11/26/01

LC011126

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> THEY'RE FROM SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, BUT THEY LIVED NEW YORK'S NIGHTMARE. TONIGHT TWO LOCAL SURVIVORS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ATTACK DESCRIBE THEIR LIVES IN THE AFTERMATH OF SEPTEMBER 11.

STEVE JAKSCH>> I WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY DAY. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TOMORROW OR RIGHT NOW EVEN.

DAN WHITE>> IT WAS THE CLOSEST DAY I'VE EVER COME TO DYING, BUT I DIDN'T AND I'M HERE.

VAL>> WE'LL ALSO HEAR FROM LOCAL FIREMEN WHO'VE BEEN TO GROUND ZERO IN NEW YORK. IT WAS LIKE A TRIP TO HELL AND BACK, WORKING IN THE DEBRIS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. TONIGHT, THEIR STORIES ABOUT WHAT THEY SAW THERE AND HOW IT'S CHANGED THEIR LIVES FOREVER.

JESS>> SO MANY HORRIBLE IMAGES HAVE BEEN FOREVER ETCHED INTO OUR NATIONAL MEMORY, BUT TONIGHT SOME PICTURES FROM NEW YORK YOU HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. THEY'RE THE UNTOLD STORIES OF COURAGE AND INSPIRATION. SNAPSHOTS OF AMERICA'S DARKEST DAY, ALL PART OF AN INTRIGUING NEW COLLECTION OF PHOTOGRAPHS NOW ON DISPLAY IN SANTA MONICA.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

TERRORISM MAY HAVE CHANGED AMERICA IN SOME ABSTRACT SENSE, BUT IT'S HAD A VERY DIRECT IMPACT ON THE LIVES OF TWO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA MEN YOU ARE ABOUT TO MEET. BOTH WERE IN NEW YORK ON BUSINESS THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11 INSIDE THE SECOND TOWER TO BE STRUCK BY A HIJACKED PLANE.

VAL>> TONIGHT YOU'LL HEAR THEM DESCRIBE IN VIVID DETAIL HOW THEY ESCAPED. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU'LL HEAR THEM TALK ABOUT HOW IT FEELS NOW TO BE A SURVIVOR.

JESS>> DAN WHITE IS 31 YEARS OLD. HE AND HIS WIFE AND TWO SONS LIVE IN SIMI VALLEY. WHITE IS A TECHNOLOGY EXPERT FOR A SOFTWARE COMPANY THAT'S HEADQUARTERED IN NEW YORK. HE HAD AN OFFICE IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER.

AND THEN THERE'S STEVE JAKSCH. HE'S 24, LIVES IN LAGUNA NIGUEL WITH HIS FIANCÉ, HER THREE CHILDREN AND THE COUPLE'S 16-MONTH-OLD SON. JAKSCH IS A FINANCIAL ADVISOR. HE WAS IN NEW YORK FOR A TRAINING SEMINAR. TONIGHT THE STORY OF TWO STRANGERS WHO SHARE A COMMON TRAGEDY THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11.

DAN WHITE>> I HAD JUST GOTTEN INTO NEW YORK THAT MORNING AT 7:30 FROM JFK AND I TOOK A CAB RIDE TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TO MY OFFICES ON THE 84TH FLOOR.

STEVE JAKSCH>> I WAS JUST SITTING IN A BREAK ROOM RIGHT BY THERE LOOKING OUT AT THE STATUE OF LIBERTY. IT HAD RAINED THE NIGHT BEFORE, SO IT WAS REALLY BEAUTIFUL OUT. I WAS JUST SITTING AND LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW TALKING WITH A COUPLE OF OTHER GUYS.

DAN WHITE>> SUDDENLY THERE WAS A RUMBLE AND A SOUND AND A LOT OF COMMOTION JUST OUT THE WINDOW AND YOU LOOK AND YOU SEE AND THERE'S PAPERS JUST TUMBLING THROUGH THE AIR.

