2/4/02

LC020204

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> RITALIN IS OFTEN PRESCRIBED FOR HYPERACTIVE CHILDREN, BUT NOW ADULTS ARE USING IT AND SOME SAY THEY'RE GETTING HOOKED.

GAY YEE>> ELIZABETH WURTZEL NEVER DREAMED RITALIN COULD BECOME ADDICTIVE AND SHE SOON FOUND OUT THAT WAS A BIG MISTAKE.

ELIZABETH WURTZEL>> I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO DESCRIBE CRUSHING UP FORTY PILLS A DAY AND SNORTING THEM AND NOT BEING ABLE TO STOP.

VAL>> A FOURTH OF ALL LAW-ABIDING CALIFORNIANS HAVE NO HEALTH INSURANCE, SO HOW IS IT THAT A CONVICTED FELON GETS A $200,000 HEART TRANSPLANT WHILE HE'S BEHIND BARS? JUDGE KEVIN ROSS IS HERE TO EXPLAIN THE LAW AND HOW IT APPLIES TO PRISON INMATES IN NEED OF EXTRAORDINARY MEDICAL CARE.

JESS>> IT'S A FAR CRY FROM THE DAYS OF CREATING CARTOON CHARACTERS BY HAND. TODAY ANIMATORS CAN DRAW MICKEY WITH A MOUSE. BUT COMPUTER POWER ALONE ISN'T ENOUGH. IT STILL TAKES THE HUMAN TOUCH TO PRODUCE A BOX OFFICE HIT SUCH AS "MONSTERS, INC." TONIGHT YOU'LL MEET ONE OF THE NEW MASTERS WHO BRINGS MONSTERS AND OTHER ANIMATED CHARACTERS TO LIFE.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

RITALIN IS A DRUG PRESCRIBED FOR MILLIONS OF HYPERACTIVE CHILDREN. BY MOST ACCOUNTS, IT IMPROVES THEIR CONCENTRATION. BUT NOW MANY ADULTS ARE USING RITALIN AND SOME ARE CLAIMING THEY'RE ADDICTED.

VAL>> THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF THE DRUG IN THIS COUNTRY. IN FACT, AMERICANS CONSUME NINETY PERCENT OF ALL THE RITALIN THAT IS PRODUCED WORLDWIDE. BUT AS GAY YEE REPORTS, SOME PEOPLE ARE LEARNING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS THE HARD WAY.

GAY>> ELIZABETH WURTZEL BECAME A MEDIA STAR WITH HER FIRST BOOK, A CONTROVERSIAL MEMOIR CALLED "PROZAC NATION". BUT EVEN AS SHE WAS BECOMING FAMOUS, WURTZEL WAS STILL BATTLING DEPRESSION, A CONDITION THAT HAD PLAGUED HER MOST OF HER LIFE. THAT'S WHEN HER DOCTORS DECIDED TO BOOST THE EFFECTS OF THE PROZAC SHE WAS ALREADY TAKING WITH ANOTHER DRUG: RITALIN.

ELIZABETH WURTZEL>> IT STARTS OUT I WAS TAKING -- I WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE FOUR A DAY AND THEN I NOTICED THAT I COULD, YOU KNOW, SNORT IT. THEN I REALIZED THAT IF I WERE SNORTING IT, IT WOULDN'T BE AS EFFECTIVE FOR AS LONG, SO I NOTICED THAT I'D HAVE TO TAKE EIGHT A DAY. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SLOWLY THIS GOES UP AND UP AND UP UNTIL, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY IT'S FORTY A DAY.

GAY>> MOST PEOPLE KNOW RITALIN AS A TREATMENT FOR CHILDREN WHO SUFFER FROM HYPERACTIVITY OR ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER. THAT'S ALL WURTZEL KNEW ABOUT RITALIN AND SHE NEVER DREAMED IT COULD BECOME ADDICTIVE AND SHE SOON FOUND OUT THAT WAS A BIG MISTAKE.

ELIZABETH WURTZEL>> I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO DESCRIBE CRUSHING UP FORTY PILLS A DAY AND SNORTING THEM AND NOT BEING ABLE TO STOP. IF YOU ASSUME THAT THE WAY TO DESCRIBE ADDICTION IS SOMETHING YOU WANT TO STOP AND CAN'T, THEN, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.

GAY>> RITALIN IS A MILD STIMULANT. ITS EFFECTS ARE SIMILAR TO AMPHETAMINES WHICH SHARE SOME PROPERTIES WITH COCAINE AND METHAMPHETAMINES. BUT WHEN USED AS PRESCRIBED, RITALIN HAS BEEN WIDELY VIEWED IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY AS A VALUABLE MEDICATION.

DR. JAMES MCGOUGH>> WELL, WE HAVE OVER SIXTY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE GIVING MEDICATIONS FOR ADHD AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY UNDENIABLE THAT MEDICATIONS REDUCE ADHD SYMPTOMS.

