2/14/02

LC020214

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> WHICH IS MORE DAMAGING? CALLING ABORTION MURDER OR TAKING MONEY FROM ENRON? WE'LL HOLD THE CANDIDATES' FEET TO THE FIRE IN TONIGHT'S "REALITY CHECK".

RICHARD RIORDAN>> GRAY, YOU'RE A DISGRACE. YOU GET AT YOUR OFFICE ABOUT 11:00 EVERY DAY, YOU DIAL FOR DOLLARS ALL DAY LONG.

VAL>> AFRICAN-AMERICAN MINISTERS ARE CALLING IT "HUSH MONEY" AND THIS WEEK THEY TORE UP THE CHECKS FROM MAYOR JAMES HAHN. WAS THE MAYOR TRYING TO BUY BLACK SUPPORT IN HIS BATTLE WITH LAPD CHIEF, BERNARD PARKS? TONIGHT WE'LL HEAR BOTH SIDES.

JESS>> IT'S ONE OF THE WORST EXAMPLES OF CORRUPTION AND INFLUENCE-PEDDLING IN U.S. HISTORY. THE TEAPOT DOME SCANDAL WAS ABOUT BIG OIL AND BIG BUSINESS. IT ROCKED WASHINGTON IN THE 20'S AND CREATED A POLITICAL NIGHTMARE FOR OIL TYCOON, EDWARD DOHENEY. WAS DOHENEY THE KEN LAY OF HIS DAY AND IS THE ENRON SCANDAL ABOUT TO REPLACE TEAPOT DOME AS THE HALLMARK OF POLITICAL CORRUPTION? TONIGHT WE'LL GET AN EXPERT'S VIEW.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.


VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

YOU MAY BE MORE INTERESTED IN THE OLYMPICS, BUT IT'S HARD TO IGNORE THE OTHER MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR SPECTACLE PLAYING OUT ON TELEVISION AND THAT'S THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA.

VAL>> THREE REPUBLICANS ARE BATTLING FOR THE RIGHT TO TAKE ON GRAY DAVIS IN THE FALL. BUT AT LAST NIGHT'S GOP DEBATE, RICHARD RIORDAN BYPASSED THE PARTY BATTLE AND TOOK AIM AT THE GOVERNOR, BUT THE GOVERNOR HAD ALREADY MADE RIORDAN HIS TARGET. TONIGHT CINNY KENNARD PUTS THE CAMPAIGN RHETORIC TO THE TEST IN A LIFE AND TIMES "REALITY CHECK".

CINNY KENNARD>> IT'S GREAT TO BE PERCEIVED AS THE FRONT RUNNER, BUT RICHARD RIORDAN HAS BEEN PAYING A HUGE PRICE. HE'S BEEN TAKING A BEATING IN A RELENTLESS MEDIA CAMPAIGN PAID FOR BY GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> I SURPRISE MYSELF AT MY EMOTIONS ON THE ABORTION ISSUE BECAUSE I FEEL VERY -- I THINK IT'S MURDER....

ANNOUNCER>> HE WAS THE NATIONAL CHAIR WHO RAISED HALF A MILLION DOLLARS TO PUT RIGHT-WING JUDGE, ROBERT BORK, ON THE SUPREME COURT. RIORDAN. IS THIS A RECORD WE CAN TRUST?

CINNY KENNARD>> BUT AT LAST NIGHT'S DEBATE IN LONG BEACH, RIORDAN TURNED THE TABLES WITH A HARD-CHARGING ASSAULT AIMED SQUARELY AT THE GOVERNOR.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> GRAY, YOU'RE A DISGRACE. YOU GET AT YOUR OFFICE ABOUT 11:00 EVERY DAY, YOU DIAL FOR DOLLARS ALL DAY LONG, YOU'VE RAISED OVER A MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH SINCE YOU BECAME GOVERNOR.

CINNY KENNARD>> RIORDAN KEPT TO A SIMPLE STRATEGY: ACT LIKE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE AND PAY SCANT ATTENTION TO THE COMPETITION IN THE ROOM.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> THE MAIN SUBJECT IS HOW DO WE GET RID OF THIS DISGRACEFUL GOVERNOR, GRAY DAVIS?

CINNY KENNARD>> RIORDAN USED THE DEBATE TO TRY TO DIG OUT FROM UNDER HIS APPARENT FLIP-FLOPS ON ABORTION AND HE DID IT BY GIVING VOTERS SOMETHING ELSE TO THINK ABOUT, NAMELY THE BIG MONEY DAVIS HAS GOTTEN FROM ENRON.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> GRAY DAVIS, I THINK PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU DO FOR SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS WHEN THEY GIVE YOU MONEY. YOU KNOW YOU'RE KNOWN AS THE ENRON GOVERNOR BECAUSE YOU RECEIVED $119,000 FROM ENRON.

CINNY KENNARD>> ENRON IS ALSO THE MAIN THEME OF RIORDAN'S NEW TV ASSAULT ON DAVIS.

