2/13/02

LC020213

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

WE TAKE YOU LIVE TO LONG BEACH STATE UNIVERSITY WHERE THE THREE MEN BATTLING FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR FACE OFF IN A ONE-HOUR DEBATE. IT IS THE SECOND TELEVISED MATCH-UP BETWEEN CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE, BILL JONES; LOS ANGELES BUSINESSMAN, BILL SIMON; AND FORMER LOS ANGELES MAYOR, RICHARD RIORDAN. THE REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL DEBATE, NEXT ON A SPECIAL LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.


VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA. JESS MARLOW HAS THE NIGHT OFF.

WE'RE ABOUT TO BRING YOU THE SECOND TELEVISED DEBATE BETWEEN THE THREE MAJOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR. THE MARCH PRIMARY IS JUST THREE WEEKS AWAY AND TONIGHT'S DEBATE COULD BE CRUCIAL. WE'RE TOLD THE CANDIDATES ARE IN PLACE, SO LET'S GO LIVE TO THE REPUBLICAN DEBATE.

ANNOUNCER>> THE CALIFORNIA BROADCASTERS ASSOCIATION AND CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY PRESENTS DEBATE 2002 ON THE CAMPUS OF CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY LONG BEACH, A LIVE DEBATE FROM DANIEL RECITAL HALL FEATURING REPUBLICAN PARTY PRIMARY ELECTION CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA.

THE CANDIDATES ARE CALIFORNIA'S SECRETARY OF STATE, BILL JONES; FORMER LOS ANGELES MAYOR, RICHARD RIORDAN; AND BUSINESSMAN BILL SIMON.

THE MODERATOR FOR TONIGHT'S DEBATE IS STAN STATHAM, PRESIDENT OF CALIFORNIA BROADCASTERS ASSOCIATION. QUESTIONING THE CANDIDATES ARE PATT MORRISON, THE LOS ANGELES TIMES; DAVE BRYAN, KCAL TV, LOS ANGELES; AND ALEX SULLIVAN, KNX AM, LOS ANGELES. THE GROUND RULES FOR THE DEBATE INCLUDE OPENING STATEMENTS BY THE CANDIDATES, REPORTERS' QUESTIONS TO THE CANDIDATES AND THE CANDIDATES' CLOSING STATEMENTS. CO-SPONSORS OF THE DEBATE ARE THE CALIFORNIA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THE CALIFORNIA BUSINESS ROUNDTABLE AND THE CALIFORNIA CORRECTIONAL PEACE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION. HERE IS TONIGHT'S MODERATOR, STAN STATHAM.

STAN STATHAM>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. WITH JUST A VERY SHORT NINETEEN DAYS TO GO BEFORE THE MARCH 5 PRIMARY, THIS IS THE FINAL REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL DEBATE AND WE BEGIN IMMEDIATELY WITH OPENING STATEMENTS. THE FIRST STATEMENT IS FROM ATTORNEY BUSINESSMAN, BILL SIMON. MR. SIMON?

BILL SIMON>> THANK YOU, STAN, AND THANK YOU, SPONSORS. TONIGHT'S DEBATE WILL BE THE LAST OPPORTUNITY THAT ALL THREE OF US WILL BE ON THE SAME STAGE BEFORE PRIMARY DAY ON MARCH 5. MY OPPONENTS ARE BOTH GOOD MEN AND THEY DESIRE, AS I DO, TO SERVE OUR CITIZENS. BUT WE HAVE VERY DIFFERENT VISIONS REGARDING HOW TO SOLVE THE CHALLENGES THAT FACE CALIFORNIA. EACH IS A PROFESSIONAL POLITICIAN THAT OFTEN LOOKS FIRST TO THE GOVERNMENT FOR SOLUTIONS. I LOOK TO CALIFORNIANS TO USE THEIR INGENUITY TO MOVE CALIFORNIA FORWARD. MY VISION IS OF A RENEWED CALIFORNIA DREAM WITH RAISED SIGHTS AND HIGHER EXPECTATIONS, WHERE GRAY DAVIS'S MASS MEDIOCRITY IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE.

WE NEED TO GET OUR ECONOMY MOVING FORWARD AGAIN. I DO NOT ACCEPT A CALIFORNIA WHERE JOBS FLEE OUTSIDE THE STATE, WHERE POWER IS UNRELIABLE AND WHERE BUDGET DEFICITS STRETCH FORTH AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE. GOVERNMENT MUST LIVE WITHIN ITS MEANS AND LET OUR PEOPLE KEEP MORE OF THEIR HARD-EARNED WAGES. OUR JOB CREATORS SHOULD BE LIMITED ONLY BY THEIR IMAGINATIONS AND THEIR HARD WORK, NOT BY RED TAPE AND MORE REGULATIONS. WE NEED TO FIX OUR SCHOOLS. HOW CAN WE TOLERATE A CALIFORNIA WHERE TWO MILLION STUDENTS ARE TRAPPED IN FAILING SCHOOLS? CALIFORNIA SCHOOLS MUST PROVIDE AN EDUCATION THAT WILL ALLOW EVERY CHILD TO SUCCEED. PARENTS AND TEACHERS MUST BE FREE FROM A DISTANT EDUCATIONAL BUREAUCRACY AND EDUCATORS MUST BE EMPOWERED AND ACCOUNTABLE TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE OUR KIDS CAN LEARN.

AND WE MUST IMPROVE OUR QUALITY OF LIFE. CALIFORNIA HAS GONE FROM BEST TO WORST IN OUR ROADS, IN OUR WATER, IN OUR ELECTRICITY. THAT'S NOT MY CALIFORNIA AND I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT YOURS EITHER. WE NEED LEADERS WHO ACTUALLY PLAN FOR THE FUTURE INSTEAD OF LEADERS THAT JUST CAREEN FROM CRISIS TO CRISIS. WE NEED LEADERS WHO CAN WORK WITH BUSINESS TO HELP REBUILD OUR STATE. I HAVE THE BROAD EXPERIENCE AS A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN, LEADER IN CHARITY, AND FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, AND TONIGHT I LOOK FORWARD TO SHARING THAT VISION AS WELL AS MY HOPES AND DREAMS WITH ALL OF YOU FOR A BETTER CALIFORNIA. THANK YOU.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. SIMON. OUR SECOND OPENING STATEMENT IS FROM CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE, BILL JONES. MR. SECRETARY?

BILL JONES>> I STAND HERE TONIGHT AS A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN ASKING FOR YOUR SUPPORT. THE CHOICES HAVE NEVER BEEN CLEARER NOR THE STAKES HIGHER. I'M ASTONISHED THAT I'M HERE TONIGHT STANDING ON THE PLATFORM WITH TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE GIVEN SUBSTANTIAL FUNDS TO DEMOCRATS. BILL SIMON IS A NICE YOUNG FELLOW FROM NEW YORK WHO'S BEEN HERE TEN YEARS, BUT HE HAS NEVER WORKED IN CALIFORNIA GOVERNMENT, WITH NO EXPERIENCE. HE HAS NOT VOTED IN THE LAST TEN YEARS IN PRIMARY ELECTIONS AND HE'S GIVEN SUBSTANTIAL SUMS OVER THE YEARS TO DEMOCRATS, HERE AND IN NEW YORK.

MR. RIORDAN? THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, I APPRECIATE HIS EXPERIENCE IN LOS ANGELES, BUT THE TRUTH IS, HE'S JUST ANOTHER BIG-CITY LIBERAL MAYOR. THE FACT IS, I'M NOT SURE WHAT PRIMARY HE SHOULD BE RUNNING IN, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT. THE TRUTH IS, HE'S GIVEN THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO DEMOCRATS, GRAY DAVIS INCLUDED. AMONG THE LIST OVER THE YEARS, SUPPORTING PEOPLE LIKE DIANNE FEINSTEIN, BARBARA BOXER, MAXINE WATERS, WILLY BROWN, JOHN BURTON AND OTHERS. AND IT'S CLEAR TO SEE WHY THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE MADE HIM AN HONORARY DEMOCRAT BECAUSE, AS YOU RECALL, HIS STATEMENT THAT BILL CLINTON IS THE GREATEST LEADER IN THE FREE WORLD. AND WHEN IT COMES TO POLICY, DICK, YOUR ISSUES -- YOUR STATEMENT I HEAR IS, "WELL, WAIT 'TIL I'M SWORN IN AND I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO DO."

WELL, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THAT'S JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, BECAUSE OF YOUR SUPPORT FOR DEMOCRATS AND BECAUSE OF THE INCONSISTENCY OF YOUR POSITIONS ON PROP 13, ON THE DEATH PENALTY AND OTHER ISSUES, WE JUST CAN'T TRUST YOU, AND THE PROBLEM WITH TRUST IS CONCERN TO THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA. MY RECORD IS CLEAR. I HAVE PUT FORWARD PROPOSALS ON EDUCATION, THE BUDGET, AGRICULTURE, ENERGY AND OTHER CONCERNS. I LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING ABOUT THOSE TONIGHT. I'VE ALSO BEEN ABLE TO BRING TWELVE MILLION VOTERS OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS TO SUPPORT ME IN MANY OF MY RACES. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED. SOMEONE WITH A PROVEN RECORD, SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN ELECTIONS AND I WILL BEAT GRAY DAVIS IN NOVEMBER.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. SECRETARY. OUR THIRD OPENING STATEMENT IS FROM THE FORMER MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES, RICHARD RIORDAN. MR. RIORDAN?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> BILL, PEOPLE HAVE HEARD THAT SAME RHETORIC FOR THE LAST MONTH. ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS. JUST LOOK AT WHAT I DID FOR THE CITY OF L.A. BUT TONIGHT, REPUBLICANS WANT TO HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THEY WANT TO HEAR HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET RID OF GRAY DAVIS. THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO WANT TO KNOW HOW WE'RE GOING TO LEAD THE STATE WHEN WE BECOME GOVERNOR. GRAY DAVIS IS SOMEBODY I WAS THINKING ABOUT JUST LAST NIGHT WHEN I WATCHED THE OLYMPICS AND I THOUGHT GRAY DAVIS OUGHT TO BE IN SALT LAKE CITY BECAUSE HE'S GOING DOWNHILL MUCH FASTER THAN ANY OF THE OTHER SKIERS (LAUGHTER). GRAY, YOU'RE A DISGRACE. YOU GET AT YOUR OFFICE ABOUT 11:00 EVERY DAY, YOU DIAL FOR DOLLARS ALL DAY LONG, YOU'VE RAISED OVER A MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH SINCE YOU BECAME GOVERNOR. YOU EVEN HAD TO HIDE IN THE BUSHES TO KEEP AWAY FROM REPORTERS WHO WANTED TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR CAMPAIGN FINANCING.

