2/18/02

LC020218

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> YOU CAN BE OLDER AND WISER AND STILL BECOME A TARGET, SO HOW CAN SENIORS AVOID GETTING TAKEN?

GAY YEE>> THERE ARE SO MANY CHEATS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF SO MANY SENIORS. LEE DICKERSON WAS VICTIMIZED.

LEE DICKERSON>> I HAVE LEARNED A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HUMAN NATURE AND TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PROTECTIVE OF MYSELF.

VAL>> TEACHING HOSPITALS ARE CONSIDERED TO BE THE BEST, BUT NOW EVEN THEY ARE FEELING THE STRAIN OF FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. ARE WE ASKING THEM TO DO TOO MUCH?

>> ANYBODY WHO SAYS THAT THERE'S NOT A CRISIS I'D HAVE TO ASK WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION TODAY? WE WEREN'T HAVING IT TEN YEARS AGO.

JESS>> THEY ARE SEEKING ENORMOUS POWER, BUT HOW MUCH DO YOU REALLY KNOW ABOUT THE CANDIDATES IN VARIOUS JUDICIAL RACES? TONIGHT SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS, TELLS US IT IS SOMETIMES A CASE OF VOTER BEWARE.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.


VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

TONIGHT A LOOK AT A GROUP OF CRIME VICTIMS WHO OFTEN DON'T MAKE THE HEADLINES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ELDERLY. MORE AND MORE, THEY ARE TARGETS OF SCAMS AND SOMETIMES EVEN PHYSICAL ATTACKS AND IT'S LARGELY BECAUSE SO MANY SENIORS ARE TRUSTING. THEY ALSO HAVE MONEY TO SPEND.

VAL>> IN A MOMENT, WE'LL FIND OUT HOW OLDER PEOPLE CAN PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST FRAUD, BUT FIRST GAY YEE HAS THE STORY OF ONE MAN IN TORRANCE WHO LEARNED ABOUT FRAUD THE HARD WAY.

GAY>> IT ALL STARTED WITH THIS FANCY WHIRLPOOL BATHTUB AND A CALL TO A PLUMBER TO INSTALL IT.

LEE DICKERSON>> AND HE JUST WENT UNDER AND SAID THAT IT WAS LEAKING. HE CAME OUT OF HERE WITH A HANDFUL OF TOILET PAPER WET LIKE IT CAME OUT OF THE TOILET AND HE SAYS, "YOU GOT A BAD LEAK UNDER HERE." (LAUGHTER)

GAY>> LEE DICKERSON CHUCKLES NOW, BUT HE WASN'T LAUGHING A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. HE FOUND THE UNLICENSED PLUMBER THROUGH THIS PENNYSAVER AD TOUTING CHEAP RATES. BUT INSTEAD OF SAVING MONEY, HE WAS CONNED INTO REPLACING HALF THE SEWER LINE THAT RAN THROUGH HIS FRONT YARD ONLY TO DISCOVER LATER IT WAS MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN.

LEE DICKERSON>> I DISCOVERED MYSELF BY GOING UNDER THE HOUSE THAT THERE HAD BEEN NO LEAK UNDER THERE. IT WAS PHONY MATERIAL THAT HE PULLED OUT AND MY SEWER LINE WAS NOT LEAKING AND HE REPLACED PART OF IT THAT WAS IN PERFECTLY GOOD SHAPE, PROBABLY IN BETTER SHAPE THAN AFTER HE REPLACED IT.

GAY>> BY THEN, DICKERSON WAS OUT $4,250, HIS BATHTUB STILL HADN'T BEEN INSTALLED AND THE PLUMBER WAS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.

LEE DICKERSON>> AND HE NEVER CAME BACK AFTER THAT. I STARTED TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM AND I FOUND THAT THE HOME ADDRESS HE GAVE ME WAS NOT CORRECT. THERE WAS NO SUCH NUMBER. HE WOULD NOT RETURN TELEPHONE CALLS AND THERE WAS NO WAY I COULD GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM TO DO THE REST OF THE WORK.

GAY>> DICKERSON IS ONE OF OVER A DOZEN PEOPLE IN TORRANCE BILKED OUT OF MORE THAN $60,000 IN UNNECESSARY REPAIRS. THE CON ARTIST WAS EVENTUALLY ARRESTED AND SENTENCE TO A YEAR IN COUNTY JAIL.

TIM STARK>> IT'S VERY WIDESPREAD.

GAY>> TORRANCE POLICE DETECTIVE, TIM STARK, WORKS IN THE DEPARTMENT'S FRAUD AND ELDERLY ABUSE DETAIL.

TIM STARK>> SINCE I'VE BEEN IN THIS DETECTIVE BUREAU FOR TWO YEARS, THE CASELOAD I HAVE ON ELDER ABUSE HAS DOUBLED.

GAY>> AMONG THE SCHEMES THEY'VE UNCOVERED, THE SO-CALLED "NEPHEW" SCAM.

