2/6/02

LC020206

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> WE'LL FOLLOW THE MONEY IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR. WHO'S GIVING ALL THAT CASH AND HOW MUCH NASTIER CAN THOSE TELEVISION COMMERCIALS GET?

>> I DON'T LIKE MUDSLINGING IN ANY CAMPAIGN, SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT TOO CRAZY ABOUT THAT. I'D RATHER THEY ADDRESS THE ISSUES RATHER THAN TAKING SHOTS AT EACH OTHER.

VAL>> IT'S RONALD REAGAN'S 91ST BIRTHDAY. THAT'S A MILESTONE NOT JUST FOR HIM, BUT FOR AMERICAN HISTORY. TONIGHT WE'LL MARK THE OCCASION BY VISITING WITH REAGAN BIOGRAPHER, LOU CANNON.

LOU CANNON>> REAGAN WAS ONCE DISMISSED, YOU KNOW, AS AN AMIABLE DUNCE. I THINK THAT WHETHER YOU LIKE REAGAN OR DISLIKE HIM OR WHATEVER YOUR VIEW OF REAGAN, WHATEVER YOUR POLITICS, WHEN YOU SEE THESE DOCUMENTS, YOU REALIZE THAT THIS WAS A PRETTY SMART PRESIDENT.

JESS>> IT'S THE BANE OF URBAN EXISTENCE: WHERE TO PARK? TONIGHT HUMORIST CALVIN TRILLIN PONDERS THE PROBLEM IN A CONVERSATION WITH PATT MORRISON.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> I THINK ALL CITIES IN AMERICA HAVE PARKING PROBLEMS AND I HEAR ALL KINDS OF HORROR STORIES AS I GO AROUND THE COUNTRY. BUT NEW YORK IS A PARTICULAR -- YOU KNOW THAT OLD FRANK SINATRA SONG ABOUT NEW YORK? IF YOU CAN PARK IT HERE, YOU'LL PARK IT ANYWHERE.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.


VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

IT'S BEEN CALLED THE MOTHER'S MILK OF POLITICS: COLD HARD CASH. AND IT'S ALREADY FLOWING IN THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR'S RACE. BUT WHERE'S ALL THAT MONEY COMING FROM AND WHY IS IT BEING SPENT SO EARLY?

VAL>> TONIGHT SOME ANSWERS FROM A LIFE AND TIMES "REALITY CHECK". CINNY KENNARD FOLLOWS THE MONEY IN WHAT COULD BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE POLITICAL RACE IN CALIFORNIA HISTORY.

CINNY KENNARD>> IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE, BUT CALIFORNIA VOTERS ARE ALREADY GETTING A HEAVY DOSE OF AN EARLIER-THAN-USUAL TELEVISION AD WAR. INCUMBENT GOVERNOR, GRAY DAVIS, HAS FIRED THE LATEST SALVO, THE WIDELY SEEN AD ATTACKING REPUBLICAN RICHARD RIORDAN ON ABORTION.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> "BEING FAIRLY LIBERAL-MINDED, I SURPRISE MYSELF THAT MY EMOTIONS ON THE ABORTION ISSUE....BECAUSE I FEEL VERY -- I THINK IT'S MURDER."

CINNY KENNARD>> IT'S ALL PART OF DAVIS'S BLISTERING AD CAMPAIGN THAT'S RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT RIORDAN'S FENCE-STRADDLING ON THE ABORTION ISSUE. THE IRONY IS, RIORDAN IS NOT EVEN THE GOP CANDIDATE. HE MUST FIRST COMPETE AGAINST GOP RIVALS IN A MARCH PRIMARY. STILL, DAVIS HAS ALREADY TARGETED RIORDAN AS THE LIKELY WINNER.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> "I BELIEVE IN TAKING RESPONSIBILITY AND BEING ACCOUNTABLE. UNFORTUNATELY, GOVERNOR DAVIS THINKS DIFFERENTLY. INSTEAD OF OUTLINING HIS PLANS FOR OUR FUTURE, HE HAS CHOSEN TO ATTACK ME PERSONALLY."

CINNY KENNARD>> IT COULD ALL BE A RISKY STRATEGY TURNING OFF SOME CALIFORNIA VOTERS WHO HAPPEN TO BE TUNED IN.

>> I DON'T LIKE MUDSLINGING IN ANY CAMPAIGN, SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT TOO CRAZY ABOUT THAT. I'D RATHER THEY ADDRESS THE ISSUES RATHER THAN TAKING SHOTS AT EACH OTHER. I THINK WE'D ALL BE BETTER OFF FOR THAT.

CINNY KENNARD>> BUT THE CANDIDATES KEEP COLLECTING THE CASH TO KEEP BUYING UP CALIFORNIA TELEVISION AIRWAVES WHICH COST LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY, OVER A MILLION DOLLARS A WEEK. TAKE WEALTHY REPUBLICAN, RIORDAN, WHO COULD FOOT THE ENTIRE BILL FOR HIS REPUBLICAN PRIMARY CAMPAIGN. HE'S RAISED $8 MILLION DOLLARS, $4 MILLION IN JUST THE LAST QUARTER. AND THE OTHER MILLIONAIRE IN THE RACE, WILLIAM SIMON, HAS RAISED CLOSE TO $7 MILLION, TWO OF IT IN THE LAST QUARTER. BUT THE POOR MAN PERSONALLY IN THE RACE IS REPUBLICAN SECRETARY OF STATE, BILL JONES, WHO'S RAISED OVER $2 MILLION SO FAR. STILL, HE CLAIMS HE'S NOT BOTHERED BY HIS OPPONENTS' BUNDLES OF CASH.