STEVE JAKSCH>> ALL OF A SUDDEN WE JUST LOOKED UP AND YOU'D JUST SEE ALL THIS PAPER AND SMOKE AND LIKE FIRE. WELL, WHAT'S GOING ON?

DAN WHITE>> MY THOUGHT WAS, YOU KNOW, HERE I AM AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, I'M IN NEW YORK, THIS IS TERRORISM, I GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE.

STEVE JAKSCH>> WELL, THERE WAS NO FIRE ALARM, SO WE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS ANYTHING GOING ON. WE JUST THOUGHT MAYBE THERE WAS A BOMB OR SOMETHING THAT WENT OFF IN ANOTHER BUILDING, YOU KNOW, THINKING BACK TO THE '93 BOMBING.

DAN WHITE>> WE STARTED GOING DOWN THE STAIRS AND IT WAS 84 FLIGHTS. I DIDN'T KNOW HOW LONG IT WAS GOING TO TAKE.

STEVE JAKSCH>> FINALLY AFTER PROBABLY ABOUT FIVE MINUTES, SECURITY CAME BY AND SHE LOOKED REALLY SCARED AND SHE SAID, "GO FOR THE EMERGENCY EXITS."

DAN WHITE>> WE GOT DOWN TO ABOUT THE SIXTIES, FLOOR 64 OR 65, AND THE P.A. ANNOUNCEMENT CAME ON. UP UNTIL NOW, THAT WAS THE FIRST THING THEY SAID. THEY HADN'T SAID ANYTHING IN OUR TOWER YET. THEY SAID, "TOWER TWO IS SECURE. PLEASE STAY INSIDE THE BUILDING. THERE'S DEBRIS FALLING OUTSIDE."

STEVE JAKSCH>> A COUPLE OF OTHER GUYS THAT I RAN INTO, I DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY WERE, BUT THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, LET'S HOP OUT AND TRY THE ELEVATOR, WHICH WAS PROBABLY NOT A GOOD IDEA. SO WE GOT OUT LIKE THE 55TH FLOOR -- WE WERE ON THE 61ST ORIGINALLY -- AND TOOK THE ELEVATOR DOWN. THEY'RE ALL EXPRESS ELEVATORS, SO WE TOOK FROM THE 55TH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE 44TH AND WE GOT OUT THERE AND WE'RE LIKE THERE'S NO WAY THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN ELEVATOR GOING DOWN, BUT THERE STILL WAS. THERE WAS ONE JUST FILLED WITH PEOPLE.

DAN WHITE>> I WAS ANXIOUS TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING. I WAS ANXIOUS TO GET OUT OF MANHATTAN AND KEEP ON GOING WEST.

STEVE JAKSCH>> WE GOT DOWN TO THE LOBBY AND HOPPED OUT OF THE ELEVATOR AND THEN IT WAS JUST -- YOU KNOW, THERE WAS JUST PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.

DAN WHITE>> WE GOT DOWN TO THE 34TH FLOOR AND THAT'S WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE BUILDING. SO, TO US, WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE IS THAT SAME RUMBLE, THAT SAME SOUND, BUT IT'S LOUDER, MUCH LOUDER. IT'S CLEARLY IN OUR BUILDING AND THEN THE BUILDING GIVES A ROCK LIKE BEING IN AN EARTHQUAKE. JUST ONE SHIFT TO THE LEFT, ONE SHIFT TO THE RIGHT. EVERYBODY KIND OF GRABBED ONTO THE STAIRWELL AND THEN WE KNEW IT WAS US.

STEVE JAKSCH>> THEN AS I'M STANDING THERE LOOKING UP AT THE BUILDING, ALL OF A SUDDEN WHAT I NOW KNOW IS THE SECOND PLANE HIT. I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS AN EXPLOSION OF SOMETHING ELSE, BUT JUST A HUGE EXPLOSION OVER MY HEAD. THERE WAS ALREADY DEBRIS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND THEN PEOPLE JUST STARTED SCREAMING AND BASICALLY YOU HAD TO RUN SO YOU DIDN'T GET CRUSHED BY THINGS. I MEAN, THERE WAS CONCRETE FALLING AND YOU HAD TO RUN ALSO NOT TO GET TRAMPLED. THERE WAS PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.