TIM STARK>> WE HAD SOMEBODY CALLING UP AND SAYING HE WAS A FAMILY RELATIVE. HE'D BAIT THE SENIOR PERSON INTO THROWING OUT A NAME, SAYING, YOU KNOW, IT'S YOUR FAVORITE NEPHEW. THEY'D GIVE THE NAME AND HE'D TAKE OFF AND RUN WITH IT. BEFORE HE WAS DONE, HE'D CONVINCE THEM THAT HE WAS STRANDED AT THE BURBANK AIRPORT AND LOST HIS WALLET AND, YOU KNOW, NEEDED $2,000 TO CONTINUE HIS STAY HERE FOR HIS TRAINING CLASS AND HE'D SEND SOMEBODY OVER TO PICK UP THE MONEY.

GAY>> THREE TO FIVE MILLION OLDER AMERICANS ARE CONNED IN THIS WAY EVERY YEAR. WHY? WELL, THE EXPERTS SAY THE CROOKS ARE FOLLOWING THE MONEY. THE AVERAGE NET WORTH OF A SENIOR HOUSEHOLD IS TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. THERE ARE SO MANY CHEATS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF SO MANY SENIORS THAT A GROUP CALLED THE KEEPSAFE COALITION HAS BEEN FORMED TO HELP PROTECT THE ELDERLY. DETECTIVE STARK IS PART OF THE ORGANIZATION'S LAW ENFORCEMENT TASKFORCE.

TIM STARK>> THE THING THAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THE SENIOR PEOPLE IS THEY GREW UP IN A TIME ERA WHERE THEY'RE TRUSTING AND THEY TAKE EVERYTHING AT FACE VALUE.

LEE DICKERSON>> YES, I TEND TO WANT TO TRUST PEOPLE. I HAVE DONE THAT ALL MY LIFE. IN FACT, ALMOST ALL OF THE PEOPLE I'VE RUN INTO HAVE BEEN TRUSTWORTHY. I'D PREFER TO GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT UNTIL I AM CONVINCED THEY ARE NOT WORTH TRUSTING.

GAY>> EIGHTY-YEAR-OLD DICKERSON ADMITS HE WOULD DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY TODAY.

LEE DICKERSON>> WELL, I'M HOPING THAT I GET SOMETHING BACK OUT OF IT. I HAVE LEARNED A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HUMAN NATURE AND TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PROTECTIVE OF MYSELF, BUT I STILL HAVE A TENDENCY TO TRUST PEOPLE UNLESS I SEE SOMETHING SUSPICIOUS. BUT I'M NOT GOING TO PAY A LOT OF MONEY UP FRONT.

GAY>> LIVING PROOF THAT THE TERM "OLDER AND WISER" HAS TAKEN ON NEW IMPORTANCE. IN TORRANCE, GAY YEE FOR LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS JANE HAAS. SHE'S A COLUMNIST FOR THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER AND AN ADVOCATE FOR SENIORS. WE HEARD IN THAT REPORT THAT IT'S WIDESPREAD. HOW WIDESPREAD?

JANE HAAS>> OH, ABOUT TEN PERCENT OF THE SENIOR POPULATION IS A VICTIM IN SOME WAY OF ELDER ABUSE AND FIDUCIARY ABUSE IS THE MOST COMMON. IN FACT, FAMILY MEMBERS STEAL MORE FROM ELDERS THAN OUTSIDERS. CAREGIVERS, OLDER CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, ADULT CHILDREN. ONE OF THE WORST CASES I EVER HEARD OF WAS IN HUNTINGTON BEACH WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR FATHER IN THIS ROOM, HE WAS IN A BED THAT WAS -- WELL, HE WAS DEHYDRATED, MALNUTRITIONED. HE DIED IN THE BED. HE WAS COVERED WITH URINE AND FECES AND THEY WERE LIVING OFF HIS SOCIAL SECURITY. IT'S A VERY, VERY COMMON PRACTICE, THE FIDUCIARY ABUSE. PHYSICAL ABUSE IS ONLY ABOUT 25 PERCENT OF THE ABUSE.

VAL>> NOW, DO THESE SCAMS SOUND FAMILIAR? THE REPAIRMAN WHO WANTS A LOT OF MONEY UP FRONT? PEOPLE CALLING AND ASKING FOR MONEY OVER THE PHONE?

JANE HAAS>> YES, IT'S VERY FAMILIAR. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS AN INSURANCE SCAM WHERE THEY WILL CALL UP AND SAY "YOU'VE GOT A CD" -- THEY FIND OUT THAT PEOPLE HAVE CD'S -- "WELL, IT'S ONLY MAKING A SMALL PERCENTAGE. YOU KNOW, IF YOU PUT ALL YOUR MONEY AND BUNDLED IT TOGETHER AND BOUGHT AN ANNUITY, YOU'D BE MUCH BETTER OFF" AND IT SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD.