ANNOUNCER>> ENRON GAVE GRAY DAVIS NEARLY $120,000, MORE THAN ANY OTHER POLITICIAN IN AMERICA.

CINNY KENNARD>> FACT: DAVIS DID TAKE THE MONEY, BUT A HOST OF TEXAS REPUBLICANS GOT EVEN MORE. LEADING THAT LIST IS NONE OTHER THAN PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, WHO TOOK AT $312,000 FROM ENRON DURING THE TIME HE WAS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS. MEANWHILE, RIORDAN'S EFFORTS TO SADDLE DAVIS WITH ENRON GAVE THE FORMER MAYOR'S REPUBLICAN OPPONENTS AN OPENING TO CRITICIZE HIM. AT ISSUE? A MEETING RIORDAN HAD WITH ENRON CHAIRMAN, KEN LAY, DURING THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY CRISIS.

BILL JONES>> I THINK PART OF THIS ENERGY DEBACLE IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. IF GRAY DAVIS IS CONSIDERED TO BE, AS YOU STATED, THE ENRON GOVERNOR, THEN, BASED ON THESE MEETINGS THAT YOU'RE HAVING, MAYBE YOU WERE THE ENRON MAYOR.

BILL SIMON>> YOU KNOW, IT IS TRUE THAT DICK HAS BEEN INCONSISTENT ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT AND THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT LEADERSHIP AT THE END OF THE DAY.

CINNY KENNARD>> WHILE RIORDAN TRIES TO GAIN TRACTION WITH ENRON, THE OTHER REPUBLICANS TRY TO GAIN GROUND BY QUESTIONING HIS PARTY'S LOYALTY AND HIS PAST HISTORY OF GIVING MONEY TO DEMOCRATS, INCLUDING HIS WIFE'S DONATION TO GRAY DAVIS.

BILL JONES>> WHERE IS THE FUNDAMENTAL PHILOSOPHY? THAT'S THE QUESTION HERE. THE INCONSISTENCY CONTINUES TO BUILD AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT HAS THE WHOLE PARTY CALLING YOUR CANDIDACY INTO QUESTION. YOU HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT. YOU HAVE TO SAY WHAT YOU THINK AND THE PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT.

CINNY KENNARD>> SOME OF THE HARSHEST WORDS HAVE COME FROM A REPUBLICAN WHO'S NOT EVEN RUNNING. FORMER GOVERNOR, GEORGE DEUKMEJIAN, HAS ENDORSED JONES AND RARELY MISSES A CHANCE TO BASH RIORDAN.

GEORGE DEUKMEJIAN>> YEAR AFTER YEAR FOR TWENTY YEARS, HE HAS BEEN CONTRIBUTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO DEFEAT REPUBLICANS. I DON'T THINK THAT REPUBLICAN VOTERS ARE GOING TO WANT TO SUPPORT THAT TYPE OF A PERSON TO BE THE STANDARD-BEARER OF OUR PARTY.

CINNY KENNARD>> STILL, RIORDAN FIGHTS BACK, ARGUING OLD-STYLE REPUBLICAN POLITICS CANNOT WIN IN TODAY'S CALIFORNIA.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> AS MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES, I HAD EIGHT STRAIGHT BALANCED BUDGETS. WE CUT CRIME BY FIFTY PERCENT.

CINNY KENNARD>> FACT: CRIME DID GO DOWN SEVEN OF THE EIGHT YEARS RIORDAN WAS MAYOR, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN POLICE CHIEF, THERE WAS A 25 PERCENT JUMP IN MURDER CASES AND SERIOUS CRIMES DURING RIORDAN'S LAST YEAR IN OFFICE. CRITICS MAY CALL THESE INCONSISTENCIES, BUT RIORDAN CLAIMS HE'S THE ONLY REPUBLICAN WHO'S ELECTABLE AND, BASED ON THE WAY HE'S BEEN TARGETED BY GRAY DAVIS'S TELEVISION ADS, THE GOVERNOR APPARENTLY AGREES.

JESS>> CINNY KENNARD JOINS US NOW. YOU'VE LOOKED AT OTHER CAMPAIGNS LIKE THIS AND DONE REALITY CHECKS SUCH AS THIS. IS THIS WORSE THAN MOST?

CINNY KENNARD>> I WOULD SAY IT'S PARTICULARLY NASTY EARLY, A LOT EARLIER THAN WE THOUGHT, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE GRAY DAVIS HAS LAUNCHED A FULL-SCALE ATTACK AGAINST RICHARD RIORDAN FEARING THAT RIORDAN, OF COURSE, IS GOING TO EMERGE OUT OF THE MARCH 5 PRIMARY. THE QUESTION IS, OF COURSE, HE ISN'T -- EXCUSE ME, WHAT DAVID DID, HE ALSO PROVOKED RIORDAN'S REPUBLICAN CONTENDERS TO COME OUT PUNCHING. SO RIORDAN'S TAKING IT FROM THE LEFT AND HE'S TAKING IT FROM THE RIGHT.