DAN WHITE>> WHEN I FIRST GOT OUT OF THE BUILDING AND I LOOKED UP, I JUST THOUGHT IT'S ON FIRE, THE PLACE IS IN FLAMES, THAT'S MY FLOOR ON FIRE. NO ONE'S GOING TO GET OUT. ALL THE STAIRS ARE CUT AND THERE'S NO WAY ANYONE'S GOING TO GET OUT.

STEVE JAKSCH>> THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT WERE JUST CURLED UP, CRYING. THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE THERE, YOU KNOW, WITH THEIR CAMERAS TAKING PICTURES. SOME PEOPLE JUST GETTING OUT OF THERE RUNNING. IT WAS JUST A -- THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS PEOPLE WERE DOING.

DAN WHITE>> BUT STILL, AT THIS POINT, NO CONCEPT THAT ANYTHING ELSE WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT THAT FIRE OUT. IT MIGHT TAKE DAYS, THERE MIGHT BE -- YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY WASN'T GOING TO BE GOING BACK TO WORK. THE OFFICE WAS GONE. THE OFFICE WAS GOING TO BURN, THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING.

STEVE JAKSCH>> I TURNED AROUND AND LOOKED BACK AND YOU COULD SEE THIS GAPING HOLE IN THE SIDE OF ONE WORLD TRADE AND IT WAS JUST -- I MEAN, IT WAS LIKE BEING IN A MOVIE.

DAN WHITE>> YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT OF CONFUSION THAT DAY IF YOU'RE WALKING AROUND. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. I HEARD THAT THERE WERE PLANES. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THEY WERE BIG PLANES OR SMALL PLANES.

STEVE JAKSCH>> PEOPLE SAID A PLANE CRASHED AND YOU COULDN'T REALLY TELL WHAT PEOPLE WERE SAYING IN THE STREET BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MANY DIFFERENT STORIES. AFTER I GOT OUT, I FIGURED OUT MY FIRST PRIORITY WAS JUST TO GET BACK TO THE HOTEL AND LET MY FAMILY KNOW I WAS OKAY.

DAN WHITE>> THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY DIFFERENT. IT WAS SOMETHING WHERE, YOU KNOW, MINE WAS THE LOSS OF MY LIFE AND IT WAS SORT OF INSTINCTIVE. PROTECT YOURSELF. YOU DON'T WORRY ABOUT EMOTIONS TOO MUCH. WITH THEM, THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH THE POTENTIAL REALITY THAT I WASN'T GOING TO COME HOME.

STEVE JAKSCH>> IT WAS MY DAD THAT ANSWERED THE PHONE BECAUSE MY MOM AND MY FIANCÉ WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE IN TEARS.

DAN WHITE>> I FINALLY SAT DOWN IN A RESTAURANT AND I WATCHED TV FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AND, YOU KNOW, JUST WATCHED EVERYTHING THAT HAD HAPPENED. I HADN'T SEEN THE COLLAPSES YET. I FOUND OUT ALONG THE WAY THAT THEY WERE -- YOU KNOW, I LOOKED DOWN THERE AND THEY WEREN'T THERE.

STEVE JAKSCH>> THOSE BUILDINGS AREN'T THERE ANYMORE. OH, MY GOD, I'M LUCKY TO BE ALIVE.

DAN WHITE>> THE FEELING I HAD WAS THAT I STILL WANTED TO GET OFF THE ISLAND AND IT MIGHT TAKE ME UNTIL 11:00 AT NIGHT, I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT TOOK ME UNTIL 7:00 AT NIGHT. SO THAT'S WHEN I FINALLY GOT TO THE HOBOKEN TRAIN STATION AND TOOK A TRAIN TO MADISON, NEW JERSEY, WHERE I HAVE AN APARTMENT THERE.