PRETTY SOON, THEY LET THESE PEOPLE IN THEIR HOUSE. THEY OFFER TO TAKE THEM TO THE BANK TO HELP THEM WITHDRAW THEIR MONEY AND WHAT THEY DON'T REALIZE IS THAT THEY'RE PAYING A FEE FOR THE ANNUITY, THEY'RE NOT PAYING A FEE FOR THE CD. IN FACT, THEY MAY BE PENALIZED FOR EARLY WITHDRAWAL. THESE INSURANCE AGENTS ARE ACTING IMPROPERLY AND THEY CAN LOSE THEIR LICENSE IF THEY'RE REPORTED.

JESS>> NOW, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SENIORS WHO ARE NECESSARILY BEFUDDLED AND SHOULD BE EASY TARGETS.

JANE HAAS>> WELL, ACTUALLY, MOST OF THESE PEOPLE ARE BEFUDDLED OR LONELY. AND EARLY DEMENTIA TO MIDDLE DEMENTIA, THEY'RE THE NUMBER ONE VICTIMS OF FIDUCIARY ABUSE.

JESS>> THE MAN WE SAW IN GAY YEE'S FILM WAS SHARP. (LAUGHTER)

JANE HAAS>> NO, HE IS NOT. BUT HE WAS NOT REALLY SCAMMED FOR THAT MUCH. THERE WAS A CASE IN ORANGE COUNTY WHERE THE MAN PLED GUILTY IN OCTOBER AND HE HAD STOLEN TWO MILLION DOLLARS OVER FIFTEEN YEARS. HE ALSO -- NO CONDEMNATION OF THE INDUSTRY -- WAS A PLUMBER (LAUGHTER), BUT HE WAS ABLE TO DO THIS BECAUSE HE GOT TO KNOW HIS CUSTOMERS. HE WORKED FOR A REPUTABLE FIRM AND HE WOULD SAY, "YOU KNOW, MY MOTHER LEFT ME ALL THIS MONEY, BUT I CAN'T GET IT BECAUSE I HAVE TO PAY THE TAXES, BUT IF YOU COULD LOAN ME THE MONEY FOR THE TAXES, YOU KNOW, I WOULD GET IT" OR "I'M READY TO GO INTO BUSINESS FOR MYSELF" AND, YOU KNOW, THIS TYPE OF THING. WHAT HE DID IS TAKE THE MONEY TO THE RACETRACK.

VAL>> SO WHAT CAN SENIORS DO? WHEN THEY'RE APPROACHED BY SOMEONE AND WHEN THEY'RE A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS OR IF YOU'RE A SON OR A DAUGHTER AND YOUR PARENT MIGHT HAVE A CASE OF DEMENTIA, HOW CAN SENIORS PROTECT THEMSELVES?

JANE HAAS>> WELL, ALL RIGHT, YOU'VE ASKED TWO QUESTIONS THERE. FIRST OF ALL, THE SENIORS SHOULD NEVER, EVER WRITE A CHECK TO SOMEONE LIKE THIS PLUMBER --

JESS>> -- DON'T PAY IN ADVANCE.

JANE HAAS>> DON'T PAY IN ADVANCE, DON'T EVER WRITE A CHECK TO AN INSURANCE AGENT. MAKE SURE YOU WRITE IT TO A FIRM. DON'T EVER LET ANYONE TAKE YOU TO THE BANK, YOU KNOW? AND, IN FACT, YOU SHOULD NOT MAKE ANY KIND OF BIG FINANCIAL DECISIONS -- I'M TALKING ABOUT LIKE ANNUITIES OR SOMETHING -- WITHOUT NOTIFYING SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY.

VAL>> I SEE.

JESS>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME, BUT I HAVE TO ASK, WHICH IS MORE VULNERABLE? A MAN OR A WOMAN?

JANE HAAS>> ACTUALLY, WOMEN. WOMEN IN THAT AGE BRACKET ARE LESS INCLINED --

JESS>> -- THEY'RE SO TRUSTING.

VAL>> WE ARE. JANE HAAS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BY AND SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE WITH US AGAIN. GREAT TO SEE YOU.

JANE HAAS>> THANK YOU. NICE TO BE HERE.

VAL>> TOMORROW NIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES, THE BELMONT LEARNING CENTER WAS CONSIDERED DEAD, THE VICTIM OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL FIASCO AND BAD MANAGEMENT, BUT NOW THE MUCH-NEEDED HIGH SCHOOL MAY BE COMING BACK TO LIFE. WE'LL BRING YOU THE LATEST ON BELMONT TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> IF YOU HAVE A SERIOUS ILLNESS, YOUR FIRST CHOICE FOR CARE IS LIKELY TO BE A TEACHING HOSPITAL, PLACES SUCH AS UCLA'S MEDICAL CENTER OR COUNTY USC WHERE DOCTORS, STUDENTS AND RESEARCHERS COME TOGETHER TO GIVE PATIENTS TOP-NOTCH MEDICAL CARE. BUT IS THIS VITAL PARTNERSHIP COMING APART?