GAY>> DR. JAMES MCGOUGH IS A PROFESSOR OF CHILD AND ADOLESCENT PSYCHIATRY AT UCLA SCHOOL OF MEDICINE.

DR. JAMES MCGOUGH>> THIS IS A BIOLOGICALLY BASED BRAIN DISORDER. IF YOU HAVE ADHD, YOU REALLY HAVE AN INVITATION FOR A LIFE OF DYSFUNCTION AND IMPAIRMENT. IT MAY BE THAT, BY MEDICATING THESE CHILDREN, PARTICULARLY EARLY ON, YOU'RE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE CORE BRAIN DYSFUNCTION THAT REALLY DESCRIBES SOME OF THE OTHER DIFFICULTIES.

GAY>> AN ESTIMATED SIX MILLION AMERICANS TAKE RITALIN EVERY DAY AND MANY, BOTH CHILDREN AND ADULTS, HAVE EXPERIENCED SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT. BUT AS THE NUMBER OF PRESCRIPTIONS HAS CONTINUED TO RISE, SO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WIDESPREAD USE OF THE DRUG. THE PROBLEM MAY COME WHEN DOCTORS AND PATIENTS UNDERESTIMATE RITALIN'S POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS.

DR. DAVID VELKOFF>> WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH CHILDREN, A PHYSICIAN REALLY HAS TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF SAFETY AND CONSERVATIVE BIAS IS WARRANTED. IT CAN'T BE A GOOD THING IN MEDICATING THESE CHILDREN LIKE IT'S BEING DONE TODAY

GAY>> DR. DAVID VELKOFF IS MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF THE DRAKE INSTITUTE. HE HAS MAJOR CONCERNS ABOUT RITALIN'S SIDE EFFECTS AND TREATS ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER WITHOUT DRUGS.

DR. DAVID VELKOFF>> IF I HAVE SOMEONE COME HERE, A TEENAGER WHO'S BEEN ON RITALIN FOR SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS, THEY'RE NOT A NORMAL CHILD ANYMORE, AND IT'S NOT THE ADHD. THE DRUGS SEEM TO NEUROLOGICALLY REALLY COMPROMISE THEM AND THEY CAN'T EXIST WITHOUT IT. THEY CAN'T PERFORM WITHOUT IT.

GAY>> DR. VELKOFF BELIEVES RITALIN CAN BE ADDICTIVE EVEN FOR YOUNG CHILDREN AND HE ALSO FEARS GIVING MEDICATION TO KIDS LAYS THE FOUNDATION FOR PROBLEMS IN ADULTHOOD.

DR. DAVID VELKOFF>> WHEN YOU'RE GIVING A CHILD A DRUG CHRONICALLY EVERY DAY, YOU'RE GIVING THEM A MESSAGE: YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. TAKE A DRUG. THIS IS A DISORDER THAT ALREADY HAS POOR IMPULSE CONTROL AND POOR SOCIAL JUDGMENT.

ELIZABETH WURTZEL>> I'VE SPOKEN TO MANY COLLEGE STUDENTS AND IT'S JUST COMMON FOR THEM TO -- THEY WERE PUT ON IT WHEN THEY WERE LITTLE AND THEY NEVER WENT OFF OF IT. THEN THEY'RE SELLING IT TO THEIR FRIENDS FOR ONE OR TWO DOLLARS, THEIR FRIENDS ARE -- ONE GUY TOLD ME THAT IT'S COMMON TO TAKE THREE AT A TIME, CRUSH THEM UP AND SNORT THEM. YOU KNOW, THEY'VE FIGURED IT OUT THAT THERE'S SOME RECREATIONAL USE FOR THEM. WHAT EVENTUALLY HAPPENED TO ME WHEN I COULD NO LONGER GET RITALIN WAS THAT I SWITCHED TO COCAINE AND IT WAS NO DIFFERENT. IT WAS THE SAME EXACT FEELING. SAME THING. I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHAT THE DIFFERENCE WAS.

GAY>> IT'S UNCLEAR WHETHER ELIZABETH WURTZEL'S EXPERIENCE IS TYPICAL OR AN ANOMALY. IT'S ALSO UNKNOWN WHETHER GIVING RITALIN TO CHILDREN LEADS TO DRUG ADDICTION AS ADULTS. TWO LARGE STUDIES SHOW CONFLICTING RESULTS.

DR. JAMES MCGOUGH>> YOU DO GET A FEW INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE ULTERIOR MOTIVES AND MAY BE INDIVIDUALLY ABUSING THE DRUG, BUT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE AT ALL THAT THAT'S A WIDESPREAD PROBLEM AND CERTAINLY THE BENEFITS OF BEING ON THE MEDICINE FAR OUTWEIGH THAT OTHER RISK.