VAL>> YES, EXACTLY. YOU KNOW WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, WHEN YOU POINT OUT SOMETHING THAT'S JUST FACTUALLY AN ERROR, THAT GOVERNOR DAVIS WAS NOT THE POLITICIAN ACROSS AMERICA WHO TOOK MORE MONEY FROM ENRON, THAT'S CLEARLY FALSE, WHAT DOES THE RIORDAN CAMPAIGN SAY WHEN -- WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS GOING ON IN THEIR MINDS WHEN THEY JUST --

JESS>> -- PARTICULARLY, THAT WAS POINTED OUT FAIRLY EARLY, WASN'T IT?

CINNY KENNARD>> ABSOLUTELY, AND THE REMARK THAT GRAY DAVIS HAS TAKEN MORE THAN ANY POLITICIAN IN AMERICA IS A VERY, VERY CAUTIOUS AND PROBABLY NOT A SMART IDEA, BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS STUDYING HOW MUCH ENRON HAS GIVEN TO CANDIDATES OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

VAL>> THEY CAN JUST SAY THINGS IN ADS THAT ARE WRONG AND NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

CINNY KENNARD>> WE POINTED OUT HERE, CERTAINLY, AND, OF COURSE, THE OPPOSITION IS NOW POINTING IT OUT THAT THESE THINGS ARE NOT TRUE. THE QUESTION --

JESS>> -- BUT THEY CONTINUE TO RUN THE AD.

VAL>> THEY DO.

CINNY KENNARD>> EXACTLY, THE AD DOES CONTINUE TO RUN. IN FACT, GRAY DAVIS HAS AT LEAST THREE ADS UP RIGHT NOW THAT QUESTION RIORDAN'S APPARENT FLIP-FLOPS ON THE DEATH PENALTY, ON CRIME AND ON ABORTION. AND GRAY DAVIS'S PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THAT THIS ASSAULT IS WORKING VERY WELL UP TO THIS POINT AND, IN FACT, THEY'LL TELL YOU THAT DAVIS IS AHEAD NOW OF RIORDAN IN THEIR NIGHTLY POLLING BY SEVEN PERCENT. HOWEVER, LET ME ADD QUICKLY THAT RIORDAN'S PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THAT MR. RIORDAN IS, IN FACT, AHEAD, WELL AHEAD, OF HIS REPUBLICAN CHALLENGERS AND HE IS ALSO SHOWING IN HIS OWN POLLS THAT HE'S AHEAD OF GRAY DAVIS.

JESS>> WE NEED A REALITY CHECK ON THE POLLS. (LAUGHTER)

CINNY KENNARD>> WE DO, WE ABSOLUTELY DO. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. BUT THERE'S A LONG TIME, OF COURSE, BEFORE THE PRIMARY IN POLITICAL TERMS AT LEAST BECAUSE, AS WE KNOW, OVERNIGHT IS A LIFETIME IN POLITICS AND THERE'S A LITTLE MORE THAN TWO WEEKS LEFT. SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHO BUYS THE MOST TV.

VAL>> YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS ACCUSED OF COVERING THE HORSE RACE AND WHO'S AHEAD AND WHO'S BEHIND AND SO FORTH, SO LET'S SET THAT ASIDE. IN TERMS OF ISSUES THAT WERE DEALT WITH IN THE DEBATE, WERE THERE ANY REALLY KEY ISSUES THAT YOU THINK WERE DEALT WITH SUBSTANTIVELY?

CINNY KENNARD>> YOU HEARD ABORTION TIME AND TIME AGAIN. IT WAS OFFERED BY THE PANEL. THOSE ON THE PANEL ASKED ABOUT ABORTION SEVERAL TIMES.

VAL>> BUT IT WAS ALL IN THE CONTEXT OF RIORDAN'S CONSISTENCY, NOT --

CINNY KENNARD>> -- EXACTLY, EXACTLY. AND ALSO THERE WAS THE ISSUE OF THE BUDGET. THERE WAS THE ISSUE OF ENERGY. WE DID HEAR MR. SIMON PLEDGE THAT HE WOULD RAISE NO NEW TAXES AND HE WOULD BALANCE THE BUDGET. WE ALSO HEARD MR. JONES OFFER THE SAME PLEDGE: NO NEW TAXES AND A BALANCED BUDGET. BUT OVERALL, THE ISSUES THAT CALIFORNIA VOTERS CARE ABOUT: EDUCATION, THE ROADS, TRANSPORTATION, HEALTHCARE, WE DIDN'T HEAR A LOT ABOUT THOSE ISSUES LAST NIGHT.

VAL>> IT WAS A LOT OF SNIPING.

JESS>> WIVES APPARENTLY ALSO CAME UP AMONG THE ISSUES. THAT WAS CONSIDERED NOT QUITE FAIR PLAY AND THEY STILL PLAYED THAT?