STEVE JAKSCH>> I WANTED TO BE AROUND PEOPLE. WE COULDN'T TAKE OUR EYES OFF THE TV AND WE WANTED TO STAY TOGETHER. I THINK FOR THE NEXT THREE DAYS, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THIS BUNCH OF PEOPLE TELLING THEIR STORIES OVER AND OVER AGAIN. YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'D BEEN AND WHAT HAD HAPPENED.

DAN WHITE>> THE WHOLE MOOD AT THAT POINT CHANGES WHEN PEOPLE HADN'T CHECKED IN. THEY WERE MISSING. THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT. GUYS I'D JUST TALKED TO.

STEVE JAKSCH>> IT PROBABLY DIDN'T HIT ME UNTIL I GOT HOME THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING THAT HAD HAPPENED. SEEING MY SON AND SEEING MY FIANCÉ WAS JUST LIKE WOW.

DAN WHITE>> SATURDAY WAS THE FIRST DAY THAT I COULD FLY BACK TO CALIFORNIA AND I STILL HADN'T SEEN MY FAMILY AND I SORT OF POSTPONED AS MUCH OF MY REACTION AS I POSSIBLY COULD.

STEVE JAKSCH>> IT WAS JUST ALL BUILDING UP UNTIL THAT POINT, YOU KNOW? I JUST WANTED TO GET HOME AND SEE MY FAMILY AND SEE MY FRIENDS. IT WAS JUST LIKE A BIG RELEASE THEN.

DAN WHITE>> THAT FIRST TAKEOFF, THAT WAS SORT OF THE COMING TOGETHER OF THE FEAR OF FLIGHT, THE EMOTIONS OF GOING HOME TO SEE MY FAMILY. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE I WANTED TO SEE, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO I WANTED TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING FOR AND GO SEE AND CALL IMMEDIATELY.

STEVE JAKSCH>> THE THINGS THAT I SAW WERE JUST INHUMAN. THERE WERE JUST THINGS THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T, YOU DON'T, WANT TO PUT IN YOUR MIND THAT YOU SAW. YOU KNOW, IT'S BETTER OFF SAYING, YOU KNOW, I SAW IT ON TV. IT KIND OF MAKES YOU FEEL A LITTLE BETTER THAT I SAW IT ON TV INSTEAD OF I WAS ACTUALLY THERE.

DAN WHITE>> I SAW HORRIBLE THINGS, BUT MY DEFENSES WERE UP SO THAT I DIDN'T FOCUS ON THEM AND I DIDN'T COME AWAY WITH DETAILED MEMORIES RIGHT THEN OF WHAT THEY WERE.

STEVE JAKSCH>> IT WAS LIKE ONE NONSTOP MOMENT, LIKE TIME WASN'T EVEN MOVING. IT WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, EVERYTHING HAPPENED WITHIN A MATTER OF A FEW MINUTES WHEN IT PROBABLY TOOK, UNTIL I GOT BACK TO THE HOTEL, A COUPLE OF HOURS.

DAN WHITE>> EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED THAT DAY IS NOT BASED IN THE FRAMEWORK OF YOUR REAL EVERYDAY LIFE. IT WAS JUST SHATTERED.

STEVE JAKSCH>> I WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY DAY. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TOMORROW OR RIGHT NOW EVEN.

DAN WHITE>> THE FEELING IS THAT YOU'RE NUMB. IT'S ALSO THIS FEELING THAT'S KIND OF LIKE WHEN YOU ALMOST STEP OUT IN THE STREET AND ALMOST GET HIT BY A BUS, BUT YOU DON'T, AND IT KIND OF RUSHES BY. IT'S LIKE YOU DODGED A BULLET. YOU KNOW YOU CAME REAL CLOSE. THIS WAS THE CLOSEST DAY I'VE EVER COME TO DYING, BUT I DIDN'T AND I'M HERE.