BILL JONES>> THE IMPRESSION ALWAYS IS THAT POLITICS IS ALL MONEY, TOTALLY MONEY, AND CERTAINLY THE OTHER TWO CANDIDATES ARE FINANCIALLY VERY WELL OFF. BUT AS PRESIDENT PEROT, GOVERNOR [CHEKI] AND SENATOR HUFFINGTON KNOW, THAT IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE.

CINNY KENNARD>> THAT'S WHAT INCUMBENT DEMOCRAT, GRAY DAVIS, USED TO THINK TOO. BACK WHEN HE RAN FOR GOVERNOR FOUR YEARS AGO, HE MADE HIS OPPONENTS' WEALTH A CAMPAIGN ISSUE.

ANNOUNCER>> "WHEN YOU'RE ALONE IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD WON'T BUY YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO MAKE THE TOUGH DECISIONS."

CINNY KENNARD>> WHAT A DIFFERENCE FOUR YEARS MAKES. DAVIS NOW SEEMS TO BE COLLECTING "ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD" TO KEEP HIS JOB. HE HAS RAISED AT LEAST $36 MILLION DOLLARS. EVERYONE SEEMS TO WANT TO INVEST IN THE INCUMBENT.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> HE RAISES MONEY, OR HAS RAISED MONEY, FROM LARGE DEMOCRATIC IDEOLOGICAL GIVERS, LARGE DEMOCRATIC INVESTMENT GIVERS. HE RAISES MONEY BY SIMPLY GOING OUT THERE AND MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE CONTRIBUTORS TO SAY NO.

CINNY KENNARD>> AND THE GIVERS KEEP ON GIVING TO ALL THE CANDIDATES. DAVIS GETS HIS FROM LABOR UNIONS, THE PIPEFITTERS, THE TEACHERS, BUSINESSES AND HOLLYWOOD. RIORDAN GETS THE BULK OF HIS SUPPORT FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, SOME FROM HOLLYWOOD AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS FROM MEDIA TYCOON, JERRY PERENCHIO. REPUBLICAN SIMON IS HIS OWN BIGGEST CONTRIBUTOR. HE REACHED IN HIS POCKET TO PROVIDE A $1.6 MILLION DOLLAR LOAN AND HE HAS HELP FROM HIS BROTHER AND FRIENDS. IT'S BOUGHT HIM TV ADVERTISING WHICH ACTUALLY BOOSTED HIS NAME RECOGNITION. FIRST, HE USED FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR, RUDY GIULIANI, TO CARRY HIS MESSAGE. SIMON NOW APPEARS ON CAMERA FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS WEEK TO SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

BILL SIMON>> I'M RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR BECAUSE THE CAREER POLITICIANS HAVE FAILED US. FIRST AN ENERGY CRISIS AND THEN A $20 BILLION DOLLAR STATE BUDGET CRISIS, AND NOW THEY WANT TO RAISE OUR TAXES TO BAIL THEMSELVES OUT.

CINNY KENNARD>> REPUBLICAN BILL JONES HAS TURNED TO HIS BASE IN THE CENTRAL CALIFORNIA VALLEY WITH DONATIONS FROM RANCHERS AND FARMERS, BUT HE CAN'T YET AFFORD TV. SO HE'S USING THE INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY LOOKING FOR HELP. JONES APPEALS TO THE BIG RIG DRIVERS, ASKING THEM TO ATTACH SIGNS TO THEIR SEMIS AS THEY CRISS-CROSS CALIFORNIA. THIS IS ALL PART OF WHAT HAS BECOME A PROHIBITIVE CONTEST FOR MANY. TO RUN FOR CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR IS NOW LIKE BUILDING A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION WITH FINANCING AND TV ADVERTISING, A CAREER MORE AND MORE OPEN TO JUST THE SELECT FEW.

JESS>> CINNY KENNARD JOINS US NOW. SHE'S FORMER NETWORK CORRESPONDENT FOR CBS NEWS, AS WELL AS A VETERAN POLITICAL REPORTER. ALSO JOINING US IS ROY ULRICH FROM THE WATCHDOG GROUP, COMMON CAUSE.

IS IT -- THEY'RE STARTING SO EARLY, GATHERING SO MUCH MONEY, IS THERE NO LIMIT TO IT?

CINNY KENNARD>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE EARLY THIS YEAR BECAUSE THE PRIMARY HAS BEEN MOVED UP FROM JUNE TO MARCH. SO WE'VE GOT A DIFFERENT CALENDAR. THAT SORT OF SPED EVERYTHING UP.

JESS>> BUT IN THE ADS THAT ARE BEING -- YOU'D THINK THIS WAS THE GENERAL ELECTION, NOT THE PRIMARY.