VAL>> IN SOME PLACES, YES. FINANCIAL PRESSURES ARE STRAINING SOME OF OUR BEST TEACHING HOSPITALS. TONIGHT WE'LL TALK WITH DOCTORS FROM THE UCLA MEDICAL CENTER, BUT FIRST WE WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT PART OF A PBS SPECIAL THAT AIRED YESTERDAY. IT'S CALLED "THE PRICE OF MEDICAL EXCELLENCE" AND THE PANELISTS YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE ARE DISCUSSING A PATIENT THEY CALL "BOBBY".

>> "I THINK THEIR JOB IS TO DO WHATEVER THEY CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT BOBBY HAS THE BEST CHANCE AT A SUCCESSFUL LIFE. ON THE OTHER HAND, CAN ALL THE BOBBY'S COME TO ACADEMIC MEDICAL CENTERS? SHOULD THAT BE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY? HOW DO THEY HANDLE THEIR OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES THAT OTHER PLACES CAN'T DO, LIKE THE RESEARCH AND TEACHING?

>> WE NEED TO STEP BACK FOR A MINUTE AND THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE EXPECT FROM OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM. WHO SHOULD BE PROVIDING THE SERVICES? HOW WE'RE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR IT? AND WHAT WE CAN AFFORD TO DO?

>> ACADEMIC MEDICAL CENTERS NOW FIND THEMSELVES GOING THROUGH A MAJOR REFASHIONING OF HOW THEY ARE DOING THEIR BASIC SOCIETAL MISSIONS AND, IN THE PROCESS OF DOING SO, ARE ENCOUNTERING EXTRAORDINARY FINANCIAL PRESSURE BECAUSE THE REIMBURSEMENT SYSTEM HAS SUDDENLY SHIFTED SO DRAMATICALLY AS TO OUTSTRIP THE ABILITY TO RESPOND FAST ENOUGH IN ORDER TO MAKE ALL ENDS MEET."

JESS>> JOINING US NOW ARE DOCTOR ALAN ROBINSON AND DOCTOR NEIL PARKER, BOTH FROM UCLA'S SCHOOL OF MEDICINE.

DR. PARKER, SOME OF US WHO HAVE BENEFITED FROM BEING TREATED AT GREAT TEACHING HOSPITALS LIKE UCLA RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM, BUT HOW IS THE PROBLEM IN THE TEACHING HOSPITAL ANY DIFFERENT THAN IT IS FROM THE OTHER HOSPITALS?

DR. NEIL PARKER>> WELL, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MISSIONS THAN THE OTHER HOSPITALS. I MEAN, WE HAVE RESEARCH THAT'S GOING ON, WE'RE TEACHING MEDICAL STUDENTS, WE'RE TEACHING RESIDENTS, SO THERE'S A LOT OF EXTRA INCREASED COSTS. PLUS TO HAVE THE TRAUMA NETWORKS THAT A LOT OF THE HOSPITALS DON'T HAVE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE ALL THE TIME AND A LOT OF THE OTHER HOSPITALS DON'T HAVE THAT. THEY DON'T NEED TO HAVE THAT.

VAL>> SO TEACHING HOSPITALS DO MORE, THEY HAVE A LARGER MISSION. BUT SOME WOULD SAY, WELL, DON'T THEY ALSO GET MORE FUNDING WHETHER IT BE FROM THE GOVERNMENT OR JUST TUITION? I MEAN, IT DOESN'T EVEN OUT?

DR. ALAN ROBINSON>> WELL, CERTAINLY, RESEARCH FUNDING HAS BEEN GOING UP AND THAT'S BEEN A BENEFIT. IT'S BEEN A BENEFIT FOR OUR COUNTRY. IT DOESN'T COVER ALL THE COSTS, HOWEVER, SO THAT THE UNIVERSITY, THE MEDICAL SCHOOL, WE'RE INVESTING IN THOSE RESEARCH OPPORTUNITIES TOO. SO WE RAISE MONEY AND WE INVEST THAT MONEY INTO RESEARCH. A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT YOU DO IS DONE AFTER YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING PRELIMINARY. YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU HAVE A GOOD IDEA BEFORE YOU CAN GET STARTED.

BUT THE OTHER THING IS OUR EDUCATIONAL MISSION. IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE TO DO MEDICAL CARE IN THE CONTEXT OF EDUCATION. UNFORTUNATELY, A LOT OF THE EDUCATIONAL EXPENSES IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN COVERED BY THE FACT THAT REIMBURSEMENT WAS GOOD IN HOSPITALS.

VAL>> YOU MEAN, LIKE MEDICARE, MEDI-CAL OR INSURANCE REIMBURSEMENTS?

DR. ALAN ROBINSON>> WELL, JUST PRIVATE INSURANCE USED TO BE A MUCH BETTER PAYER, SO THAT THE HOSPITALS WERE ABLE TO SUPPORT THEIR EDUCATION MISSION ON THE PATIENT CARE DOLLARS, AND NOW THEY'RE GETTING SQUEEZED.