STEVE JAKSCH>> I THINK IT MIGHT BE KIND OF A SHAME THAT IT TAKES SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO BRING US ALL TOGETHER LIKE THIS, BUT I REALLY THINK IT HAS CHANGED THE WAY WE LOOK AT EVERYTHING.

DAN WHITE>> EVERY DAY, I HEAR ANOTHER NEWS ITEM OR, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER PIECE OF INFORMATION ABOUT SOMEONE I USED TO WORK WITH, ABOUT WHERE THEY WERE, WHAT BODY PART THEY FOUND AND USED TO IDENTIFY THEM, HOW MUCH WAS RECOVERED, WHO'S STILL MISSING, WHO STILL HAS TO DEAL WITH THE GRIEF EVERY SINGLE DAY. YOU KNOW, I WISH PEOPLE WOULD KEEP THAT IN MIND BECAUSE, CERTAINLY KNOWING WHAT I KNOW, THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT YOU HAVE TO BE AS AGGRESSIVE AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN.

VAL>> YOU'VE JUST HEARD THE SURVIVORS DESCRIBE THEIR NEW APPRECIATION FOR LIFE, BUT AMERICANS ALSO HAVE A NEW APPRECIATION OF FRONT LINE HEROES, THE FIREFIGHTERS AND RESCUE PERSONNEL WHO PUT THEMSELVES IN HARM'S WAY DURING THE TIME OF CRISIS.

JESS>> MORE THAN 300 NEW YORK CITY FIREFIGHTERS DIED TRYING TO RESCUE PEOPLE FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. IN THE DAYS AFTER THAT DISASTER, FIREFIGHTERS AND PARAMEDICS FROM AROUND THE WORLD CONVERGED ON NEW YORK CITY TO TRY TO HELP WITH THE RECOVERY OPERATION. TONIGHT TWO MEMBERS OF THE LOS ANGELES CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WHO WERE PART OF THAT EFFORT ARE HERE TO SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES. TIM MANNING IS A DIVISION CHIEF. GREG AVERY IS A CAPTAIN. WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU, TO LIFE AND TIMES.

CHIEF, WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE THE DAY AFTER THE DISASTER, WERE YOU PREPARED FOR WHAT YOU FOUND?

TIM MANNING>> NO, I WASN'T. I'D SEEN IMAGES OF WHAT HAD OCCURRED ON TELEVISION. WE HAD BEEN BRIEFED ON WHAT TO EXPECT TO SEE, BUT ONCE AT THE LOCATION, GROUND ZERO, THE ENORMITY OF IT WAS JUST OVERWHELMING. THIS WAS CITY BLOCKS COMPLETELY DESTROYED AND A SIGHT THAT I HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE. IT WAS A VERY EMOTIONAL IMPACT ON ME PERSONALLY JUST TO SEE THE AMOUNT OF DESTRUCTION THAT HAD HIT NEW YORK AND OUR COUNTRY. OUR MISSION -- WE WERE TASKED WITH SEARCHING AND RESCUING SURVIVORS AND THE TASK WAS QUITE DAUNTING. IT WAS GOING TO BE A VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TASK JUST GIVEN THE SIZE OF THE IMPACT AREA.

VAL>> CAPTAIN AVERY, WHAT WAS IT LIKE WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED THE DESTRUCTION?

GREG AVERY>> WELL, WHEN WE ARRIVED ON THE SCENE AT GROUND ZERO, I WAS STRUCK BY THE LACK OF COLOR. IT WAS ALL GREY. THE DUST WAS, IN PLACES, THREE OR FOUR INCHES THICK.

VAL>> COULD YOU BREATH REALLY?

GREG AVERY>> WELL, IT WAS HARD TO BREATH. OF COURSE, WE WERE WEARING OUR RESPIRATORS, ETC. AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TAKEN CARE OF THAT WAY. BUT COMING FROM SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, GETTING ON AN AIRPLANE AND LANDING IN NEW YORK CITY, AND WE WENT THERE WITH A VERY SPECIFIC TASK LIKE THE CHIEF HAD MENTIONED, AND WE ROLLED IN TO THAT. REALLY, IT WAS OVERWHELMING. IT WAS A SHOCKING SIGHT.

