2/25/02

LC020225

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> LIFE CAN BE MORE PAINFUL WHEN YOU'RE A MINORITY AND WE MEAN THAT LITERALLY. TONIGHT A LOOK AT HOW SOME MINORITY PATIENTS MAY BE LESS LIKELY TO GET ADEQUATE PAIN MEDICATION.

GAY YEE>> DOCTORS OFTEN UNDER-PRESCRIBE PAIN MEDICATION OUT OF FEAR IT WAS ADDICTIVE OR HAD LONG-TERM SIDE EFFECTS AND THE PROBLEM MAY BE EVEN WORSE FOR MINORITY PATIENTS.

EDITH MILLS>> I COULDN'T STAND THE PAIN. I WOULD BE MISERABLE ALL THE TIME.

VAL>> IT WAS THE MOST EXPENSIVE CONGRESSIONAL RACE IN U.S. HISTORY. NOW THE WINNER IS A BACKER OF CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. WE'LL TALK WITH CONGRESSMAN ADAM SCHIFF ABOUT THAT AND ABOUT HIS OTHER PASSION: PRESERVING CALIFORNIA'S GREAT OPEN SPACES AND KEEPING DEVELOPERS FROM SWALLOWING UP MORE OF THE STATE'S NATURAL HILLSIDES.

JESS>> AND THESE ARE THE FACES OF FIGHTER PILOTS IN WORLD WAR II. THEY MADE HISTORY BY FIGHTING TWO BATTLES. ONE IN THE SKIES, THE OTHER AGAINST ENTRENCHED DISCRIMINATION. WE'LL TALK WITH ONE OF THE ORIGINAL TUSKEGEE AIRMEN.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

NEVER BEFORE HAVE DOCTORS HAD SO MANY TOOLS TO FIGHT PAIN. ADVANCES HAVE MADE IT POSSIBLE TO CONTROL CHRONIC SUFFERING UP TO NINETY PERCENT OF THE TIME. BUT ACCORDING TO THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, NOT EVERYONE HAS EQUAL ACCESS TO PAIN RELIEF.

VAL>> THE AMA REPORT POINTS TO A POSSIBLE ETHNIC BIAS IN PAIN RELIEF. IT MEANS THAT, IF YOU'RE BLACK OR LATINO, YOU MAY BE LESS LIKELY TO GET PAIN MEDICATION THAN IF YOU WERE WHITE. AS GAY YEE REPORTS, THE PROBLEM STARTS WITH THE ATTITUDE OF SOME HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS.

GAY>> EDITH MILLS HAS ARTHRITIS. THE PAIN IS OFTEN SO BAD SHE OFTEN JUST STAYS IN BED. THE MEDICINE DOCTORS GAVE HER WAS TOO WEAK TO OFFER MUCH RELIEF.

EDITH MILLS>> I COULDN'T STAND THE PAIN. I WOULD BE MISERABLE ALL THE TIME.

GAY>> AND SHE'S NOT ALONE. A STUDY REPORTED IN THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION REVEALS MANY PATIENTS, EVEN THOSE WITH LIFE-THREATENING ILLNESSES, ARE ROUTINELY UNDER-MEDICATED. THERE ARE OTHERS, LIKE THIS WOMAN WHO GET DRUGS THAT AREN'T TAILORED TO THEIR NEEDS.

MICHAEL KLOSE>> THEY WEREN'T MANAGING THE PAIN. I FELT THAT SHE WAS BEING NOT OVERDOSED, BUT SHE WAS JUST GETTING SO MUCH PAIN MEDICINE THAT IT WAS HARD FOR HER TO FUNCTION. SHE WASN'T EATING BECAUSE SHE COULDN'T BRING THE FOOD UP TO HER MOUTH.

GAY>> IN THE PAST, DOCTORS OFTEN UNDER-PRESCRIBED PAIN MEDICATION OUT OF FEAR IT WAS ADDICTIVE OR HAD LONG-TERM SIDE EFFECTS AND THE PROBLEM MAY BE EVEN WORSE FOR MINORITY PATIENTS. A NEW STUDY FOR THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION FOUND MINORITIES ARE EVEN LESS LIKELY TO RECEIVE PROPER PAIN MEDICATION THAN OTHERS.