CINNY KENNARD>> THERE'S NO QUESTION, THERE'S NO QUESTION. AND A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT, AS I SAID, THAT YOU HAVE THE INCUMBENT GOVERNOR TARGETING MR. RIORDAN ALREADY BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SOME POLLS THAT HAVE REFLECTED THAT MR. RIORDAN WILL BE A TOUGH OPPONENT SHOULD HE END UP EMERGING OUT OF THE MARCH PRIMARY.

JESS>> HE'S CLEARLY THE FRONT RUNNER.

CINNY KENNARD>> YES, YES, YES.

VAL>> AS IT SAID IN THE REPORT, MONEY IS ALREADY FLOWING IN. WE'VE SEEN HOW MONEY CAN, YOU KNOW, CONTAMINATE CONGRESS WITH THE ENRON SCANDAL. IS THERE ANY HOPE FOR TRUE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM HERE IN CALIFORNIA?

ROY ULRICH>> WELL, THERE IS BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE INITIATIVE PROCESS. WE CAN'T EXPECT THE LEGISLATURE TO ENACT CAMPAIGN REFORM. THEIR VERSION OF CAMPAIGN REFORM REPEALED TRUE CAMPAIGN REFORM. THEY PUT PROPOSITION 34 ON THE BALLOT IN 2000 AND WIPED OUT REAL REFORM, WHICH IS PROP 208, BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS ABOUT TO GO INTO EFFECT.

JESS>> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SUGGEST LIMITED SPENDING? YOU'RE GOING TO SUGGEST PUBLIC FINANCING OF CAMPAIGNS?

ROY ULRICH>> RIGHT. WELL, THEY WOULD BE CO-EQUAL. CANDIDATES WOULD TAKE MONEY AND, AS A CONDITION OF THEIR TAKING MONEY, YOU SAY TO THEM WILL YOU LIMIT SPENDING? IF YOU LIMIT SPENDING, WE GIVE YOU A PUBLIC FINANCING.

JESS>> BUT IN THIS RACE WHERE YOU HAVE TWO MULTI-MILLIONAIRES RUNNING, YOU CAN'T LIMIT WHAT THEY CAN SPEND ON THEMSELVES?

ROY ULRICH>> RIGHT. YOU'VE READ BUCKLEY VERSUS VALEO, JESS, AND THAT'S IN FACT WHAT IT SAYS. WE'RE NOT SUGGESTING THAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT BE REPEALED. WHAT WE ARE SUGGESTING IS THAT, AS PART OF A PUBLIC FINANCING STRUCTURE, IF A WEALTHY CANDIDATE SPENDS HIS OR HER OWN MONEY OR THIRD PARTIES COME IN AND SPEND THEIR MONEY, THAT THAT BE MATCHED WITH PUBLIC FINANCING. SO THERE'S A GREAT DISINCENTIVE TO SPEND ONE'S OWN MONEY.

VAL>> CINNY, WE'VE ALSO SEEN HOW THIS CAMPAIGN IS GOING TO BE RULED BY TV ADS. IT'S OFTEN CALLED THE THIRTY-SECOND CANDIDATE. IS THAT GOOD? BAD?

CINNY KENNARD>> WELL, THE OTHER THING THAT NEEDS REFORM IN THIS WHOLE ARENA, CERTAINLY, IS THE ISSUE OF TELEVISION NEWS IN CALIFORNIA. WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE IS THE SO-CALLED "FREE TV". IT'S SIMPLY UNAVAILABLE TO THESE CANDIDATES, SO THEY'RE FORCED --

VAL>> -- MEANING COVERAGE BY TV STATIONS?

CINNY KENNARD>> BY TELEVISION STATIONS, EXACTLY. SO WHAT'S HAPPENED IS, THEY'RE ACTUALLY FORCED INTO PUTTING OUT ALL THE MONEY THAT THEY NEED TO BUY TELEVISION IN ORDER TO GET EXPOSURE. THE CALIFORNIA VOTER DOESN'T EVEN -- OR BARELY GETS TO SEE A DEBATE ON TELEVISION BECAUSE THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT AIRED IN PRIME TIME ON TELEVISION. AND ANY ARGUMENT THAT COMES FROM A MANAGER THAT SAYS THE PUBLIC ISN'T INTERESTED IN POLITICAL COVERAGE IS SIMPLY NOT VALID. WE SAW LAST NOVEMBER, GORE VERSUS BUSH AND AN UNDECIDED ELECTION, THAT PEOPLE WERE TURNING INTO ELECTION INFORMATION IN RECORD NUMBERS. SO REFORM IS ALSO NEEDED IN THE TELEVISION NEWSROOMS --

JESS>> -- ARE WE CYNICAL ENOUGH TO SUGGEST THAT LOCAL NEWSCASTS DO NOT COVER POLITICS SO THAT THE CANDIDATE WILL HAVE TO SPEND MONEY ON TELEVISION?

ROY ULRICH>> IT'S A FACT. THE ALLIANCE FOR BETTER CAMPAIGNS WHICH IS BASED IN WASHINGTON HAS ACTUALLY SURVEYED AND, UNFORTUNATELY, THE MARKET WE'RE IN IN LOS ANGELES PERFORMS THE WORST. THAT IS, THE COMMERCIAL LOCALLY-OWNED STATIONS PERFORM THE WORST. THERE IS VERY LITTLE COVERAGE OF LOCAL AND STATE POLITICS BEFORE ELECTION DAY.