CINNY KENNARD>> THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THAT ANGERED MR. RIORDAN.

VAL>> TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THAT IN CASE THEY DIDN'T --

CINNY KENNARD>> -- HE, IN FACT, SHOT BACK VERY QUICKLY AT MR. JONES AND CALLED HIM PATHETIC FOR MAKING AN ACCUSATION ABOUT MRS. DALEY RIORDAN GIVING MONEY TO GRAY DAVIS --

JESS>> -- SHE IS A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT?

CINNY KENNARD>> EXACTLY, AND THERE WAS AN ANGRY EXCHANGE THERE.

VAL>> MORE TO COME, I'M AFRAID. CINNY KENNARD, WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE AROUND. WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR NEXT "REALITY CHECK". THANK YOU.

CINNY KENNARD>> GREAT.

VAL>> TOMORROW, DRUG USE HAS LEVELED OFF AMONG TEENAGERS WITH ONE DRAMATIC EXCEPTION: ECSTASY. IT'S THE PARTY DRUG KIDS THINK IS HARMLESS, BUT THERE IS TRAGIC EVIDENCE OF ITS DANGERS.

>> MANY BELIEVE ECSTASY, OR "E", IS THE PERFECT HIGH THAT IS PERFECTLY SAFE. IT'S WHAT JIMMY LYONS THOUGHT WHEN HE DECIDED TO TRY IT FOR THE FIRST TIME.

>> THE POLICE OFFICER SAID HE HAD VERY BAD NEWS FOR ME AND THEN HE TOLD ME MY SON PASSED AWAY AT 5:00 IN THE MORNING.

JESS>> YOU MAY HAVE SEEN A LARGE PHOTO IN THIS MORNING'S LOS ANGELES TIMES. IT SHOWED THE REVEREND CECIL MURRAY OF FIRST A.M.E. CHURCH AND BISHOP CHARLES BLAKE OF WEST ANGELES CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST TEARING UP A MOCK CHECK. THE MINISTERS SAID IT SYMBOLIZED THEIR REJECTION OF THE $25,000 GRANTS MAYOR JAMES HAHN HAD GIVEN TO BOTH CHURCHES.

VAL>> THE MINISTERS ARE NOW REJECTING THAT MONEY, CLAIMING IT WAS AN ATTEMPT TO BUY THEIR SILENCE ON HAHN'S DECISION NOT TO SUPPORT POLICE CHIEF, BERNARD PARKS, FOR A SECOND TERM.

JESS>> OUR POLITICAL ANALYST, KERMAN MADDOX, JOINS US NOW ALONG WITH THE REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON OF THE FIRST A.M.E. CHURCH, ONE OF THE CHURCHES THAT RECEIVED A CHECK FROM MAYOR HAHN AND LATER REFUSED TO KEEP THE MONEY. WE ALSO INVITED MAYOR HAHN, BUT HE DECLINED, CITING A SCHEDULING CONFLICT.

KERMAN, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THIS?

KERMAN>> WELL, I GOT TO TELL YOU, IT'S OBVIOUSLY A TREMENDOUS UPROAR IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A TREMENDOUS SENSE OF BETRAYAL IN THAT COMMUNITY. MOST OF THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS BELIEVE THEY HAD A COMMITMENT FROM MAYOR HAHN WHEN HE RAN FOR MAYOR THAT HE WOULD, IN FACT, KEEP ON CHIEF OF POLICE, BERNARD PARKS. OBVIOUSLY, MAYOR HAHN CHOSE NOT TO DO THAT. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING. I'VE NEVER SEEN BLACK CHURCHES OR ANY OTHER CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION GIVE MONEY BACK. AND THE FACT THAT THEY GAVE IT BACK AND THEY DID IT IN SUCH A DEMONSTRATIVE WAY, I THINK, IS AN INDICATION OF THE DEPTH OF THE FRUSTRATION AND ANGER AND RAGE IN THAT COMMUNITY DIRECTED TOWARDS MAYOR HAHN.

VAL>> REVEREND JACKSON, THAT'S THE CONTEXT IN WHICH IT HAPPENED. DO YOU REALLY FEEL THAT THIS IS HUSH MONEY ON THE PART OF MAYOR HAHN?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> I WOULD GO THIS FAR TO SAY THAT THE TIMING WAS SUSPICIOUSLY COINCIDENTAL. AS FAR AS HUSH MONEY, YES, WE DO BELIEVE THAT THE MAYOR KNEW, UPON GIVING US THESE GIFTS, THAT WHAT HE HAD IN THE BACK OF HIS MIND WAS DOWN THE ROAD.

VAL>> AND HE GAVE THEM, I THINK, A FEW WEEKS BEFORE HE MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO SUPPORT PARKS, SO IT WAS A FEW WEEK'S DIFFERENCE.

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> THE FIRST A.M.E. CHURCH, HE GAVE US A MOCK CHECK ON DECEMBER 8 DURING ONE OF OUR FEEDINGS. THE CHECK THAT WENT TO WEST ANGELES CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST CAME TO THEM SOMETIME IN JANUARY.