GAY>> ALL WURTZEL KNOWS FOR SURE IS IT TOOK HER TWO YEARS TO BREAK FREE FROM HER OWN ADDICTION TO RITALIN.

ELIZABETH WURTZEL>> I ONLY KNOW MY EXPERIENCE AND I KNOW THAT IT'S PROBABLY A PERFECTLY GOOD DRUG TAKEN CORRECTLY. I'VE BEEN ON PROZAC AND ITS VARIANCE FOR A LONG TIME AND I HATE HEARING PEOPLE SAY THAT IT'S CATEGORICALLY DANGEROUS BECAUSE IT CERTAINLY HASN'T BEEN FOR ME. IT HAS SAVED MY LIFE. BUT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.

JESS>> GAY JOINS US NOW. THERE IS CONCERN THAT ADD AND HYPERACTIVITY ARE OVER-DIAGNOSED AND EQUAL CONCERN THAT RITALIN IS OVER-PRESCRIBED.

GAY>> WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY OUT THERE AND READILY AVAILABLE, AND WHY IS THAT SO? BECAUSE A LOT OF DOCTORS ARE PRESCRIBING IT. SO YOU WONDER WHY SO MANY PEOPLE ARE PRESCRIBING IT.

VAL>> I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT PART OF THE REASON IT'S EASY FOR IT TO BE PRESCRIBED IS THAT THERE IS NO QUANTITATIVE CRITERIA UPON WHICH TO BASE WHETHER YOU ARE EASILY --

GAY>> -- IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE.

VAL>> VERY SUBJECTIVE. SO YOU CAN JUST GO IN AND SAY I HAVE TROUBLE CONCENTRATING OR MY KID IS --

GAY>> -- OR MY CHILD IS HYPERACTIVE AND I NEED SOMETHING TO HELP HIM SETTLE DOWN --

VAL>> -- RITALIN.

GAY>> -- AND AS IT TURNS OUT, WITHIN THE LAST TEN YEARS BETWEEN 1990 TO 1999, THE PRESCRIPTION RATES WENT UP 500 TIMES. THE LAST FIGURES ARE ONE IN THIRTY BETWEEN THE AGES OF FIVE AND NINETEEN HAVE A PRESCRIPTION.

VAL>> ONE IN THIRTY?

GAY>> ONE IN THIRTY.

JESS>> IS THIS BOYS ALONE OR BOYS AND GIRLS?

GAY>> BOYS AND GIRLS.

JESS>> BOYS AND GIRLS. TEACHERS WHO ARE TRYING TO CONTROL HYPERACTIVE AND NORMALLY ACTIVE STUDENTS, THIRTY IN A CLASSROOM, ARE OCCASIONALLY GIVEN TO TALKING TO PARENTS ABOUT GETTING THEIR CHILD ON RITALIN TOO.

GAY>> IT'S BECOME THE POPULAR THING AND THE CRITICS ARE SAYING THAT PERHAPS THESE ARE ISSUES THAT COULD BE TAKEN CARE OF THROUGH DISCIPLINE, BUT BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE JUMPED ON THIS PARTICULAR BANDWAGON, THIS IS A POPULAR WAY OF GOING.

JESS>> THANK YOU, GAY.

VAL>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> THE WOMAN WE SAW IN GAY'S STORY, ELIZABETH WURTZEL, HAS WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT HER EXPERIENCES. IT IS CALLED "MORE, NOW, AGAIN", A MEMOIR OF ADDICTION.

VAL>> TOMORROW NIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES, WE FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL IN THE RACE FOR CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR. TWO OF THE CANDIDATES ARE MILLIONAIRES AND TWO AREN'T, BUT ALL OF THEM ARE GETTING DONATIONS. WE'LL LOOK AT THE SOURCES OF SOME OF THAT CAMPAIGN CASH IN A LIFE AND TIMES "REALITY CHECK".

JESS>> A CONTROVERSIAL HEART TRANSPLANT TOOK PLACE LAST MONTH AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER AND IT HAS ANGERED SOME PEOPLE. THAT'S BECAUSE THE NEW HEART WENT TO A PRISON INMATE, A CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER, AND THE OPERATION COULD COST TAXPAYERS A MILLION DOLLARS OR MORE.

VAL>> THIS AT A TIME WHEN A QUARTER OF ALL WORKING CALIFORNIANS ARE GOING WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE, YET IT WAS ALL LEGAL. WELL, JOINING US NOW TO EXPLAIN THIS IS OUR REGULAR LEGAL EXPERT, SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS. NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

KEVIN ROSS>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

JESS>> NOT ONLY LEGAL, BUT REQUIRED, WASN'T IT?

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY, UNDER THE EIGHTH AMENDMENT.

VAL>> OKAY, EXPLAIN.

