3/19/02

LC020319

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> ALL SIDES CLAIM THE BATTLE OVER L.A.'S POLICE CHIEF SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT RACE, BUT IT'S SHAPING UP THAT WAY WITHIN THE RANKS OF THE LAPD.

RONNIE CATO>> IT'S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY IS TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE CHIEF SO THEY CAN HAVE AN HISPANIC CHIEF.

ART PLACENCIA>> I COULD CARE LESS IF HE WAS BLUE OR PINK OR YELLOW. WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS LEADERSHIP.

VAL>> TONIGHT WE'LL GET A RESPONSE FROM THE CHIEF HIMSELF. BERNARD PARKS IS HERE LIVE WITH THE LATEST ON HIS BID FOR A SECOND TERM AND HE'LL TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS ON THE LIFE AND TIMES CALL-IN LINE.

JESS>> ALSO, PATT MORRISON IS WONDERING WHETHER IT'S TIME TO HOOK UP UNCLE SAM TO A LIE DETECTOR.

PATT>> REMEMBER THOSE THREE BIG LIES? NO SURPRISE AT LEAST ONE OF THEM INVOLVED THE GOVERNMENT. THE FEDERAL LICENSE TO FIB, ON TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> PLUS, THE CONTROVERSY OVER GAY ADOPTION. WE'LL TALK TO THE NEW HEAD OF THE ACLU ABOUT A FLORIDA CASE THAT COULD HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT NATIONWIDE.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> GAY AND LESBIAN RIGHTS ARE PART OF THE BROADER AGENDA FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY. IT'S NOT A SMALL ISSUE AT THE MARGIN. IT'S REALLY AT THE FRONT AND CENTER, THE CORE SET OF OUR CONCERNS, BECAUSE THE LESBIAN AND GAY COMMUNITY STILL DOES NOT HAVE BASIC RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY.

VAL>> GAY COUPLES AND THE CHILDREN THEY STRUGGLE TO ADOPT. THE ACLU'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR WEIGHS IN ON THE FIGHT.

JESS>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

IF YOU DISCOUNT ALL THE EMOTION AND THE POLITICS, THE BATTLE OVER L.A.'S POLICE CHIEF IS A FAIRLY SIMPLE PERSONNEL MATTER. HAS BERNARD PARKS PERFORMED WELL ENOUGH TO DESERVE A SECOND FIVE-YEAR TERM? BUT, OF COURSE, THERE'S NOTHING SIMPLE ABOUT THIS STRUGGLE AND, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, THE DEBATE OVER CHIEF PARKS' FUTURE CENTERS AROUND RACE.

VAL>> AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE COME TO HIS DEFENSE WHILE THE MOSTLY WHITE POLICE UNION HAS SAID IT'S TIME FOR PARKS TO GO. NOW LATINO OFFICERS ARE SPEAKING OUT AND, AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, THEY HAVE FEW WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT FOR THE CHIEF.

PHILIP>> THE BATTLE DIDN'T START OUT ABOUT RACE, BUT LIKE SO MANY STRUGGLES INVOLVING THE LAPD, IT'S BECOME ABOUT RACE. A CONTROVERSY ABOUT LOTS OF THINGS, BUT OFTEN BOILS DOWN TO A SIMPLE MATTER OF BLACK AND WHITE. AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO REGARD BERNARD PARKS AS A BUFFER AGAINST OVER-ZEALOUS COPS HAVE RALLIED TO HIS SIDE AND THEY BRANDED A FORMER FRIEND A TRAITOR FOR SAYING IT'S TIME FOR PARKS TO GO.

JAMES HAHN>> I'VE INFORMED THE POLICE COMMISSION PRESIDENT, RICK CARUSO, THAT I DO NOT SUPPORT CHIEF PARKS' REAPPOINTMENT AS CHIEF OF POLICE. THE CHIEF AND I HAVE HAD REAL DIFFERENCES ON MAJOR ISSUES: POLICE REFORM, RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION, AND COMMUNITY POLICING.