DR. STACIE PINDERHUGHES>> THERE WAS ONE STUDY THAT LOOKED AT HISPANIC PATIENTS GOING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM WITH BONE FRACTURES AND THAT STUDY FOUND THAT HISPANIC PATIENTS WERE TWO TIMES LESS LIKELY TO RECEIVE ANY PAIN MEDICATION COMPARED WITH THEIR WHITE COUNTERPARTS. THERE WAS ANOTHER STUDY LOOKING AT AFRICAN-AMERICAN PATIENTS AND THAT STUDY FOUND SIMILAR RESULTS.

GAY>> PINDERHUGHES SAYS THE ANSWER IS FOR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS TO EXAMINE THEIR ATTITUDES AND STEREOTYPES WHEN THEY TREAT PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS.

DR. STACIE PINDERHUGHES>> WHEN THEY'RE COMPLAINING OF PAIN, IF WE HAVE A REACTION TO THAT AND YOU'RE FEELING LIKE WE ARE NOT WANTING TO PRESCRIBE A STRONG PAIN MEDICATION, YOU NEED TO EXAMINE WHAT'S GOING ON INTERNALLY AND WHY THAT IS.

GAY>> SOME PATIENTS DO BETTER RECEIVING WHAT IS CALLED PALLIATIVE CARE, WHERE THE FOCUS IS ON QUALITY AND COMFORT FOR THE PATIENTS. DR. CHARLES VON GUNTEN HEADS THE CENTER FOR PALLIATIVE STUDIES AT SAN DIEGO HOSPICE. HIS REPORT ON PALLIATIVE CARE IN THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION CALLS FOR A TEAM APPROACH.

DR. CHARLES VON GUNTEN>> PATIENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES SHOULD EXPECT THEIR PHYSICIANS AND THEIR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM TO RELIEVE THEIR SUFFERING AND IMPROVE THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE. THEY SHOULD EXPECT THAT KIND OF EXPERTISE. THEY SHOULD EXPECT ATTENTION TO THEIR PHYSICAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL, SOCIAL AND SPIRITUAL NEEDS AS PART AND PARCEL OF THEIR TOTAL HEALTHCARE.

GAY>> UNDER THIS PHILOSOPHY, DOCTORS PRESCRIBE PAIN MEDICATION MORE ON HOW PATIENTS FEEL RATHER THAN CONCERNS THAT IT COULD LEAD TO ADDICTION.

DR. STACIE PINDERHUGHES>> WE NEED TO ASK PROVIDERS TO HAVE BETTER EDUCATION IN PAIN CONTROL. WE NEED TO HAVE BETTER EDUCATION IN THE MANAGEMENT OF SIDE EFFECTS FROM THE PAIN MEDICATIONS THAT WE USE TO TREAT PATIENTS. WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETHING LIKE THE RISK OF ADDICTION FROM THESE MEDICATIONS IS VANISHINGLY LOW.

GAY>> AND THESE DAYS, THERE ARE MORE OPTIONS, NEWER TOOLS TO CONTROL PAIN AND BETTER TECHNOLOGY. DR. PINDERHUGHES FOUND THAT STRONGER DRUGS HELPED EDITH MILLS. SHE PRESCRIBED A PATCH INSTEAD OF A PILL SO EDITH DOESN'T HAVE TO REMEMBER TO TAKE A DOSE EVERY FOUR HOURS.

EDITH MILLS>> SINCE THE PAIN IS NOT SO SEVERE, I DO GET OUT AND MAKE MYSELF GO AHEAD.

GAY>> AND FOR MANY PATIENTS DEALING WITH CHRONIC PAIN, A MORE COMFORTABLE FUTURE AHEAD. GAY YEE FOR LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER, DIRECTOR OF THE PAIN MANAGEMENT CLINIC AT USC KECK SCHOOL OF MEDICINE. THOSE WHO ARE CRITICAL SEEM TO BE ARGUING IN FAVOR OF PAIN MEDICATION ON DEMAND. IS THAT NOT RISKY?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> IF ONE IS CAREFUL TO ASSESS THE PATIENT AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE A REAL PAIN PROBLEM THAT YOU'RE TREATING, YOU KNOW, A REAL MEDICAL PROBLEM, THEN THE PATIENT IS THE BEST JUDGE OF WHAT THEY NEED. IT HAS TO BE DONE IN A CONTROLLED WAY, BUT THERE IS NO WAY TO MEASURE HOW MUCH PAIN YOU'RE HAVING.