VAL>> BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, DON'T THE CANDIDATES ALSO LIKE TELEVISION COMMERCIALS? THEY CAN CONTROL EVERY SECOND. THEY CAN BUY STRATEGICALLY IN CERTAIN MARKETS?

CINNY KENNARD>> CERTAINLY. YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT. THEY CAN MANIPULATE THE VOTER MORE. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE VOTER ISN'T EVEN GETTING ACQUAINTED WITH WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE, THE PHILOSOPHY OF A PERSON, WHERE THEY STAND ON ISSUES. EVERYTHING IS JUST GOING BY SO FAST IN THESE THIRTY-SECOND SPOTS THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING MORE THAN A TEN-SECOND SOUND BITE FROM THE CANDIDATE.

YOU NEED SIMPLY, AS THE ALLIANCE HAS SUGGESTED, IN SOME CASES -- AND I'M NOT SPEAKING HERE ON BEHALF OF THE ALLIANCE -- BUT THERE'S BEEN SOME THAT SUGGEST THAT FIVE MINUTES OF FREE AIRTIME SHOULD BE ALLOTTED FOR THESE CANDIDATES AND IT SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT. THAT'S ONE THING THAT'S BEEN SUGGESTED. AGAIN, I'M NOT A PROPONENT, BUT IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED.

ROY ULRICH>> WELL, I AM A PROPONENT. THE ALLIANCE FOR BETTER CAMPAIGNS HAS PROPOSED THAT TELEVISION STATIONS FREELY GIVE UP TIME BEFORE THE ELECTION TO DO THIS. BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, THE SPOTS THAT THE POLITICIANS PURCHASE COST THE MOST AND THEY DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP THE TIME THAT THEY GET PAID FOR FOR FREE TIME.

JESS>> THE ALLIANCE HAS SOME NEWS BROADCASTERS INVOLVED TOO. WALTER CRONKITE IS PART OF IT.

ROY ULRICH>> EXACTLY.

JESS>> AND HE AGREES WITH THE NOTION THAT THEY OUGHT TO BE REQUIRED TO GIVE FIVE MINUTES.

ROY ULRICH>> RIGHT. WE JUST NEED A FRIENDLY FCC.

CINNY KENNARD>> AND JUST QUICKLY, THE USC ANNENBERG SCHOOL HERE WHERE I AM AN INSTRUCTOR HAS OFFERED NOW AN AWARD TO TELEVISION STATIONS WHO HAVE DONE GOOD SOLID POLITICAL COVERAGE, MORE QUALITY AND MORE QUANTITY, IN THE NAME OF WALTER CRONKITE. SO THERE ARE EFFORTS OUT THERE TO DO SOME TYPE OF REFORM IN THESE NEWSROOMS, BUT CERTAINLY MUCH MORE IS NEEDED.

VAL>> MUCH MORE IS NEEDED. CINNY KENNARD, AND ROY ULRICH FROM COMMON CAUSE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN. WE SHOULD ALSO MENTION THAT WE ARE CARRYING THE SECOND GUBERNATORIAL POLITICAL DEBATE THAT IS A WEEK FROM TODAY --

ROY ULRICH>> -- THANK GOD FOR PUBLIC TELEVISION. (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THERE WE GO -- IN ITS ENTIRETY FOR OUR VIEWERS TO WATCH.

TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, YOU WILL MEET A FORMER 60'S RADICAL. HIS PROTEST DAYS ARE BEHIND HIM, BUT HE FEARS THE PAST MAY COME BACK TO HAUNT HIM AND HIS EMPLOYER.

>> BUT THEN I LOOK AROUND AND I SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND THIS COUNTRY. IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME, BUT IT DOES WORRY ME. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, A KIND OF A RETURN TO MCCARTHYISM.
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JESS>> HUMORIST CALVIN TRILLIN IS PROBABLY BEST KNOWN FOR HIS COLUMNS IN THE NEW YORKER, BUT TRILLIN DEPARTS FROM HIS MUSINGS ABOUT TRAVEL AND ADVENTURES IN EATING IN HIS LATEST BOOK. HE TAKES ON SOMETHING ANGELENOS KNOW A LOT ABOUT: PARKING HASSLES.

VAL>> TRILLIN IS AS PROLIFIC AS HE IS VERSATILE. HE'S THE AUTHOR OF TWO BEST-SELLING MEMOIRS, A COLLECTION OF SHORT STORIES AND A CHRONICLE OF THE DESEGREGATION OF THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA. HE RECENTLY PUBLISHED HIS THIRD COMIC NOVEL. PATT MORRISON TALKED WITH CALVIN TRILLIN ABOUT "TEPPER ISN'T GOING OUT".

PATT>> CALVIN TRILLIN, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> NICE TO BE HERE.

PATT>> "TEPPER ISN'T GOING OUT" IS A KIND OF MODERN FABLE. THIS IS NEW YORK TOLD IN A FAIRY TALE, A FANTASY. YOU TELL US ABOUT THE BOOK AND HOW IT CAME TO BE.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> WELL, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A PARKING SPOT AND YOU SEE SOMEONE JUST SITTING BEHIND THE WHEEL OF HIS CAR IN A VERY IRRITATING WAY, NOT LEAVING.

