3/1/02

LC020301

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> THE WARNING IS OUT. GASOLINE PRICES COULD DOUBLE IN CALIFORNIA IF THE STATE HAS TO BEGIN USING ETHANOL INSTEAD OF MTBE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IT'S THE STATE'S LATEST BATTLE OVER POWER, BUT THIS TIME IT'S THE KIND OF POWER THAT GOES INTO YOUR GAS TANK. AND IT'S ALL ABOUT ETHANOL, A BYPRODUCT OF THE FARM BELT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO MAKE GASOLINE BURN CLEANER, BUT THERE'S JUST ONE PROBLEM. CRITICS SAY IT DOESN'T WORK.

VAL>> ARE TERM LIMITS TOO LIMITING? THEY WERE AIMED AT OUSTING CAREER POLITICIANS LIKE WILLIE BROWN, THE ONCE POWERFUL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER IN SACRAMENTO. WELL, NOW COMES A MEASURE THAT COULD GIVE BROWN AND OTHER POLITICIANS LIKE HIM A BREAK. TONIGHT WE'LL LOOK AT THE PROS AND CONS OF PROP 45.

JESS>> L.A. COUNTY'S FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY SAYS HE IS FINISHED WITH POLITICS, BUT GIL GARCETTI HAS A NEW PASSION. FOR MONTHS NOW, GARCETTI'S BEEN CLIMBING THE BEAMS OF THE NEW DISNEY CONCERT HALL AND CAPTURING THE IRON WORKERS IN ACTION. THE RESULT IS AN ONGOING PHOTO ESSAY THAT'S SOON TO BE A LOS ANGELES LANDMARK. TONIGHT THE PROSECUTOR-TURNED-PHOTOGRAPHER SHARES SOME OF HIS WORK.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

WE'RE BEGINNING TONIGHT WITH A STORY ABOUT POLLUTION AND POLITICS AND, FOR GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS, IT'S ALMOST A NO-WIN SITUATION. SHOULD DAVIS ENFORCE A STATE BAN ON A DANGEROUS GASOLINE ADDITIVE KNOWN AS MTBE? IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT EVERY CALIFORNIA MOTORIST MIGHT PAY THE PRICE AT THE GAS PUMP AND GOVERNOR DAVIS COULD PAY THE PRICE AT THE POLLS.

VAL>> MTBE IS ADDED TO GASOLINE TO REDUCE AIR POLLUTION. THE TROUBLE IS, IT ALSO CONTAMINATES OUR WATER. THAT'S WHY THE ADDITIVE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PHASED OUT BY THE END OF THIS YEAR. UNFORTUNATELY, THE ALTERNATIVE TO MTBE IS ETHANOL AND ETHANOL IS EXPENSIVE. A REPORT TO THE GOVERNOR WARNS THAT ADDING ETHANOL MIGHT CAUSE GAS PRICES TO DOUBLE.

JESS>> THAT MEANS THE PRICE HIKE WOULD HIT RIGHT AROUND THE TIME OF THE NOVEMBER ELECTION. MORE ON THAT LATER, BUT FIRST IN A PIECE WE FIRST AIRED LAST AUGUST, PHILIP BRUCE TAKES A CLOSER LOOK AT ETHANOL AND WHAT IT COULD DO FOR CALIFORNIA GASOLINE.

PHILIP>> ON MONDAY, GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS AND THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA LAUNCHED ANOTHER BATTLE WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OVER POWER, BUT THIS TIME THE POWER AT STAKE WAS THE GASOLINE USED TO FUEL YOUR CAR AND THE FIGHT IS OVER AN ADDITIVE CALLED ETHANOL. ETHANOL IS A BYPRODUCT OF CORN. IT'S USED TO OXYGENATE GASOLINE TO MAKE IT BURN CLEANER. OXYGENATES ARE REQUIRED IN AREAS SUCH AS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THAT HAVE HEAVY CONCENTRATIONS OF AIR POLLUTION.

RICHARD VARENCHIK>> ABOUT SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE GASOLINE SOLD IN CALIFORNIA IN AREAS THAT HAVE HIGH EMISSIONS OR HIGH POLLUTANT PROBLEMS ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN OXYGENATE.

PHILIP>> THE CURRENT ADDITIVE, MTBE, WILL BE PHASED OUT BY THE END OF NEXT YEAR. STATE EXPERTS SAID IT OFTEN ESCAPED FROM UNDERGROUND STORAGE TANKS AND POLLUTED THE GROUNDWATER. AND THAT LEAVES ETHANOL, THE NEXT MOST VIABLE REPLACEMENT FOR MTBE, BUT THERE'S A PROBLEM. THE USE OF ETHANOL COULD INCREASE THE PRICE OF GASOLINE AND CRITICS SAY ETHANOL MAY FAIL IN ITS MISSION TO REDUCE AIR POLLUTION.