GRAY DAVIS, I THINK PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU DO FOR SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS WHEN THEY GIVE YOU MONEY. YOU KNOW YOU'RE KNOWN AS THE ENRON GOVERNOR BECAUSE YOU RECEIVED $119,000 FROM ENRON, MORE THAN ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE UNITED STATES. WHAT DID ENRON GET? THEY GOT DRILLING RIGHTS IN SOLANO CITY. A COINCIDENCE? THEY GOT THE RIGHT TO ONE ENERGY PLANT. COINCIDENCE? THEY GOT A RIGHT TO ANOTHER ENERGY PLANT AFTER GIVING YOU MONEY. GOVERNOR DAVIS, YOU RECEIVED OVER $7.5 MILLION DOLLARS DURING THE TIME YOU WERE SIGNING LEGISLATION, MUCH OF WHICH INVOLVED SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS. LET'S PUT CALIFORNIA FIRST. LET'S PLEDGE THAT WE WILL NOT SIGN ANY LEGISLATION AT ANY TIME THAT WE'RE RAISING CAMPAIGN FUNDS. LET'S MAKE CALIFORNIA A GREAT STATE, A STATE THAT WE'RE PROUD TO BE PART OF.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN. WE'RE AT THAT POINT IN THE DEBATE THIS EVENING THAT WE HAVE QUESTIONS FROM THE PANELISTS AND, OF COURSE, ANSWERS FROM YOU. THE FIRST QUESTION COMES FROM DAVE BRYAN FROM KCAL TELEVISION IN LOS ANGELES AND IT GOES TO THE SECRETARY, BILL JONES.

DAVE BRYAN>> MR. SECRETARY, GOOD EVENING. YOU RAISED THE ISSUE OF FORMER MAYOR RIORDAN'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO DEMOCRATS. THIS WEEK YOU EXPANDED THAT TO INCLUDE HIS WIFE AND A CONTRIBUTION YOU SAY SHE MADE TO A DEMOCRAT IN MARYLAND WHO'S A POTENTIAL GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE. MY QUESTION IS THIS. DOES THE SPOUSE OF A CANDIDATE HAVE THE RIGHT TO STEER A SOMEWHAT INDEPENDENT COURSE SINCE THEY ARE NOT THE PERSON RUNNING FOR OFFICE? IN OTHER WORDS, IS THAT A LEGITIMATE ISSUE IN THIS CAMPAIGN?

BILL JONES>> WELL, THE LETTER THAT CAME FROM THE MARYLAND REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THE INDIVIDUAL GROUP THAT RAISED THE ISSUE TO THE CHAIRMAN OF OUR PARTY IN CALIFORNIA, BUT THE LETTER STATED MR. RIORDAN IN THE LETTER TOO. AND WITH DICK'S BACKGROUND IN GIVING TO MAXINE WATERS, BARBARA BOXER, DIANNE FEINSTEIN, ALL THESE DEMOCRATS, THE QUESTION IS A LEGITIMATE QUESTION. I'M THE HIGHEST-RANKING REPUBLICAN IN CALIFORNIA AND I TAKE OFFENSE TO THOSE GIVING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO KENNEDY IN MARYLAND TO WIN AN ELECTION AS THE HIGHEST-RANKING REPUBLICAN IN CALIFORNIA. AND IT IS A FAIR ISSUE, ESPECIALLY GIVEN DICK'S BACKGROUND IN GIVING TO ALL THESE DEMOCRATS.

AND THE QUESTION REALLY IS, IS IT JUST A CONTRIBUTION OR IS IT A PHILOSOPHICAL SUPPORT OF THE POSITIONS THE KENNEDYS HOLD AND OTHER DEMOCRATS HOLD? AND SINCE DICK WILL NOT BE FORTHCOMING WITH RESPECT TO HIS POSITIONS ON THE ISSUES, THEN WE HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION HE MUST BE SUPPORTING OR HIS WIFE MUST BE SUPPORTING THESE INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE THEY STRONGLY AGREE WITH THEM PHILOSOPHICALLY. THAT IS THE LEGITIMATE POINT FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO ASK. AGAIN, I WANT TO STRESS THAT THE LETTER WAS DIRECTED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN CALIFORNIA SAYING PLEASE STOP DICK RIORDAN AND OTHERS FROM GIVING AGAINST OUR CANDIDATE IN MARYLAND. IT'S A FAIR QUESTION AND IT DESERVED AN ANSWER AND THE REASON I RAISED IT IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE MARYLAND REPUBLICAN PARTY RAISED IT TO THE CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND I FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO RESPOND.

STAN STATHAM>> MR. SIMON, COULD WE HAVE YOUR COMMENTS AND/OR REBUTTAL ON THIS?

BILL SIMON>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. FROM MY STANDPOINT, I WOULD LOOK PURELY AND SIMPLY AT THE INVOLVEMENT THAT DICK HAD WITH HIS WIFE IN TERMS OF THE DONATION BECAUSE I'M HAPPILY MARRIED MYSELF. MY WIFE IS MY BEST FRIEND AND MY PARTNER AND HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, SINCE THE DAY I MET HER AND WE DON'T ALWAYS AGREE ON THINGS. AND I'M NOT SURE IF DICK AGREED WITH THAT CONTRIBUTION OR NOT. I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM HIM ON THAT SUBJECT. BUT I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S CERTAINLY FAIR GAME TO TALK ABOUT CONTRIBUTIONS TO DEMOCRATS AND TO OTHER PARTIES AND EXACTLY WHERE YOU STAND WITH RESPECT TO SPONSORING CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS. BUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD BE, IF YOU WILL, ASSIGNED FOR YOUR WIFE'S ACTIONS, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK FURTHER THAN JUST THAT. SO I THINK YOU HAVE TO UNDERGO, I WOULD SAY, SOME DUE DILIGENCE ON THE SUBJECT BEFORE YOU COULD MAKE A SPECIFIC CONCLUSION.

STAN STATHAM>> AND THE THIRD REBUTTAL FROM YOU, MR. MAYOR?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> MR. JONES, WHAT YOU SAID THE OTHER DAY WAS PATHETIC AND YOUR EXPLANATION TODAY WAS EVEN MORE PATHETIC. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL WOMAN, NANCY DALEY RIORDAN. TWO WEEKS AGO, SHE WAS INVITED BACK TO THE WHITE HOUSE BY PRESIDENT BUSH AND STOOD ALONG WITH PRESIDENT BUSH AND SECRETARY, TOMMY THOMPSON, FOR A SIGNING OF A SIGNIFICANT BILL SHE HELPED GET THROUGH LEGISLATION ON IN CONGRESS FOR CHILDREN. AFTERWARDS, SHE HAD PRIVATE TIME TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN'S ISSUES WITH FIRST LADY, LAURA BUSH. THROUGH THE YEARS, SHE'S BEEN VERY CLOSE WITH TOM [DELEIGH], WITH ORRIN HATCH, WITH BOB DOLE, IN WORKING ON CHILDREN'S ISSUES IN THE CAPITOL. IN FACT, BOB DOLE RECOMMENDED MY WIFE TO BE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES. SHE'S SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT ONLY A LOVELY PERSON, SHE'S AN INCREDIBLE ASSET AND I WILL BE PROUD TO HAVE HER AS THE FIRST LADY OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

STAN STATHAM>> OUR SECOND QUESTION NOW FROM THE SECOND PANELIST, PATT MORRISON FROM THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, AND IT GOES TO BUSINESSMAN ATTORNEY, BILL SIMON. PATT?

PATT MORRISON>> THANK YOU, STAN, AND THANK YOU, CANDIDATES, FOR BEING HERE THIS EVENING. MR. SIMON, YOU'VE WELCOMED THE ENDORSEMENT OF YOUR FORMER BOSS, RUDY GIULIANI, IN THE RACE. MR. GIULIANI IS A PRO CHOICE, PRO GUN CONTROL, PRO GAY RIGHTS REPUBLICAN. THOSE ARE THE SAME POSITIONS YOU'VE CRITICIZED MAYOR RIORDAN FOR EMBRACING. WHY SHOULD VOTERS NOT FIND YOU DISINGENUOUS IN THIS?

BILL SIMON>> OH, PATT, THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHY I CAN REACH OUT AND BE INCLUSIVE AND WHY I'VE SAID IN THE PAST THAT, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATIVES DON'T HAVE A MONOPOLY ON REACHING OUT AND BEING INCLUSIVE. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SUPPORTS ME DOESN'T MEAN THAT I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT THEY STAND FOR. BUT I'M GRATEFUL TO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF RUDY GIULIANI BECAUSE HE HAS SAID BILL SIMON IS THE KIND OF LEADER THAT CAN LEAD CALIFORNIA. HE'S SEEN ME FOR NOW SEVENTEEN YEARS AND I THINK, DURING THAT SEVENTEEN-YEAR TIME FRAME, RUDY HAS SEEN ME IN A VARIETY OF CIRCUMSTANCES, WHETHER IT BE WORKING ON VERY IMPORTANT PROSECUTIONS, WHETHER IT BE IN A VARIETY OF OTHER ACTIVITIES AT THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OR IN BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE KEPT IN CLOSE TOUCH WITH ONE ANOTHER. HE IS SOMEBODY THAT CAN EXPRESS A VERY COHERENT OPINION ON THE LEADERSHIP ABILITIES OF A BILL SIMON, SO I THINK HIS ENDORSEMENT IS PARTICULARLY USEFUL BECAUSE HE KNOWS ME SO WELL.