JESS>> THE SHOCK MUST HAVE BEEN HEIGHTENED BY THE AWARENESS THAT 300 OF YOUR FELLOW FIREFIGHTERS WERE IN THERE SOMEWHERE TOO.

GREG AVERY>> ABSOLUTELY. YOU KNOW, WHEN THE PLANES HIT THE TOWERS, I WAS GETTING MY KIDS READY FOR SCHOOL. I WAS AT HOME AND WHEN THE FIRST TOWER FELL, I LOOKED AT MY WIFE AND SAID, "YOU KNOW, A WHOLE BUNCH OF FIREMEN JUST DIED." SO I PERSONALIZED THAT WAY AND THEN MY NEXT THOUGHT WAS, WELL, AND HOW MANY THOUSANDS OF OTHERS?

VAL>> YOU WERE THERE, OBVIOUSLY, TO TRY TO FIND ANY SURVIVORS IF ANYTHING OR TO FIND THE REMAINS OF THOSE WHO DIED. BUT YOU MUST HAVE ALSO HAD CONTACT WITH NEW YORKERS, FIREFIGHTERS WHO LOST PEOPLE. WAS THERE A LOT OF INTERACTION, EMOTIONAL INTERACTION, AS WELL AND SUPPORT?

TIM MANNING>> THERE WAS. WE WERE VERY OPTIMISTIC WHILE BEING DEPLOYED AND EN ROUTE TO NEW YORK. WE'D DONE SOME CALCULATIONS IN OUR MIND AND WE WERE HOPEFUL THAT WE WOULD FIND SURVIVORS, IN FACT, LARGE NUMBERS OF SURVIVORS. WE WERE ABLE TO WORK SIDE BY SIDE WITH OUR FELLOW FIREFIGHTERS FROM NEW YORK AND THEY'RE AN INCREDIBLE GROUP OF PEOPLE.

VAL>> WERE THOSE CALCULATIONS RIGHT?

TIM MANNING>> OUR CALCULATIONS WERE QUITE WRONG, QUITE WRONG. THE REALITY OF IT IS THAT, ONCE WE STARTED WORKING AT THE SITE THE SECOND DAY, I ONLY WITNESSED TWO SURVIVORS BEING PULLED FROM GROUND ZERO.

JESS>> HOW LONG DID YOU SUSTAIN THE HOPE THAT THERE WOULD BE A ROOM WHERE YOU'D FIND TEN OR FIFTEEN HUDDLED THAT WERE STILL ALIVE?

GREG AVERY>> OH, I THINK WE WERE PROBABLY INTO THE SIXTH OR SEVENTH OR EIGHTH DAY.

JESS>> BEFORE YOU GAVE UP?

GREG AVERY>> I DON'T THINK I EVER GAVE UP, BUT THERE WAS AN ACTIVE THOUGHT AND A HOPE THAT WE WOULD, YOU KNOW, GET INTO THE MALL OR WE'D GET INTO A PARKING STRUCTURE AND WE WOULD FIND FOLKS THAT HAD, YOU KNOW, FOUND WATER AND THEY WERE STILL ALIVE AND WAITING FOR US.

VAL>> BUT THAT NEVER HAPPENED. TELL US, YOU WERE WORKING SIDE BY SIDE WITH FIREFIGHTERS WHO LOST FAMILY MEMBERS THEMSELVES?

GREG AVERY>> THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. I WAS WORKING IN A SPACE, MY TEAM AND A NEW YORK CITY TEAM, AND I WAS SPEAKING TO THIS LIEUTENANT FROM THE NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT. WE WERE HAVING A CONVERSATION AND SOMEWHERE IN THAT CONVERSATION HE SAID, "YEAH, MY SON'S LAYING OUT HERE."

VAL>> JUST LIKE THAT? HE JUST --

GREG AVERY>> -- WELL, I THINK HE WAS NUMB. YOU KNOW, HE WAS JUST WORKING ON AUTOPILOT.