RICHARD VARENCHIK>> THE USE OF ETHANOL OR OTHER OXYGENATES IN GASOLINE INCREASES NITROGEN OXIDE POLLUTION. NITROGEN OXIDE CONTRIBUTES TO THE FORMATION OF OZONE, WHICH IS THE MAIN HEALTH-DAMAGING CONSTITUENT OF WHAT WE REFER TO AS URBAN SMOG, SO YOU GET HIGHER OZONE LEVELS. YOU GET MORE PARTICULATE MATTER ALSO. YOU HAVE THE ADDITION OF AN INGREDIENT THAT CAUSES THE GASOLINE TO COST MORE. IT HAS NO BENEFICIAL AIR POLLUTION EFFECTS AND, IN FACT, IT CAUSES INCREASES IN TWO VERY HARMFUL AIR POLLUTANTS.

PHILIP>> THE BATTLE IS BROUGHT TOGETHER AT AN UNUSUAL COALITION, INCLUDING THE STATE GOVERNMENT, ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND THE OIL INDUSTRY. THEY ALL CHARGE THAT THE MANDATE IS NOT BASED ON SCIENCE.

RICHARD VARENCHIK>> IT FLIES IN THE FACE OF EVERY SCIENTIFIC STUDY TO REQUIRE THAT ETHANOL OR OTHER OXYGENATES BE USED IN CALIFORNIA'S GASOLINE. IT CAUSES MORE AIR POLLUTION. IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. IT MAKES THE GASOLINE MORE EXPENSIVE AND MORE POLLUTING. CAN'T EXPLAIN IT.

PHILIP>> AND CALIFORNIA'S STANDARDS ARE ACTUALLY HIGHER THAN FEDERAL STANDARDS WHEN IT COMES TO CLEAN-BURNING FUEL.

RICHARD VARENCHIK>> BUT THERE ARE AREAS IN CALIFORNIA WHERE GASOLINE TODAY IS BEING MANUFACTURED CLEANER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE WITHOUT OXYGENATES IN IT.

PHILIP>> SO WHY IS THE FEDERAL EPA REQUIRING CALIFORNIA TO ADD OXYGENATES TO THE STATE'S GASOLINE?

RICHARD VARENCHIK>> I CAN'T -- I MEAN, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EPA. IT CERTAINLY IS A BOON TO AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS. IT'S A DETRIMENT TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO ASK THE EPA WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

JESS>> GIVEN THE PROBLEMS AND EXPENSE OF ETHANOL, GOVERNOR DAVIS IS LEANING TOWARD STAYING WITH MTBE, BUT THAT MEANS EXTENDING THE USE OF A POTENTIAL CARCINOGEN FOR SEVERAL MORE YEARS.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS CARL ZICHELLA. HE IS WITH THE SIERRA CLUB, WHICH HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE MTBE ISSUE IN CALIFORNIA FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS.

CARL ZICHELLA>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

JESS>> THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE OTHER THAN SIMPLY HAVING ETHANOL OR MTBE, IS THERE NOT?

CARL ZICHELLA>> YES, THERE IS. THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE. AS THE PIECE MENTIONED, THERE ARE REFORMULATED GASOLINES THAT DON'T USE ETHANOL AS AN INGREDIENT THAT COULD ALSO COMPLY WITH AIR EMISSION STANDARDS OF CALIFORNIA.

JESS>> AND THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO US NOW?

CARL ZICHELLA>> WELL, IT'S ALSO -- THE PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THESE THINGS, THEY ALSO ARE WHAT THEY CALL "BOUTIQUES" FORMULATIONS. THEY ARE NOT BROADLY USED AND THEY ARE ALSO NOT IN BIG SUPPLIES EITHER. THEY COULD BE AVAILABLE MUCH MORE QUICKLY. THE OIL INDUSTRY THINKS THAT THEY COULD CREATE QUANTITIES THAT WOULD KEEP PRICES DOWN AND I THINK THE SIERRA CLUB HAS SUPPORTED THE WAIVER THAT WAS REQUESTED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SO THEY COULD USE THEM.

JESS>> BUT IT'S THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE EPA, THAT PROHIBITS THAT?

CARL ZICHELLA>> IT'S COMPLICATED POLITICS BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WANTING TO REWARD AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS IN FARM STATES. ONE COMPANY, ARCHER DANIEL MIDLAND, PRODUCES ABOUT EIGHTY PERCENT OF THE ETHANOL IN THE UNITED STATES, SO THIS IS A HUGE WINDFALL TO A MAJOR CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTOR, TO BOTH PARTIES TRUTHFULLY, AND YOU HAVE SENATOR TOM DASCHLE, WHO'S CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE ENERGY COMMITTEE WHO REPRESENTS A FARM BELT STATE AND WHO IS CONTEMPLATING A RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY WHO IS A BIG BOOSTER OF THIS.