KEVIN ROSS>> EIGHTH AMENDMENT, BILL OF RIGHTS, RATIFIED, WHAT, 1791. THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT SAID YOU CANNOT ENGAGE IN CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT IF SOMEONE IS INCARCERATED. SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS, IF SOMEONE HAS A MEDICAL CONDITION AND YOU EXERCISE WHAT IS CALLED "DELIBERATE INDIFFERENCE", WHETHER YOU DON'T TREAT THE PERSON OR YOU DON'T GIVE THEM -- ONCE THE TREATMENTS HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN AND YOU DON'T CONTINUE TO DO THAT, THAT'S GROUNDS FOR A CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION AND THE STATE CAN BE SUED.

VAL>> SO THIS GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO OUR CONSTITUTION?

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> IT'S NOT JUST A STATUTE OR A REGULATION?

KEVIN ROSS>> NO, AND THE SUPREME COURT HAS ACTUALLY RULED -- INITIALLY IT WAS IN 1976, IT WAS A TEXAS CASE, AN INMATE WAS COMPLAINING OF BACK INJURIES. THE STATE WAS BASICALLY -- YOU KNOW, TEXAS IS KNOWN FOR NOT BEING TOO KIND TO ITS INMATES -- (LAUGHTER) BASICALLY, HE SUED BECAUSE HE WAS SAYING I NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION AND THAT'S WHEN THIS CONCEPT INITIALLY -- REALLY, WE STARTED SEEING THE SUPREME COURT TAKE A MORE ACTIVE ROLE IN THESE CASES.

VAL>> DID THAT CASE GO ALL THE WAY UP TO THE SUPREME COURT?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, THE SUPREME COURT MADE A RULING ON THAT CASE AND BASICALLY SAID THAT THERE IS SOMETHING UNDER THE EIGHTH AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS THAT YOU CANNOT TREAT INMATES AS -- WHAT'S THE WORD --

VAL>> -- SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS --

KEVIN ROSS>> -- RIGHT. BARBARIC TREATMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

JESS>> WELL, THIS INMATE SUFFERED CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE.

KEVIN ROSS>> YES.

JESS>> AS WITH MANY WHO ARE SEEKING HEART TRANSPLANTS, THERE IS A LONG WAITING LIST FOR AVAILABLE HEARTS. THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THAT WAITING LIST HAVE GOT TO BE ANGERED THAT THE HEART WENT TO A CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER.

KEVIN ROSS>> HERE IS THE DILEMMA THAT THE STATE IS IN. IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAS SOME SORT OF CONDITION -- IN THIS CASE, IT WAS A HEART -- THEY'RE PUT ON A LIST. NOW ON THAT LIST IT DOESN'T SAY THIS PERSON IS A GOOD PERSON, THIS PERSON IS A BAD PERSON, THIS PERSON IS IN JAIL. IT JUST HAS THE NAMES OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND LISTS THOSE CHARACTERISTICS. THEY CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO FLAG INDIVIDUALS TO SAY THAT THEY SHOULD NOT GET THIS OPPORTUNITY.

NOW WHERE THERE MAY BE AN ISSUE, LET'S JUST SAY THAT THE PERSON HAS NOT TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THEIR HEALTH OR THEY HAVEN'T BEEN GOING TO A REGULAR DOCTOR'S VISITS AND SO FORTH. THEY MAY BE ABLE TO TAKE THOSE FACTORS INTO ACCOUNT, WHETHER OR NOT THEY DELIBERATELY ENGAGED IN SUBSTANCE ABUSE THAT WORSENED THEIR CONDITION.

VAL>> SO OTHER MEDICAL BEHAVIORS CAN BE KNOWN ABOUT THE PERSON?

KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT. SO IF YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE THAT ARE EQUALLY MATCHED AND ONE PERSON HAS BEEN DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN AND THEY STILL HAVE THIS CONDITION, AND THE OTHER PERSON HAS JUST NOT BEEN --

VAL>> -- NOT TAKING CARE OF HIMSELF?

KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT. THE REALITY IS, MOST INMATES DON'T TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. THEY DON'T GO TO THE DOCTOR. THEY DON'T GET CHECKUPS. PREGNANT INMATES DON'T GET PRENATAL. SO WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS AND THEY GET INTO THESE 33 PRISONS IN THE STATE, THEY START BASICALLY SAYING, OKAY, I NEED MY TEETH CHECKED, I NEED MY EYES CHECKED, I NEED MY PROZAC, AND WE HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT FOR THEM.

VAL>> WELL, DO WE KNOW IF THIS PARTICULAR INMATE WHO GOT THE TRANSPLANT WAS TAKING GOOD CARE OF HIMSELF?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, AT THE POINT THAT THE TRANSPLANT WAS ACTUALLY UNDERTAKEN, HE WAS IN CRITICAL CONDITION. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, WHAT SOME STATES WILL DO IS BASICALLY SOMETHING CALLED "COMPASSIONATE RELEASE" WHERE THEY WILL RELEASE INMATES WHO ARE VERY ILL TO AVOID PAYING THEIR MEDICAL BILLS.

