3/6/02

LC020306

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> THE BILL SIMON JUGGERNAUT ROLLED OVER EVERYONE IN THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S RACE, BUT IS THIS POLITICAL NEOPHYTE READY TO TAKE ON GRAY DAVIS?

BILL SIMON>> WE NEED NOW TO BE INCLUSIVE AND TO REACH OUT AND TO BE UNITED AS REPUBLICANS IN ORDER TO BEAT THE DEMOCRATS.

VAL>> RICHARD RIORDAN GOT BATTERED FROM ALL SIDES AND HE'S STILL GOT HIS SIGHTS SET ON THE DEMOCRAT WHO COST HIM THE ELECTION.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> GRAY, YOU HAVE SAT TOO LONG. YOU HAVE FAILED CALIFORNIA TOO LONG. IN THE NAME OF GOD, IN THE NAME OF CALIFORNIA, GRAY DAVIS, JUST GO.

JESS>> FREE SPENDING WAS THE NAME OF THE GAME IN THE 2002 PRIMARY AND GRAY DAVIS SET THE RECORD WITH $10 MILLION DOLLARS ON THOSE ATTACK ADS AIMED AT RIORDAN. TONIGHT, BIG MONEY POLITICS. HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH?

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

SIX MONTHS AGO, BILL SIMON WAS BARELY A BLIP ON THE POLITICAL RADAR, BUT TONIGHT HE IS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR AND THIS MORNING SIMON GOT A GOOD LUCK PHONE CALL FROM AN IMPORTANT SUPPORTER, PRESIDENT BUSH.

BILL SIMON>> MR. PRESIDENT, I SO APPRECIATE YOUR CALL AND WE WOULD WELCOME YOU IN THE GOLDEN STATE WHENEVER YOU'RE AVAILABLE. (APPLAUSE)

GEORGE W. BUSH>> WELL, I TELL YOU WHAT, WE'LL GET IT DONE PRETTY QUICK, BILL, AND I'LL GET OUT THERE AS SOON AS I CAN. I'VE GOT A LOT OF FRIENDS OUT THERE, INCLUDING THE FOLKS YOU DEFEATED. RIORDAN AND JONES RAN A GOOD RACE. I KNOW THAT YOU'RE IN THE PROCESS OF HEALING WHATEVER WOUNDS EXIST AND I THINK THAT'S SMART. I KNOW YOU JOIN ME IN THANKING THEM FOR MAKING THE RACE. THEY'RE TWO VERY GOOD MEN AND YOU DESERVE TO BE CONGRATULATED FOR BEATING A FORMIDABLE FIELD. IT'S GOOD MOMENTUM GOING INTO THE GENERAL. I KNOW YOU CAN BEAT GRAY DAVIS AND I WANT TO HELP IN ANY WAY I CAN.

BILL SIMON>> MR. PRESIDENT, THANK YOU SO MUCH. (APPLAUSE)

VAL>> NOW THAT SIMON HAS WON, REPUBLICANS HAVE TO MAP OUT A STRATEGY FOR NOVEMBER. THEY BEGAN LAST NIGHT AS THE VOTES WERE STILL BEING COUNTED, BUT FIRST THEY TOOK TIME TO CELEBRATE. LEAH SANDERS HAS THIS REPORT FROM THE REPUBLICAN VICTORY PARTY.

BILL SIMON>> AND FOR THE VOTES OF CALIFORNIANS, I AM PLEASED TO ACCEPT THE NOMINATION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR THE GOVERNORSHIP OF CALIFORNIA. (APPLAUSE)

LEAH>> IT WAS A RACE FOR THE RECORD BOOKS, A STUNNING UPSET BY A POLITICAL NEWCOMER WHO'D NEVER EVEN VOTED IN A CALIFORNIA PRIMARY UNTIL YESTERDAY. AND BILL SIMON DIDN'T JUST BEAT THE ONE-TIME FRONT RUNNER, FORMER L.A. MAYOR, RICHARD RIORDAN. HE BURIED HIM ALONG WITH THE THIRD MAN IN THE RACE, SECRETARY OF STATE, BILL JONES.

BILL JONES>> THE JOURNEY THAT WE BEGAN OVER A YEAR AGO TO RENEW THE CALIFORNIA DREAM CONTINUES AND NOT JUST FOR ANOTHER EIGHT MONTHS, BUT FOR ANOTHER EIGHT MONTHS AND, AFTER THAT, EIGHT YEARS. (APPLAUSE)

LEAH>> SO MUCH FOR THE DAYS WHEN SIMON HAD TO BE PERSUADED TO RUN BY HIS OLD FRIEND, MAYOR RIORDAN. AT THE TIME, NEITHER OF THEM EVER DREAMED THEY'D WIND UP COMPETING FOR THE GOP NOMINATION NOR DID THEY EVER IMAGINE THEY'D SOMEDAY RAKE EACH OTHER OVER THE COALS WITH A SERIES OF BITTER ADS.