STAN STATHAM>> OUR FIRST RESPONSE ON PATT'S QUESTION IS FROM MR. RIORDAN.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> BILL, IF YOU WANT TO BE SO INCLUSIVE, WHY DON'T YOU ENDORSE ME FOR GOVERNOR? (LAUGHTER)

BILL SIMON>> MAYBE AFTER I FINISH MY TERM. (LAUGHTER)

RICHARD RIORDAN>> (LAUGHTER) BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WE HAVE TO GET RID OF GRAY DAVIS. HE HAS BEEN A PATHETIC, DISGRACEFUL GOVERNOR. HE'S TAKEN US FROM THE LARGEST SURPLUS IN THE HISTORY OF OUR STATE, OVER $12 BILLION DOLLARS, TO WHAT COULD BE THE LARGEST DEFICIT, FROM $12 BILLION TO $20 BILLION DOLLARS. WHAT HE HAS DONE ON ENERGY BY OVERREACTING IS COSTING PEOPLE TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, SO WE NEED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO GET TOGETHER, TO PUT ASIDE DIFFERENCES. WE CAN RESPECT EACH OTHER IF WE DIFFER ON PRO CHOICE, PRO LIFE BECAUSE WHAT WE WANT IS A STRONG EDUCATION, STRONG HEALTHCARE SYSTEM. WE WANT TO BE FRIENDLY TO BUSINESS, CREATE QUALITY JOBS AND HAVE TOUGH FISCAL MANAGEMENT. SO LET'S GET TOGETHER. LET'S INCLUDE EVERYBODY, WOMEN, MINORITIES, INTO A NEW REPUBLICAN PARTY WHERE WE SHARE POWER AND RESPECT WITH EVERYONE.

STAN STATHAM>> SECRETARY JONES, YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS?

BILL JONES>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE PARTY AS IT STANDS DOES HAVE ITS ARMS OPEN TO EVERYONE. I RECEIVED THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE MEXICAN-AMERICAN POLITICAL ASSOCIATION. WE HAVE BEEN REACHING OUT. I HAVE WORKED WITH THE PARTY FOR MANY YEARS AND, OF COURSE, I RESPECT MAYOR GIULIANI ALSO. I THINK THE ONLY PERSON THAT HASN'T COME IN AND ENDORSED IS HILLARY CLINTON, DICK, AND MAYBE SHE'S STILL AVAILABLE. MAYBE YOU OUGHT TO TALK TO HER. WITH ALL THE CONTRIBUTIONS YOU'VE GIVEN TO DEMOCRATS, SHE MIGHT BE INTERESTED.

BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, THE PARTY NEEDS TO GROW AND EXPAND. MR. GIULIANI IS WELCOME, BUT IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT THAT STRONG REPUBLICANS LIKE GEORGE DEUKMEJIAN WHO HAS ENDORSED OUR CAMPAIGN, HAS BEEN ABLE TO BRING INDEPENDENTS AND DEMOCRATS TO OUR PARTY FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. WE NEED NOT, AS DICK POINTS OUT, THROW OUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE LOST A FEW ELECTIONS IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, WE NEED TO HAVE CANDIDATES THAT CAN WIN ELECTIONS. I HAVE WON ELECTIONS, WITH OVER TWELVE MILLION VOTES IN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. NEITHER OF THE CANDIDATES ON THE PLATFORM WITH ME TONIGHT HAVE EVER WON AN ELECTION FOR ANYTHING, RUNNING AS A REPUBLICAN STATEWIDE, PERIOD. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WILL DO FINE. WE NEED TO HAVE A CANDIDATE THAT CAN WIN ELECTIONS. I'VE WON ELECTIONS AND I WILL WIN AGAIN IN NOVEMBER.

STAN STATHAM>> TIME FOR OUR THIRD QUESTION FROM OUR THIRD PANELIST, ALEX SULLIVAN, WHO'S WITH KNX NEWS RADIO IN LOS ANGELES, AND ALEX'S QUESTION GOES TO MAYOR RIORDAN.

ALEX SULLIVAN>> THANK YOU, STAN. YOU MENTIONED ENRON A WHILE AGO, MAYOR RIORDAN, AND EARLIER THIS MONTH THE L.A. TIMES HAD A STORY "DAVIS CONFERRED WITH ENRON CEO DURING STATE ENERGY CRISIS". IT EMPHASIZES THE GOVERNOR SAYS HE MET WITH KEN LAY OVER SEVERAL MONTHS AT THE REQUEST OF THE CLINTON AND BUSH ADMINISTRATIONS, BUT ULTIMATELY TOOK NONE OF HIS ADVICE, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT KEN LAY WANTED THE STATE TO PASS ALONG THOSE VERY HIGH WHOLESALE PRICES. GRAY DAVIS SAID NO. HE ALSO WANTED PRIVATE COMPANIES TO GET ACCESS TO THE ELECTRICITY GRID AND DAVIS SAID NO. THE ARTICLE SAYS THEIR CONVERSATIONS DATE BACK TO DECEMBER 2000 AND CONTINUED UNTIL LAST MAY.

IRONICALLY, THAT MONTH IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY MET WITH KEN LAY HIMSELF. THE ARTICLE -- LET'S SEE WHAT IT SAYS. "RIORDAN HIMSELF MET WITH LAY AT A BEVERLY HILLS HOTEL IN MAY. AT THE MEETING, LAY PRESENTED RIORDAN A FOUR-PAGE PLAN DETAILING A SOLUTION TO CALIFORNIA'S ENERGY CRISIS. THE PLAN CALLED FOR FURTHER ENERGY DEREGULATION. ALSO ATTENDING THE MEETING, ACTOR ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER AND FINANCIER MICHAEL MILKEN." NOW FROM AN INDEPENDENT RELIABLE SOURCE, I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT YOU REQUESTED THAT MEETING WITH KEN LAY. AS A RESULT, DON'T YOU THINK CALIFORNIA VOTERS DESERVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT WITH KEN LAY THAT DAY LAST MAY?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> RIGHT. THANK YOU, ALEX. I DIDN'T REQUEST THE MEETING. IT WAS REQUESTED BY MR. LAY AND THERE WERE ABOUT 25 PEOPLE AT THE MEETING, INCLUDING SUPPORTERS OF GRAY DAVIS, AND IT WAS A VERY OPEN MEETING. MR. LAY DID LAY OUT POINTS THAT HE THOUGHT WOULD TURN THINGS AROUND. I DIFFERED WITH HIM ON A MAJOR, MAJOR POINT WHERE I FELT THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME CONTROL OVER THE PRICES IN THE PIPELINES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, IT WAS ONE MEETING, IT WAS ONE THAT WAS OPEN TO DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS AND EVERYBODY.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WE OUGHT TO BE LOOKING AT WHAT GRAY DAVIS HAS DONE TO AND FOR ENERGY. HE REFUSED TO MEET WITH THE SUPERVISORS OF SAN DIEGO WHO HAD THE FIRST MARKET PROBLEMS ON ENERGY. HE REFUSED TO MEET WITH WARREN CHRISTOPHER AND THE EDISON DIRECTORS WHEN THEY WANTED TO MEET HIM ABOUT THE ONCOMING CRISIS. AND THEN HE WAITED WAY TOO LONG AND, WHEN HE DID REACT, HE OVERREACTED. THE RESULT IS, WE HAVE OVER $43 BILLION DOLLARS IN FLAWED CONTRACTS. WE HAVE A DEBT OF OVER $6 BILLION DOLLARS THAT'S GOT TO BE PAID HOPEFULLY WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR. WE NEED REAL FISCAL LEADERSHIP. WE NEED TO BE PART OF A WESTERN GRID OF OTHER STATES TO SHARE THE GOOD AND THE BAD WITH THE OTHER STATES. WE NEED TO DO WHAT THEY DO AT PUGET SOUND ENERGY AND PUT IN REAL TIME METERING TO SHOW HOW PRICES CAN BE LESS AT DIFFERENT TIMES WHEN THE COMPETITION OR THE PEAK HOURS FOR ENERGY ARE DIFFERENT. SO WE NEED SOMEBODY WHO IS A MANAGER, A LEADER, TO CHANGE THE WAY WE USE ENERGY IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

ALEX SULLIVAN>> TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, DO YOU THINK VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY SHOULD RELEASE HIS PAPERS ON HIS TASKFORCE ON ENERGY?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> I'M NOT GOING TO RUN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. I'M JUST LOOKING FORWARD TO RUNNING THE STATE GOVERNMENT. (LAUGHTER)

STAN STATHAM>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WATCH THE CLOCK, GENTLEMEN AND PANELISTS. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WATCH THE CLOCK VERY CLOSELY AND OUR FIRST REBUTTAL ON ALEX SULLIVAN'S QUESTION GOES NOW TO THE SECRETARY FOR HIS COMMENTS.

BILL JONES>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION ABOUT ENRON. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE CRITICIZING GRAY DAVIS FOR HIS MEETINGS AND, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WHEN YOU WERE MAYOR, DICK, L.A. DWP OVERCHARGED CALIFORNIA DRAMATICALLY FOR THE POWER. WHEN CALIFORNIA NEEDED YOUR HELP, NEEDED YOU TO STEP UP AND HELP THE REST OF THE STATE, WHAT WE SAW WAS $200 MILLION DOLLARS CHARGED TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FROM THE LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND POWER.

DAVID FREEMAN, WHO IS THE ENERGY CZAR FOR CALIFORNIA, USED TO WORK FOR YOU AND, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, HE IS THE ONE THAT LAID OUT THE PLAN THAT YOU WERE JUST NOW CRITICIZING. IF YOU'RE GOING TO HIRE THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST, DICK, YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOSE YOU'VE HIRED. IF S. DAVID FREEMAN IS ANY EXAMPLE, THEN I THINK PART OF THIS ENERGY DEBACLE IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. IF GRAY DAVIS IS CONSIDERED TO BE, AS YOU STATED, THE ENRON GOVERNOR, THEN BASED ON THESE MEETINGS THAT YOU'RE HAVING, MAYBE YOU WERE THE ENRON MAYOR.

STAN STATHAM>> LAST COMMENTS ON THIS QUESTION FROM BILL SIMON.

BILL SIMON>> YOU KNOW, THE ENRON SITUATION IS A TRAGEDY AND IT'S UNFOLDING RIGHT BEFORE US NOW. IT'S JUST AN AWFUL SITUATION AND MY HEART GOES OUT TO ALL THE EMPLOYEES OF ENRON WHO'VE LOST THEIR LIFE SAVINGS AT THE SAME TIME THE SENIOR EXECUTIVES OF ENRON WERE CASHING OUT TO THE TUNE OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THAT'S TERRIBLE. AS A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, I HAVE INVESTIGATED SITUATIONS LIKE THIS. I HAVE PROSECUTED CORPORATE VIOLATORS AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO NOW. WE NEED TO LOOK AT ENRON WITH THE CLOSEST MICROSCOPE THAT WE POSSIBLY CAN AND WHETHER IT'S MEETINGS WHERE KEN LAY ATTENDED WITH WHOEVER, WHETHER IT WAS WITH DICK OR WHOEVER IT IS, NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT VERY CLOSELY.