AS WAS MENTIONED, IT DOESN'T REALLY HELP OUR AIR POLLUTION MUCH. ETHANOL WAS DESIGNED FOR HIGH ALTITUDE PLACES WHERE THERE'S NOT AS MUCH OXYGEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE. IT'S A HIGH-VOLATILITY CHEMICAL, SO IT MAKES THE GAS MORE VOLATILE SO IT WILL BURN MORE EASILY AT HIGHER ELEVATIONS, WHICH REDUCES CARBON MONOXIDE.

VAL>> I SEE. SO THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO BOTH MTBE AND ETHANOL, BUT CALIFORNIA CAN'T GET TO IT BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS WE'VE GOT TO USE ONE OF THESE TWO, RIGHT?

CARL ZICHELLA>> RIGHT.

VAL>> BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF WE GO FORWARD WITH THE MTBE BAN, ETHANOL COMES IN TO CALIFORNIA GAS, PRICES GO UP, GOVERNOR DAVIS IS FACING ELECTION IN NOVEMBER. CERTAINLY, YOU CAN SEE WHY HE WANTS TO EXTEND THE USE OF MTBE.

CARL ZICHELLA>> IT'S VERY UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THAT'S THE CASE. I THINK THE THING THAT HAS TO BE DECIDED IS WHERE IS THE BALANCE BETWEEN INCREASED AIR POLLUTION, INCREASED WATER POLLUTION AND HUMAN HEALTH? NOW THE COST OF GASOLINE, TO THE SIERRA CLUB AND TO ME, ARE SECONDARY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE MAYBE CONTRACTING CANCER. THERE IS A COST TO NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING. THERE'S A REAL PROFOUND HUMAN HEALTH COST IN NOT PHASING IT OUT WHEN IT WAS SUPPOSED TO.

JESS>> MTBE WAS EFFECTIVE IN REDUCING AIR POLLUTION. THE PROBLEM WAS, IT LEAKS FROM UNDERGROUND TANKS. IS THERE NO WAY TO CORRECT THAT AND CONTINUE TO ALLOW US TO USE MTBE BECAUSE OF ITS EFFECTIVENESS AND ALSO ITS PRICE?

CARL ZICHELLA>> I THINK THAT FOLKS WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE HAD THAT OPTION. THE PROBLEM WITH MTBE THAT NO ONE ANTICIPATED IS THAT IT MOVES THROUGH THE GROUND, THROUGH THE SOIL, SO QUICKLY, CONTAMINATES GROUNDWATER SO RAPIDLY AND CREATES SUCH A HARD PROBLEM TO ADDRESS. THE CITY OF SANTA MONICA, FOR EXAMPLE, DID A STUDY THAT SAID IT COULD COST UP TO $30 BILLION -- WITH A "B" -- DOLLARS TO CLEAN UP MTBE NOT JUST IN CALIFORNIA, BUT NATIONWIDE. BUT THAT'S STILL A STAGGERING NUMBER.

VAL>> SO POLITICS VERSUS POLLUTION. CARL ZICHELLA FROM THE SIERRA CLUB, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN.

CARL ZICHELLA>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

VAL>> MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, THEY SAY THEY WANT A REVOLUTION IN IRAN, BUT THEY'RE LAUNCHING IT FROM A TELEVISION STUDIO IN NORTH HOLLYWOOD. CAN A SMALL GROUP OF IRANIAN-AMERICANS BRING ABOUT CHANGE IN THEIR HOMELAND FROM HALF A WORLD AWAY?

GAY YEE>> AROUND THE CLOCK, THEY BEAM A NONSTOP BARRAGE OF AMERICAN-MADE INSULTS AND INFORMATION INTO IRAN.

[FILM CLIP]

GAY>> ARE YOU ACTUALLY ENCOURAGING PEOPLE IN IRAN TO RISE UP?

>> YES, WHY NOT? NOT WITH THE GUNS.

JESS>> TWELVE YEARS AGO, CALIFORNIA VOTERS PASSED TERM LIMITS AND THAT WAS BAD NEWS FOR MANY CAREER POLITICIANS IN SACRAMENTO. IT WAS ALL ABOUT CURBING THE POWER OF INCUMBENCY AND GETTING SOME NEW BLOOD IN GOVERNMENT.

VAL>> BUT CRITICS SAY JUST WHEN A LAWMAKER IS BECOMING EFFECTIVE, THEY'RE FORCED OUT OF OFFICE. THEY CLAIM VOTERS OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO KEEP GOOD REPRESENTATIVES IN OFFICE LONGER AND THAT'S WHAT PROP 45 WOULD DO.