JESS>> WHAT'S THE ANSWER? IS IT ADDITIONAL FEDERAL SUPPORT? GREATER COMMITMENT FROM GOVERNMENT?

DR. NEIL PARKER>> I THINK WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THERE ARE ALL THESE INCREASED COSTS AND WE REALLY HAVEN'T COME TO THAT. WE HAVE 20 MILLION UNINSURED. IF WE'RE REALLY GOING TO COVER THE COSTS OR WE'RE GOING TO COVER THE COSTS OF THE TRAUMA NETWORKS, THEN WE AS A SOCIETY HAVE TO COME UP WITH THOSE DOLLARS. I MEAN, THERE WAS SOME EFFORT AT A UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE COVERAGE. IF WE STARTED TO HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE AND WE HAD THE 20 MILLION PEOPLE WHO WERE UNINSURED NOW COVERED, THEN THE HOSPITALS WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THOSE COSTS AND TAKE IT OUT OF TRYING TO FIND THE FUNDING ELSEWHERE.

MEDICAL EDUCATION? I THINK WE REALLY HAVE TO COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT, IF WE WANT TO TRAIN OUR NEXT GENERATION WHO ARE GOING TO HOPEFULLY KEEP US ALL HEALTHY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT. WE REALLY AS A SOCIETY HAVEN'T DONE THAT. WE KEEP LOOKING AT ONE AREA AFTER ANOTHER, MOVING DOLLARS FROM HERE AND DOLLARS FROM THERE, BUT REALLY, IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE TOTAL COSTS, THEN WE NEED TO COME UP TO IT AND SAY WE NEED UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE, WE NEED TO FUND GRADUATE MEDICAL EDUCATION. WE NEED TO FUND OUR RESEARCH. I MEAN, WE'VE GAINED A LOT, BUT WE NEED TO GAIN MORE AND WE REALLY NEED TO --

JESS>> -- THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION WHETHER WE NEED MORE FEDERAL INTERVENTION, IT'S YES?

DR. NEIL PARKER>> YES, SIR.

VAL>> WHAT IS THE SITUATION AT UCLA? WHAT SHAPE IS UCLA MEDICAL CENTER IN? ARE YOU SEEING THE EFFECTS OF THE FINANCIAL PROBLEM?

DR. ALAN ROBINSON>> OH, YES, WE'RE VERY SQUEEZED. WHERE YOU SEE IT IS IN MEDICAL EDUCATION, IN THE EDUCATION. IT USED TO BE THAT A PERSON -- PEOPLE IN ACADEMIC MEDICINE IN GENERAL, THOSE PHYSICIANS AREN'T PAID AT THE SAME RATE AS PHYSICIANS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE. HISTORICALLY, THERE WAS THE ACCEPTANCE OF THAT BECAUSE THE MISSION WAS EDUCATION.

MANY DOCTORS CAME AND VOLUNTEERED TIME. EVEN DOCTORS WHO WERE WORKING IN THE COMMUNITY WOULD VOLUNTEER TIME AND THEY WOULD EDUCATE OUR STUDENTS. SO OUR STUDENTS WERE BEING EDUCATED, IF YOU WILL, ON THE BACKS OF THE PAYMENTS THAT WERE BEING MADE FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE SICK. NOW THAT'S HARDER TO DO. PEOPLE ARE SQUEEZED. DOCTORS DON'T HAVE TIME TO SPEND THAT EXTRA EFFORT TO EDUCATE OUR DOCTORS OF TOMORROW AND OUR MEDICAL STUDENTS.

VAL>> SO YOU'RE ACTUALLY HAVING TROUBLE GETTING DOCTORS IN WHO CAN TEACH YOUR STUDENTS CERTAIN THINGS?

DR. NEIL PARKER>> WELL, THEY'RE BEING SQUEEZED TO ACTUALLY DOCUMENT MORE, ALTHOUGH WE TALKED ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT. THE GOVERNMENT CAME AFTER PHYSICIANS AND SAID, WELL, YOU'RE NOT REALLY SUPPLYING THE CARE TO THE PATIENTS, SO DOCUMENT MORE. DON'T SPEND TIME TALKING TO YOUR PATIENTS. SHOW US WHAT YOU'RE DOING. SO IF THEY'RE SPENDING MORE OF THEIR TIME HAVING TO DOCUMENT, THEY'RE SPENDING LESS TIME WITH THE MEDICAL STUDENTS.

JESS>> HOW DO YOU, THEN, ATTRACT DISTINGUISHED PHYSICIANS. I'M NOT THINKING OF [INAUDIBLE] IN PARTICULAR, BUT YOU MUST ATTRACT THOSE --

DR. ALAN ROBINSON>> -- THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE GOOD DISTINGUISHED PHYSICIAN.

JESS>> HOW DO YOU ATTRACT A [INAUDIBLE] TO UCLA?