JESS>> YOU DID RECOVER SOME BODIES AND, WHEN YOU RECOVERED THE BODY OF A NEW YORK FIREMAN, WHAT DID YOU DO?

TIM MANNING>> THAT WAS AN INCREDIBLE SIGHT. WE WERE DIRECTED THAT, ONCE A NEW YORK CITY FIREFIGHTER'S BODY HAD BEEN DISCOVERED, WE WOULD THEN PULL BACK FROM THAT LOCATION AND ALLOW THE NEW YORK CITY FIREFIGHTERS TO PERFORM THE EXTRICATION OF THE BODY. ONCE THE BODY WAS REMOVED FROM THE RUBBLE, ALL THE LINES WENT SILENT. IN FACT, LINES WERE FORMED, THE BODY WAS REMOVED FROM THE SITE AND PEOPLE STOOD AT ATTENTION WHILE THAT BODY WAS REMOVED UNDERNEATH A FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES DRAPED OVER THE BODY. IT WAS VERY, VERY TOUCHING. A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESPECT WAS PAID TO THEIR FALLEN FIREFIGHTERS THAT I WITNESSED AND IT WAS QUITE INCREDIBLE. SOMETHING THAT I WILL REMEMBER FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

JESS>> THIS UNDOUBTEDLY WILL NOT ONLY BE REMEMBERED, BUT MY GUESS IS THIS ALSO CHANGED YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE TO SOME EXTENT. WILL IT CHANGE THE WAY YOU APPROACH THE JOB YOU HAVE TO DO?

GREG AVERY>> NO, I'M NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY I DO MY JOB. YOU KNOW, I WAS PROUD TO GO TO NEW YORK AND HELP AND DO OUR PART. AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE WERE ON AN AIRPLANE SIX AND A HALF HOURS AFTER WE WERE MOBILIZED AND I'M PROUD OF THAT. OBVIOUSLY, THIS CHANGES ME ON A PERSONAL LEVEL. BUT ON A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL, I THINK, OF COURSE, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME THINGS TO CONSIDER IN RESPONDING TO A HIGH-RISE FIRE. YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO CONSIDER IS THIS ANOTHER TERRORIST ATTACK, ETC.? BUT AS FAR AS OUR APPROACH TO THE JOB, I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE. WE HAVE A JOB TO DO.

JESS>> THE MEN WHO WENT INTO THOSE BUILDINGS HAD TO KNOW THAT THERE WAS ENORMOUS RISK IN GOING IN THERE AND TRYING TO RESCUE PEOPLE, BUT THERE'S NEVER ANY HESITATION.

TIM MANNING>> THAT'S THE INCREDIBLE PART OF BEING A FIREFIGHTER, AND I'VE BEEN WITH THE FIRE SERVICE FOR ALMOST 24 YEARS NOW.

JESS>> YOU'RE A SECOND OR THIRD GENERATION FIREFIGHTER?

TIM MANNING>> SECOND GENERATION. AS PEOPLE ARE EVACUATING BUILDINGS, FIREFIGHTERS ARE ENTERING INTO THOSE HAZARDOUS AREAS. AND JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME IDEA OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT SOME OF THE NEW YORK FIREFIGHTERS HAD GOING INTO THESE BUILDINGS IS THAT SOME OF THEM, PRIOR TO GOING INTO THOSE BUILDINGS, IN FACT, WROTE NOTES TO THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS INDICATING THAT THEY WERE RESPONDING ON THEIR LAST CALL AND THEY WOULDN'T BE RETURNING.

VAL>> THEY KNEW?

TIM MANNING>> AND THEY LEFT PERSONAL BELONGINGS, THEIR BADGES AND THINGS LIKE THAT BEHIND. THEY KNEW. THEY KNEW AND THEY WERE WILLING TO PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE IN ORDER TO SAVE THE THOUSANDS THAT WERE IN THAT BUILDING, AND I THINK THAT IS INCREDIBLE.