MATT JASON>> I THINK THEY BOTH DID WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY NEEDED TO DO TO WIN.

LEAH>> SIMON GOT LOTS OF HELP FROM AN UNLIKELY SOURCE, DEMOCRAT GRAY DAVIS WHO PUMMELED RIORDAN WITH A $10 MILLION DOLLAR MEDIA BLITZ THAT PORTRAYED THE FORMER MAYOR AS A FLIP-FLOPPER. RIORDAN CRIED FOUL AND TRIED TO FIGHT BACK, BUT EVEN HIS OWN SUPPORTERS FELT IT WAS TOO LITTLE TOO LATE. THE DAMAGE WAS DONE.

KIM SERAFIN>> I THINK WHAT OUR PROBLEM WAS IS THAT GRAY DAVIS WAS HIJACKING THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY AND IT WAS REALLY AN UNPRECEDENTED THING THAT HE WAS DOING. SO BASICALLY WHAT WE WERE DOING WAS WE WERE FIGHTING A THREE-FRONT WAR AND, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO SUFFERED FROM THE FACT THAT WE WERE THE FRONT RUNNERS, SO WE WERE UNDER REALLY TIGHT SCRUTINY FROM EVERYONE AND I THINK THAT CONTRIBUTED TO IT.

LEAH>> TODAY THE SIMON CAMPAIGN SAYS IT WASN'T THE DAVIS ADS, BUT THE MOMENTUM THEY GAINED AT THE STATE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION THAT PUT SIMON AHEAD AND THAT'S ALSO WHERE RIORDAN RAN INTO PROBLEMS WITH DIE-HARD PARTY MEMBERS.

SAL RUSSO>> THAT WAS THE TIME WHEN HE GOT INTO A LITTLE TIFF WITH GOVERNOR DEUKMEJIAN AND HIS REPUBLICAN CREDENTIALS WERE PRETTY MUCH QUESTIONED. THAT'S WHEN HIS NUMBERS REALLY CHANGED.

LEAH>> THE SIMON CAMP SAYS IT'S ALREADY POISED TO TAKE ON GRAY DAVIS, BUT WILL THE MODERATES WHO BACKED RIORDAN JUMP ON THE BANDWAGON? AND WILL THE CONSERVATISM THAT HELPED SIMON WIN THE PRIMARY PROVE TO BE A CURSE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION? RIORDAN SAYS THE ANSWERS ARE SIMPLE.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> BILL SIMON IS THE HOPE TO BRING GLORY BACK TO THE GOLDEN STATE. (APPLAUSE)

LEAH>> SIMON SAYS HE'S COUNTING ON SUPPORT FROM RIORDAN AND BILL JONES.

BILL SIMON>> DICK WAS RIGHT WHEN HE SPOKE EARLIER. WE NEED NOW TO BE INCLUSIVE AND TO REACH OUT AND TO BE UNITED AS REPUBLICANS IN ORDER TO BEAT THE DEMOCRATS. (APPLAUSE)

LEAH>> BUT A NUMBER OF RIORDAN SUPPORTERS WE SPOKE TO SAY THEY SEE A TOUGH ROAD AHEAD.

JEANNIE TRUJILLO>> AND IT'S SAD THAT WE HAVE TO WORK SO HARD. IT'S GOING TO BE THREE TIMES HARDER WORK FOR OURSELVES IN ORDER TO PUT SIMON IN OFFICE.

LEAH>> MEMBERS OF SIMON'S CAMP SAY ONCE PARTY MEMBERS SEE WHAT BILL SIMON IS ALL ABOUT, THERE'S NO DOUBT HE'LL GET THEIR SUPPORT.

BOB TAYLOR>> I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE VERY SURPRISED WHEN THEY PEEL BACK THE LAYER AND FIND OUT WHO BILL SIMON REALLY IS. HE'S SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO BE VERY INCLUSIVE AND HE'S GOING TO SURPRISE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH HIS INCLUSIVENESS. HE'S GOING TO APPEAL TO A BROAD RANGE OF CALIFORNIANS.

LEAH>> AND AS FOR THE STRATEGY TO BEAT INCUMBENT GRAY DAVIS, DON'T EXPECT MUCH OF A CHANGE FROM HOW THINGS WERE DONE IN THE PRIMARY. SIMON INSIDERS CLAIM THE FOCUS WILL REMAIN ON THE ECONOMY, EDUCATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT YOU COULD SEE MORE HELP FROM THE WHITE HOUSE WHICH HAS ITS EYES ON THE ELUSIVE GOLDEN STATE.

BILL SIMON>> PRESIDENT BUSH HAS ASSURED US HE'S BEHIND US A HUNDRED PERCENT IN THIS CAMPAIGN. (APPLAUSE)

JESS>> JOINING US NOW OUR POLITICAL ANALYST, KERMAN MADDOX, CINNY KENNARD, USC JOURNALISM PROFESSOR, AND OUR POLITICAL REPORTER FOR THIS PRIMARY SEASON AND VETERAN REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT, ALLAN HOFFENBLUM.