DR. ALAN ROBINSON>> WELL, I MEAN, WE CONTINUE TO DO THAT. A LOT OF IT IS THAT YOU GROW YOUR OWN. YOU BRING THEM ALONG AS STUDENTS AND RESIDENTS AND YOU GROW YOUR OWN BECAUSE THAT SOMETIMES IS MORE ECONOMICAL, IF YOU WILL, THAN HIRING A WHOLE GROUP OF PHYSICIANS AND BRINGING THEM IN.

YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THAT THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE PAPER RECENTLY ABOUT MT. SINAI HOSPITAL IN NEW YORK JUST HIRING AWAY FROM THE BIG BRIGHAM GROUP OF SURGEONS AND PAYING THEM A LOT OF MONEY TO COME THERE. WELL, MANY OF US IN ACADEMIC MEDICINE AREN'T ABLE TO DO THAT. WE DON'T HAVE THOSE DOLLARS, SO WE GROW THESE THROUGH OUR OWN SYSTEM. THAT MAKES THE EDUCATION OF OUR STUDENTS AND RESIDENTS DOUBLY IMPORTANT TO US.

VAL>> DO YOU THINK THAT THE CONCEPT OF A TEACHING HOSPITAL, RESEARCH, PATIENT CARE, TEACHING STUDENTS, IS THAT A CONCEPT THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE? IT'S NOT LONG FOR THE WORLD OR DO YOU THINK THAT THE TEACHING HOSPITALS WILL SURVIVE?

DR. ALAN ROBINSON>> THE TEACHING HOSPITALS WILL SURVIVE. THEY HAVE TO SURVIVE BECAUSE UNLESS WE JUST --

VAL>> -- WELL, YOU COULD JUST HAVE MEDICAL SCHOOLS. YOU COULD SEND THE STUDENTS TO MEDICAL SCHOOL.

DR. NEIL PARKER>> BUT WHERE WOULD THEY LEARN? YOU HAVE TO WANT TO TAKE THE EDUCATION, THE CLINICAL RESEARCH, AND BRING IT TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO ASK THE NEW QUESTIONS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE MEDICAL STUDENTS LEARNING WITH THE RESIDENTS, TAKING CARE OF PATIENTS, TAKING CARE OF THE PATIENTS THAT [INAUDIBLE] SEES, BUT ALSO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NORMAL PROBLEMS. AND IF YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO FRAGMENT THE CARE, YOU'RE GOING TO FRAGMENT THE EDUCATION AND WE'RE GOING TO BECOME A TECHNICAL SCHOOL AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE LEVEL OF CARE YOU WANT.

JESS>> WE'VE ALL SEEN "ER" AND NOW "SCRUBS". WE KNOW HOW IT WORKS. (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) REALLY. THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION. DOCTOR NEIL PARKER AND DOCTOR ALAN ROBINSON, BOTH FROM UCLA SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN.

DR. ALAN ROBINSON>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

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VAL>> LESS THAN THREE WEEKS FROM NOW, THOUSANDS OF VOTERS WILL OPEN THEIR BALLOTS, LOOK DOWN THE LIST OF PEOPLE RUNNING FOR JUDGE, AND ASK THEMSELVES, "WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?"

JESS>> MOST OF US REALLY DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THAT AND WE'RE RARELY AWARE OF THE PERSONAL BAGGAGE SOME OF THE CANDIDATES MAY BE CARRYING. JOINING US NOW IS SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS. AND ALSO HERE IS KENNETH OFGANG OF THE METROPOLITAN NEWS ENTERPRISE.

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. THERE'S A CLASSIC EXAMPLE IN ORANGE COUNTY NOW OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT?

KENNETH OFGANG>> WELL, THERE IS, BUT THERE'S A VERY UNUSUAL SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT CAME ABOUT THERE IN THAT A JUDGE WAS CHARGED WITH CRIMINAL OFFENSES BUT AFTER THE DEADLINE FOR FILING FOR THE BALLOT HAD OCCURRED. SO THE ONLY WAY THAT HE CAN BE CHALLENGED IS BY A WRITE-IN CANDIDATE.

VAL>> WHAT KIND OF CRIMINAL OFFENSES?

KEVIN ROSS>> THEY HAVE ALLEGATIONS WHERE HE WAS BEING IN POSSESSION OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND THEN I BELIEVE THERE IS A 26-YEAR-OLD -- THE CASE WAS FROM 26 YEARS AGO INVOLVING SOMEONE AND THE ALLEGATIONS, THE STATE CHARGES, INVOLVE CHILD MOLESTATION.