WITH RESPECT, ALEX, TO YOUR QUESTION REGARDING VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO FORMAL INVESTIGATION GOING, I WOULD RECOMMEND TO THE VICE PRESIDENT, IF HE WAS TO ASK ME, THAT HE TAKE A VERY CLOSE LOOK AT DISCLOSING RELEVANT INFORMATION BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ALLAY PEOPLES' FEARS, TO ALLAY PEOPLE ON THE STREET THAT HAVE LOST THEIR SAVINGS, TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT EVERYTHING REASONABLE IS GOING TO BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET TO THE TRUTH OF THIS TERRIBLE TRAGEDY.

STAN STATHAM>> PATT MORRISON HAS THE FOURTH QUESTION OF THE EVENING THAT GOES TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE.

PATT MORRISON>> SECRETARY JONES, THE CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS SOMETHING CALLED THE UNITY PLEDGE WHICH SAYS "AS GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES, WE PROMISE TO ENDORSE THE NOMINEE OF THE PARTY WITH ENTHUSIASM AND TO MEET WITH THE NOMINEE IN A BREAKFAST THE FOLLOWING DAY. WE FURTHER UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR THE GROWTH OF THE PARTY THAT WE STAND UNITED IN OUR COLLECTIVE EFFORTS TO REGAIN THE GOVERNORSHIP AND PROVIDE A HEALTHY, PROGRESSIVE ENVIRONMENT FOR OUR GRASSROOTS CANDIDATES AND ELECTED REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS." AS OF THIS MORNING, I AM TOLD THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE OF THE THREE WHO HAS NOT SIGNED THIS. WILL YOU BE SIGNING THIS AND, IF NOT, WHY NOT?

BILL JONES>> WELL, PATT, I'M THE ONLY ONE ON THE PLATFORM TONIGHT THAT IN FACT HAS NEVER GIVEN MONEY TO DEMOCRATS AND HAS ALWAYS SUPPORTED REPUBLICANS IN MY WHOLE CAREER. I STRONGLY SUPPORT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, NO QUESTION. IN THE CASE OF DICK RIORDAN AND BILL, THAT QUESTION IS A FAIR ONE TO ASK, BUT THERE'S NO DOUBT WHERE I'LL BE THE MORNING AFTER THIS PRIMARY. I WILL BE THE NOMINEE OF THE PARTY. THE PARTY WILL BE TOGETHER AND I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I WANT TO STRESS, YOU KNOW, IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND THAT THE PARTY IS FOCUSED ON WINNING THIS ELECTION AND IMPROVING CALIFORNIA AND BEATING GRAY DAVIS.

WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT ON THAT, BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. YOU DO NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEMS IN CALIFORNIA BY GIVING TO DEMOCRATS. $10,000 TO WILLY BROWN BACK IN 1990, DICK, THAT'S THE SAME TIME I WAS GIVING $10,000 TO TRY AND BRING A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE TO CALIFORNIA. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE. THIS POLITICS AND THESE CAMPAIGNS ARE NOT JUST ABOUT THE ELECTION. IT'S ABOUT GOVERNING AND YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT YOUR PARTY. THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER I'LL BE WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THE QUESTION IS, BASED ON THE GIVING HISTORY OF DICK RIORDAN, WHEN HE LOSES THE PRIMARY, IS HE GOING TO SUPPORT ME OR GRAY DAVIS, NOTWITHSTANDING THE PLEDGE? BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY, THE MONEY THAT HE HAS GIVEN, $80,000 IN THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS TO GRAY DAVIS, IS MONEY RIGHT NOW GOING AGAINST HIM. THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE PARTIES. THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO GIVE. THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO SUPPORT. I'VE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THE PARTY AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

PATT MORRISON>> BUT SECRETARY JONES, THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE PARTY. THIS IS ABOUT THE NOMINEE. WILL YOU SIGN THIS PLEDGE TO SUPPORT THE NOMINEE?

BILL JONES>> THE PARTY BECOMES THE NOMINEE. I ALWAYS SUPPORT THE PARTY.

STAN STATHAM>> AND OUR COMMENT NOW ON THIS FROM ATTORNEY BUSINESSMAN, BILL SIMON.

BILL SIMON>> I'M NOT SURE THAT WAS AN EXACT ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. (LAUGHTER) BILL, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE ONLY QUESTION I ASKED WAS NOT WHETHER OR NOT I'LL SIGN THE PLEDGE, MY QUESTION WAS WHAT'S FOR BREAKFAST? (LAUGHTER) I BELIEVE, AS BILL STATED IN PART OF HIS ANSWER, IF THERE WAS AN ANSWER, THAT WE OUGHT TO BE INCLUSIVE. WE OUGHT TO REACH OUT. WE OUGHT TO BE UNITED AFTERWARDS. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OUR DIFFERENCES, AS YOU ALL CAN SEE TONIGHT, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO HAVE THEM FOR THE NEXT TWENTY DAYS. I'M POSITIVE OF THAT AS WE SHARE OUR DIFFERENT VISIONS.

BUT I THINK ON MARCH 6, WE OUGHT TO BE AT THAT BREAKFAST SAYING LET'S GO GET GRAY DAVIS, WHOEVER THE NOMINEE IS. I THINK I WILL BE THE NOMINEE FOR REASONS I'D BE HAPPY TO GO INTO AT GREATER LENGTH. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, I SIGNED THAT UNITY PLEDGE BECAUSE I'M A PROUD CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN AND I WILL SUPPORT WHOEVER THE NOMINEE IS AND I HOPE IT'S ME.

STAN STATHAM>> MAYOR RIORDAN, YOUR ACTIVITIES THE MORNING AFTER?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> WELL, BILL SIMON, I AGREE. I WILL BE THERE. I WILL PAY FOR THE BREAKFAST AT THE PANTRY, THAT'S NINTH AND FIGUEROA. (LAUGHTER) AND WE'LL HAVE PRODUCE FROM FRESNO THERE, SIR. BUT, BILL JONES, YOU KNOW, IN THE SAME YEAR I GAVE THAT MONEY TO WILLY BROWN, I GAVE OVER $120,000 TO REPUBLICAN CAUSES, BUT THAT'S GETTING AWAY FROM THE MAIN SUBJECT.

THE MAIN SUBJECT IS HOW DO WE GET RID OF THIS DISGRACEFUL GOVERNOR, GRAY DAVIS? WE NEED TO HAVE A UNITED PARTY. WE CAN DIFFER. YOU CAN'T HAVE A PLATFORM THAT SAYS WOMEN WHO ARE PRO CHOICE CAN'T BE PART OF THE PARTY. YOU NEED TO RESPECT THE DIFFERENCES. YOU NEED TO BRING WOMEN, MINORITIES AND OTHERS INTO THE POWER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FUTURE IN CALIFORNIA. WE HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO'S DONE A HORRIBLE JOB. EDUCATION? WE'RE LAST OR NEXT TO LAST IN MATH AND SCIENCE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, THE HIGH-TECH CAPITAL OF THE WORLD. WE NEED A NEW LEADER IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN SACRAMENTO.

STAN STATHAM>> A NEW QUESTION. THE QUESTION IS FROM ALEX SULLIVAN. IT WILL BE DIRECTED TO BILL SIMON.

ALEX SULLIVAN>> MR. SIMON, YOU'RE A FRIEND OF DICK RIORDAN'S. IN FACT, I THINK YOU ATTEND THE SAME CHURCH TOGETHER. IN LATE 2000, YOU HAD A MEETING WITH MR. RIORDAN IN WHICH HE STRONGLY URGED YOU TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR. AT THE TIME, FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU DECLINED, BUT THEN A FEW MONTHS LATER IN 2001, YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND AND DECIDED TO MAKE A RUN FOR IT.

BUT GOING BACK TO THAT MEETING IN 2000, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU MET WITH DICK AND HE SAID YOU'D BE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR IN SACRAMENTO, I LIKE YOUR PHILOSOPHY OF GOVERNMENT, I SUPPORT YOU ON THE ISSUES, PRO LIFE, I THINK YOU'RE TERRIFIC, I'LL GO COLLECT MONEY FOR YOU, I'LL GO OUT ON THE ROAD TO CAMPAIGN FOR BILL SIMON. THEN WHAT HAPPENS A FEW MONTHS LATER, DICK RIORDAN HIMSELF ANNOUNCES HE'S GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR. NOW AS A GOOD FRIEND, DID YOU FEEL DISAPPOINTED AND UNHAPPY AND MAYBE BETRAYED BY A GOOD FRIEND, DICK? (LAUGHTER)

BILL SIMON>> ALEX, AS MUCH AS IT SOUNDS LIKE IT MAY NOT BE HUMAN NATURE TO BE DISAPPOINTED OR NOT DISAPPOINTED, I WASN'T AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY. I'M GRATEFUL TO DICK FOR ENCOURAGING ME TO DO IT BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS EXPERIENCE TO GET TO KNOW SO MANY THOUSANDS OF CALIFORNIANS OVER THESE LAST TWELVE MONTHS AS I'VE GONE ACROSS THIS STATE AND MET WITH ANY NUMBER OF PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW AND I'VE BEEN ABLE TO FOCUS ON ISSUES LIKE OUR ECONOMY, OUR SCHOOLS, OUR PHYSICAL PLAN. I'M GRATEFUL TO DICK. I'M ALSO GRATEFUL TO ED MEESE, JOHN HARRINGTON, JOHN MCGRAW, FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE STATE PARTY, BILL CLARK. THERE WERE PROBABLY FIFTEEN PEOPLE OR SO THAT ALL ENCOURAGED ME TO RUN. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER. I MEAN, PEOPLE -- GOING BACK TO YOUR EARLIER QUESTION -- PEOPLE WITH ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF VIEWS ON ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF SUBJECTS RECOGNIZED THAT I WAS A LEADER AND I WAS THE KIND OF PERSON THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE IN SACRAMENTO.

