED VERY WARM. THESE REFUGEES ARE ON THE GROUND WITH NOTHING AND, AS THE FREEZE GETS DEEPER INTO THE LOW TEENS, WE'RE GOING TO START TO LOSE LOTS OF PEOPLE.

JESS>> YOU'RE CRITICAL OF THE MILITARY'S FOOD DROP PROGRAM, BUT CAN YOU MAKE AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST THE TALIBAN?

ED ARTIS>> WE ATTENDED A PRESS CONFERENCE WITH DR. ABDULLAH-ABDULLAH, THE FOREIGN MINISTER FOR THE UNITED FRONT, YESTERDAY AND THEN HAD A PRIVATE MEETING WITH HIM. WE WERE THE ONLY PEOPLE BESIDES CNN ALLOWED TO MEET WITH HIM. HIS ASSESSMENT WAS THERE NEEDS TO BE CLOSER COORDINATION BETWEEN THE MILITARY FORCES ON BOTH SIDES.

JESS>> HOW LONG IS YOUR MISSION GOING TO LAST, ED? HOW SOON CAN YOU COME HOME?

ED ARTIS>> WE GOT A FUNNY LITTLE MEETING LAST NIGHT WITH DR. ABDULLAH. HE'S ASKED US TO CONSIDER STAYING AN ADDITIONAL WEEK TO TWO WEEKS. WE'RE GOING TO COMPLETE A FOOD DISTRIBUTION. WE HAVE ANOTHER FORTY TONS OF FOOD THAT WE'RE PICKING UP TODAY. WE'RE GOING TO A PLACE CALLED [INAUDIBLE], WHICH IS ABOUT A SIX-HOUR DRIVE FROM HERE AND, ONCE WE'RE COMPLETED THERE, WE'RE GOING BACK TO UZBEKISTAN TO PREPARE TO GO INTO MAZAR-E SHARIF ONCE IT'S LIBERATED. THEY'VE ASKED THAT WE BE THE FIRST NGO TO GO INTO MAZAR-E SHARIF.

VAL>> SO ARE YOUR SUPPLIES HOLDING UP? DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES, ENOUGH MONEY? ARE THERE ENOUGH SUPPLIES TO BUY ON THE MARKET TO MEET YOUR NEEDS?

ED ARTIS>> VAL, WE'RE ABLE TO BUY SUPPLIES. I WORKED OUT A PROCEDURE WHERE WE CAN GET MONEY WIRED TO AN AMBASSADOR. THE AFGHAN AMBASSADOR IS KIND ENOUGH TO WORK OUT A COURTESY FOR US WHERE WE CAN GET CASH DELIVERED TO US. THERE'S NO CREDIT CARDS OR CHECKS ACCEPTED HERE. THERE IS LOCALLY AVAILABLE FOOD, BUT WE ALSO ARE USING A FOOD BROKER WHO'S ABLE TO GET FOOD FROM KAZAKSTAN, UZBEKISTAN AND TAJIKISTAN FOR US.

JESS>> ED ARTIS, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. WE WISH YOU CONTINUED SUCCESS IN YOUR OPERATION AND, MOST OF ALL, WE WISH YOU SAFETY.

ED ARTIS>> GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JESS AND VAL. GOOD MORNING, GOOD EVENING, LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> HE'S QUITE A GUY. THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.


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