JESS>> AND THE CONCERN ABOUT ADDICTION IS NOT A GREAT CONCERN?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> NOT WHEN IT'S IN THE CONTEXT OF TREATING PAIN. WHEN PEOPLE USE THESE MEDICATIONS FOR PURPOSES OTHER THAN TREATING PAIN, TO TREAT THEIR ANXIETY OR TO ESCAPE OR RECREATIONAL, THEN THERE'S A REAL RISK.

VAL>> ANOTHER REASON THAT I READ WAS THAT THE REASON WHY MINORITIES DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO PAINKILLERS IS BECAUSE PHARMACIES IN LOW-INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS OFTEN DON'T CARRY AS MANY PAINKILLERS AS OTHER PHARMACIES. IS THAT RIGHT?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> IT APPEARS TO BE. THERE WAS A RECENT STUDY LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE WHICH SHOWS THAT AND CERTAINLY, IN MY EXPERIENCE, MANY OF MY PATIENTS HAVE GREAT DIFFICULTY FINDING PHARMACIES THAT CARRY IT AND FINDING PHARMACIES WILLING TO EVEN ORDER IT.

VAL>> NOW WHY WOULD THAT BE?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> I'M NOT SURE. I CAN SPECULATE THAT THE PHARMACIES ARE CONCERNED THAT THEY MAY BE IN A HIGHER CRIME NEIGHBORHOOD OR THAT THEY MAY BE THE VICTIMS OF CRIME IF THEY CARRY THESE MEDICATIONS. I'M NOT SURE IT'S A REALISTIC CONCERN, BUT --

VAL>> -- BUT, BASICALLY, BURGLARS BREAKING INTO A PHARMACY AND TAKING WHAT'S CONSIDERED HIGHLY COVETED DRUGS?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> THAT, I THINK, IS THE CONCERN THAT THEY DO HAVE.

JESS>> HAS THERE BEEN THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEW PAIN RELIEF MEDICATION IN RECENT YEARS THAT RELIEVES SOME OF THESE CONCERNS THAT WE ALL HAD ABOUT MORPHINE AND CODEINE AND WHAT WE THOUGHT WERE HIGHLY ADDICTIVE DRUGS?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> WELL, THERE ARE DRUGS OTHER THAN THE OPIOIDES, WHICH ARE THE ONES YOU MENTIONED, AND THEY ARE IMPROVING AND THERE'S MORE IN THE RESEARCH PIPELINE THAT ARE COMING OUT. AND EVEN THE OPIOIDES THEMSELVES ARE NOW AVAILABLE IN DIFFERENT FORMS THAT MAKE THEM EASIER TO PRESCRIBE IN WAYS THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT LESS LIKELY TO GET ABUSED, BUT THE RISK IS STILL THERE IF THE PATIENT ISN'T TREATING A TRUE PAIN PROBLEM.

JESS>> BUT NOWHERE CAN WE FIND ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR TREATING MINORITY PATIENTS ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU'D TREAT ANYONE ELSE?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> CERTAINLY NOT.

VAL>> I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S AN EMPHASIS -- AND YOU'RE PROBABLY INVOLVED IN THIS MOVEMENT -- OF NOT JUST TREATING THE PATIENT FOR THE ACTUAL DISEASE, BUT INCLUDING PAIN CONTROL AND PAIN MANAGEMENT AS PART OF THE PATIENT'S OVERALL TREATMENT. IS THAT TAKING OFF? ARE WE ADVANCING THAT?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> MORE AND MORE, AND I'D LIKE TO SEE EVEN MORE AS WE SEE PATIENTS THAT HAVE MANY DIFFERENT SEVERE ILLNESSES WITH PAIN AS PART OF THE ILLNESS. IT REALLY DOES REQUIRE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF EXPERTISE TO ADDRESS SEVERE PAIN AND SO OFTEN WE WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE PATIENT'S PRIMARY DOCTOR.

VAL>> DOES THAT ADD COST TO TREATMENT?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> IT CAN, BUT ALSO IT CAN HAVE COST-SAVING EFFECTS BECAUSE NOW YOU CAN KEEP PATIENTS MUCH MORE FUNCTIONAL. THEY MAY OFTEN BE ABLE TO REMAIN IN WORK WHERE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE OTHERWISE.

JESS>> ARE DOCTORS BEING SENSITIZED TO THIS ISSUE? BEING TRAINED TO BE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE ISSUE OF PAIN?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> WE'RE WORKING VERY HARD TO DO THAT. TRADITIONALLY, DOCTORS HAVE RECEIVED VERY LITTLE FORMAL TRAINING IN PAIN MANAGEMENT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S ONE OF THE MOST COMMON PROBLEMS THAT PATIENTS BRING TO DOCTORS.