JESS>> JOINING US TONIGHT ARE CINDY O'CONNOR, PRESIDENT OF THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, WHICH SUPPORTS PROP 45, AND FRANK MORENO, PRESIDENT OF THE CALIFORNIA MEXICAN-AMERICAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, WHICH OPPOSES LONGER TERM LIMITS.

FIRST OF ALL, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE ISSUE, THOSE "YES" FOR 45.

ANNOUNCER>> "...WE CHANGED OUR LAWS TO EXPAND THE RIGHTS OF VOTERS. WE CHANGED OUR CONSTITUTION TO GIVE WOMEN THE RIGHT TO VOTE. WE PASSED THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT TO PROTECT MINORITIES' VOTING RIGHTS. AND WE EXTENDED THE RIGHT TO VOTE TO 18-YEAR-OLDS. YES ON PROP 45 PRESERVES TERM LIMITS WHILE GIVING LOCAL VOTERS THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE TO KEEP, FOR FOUR MORE YEARS, A LEGISLATOR WHO'S DOING A GOOD JOB. YES ON PROP 45. TERM LIMITS THAT MAKE SENSE."

JESS>> AND THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS SUPPORTS THAT?

CINDY O'CONNOR>> YES, WE DO. YES, WE DO. THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS HAS NEVER BEEN TERRIBLY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT TERM LIMITS ANYWAY, BUT WE REALIZE THAT THAT IS A REALITY IN THIS WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN.

JESS>> AND IT WAS THE CHOICE OF THE VOTERS.

CINDY O'CONNOR>> AND IT WAS THE CHOICE OF THE VOTERS, YES. BUT WE DO THINK THAT WHAT WE HAVE DONE WITH OUR VERY SHORT TERM LIMITS THAT WE HAVE IS DEPRIVE THE CITIZENS OF THE STATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP GOOD LEGISLATORS FOR FOUR MORE YEARS. THIS MEASURE GIVES US A CHOICE WHETHER OR NOT TO DO THAT.

VAL>> VERY GOOD. WE'LL HEAR FROM THE OTHER SIDE, BUT FIRST WE WANT TO SEE THE POLITICAL AD THAT REPRESENTS THE VIEWPOINT OF THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST PROP 45. HERE IT IS.

ANNOUNCER>> "JOHN BURTON WAS ELECTED TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE IN 1964, THE SAME YEAR LYNDON JOHNSON WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT. THAT WAS 38 YEARS AGO. SINCE THEN, BURTON HAS HELD OFFICE UNDER EIGHT U.S. PRESIDENTS. CAREER POLITICIANS LIKE JOHN BURTON HAVE RAISED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM SPECIAL INTERESTS AND LOBBYISTS TO FOOL CALIFORNIANS AND KILL TERM LIMITS. TELL JOHN BURTON THAT 38 YEARS IS ENOUGH. SAY NO TO CAREER POLITICIANS. VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION 45."

JESS>> JOHN BURTON IS NOT ON THE BALLOT, BUT HE IS THE ENEMY IN THIS INSTANCE, HUH? (LAUGHTER)

FRANK MORENO>> HE HAS BEEN THERE A LONG TIME.

JESS>> TOO LONG, IN YOUR JUDGMENT.

FRANK MORENO>> WELL, THE PROBLEM WITH SUPPORTING PROPOSITION 45 HAPPENS TO BE THE REASON WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS MADE IT SO THAT PEOPLE, ORDINARY PEOPLE, WOULD BE REPRESENTATIVES OF THIS NATION. WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT FOUR MORE YEARS WILL MAKE A LEGISLATOR ANY MORE EFFECTIVE. IN FACT, WHAT IT WILL DO IS ALLOW THAT LEGISLATOR TO BE MORE BEHOLDING TO SOME OF THE SPECIAL INTERESTS.

IT'S NO SECRET THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS POURED IN $3 MILLION DOLLARS INTO THE PRO 45 CAMPAIGN. SO, FROM OUR PART, WHAT WE SEE HERE IS KIND OF AN ONEROUS WAY OF DISPLAYING THEMSELVES HERE TO THE COMMUNITY BY SAYING IT'S A TERM LIMITS INITIATIVE, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY. IT'S AN EXPANSION OF THE CURRENT TERM LIMITS.

VAL>> CINDY, WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THOSE WHO SAY THAT, WHEN THEY'RE IN OFFICE FOR A LONG TIME, THEY BECOME BEHOLDING TO SPECIAL INTERESTS?

CINDY O'CONNOR>> WELL, TEN OR TWELVE YEARS IS NOT EXACTLY A LONG TIME. ACTUALLY, RIGHT NOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT OUR SO-CALLED CITIZEN LEGISLATORS ARE BEHOLDING TO SPECIAL INTERESTS BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONLY ONES WITH ANY INFORMATION AND LONG-TERM MEMORY. THE LOBBYISTS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE CALLING THE SHOTS NOW BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO REMEMBER WHERE THE BODIES ARE BURIED OR HAVE THE INFORMATION ON AN ISSUE.