VAL>> WELL, THESE ARE SERIOUS. THIS IS NOT PARKING TICKETS OR --

KEVIN ROSS>> NO. IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE, IN THIS PARTICULAR RACE, YOU HAVE EIGHT INDIVIDUALS WHO NOW FEEL AS THOUGH THEY WANT TO SERVE AS JUDGES AND CHALLENGE THIS JUDGE. TWO OF THEM, A WOMAN NAMED GAY SANDOVAL WHO IS AN ATTORNEY AND ACTIVIST AND ANOTHER COMMISSIONER WHO'S BEEN ON THE BENCH FOR TWENTY YEARS HANDLING MATTERS OF BARRY COHN. THOSE TWO, AMONGST THE OTHER SIX AS WELL, ARE TRYING TO WRITE IN, BUT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO WIN A WRITE-IN ELECTION.

VAL>> AS A WRITE-IN CANDIDATE, YEAH.

JESS>> THERE'S A CAMPAIGN FOR JOHN ADAMS, TOO, TO WRITE IN HIS NAME IN THAT PARTICULAR RACE IN ORANGE COUNTY. BUT IT'S DIFFICULT FOR MOST OF US TO KNOW -- IT'S AWFULLY EASY TO VOTE FOR THE INCUMBENT.

KEVIN ROSS>> IT IS VERY EASY AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THE ELECTION -- THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY DEAR TO MY HEART --

VAL>> -- YOU HAD TO RUN TO BECOME A JUDGE.

KEVIN ROSS>> I RAN FOUR YEARS AGO AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO, EVERY TIME THEY WATCH THE SHOW, THEY SAY, WELL, I REMEMBER WHEN I HELPED YOU RUN. I MEAN, IT'S A VERY INTERESTING, CHALLENGING EXPERIENCE BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS BALLOT, AND THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BALLOT ON MARCH 4, WHEN YOU LOOK AT A BALLOT LIKE THIS AND YOU JUST SEE THESE NAMES, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE AND WHETHER OR NOT THESE INDIVIDUALS HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS.

TWO OF THE 21 CANDIDATES THIS YEAR ARE LISTED IN THE BALLOT IN TERMS OF THEIR BALLOT DESIGNATION AND SOMETHING ABOUT THEM, BUT THE OTHER 19 COULD NOT COME UP WITH THE $26,000 OR, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY CHOSE NOT TO SPEND THAT TO HAVE THEIR INFORMATION LISTED IN THE BALLOT.

VAL>> IT COSTS THAT MUCH TO HAVE INFORMATION? YOU HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE THIS INFORMATION LISTED?

KENNETH OFGANG>> THAT'S CORRECT. UNDER STATE LAW, THE COUNTY CAN REQUIRE THE CANDIDATES TO PAY THE ACTUAL COSTS OF PRINTING AND DISTRIBUTION. A LOT OF COUNTIES, OR AT LEAST SOME COUNTIES, DON'T REQUIRE THE CANDIDATES. THEY DO IT AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE. LOS ANGELES COUNTY HAS ALWAYS REQUIRED THE CANDIDATES TO PAY THE FULL COST WHICH COMES OUT TO ABOUT $26,000, ENGLISH ONLY. IF YOU WANT ENGLISH AND SPANISH, THEN DOUBLE IT.

VAL>> YOU'RE KIDDING. THAT SEEMS RIDICULOUS.

KENNETH OFGANG>> THAT'S CORRECT. WELL, THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE FOR THE TAXPAYERS TO PICK UP THE COSTS OF PRINTING 21 CANDIDATES' STATEMENTS AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS DOESN'T THINK THAT'S A HIGH ENOUGH PRIORITY.

JESS>> JUDGE ROSS, WHAT ABOUT THE BAR ASSOCIATION LOOKING AT THE CANDIDATES, LOOKING AT THEIR EXPERIENCE, AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS?

KEVIN ROSS>> THEY DO THAT AND THEY COME OUT WITH THESE RATINGS: NOT QUALIFIED, QUALIFIED OR WELL QUALIFIED. OF THE 21 CANDIDATES THAT ARE ON THE BALLOT THIS ELECTION, I BELIEVE ONLY TWO WERE INDICATED AS NOT QUALIFIED. THE OTHERS WERE EITHER WELL QUALIFIED OR QUALIFIED. AND IF YOU EVEN JUST LOOK AT THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE RUNNING, THERE ARE 21 CANDIDATES, TWENTY OF THEM ARE MEN, SO WE ONLY HAVE ONE WOMAN. WE HAVE TWO LATINOS WHO ARE RUNNING, NO AFRICAN-AMERICANS, NO ASIANS, NO NATIVE-AMERICANS, AND YOU SEE A LOT OF THEM THAT HAVE THE DESIGNATION OF BEING PROSECUTORS. I BELIEVE KEN COULD EVEN TELL YOU HOW SOMETIMES THAT'S ADVANTAGEOUS. IT WAS FOR ME, ANYWAY.

KENNETH OFGANG>> IT'S EXTREMELY ADVANTAGEOUS TO RUN AS PROSECUTOR. THE ONLY BETTER BALANCED DESIGNATION IS THAT OF INCUMBENT JUDGE. THE INCUMBENT JUDGES WIN ALMOST ALL THE TIME AND THE PROSECUTORS, GENERALLY IF THEY'RE NOT RUNNING AGAINST AN INCUMBENT JUDGE AND NOT RUNNING AGAINST THE PROSECUTOR, THEY USUALLY DO WIN.