CINNY, YOU WERE AT THAT UNITY BREAKFAST THIS MORNING. WAS THERE UNITY?

CINNY KENNARD>> CERTAINLY, THE BEST FACE WAS PUT ON. YOU HAD RICHARD RIORDAN SORT OF THIS GRACIOUS LOSER COMING UP AND SAYING THAT HE WAS THE LUCKIEST PERSON IN THE WORLD WERE HIS FIRST REMARKS AND THE CROWD BASICALLY HAD A NERVOUS LAUGHTER WHEN HE MADE THAT REMARK THINKING THAT PERHAPS HE REALLY DID BELIEVE THAT, THAT HE NEVER HAD THE FIRE IN HIS BELLY AND REALLY DIDN'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT THAT JOB TO BEGIN WITH AND PERHAPS THAT WAS PART OF HIS CAMPAIGN. THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTIONING OF THAT GOING ON THIS MORNING.

MR. JONES THEN GOT UP THERE AND REALLY, INSTEAD OF RALLYING THE PARTY AROUND BILL SIMON, INSTEAD DELIVERED A SPEECH ON GETTING THE VOTE OUT AND HOW THE VOTER TURNOUT WAS SO LOW YESTERDAY AND THAT IN FACT, FOR THE NOVEMBER GENERAL ELECTION, PEOPLE REALLY NEEDED TO GET OUT TO VOTE. THEN, OF COURSE, YOU HAD THE WINNER, MR. SIMON, GET UP THERE AND TRY TO CALL ON MEMBERS OF THE PARTY TO COME TOGETHER AND GET BEHIND UNITY FOR NOVEMBER. IT WAS AN EFFORT. WAS IT A RESOUNDING UNITY CRY? I WOULDN'T SAY SO, NO.

VAL>> KERMAN AND AL, THIS HAS BEEN CALLED ONE FOR THE RECORD BOOKS IN TERMS OF SIMON'S VICTORY. WHY ARE THEY SAYING THAT?

KERMAN>> WELL, I THINK THEY'RE SAYING IT FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS. ONE, YOU SAW GRAY DAVIS GET VERY INVOLVED IN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY. HERE'S THE DEMOCRAT BASICALLY --

VAL>> -- THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE?

KERMAN>> I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN TO THIS DEGREE WHERE A GUY FROM THE OTHER PARTY SPENT $10 MILLION DOLLARS, IN ESSENCE, TO SELECT THE PERSON HE WANTED TO RUN AGAINST IN NOVEMBER AND I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE VERY HAPPY.

I THINK, EARLY ON, OUR GREATEST CONCERN AS DEMOCRATS WAS THE POSSIBILITY THAT GRAY DAVIS RUNS AGAINST RICHARD RIORDAN, A MODERATE REPUBLICAN. A LOT OF DEMOCRATS WOULD HAVE LEFT THE FOLD AND VOTED FOR RICHARD RIORDAN. I THINK NOW DEMOCRATS COME HOME BECAUSE GRAY DAVIS WILL DO EVERYTHING HE CAN TO PORTRAY BILL SIMON AS RIGHT-WING IDEOLOGUE OUT OF THE MAINSTREAM. WHEN GARRY SOUTH IS DONE WITH HIM, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THINK GRAY DAVIS IS RUNNING AGAINST PAT ROBERTSON, JERRY FALWELL, STROM THURMAN COMBINED INTO ONE.

VAL>> GARRY SOUTH BEING DAVIS'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER --

KERMAN>> CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> YEAH, HE'S GOING TO DEMONIZE HIM. UNFORTUNATELY FOR GARRY SOUTH, BILL SIMON IS NOT A DEMON. I BELIEVE BY THE NEXT THREE OR FOUR WEEKS WHEN HE GETS OUT THERE AND SHOWS HIMSELF TO THE CALIFORNIA ELECTORATE, IT'S NOT REALLY QUITE AS EASY, KERMAN, AS YOU MAKE IT OUT TO BE. BUT I GOT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. WHAT'S VERY STRANGE ABOUT THIS, THE REPUBLICANS NOMINATED SOMEONE ON TUESDAY THAT I, WHO'VE BEEN THIRTY YEARS IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS, NEVER EVEN HEARD OF UNTIL ABOUT SIX WEEKS AGO AND MOST PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA DO NOT KNOW.

I DO NOT BELIEVE, BY THE WAY, THEY'RE GOING TO LET SOME PAID POLITICAL CONSULTANT TOTALLY DEFINE BILL SIMON IN A VACUUM. BILL SIMON IS GOING TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO AROUND AND PROVE THAT HE'S REALLY ATTEMPTING TO BROADEN THE BASE NOT ONLY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, BUT THE ELECTORATE THAT HE KNOWS THAT HE HAS TO ACHIEVE TO BE ABLE TO BEAT GRAY DAVIS COME NOVEMBER. IF HE'S NOT CAPABLE OF DOING THAT, KERMAN, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. BUT BILL SIMON KNOWS HE CANNOT BECOME A CAPTIVE, A FACTION, OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. HE KNOWS HE CAN'T GET ELECTED BY ONLY GETTING CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN VOTES. WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE FROM NOW UNTIL NOVEMBER, PARTICULARLY I THINK IN THE NEXT THREE OR FOUR WEEKS, IS THAT HE REACHES OUT TO THOSE WHO DID NOT SUPPORT HIM AND HE'S GOING TO WORK VERY HARD TO BE ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER A WINNING COALITION.