VAL>> AND HE ANNOUNCED HIS POSITION ON CHIEF PARKS ON FEBRUARY 12, A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, I THINK.

JESS>> $25,000 IS NOT AN INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT, BUT SURELY NOT ENOUGH TO BUY OFF CHURCHES.

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> $25,000 WILL FEED A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT WILL CLOTHE A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT WILL EDUCATE MANY CHILDREN, BUT --

JESS>> -- MORE THE REASON FOR KEEPING IT, WOULDN'T YOU THINK?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> ALL THE MORE REASON TO KEEP IT, BUT THEN AGAIN, NOTHING CAN PAY FOR THE STABILITY AND WE MUST KEEP A SQUEAKY CLEAN AUDIT TRAIL WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY AND WE MUST BE ABOVE QUESTIONING.

VAL>> NOW, OF COURSE, WE'D LOVED TO HAVE HAD THE MAYOR HERE, BUT HE COULDN'T COME, SO HERE WE'RE GOING TO QUOTE A BIT. HERE IS A PART OF WHAT THE MAYOR SAID AT A NEWS CONFERENCE YESTERDAY. HE SAID, "I THINK IT'S JUST WRONG TO CHARACTERIZE THESE CHECKS AS HAVING ANY CONNECTION TO ANY OTHER ISSUES. I'M OFFENDED THAT THE MINISTERS WOULD EVEN THINK THAT THAT'S THE WAY I OPERATE. THEY'VE KNOWN ME FOR TWENTY YEARS."

KERMAN>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT COMMENT, REVEREND JACKSON? THE MAYOR SAYS HE'S OFFENDED AT WHAT YOU GUYS DID.

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> WE WERE OFFENDED AT WHAT HE DID TO THE COMMUNITY. HE PROMISED US THAT HE WOULD KEEP CHIEF BERNARD PARKS ON AS CHIEF. HE PROMISED BISHOP BLAKE AND HIS CHURCH AND BISHOP BLAKE MADE A STATEMENT YESTERDAY THAT HE WOULD ALSO EXTEND TO HIM A SECOND TERM.

JESS>> WHEN DID HE MAKE THESE STATEMENTS? DO YOU KNOW?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> WITH BISHOP BLAKE, HE STATED IT HAD TO BE AROUND THE SAME TIME THAT HE GAVE HIM THE CHECK. I'LL TAKE THAT BACK. IT WAS DURING THE ELECTION PERIOD.

JESS>> SO THE MAYOR'S GONE BACK ON HIS WORD IN YOUR JUDGMENT?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> YES, HE HAS GONE BACK ON HIS WORD.

VAL>> BECAUSE HE SAYS THAT HE HAD NOT DECIDED ABOUT HIS POSITION ON PARKS AT THE TIME THAT HE WAS RUNNING, SO HOW COULD HE HAVE PROMISED?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> HE COMMITTED TO THE COMMUNITY THAT HE WOULD -- FOR THAT FACT, HE WAS THE ONLY CANDIDATE THAT HAD NOT OPENLY STATED THAT THEY WOULD NOT KEEP CHIEF BERNARD PARKS ONBOARD.

JESS>> BUT THIS WAS DURING THE CAMPAIGN. THAT WAS A BIG ISSUE.

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

KERMAN>> YEAH, IF YOU REMEMBER, DURING THE CAMPAIGN FOR MAYOR, ESPECIALLY IN THE PRIMARY, YOU REMEMBER MOST OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES, WHEN YOU HAD THIS LARGE LIST OF CANDIDATES, WERE VERY CRITICAL OF CHIEF OF POLICE PARKS AND THEY SAID EMPHATICALLY, IF THEY WERE ELECTED MAYOR, CHIEF PARKS WOULD NOT GET ANOTHER FIVE-YEAR EXTENSION. MAYOR HAHN WAS NEVER THAT EMPHATIC AND GAVE THE IMPRESSION --

JESS>> -- BUT HE DIDN'T SAY THAT HE WOULD LEAVE HIM ON.

KERMAN>> NO, BUT I THINK WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS PRIVATE MEETINGS THAT WERE HELD WITH THE MAYOR AND THE LEADERSHIP. AND WHAT I'M HEARING IS THE LEADERSHIP FEELS AS THOUGH THEY HAD A DEFINITIVE COMMITMENT IN PRIVATE MEETINGS WITH MAYOR HAHN. YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD TO THAT.

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> THAT IS FOR SURE. WE HAD A COMMITMENT FROM THE MAYOR.

JESS>> MADE PRIVATELY TO CLERGYMEN?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> MADE PRIVATELY TO CLERGYMEN, CORRECT.