RIGHT NOW, SIX YEARS IN THE ASSEMBLY IS NOT ENOUGH TIME TO LEARN THE DEPTH AND BREADTH OF THE ISSUES THAT PEOPLE IN THIS STATE NEED TO BE DEALING WITH. WE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO HAVE A SO-CALLED CITIZEN LEGISLATURE. OUR PEOPLE HAVE TO DEAL WITH VERY COMPLICATED ISSUES. WE'RE THE LARGEST STATE IN THE NATION AND WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOVICES IN PUBLIC OFFICE AT THE STATE LEVEL.

JESS>> THE LARGEST STATE IN THE NATION, BUT WITH THE SHORTEST TERM LIMITS.

CINDY O'CONNOR>> THAT'S TRUE, THAT'S TRUE.

JESS>> IS THIS NOT A COMPROMISE BETWEEN THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF TERM LIMITS ENTIRELY AND THOSE SUCH AS YOU WHO WANT TO MAINTAIN IT?

VAL>> BECAUSE THIS WOULD NOT MANDATE TERM LIMITS. IT WOULD JUST SIMPLY ALLOW THOSE IN A DISTRICT TO PETITION A CHANCE FOR THEIR REPRESENTATIVE TO RUN AGAIN. IT DOESN'T DEMAND EXTENSION.

CINDY O'CONNOR>> THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

FRANK MORENO>> WELL, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT COMPROMISE HERE. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WHAT, TWELVE YEARS AGO, THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA VOTED FOR. THEY VOTED FOR ASSEMBLY SIX YEARS AND FOR STATE SENATE EIGHT YEARS.

JESS>> BUT THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN A CHANCE TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS --

CINDY O'CONNOR>> -- WELL, IT WAS THAT OR NOTHING --

FRANK MORENO>> -- WELL, YES, THEY ARE BEING GIVEN A CHANCE. HOWEVER, THIS IS NOT A PROGRAM WHERE YOU GET INTO THE JOB AND YOU LEARN AS YOU GO ALONG. WHAT WE EXPECT, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US IN THE LATINO COMMUNITY, IS THAT THOSE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT COME IN, THEY COME IN KNOWLEDGEABLE. THE ARGUMENT THAT THEY MAY NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE, WE'RE IN AN INFORMATION AGE WHERE WE CAN DIAL UP THE INTERNET AND WE CAN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE. WE KNOW WHERE THE DEAD BODIES ARE BURIED. SO THE ARGUMENT IS NOT REALLY COMPELLING. WHAT IT IS, IT ALLOWS SPECIAL INTERESTS TO REALLY -- SOMEBODY WHO'S ALREADY IN OFFICE CAN EASILY GET THE 26,000 OR THE 30,000 SIGNATURES HE OR SHE NEEDS BEING AN INCUMBENT --

JESS>> -- TWENTY PERCENT OF THE VOTE?

FRANK MORENO>> BEING ABLE TO -- IN DISTRICTS, IN THEIR OWN DISTRICTS, IN THE ASSEMBLY DISTRICTS OR IN THE STATE SENATE DISTRICTS --

CINDY O'CONNOR>> -- THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

FRANK MORENO>> -- AND ALLOW THEMSELVES, THROUGH THAT MONEY, TO BE RE-ELECTED AGAIN FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS AND THEREBY BEING ABLE TO GIVE THAT SPECIAL INTEREST EXTRA TIME TO CHANNEL ITS AMENDMENTS AND ITS LOBBY ON THE STATE CAPITAL.

CINDY O'CONNOR>> DON'T YOU THINK, THOUGH, THAT WE DESERVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND COMPLICATED ISSUES IN PLACE TO GO AHEAD AND WORK ON THOSE ISSUES? RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE LEGISLATORS WHO CAN FORM A LONG-RANGE PLAN AND EXPECT TO GET IT IMPLEMENTED. EVERYTHING IS ON A VERY SHORT-TERM BASIS.

HALF OF THE SENATE AND A THIRD OF THE ASSEMBLY UNDER OUR PRESENT SYSTEM IS LAME DUCK. NOW YOU CAN SAY LAME DUCK IS GOOD OR YOU CAN SAY IT'S BAD. IN EITHER CASE, IT'S STILL LAME DUCK. FOR TWO YEARS, THE LAST TERM OF THE ASSEMBLY, THEY'RE LOOKING AT WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO NEXT OR WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO NEXT AND THEY'RE RAISING MONEY FOR WHATEVER THEY'RE GOING TO DO NEXT INSTEAD OF TENDING TO THE BUSINESS OF THE STATE.