KERMAN>> I THINK THE BEST THING YOU GUYS HAVE GOING FOR YOU IS GRAY DAVIS HAS TO MAKE A LOT OF DIFFICULT BUDGET-RELATED DECISIONS BETWEEN NOW AND JUNE. WE HAVE ABOUT A $17 BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT. IF HE MAKES SOME DIFFICULT AND WRONG DECISIONS AND ALIENATES A LOT OF INDEPENDENTS, THAT GIVES SIMON A BREAK. IF HE HANDLES THAT WELL, I THINK YOU GUYS ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE. I THINK THE DEMOCRATS REMAIN HOME, THE INDEPENDENTS COME OUR WAY AND, BASED ON SHEER NUMBERS, JUST NOT ENOUGH REPUBLICANS OUT THERE IF GRAY DOESN'T STUMBLE BETWEEN NOW AND JUNE ON BUDGET-RELATED MATTERS.

VAL>> AND EIGHT MONTHS IS A LONG TIME.

CINNY KENNARD>> LET ME JUST PUNCTUATE WHAT ALLAN SAID. WHAT A DIFFERENCE THREE WEEKS MAKES. YOU HAD A DIFFERENT BILL SIMON LAST NIGHT AND THIS MORNING. VICTORY, OF COURSE, BEING A HELPFUL BOOST. HE WAS SPEAKING WITH NO NOTES LAST NIGHT. HE CHARMED THE CROWD IN THAT ROOM LAST NIGHT. HE HAD A VERY ATTENTIVE AUDIENCE THIS MORNING. HE'S IMPROVED AS A CANDIDATE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. HE'S GROWN AS A CANDIDATE. HE STAYS ON MESSAGE. HE'S BEING FED CERTAIN LINES TO DEFINE GOVERNOR DAVIS. HE'S SAYING THAT THIS WILL BE A REFERENDUM ON THE GOVERNOR. HE IS HITTING STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH THE BUDGET, AS KERMAN MENTIONED. HE IS HITTING STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH ENERGY, THE SCHOOLS, ALL THE ISSUES THAT HE CLAIMS VOTERS WANT TO HEAR ABOUT AND HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT. THIS MAN HAS MATURED IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS AS A CANDIDATE.

VAL>> OKAY. IF THOSE ARE SIMON'S STRENGTHS, WHAT'S HIS ACHILLES HEEL?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> WELL, HIS ACHILLES HEEL IS HE COULD BE ACCUSED OF BEING SOME RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN, SORT OF A RICH DAN LUNGREN. AND GARRY SOUTH, WHO IS THE POLITICAL DIRECTOR OF GRAY DAVIS'S CAMPAIGN, COULD --

VAL>> -- HOW ABOUT WESTERN SAVINGS AND LOAN AND THE $90 MILLION DOLLARS --

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> -- OH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE ISSUES LIKE THAT AND VOTERS ARE GOING TO MAKE UP THEIR MINDS. BUT ONE OF THE REASONS BILL SIMON IS THERE, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, IS THAT $10 MILLION DOLLAR CAMPAIGN AGAINST DICK RIORDAN. BY THE WAY, --

JESS>> -- AND RUDY GIULIANI'S SUPPORT.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> AND RUDY GIULIANI'S SUPPORT. BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THE RIORDAN CAMPAIGN WAS A HOUSE OF CARDS. I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT DICK RIORDAN THOUGHT HE COULD BYPASS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND PUT TOGETHER A NOVEMBER MESSAGE THAT ANNOYED THE REPUBLICANS. BILL SIMON DID NOT AND, WHEN THE CARDS FELL, THERE WAS BILL SIMON TO PICK UP THE PIECES AND GET THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION.

JESS>> THE SHOCKING THING WAS YOU MENTIONED THREE WEEKS. IN THREE WEEKS, THE RIORDAN CAMPAIGN WENT INTO FREE-FALL.

VAL>> INCREDIBLE.

KERMAN>> I THINK THEY LOST SOMETHING LIKE THIRTY POINTS.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> BUT DON'T UNDER-ESTIMATE A REPUBLICAN WHO WENT FROM TWO PERCENT IN THE POLLS TO 49 PERCENT. (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, POLITICS CAN BE A NASTY BUSINESS, AS YOU KNOW. JUST LOOK AT COMPTON. THE NEW MAYOR CARRIED A GUN DURING THE CAMPAIGN. NOW HE'S WORRIED ABOUT BEING TARGETED BY SUPPORTERS OF THE FORMER MAYOR, OMAR BRADLEY.