PATT>> SMUGLY?

CALVIN TRILLIN>> SMUGLY. THAT'S WHO THE BOOKS IS ABOUT. HE'S THE PROTAGONIST OF THE BOOK.

PATT>> MURRAY TEPPER HAS A FAIRLY NONDESCRIPT JOB IN DIRECT MAIL, HE'S LIVED IN NEW YORK HIS ENTIRE LIFE AND HE TAKES GREAT PLEASURE IN FINDING THE BEST PLACES TO PARK, LEGALLY, PUTTING HIS MONEY IN THE METER AND SITTING THERE AND READING THE NEWSPAPER. YET WITH THIS SIMPLE MAN, YOU HAVE DRAWN IN VIRTUALLY EVERY ASPECT OF NEW YORK LIFE.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> WELL, FOR ONE THING, THERE'S A MAYOR IN NEW YORK WHO FINDS HIM VERY IRRITATING, A MAYOR WHO IS TERRIBLY WORRIED ABOUT THE FORCES OF DISORDER, AND THINKS ALMOST ANYTHING LIKE SCANTY CLOTHING OR JAYWALKING OR SOMETHING WILL THROW THE DOOR AJAR AND LET IN THE FORCES OF DISORDER. SO HE IS A VERY AUTHORITARIAN, RIGID, VINDICTIVE MAYOR NAMED FRANK DUCAVELLI.

PATT>> AND THIS IS A MAN WHO BEARS NO RESEMBLANCE TO A RECENT MAYOR OF NEW YORK WHO DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE CROSSING AGAINST THE LIGHT, WHO WANTED TO SHUT DOWN AN ART EXHIBITION, BY THE NAME OF GIULIANI.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> BY THE NAME OF GIULIANI. YEAH, I THOUGHT THE ART EXHIBITION THING SHOWED THAT PROBABLY WHAT IS OFFENSIVE OR NOT OFFENSIVE IN ART SHOULDN'T BE DECIDED BY PUBLIC OFFICIALS, PARTICULARLY A PUBLIC OFFICIAL WHO IS DEEPLY OFFENDED BY JAYWALKING, WHICH IS TRUE OF GIULIANI, THE PRE-CANONIZATION OF GIULIANI. I MUST SAY, IN THE POST-CANONIZATION OF GIULIANI, I DID SAY, AND WE ARE ALL VERY PROUD OF HIM, AND I SAID THAT IT SHOWS YOU THAT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN A PARANOID CONTROL FREAK IS PRECISELY WHAT THE OCCASION CALLS FOR AND I THINK SEPTEMBER 11 WAS ONE OF THOSE TIMES.

PATT>> IN THIS BOOK, YOU DISTILL ALL THE CHARACTERS IN THE BEHAVIOR PATTERNS THAT WE THINK OF AS NEW YORK. AND IN NEW YORK, MUCH LIKE RUSSIA, IF YOU PLAY BY THE RULES, YOU GET STEAMROLLED USUALLY. BUT HERE IS A MAN WHO STOOD UP TO HIS RIGHTS TO HAVE 25 CENTS IN THE METER AND HE WAS SITTING THERE IN HIS CAR AND HE WOULD NOT BE SWAYED BY AN OVERZEALOUS ATTORNEY. HE WOULD NOT BE SEDUCED BY A BOOK AGENT WHO WANTED TO MAKE HIM RICH. ALL OF THESE CHARACTERS USED THEIR WILES ON THIS MAN WHO WAS IMMUNE TO THEM.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> YEAH, AND HE WAS ALWAYS PLAYING BY THE RULES --

PATT>> -- MURRAY TEPPER PLAYS BY THE RULES.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> PLAYS BY THE RULES. HE'S NOT GOING OUT --

PATT>> -- HE'S NOT LEAVING HIS CAR, HE'S NOT DRIVING OFF.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> I THINK ALL CITIES IN AMERICA HAVE PARKING PROBLEMS AND I HEAR ALL KINDS OF HORROR STORIES AS I GO AROUND THE COUNTRY. BUT NEW YORK IS PARTICULARLY -- YOU KNOW THAT OLD FRANK SINATRA SONG ABOUT NEW YORK? IF YOU CAN PARK IT HERE, YOU'LL PARK IT ANYWHERE. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY TRUE.