VAL>> OH, INTERESTING.

JESS>> IN THIS CASE, THE INMATE HAD HIS SURGERY AT ONE OF THE PREMIER MEDICAL INSTITUTIONS IN THE COUNTRY, STANFORD.

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, EVEN IN THAT SITUATION, THEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE DOCTORS' TAKE. YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, OKAY, THIS PERSON IS A PRISONER. WE WERE SEEING AN EPISODE OF "ER" AND THE MAIN CHARACTER HAD TO DEAL WITH THE REPERCUSSIONS OF TREATING SOMEONE WHO HE KNEW HAD JUST COMMITTED THIS HORRIBLE CRIME. SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE THEY'RE NOT -- BECAUSE THIS PERSON IS IN PRISON, I'M NOT GOING TO TREAT THEM. THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE THEM THE SAME CARE.

JESS>> SO IT'S NOT JUST THE CONSTITUTION, IT'S THE HIPPOCRATIC OATH ALSO.

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. WELL, NOW, SOME STATES, YOU SAY, CHOOSE TO RELEASE THE PRISONER. I WONDER WAS THERE ANY INDICATION THAT CALIFORNIA AUTHORITIES CONSIDERED THAT --

KEVIN ROSS>> -- CALIFORNIA ALSO ALLOWS FOR THAT COMPASSIONATE RELEASE, BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS, IT HAS TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE USUALLY THE PERSON HAS LESS THAN SIX MONTHS TO LIVE --

JESS>> -- LET HIM GO HOME TO DIE.

KEVIN ROSS>> LET HIM GO HOME AND GIVE HIM A LITTLE DIGNITY. BUT IF IT'S A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE AT DEATH OR IT'S AT A CRITICAL PHASE, IT WOULD BE KIND OF COLD TO JUST SAY, WELL, YOU'RE OUT NOW. AND WE HAVE THESE ISSUES OF THREE STRIKES. FROM A STANDPOINT OF PEOPLE WHO -- AS THE POPULATION IS STARTING TO AGE, THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE IN PRISON, JUST SAY IN THEIR THIRTIES AND THEY'RE IN JAIL FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY.

VAL>> SO WE'RE GOING TO BE SEEING MORE OF THESE CASES AS OUR INMATE POPULATION AGES AND HAS ALL SORTS OF MEDICAL NEEDS.

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THINGS LIKE HEPATITIS C, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT AIDS, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE THINGS THAT THEY COULD BE SUBJECTED TO AND NOW THEY'RE IN PRISON, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO GET MEDICAL TREATMENT AND THEY BASICALLY HAVE TO BE COVERED, ALTHOUGH TO THE AVERAGE AMERICAN, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

JESS>> AND COST CAN'T BE A CONSIDERATION BECAUSE, AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS COULD COST STATE TAXPAYERS A MILLION DOLLARS, MAYBE MORE?

VAL>> OVER THE COURSE, INCLUDING ALL THE FOLLOW-UP CARE.

KEVIN ROSS>> AND NOT ONLY CAN COST NOT BE A FACTOR, BUT THIS YEAR, CALIFORNIA SPENT ALMOST $700 MILLION DOLLARS NOT ON FOOD FOR THE INMATES, NOT ON CLOTHING, BUT JUST FOR THEIR MEDICAL.

VAL>> WELL, NOW, KEVIN, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE -- THERE'S ALREADY A HUGE OUTCRY ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR CASE BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS SO UNFAIR. YOU HAVE LAW-ABIDING WORKING CALIFORNIANS WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH CHILDREN AND LIVING GOOD LIVES --

KEVIN ROSS>> -- A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE HEALTHCARE.

VAL>> -- PAYING TAXES. THEY DON'T HAVE HEALTHCARE AND IF THEY HAD CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE, SORRY, IF YOU DIE, YOU DIE. IT SEEMS SO UNFAIR.

JESS>> YOU NEED A HEART TRANSPLANT? ROB A BANK.

VAL>> THAT'S WHAT SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING. DO YOU THINK THAT THIS WILL CAUSE SOME CHANGE IN THE LAW OR IS IT, BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO OUR CONSTITUTION, IT'S JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, IT'S SO IMBEDDED IN OUR SYSTEM. WE ARE A COUNTRY OF LAWS. I MEAN, THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE AT GUANTANAMO BAY RIGHT NOW AND TRYING TO DECIDE, WELL, SHOULD WE BE TALKING TO THEM WITHOUT A LAWYER? ARE THEY PRISONERS OF WAR? I MEAN, THESE ARE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE DECIDED AS A NATION.