ERIC PERRODIN>> THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM THE BRADLEY CAMP WHO HAVE BEEN SENT TO PRISON. THERE'S A LOT OF GANG MEMBERS AROUND HIS CAMP. I'M A FORMER POLICE OFFICER. I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY A GUN.

JESS>> DEMOCRATS CERTAINLY AREN'T GOING TO ALLOW BILL SIMON VERY MUCH TIME TO SAVOR HIS PRIMARY VICTORY. THE DAVIS CAMPAIGN PLANS TO AIR ADS ATTACKING THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE BY THE END OF THIS WEEK.

VAL>> IN THE MEANTIME, SIMON HAS ALREADY STARTED MENDING FENCES WITH HIS TWO PRIMARY OPPONENTS, FORMER L.A. MAYOR, RICHARD RIORDAN, AND SECRETARY OF STATE, BILL JONES. THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF HARD FEELINGS AT THIS MORNING'S GOP UNITY BREAKFAST, AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER. THE FORMER POLITICAL ENEMIES JOINED HANDS AND VOWED THAT WHATEVER DIFFERENCES THEY HAD BEFORE ARE FORGOTTEN. THEIR GOAL: BEATING GRAY DAVIS.

BILL JONES>> BILL SIMON HAS THE OPPORTUNITY AND I BELIEVE HE CAN DELIVER THAT MESSAGE AND WE HAVE A TARGET. LET ME TELL YOU, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GRAY DAVIS AND OUR REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS OVER THE YEARS -- AND I'VE SERVED WITH MOST EVERYONE OF THEM -- IS THAT GRAY DAVIS ALWAYS WANTED TO BE GOVERNOR, BUT HE REALLY NEVER WANTED TO GOVERN.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS SEAN WALSH, WHO WAS DIRECTOR OF THE BILL JONES FOR GOVERNOR CAMPAIGN. VERY DISAPPOINTING, OBVIOUSLY, FOR YOUR CANDIDATE.

SEAN WALSH>> IT IS.

JESS>> BUT HARDLY UNEXPECTED. HE DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY. HE DIDN'T HAVE THE EXPOSURE. WHAT WERE HIS CHANCES?

SEAN WALSH>> WELL, THE OLD SAYING IS, "NO BUCKS, NO BUCK ROGERS". YOU REALLY, IN THIS DAY AND AGE, NEED TO HAVE MONEY TO SUBSTANTIALLY BE ON TELEVISION. THE DIFFERENCE WAS, AS ALLAN SAID IN THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT, DICK RIORDAN BASICALLY DIDN'T RUN AGAINST BILL JONES NOR DID HE RUN AGAINST BILL SIMON. HE RAN AGAINST HIGH PROPENSITY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS WHO, EARLY ON, WERE WILLING TO TOLERATE HIM, BUT BASICALLY AFTER HE STUCK HIS FINGER IN THEIR EYE LONG ENOUGH, ABANDONED HIM.

BILL SIMON HAD THE GIULIANI AD, AS YOU MENTIONED. PEOPLE LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID, OH, HERE'S A NICE YOUNG MAN. RUDY LIKES HIM. HE'S A BUSINESS GUY AND WE NEED A BUSINESS GUY TO FIX THE PROBLEMS WITH THE STATE. SO BECAUSE BILL SIMON HAD THAT MONEY ON THE AIR, HE WAS ABLE TO RISE. BILL JONES HAD NO MONEY TO BE ON TV AND SO WE STAYED FLAT THE ENTIRE WAY.

VAL>> SEAN, YOUR OLD BOSS WAS PETE WILSON. PETE WILSON IS STILL, TO THIS DAY, BLAMED FOR THE DETERIORATION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN CALIFORNIA. HIS CAMPAIGN AGAINST IMMIGRANTS AND FOR PROP 187 AND SO FORTH HAS STILL TARNISHED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S REPUTATION THAT BILL JONES AND OTHERS ARE NOW TRYING TO REPAIR.

SEAN WALSH>> WELL, YOU HAVE IT A HUNDRED PERCENT WRONG.

VAL>> OH, RIGHT?

SEAN WALSH>> IT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE. ACTUALLY, PETE WILSON COULD SAVE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN CALIFORNIA TODAY AND I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT MR. SIMON ADOPT PETE WILSON'S TOUGH, FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE PHILOSOPHIES AND POLICIES.

JESS>> HIS VIEWS ON IMMIGRATION?

SEAN WALSH>> AND HIS SOCIALLY MODERATE VIEWS -- WELL, MR. SIMON HAS ALREADY DEFINED HIS -- WELL, FIRST THINGS FIRST. PETE WILSON WAS VERY PRO LEGAL IMMIGRATION. HE JUST HAD A PROBLEM WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. MR. SIMON, I BELIEVE, HAS COME OUT AND PUBLICLY SAID HE WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF PROPOSITION 187, SO THAT ISSUE IS OFF THE TABLE. HE NEEDS TO TAKE THE ISSUE OF CHOICE AND ABORTION OFF THE TABLE AS WELL AND GO RIGHT --

VAL>> -- SIMON DOES?