PATT>> WELL, TO MY WAY OF THINKING, WHEN A NEW YORKER SAYS HE KNOWS HOW TO DRIVE, IT MEANS HE KNOWS HOW TO MAKE RIGHT-HAND TURNS AT FIVE MILES AN HOUR LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO PARK.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> I MEAN, IN FACT, PEOPLE WHO LEAVE THEIR CARS ON THE STREET IN NEW YORK AND DON'T HAVE A GARAGE AND HAVE TO SWITCH THEM BECAUSE OF STREET-CLEANING REGULATIONS TWICE A WEEK, ONCE THEY FIND A SPOT, THEY CAN'T LEAVE BECAUSE IT'S TOO GOOD TO LEAVE, SO THEY BASICALLY --

PATT>> -- SO HAVING A CAR IS USELESS. (LAUGHTER)

CALVIN TRILLIN>> WELL, IT'S NOT USELESS. THEY HAVE A CAR IN ORDER TO PARK IT. (LAUGHTER) I MEAN, THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE CAR. BUT IT'S TOUGH. THE STORY I ALWAYS TELL ABOUT HOW TOUGH PARKING IS IN NEW YORK IS WHEN ED KOCH WAS MAYOR AND HAD PERHAPS A SLIGHT STROKE AND PERHAPS NOT, BUT THEY PUT HIM IN THE HOSPITAL OVERNIGHT, AND HE WENT BACK TO GRACEY MANSION.

HE WAS VISITED BY MOTHER TERESA, WHO HE HAPPENED TO KNOW WAS IN TOWN TO ESTABLISH A HOSPICE, AND SHE PAID A SICK CALL ON HIM AND SAID SHE'D BEEN PRAYING FOR HIM AND EVERYTHING. HE SAID, MOTHER TERESA, WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING I CAN DO, JUST LET ME KNOW. SHE SAID, ACTUALLY, IF WE HAD A RESERVED PARKING SPOT IN FRONT OF THE HOSPICE, THAT WOULD BE A LOT EASIER.

PATT>> (LAUGHTER) THAT WOULD BE A MIRACLE.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE TO SAY IT'S A TOUGH TOWN.

PATT>> YOU DESCRIBE DRIVING PAST, IN YOUR OWN LIFE AND IN THE BOOK, DRIVING PAST PEOPLE LIKE MURRAY TEPPER. THEY'RE JUST SITTING IN THEIR CARS. THEY'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. AND HE DELIVERS THIS MESSAGE WITH A LITTLE DISMISSIVE WAVE OF THE HAND INDICATING THAT HE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE. CAN YOU DO THIS? IS THIS A SINGULAR NEW YORK THING?

CALVIN TRILLIN>> WELL, THERE ARE SEVERAL MOVES. ONE OF THEM IS THE QUICK NOD OF THE HEAD WITH THE EYES PARTLY SHUT. IT'S PRETTY MUCH THE WAY SOMEBODY WOULD SAY TO AN AUCTIONEER THAT HE'S NOT GOING UP THE NEXT BUMP, WHICH IS -- LIKE THAT.

PATT>> OKAY.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> THEN THERE'S THE LEFT-HAND FLICK BECAUSE YOU'RE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT AND THE GUY'S GOING -- THAT'S THE LEFT-HAND FLICK. THEN THERE'S THE FINGER WAG THAT SOMEBODY IN NAPLES MIGHT USE WHEN APPROACHED BY A SHOESHINE BOY IF HE DOESN'T WANT A SHOESHINE, WHICH IS -- LIKE THAT.

PATT>> VERY COSMOPOLITAN.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> YEAH, VERY COSMOPOLITAN MOVE. THE COSMOPOLITAN MOVE HE REALLY WANTS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE, HE CAN'T DO, WHICH IS THE TWO-FINGER NEW YORK TAXI WHISTLE.

PATT>> THE FINGERS IN THE MOUTH?

CALVIN TRILLIN>> YEAH. I THINK THAT'S GENETIC. SOME PEOPLE HAVE IT, SOME PEOPLE DON'T.

PATT>> (LAUGHTER) THE MAN IN THE BOOK, MURRAY TEPPER, BECOMES A SYMBOLIC FIGURE AND, IN SOME WAYS, THE BOOK MAY BECOME SYMBOLIC. IT'S VERY POPULAR. IT'S POPULAR OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK. WHAT DO YOU THINK ACCOUNTS FOR IT?

CALVIN TRILLIN>> IN THE FIRST PLACE, EVERY CITY HAS ITS PARKING PROBLEMS AND I DIDN'T COME HERE TO BOAST, BUT I HAVE TO SAY IT'S THE FIRST PARKING NOVEL AS FAR AS WE KNOW. SOME COMPARATIVE LITERATURE PROFESSOR SOMEWHERE MAY KNOW THAT IN THE SERBO-CROATIAN THERE'S A LONG TRADITION OF EACH NOVELIST TAKING HIS CRACK AT "THE" PARKING NOVEL --

PATT>> -- ONLY WITH OXCARTS, I THINK.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> YES, BUT AS FAR AS WE KNOW, IT'S THE FIRST PARKING NOVEL, AND THEY ALL HAVE THEIR OWN CUSTOMS. I WAS TOLD IN BOSTON THAT, IN A SNOWSTORM, IF YOU SHOVEL OUT THE SPOT --

PATT>> -- IT'S YOURS?

CALVIN TRILLIN>> IT'S YOURS AND YOU PUT A CHAIR IN TO SHOW THAT IT'S YOUR SPOT. I SAID, IN NEW YORK, THE CHAIR WOULD BE FIREWOOD WITHIN TEN MINUTES.

PATT>> AND I THOUGHT THEY WERE STAKING OUT A GOOD PLACE FOR THE ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE EARLY.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> NO, IT'S JUST -- THAT'S MY SPOT.