JESS>> IS IT NOW A SPECIALTY?

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> IT IS A SPECIALTY. IT'S BEEN A BOARDED SUB-SPECIALTY NOW FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS. OF SOME INTEREST, RECENTLY THE CALIFORNIA STATE LEGISLATURE PASSED A LAW REQUIRING ALL CALIFORNIA DOCTORS TO GET TWELVE UNITS, OR TWELVE HOURS, OF CONTINUING MEDICAL EDUCATION IN PAIN MANAGEMENT OVER THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

VAL>> BUT STILL WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE ETHNIC BIAS, BECAUSE YOU CAN GET TRAINING IN PAIN MANAGEMENT, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO OVERCOME SOME OF THE CULTURAL AND ETHNIC PREJUDICE THAT SEEMS TO EXIST.

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> YES. I THINK THERE ARE PREJUDICES AND I THINK THERE ARE MYTHS OUT THERE AND WE DO HAVE TO OVERCOME THEM.

VAL>> DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER FROM USC'S KECK SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BY. APPRECIATE IT.

DR. STEVEN RICHEIMER>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> TOMORROW NIGHT, LAPD CHIEF, BERNARD PARKS, JOINS US LIVE. THE CHIEF IS FIGHTING TO KEEP HIS JOB. IT'S AN ISSUE THAT HAS BECOME HIGHLY POLITICIZED AND, SOME SAY, RACIAL. CHIEF PARKS WILL BE HERE AND HE'LL TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS ON THE AIR. THAT'S TOMORROW, TUESDAY, ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE MOST EXPENSIVE CONGRESSIONAL RACE IN U.S. HISTORY. BOTH THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS SPENT TONS OF CASH, ALL TO WIN A SINGLE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. AT STAKE WAS THE SEAT OF A CERTIFIED REPUBLICAN STAR, CONGRESSMAN JIM ROGAN OF GLENDALE, ONE OF THE HOUSE PROSECUTORS IN THE CLINTON IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS. THE CHALLENGER WAS A SOMEWHAT LESSER-KNOWN STATE LAWMAKER, ADAM SCHIFF. WHEN THE DUST CLEARED, ADAM SCHIFF WAS THE WINNER. NOW AS A FRESHMAN CONGRESSMAN, HE CLAIMS IT'S TIME TO SQUEEZE BIG MONEY OUT OF POLITICS.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE BURBANK-GLENDALE-PASADENA AREA, CONGRESSMAN ADAM SCHIFF. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

ADAM SCHIFF>> THANK YOU. IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

JESS>> KEY WORD IS SOFT MONEY. HAS THE CONGRESS DETERMINED TO ELIMINATE SOFT MONEY AND WILL THE PRESIDENT SIGN THE BILL?

ADAM SCHIFF>> WE ARE VERY CLOSE. WE HAD A LENGTHY DEBATE IN THE HOUSE LAST WEEK. WE PASSED CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. THERE WAS A CONCERTED EFFORT, INDEED, BY THE LEADERSHIP OF THE HOUSE TO TRY TO KILL IT. AMENDMENT AFTER AMENDMENT, SOME VERY CLEVERLY DRAFTED TO LOOK LIKE THEY WERE PRO REFORM, BUT IN EFFECT, BLOW APART THE COALITION BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE THAT HAD COME TOGETHER BEHIND MCCAIN-FEINGOLD.

THOSE EFFORTS WERE ALL TURNED BACK, SO THE HOUSE HAS NOW PASSED CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. THE SENATE PASSED IT LAST YEAR. THEY'RE IN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FORMS, SO NOW IT IS FALLING ON THE SENATE TO PASS IT IN THE SAME FORM THE HOUSE DID AND THEN IT'S OFF TO THE PRESIDENT, AND I THINK HE'LL SIGN IT.

JESS>> WOULD THAT CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM HAVE CHANGED THE SITUATION IN YOUR CONGRESSIONAL RACE WHERE YOU SPENT $4.3 MILLION AND ROGAN SPENT $6.8 MILLION?