THE REALITY IS, WHEN WE START LOOKING AT THINGS, LET'S LOCK ALL THESE PEOPLE UP, WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FEEDING THEM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CLOTHING THEM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MEDICAL AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT ASPECTS. WE'RE IN AN ELECTION YEAR, SO WHEN YOU HEAR SOMEONE SAYING LET'S BE TOUGH ON CRIME, WE'VE GOT TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT.

JESS>> THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. VERY INTERESTING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING US UP TO DATE ON THAT. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE HEARING A LOT ABOUT THESE CASES. THANK YOU, SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS.

JESS>> TIME NOW TO DIP INTO THE LIFE AND TIMES MAILBAG. ON MONDAY, WE TALKED ABOUT THE TUITION CHANGES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA. IT MEANS SOME ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WILL PAY THE SAME LOWER IN-STATE FEES AS CITIZEN RESIDENTS OF CALIFORNIA. SEVERAL VIEWERS WROTE TO SAY OUR COVERAGE WAS TOO ONE-SIDED. HERE'S A SAMPLE.

"I DON'T KNOW OF A SINGLE PERSON WHO THINKS THIS IS ANYTHING BUT A SLAP IN THE FACE OF PEOPLE WHO IMMIGRATE AND LIVE HERE LEGALLY. I GUESS I'D HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION OFTEN HEARD, WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?"

VAL>> AND L.A. POLICE CHIEF, BERNARD PARKS, WAS HERE RECENTLY TO ANSWER CRITICS WHO SAY HE SHOULDN'T SERVE A SECOND TERM. WELL, A VIEWER WHO HAD NEVER SEEN CHIEF PARKS BEFORE WRITES:

"I CAME AWAY THINKING THE CHIEF IS A PRETTY BRIGHT, ARTICULATE, INTELLIGENT MAN. AS FAR AS THE RACE CARD GOES, I THINK THE CHIEF HAS TO BE TWICE AS GOOD BECAUSE HE IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN."

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

VAL>> 2001 MAY BE LOOKED UPON AS THE YEAR COMPUTER ANIMATION CAME OF AGE AND YOU'RE ABOUT TO MEET THE MASTERMIND BEHIND SOME OF HOLLYWOOD'S BEST ANIMATED FILMS.

JESS>> HIS NAME IS JOHN LASSETER. HIS WORK INCLUDES "TOY STORY 1", "TOY STORY 2", "A BUG'S LIFE" AND HIS LATEST HIT, "MONSTERS, INC."

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> "MONSTERS, INC." IS A PRODUCT OF PIXAR STUDIOS. PIXAR HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF COMPUTER ANIMATION SINCE THE MID-80'S. SINCE THEN, COMPUTER IMAGERY HAS ADVANCED AT LIGHTNING SPEED, MUCH OF IT THANKS TO JOHN LASSETER.

VAL>> AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT JOHN LASSETER'S ART CAREER BEGAN AT AGE FIVE WHEN HE WON A $15.00 PRIZE FOR DRAWING A PICTURE OF A HEADLESS HORSEMAN, SO YOU'RE CAREER GOES --

JOHN LASSETER>> -- THAT'S RIGHT, A MARKET IN WHITTIER, CALIFORNIA, WHERE I GREW UP.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) YOU HAD TO DRAW -- A LITTLE COMPETITION FOR A DRAWING?

JOHN LASSETER>> WELL, YOU KNOW HOW THE NEWSPAPERS USED TO SEND OUT THE SPECIALS AND THEY WERE BLACK AND WHITE? REMEMBER THAT? WE FIRST MOVED TO WHITTIER FROM PICO RIVERA AND IT WAS A HEADLESS HORSEMAN. MY MOTHER WAS AN ART TEACHER FOR 38 YEARS AT BELL GARDENS HIGH SCHOOL. JEWEL LASSETER, FOR THOSE BELL GARDENS GRADUATES, (LAUGHTER) OR MRS. LASSETER, I SUPPOSE, IS WHAT SHE'D LIKE TO BE CALLED.

BUT IT WAS A HEADLESS HORSEMAN. I REMEMBER AS A KID WALKING UP TO THE FRONT OF THE MARKET AND THEY WERE ALL TAPED UP THERE AND THERE WAS MINE WAY AT THE TOP AND IT HAD A LITTLE "FIRST PLACE" STICKER. THEY GAVE ME $15.00 AND THEY HANDED ME A $5 AND A $10 DOLLAR BILL. I LOOKED AT IT AND IT WAS LIKE -- AND THEY GO WHAT'S WRONG, JOHN? I THOUGHT I WAS GETTING $15.00. THIS IS JUST TWO DOLLARS. (LAUGHTER) SO THE BUTCHER TOOK ME BACK AND HE GOT ME CHANGE AND HE PUT A BIG PAPER CLIP ON IT AND HE HANDED IT TO ME AND I WAS LIKE, YEAH, FIFTEEN SINGLE DOLLARS.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) FIFTEEN SINGLES. YOU HAVE COME A LONG WAY SINCE THEN.