SEAN WALSH>> -- SIMON. AND GO RIGHT TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, WHICH IS THE ENERGY CRISIS AND THE $12 BILLION DOLLARS THAT IS LOOMING OUT THERE THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE FINANCED.

JESS>> DO YOU THINK GRAY DAVIS COULD POSSIBLY LET HIM TAKE THOSE THINGS OFF THE TABLE? HE'S GOING TO KEEP THEM ON THE TABLE FROM THE BEGINNING.

SEAN WALSH>> JESS, HERE'S WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN. RIGHT NOW, AS EVERYBODY SAID, SIMON CAME OUT OF NOWHERE IN THE LAST TWO OR THREE WEEKS. HE IS AN EMPTY VESSEL, FOR THE MOST PART. A BLANK SLATE TO THE BROAD ELECTORATE IN CALIFORNIA. HE NEEDS TO IMMEDIATELY, IMMEDIATELY GO ON THE AIR AND START DEFINING HIMSELF AND DEFINING DAVIS BECAUSE THESE TWO GENTLEMEN, AS YOUR ANALYSTS SAID, DAVIS WILL BE UPPING THE ADS. I'D BET YOU HE'S UP TOMORROW AND HE WILL POUND BILL SIMON WITH $30 MILLION DOLLARS FOR WEEK AFTER WEEK AFTER WEEK AND HE WILL DEFINE BILL SIMON. SO BILL SIMON MUST AGGRESSIVELY GO ON THE ATTACK NOW AND DEFINE HIMSELF.

VAL>> I UNDERSTAND THE NEGATIVE ADS ARE ALREADY BEING PRODUCED AND READY TO GO ON THE AIR AGAINST SIMON. SO IS THIS GOING TO BE JUST CONSTANT MUDSLINGING FOR THE NEXT EIGHT MONTHS?

SEAN WALSH>> WELL, GRAY DAVIS HAS $30 MILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER. AGAIN, A MARCH PRIMARY, IT'S NOT A LONG MARCH BETWEEN MARCH AND NOVEMBER. A LOT OF THINGS CAN HAPPEN. THE BUDGET IS GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC --

VAL>> -- I'M SORRY, DAVIS HAS $30 MILLION?

SEAN WALSH>> DAVIS HAS $30 MILLION DOLLARS AND I --

VAL>> -- HOW MUCH DOES SIMON HAVE?

SEAN WALSH>> SIMON HAS HOWEVER MUCH HE WANTS TO BASICALLY WRITE OUT OF HIS OWN PERSONAL FORTUNE.

JESS>> HE CERTAINLY IS NOT WITHOUT PERSONAL FUNDS.

SEAN WALSH>> HE IS NOT.

JESS>> MULTI-MILLIONAIRE.

SEAN WALSH>> AND I THINK THE REPUBLICANS WILL GALVANIZE AND PROVIDE RESOURCES FOR HIM. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, HE CANNOT WAIT, NOT ONE DAY, NOT ONE HOUR. HE HAS GOT TO BE PREPARED FOR THE COUNTER-RESPONSE AD FOR DAVIS THAT I THINK WILL PROBABLY GO UP AS EARLY AS TOMORROW.

JESS>> AND YOUR MAN, JONES, WILL HE PARTICIPATE ACTIVELY IN THIS CAMPAIGN?

SEAN WALSH>> MR. JONES HAS BEEN THE SINGLE STRONGEST REPUBLICAN ON TAKING THE ISSUES OF THE ENERGY CRISIS AND THE BUDGET FAILURE ON DAVIS TO GOVERNOR DAVIS. HE'S THE ONE WHO EXPOSED THE TEN PEOPLE WHO HAD THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND HAD THEM FIRED. HE WILL, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, POUND ON GRAY DAVIS'S PROBLEMS AND THAT GOT MR. SIMON --

JESS>> -- IF HE'D HAD $10 MILLION DOLLARS IN THE BANK, WOULD HE BE THE NOMINEE?

SEAN WALSH>> IF HE HAD $3 MILLION TO PUT UP IN THE AIR IN THE LAST MONTH, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. IN MY VIEW, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE NOMINEE, ABSOLUTELY. OUR POLLS SHOWED A SPIKE TOWARDS US WHEN MR. RIORDAN STARTED TO COLLAPSE. OUR SPIKE WENT UP AND IT WENT RIGHT BACK DOWN BECAUSE WE HAD NOTHING UP TO EDUCATE THE BROAD-BASED ELECTORATE WHO WERE PAYING ATTENTION IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS.

VAL>> BUT WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT OUR SYSTEM WHEN REALLY MANY PEOPLE DID FEEL THAT, AS FAR AS EXPERIENCE GOES, BILL JONES WAS BY FAR THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE, BUT HE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY. WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT OUR SYSTEM AND DO YOU THINK IT NEEDS REFORM?