ADAM SCHIFF>> IT WOULD HAVE HAD A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE RACE NOT ON WHAT MR. ROGAN SPENT OR WHAT I SPENT PERSONALLY, BUT IN THE $5 MILLION TO $7 MILLION ADDITIONAL DOLLARS THAT WERE SPENT BY THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY, BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, BY BUSINESS, BY LABOR, ALL OF THAT SOFT MONEY EXPENDITURE THAT FLOODED INTO OUR DISTRICT IN THE LAST THIRTY OR SIXTY DAYS IN THE FORM OF THESE ANONYMOUS ADVERTISEMENTS THAT URGED VIEWERS OR LISTENERS TO NOT VOTE FOR OR AGAINST EITHER ONE OF US, BUT TO CALL US AND TELL US WHAT A GREAT JOB OR A LOUSY JOB WE WERE DOING.

THIS SOFT MONEY IS BASICALLY A LOOPHOLE THAT ALLOWS THESE ENORMOUS UNACCOUNTABLE, EVEN ANONYMOUS, CONTRIBUTIONS TO BE MADE TO INFLUENCE ELECTIONS, BUT THEY GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T TELL YOU TO ACTUALLY VOTE FOR THE PERSON. THIS LEGISLATION ELIMINATES THAT MAJOR LOOPHOLE. I THINK IT GOES A LONG WAY TO RESTORING SOME OF THE CONFIDENCE WE CAN HAVE AND WHAT WE'RE BEING TOLD AROUND ELECTION TIME.

VAL>> SO DOES IT ABSOLUTELY ELIMINATE IT? IN OTHER WORDS, THERE IS NO WAY THAT SOFT MONEY CAN PLAY A ROLE IN FUTURE ELECTIONS? THERE'S NO LOOPHOLE HERE?

ADAM SCHIFF>> WELL, IT DOESN'T ABSOLUTELY ELIMINATE IT. IT DOES ELIMINATE ANY SOFT MONEY EXPENDITURES ON ADVERTISEMENTS ON TV, ON RADIO, PRINT ADVERTISEMENTS. THERE IS A SMALL --

VAL>> -- WITHIN A CERTAIN WINDOW?

ADAM SCHIFF>> WITHIN SIXTY DAYS OF THE ELECTION. BEYOND THAT SIXTY DAYS, IT DOES ALLOW A SMALL AMOUNT OF SOFT MONEY TO BE USED FOR GRASSROOTS ACTIVITY, FOR VOTER REGISTRATION, GET OUT THE VOTE, THOSE TYPES OF DRIVES. BUT COMPARED TO THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY SPENT, THE AMOUNT THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED IS PRETTY NEGLIGIBLE.

JESS>> TO WHAT EXTENT IS THE CAMPAIGN TO ELIMINATE SOFT MONEY AND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM OWE ITS CURRENT SUCCESS TO THE ENRON SCANDAL?

ADAM SCHIFF>> WELL, I THINK TO A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE, ALTHOUGH NOT OVERWHELMING, IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAD A DEBATE ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM ON THE HOUSE FLOOR LAST YEAR. THE OPPOSITION SUCCESSFULLY BEAT IT BACK AND KILLED IT. IN ORDER FOR US TO EVEN GET A VOTE ON IT THIS YEAR, WE HAD TO RESORT TO A VERY RARELY USED DEVICE CALLED A DISCHARGE PETITION WHERE YOU HAVE TO GET FULLY HALF OF THE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE TO SIGN A PETITION THAT SAYS WE'RE GOING TO OVERRULE THE LEADERSHIP AND WE'RE GOING TO HEAR THIS BILL ON THE FLOOR. IT'S A WAY OF BLASTING A BILL OUT OF COMMITTEE.

WE GOT ABOUT 200 SIGNATURES, 205, 210, BEFORE ENRON HIT, SO WE WERE PRETTY CLOSE. ONCE ENRON HIT, WE QUICKLY EXCEEDED THE LIMIT, BROUGHT IT TO THE HOUSE FLOOR, AND I DO THINK IT WAS ON THE HOUSE FLOOR WHERE THEY OFFERED THIS SERIES OF VERY CLEVER AMENDMENTS DESIGNED TO KILL THE BILL THAT ENRON REALLY PLAYED A ROLE BECAUSE, BUT FOR THAT PROSPECT OF ENRON IN VOTERS MINDS AND THE FEAR IT INSTILLED IN SOME OF THE OFFICIALS WHO WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE VOTED AGAINST CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, IT PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED THE HOUSE.

VAL>> SO SOFT MONEY IS BANNED. WHAT ARE THE LIMITS ON THE AMOUNT OF MONEY A CORPORATION OR AN INDIVIDUAL CAN GIVE YOU DIRECTLY AS A CANDIDATE?