JESS>> NOW THE JUDGE IN QUESTION IN ORANGE COUNTY IS AN INCUMBENT JUDGE?

KENNETH OFGANG>> HE'S AN INCUMBENT JUDGE. HE WILL, IN MOST PROBABILITY, BE RE-ELECTED. WHETHER HE EVER SITS ON THE BENCH AGAIN IS A DIFFERENT QUESTION. IF HE'S CONVICTED OF A FELONY, HE WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE.

VAL>> IF HE'S CONVICTED.

KENNETH OFGANG>> THE STATE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THAT.

VAL>> I SEE. OKAY, BUT GO BACK TO MY PROBLEM. I'M A VOTER, I'M LOOKING DOWN THIS LIST. I WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW THE BAR ASSOCIATION HAS RATED THE PARTICULAR CANDIDATE. HOW DO I FIND OUT?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, WE'RE GOING TO SHOW THE WEBSITE, BUT IT'S METNEWS.COM. YOU CAN GET ALL THE INFORMATION. KEN ACTUALLY COVERS THE ELECTIONS. AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHEN I RAN FOUR YEARS AGO, HE COVERED THE ELECTION THAT I WAS IN. BUT WHAT'S ALSO INTERESTING IS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE POWER OF THE INCUMBENCY, SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA THAT, WHEN IT SAYS ON THAT BALLOT THAT THIS PERSON IS A SUPERIOR COURT COMMISSIONER, THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THAT ACTUALLY MEANS THAT THEY'RE A JUDGE. BECAUSE WHEN IT SAYS "COMMISSIONER", ALL THAT'S SAYING IS I WAS NOT APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR, I WAS NOT ELECTED BY THE VOTERS, BUT OTHER JUDGES DEEMED ME WORTHY TO BE A JUDGE.

VAL>> OH, SO IT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF -- THEY'RE ACTING AND WORKING AS A JUDGE.

KEVIN ROSS>> AND OFTENTIMES, THOSE WHO RUN AS SUPERIOR COURT COMMISSIONERS ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE THE AVERAGE PERSON -- UNLESS THEY WATCH KCET -- WOULD HAVE NO IDEA THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY SAYING I'M A JUDGE, I'VE BEEN SITTING ON THE BENCH, I'VE HANDLED ASSIGNMENTS. BUT YET SOMEONE WHO MAY BE A PROSECUTOR OR FOR SOME OTHER REASON YOU MAY THINK, WELL, I THINK I LIKE THIS TITLE, TENDS TO GET THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

JESS>> I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE LOCAL NEWSPAPER AND THEIR ENDORSEMENTS WITH THEM TO THE POLLING PLACE ON JUDGES.

VAL>> OH, IS THAT A GOOD IDEA?

KENNETH OFGANG>> SOME PEOPLE DO THAT AND IT MAY BE AS GOOD AN APPROACH AS ANY IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. THE LOS ANGELES TIMES ENDORSEMENTS OVER THE YEARS, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE BEEN VERY INFLUENTIAL. THEY HAVE GENERALLY TRACKED THE COUNTY BAR EVALUATIONS IN MOST RACES. NOT ALWAYS.

VAL>> DOES YOUR PAPER ENDORSE JUDGES?

KENNETH OFGANG>> WE DO ENDORSE JUDICIAL CANDIDATES. I AM NOT ON THE EDITORIAL BOARD. I HAVE NO VOTE ON THAT. WE DO ENDORSE CANDIDATES IN ALL THESE RACES, OR IN MANY OF THE RACES. THE ONLY ENDORSEMENT WE'VE MADE THIS YEAR SO FAR IS ONE OF THE INCUMBENT JUDGES, JUDGE SIMPSON. I SUSPECT THE EDITORIAL BOARD WILL BE RELEASING MORE ENDORSEMENTS OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

KEVIN ROSS>> BUT IT'S JUST MY HOPE THAT, IF NOTHING ELSE, WHEN PEOPLE WATCH THIS, THEY TAKE THE TIME, GO TO METNEWS.COM. BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT CASES LIKE THE ELECTIONS BEING OVERTURNED IN COMPTON OR IF SOMEONE WANTS TO APPLY FOR A DIVORCE OR WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS THAT'S GOING ON, EVEN THE ISSUE WITH THE PEOPLE AT GUANTANAMO BAY, THESE ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO BE ADDRESSING.

VAL>> JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND KENNETH OFGANG, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN AND SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE.

AGAIN, IF YOU'D LIKE MORE INFORMATION ON THE JUDICIAL RACES IN L.A. COUNTY, YOU CAN LOG ONTO THE WEBSITE, AS KEVIN SAID, AT METNEWS.COM.

JESS>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT. THANKS FOR JOINING US.

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