VAL>> YOU SAID IT CHANGED YOU PERSONALLY. HOW HAS IT CHANGED YOU PERSONALLY?

GREG AVERY>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IT'S GIVEN ME A NEW-FOUND OR A RENEWED HOPE AND A RESPECT FOR JUST OUR FELLOW PEOPLE, OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. I HAD NEVER BEEN TO NEW YORK CITY BEFORE THIS EVENT --

VAL>> -- NEVER? THIS IS YOUR FIRST EXPERIENCE --

GREG AVERY>> NEVER. FIRST TIME THERE, RIGHT. AND I GOT TO TELL YOU, MY EXPERIENCE WAS THAT THESE WERE A BUNCH OF INCREDIBLE PEOPLE. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FIREMEN, NECESSARILY, BUT REALLY A BUNCH OF INCREDIBLE WOUNDED PEOPLE TAKING GOOD CARE OF EACH OTHER. THAT WAS A REAL POSITIVE THING FOR ME TO BRING BACK.

JESS>> THE LIFESTYLE HAS ALWAYS CREATED A FRATERNITY AMONG FIREFIGHTERS, BUT IT WAS A LOCAL FRATERNITY. NOW IT'S NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL, ISN'T IT?

TIM MANNING>> INDEED IT IS. THIS EVENT HAS UNITED THE FIRE SERVICE CERTAINLY ACROSS OUR NATION AND AROUND THE WORLD. IT WAS WITHIN HOURS AND CERTAINLY WITHIN DAYS WHERE MEMBERS OF OUR DEPARTMENT WERE HEADED TO NEW YORK TO HELP OUT THEIR FELLOW FIREFIGHTERS AND, WHILE THE CHANCES OF FINDING A SURVIVOR WITHIN THE RUBBLE HAD DIMINISHED, OUR FIREFIGHTERS CONTINUED TO GO BACK TO NEW YORK ON THEIR OWN TIME AS VOLUNTEERS TO OFFER THE EMOTIONAL SUPPORT THEY CAN TO THAT FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE MEMBERS. IT HAS UNITED THE FIRE SERVICE AND, FOR THAT MATTER, IT'S REKINDLED PATRIOTISM OF AMERICA ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WE'VE SEEN THAT.

VAL>> FANTASTIC. CAPTAIN GREG AVERY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN AND TALKING TO US. CHIEF TIM MANNING, THANK YOU AS WELL. AND THANK YOU FOR BEING THERE WHEN IT MATTERED.

JESS>> IT HAS BEEN CALLED A DEMOCRACY OF PHOTOGRAPHS. THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE A TRAVELING EXHIBIT THAT FOCUSES ON THE MANY PERSONAL STORIES FROM SEPTEMBER 11.

VAL>> SNAPSHOTS FROM ORDINARY CITIZENS ARE ON DISPLAY ALONGSIDE THE WORK OF TOP PHOTOJOURNALISTS. THE UNIQUE SHOW IS CALLED "HERE IS NEW YORK", BUT IT'S BEING EXPANDED TO INCLUDE PHOTOGRAPHS FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY. TONIGHT HERE'S A LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE IMAGES AS THE EXHIBIT WAS ABOUT TO LEAVE NEW YORK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE THESE IMAGES IN PERSON, HERE IS WHERE YOU SHOULD GO. THEY'RE AT TRACK 16 GALLERY. THAT'S THE TRACK 16 GALLERY AT BERGAMOT STATION IN SANTA MONICA. FOR MORE INFORMATION, YOU CAN LOG ON TO THE GALLERY'S WEBSITE, WWW.TRACK16.COM.

VAL>> YOU KNOW, IT WAS INTERESTING. CHIEF MANNING WAS SAYING THEY WERE THERE FOR ABOUT TEN DAYS HELPING TO SEARCH AND HE SAYS, UP UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE BEFORE THEY HAD TO LEAVE, THEY STILL HAD HOPE OF FINDING SOMEONE. AMAZING PEOPLE.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE TOMORROW NIGHT AT 7:00 P.M.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.


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