ADAM SCHIFF>> THE CURRENT LIMITS WOULD REMAIN THE SAME IN THAT CORPORATIONS THAT FORM EMPLOYEE PACTS OR LABOR THAT FORMS A PACT CAN STILL SPEND $5,000 OR $10,000 -- FIVE IN THE PRIMARY, FIVE IN THE GENERAL. INDIVIDUALS CAN GIVE $1,000 IN THE PRIMARY IN GENERAL. THERE MAY BE SOME ADJUSTMENT MADE TO THAT IN THE SENATE. I THINK THEY RAISED THE LIMITS IN THE SENATE FROM $1,000 TO $2,000 EACH CYCLE. WE REJECTED THAT IN THE HOUSE. BUT THE LIMITS PRETTY MUCH STAY THE SAME. WHAT REALLY CHANGES FUNDAMENTALLY IS ALL OF THOSE EXPENDITURES THAT ARE MADE CURRENTLY OUTSIDE OF THE LIMITS. SO BASICALLY, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS ENFORCE THE LIMITS WE ALREADY HAVE.

VAL>> I SEE.

JESS>> ADAM, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WE REGARDED CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM AS AN ISSUE FOR DEMOCRATS ALONE. IT SEEMS NOW TO BE MORE OF A BIPARTISAN ISSUE THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN IN THE PAST. WOULD YOU AGREE?

ADAM SCHIFF>> WELL, YES, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE STILL LIMITS TO THAT. IN THE HOUSE, WE WERE ABLE TO OBTAIN ABOUT PROBABLY TWENTY TO FORTY REPUBLICAN VOTES OUT OF THE 240, SO CERTAINLY NOT A MAJORITY OF THE GOP, BUT MORE THAN WE HAVE IN THE PAST AND THAT WAS VERY PROMISING. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE LEADERSHIP ON THE ISSUE WAS BIPARTISAN BOTH HOUSES. MCCAIN AND FEINGOLD IN THE SENATE, SHAYS AND MEEHAN IN THE HOUSE, ONE DEMOCRAT AND ONE REPUBLICAN, AND THAT WAS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

SOME OF THE MOST DRAMATIC MOMENTS THAT I'VE SEEN -- ADMITTEDLY, I HAVEN'T BEEN THERE VERY LONG -- TOOK PLACE DURING THIS DEBATE WHEN, FOR EXAMPLE, REPUBLICAN CHRIS SHAYS, IN ARGUING AGAINST AN AMENDMENT TO PROHIBIT LAWFUL IMMIGRANTS FROM CONTRIBUTING -- WHICH WAS DESIGNED TO KILL THE BILL -- SAID TO HIS GOP COLLEAGUES, "YOU KNOW, LOOK AT YOU. WE DO NOT LOOK LIKE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. I HOPE ONE DAY OUR PARTY DOES. WE DON'T LOOK LIKE THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS." YOU COULD HAVE HEARD A PIN DROP ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO SWITCH TOPICS A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GO TO AN ISSUE THAT WAS A BIG PART OF YOUR CAMPAIGN AND THAT MANY COMMUNITIES ARE FACING, AND THAT IS DEVELOPMENT. THE PARTICULAR CASE IN POINT IS GLENDALE'S HILLS, CALLED VERDUGO HILLS, 570-SOMETHING HOMES ARE BEING PLANNED FOR THAT AREA, SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE AGAINST. HOW ARE YOU DEALING WITH LOCAL DEVELOPMENT ISSUES AND HOW DO YOU SAVE THE OPEN SPACE?

ADAM SCHIFF>> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS. THE DEVELOPMENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, OAKMONT, AN EIR --

JESS>> -- THAT'S BEEN IN THE PIPELINE FOR A LONG TIME.

ADAM SCHIFF>> IT HAS. WE'VE WORKED HARD TO TRY TO MAKE SURE WE HAD THE RESOURCES TO PRESERVE THAT AS OPEN SPACE, THAT WE COULD GIVE THE OWNER-DEVELOPER OF THE PROPERTY A FAIR RETURN ON HIS INVESTMENT. WE'RE STILL HOPING THAT THE DEVELOPER WILL ACQUIESCE TO WHAT THE COMMUNITY REALLY WANTS IN THE PRESERVATION OF THE PROPERTY AND RECEIVE A REASONABLE RETURN ON HIS INVESTMENT. AN EIR HAS BEEN RELEASED. I THINK IT'S INADEQUATE. IT DOESN'T EVEN CONSIDER THE OPEN SPACE ALTERNATIVE. IT SAYS THAT NO PUBLIC AGENCY HAS BASICALLY EXPLORED IT AND, IN FACT, THE STATE GOVERNMENT HAS ALLOCATED $5 MILLION FOR THE PURCHASE. AN ADDITIONAL $3 MILLION IN BOND FUNDS IS AVAILABLE, SO IT'S PRETTY --

VAL>> -- BUT IT'S WORTH A LOT MORE THAN THAT, THOUGH?