SO, NO, I'M NOT RESENTFUL OF DICK. I WELCOME DICK IN THE RACE. WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW AND, DURING THE COURSE OF THE CAMPAIGN, WE WILL SET THEM FORTH AS WE DID AND AS WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY ON MARCH 6, WHOEVER THE NOMINEE IS, WE WILL SUPPORT THAT NOMINEE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT AT THE END OF THE DAY. THE BEST WAY TO REACH OUT IN MY ESTIMATE IS TO DEBATE HONESTLY. PUT ALL THE CARDS ON THE TABLE AND GO FORWARD. THAT'S THE WAY I'VE BEEN IN MY BUSINESS, THAT'S THE WAY I'VE BEEN IN MY CHARITY, AND THAT'S THE WAY I WAS AS AN ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY. EVERYBODY ALWAYS KNEW WHERE BILL SIMON CAME FROM AND WHERE BILL SIMON STOOD ON EVERY ISSUE.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. SIMON. MR. RIORDAN?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> WELL, BILL, AS YOU KNOW, WHAT MR. SULLIVAN STATED WAS THE CONVERSATION WAS NOT EXACTLY THE CONVERSATION. I DID NOT -- WE DIDN'T EVEN DISCUSS ISSUES AS SUCH. I DID SAY, AND I SAY TODAY, I THINK YOU'D MAKE A VERY FINE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. BUT THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GET ELECTED IF YOU'RE TELLING MOST OF THE WOMEN WHO ARE REPUBLICANS THAT WE DON'T WANT YOU IN THE PARTY, WE DON'T WANT TO RESPECT YOUR POINT OF VIEW ON CHOICE. YOU HAVE TO RESPECT DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, WHETHER PRO LIFERS HAVE TO RESPECT PRO CHOICE, PRO CHOICES HAVE TO RESPECT PRO LIFE.

AND AS FAR AS PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTING ME, EIGHTY PERCENT OF THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS FROM CALIFORNIA ARE SUPPORTING ME. DANA ROHRABACHER, CHRIS COX, DUNCAN HUNTER. MORE ELECTED LEGISLATORS FROM SACRAMENTO ARE SUPPORTING ME THAN THE TWO OF YOU AND OVER 240 LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE SUPPORTING ME, AS WELL AS ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER AND GEORGE PATAKI AND OTHERS. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU'VE GOT TO GET AROUND. WE WANT TO GET GRAY DAVIS OUT OF THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE. LET'S UNITE. LET'S RESPECT EACH OTHER.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. RIORDAN. SECRETARY JONES?

BILL JONES>> WELL, I WAS NOT IN ON THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN THESE TWO GENTLEMEN. I'M SURE IT WAS VERY INTERESTING. (LAUGHTER) THE FACT OF THE MATTER, THOUGH, DICK, IS OUR PARTY IS OPEN. AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, WE WELCOME EVERYONE TO THE PARTY. BUT THE WOMEN IN THIS STATE ARE ALSO WORRIED ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY. YOU KNOW, I AUTHORED THE THREE STRIKES LAW WHICH HAS REDUCED CRIME BY TWICE OVER THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. WE HAVE NEVER CLOSED THIS PARTY. PEOPLE, WHETHER YOU'RE PRO CHOICE OR PRO LIFE, ARE WELCOME IN THE PARTY.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER, THOUGH, IS YOU'RE THE ONE THAT KEEPS BRINGING UP THESE WEDGE ISSUES. YOU'RE THE ONE THAT'S DIVIDING THE PARTY, NOT EITHER OF US. AND ALSO, I WANT TO STRESS IT'S SO IMPORTANT TOO THAT YOU KNOW WHY YOU'RE RUNNING. IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TELL THE PUBLIC, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TELL THE VOTERS, WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO WHEN YOU GET THERE AND YOU LOOK AT THE PEOPLE YOU'VE SUPPORTED AND THE POSITIONS YOU'VE TAKEN ON BOTH SIDES OF ALL THESE DIFFERENT ISSUES ALL THE TIME, PROP 13, THE DEATH PENALTY AND WHAT HAVE YOU, HOW DO THE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET EVEN IF THEY WERE TO VOTE FOR YOU? THE POINT IS CONSISTENCY. YOU HAVE NOT BEEN THERE EITHER FOR THE PARTY OR CONSISTENT IN YOUR POSITION AND THE QUESTION SHOULD BE CLEAR. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY BILL, AFTER THAT CONVERSATION, MIGHT HAVE DECIDED TO RUN BECAUSE I'M SURE HE CAME OUT OF THAT CONVERSATION A LITTLE CONFUSED TOO. (LAUGHTER)

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, SECRETARY JONES. A NEW QUESTION FROM DAVE BRYAN FROM KCAL AND THE QUESTION GOES TO MAYOR RIORDAN.

DAVE BRYAN>> MR. MAYOR, I WANT TO ASK YOU, OVER THE WEEKEND YOU SAID IN A DEBATE THAT YOU REGRETTED HAVING SAID IN 1991 THAT YOU FELT ABORTION WAS MURDER. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, DO YOU REGRET IT BECAUSE YOU NEVER ACTUALLY BELIEVED IT OR DO YOU REGRET IT BECAUSE YOU DID BELIEVE IT AT THE TIME, BUT USED AN INFLAMMATORY WORD? I THINK WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS, I'M HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING HOW YOU CAN BELIEVE ABORTION IS MURDER AND BE PRO CHOICE. I CAN UNDERSTAND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ABORTION OR YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU CAN SAY "BUT IT'S YOUR CHOICE". BUT HOW CAN YOU WALK AWAY -- IF YOU THINK IT'S MURDER, HOW CAN YOU SAY IT'S MURDER, BUT IT'S YOUR CHOICE?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> THE USE OF THE WORD "MURDER" WAS AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE ON MY PART BECAUSE I DO STRONGLY DISLIKE ABORTION. BUT I JUST AS STRONGLY SUPPORT AND RESPECT THE RIGHT OF A WOMAN TO MAKE HER OWN CHOICE WITH RESPECT TO HER BODY. I DO NOT BELIEVE ABORTION IS MURDER IN ANY LEGAL SENSE. I SIMPLY DON'T LIKE ABORTION. BUT AS REPUBLICANS, WE HAVE TO RESPECT WOMEN. WELL OVER FIFTY PERCENT OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN ARE PRO CHOICE. THEY WANT THE RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS WITH RESPECT TO THEIR OWN BODIES. IF WE WANT TO BRING THE MILLION AND A HALF WOMEN WHO HAVE LEFT THE PARTY IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, HAVE NOT VOTED FOR REPUBLICANS, BACK INTO THE PARTY, IF WE WANT TO EVER WIN STATEWIDE ELECTIONS AGAIN, WE'D BETTER RESPECT EVERYBODY, WHETHER THEY'RE PRO LIFE OR PRO CHOICE.

DAVE BRYAN>> DID YOU BELIEVE IT AT THE TIME AND CHANGE YOUR MIND OR DID YOU NOT BELIEVE IT WHEN YOU SAID IT?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> I THINK WHAT I SAID WAS THAT IT WAS AN EMOTIONAL WORD. I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT THAT, IN ANY LEGAL SENSE, ABORTION IS MURDER, BUT I THINK THAT IT SHOWED MY EMOTIONS. I STRONGLY DISLIKE ABORTION, BUT JUST AS STRONGLY SUPPORT THE RIGHT OF A WOMAN TO MAKE HER OWN CHOICE.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. RIORDAN. IF I COULD ASK ALL THREE CANDIDATES AND ALL THREE PANELISTS TO KIND OF STAY ON THE CLOCK. WE'RE LOSING GROUND SLOWLY BUT SURELY. YOUR REBUTTAL, SECRETARY JONES?

BILL JONES>> WELL, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE FEDERAL LAW IS VERY CLEAR IN THIS MATTER. THE CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION, THE PRIVACY RIGHTS, ARE EVEN MORE CLEAR WITH RESPECT TO THE RIGHT OF WOMEN OR ANYONE ELSE IN THIS AREA. BUT SPECIFICALLY, DICK, THIS IS MY POINT. I MEAN, THE QUESTION GOES TO THE REAL ISSUE. YOU COME DOWN ON ALL SIDES OF EVERY ISSUE. AGAIN, I WANT TO STRESS THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS OPEN TO THE WOMEN. WE WELCOME PEOPLE THAT ARE PRO CHOICE OR PRO LIFE. I DO THAT, PERIOD. I'M NOT TRYING TO ENFORCE MY WILL ON ANYONE AND, AS GOVERNOR, THERE'S A LIMITED AMOUNT THAT CAN BE DONE IN THIS AREA ANYWAY.

BUT THE REAL QUESTION HERE IS THE INCONSISTENCY. IT'S NOT ONLY ON THIS. WOMEN ARE CONCERNED ABOUT EDUCATION TOO. WHY DIDN'T YOU ALLOW L.A. UNIFIED TO BE BROKEN UP? WHY DIDN'T YOU GIVE SELF-DETERMINATION, WHICH IS A STRONG REPUBLICAN TENET IN OUR PHILOSOPHY, TO THE PEOPLE IN SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SO THEY COULD IN FACT ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN TO GO TO SCHOOLS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD? WHERE'S THE FUNDAMENTAL PHILOSOPHY? THAT'S THE QUESTION HERE. THE INCONSISTENCY CONTINUES TO BUILD AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT HAS THE WHOLE PARTY CALLING YOUR CANDIDACY INTO QUESTION. YOU HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT. YOU HAVE TO SAY WHAT YOU THINK AND THE PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU. BILL SIMON'S COMMENTS ON THIS?

BILL SIMON>> YOU KNOW, IT IS TRUE THAT DICK HAS BEEN INCONSISTENT ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT AND THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT LEADERSHIP AT THE END OF THE DAY. LEADERSHIP IS ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS, ONE OF WHICH IS CONSISTENCY. YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOUR LEADER IS GOING TO STAND FOR AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT ALL OF US ON THIS STAGE TALK ABOUT OUR VIEWS ON ALL THE ISSUES THAT FACE OUR STATE. DICK, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU KNOW, AS I TRAVELED THE STATE THESE LAST TWELVE MONTHS AND I'VE TALKED TO THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, THE ISSUES THAT ARE ON PEOPLES' MINDS MOST OF THE TIME ARE THE ECONOMY, OUR SCHOOLS AND OUR PHYSICAL PLAN, OUR ROADS, OUR WATER AND OUR POWER.