VAL>> I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT NOT ALL THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN MINISTERS INVOLVED IN THIS FEEL THE WAY YOU FEEL. THE THIRD ONE, THE REVEREND WILLIAM EPPS, WHO WE ACTUALLY INVITED HERE BUT HE DIDN'T MAKE IT AS WELL, FROM SECOND BAPTIST CHURCH, SAID HE'S KEEPING THE MONEY. HE DOES NOT FEEL THAT IT'S HUSH MONEY OF ANY KIND. HE SAYS, "ALL OF US WHO HAVE COMMUNITY PROGRAMS HAVE BENEFITED FROM THESE GRANTS IN THE PAST. I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH TAKING THESE MONIES. I DON'T THINK THE MAYOR WAS TRYING TO BUY ME."

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> WE FEEL THAT, YES, WE RUN PROGRAMS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND WE'RE COVERED BY A 501(C)(3). WE SOLICIT FUNDS TO SUPPORT OUR PROGRAMS. WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT WE CALL UNSOLICITED FUNDS, THEN --

VAL>> -- WHICH THIS WAS.

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> EXACTLY.

KERMAN>> WERE THERE ANY STRINGS AT ALL ATTACHED TO THESE FUNDS, THOUGH, REVEREND JACKSON, THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> YES, BY ALL MEANS. FIRST, THE PROMISE OF $25,000 AND THEN THE WEEK FOLLOWING CAME THE PAPERWORK, MORE OR LESS SO WE COULD APPLY THE FUNDS PROPERLY AND THEY COULD RECORD HOW WE RECEIVED THE FUNDS AND HOW WE'D BE USING THE FUNDS.

KERMAN>> NOW, JESS MAKES A GOOD POINT, REVEREND. FIRST A.M.E. IS VERY INVOLVED IN THE COMMUNITY. YOU PROVIDE A VARIETY OF SERVICES TO A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DOWN ON THEIR LUCK. DOES IT MAKE SENSE NOT TO GIVE THE MONEY, OR THE SYMBOLISM OF GIVING THE MONEY BACK IS THAT IMPORTANT? OR RATHER, SHOULDN'T YOU HAVE KEPT THE MONEY?

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> ACTUALLY, TWO-FOLD. ONE, IT IS A SYMBOLISM TO THE MAYOR AND ALSO TO THE COMMUNITY. TO THE MAYOR, THAT WE WILL NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, BE BOUGHT OFF. TWO, TO THE COMMUNITY SO THE COMMUNITY WILL KNOW THE EXACT SAME THING.

VAL>> REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON FROM FIRST A.M.E. CHURCH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING AND EXPRESSING YOUR OPINION. KERMAN, ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.

KERMAN>> THANK YOU, VAL. THANK YOU, JESS.

REVEREND LEONARD JACKSON>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> HERE'S A SAMPLE OF THE MESSAGES THAT HAVE FILLED THE LIFE AND TIMES MAILBOX THIS WEEK. ENRON AND NAFTA WERE TOPICS OF SPECIAL INTEREST. ONE VIEWER WROTE ABOUT THE MILLION DOLLAR TAB TAXPAYERS MAY OWE A CANADIAN COMPANY BECAUSE OF THE STATE'S BAN ON MTBE. IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF AN OBSCURE CLAUSE IN THE NORTH AMERICAN FREE TRADE AGREEMENT. SHE SAYS:

"BETWEEN MTBE AND ENRON, I'M BEGINNING TO THINK IT'S BEEN OPEN SEASON ON CALIFORNIANS THIS YEAR. WE'RE TIRED OF BEING POISONED AND LOOTED BY CORPORATIONS."

VAL>> ANOTHER VIEWER CAME UP WITH A SCENARIO THAT MIGHT MAKE THE CANADIAN COMPANY, METHANEX, FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE PAYOUT. SHE WRITES:

"I'M SURPRISED THAT A LAW OFFICE HASN'T FOUND A NUMBER OF CALIFORNIANS RECENTLY DIAGNOSED WITH CANCER SO THAT THEY COULD FILE SUIT AGAINST METHANEX FOR A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS EACH."

JESS>> AND GOING BACK TO THE TOPIC OF ENRON, QUITE A FEW VIEWERS ENJOYED PATT MORRISON'S COMMENTARY IN VERSE ABOUT CEO, KENNETH LAY'S, APPEARANCE BEFORE CONGRESS. ONE WRITER APPLAUDED PATT'S:

"GUTSY, HAT-BALANCING, POETIC EFFORT THAT PUT ENRON IN A PERSPECTIVE THAT'S BEEN PARTIALLY OR INTELLECTUALLY MISSED, AT LEAST BY ME, UNTIL NOW."

JESS>> NOW HERE'S HOW YOU CAN REACH LIFE AND TIMES:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

VAL>> THE BIG SCANDAL OF THE DAY IS, OF COURSE, ENRON, BUT IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME AN AMERICAN BUSINESS HAS GOTTEN TANGLED UP IN A COMPLICATED WEB OF HIGH-FINANCE AND INFLUENCE-PEDDLING.