VAL>> IT ALSO LEADS TO KIND OF A STRANGE SORT OF POLITICAL MUSICAL CHAIRS. THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE TERMED OUT. WE HAD TOM HAYDEN WHO HAS HELD STATE OFFICE RUNNING FOR L.A. CITY COUNCIL JUST BECAUSE HE NEEDED A PLACE TO LAND.

FRANK MORENO>> WELL, BUT HE DIDN'T GET ELECTED, DID HE? AND THAT WAS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE REALIZED THAT WHATEVER LEGISLATION HE WAS OFFERING IN SACRAMENTO WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET HIM ELECTED. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS THAT THE CREAM RISES TO THE TOP. IF YOU ARE A GOOD LEGISLATOR AS AN ASSEMBLYMAN, THEN YOU SHOULD, BY ALL REASON, BE A GOOD STATE SENATOR. THIS IS NOT ON-THE-JOB TRAINING. YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALREADY A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER IN YOUR LOCAL CITY COUNCIL, IN YOUR LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD, BEFORE YOU GET TO THE ASSEMBLY. NOT JUST RUN TO THE ASSEMBLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE SPECIAL INTERESTS BACKING YOU AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO STOP.

CINDY O'CONNOR>> BUT THAT'S NOT --

VAL>> -- FINAL TEN SECONDS.

CINDY O'CONNOR>> THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING ANYWAY. PEOPLE WHO RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE COME OUT OF VERY PAROCHIAL AREAS AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THEY HAVE THE TIME TO LEARN THE STATE ISSUES AND THEN ACT ON THOSE.

VAL>> VERY GOOD. CINDY O'CONNOR FROM LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS AND FRANK MORENO FROM THE MEXICAN-AMERICAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PERSPECTIVES.

FRANK MORENO>> THANK YOU, VAL.

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JESS>> HE WAS L.A. COUNTY'S CHIEF PROSECUTOR FOR EIGHT YEARS OVERSEEING SUCH CASES AS THE RODNEY KING CASE AND THE O.J. SIMPSON CASE. THEN TWO YEARS AGO, GIL GARCETTI LOST HIS BID FOR RE-ELECTION. SO WHAT DOES A FORMER D.A. DO?

VAL>> HE PICKS UP A CAMERA AND STARTS CRAWLING UP THE TREACHEROUS BEAMS OF DISNEY HALL. THAT'S RIGHT. GIL GARCETTI, WHO HAS ALWAYS LOVED PHOTOGRAPHY, HAS TURNED HIS LENS ON A ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY, THE CHANCE TO PHOTOGRAPH IRON WORKERS AS THEY BUILD THE SKELETON OF THE SPECTACULAR DISNEY HALL. GARCETTI JOINED US RECENTLY TO SHARE SOME OF THOSE WONDERFUL IMAGES AND THE STORIES BEHIND THEM.

JESS>> GIL, ALTHOUGH YOU'VE BEEN TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS FOR THIRTY-SOME YEARS, WHAT ATTRACTED YOU TO THIS PROJECT?

GIL GARCETTI>> ONE DAY, COMING HOME FROM A MEETING DOWNTOWN, I WAS BETWEEN THE MUSIC CENTER AND DISNEY HALL AND I SAW THIS IRON WORKER LITERALLY CRAWLING ON ALL FOURS OVER A HIGH ARCHED BEAM. THAT STARTED THE WHOLE THING, JESS.

VAL>> AND YOU WERE SO IMPRESSED YOU SAID, "I'VE GOT TO DOCUMENT THIS ON FILM"?

GIL GARCETTI>> WELL, I WENT TO GRAB MY SMALL CAMERA. I ALWAYS CARRY A CAMERA WITH ME. IT WASN'T THERE. SO I CAME THE NEXT DAY WITH TWO CAMERAS, THREE LENSES, PARKED ACROSS THE STREET AND WAS TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS. WHAT I SAW THESE GUYS DOING WAS SO INCREDIBLE. I MEAN, THEY'RE OUT THERE BALANCING THEMSELVES TRYING TO CONNECT THESE HUGE GEOMETRIC PIECES OF IRON. WHEN HE SWUNG WHAT THEY CALL HIS BEAMER, WHICH IS AN EIGHT-POUND SLEDGEHAMMER AND HE WENT "WHACK" AND THE WHOLE THING REVERBERATED, I SAID I WOULD HAVE KILLED MYSELF IF I'D HAVE DONE THAT. (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THESE PHOTOS, SINCE A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS, AND YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT. NOW DISNEY HALL, NEEDLESS TO SAY, DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT ANGLE IN IT ANYWHERE. WOW, THIS IS BEAUTIFUL.

JESS>> THAT MUST HAVE CAPTURED THE ARTIST'S EYE.