THERE ARE ISSUES THAT AFFECT CALIFORNIANS EVERY SINGLE DAY AND WE NEED TO GIVE CALIFORNIANS, NOT JUST REPUBLICANS, BUT ALL CALIFORNIANS, OUR IDEAS ON THESE ISSUES AND WE NEED TO DO IT IN A CONSISTENT WAY BECAUSE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEFEAT GRAY DAVIS BECAUSE WE'VE GOT BETTER IDEAS, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT SOLUTIONS THAT RESONATE WITH PEOPLE. I WOULDN'T FOCUS ON ONE PARTICULAR ISSUE AS A LITMUS TEST THAT WILL CHASE ANY PARTICULAR GROUP, WHETHER IT BE WOMEN OR ANY OTHER GROUP. I KNOW. I'VE BEEN REACHING OUT TO WOMEN FOR AN AWFUL LONG TIME. I STARTED BECAUSE I HAVE FOUR SISTERS. (LAUGHTER)

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. SIMON. ALEX SULLIVAN HAS A NEW QUESTION AND IT GOES TO THE SECRETARY, MR. JONES.

ALEX SULLIVAN>> RIGHT. THANKS, STAN. SPEAKING OF LITMUS TESTS, IF YOU HAVE A PARTISAN POLITICAL LITMUS TEST WHEN IT COMES TO SOLVING THE BUDGET CRISIS IN SACRAMENTO, OVER A DECADE AGO, GOVERNOR PETE WILSON, FACING A $14 BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT, CAME UP WITH SPENDING CUTS. HE ALSO CAME UP WITH GOING INTO VARIOUS POTS OF MONEY, PENSION FUNDS, BANKS, AND YOU VOTED FOR THE PLAN. LAST MONTH IN THE STATE OF THE STATE MESSAGE WITH GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS, IT SEEMED AS IF HE OFFERED A SOMEWHAT SIMILAR MENU OF CREATING ACCOUNTING AND MONEY TRANSFERS ALONG WITH SPENDING CUTS. COULD IT BE THAT YOU HAVE A DOUBLE STANDARD? IT'S ACCEPTABLE IF IT'S DONE BY A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, BUT IT'S FINANCIALLY UNSOUND AND WRONG IF PROPOSED BY A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR?

BILL JONES>> WELL, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WE HAD A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION TEN YEARS AGO. THIRTY-FIVE PERCENT OF THE STATE BUDGET WAS IN DEFICIT AT THE TIME. IN CONTRAST TO TODAY, WE'RE ONLY TWELVE PERCENT. TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATION. THEN, I DIDN'T AGREE WITH ALL THE PLAN TEN YEARS AGO, BUT I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE AND I STEPPED UP TO LEAD JUST AS RONALD REAGAN HAD A SIMILAR SITUATION IN THE LATE 60'S THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF WHEN ABOUT THIRTY TO FORTY PERCENT OF THE BUDGET WAS IN DEFICIT AND CONSERVATIVES AND REPUBLICANS, ALL DIFFERENT STRIPES, STEPPED UP TO LEAD IN THAT SITUATION.

IN CONTRAST TO MY COLLEAGUES HERE, BILL HAS NEVER HAD TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'VE HAD TO ACTUALLY CAST A VOTE. IN THE CASE OF DICK, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION OF TAXES, DICK IS THE ONE THAT SAID CALIFORNIA IS CERTAINLY NOT UNDER-TAXED, WITH RESPECT TO A COMMENT HE MADE ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO ABOUT THE TIME WE WERE DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE. HE'S THE ONE THAT'S BROUGHT UP ADDING INTERNET TAXES. THE LAST THING WE WANT TO DO IS TAX THE INTERNET AS THE NEW GROWTH INDUSTRY IN THIS STATE.

THE IMPORTANT POINT HERE IS THAT I HAD TO LEAD AT A DIFFICULT TIME. I HAVE LAID OUT A PLAN -- IT'S ON OUR INTERNET SITE -- TO BALANCE THE BUDGET WITH NO NEW TAXES. THIS IS TWELVE PERCENT OF THE TOTAL BUDGET IN DEFICIT DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS TEN YEARS AGO. THIS BUDGET CAN BE BALANCED. I LAID OUT A PLAN AND I WILL BALANCE THIS BUDGET WITH NO NEW TAXES JUST AS I SAID IN OUR OUTLINE.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU. COMMENTS FROM BILL SIMON?

BILL SIMON>> YOU KNOW, I SAID ON SATURDAY, BILL, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WHAT STRIKES ME AS DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT THIS TIME AROUND VERSUS '92 WHEN YOU HELPED GET THE TAX INCREASE THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE IS THAT NOW YOU'RE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, IT'S NOT DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF THE NUMBERS. IN FACT, IT'S ALMOST EERILY SIMILAR. THE REASON IT'S EERILY SIMILAR IS THAT THE NUMBERS ARE JUST ABOUT THE SAME. IT'S ABOUT A $13 BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT. DAVIS HAS MARKED IT DOWN NOW TO $12 BILLION, BUT AS OF LAST WEEK, AS I PREDICTED, TAX RECEIPTS ARE LOWER, REVISED DOWNWARD FOR THE FOURTH TIME IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS. SO I ESTIMATE NOW THAT OUR DEFICIT COULD EASILY INCREASE ABOVE $13 BILLION DOLLARS. NOW I WAS THE FIRST CANDIDATE TO AUTHOR A FULL BUDGET PLAN BACK IN SEPTEMBER WHEN I FIRST PROJECTED A $13 BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT. I DID THAT PLAN WITHOUT RAISING TAXES AND I THINK THAT'S IN PART WHY I'M THE ONLY CANDIDATE ON THE STAGE THAT'S GOTTEN THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE LEADING TAXPAYER ASSOCIATIONS, LIKE THE HOWARD JARVIS TAXPAYER ASSOCIATION AND THE CALIFORNIA STATE TAX LIMITATIONS COMMITTEE. THE REASON IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CAN TRUST ME THE BEST TO BALANCE THE BUDGET WITHOUT RAISING TAXES.

NOW I HAVE TO TELL YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THIS COULD BE THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUE IN THE SHORT TERM. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE LITMUS TEST, YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT PEOPLES' POCKETBOOKS AND PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO MAKE THEIR MORTGAGES AND PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO CONDUCT THEIR LIVES, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A GOVERNMENT THAT DOES NOT TREAT TAXPAYER DOLLARS AS IF IT WAS THEIR OWN. I WILL END THAT MENTALITY WHEN I GET TO SACRAMENTO.

STAN STATHAM>> YOUR BUDGET COMMENTS, MR. RIORDAN?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> WELL, BILL, I RECEIVED THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE PAUL GANZ ORGANIZATION. HE WAS CO-AUTHOR OF PROP 13. PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK AT OUR RECORDS. YOU KNOW, WORDS, WORDS, WORDS. BUT LET'S LOOK AT ACTION. I HAD EIGHT STRAIGHT BALANCED BUDGETS, NO INCREASE IN TAXES WHATSOEVER. WE HAD THE LARGEST SURPLUS IN THE HISTORY OF OUR CITY. I BROUGHT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF NEW JOBS BY BEING FRIENDLY TO BUSINESS. AS GOVERNOR, I'M GOING TO TURN AROUND THE MESS THAT GRAY DAVIS HAS GOTTEN US INTO. I WOULD BE CUTTING THE BUDGET NOW, NOT WAITING. I WOULD FREEZE WAGES AND JOBS. I WOULD GET RID OF DUPLICATIVE DEPARTMENTS IN THE STATE. I WOULD HAVE ZERO-BASE BUDGETING, SO THAT WE COULD GO ON AND NOT HAVE THE SINS OF GRAY DAVIS AND THE GOVERNMENT THERE TODAY PAID FOR BY OUR CHILDREN AND OUR GRANDCHILDREN.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. RIORDAN. WE'RE RIGHT ON TIME, GENTLEMEN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. A QUESTION NOW FROM DAVE BRYAN AND IT GOES TO ATTORNEY BUSINESSMAN, BILL SIMON.

DAVE BRYAN>> MR. SIMON, YOU HAVE SAID THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN, IN FACT, AS FAR AS I KNOW, THROUGH YOUR ENTIRE CAREER, THAT YOU'RE PRO LIFE, ANTI-ABORTION RIGHTS. MY QUESTION IS THIS. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR FEELING IS THAT THE GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA DOESN'T HAVE MUCH CONTROL OVER ABORTION-RELATED ISSUES. HOWEVER, SOME ABORTION RIGHTS GROUPS ARE NERVOUS THAT, IF YOU WERE ELECTED GOVERNOR, YOU WOULD CUT FUNDING FOR MEDI-CAL FUNDED ABORTIONS FOR LOW-INCOME WOMEN AND MIGHT USE THIS AS A -- YOU SAID NO LITMUS TEST A MOMENT AGO, BUT THE CONCERN IS THAT YOU MIGHT USE THIS ISSUE AS A LITMUS TEST FOR JUDGES WHO YOU APPOINT.

BILL SIMON>> LET ME RESPOND TO EACH OF THOSE QUESTIONS. WITH RESPECT TO THE FIRST QUESTION, YOU KNOW, REGARDING CUTS IN FUNDING. I HAVE SAID, AND YOU'RE CORRECT, I'VE BEEN VERY CONSISTENT SINCE THE START OF THE CAMPAIGN THAT I BELIEVE ABORTION IS WRONG, BUT I UNDERSTAND THE LAW AND I WILL UPHOLD THE LAW. YOU KNOW, I TOOK AN OATH AS AN ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY TO UPHOLD THE LAW AND THERE WERE LOTS OF LAWS THAT I DIDN'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH, BUT I UPHELD THEM. I'LL TAKE THE VERY SAME OATH AS GOVERNOR AND I PROMISE THAT'S WHAT I WILL DO. I WILL UPHOLD THE LAW.