ADAM SCHIFF>> WELL, I'M NOT SURE. THERE IS AN APPRAISAL THAT HAS BEEN DONE BY THE SANTA MONICA MOUNTAINS CONSERVANCY WHICH WE COULD ALL LOOK AT IF THE DEVELOPER WOULD GIVE HIS OKAY. HE HASN'T BEEN WILLING TO DO IT, SO I GOT TO THINK THAT WE'RE IN THE BALLPARK FINANCIALLY.

VAL>> THAT'S AN ISSUE FACING A LOT OF COMMUNITIES. CONGRESSMAN ADAM SCHIFF, THANK YOU SO MUCH, DEMOCRAT FROM THE PASADENA-BURBANK-GLENDALE AREA. THANK YOU.

ADAM SCHIFF>> THANK YOU.

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VAL>> IT HAS TAKEN MORE THAN FIFTY YEARS, BUT ONE GROUP OF FIGHTER PILOTS IS FINALLY GETTING ITS JUST RECOGNITION. THEY'RE THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN OF WORLD WAR II.

JESS>> THEY WERE TOPNOTCH AIRMEN, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY WERE AFRICAN-AMERICAN PILOTS AND CREW CHIEFS AT A TIME WHEN SEGREGATION IN THE SERVICE WAS STANDARD POLICY. YOU'LL MEET ONE OF THEM IN A MOMENT, BUT FIRST KITTY FELDE TELLS US HOW THE FLYERS FOUGHT AN ENEMY BOTH ABROAD AND AT HOME.

KITTY>> THESE ARE THE FACES OF AMERICAN HEROES. THE MEMBERS OF THE 99th FIGHTER SQUADRON, AND THE 332nd FIGHTER GROUP OF THE U.S. ARMY AIR CORPS. IN WORLD WAR II, THEY EARNED ALMOST 1,000 MEDALS. THEY WERE THE FIRST AVIATOR GROUP TO SINK A DESTROYER AND, WHILE FLYING AS ESCORTS, THEY NEVER LOST A BOMBER.

BUT PERHAPS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PART OF THEIR STORY IS NOT FOUND IN THEIR MILITARY RECORD. IT'S WRITTEN ON THEIR FACES. THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN WERE THE FIRST BLACK MEN IN AMERICA EVER TO FLY MILITARY PLANES IN SERVICE TO THEIR COUNTRY. THIS AT A TIME WHEN MANY PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE U.S. ARMED FORCES, BELIEVED BLACKS SIMPLY WEREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO FLY IN COMBAT.

SO THEY TRAINED IN TUSKEGEE, ALABAMA, THE HEART OF THE JIM CROW SOUTH. THEY LIVED IN SEGREGATED BARRACKS AND TRAINED UNDER WHITE COMMANDERS WHO OFTEN MADE IT VERY CLEAR THEY DIDN'T THINK THE BLACK CADETS COULD CUT IT, BUT THESE WERE NO ORDINARY MEN.

>> THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN CONSISTED OF VERY WELL-EDUCATED COLLEGE MEN, VERY WELL ACCOMPLISHED INDIVIDUALS. WE HAD LAWYERS, DOCTORS, PREACHERS, ALL-AMERICAN ATHLETES, WORLD RECORD-HOLDERS. THESE WERE ALL MEMBERS OF TUSKEGEE AIRMEN.

KITTY>> THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN FLEW MISSIONS OVER ITALY, FRANCE, AND GERMANY. THEY WERE THE FIRST AMERICAN AVIATORS EVER TO SINK A GERMAN DESTROYER. THEY ESCORTED BOMBER AIRCRAFT OVER ENEMY TERRITORY AND NEVER LOST A SINGLE BOMBER TO ENEMY FIRE THROUGHOUT THE WAR. WHEN THE WAR ENDED, MANY SERVICEMEN CAME HOME TO A HERO'S WELCOME, BUT FOR THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN, IT WAS A VERY DIFFERENT SCENARIO.