PATT>> CALVIN TRILLIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

CALVIN TRILLIN>> THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN A REAL PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

VAL>> AND, ONCE AGAIN, THE TITLE OF CALVIN TRILLIN'S LATEST BOOK, "TEPPER ISN'T GOING OUT".

JESS>> AMERICA'S LONGEST LIVING FORMER PRESIDENT CELEBRATES A MILESTONE TODAY. THIS IS RONALD REAGAN'S 91ST BIRTHDAY. HE IS ONE OF ONLY THREE PRESIDENTS TO LIVE PAST THEIR 90TH BIRTHDAYS. THE OTHER TWO ARE JOHN ADAMS AND HERBERT HOOVER.

VAL>> PRESIDENT REAGAN HAS RARELY BEEN SEEN IN PUBLIC SINCE HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE AND NOW HE'S NOT SEEN AT ALL. THESE ARE SOME OF THE LAST PUBLIC PICTURES OF HIM HEADING TO HIS OFFICE IN CENTURY CITY IN THE LATE 90'S. JESS AND I RECENTLY SPOKE ABOUT REAGAN'S LEGACY WITH A JOURNALIST WHO KNEW HIM WELL, BIOGRAPHER LOU CANNON.

JESS>> BROADEST QUESTION IN THE WORLD: WHAT WILL RONALD REAGAN'S LEGACY ULTIMATELY BE?

LOU CANNON>> I GUESS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF HIS LEGACY IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE THAT HE AND GORBACHEV TOGETHER BROUGHT AN END TO THE COLD WAR. REAGAN REALLY CAME INTO OFFICE -- HE SAID BEFORE HE WAS IN OFFICE, HE SAID WHEN HE VISITED THE WASHINGTON POST AND WE ASKED HIM THE QUESTION ABOUT ISN'T THERE GOING TO BE THIS INTENSE ARMS RACE BECAUSE OF YOUR BUILD-UP? RONALD REAGAN SAID, "THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE THE SOVIET UNION WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH US AND THEY'LL COME TO THE BARGAINING TABLE." NOW WE ALL KNOW NOW THAT WAS TRUE, BUT IN 1980, I DON'T KNOW HOW REAGAN KNEW IT, BUT HE DID.

VAL>> AND YOU DON'T THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY, WELL, THE COLD WAR WOULD HAVE ENDED ANYWAY, THE WALL WAS DESTINED TO COME DOWN? ARE YOU SAYING THAT PRESIDENT REAGAN, IN FACT, UNIQUELY DID SOMETHING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN FASTER?

LOU CANNON>> THE COLD WAR COULD HAVE ENDED MUCH DIFFERENTLY THAN IT DID, VAL. WE'VE HAD ALL THESE NEAR-MISSES WITH BOTH US AND THE SOVIETS THAT COULD HAVE ENDED IN A NUCLEAR EXCHANGE. NOT THAT ANYBODY WOULD HAVE DONE IT DELIBERATELY, BUT BECAUSE OF MISCALCULATION.

JESS>> RONALD REAGAN WAS MUCH UNDERESTIMATED WHEN HE FIRST MOVED INTO THE OVAL OFFICE, MUCH AS THE CURRENT PRESIDENT. ARE THERE OTHER PARALLELS BETWEEN THE TWO?

LOU CANNON>> WELL, REAGAN, OF COURSE, CONTRIBUTED TO THAT, YOU KNOW. REMEMBER, YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN AROUND, JESS, WHEN WE ASKED HIM WHAT KIND OF A GOVERNOR WOULD HE BE AND HE SAID, "I DON'T KNOW. I'VE NEVER PLAYED A GOVERNOR." (LAUGHTER)

BUT THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT REAGAN, BY THE TIME HE BECAME PRESIDENT, HAD BEEN GOVERNOR OF OUR STATE WHICH HAS GOT A BUDGET BIGGER THAN ALL BUT SIX OR SEVEN COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. HE'D BEEN AROUND THE TRACK AND SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN UNDERESTIMATED. BUSH CAME FROM A STATE WHERE THE GOVERNOR, BY NO FAULT OF HIS OWN, IS NOT AN IMPORTANT OFFICE HOLDER. IT'S THE ONLY STATE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAS MORE POWER THAN THE GOVERNOR.

VAL>> REAGAN HAD TO DEAL WITH TERRORISM ON A MUCH LESS HIGH PROFILE WAY.

LOU CANNON>> THE TERRORISM WAS DIFFICULT FOR REAGAN TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE REAGAN KNEW THAT THE SOVIETS WERE THIS NUCLEAR ARM MENACE AND HE HAD A PLAN FOR DEALING WITH THEM. BUT HE DIDN'T HAVE A PLAN FOR DEALING WITH A PERSON WHO WAS WILLING TO DRIVE A STAKE-BED TRUCK INTO A MARINE BARRACKS KILLING SELF AND 240 MARINES.