WITH RESPECT TO YOUR SECOND QUESTION REGARDING A LITMUS TEST, I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A ONE-QUESTION LITMUS TEST. JUST AS I DISAGREED WITH DICK, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE CAN REACH OUT TO MILLIONS OF WOMEN MERELY BECAUSE OF AN ANSWER TO ONE QUESTION, I DON'T THINK THAT'S CORRECT. I DON'T THINK IT'S PROPER, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT A JUDGE FOR A SECOND, YOU KNOW, HAVING BEEN VERY ACTIVE IN THE LEGAL FIELD FOR MANY YEARS, I'M VERY RESPECTFUL OF HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR A GOVERNOR TO APPOINT COMPETENT JUDGES WITH GOOD BACKGROUNDS THAT HAVE A BREADTH OF EXPERIENCE NOT JUST WITH RESPECT TO ONE PARTICULAR AREA. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THE BEST JUDGES POSSIBLE SO WE CAN HAVE, IN MY ESTIMATE, A LITMUS TEST, WHICH I UNDERSTAND GRAY DAVIS HAD. I DON'T APPROVE OF THAT AND I WOULD NOT HAVE SUCH A LITMUS TEST WERE I TO BE GOVERNOR.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. SIMON. MR. RIORDAN?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'VE BEEN, BILL, FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, BUT PRO LIFE AND PRO CHOICE IS A SHORTHAND WAY FOR WOMEN TO SAY IF SOMEBODY IS NOT PRO CHOICE, THEY'RE NOT PRO AFTER-SCHOOL CARE, THEY'RE NOT PRO DAYCARE FOR CHILDREN, THEY'RE NOT PRO HEALTHCARE. THERE IS NO WAY THAT A REPUBLICAN CAN WIN IN THIS STATE UNLESS THEY RESPECT WOMEN WHO ARE PRO CHOICE, UNLESS THEY SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PUT THAT IN THE REPUBLICAN PLATFORM AND TELL WOMEN WE DON'T WANT YOU TO BE REPUBLICANS.

LOOK AT MY RECORD IN L.A. ON SCHOOLS. I'M IN FAVOR OF BREAKING UP SCHOOLS, BUT NOT INTO THE EIGHTH BIGGEST SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE COUNTRY. I WANT SMALL SCHOOLS WITH DISTRICTS WHERE THE SUPERINTENDENT CAN RELATE TO EVERY SCHOOL EVERY DAY. I ALSO WAS THE PERSON WHO, TWENTY YEARS AGO, I READ "A NATION AT RISK" THAT SAID IF EVERY CHILD CANNOT READ AND WRITE BY THE SECOND GRADE, EACH OF THOSE CHILDREN THAT CAN'T WILL BE LOST FOR LIFE. I'VE SPENT THE LAST TWENTY YEARS OF MY LIFE HELPING YOUNG CHILDREN TO LEARN TO READ AND WRITE STARTING IN KINDERGARTEN.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. RIORDAN. SECRETARY JONES?

BILL JONES>> YOU KNOW, DICK, I REJECT THIS ATTITUDE THAT BECAUSE BILL DOESN'T HAPPEN TO BE OF YOUR PERSUASION ON PRO CHOICE THAT SOMEHOW HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT CHILDREN OR I DON'T CARE ABOUT CHILDREN. YOU ALWAYS TIE THOSE THINGS TOGETHER. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. I'VE BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS PARTY FOR THIRTY YEARS. THIS IS THE PARTY OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN. WE CARE. WE'VE ALWAYS CARED. BUT IT'S NOT JUST THE WEDGE ISSUES THAT YOU KEEP BRINGING UP TO TRY AND DIVIDE US. YOU'RE THE ONE THAT'S MAKING THIS A WEDGE ISSUE.

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT EDUCATION. YOU PROMISED. YOU SAID THAT YOU WOULD LOOK AT BREAKING UP THE SCHOOLS IN LOS ANGELES. YOU GOT 750,000 STUDENTS LOCKED IN SCHOOLS THAT ARE FAILING AND YOU LET THEM FAIL WHILE YOU WERE MAYOR. THAT'S WRONG. AND LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THE WOMEN. THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE CHILDREN BECAUSE I'VE TALKED TO THEM. MY PLAN FOR EDUCATION MOVES THE MONEY RIGHT DOWN TO THE SCHOOL SITES, BREAKS UP THE DISTRICTS, GETS THE MONEY RIGHT TO WHERE THE MOTHERS ARE.

I WILL TELL YOU THAT THE MOTHERS I TALKED TO, THE WOMEN I TALKED TO, MY FAMILY AND OTHERS, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT SAFE STREETS, GOOD EDUCATION AND JOBS FOR THEIR CHILDREN. IT'S NOT JUST THE WEDGE ISSUES YOU KEEP DRIVING ON. EVEN THOUGH THE QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED, I REJECT THE FACT THAT JUST BECAUSE BILL MIGHT BE PRO LIFE OR YOU MIGHT BE PRO CHOICE THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE WOMEN. THAT'S NOT TRUE, IT'S NEVER BEEN TRUE AND IT'S NOT TRUE TODAY.

STAN STATHAM>> PATT MORRISON FROM THE L.A. TIMES HAS A BRAND NEW QUESTION AND IT GOES TO MAYOR RIORDAN.

PATT MORRISON>> THANK YOU. AS MAYOR, MR. RIORDAN, YOU SUPPORTED THE PLAYA VISTA COMPLEX IN THE BOLSA CHICA WETLANDS AREA AND YOU OPPOSED ENVIRONMENTAL AND NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS IN FAVOR OF BRINGING INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT TO THE CORNFIELDS, TO AREAS THAT ARE NOW BEING TURNED INTO PARKS. YOU'VE FREQUENTLY SAID THAT ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS SHOULD GIVE WAY TO MORE PRESSING NEEDS LIKE JOB CREATIONS. DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF AN ENVIRONMENTALIST AND, IF SO, WHY?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> MY RECORD ON ENVIRONMENT WAS EXCELLENT AS MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES. I SETTLED THE MONO LAKE DISPUTE AFTER FIFTY YEARS OF OTHER PEOPLE TRYING. I CLEANED OUT THE PIPES THAT BROUGHT WASTE TO THE SANTA MONICA BAY. I ALSO SPENT TENS UPON TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO CLEAN UP THE DUST PROBLEMS IN THE OWENS VALLEY. ON PLAYA VISTA, WE HAD A SETTLEMENT WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP ABOUT TWELVE YEARS AGO, BEFORE I WAS MAYOR. I WAS A LAWYER FOR THE COUNTY AT THE TIME AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP WAS VERY HAPPY. THEN WHEN PLAYA VISTA CAME AS A DEVELOPMENT, A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP GOT INVOLVED.

THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE. OUR HOUSING, WE'RE ONLY BUILDING ABOUT HALF THE HOUSES WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THE GROWTH OF CALIFORNIA AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE COST BENEFIT OF EVERYTHING. BUT WE DON'T WANT HALF OF OUR STATE IN THE FUTURE TO BE HOMELESS. SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH ISSUE CAREFULLY AND NOT BE CAUGHT ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU. SECRETARY JONES, YOUR COMMENTS?

BILL JONES>> WELL, ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES ARE OF GREAT CONCERN. I LED THE WAY AND CO-CHAIRED THE LARGEST ENVIRONMENTAL WATER RESTORATION BOND IN 1996 THAT HAD BEEN PASSED AT THAT POINT ALONG WITH DEMOCRAT STATE SENATOR, JIM COSTA. WE'VE WORKED HARD TO BRING ADDITIONAL WATER TO CALIFORNIA. OUR PLAN, THE PLAN THAT I LAID OUT WORKING WITH THE CALFED PROCESS, SET UP THE FIRST FACILITY TO BE DISCUSSED NOW FOR ADDITIONAL WATER STORAGE NORTH OF SACRAMENTO AND WEST OF WILLIAMS. ACTUALLY STORE MORE WATER TO HELP THE ENVIRONMENT AND TO HELP THE URBAN AREAS. BUT I PUT THAT DEAL TOGETHER AS I ALWAYS HAVE BY BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

YES, THESE ISSUES ARE DIFFICULT AND I UNDERSTAND AS YOU WERE MAYOR THAT YOU HAD YOUR CHALLENGES. I WILL AGREE 100 PERCENT THAT GROWTH IS THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH FOR ALL OF US AND WE HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO MITIGATE IT. BUT MY RECORD ON THE ENVIRONMENT IS CLEAR. I WAS THE AUTHOR OF THE FOOD SAFETY ACT OF '88 AND I WAS ALSO CO-AUTHOR OF THE SAFE DRINKING WATER ACT OF '89. ALL THESE MEASURES WORKED TO MAKE SURE THAT CALIFORNIA HAS STRONG ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS IN THE FUTURE.

STAN STATHAM>> MR. SIMON, YOUR COMMENTS ON PATT'S QUESTION?

BILL SIMON>> YOU KNOW, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS GO BACK, MAYBE TAKE FIFTEEN SECONDS OF MY TIME AND JUST GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT DICK JUST SAID WITH RESPECT TO MY OWN INVOLVEMENT WITH AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMS AND BEING PRO KIDS. I THINK DICK KNOWS, FOR EXAMPLE, MY WIFE, CINDY, IS ON THE BOARD OF L.A.'S BEST. I'VE BEEN ACTIVE IN L.A.'S BEST. THAT IS AN AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAM. I TAKE UMBRAGE WITH THAT BECAUSE I'VE SPENT MY CAREER BEING ACTIVE WITH CHILDREN, WHETHER IT BE IN COVENANT HOUSE OR CATHOLIC CHARITIES OR A VARIETY OF SCHOLARSHIP FUNDS THAT MY WIFE AND I AND OUR FAMILY HAVE SET UP. WE ARE PRO KIDS.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I'VE HEARD THAT SOMEONE WHO'S PRO LIFE CAN'T BE PRO KIDS. ACTUALLY, I THINK IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND. BEING PRO LIFE IS CONSISTENT WITH BEING PRO KIDS AND WE ARE PRO KIDS. I'VE GOT FOUR KIDS OF MY OWN. YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT WE'VE BEEN HEAVILY INVOLVED WITH AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMS. WE'VE BEEN HEAVILY INVOLVED WITH DAYCARE. WE'VE BEEN HEAVILY INVOLVED WITH HELPING PEOPLE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN ALL ABOUT AS BILL SIMON. THAT'S WHAT MY FAMILY HAS BEEN ALL ABOUT. HELPING PEOPLE, HELPING KIDS, MAKING SURE KIDS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY.