JESS>> BUT THAT LONG WAY WAS FROM WHITTIER, BUT VIA CALARTS?

JOHN LASSETER>> CALARTS, YEAH. CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF THE ARTS IN VALENCIA. I WENT THERE. I WAS IN THE VERY FIRST YEAR OF A PROGRAM CALLED THE CHARACTER ANIMATION PROGRAM. IT WAS 1975.

JESS>> YOU'D NEVER MAKE A LIVING DOING THAT. (LAUGHTER)

JOHN LASSETER>> YOU KNOW WHAT? A LOT OF MY FELLOW STUDENTS WERE TOLD THAT. YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY INTERESTING. IT'S SO SURPRISING HOW, I THINK, THE ARTS ARE NOT THOUGHT OF AS --

JESS>> -- AS REAL WORK?

JOHN LASSETER>> AS REAL WORK. BUT WITH MY MOTHER BEING AN ART TEACHER, I WAS BLESSED BY BEING BORN IN THAT FAMILY BECAUSE SHE ALWAYS FELT, AND MY DAD FELT, THAT BEING AN ARTIST WAS A REAL NOBLE PROFESSION, SO THEY ENCOURAGED ME. MY GOAL WAS ALWAYS TO BE AN ANIMATOR FOR DISNEY STUDIOS. THAT'S WHY I WENT TO CALARTS AND THEN WORKED AT DISNEY AS AN ANIMATOR.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF YOUR WORK AS WE'RE TALKING. NOW WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS, COMPUTER ANIMATION HAS COME A FANTASTIC WAY, BUT ONE OF THE CHALLENGES YOU HAD WITH THIS PARTICULAR STORY WAS FUR. EXPLAIN THAT.

JOHN LASSETER>> WELL, COMPUTER ANIMATION, BEING THAT IT'S REALLY MADE WITHIN A COMPUTER, LIKES TO MAKE THINGS VERY GEOMETRIC. THE MORE ORGANIC YOU GET IN THE WAY SOMETHING LOOKS OR MOVES, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO DO. HAIR, SKIN, CLOTHING, THESE THINGS ARE VERY HARD TO DO, ESPECIALLY FUR.

VAL>> BUT THINGS LIKE PLASTIC OR GLASS, SHINY THINGS, ARE EASY?

JOHN LASSETER>> RIGHT. THAT'S WHY THE SUBJECT MATTER OF OUR FIRST COMPUTER ANIMATED FEATURE FILM, "TOY STORY", THEY'RE ALL MADE OF PLASTIC, SO IT'S PERFECT, WHEREAS THE MAIN CHARACTER OF "MONSTERS, INC.", SULLEY, IS COMPLETELY COVERED IN FUR.

JESS>> HE IS HAIRY.

JOHN LASSETER>> IT WAS A REAL CHALLENGE, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT THE WAY IT MOVES, THE WAY HE MOVES, THE WAY IT BLOWS IN THE BREEZE, THERE'S ONE SCENE WHERE HE'S IN THE SNOW AND THE SNOW ACTUALLY STICKS TO THE FUR. IT'S REMARKABLE. NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER BEEN DONE AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE HALLMARKS OF PIXAR. WE'RE CONSTANTLY BREAKING NEW GROUND.

"TOY STORY" WAS THE FIRST COMPUTER ANIMATED FEATURE FILM WAY BACK IN 1995. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE, BUT BACK THEN PEOPLE CAME TO US AND SAID, YOU KNOW, ARE YOU REALLY SURE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO SIT THROUGH AN HOUR AND A HALF OF COMPUTER ANIMATION? COME ON, IT'S JUST SO COLD AND STERILE. BUT I KNEW FROM THAT -- YOU KNOW, I LEARNED WHEN I WAS AT DISNEY THAT IT'S NOT THE TECHNOLOGY THAT MAKES A FILM ENTERTAINING. IT'S THE STORY AND THE CHARACTERS. I KNEW IF WE COULD DO IT, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE STORY AND CHARACTERS. IF WE CAN MAKE IT GREAT, THEN IT WILL OPEN THE DOOR FOR THE WHOLE INDUSTRY AND MAKE IT GREAT.

JESS>> "A BUG'S LIFE" WAS A BIG HIT.

JOHN LASSETER>> "A BUG'S LIFE" WAS OUR SECOND FEATURE FILM AND IT IS AN EPIC OF MINIATURE PROPORTIONS AND IT WAS REALLY, REALLY FUN TO DO. WE'RE VERY PROUD OF THIS. WE HAD TO INVENT A WHOLE NEW WAY OF LIGHTING BECAUSE WE STUDIED INSECTS BY MAKING A LITTLE MINIATURE CAMERA AND PUTTING IT DOWN ON THE GROUND AND LOOKING AT THE GRASS BLADES AND THE UNDERSIDES OF FALLEN LEAVES.