JESS>> AND IN THE 20'S, THE SCANDAL WAS TEAPOT DOME AND THE CONTROVERSY STRETCHED ALL THE WAY FROM CALIFORNIA TO WASHINGTON. BACK THEN, THE BUSINESS IN TROUBLE WAS BIG OIL AND THE PROBLEMS MANAGED TO SPILL OVER ONTO ONE OF THE RICHEST MEN OF THE TIMES, OIL TYCOON EDWARD DOHENEY. TODAY SOME HAVE NOTICED A PARALLEL BETWEEN DOHENEY'S PREDICAMENT AND THE ONE NOW FACING FORMER ENRON CHAIRMAN, KENNETH LAY. THE QUESTION IS, WHICH WAS THE BIGGER SCANDAL? TEAPOT DOME OR ENRON?

VAL>> JOINING US NOW IS MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS. SHE IS THE AUTHOR OF "DARK SIDE OF FORTUNE", A LOOK AT EDWARD DOHENEY AND THE TEAPOT DOME. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THE TEAPOT DOME (LAUGHTER), COULD YOU BRIEFLY SUMMARIZE?

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> WELL, THE TEAPOT DOME SCANDAL IS THE BIG DADDY OF ALL POLITICAL SCANDALS. IT ERUPTED ON THE FRONT PAGES ALL AROUND THE WORLD IN 1924. IT LASTED TEN LONG YEARS. CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LITIGATION, AND IT INVOLVED THE INDICTMENT OF A CABINET SECRETARY, THE U.S. SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR, FOR BRIBERY. SO IT WAS THE BIGGEST OF ALL OF OUR POLITICAL SCANDALS.

VAL>> AND BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED WAS, SOME OIL TYCOONS BRIBED THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR WHO THEN BASICALLY ALLOWED THEM TO LEASE THE LAND?

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THE CABINET OFFICIAL WAS CHARGED WITH BRIBERY CONSPIRACY IN THE VALUABLE LEASEHOLDS OF FEDERAL NAVAL OIL RESERVES IN TEAPOT DOME, WYOMING AND ELK HILLS, CALIFORNIA. EDWARD DOHENEY WAS, OF COURSE, ONE OF THE GREAT OILMEN OF AMERICA. ABOUT THE SAME TIME THAT THESE VALUABLE LEASEHOLDS WERE OBTAINED BY HIM, ALBERT FALL'S FINANCIAL PERSONAL FORTUNES HAD IMPROVED. A RESOURCEFUL JOURNALIST, A PRO CONSERVATION JOURNALIST, UNCOVERED THE FACT THAT ALBERT FALL HAD RECEIVED THE --

VAL>> -- THE INTERIOR SECRETARY?

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THAT'S RIGHT. ALBERT FALL, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR, RECEIVED THESE PAYMENTS BY EDWARD DOHENEY, THE GREAT OILMAN, AND HARRY SINCLAIR OF SINCLAIR OIL. IT ERUPTED, CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS, SENSATIONAL TESTIMONY, AND THE REFUSAL TO TESTIFY OF ALBERT FALL, THE SECRETARY CABINET OFFICIAL, --

VAL>> -- SOUNDS FAMILIAR.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> -- CREATED THE FURY OF SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN, MUCH LIKE WE SAW YESTERDAY WHO WERE OUTRAGED.

VAL>> IS THIS SECRETARY FALL?

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S A GREAT SHOT OF HIM BEFORE HIS HEARTACHES WITH THE TEAPOT DOME. HE ACTUALLY WAS CONVICTED AND WENT TO JAIL FOR BRIBERY AND CONSPIRACY.

JESS>> AND PRESIDENT HARDING DIED IN OFFICE, DIDN'T HE?

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THAT'S RIGHT. HE DIED JUST AT THE BEGINNINGS OF THE SCANDAL AND PRESIDENT CALVIN COOLIDGE FOUND HIMSELF EMBROILED IN THIS MESS UNDER IMMENSE PRESSURE BY CONGRESS AND SENATE TO CREATE A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR AND IT WAS THE FIRST USE OF THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR. INTENSE INVESTIGATION, LEGAL AND CIVIL LITIGATION FOLLOWED. THE AMAZING THING IS THAT THE CASE RESULTED IN A MOST BIZARRE TWIST IN U.S. LEGAL HISTORY WHERE ALBERT FALL WAS CONVICTED OF RECEIVING A BRIBE THAT EDWARD DOHENEY WAS FULLY ACQUITTED OF DELIVERING.
VAL>> OH, HOW INTERESTING.