AS FAR AS THE ENVIRONMENT GOES, I WOULD AGREE WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A BALANCE. IT'S GOT TO BE BASED ON SOUND SCIENCE AT THE END OF THE DAY. I LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK UP IN KLAMATH WHERE THE FARMERS WERE TOLD "YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT WATER LAST SUMMER." WELL, IT'S A LITTLE BIT LATE FOR THOSE FARMERS RIGHT NOW, ISN'T IT? WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS BALANCE PROPERTY RIGHTS AND ANIMALS RIGHTS AND I THINK, TOO OFTEN, IT'S NOT BASED ON SOUND SCIENCE. SO I WOULD LOOK TO SOUND SCIENCE TO TELL US THE WAY IN ANY ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE AND I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH A LOT OF THEM OVER THE YEARS IN MY BUSINESS.

STAN STATHAM>> THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FOR TONIGHT'S VERY QUICK HOUR. TWO MINUTES EACH FOR CLOSING COMMENTS, AND THE FIRST CLOSING COMMENTS ARE FROM CALIFORNIA'S SECRETARY OF STATE, BILL JONES.

BILL JONES>> I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR WATCHING TONIGHT. I WANT TO THANK THE OTHER CANDIDATES AND THE SPONSORS AND, MOST OF ALL, I WANT TO ASK FOR YOUR VOTE. I WANT TO ASK FOR YOUR VOTE TO HELP RESTORE THE CALIFORNIA DREAM. MY FAMILY HAS BEEN PART OF THAT DREAM. WE HAVE WORKED THE LAND IN THE CENTRAL VALLEY FOR THREE GENERATIONS. OUR LEGACY AS AMERICANS AND AS CALIFORNIANS IS ONE OF FREEDOM AND OPPORTUNITY. OUR LEGACY AS REPUBLICANS COMES FROM ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND WE NEED TO BUILD ON THAT LEGACY TO BUILD HOPE FOR THE FUTURE. HOPE. HOPE IS KEY, BUT YOU CAN'T BUY HOPE WITH DOLLARS FROM MILLIONAIRES. YOU HAVE TO EARN THE HOPE FOR THE DREAM THROUGH YEARS OF SERVICE. I HAVE EARNED IT BY BUILDING TRUST WITH THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA. THE PEOPLE HAVE TO GET TO KNOW YOU. THEY HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT AND THEY ALSO HAVE TO KNOW WHERE YOU WILL LEAD THEM.

I'VE LEARNED LEADERSHIP FROM SOME OF THE BEST. I STOOD WITH RONALD REAGAN ON CAMPUSES AS STUDENT BODY PRESIDENT OF FRESNO STATE THIRTY YEARS AGO TO HELP QUELL THE DISTURBANCES. I STOOD WITH GEORGE DEUKMEJIAN TWENTY YEARS AGO IN THE AFTERMATH OF JERRY BROWN AND GRAY DAVIS TRYING TO BRING CALIFORNIA BACK AND I STOOD WITH PETE WILSON TEN YEARS AGO AT THE DEPTHS OF THE RECESSION IN CALIFORNIA, MADE SOME TOUGH DECISIONS AND CALIFORNIA AND L.A. AND OTHER CITIES WERE ABLE TO HAVE A STRONG DECADE OF THE 90'S. I EARNED AND I WORKED HARD TO LEARN FROM PEOPLE LIKE THESE GENTLEMEN. AND I REMEMBER, BACK IN 1991, THE LAST TIME PRESIDENT REAGAN CAME TO THE LEGISLATURE, HE MADE A SPEECH AND HE SAID THIS. HE SAID, "IT'S NOT IF OR WHEN, IT'S HOW." HOW IS THE VISION I HAVE FOR CALIFORNIA. A VISION OF FEWER CRIME VICTIMS, BETTER EDUCATED STUDENTS, HEALTHIER FAMILIES AND JOBS FOR ALL THAT WANT THEM.

I WANT TO THANK MY GREAT CHAIRMAN, GEORGE DEUKMEJIAN. I WANT TO THANK MY WIFE, DAUGHTER, WENDY, ANDREA, OUR WHOLE FAMILY AND HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY TO THEM. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I WANT TO TELL THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA THAT I WILL WORK TO REBUILD THE CALIFORNIA DREAM FOR MY FAMILY AND FOR ALL OF THEIRS. THANK YOU AND GOOD EVENING.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. SECRETARY. YOUR FINAL COMMENTS, MAYOR RIORDAN?

RICHARD RIORDAN>> BILL AND BILL, I KNOW YOU CARE, BUT MY POINT IS, WOMEN DON'T KNOW THAT AND ALL OF THE TESTS SHOW THAT. BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REAL ISSUES IN THIS CAMPAIGN. GRAY DAVIS HAS SPENT OVER $6 MILLION DOLLARS OF NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING TO HELP BEAT ME IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY. WHY? BECAUSE HE KNOWS I'M THE ONE THAT CAN BEAT HIM IN NOVEMBER. I'M THE REPUBLICAN HE FEARS THE MOST. GRAY DAVIS HAS BEEN HIDING HIS RECORD BEHIND THESE KIND OF ADS. HIS $12 BILLION DOLLARS IN SURPLUS THAT'S BEEN TURNED INTO OVER $12 BILLION DOLLARS OF DEFICIT, HIS INCREASE IN OUR ANNUAL BUDGET BY 37 PERCENT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

CALIFORNIA IS THE FIFTH BIGGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD. ONLY FOUR COUNTRIES BIGGER THAN US. WE'RE EXPECTED TO HAVE OVER FORTY MILLION IN OUR STATE WITHIN TEN YEARS. AND YET UNDER THE FAILED GRAY DAVIS, OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM IS ALMOST AT THE BOTTOM, LAST OR ALMOST LAST IN MATH AND SCIENCE. OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS IN CRISIS. WE'RE 35,000 NURSES SHORT IN THE STATE. OVER SEVEN MILLION PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, INCLUDING A MILLION AND A HALF CHILDREN. TRANSPORTATION IS IN TOTAL DISARRAY. HOUSING? WE'RE BUILDING ABOUT HALF THE HOUSING WE NEED AND WE ESSENTIALLY HAVE NO LONG-TERM WATER POLICY. AS MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES, I HAD EIGHT STRAIGHT BALANCED BUDGETS. WE CUT CRIME BY FIFTY PERCENT AND WE CREATED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF NEW JOBS. WE NEED A GOVERNOR IN CALIFORNIA WHO HAS MANAGEMENT SKILLS, WHO PUTS ACTION AHEAD OF WORDS, WHO HAS A PROVEN RECORD, PARTICULARLY ONE WHO THINKS CALIFORNIA AND PUTS CALIFORNIA FIRST. I OFFER MYSELF AS THAT CANDIDATE.

STAN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, MR. RIORDAN. CLOSING STATEMENTS FINALLY FROM BILL SIMON.

BILL SIMON>> THANK YOU, STAN. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THANK YOU, FELLOW OPPONENTS. FROM THE VERY START OF MY CAMPAIGN, I'VE TRIED TO EMPHASIZE THREE THINGS. WHY I WANT TO BE YOUR GOVERNOR, WHAT I WILL DO AS YOUR GOVERNOR AND HOW MY UNIQUE BACKGROUND IS SPECIFICALLY SITUATED TO GET THE JOB DONE. I AM THE CONSERVATIVE IN THIS RACE. BUT AS RONALD REAGAN ONCE SAID, "IT'S NOT ABOUT LEFT OR RIGHT, IT'S ABOUT GOING FORWARD" AND THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO. I WANT TO MOVE CALIFORNIA FORWARD AND IN ORDER TO MOVE CALIFORNIA FORWARD, I BRING A CONSISTENT CLEAR SET OF MESSAGES TO YOU ALL THIS EVENING AS THEY'VE BEEN CONSISTENT AND CLEAR FROM THE START OF THE CAMPAIGN.

FIRST, LOWER TAXES. SECOND, SMALLER GOVERNMENT, CLOSE TO THE PEOPLE AND FOCUSED ON PUBLIC SAFETY AND EDUCATION. THIRD, SCHOOLS THAT TEACH THE BASIC READING, WRITING, MATH AND CHARACTER. AND FINALLY, RESPECT FOR TRADITIONAL VALUES THAT HAVE ALWAYS MADE CALIFORNIA SO GREAT. OUR CURRENT GOVERNOR HASN'T LED. UNDER DAVIS, WE'VE JUST CAREENED FROM CRISIS TO CRISIS. IN ORDER TO END THE DAVIS DISASTER, WE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO OFFER A CLEAR CONTRAST AND I AM THE CANDIDATE THAT HAS OFFERED THE CLEAREST CONTRAST.

AGAINST DAVIS'S CAREER OF POLITICAL DEALS, I OFFER FRESH IDEAS AND A FRESH PERSPECTIVE. DAVIS OFFERS CALIFORNIA HIGH UTILITY BILLS, GRIDLOCK ROADS AND WATER SHORTAGE. I HAVE PUT FORTH SOUND PLANS TO GET BACK OUR FUTURE. DAVIS OFFERS SCHOOLS MIRED IN FAILURE. I PLEDGE TO FIGHT FOR ACCOUNTABILITY AND STANDARDS FOR OUR STUDENTS. DAVIS OFFERS BIG GOVERNMENT, HIGHER TAXES AND BUDGET DEFICITS. I'M THE ONLY CANDIDATE THAT YOU CAN TRUST NOT TO RAISE YOUR TAXES.

YES, I'LL HIRE THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST, BUT THEY WILL BE ENDOWED AND IMBUED WITH MY VISION, A VISION OF A RISING CALIFORNIA THAT'S PROSPEROUS, CONFIDENT AND SAFE. I'M HONORED THAT SO MANY PEOPLE FROM THE CALIFORNIA ORGANIZATION OF POLICE AND SHERIFFS, THE HOWARD JARVIS TAXPAYERS ASSOCIATION, MANY ELECTED OFFICIALS AND, OF COURSE, MY OLD BOSS, RUDY GIULIANI, HAVE ENDORSED ME AS THE BEST CANDIDATE TO LEAD THIS STATE FORWARD AND I WOULD BE MOST HONORED TO EARN YOUR TRUST AND YOUR VOTE TO BE OUR NEXT GOVERNOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND GOD BLESS YOU, AND GOD BLESS CALIFORNIA.

JOHN STATHAM>> THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, VERY MUCH.

VAL>> WE'VE JUST SEEN A DEBATE BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES FOR THE REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL NOMINATION. IF YOU MISSED ANY PART OF IT, YOU CAN LISTEN TO IT LATER TONIGHT ON OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG AND THE ENTIRE DEBATE WILL RE-AIR AT MIDNIGHT. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GOOD EVENING.

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