WHAT WE FOUND IS, WHEN YOU'RE THAT SMALL, EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD IS TRANSLUCENT, RIGHT? EVERY BLADE OF GRASS, EVERY PETAL OF A FLOWER, EVERY FALLEN LEAF IS TRANSLUCENT. SO WE HAD TO CREATE A WHOLE NEW WAY OF LIGHTING THINGS TO LET LIGHT THROUGH, BUT MADE IT JUST TRANSLUCENT. THAT'S ACTUALLY TYPICAL OF WORKING AT PIXAR IN THIS MEDIUM OF COMPUTER ANIMATION. EVERYTHING WE DO IS SOMETHING NEW. IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF PIXAR, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALWAYS BROKEN NEW GROUND WITH EVERYTHING FROM OUR FIRST SHORT FILM. "LUXO JR." WAS THE FIRST COMPUTER ANIMATED FILM EVER TO BE NOMINATED FOR AN ACADEMY AWARD IN 1986.

VAL>> IT WON?

JOHN LASSETER>> "TIN TOY" WON THE OSCAR IN 1988.

JESS>> AND "MONSTERS, INC." IS NOMINATED?

JOHN LASSETER>> WELL, WE HOPE --

VAL>> WELL, WE HOPE SO. THE NOMINATIONS --

JOHN LASSETER>> -- KNOCK ON WOOD. WE'RE HOPING THAT.

JESS>> EVERYBODY ASSUMES IT'S "MONSTERS, INC." AND "SHREK".

JOHN LASSETER>> WE ARE VERY, VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS YEAR. THIS YEAR IS A BANNER YEAR FOR ANIMATION BECAUSE I THINK WHAT'S EXCITING IS "TOY STORY", EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE NECESSARILY DIDN'T BELIEVE IN IT WHEN WE WERE MAKING IT, WE DID. IT CAME OUT AND WAS THE NUMBER ONE MOVIE RELEASED IN 1995. YOU KNOW, ANYBODY WHO HAS KIDS AND THOSE WE HOPE WHO DON'T HAVE KIDS HAVE ALL SEEN IT AND FALLEN IN LOVE WITH THE CHARACTERS. THEY REALIZE THAT THESE STORIES ARE MORE ABOUT THE CHARACTER'S STORY, NOT THE TECHNOLOGY.

BUT IT OPENED THE DOOR FOR A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE IN STUDIOS TO START MAKING. YOU KNOW, WE WERE HOPING THAT, IF WE COULD DO A GOOD JOB, IT WOULD BE LIKE SPACE MOVIES AFTER "STAR WARS". YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE DO IT. THIS YEAR, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE ANIMATED FILMS THAT HAVE COME OUT THIS YEAR, A GOOD PORTION OF THEM ARE COMPUTER ANIMATED AND, BOY, WHAT A VARIETY WE HAVE FROM "JIMMY NEUTRON" TO "FINAL FANTASY" WHICH IS VERY REALISTIC TO "SHREK" TO LAST YEAR'S "DINOSAUR" TO THE UPCOMING --

VAL>> -- SO YOU DON'T MIND THE COMPETITION?

JOHN LASSETER>> YOU KNOW WHAT? I'D MUCH RATHER WORK IN AN INDUSTRY THAT IS HEALTHY THAN ONE WHERE ALL THE OTHER FILMS COME OUT AND THEY BOMB. TO ME, I LOVE THIS MEDIUM OF ANIMATION AND I LOVE GETTING THIS TECHNOLOGY IN THE HANDS OF OTHER PEOPLE, YOU KNOW? I AM AMERICAN THROUGH AND THROUGH. I AM THE MOST COMPETITIVE PERSON ON THE PLANET, BUT THE WAY I COMPETE IS TO MAKE A GREAT MOVIE AND HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL LIKE IT.

JESS>> YOU'VE SUCCEEDED.

VAL>> JOHN LASSETER, IT'S A PLEASURE TO HEAR FROM YOU. BEST OF LUCK WHEN OSCAR TIME COMES AROUND.

JOHN LASSETER>> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME. THIS WAS REALLY A PLEASURE.

VAL>> OUR PLEASURE.

JESS>> THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR THE ACADEMY AWARDS WILL INCLUDE A CATEGORY FOR BEST COMPUTER ANIMATED FEATURE. IT IS EXPECTED THAT "MONSTERS, INC." WILL BE AMONG THE OSCAR NOMINEES.

VAL>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. REMEMBER, YOU CAN GET TRANSCRIPTS OF OUR PROGRAMS OR LISTEN TO THE AUDIO OF RECENT SHOWS ON OUR WEBSITE, WWW.KCET.ORG.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.