GIL GARCETTI>> OH, IT DID. I MEAN, HERE IT IS. THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN AROUND DECEMBER, BUT IT'S SHOWING MOST OF THE IRON. WHAT YOU SEE THERE -- EVEN THOUGH IT'S STEEL, WE REFER TO IT AS "IRON" -- THERE ARE OVER 12,000 PIECES OF IRON IN THERE AND NOT ONE PIECE IS THE SAME AS THE OTHER. THAT IS THE CHALLENGE FOR THE IRON WORKERS AND FOR THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS, FOR EVERYONE, BECAUSE FRANK GEHRY CAME UP WITH THIS MARVELOUS DESIGN, BUT THEN THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS HAD TO SAY, "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING." HERE IN THIS IMAGE -- AND YOU CAN SEE THE CITY HALL IN THE BACKGROUND -- BUT AGAIN, IT'S THAT IRON. THIS IS ALL GOING TO BE COVERED UP. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE ANY OF THIS --

VAL>> -- SO THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE TO TAKE PICTURES OF IT NOW BECAUSE YOU'D NEVER HAVE ACCESS TO THESE PICTURES AGAIN.

GIL GARCETTI>> AND I WANTED TO THANK -- AND HERE'S, YOU KNOW, A SIMILAR PIECE. YOU'LL NEVER SEE THIS BECAUSE IT WILL ALL BE COVERED UP. BUT SEE THOSE ANGLES THERE? I MEAN, INCREDIBLE ANGLES, INCREDIBLE LARGE PIECES OF IRON THAT THE --

JESS>> -- YOU'D THINK IT WOULD BE A CRAFTSMAN'S NIGHTMARE, BUT THESE MEN OBVIOUSLY ARE ENJOYING IT.

GIL GARCETTI>> THEY LOVE THE JOB. THERE WAS ONE WOMAN OUT THERE DOING IT TOO, OH YES. THEY SAID THIS IS A CHALLENGE LIKE WE'VE NEVER HAD BEFORE. FRANK GEHRY HAD THIS BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL OPPORTUNITY. YOU SEE THESE GUYS, YOU KNOW, JUST HANGING OUTSIDE AND THERE'S NOTHING BELOW THEM, JESS. I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS --

VAL>> -- WELL, THEY'RE STRAPPED IN. IN TERMS OF -- OH, THERE WE ARE. SO THEY ARE STRAPPED IN. I MEAN, IN TERMS OF SAFETY.

GIL GARCETTI>> THEY MUST HAVE A SAFETY STRAP. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T FALL. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T GET A HUGE BEAM KNOCKING THEIR JAW OUT. THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS OCCUPATIONS IN THE COUNTRY.

VAL>> HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THEM FALL?

GIL GARCETTI>> THANK GOODNESS, NO. THEY HAVE BEEN GREAT HERE DOING IT.

JESS>> LOOKING AT THESE SHOTS, YOU WERE DOING SOME CLIMBING YOURSELF.

GIL GARCETTI>> I WAS, I WAS. THANK GOODNESS, I RESPECT HEIGHTS, BUT I'M NOT AFRAID OF HEIGHTS.

JESS>> HOW DID THESE MEN AND WOMAN ACCEPT YOU?

GIL GARCETTI>> AT FIRST, THEY WEREN'T QUITE SURE. I HAD ONE PERSON COME UP TO ME AND SAY, "TAKE OFF YOUR SUNGLASSES. OH, YOU ARE GIL GARCETTI." (LAUGHTER) HE SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?" THEN AFTER A WHILE, BECAUSE I WAS GIVING THEM COPIES OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THEY HAD TAKEN HOME AND THEIR WIVES OR BOYFRIENDS OR WHATEVER HAD NEVER SEEN THEM BEFORE IN ACTION, SO TO SPEAK, AND THEY CAME BACK, "COULD I HAVE ANOTHER ONE?" (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> BECAUSE THEY'RE A VERY TIGHT UNION AND YOU COULDN'T JUST WALK ON AND START TAKING PICTURES.

GIL GARCETTI>> OH, NO. NO, YOU COULD NOT AT ALL. I MEAN, THIS IS A VERY TIGHT UNION. THE WHOLE SITE, YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. I MEAN, LOOK AT THIS SITE. HERE, THIS IS A 750,000-POUND CRANE THAT IS LIFTING THIS PIECE OF IRON. THIS IS NOT A PARTICULARLY LARGE PIECE OF IRON, BUT YOU HAVE THREE MEN WHO ARE WAITING FOR IT. THE PHONE MAN WHO IS COMMUNICATING WITH THE CRANE OPERATOR BECAUSE THE CRANE OPERATOR DOESN'T KNOW WHERE THE IRON IS, AND TWO MEN WAITING FOR IT TO COME DOWN AND THEN THEY HAVE TO "WORK THE IRON", MEANING THEY HAVE TO GET IT IN PLACE, BOLT IT IN AND THEN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE.