>> GOING INTO STORES AND BEING TREATED LIKE YOU WERE DIRT. HERE YOU ARE WEARING DECORATIONS FOR BRAVERY OR GALLANT PERFORMANCE, VALOR IN COMBAT. IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO THOSE PEOPLE. YOU WERE JUST ANOTHER N-I-G-G-E-R. IT WAS A HARD PILL TO SWALLOW.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS ONE OF THE 996 WORLD WAR II TUSKEGEE AIRMEN, SERGEANT EDWARD BRANTLEY. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> MR. BRANTLEY, IT'S BEEN LATE IN COMING, BUT IN RECENT YEARS, THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN HAVE BEEN LIONIZED. THEY'VE ACTUALLY BEEN PRAISED. BUT DOES THAT MAKE UP FOR ALL THE YEARS?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> NO, BUT IT HELPS.

VAL>> WHAT WAS YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME. (LAUGHTER) ONE OF THE MOST HORRENDOUS INCIDENTS THAT I CAN THINK OF WAS BEING ASKED TO LEAVE CHURCH.

VAL>> THIS WAS AT THE TUSKEGEE INSTITUTE?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> NO, THIS WAS AT HONDO, TEXAS. IT WAS A NAVIGATIONAL TRAINING SCHOOL. BY THAT TIME, I HAD WASHED OUT OF THE CADET TRAINING AND I'M JUST A LOWLY AIRMAN. BEING RAISED IN THE CHURCH, I WAS INVITED TO BRING A GROUP OF FELLOWS THAT I WAS TEACHING TO SING QUARTET-TYPE MUSIC TO COME TO CHURCH AND SING. WE DID. THE CHAPLAIN INVITED US TO COME BACK, BUT HE PHRASED IT, "COME BACK ANYTIME" AND I TOOK HIM UP ON IT. I WENT BACK TO CHURCH THE NEXT SUNDAY AND I WAS SOON ASKED TO LEAVE BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T START THE SERVICES WITH ME THERE.

JESS>> SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU WERE BLACK?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> YES. IT WAS A BITTER PILL TO SWALLOW TO GO TO A PX AND SEE THE GERMAN AND ITALIAN PRISONERS OF WAR SITTING BACK SMOKING THEIR CIGARETTES AND ENJOYING THE COOL AMBIANCE OF THE ROOM AND I HAVE TO PUT IN MY ORDER STANDING OUT OF THE DOOR.

VAL>> WHAT WERE SOME OF YOUR MORE SATISFYING MOMENTS OR YOUR MOST GRATIFYING MOMENTS?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> ANY TIME I WAS IN OR NEAR AN AIRPLANE. IT DIDN'T TAKE MUCH.

VAL>> AND YOU WERE A CREW CHIEF IN A CARGO PLANE, IN BOMBERS?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> YES, YES.

VAL>> HOW MANY FLIGHTS -- HOW MANY MISSIONS DID YOU GO ON?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> THEY WEREN'T CLASSIFIED AS MISSIONS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL JUST FLIGHTS WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. I THINK I HAVE ABOUT 2,800 HOURS.

JESS>> YOU HAD AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCE BEFORE JOINING TOO, DIDN'T YOU?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> YES, I WORKED FOR DOUGLAS AND WORKED ON SOME OF THE VERY SAME AIRPLANES THAT I LATER FLEW.

VAL>> AND, LOOKING BACK, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE VALUE OF ALL THIS AND THE LEGACY?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> WE BROKE DOWN THE BARRIERS OF SEGREGATION AND DISCRIMINATION. WHEN I SAY WE, THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN. I'M SORRY MY COUNTERPART COULDN'T MAKE IT TODAY. WE TRAVELED AS A TEAM. HE AS AN OFFICER WAS ONE OF THE OFFICERS THAT WAS MADE AN EXAMPLE OF. HE WAS ARRESTED, TRIED, FINED AND CONFINED AND LATER EXPELLED.

JESS>> ON WHAT CHARGE?

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> BECAUSE HE TRIED TO USE THE OFFICERS CLUB THAT HAD BEEN DESIGNATED AS WHITE.

JESS>> WELL, YOU'VE GOT A CHEST FULL OF MEDALS AND THE THANKS OF A GRATEFUL NATION COMING AT LAST. THANK YOU, EDWARD BRANTLEY, FOR JOINING US.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

EDWARD BRANTLEY>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.

VAL>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. REMEMBER, YOU CAN CHECK TRANSCRIPTS OR LISTEN TO RECENT SHOWS ON OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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