SEAN WALSH>> WELL, BILL JONES IS ONE OF THE FOREMOST PROPONENTS OF CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM AND ELECTION REFORM, BUT --

JESS>> -- ESPECIALLY NOW.

SEAN WALSH>> BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS -- AND HE'LL TELL YOU THIS -- THAT THE RULES ARE WHAT THEY ARE. SO WE HAVE A FINANCING SYSTEM AND THE COURTS HAVE RULED THAT, IF YOU'VE GOT YOUR OWN MONEY, YOU CAN SPEND YOUR OWN MONEY FOR FREE SPEECH. SO HE KNOWS THE RULES BEFORE HE GOT INTO THE RACE. I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT IT'S A BIT DARWINIAN. SO YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A GOOD MESSAGE, YOU'VE GOT TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO THE VOTERS, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE MONEY. WE DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY AND IT'S A CRUEL WORLD OUT THERE IN POLITICS, BUT DARWIN WIPES OUT THOSE WHO DON'T COMPETE AND HAVE THE SPECIALTY. WE DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY AND SO WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL.

JESS>> IN SPITE OF HIM BEING A DECENT, HONORABLE MAN, WELL-LIKED, WELL-RESPECTED, JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY.

SEAN WALSH>> HE DIDN'T, BUT, JESS, WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO NOW, AND ANY POLITICIAN WHO WANTS TO RUN FOR HIGHER OFFICE, YOU HAVE TO START FOUR YEARS OUT AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS. YOU'VE GOT TO SAY YOU NEED TO INVEST IN ME BECAUSE I'VE GOT A FUTURE AND I'M GOING TO TAKE THE STATE SOMEPLACE. YOU CAN'T SHOW UP WITH NO MONEY YEAR OUT AND EXPECT TO COMPETE AGAINST GUYS WHO CAN WRITE UNLIMITED CAMPAIGN CHECKS.

VAL>> SEAN WALSH WITH THE BILL JONES CAMPAIGN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

SEAN WALSH>> NICE TO BE HERE.

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JESS>> WE'VE BEEN TALKING DOLLARS, MILLIONS OF THEM. WHAT WERE THE DECIDING FACTORS IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION? DID THE VOTERS MAKE CHOICES BASED ON THE ISSUES, ON A CANDIDATE'S PERSONAL APPEAL, OR WAS IT, IN THE FINAL ANALYSIS, MONEY?

VAL>> AS WE MENTIONED, GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS SPENT $10 MILLION DOLLARS ON ADS TARGETING RICHARD RIORDAN, MORE THAN BILL SIMON AND BILL JONES COMBINED. HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH WHEN IT COMES TO BIG MONEY IN POLITICS AND IS THERE ANY WAY TO PUT ON THE BRAKES?

JESS>> WE'RE JOINED NOW BY ROY ULRICH FROM THE POLITICAL WATCHDOG GROUP, COMMON CAUSE. DOES THIS PRIMARY REINFORCE WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING ABOUT THE SYSTEM FOR SOME TIME?

ROY ULRICH>> SEAN WALSH SAID IT BEST. YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY TO WIN AND WE'VE SEEN SELF-FUNDED CANDIDATES -- THIS IS THE BOTHERSOME PART TO ME. IT USED TO BE SAID THAT, IF YOU'RE SELF-FUNDED, IT DIDN'T NECESSARILY BUY YOU AN ELECTION, BUT NOW WE HAVE SELF-FUNDED WEALTHY CANDIDATES COMING OUT OF NOWHERE. NOW THE NOMINEES OF THE PARTY NOT JUST FOR GOVERNOR ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, BUT THE CONTROLLER ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE.

JESS>> NOT TRUE WITH GRAY DAVIS. HE'S NOT SELF-FUNDED.

ROY ULRICH>> NO, HE'S NOT.

VAL>> BILL SIMON IS PROBABLY THE SINGLE STRONGEST EXAMPLE OF SOMEBODY WHO CAME FROM NOWHERE AND USED HIS OWN MONEY TO PROPEL HIMSELF TO BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR GOVERNOR.

ROY ULRICH>> RIGHT. WE HAD IT IN JERSEY LAST YEAR WITH JOHN CORZINE. WE HAD IT IN THE NEW YORK MAYORAL RACE WITH MICHAEL BLOOMBERG. WE'RE SEEING SELF-FUNDED CANDIDATES, WEALTHY PEOPLE, RUN FOR OFFICE AND BASICALLY THE VOTER SAYS, WELL, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T VOTE FOR ANYBODY WHO'S LIKE ME, SO THEY STAY AWAY FROM THE POLLS. I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS YOU SEE VOTER TURNOFF. YOU'RE SEEING MORE SELF-FUNDED CANDIDATES, WHICH MEANS THE AVERAGE VOTER FEELS DISASSOCIATED WITH THE PROCESS.