IN A WAY, I WOULD SAY THE TEST THAT WE'RE NOW GOING THROUGH -- THERE'S A CHAPTER IN MY NEW BOOK ABOUT REAGAN I CALL THE TEST OF TERRORISM -- REALLY BEGAN IN 1983 IN LEBANON. THAT ACT AND THE ACT OF BLOWING UP A STATE DEPARTMENT BUILDING IN LEBANON WERE SORT OF THE PRECURSORS TO THE TERRORISTS FLYING THOSE PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. THE RESPONSE IS SIMILAR TOO IN THAT REAGAN HAD A PROBLEM DEALING WITH IT BECAUSE HIS ADVISOR TOLD HIM THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN GO OUT AND BOMB BEIRUT. YOU'RE GOING TO KILL A LOT OF CIVILIANS. THEY SETTLED FOR A RAID, YOU MAY REMEMBER, ON THE SYRIAN BARRACKS, HEZBALA IN THE VALLEY. I THINK IT KNOCKED OUT A RADAR EMPLACEMENT AND WE LOST TWO PLANES.

THE THING ABOUT REAGAN IS THAT, WITH EVERY TEST -- I MEAN, WE HAD SERVICEMEN KILLED IN EL SALVADOR, WE HAD THE WEST BERLIN DISCO BLOWN UP, WE HAD THE ACHILLE LAURO, WE HAD THE TWA HIJACKING -- WITH ALL THESE TESTS. WHEN REAGAN WAS ASKED TO RETALIATE, HE WOULD ASK THE QUESTION OF HOW MANY CIVILIAN, YOU KNOW, LIVES WOULD BE LOST. HE DIDN'T RETALIATE UNTIL LIBYA BECAUSE EACH TIME HE WAS TOLD THAT THERE WEREN'T -- YOU KNOW, THESE TERRORISTS WEREN'T OUT THERE IN A CAMP MARKED "TERRORIST, HIT ME". THEY WERE AMONG THE PEOPLE OF LEBANON OR WHATEVER COUNTRY THEY WERE IN.

VAL>> SO WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT THIS BOOK?

LOU CANNON>> WE USED A LOT OF ILLUSTRATIONS IN THERE, A LOT OF PICTURES THAT HAVE -- SOME OF WHICH HAVEN'T APPEARED BEFORE -- AND DOCUMENTS. YOU SEE REAGAN'S EDITS IN HIS OWN HAND ON THE STAR WARS SPEECH. REAGAN WAS ONCE DISMISSED, YOU KNOW, AS AN AMIABLE DUNCE. I THINK THAT, WHETHER YOU LIKE REAGAN OR DISLIKE HIM OR WHATEVER YOUR VIEW OF REAGAN, WHATEVER YOUR POLITICS, WHEN YOU SEE THESE DOCUMENTS, YOU REALIZE THAT THIS WAS A PRETTY SMART PRESIDENT.

THIS IS THE TELEVISION ADDRESS THAT HE GIVES ON SEPTEMBER 5, 1983 AFTER THE KOREAN AIRLINER, WHICH WAS AN ACT OF TERRORISM, WAS SHOT DOWN AND KILLED ALL THOSE PEOPLE. THE SOVIET FIGHTER SHOT IT DOWN. IT HAD A LOT OF AMERICANS ON BOARD. HERE'S A SENTENCE, FOR INSTANCE. IT SAYS, "THAT PLANE ESCAPED DESTRUCTION -- HE'S REFERRING TO AN EARLIER ATTACK -- BY MAKING A CRASH LANDING ON A FROZEN LAKE, BUT SEVERAL INNOCENT CIVILIANS LOST THEIR LIVES." REAGAN ADDS, "KILLED BY MACHINE GUN BULLETS. THIS IS A PRACTICE OF OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD? THE ANSWER IS NO." AND THEN HE GOES ON TO -- HE WRITES THAT STUFF IN. THIS IS AN EDITOR. I MEAN, HE'S AN EDITOR OF HIS SPEECHES. AS YOU KNOW, JESS, HE WROTE ALL OF HIS OWN SPEECHES FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME. I THINK THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE INTERESTING ARE SOME OF THE PICTURES WHICH YOU'VE SEEN BEFORE, BUT WE HAVE EARLY PICTURES OF REAGAN --

VAL>> -- WHAT'S MEMORABLE IN YOUR MIND?

LOU CANNON>> THERE'S A PICTURE OF HIM, A SWIMMING PICTURE. IT'S PROBABLY TAKEN FROM LATE HIGH SCHOOL. I REMEMBER WHEN I DID MY FIRST BOOK, I THOUGHT THAT THE 77 PEOPLE HE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE RESCUED WAS SORT OF A PRESS AGENT'S DREAM OR A LEGEND, BUT IT'S DOCUMENTED. IT'S DOCUMENTED IN THE LOCAL PAPER. MOST OF THOSE RESCUES ARE DOCUMENTED.

VAL>> WELL, THAT'S WONDERFUL. AGAIN, CONGRATULATIONS, AND IT'S JUST WONDERFUL WHAT YOU'RE CONTRIBUTING TO THE REAGAN LEGACY.

LOU CANNON>> WELL, THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.

VAL>> THE REAGAN FAMILY HAD A DOUBLE CELEBRATION TODAY, A FAMILY SPOKESMAN SAID. THEY ALSO TOASTED RONALD AND NANCY REAGAN'S 50TH WEDDING ANNIVERSARY WHICH FALLS ON MARCH 4.

JESS>> BOTH ARE OCCASIONS TO CELEBRATE. THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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