JESS>> AND THEY WERE TALKING -- EVEN IN DOLLARS FROM THOSE DAYS, THEY WERE STILL TALKING CONSIDERABLE AMOUNTS OF MONEY.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> YES. THE BRIBE IN QUESTION, OR A "LOAN", AFTER DOHENEY'S ACQUITTAL, THIS WAS THE DEFENSE, WAS $100,000 THAT WAS DELIVERED BY DOHENEY'S SON IN A BLACK SATCHEL WRAPPED IN RUBBER BANDS. UNFORTUNATELY FOR DOHENEY IN HIS CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY, HE USED THE VERY POOR JUDGMENT OF THE LINE THAT $100,000 TO HIM "WAS A MERE BAGATELLE, TO AN ORDINARY MAN $10 OR $20." THIS WAS PRINTED AND REPRINTED AND PUBLISHED AND HE NEVER OVERCAME THAT STATEMENT MADE IN THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS.

VAL>> THERE ARE SO MANY PARALLELS. OBVIOUSLY IT DEALS WITH ENERGY, PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS, FAVORS, CONTRIBUTIONS AND EVEN THIS LAST PART, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS, THE EXECUTIVES OF ENRON FEATHERING THEIR OWN NESTS AND THE RANK AND FILE EMPLOYEES LOSING THEIR SAVINGS. I MEAN, WHAT OTHER PARALLELS IS THERE --

JESS>> -- WELL, I'M NOT SURE IT'S A PARALLEL, BUT I WAS INTERESTED IN THE FACT THAT ONE OF THE BRIBES GIVEN WAS A HERD OF CATTLE (LAUGHTER) FOR THE RECEIVER'S RANCH.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S RIGHT. HARRY SINCLAIR, IN FACT, HANDED OVER ALL SORTS OF WONDERFUL GIFTS LIKE CATTLE THAT EVENTUALLY BOTH HARRY SINCLAIR AND FALL WERE CONVICTED OF THE BRIBERY. IT ALSO HAD A GREAT WHISTLE-BLOWER, THIS RESOURCEFUL PRO CONSERVATION JOURNALIST WHO KIND OF SNIFFED OUT THE STORY AND, THROUGH CLOAK AND DAGGER INVESTIGATION, UNCOVERED IT ALL TO THE DELIGHT OF THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS AND AN AMERICAN PUBLIC WHO JUST DEVOURED THE SENSATIONAL DETAILS. EVERY MINUTE ASPECT OF THE STORY WAS A TREMENDOUS FASCINATION OF THESE WEALTHY OILMEN TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

VAL>> SO A LOT OF PARALLELS TO ENRON TODAY. DID ANY OIL TYCOONS -- YOU KNOW, THE EQUIVALENT OF KEN LAY -- DID ANY OF THEM END UP GOING TO JAIL OR JUST THE SECRETARY?

JESS>> NOT DOHENEY.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> EDWARD DOHENEY DID NOT GO TO JAIL. HARRY SINCLAIR DID, IN FACT, GO TO JAIL. AND EDWARD DOHENEY HIRED THE FIRST DREAM TEAM FOR HIS DEFENSE. HENRY O'MELVENY OF O'MELVENY AND MYERS, THE GREAT LAW FIRM OF LOS ANGELES, WAS THE MAN WHO GOT DOHENEY ACQUITTED, SO IT'S A GREAT STORY TOO. IT WAS AMERICA'S FINEST LEGAL TALENT. AND LIKE OUR CURRENT ENRON DEBACLE, I'M SURE AMERICA'S LEGAL TALENT WILL BE BROUGHT INTO THE FRAY HERE IN THE DEFENSE OF THE NEW DEFENDANTS IN THE NEW GIANT AMERICAN POLITICAL SCANDAL.

JESS>> AND IT DOESN'T CAUSE YOU PAIN TO KNOW THAT, BECAUSE OF THE ENRON SCANDAL, THERE IS RENEWED INTEREST IN YOUR BOOK.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THAT'S RIGHT (LAUGHTER. NICE TO KNOW WHERE WE'VE BEEN, WITH TEAPOT DOME, THAT'S FOR SURE.

VAL>> NOW THE TEAPOT DOME SCANDAL STRETCHED OVER TEN YEARS?

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> DO YOU THINK ENRON'S GOING TO DO THAT? I HATE TO THINK.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> I PREDICT IT WILL. THE ENORMOUS LITIGATION WAS SO COMPLEX, IT WAS REALLY OVER THE HEADS OF MOST FOLKS. BOTH LAY PEOPLE AND LEGAL PEOPLE ARE STILL DEBATING ASPECTS OF IT. A TEN-YEAR NIGHTMARE, THE GREATEST POLITICAL SCANDAL IN OUR HISTORY.

JESS>> THANK YOU, MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS, FOR BEING WITH US TONIGHT.

MARGARET LESLIE DAVIS>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> ONCE AGAIN, HER BOOK IS CALLED "DARK SIDE OF FORTUNE".

VAL>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING. REMEMBER, YOU CAN CHECK OUT RECENT PROGRAMS, THE AUDIO OF RECENT PROGRAMS, ON OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG. YOU CAN ALSO FIND TRANSCRIPTS THERE OF FREE PROGRAMS GOING BACK MANY YEARS. IT'S A GREAT RESOURCE, SO USE IT, PLEASE.

JESS>> AND NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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