JESS>> DOES THAT ANALYSIS UNDER-ESTIMATE BILL SIMON? HE'S AN ATTRACTIVE CANDIDATE. HE'S WELL-SPOKEN. HE HAD RUDY GIULIANI'S SUPPORT AND MANY VOTERS COMING TO THE POLLS WHO WERE QUESTIONED ABOUT WHY THEY VOTED CITE RUDY GIULIANI'S SUPPORT OF BILL SIMON.

ROY ULRICH>> OH, I WOULDN'T UNDER-ESTIMATE BILL SIMON. HE WILL MATCH GRAY DAVIS DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR DURING THIS EIGHT-MONTH INSUFFERABLY LONG TIME, AND THIS WILL BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE GENERAL ELECTION FOR GOVERNOR IN THE HISTORY OF CALIFORNIA. I FEEL VERY SAFE SAYING THAT.

VAL>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE WHO SAY, WELL, IF A CANDIDATE USES HIS OR HER OWN PERSONAL WEALTH, THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BEHOLDING TO SPECIAL INTERESTS WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED THAT MONEY. THEY ARE ACTUALLY MORE POLITICALLY INDEPENDENT THAN, SAY, THEIR COUNTERPART --

ROY ULRICH>> -- THEY ARE, VAL. THEY'RE MORE INDEPENDENT, BUT IF WE HAD LIMITS ON CONTRIBUTIONS AND WE MATCHED IT WITH PUBLIC FINANCING, THEN WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT ABOUT THE SELF-FUNDED CANDIDATE BEING FREE OF SPECIAL INTERESTS.

COMMON CAUSE BELIEVES, AND I BELIEVE, THAT WE DON'T WANT SPECIAL INTEREST CANDIDATES AND WEALTHY CANDIDATES SHOULDN'T BE STOPPED FROM ENTERING THE RACE, BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO MATCH THOSE WEALTHY CANDIDATES WITH PUBLIC FINANCING. EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE EQUAL ACCESS TO THE AIRWAVES AND ELSEWHERE AND THE CAMPAIGN OUGHT TO BE ON AN EQUAL FOOTING.

JESS>> CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM IS ON EVERYBODY'S LIST, CERTAINLY IN WASHINGTON AS WELL AS IN CALIFORNIA.

ROY ULRICH>> RIGHT.

JESS>> IS WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED GOING TO RESOLVE THE PROBLEM?

ROY ULRICH>> WELL, IT IS A START. THE SHAYS-MEEHAN BILL, WHICH WILL BE GETTING A VOTE ON IT IN THE SENATE WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, IS A START. BUT MONEY IS LIKE WATER IN POLITICS. IF YOU BRIDGE THE DIKE SOMEPLACE, THEY'LL FIND ANOTHER PLACE FOR IT, BUT IT'S A START.

VAL>> BESIDES, ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL, THAT WOULDN'T EFFECT THE GOVERNOR IN CALIFORNIA. THAT WOULD --

ROY ULRICH>> -- NO. IN FACT, WE HAVE MADE SOFT MONEY A -- WE'VE LEGALIZED SOFT MONEY IN CALIFORNIA IN PROP 34. WITH THE SOFT MONEY, THE VERY THING THEY'RE TRYING TO ELIMINATE IN WASHINGTON, PROP 34 ALLOWS AND YOU WILL SEE TONS OF SOFT MONEY COMING INTO THE CAMPAIGN.

VAL>> WELL, HOW MIGHT YOU SEE IT?

ROY ULRICH>> WELL, YOU SEE THE PARTIES SPENDING MONEY ON BEHALF OF NOT JUST STATEWIDE CANDIDATES, BUT ASSEMBLY AND --

VAL>> -- IN THE FORM OF THESE "ISSUE ADS"? IS THAT HOW IT WILL SHOW UP?

ROY ULRICH>> WELL, NO, THE PARTIES WILL MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE CAMPAIGN AND THE PARTY WILL SPEND THE MONEY. THE ISSUE ADS COME FROM WHAT ARE CALLED INDEPENDENT EXPENDITURES. THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE INTERESTS IN SACRAMENTO, THE TRIAL LAWYERS, THE PRISON GUARDS, THE REAL ESTATE INTERESTS, THE SECURITY INTERESTS. THEY SPEND MONEY AND WE SAW THAT HAPPEN, BY THE WAY, IN THE ASSEMBLY AND SENATE RACES. WE SAW HUGE AMOUNTS OF WHAT ARE CALLED INDEPENDENT EXPENDITURES NOT ON BEHALF OF CANDIDATES, NOT IN COORDINATION WITH THE CAMPAIGNS, BUT THESE ADS WERE ON THE AIR IN VERY IMPORTANT ASSEMBLY AND SENATE SEATS AROUND THE STATE.

JESS>> AND THEIR DEFENSE IS FIRST AMENDMENT?

ROY ULRICH>> ABSOLUTELY.

JESS>> ROY ULRICH, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US THIS EVENING.

VAL>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OR HEAR THE AUDIO OF RECENT LIFE AND TIMES PROGRAMS ON OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG. CHECK IT OUT.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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