JESS>> IN TERMS OF HEIGHT, THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, A PARTICULARLY HIGH STRUCTURE THAT IRON WORKERS OFTEN WORK IN. BUT AT LEAST, IN THOSE SKYSCRAPERS, THEY ARE GENERALLY WORKING WITH SQUARED OBJECTS.

GIL GARCETTI>> RIGHT, AND THERE'S USUALLY SOMETHING UNDER THEM. HERE, THERE ISN'T. IT BENDS OUT TO 17 DEGREES. I MEAN, I'M BENDING OVER TAKING SOME OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, SO THERE'S LITERALLY NOTHING UNDER YOU. YOU'RE AS HIGH AS LIKE THIS MAN IS, ABOUT 120 FEET UP AT THIS POINT. I MEAN, YOU GO DOWN AND THERE'S NO COMING BACK FROM THIS.

VAL>> THOSE ARE WONDERFUL PHOTOGRAPHS.

GIL GARCETTI>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE MAIN THING I WANTED TO DO IS LET'S NOT FORGET THE TRADESPEOPLE, THE IRON WORKERS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MADE THIS POSSIBLE. FRANK GEHRY'S DREAM IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND HE WILL DESERVE AND GET ALL THE CREDIT, BUT IT WAS THE IRON WORKER WHO MADE THIS POSSIBLE. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO RISKED THEIR LIVES EVERY DAY GOING OUT THERE AND DOING WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE THE IMPOSSIBLE. BUT THEY DID IT AND THEY DO THIS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

JESS>> YOU SPECIFICALLY -- THIS IS ALL BLACK AND WHITE?

GIL GARCETTI>> ALL BLACK AND WHITE.

JESS>> WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THAT?

GIL GARCETTI>> IT IS WHAT I PREFER AND, FRANKLY WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, I THINK IT'S JUST A STRONGER IMAGE OF WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. WE'RE DEALING WITH IRON. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LITTLE RUST ON IT, THERE'S A BEAUTY. THE PHOTOGRAPHS THEMSELVES SOMETIMES DON'T SHOW ANY WORKERS, BUT THEY SHOW THE BEAUTIFUL GEOMETRY THAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS AND FRANK GEHRY PUT TOGETHER. I MEAN, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO KEEP OUR EYES OUT FOR, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT MAKE US SMILE. CERTAINLY, THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO MAKE US ALL SMILE.

VAL>> AND THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE GOING TO BECOME A BOOK, YES?

GIL GARCETTI>> THE BOOK IS GOING TO COME OUT IN SEPTEMBER. IT'S CALLED "IRON: ERECTING THE WALT DISNEY CONCERT HALL".

VAL>> SO THEY'LL BE GATHERED TOGETHER FOR EVERYONE TO REMEMBER.

GIL GARCETTI>> FOR EVERYONE, AND THE PROCEEDS ARE GOING TO GO TO A CHARITY. I'M NOT MAKING ANYTHING ON THIS. I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT. THE UNION AND I WILL WORK TOGETHER AND DECIDE WHICH CHARITY OR CHARITIES IT SHOULD GO TO. ORIGINALLY, IT WAS GOING TO GO TO NEW YORK. NEW YORK DOESN'T NEED ANY MORE MONEY, SO WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THE MONEY HERE IN LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> OH, FANTASTIC.

JESS>> WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO THAT.

VAL>> WONDERFUL CHOICE FOR A SECOND CAREER. (LAUGHTER)

GIL GARCETTI>> (LAUGHTER) IT'S BEEN GREAT THUS FAR. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY. IT'S BEEN MARVELOUS. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TAKE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS -- PEOPLE SAID, "YOU TOOK THESE PHOTOGRAPHS? BUT YOU WERE THE D.A." I SAID, "I KNOW, BUT WE ALL CAN REINVENT OURSELVES AT TIMES AND SOMETIMES WE'RE FORCED TO AND THAT'S OKAY TOO."

VAL>> MR. GARCETTI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

GIL GARCETTI>> THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT OPPORTUNITY. I DO LOVE YOUR NEW SET, BY THE WAY.

JESS>> AGAIN, THE NAME OF THE BOOK WILL BE "IRON: ERECTING THE WALT DISNEY CONCERT HALL". IT WILL BE AVAILABLE IN BOOK STORES TOWARD THE END OF THE SUMMER.

VAL>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. IF YOU WANT TO HEAR SOMETHING THAT YOU MISSED ON LIFE AND TIMES, YOU CAN CHECK IT OUT ON OUR WEBSITE. WE HAVE A WEEK'S WORTH OF SHOWS ON STREAMING AUDIO, WWW.KCET.ORG.

JESS>> FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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