PHILIP>> BUT NOW ANOTHER PLAYER HAS ENTERED THE FRAY, ADDING TO AN ALREADY RACIALLY-CHARGED ATMOSPHERE. THE 600-MEMBER LATIN AMERICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT ASSOCIATION SAYS IT HAS NO CONFIDENCE IN THE CHIEF.

ART PLACENCIA>> OUR MEMBERSHIP FEELS THAT THEY CAN'T SUPPORT THE CHIEF ANYMORE. THE MAIN REASON BEING IS THAT THEY FEEL THAT HE'S NOT CONCERNED WITH THEIR CONCERNS WHICH ARE THE COMPRESSED WORK SCHEDULE, THE DISCIPLINE SYSTEM, AND JUST HIS GENERAL ATTITUDE OF THEY FEEL THAT HE HAS A LACK OF RESPECT FOR THE RANK AND FILE.

PHILIP>> UNTIL NOW, LATINOS HAVEN'T BEEN VOCAL PLAYERS IN POLICE POLITICS, BUT THAT MAY BE CHANGING ACCORDING TO CAL STATE FULLERTON POLITICAL SCIENTIST, RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN.

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> AND SINCE EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THE LATINO COMMUNITY IS A BIG UP AND COMING PLAYER IN LOS ANGELES POLITICS, THE ENTRY OF THE LATINO OFFICERS INTO THIS DEBATE IS QUITE SIGNIFICANT. IT ALSO MEANS IT'S NOT SO CLEARLY GOING TO BE CAST AS A MINORITY VERSUS WHITE ISSUE, BUT HAVE MORE COMPLEX DIMENSIONS TO IT.

PHILIP>> BUT RONNIE CATO, THE HEAD OF THE OSCAR JOEL BRYANT FOUNDATION, A BLACK OFFICER ASSOCIATION THAT SUPPORTS CHIEF PARKS, SAYS RACE AND ETHNICITY ARE WHAT THE FIGHT IS ALL ABOUT.

RONNIE CATO>> THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY IS TRYING TO UNDERMINE THE CHIEF SO THEY CAN HAVE AN HISPANIC CHIEF. IT'S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. THAT'S WHY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEIR FACTS, THE REASONS WHY THEY DID NOT WANT TO SUPPORT THE CHIEF, OR THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T SUPPORT THE CHIEF, NONE OF THEM WERE FACTUAL.

ART PLACENCIA>> I COULD CARE LESS IF HE WAS BLUE OR PINK OR YELLOW. WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS LEADERSHIP.

PHILIP>> THE LATINO OFFICERS AGREE WITH CATO ON ONE POINT. HIS SUPPORT FOR PARKS IS BASED ON RACE.

ART PLACENCIA>> PROBABLY THE ONLY REASON THAT HE'S SUPPORTING THE CHIEF IS BECAUSE HE'S AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND THEY WANT AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN CHIEF.

PHILIP>> CATO ADMITS AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH PARKS. HE SAYS IT'S BECAUSE THE CHIEF IS OPEN TO CITIZEN COMPLAINTS AND HOLDS OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE.

RONNIE CATO>> NOW WE HAVE PARKS. NOW THE COMMUNITY MORALE IS AT THE HIGHEST AND THE POLICE OFFICERS' IS AT THE LOWEST. WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE NOW OFFICERS ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY DO TO THE COMMUNITY AND THAT IS WHAT THE MORALE PROBLEM REALLY IS.

PHILIP>> BUT THE LATINO POLICE GROUP SAYS MANY OF THOSE CITIZEN COMPLAINTS THAT PARKS ASSIGNS INVESTIGATORS TO ARE FRIVOLOUS.

ALEXANDER ORTIZ>> YOU HAVE SUPERVISORS SPENDING 40, 60, 80, 120 HOURS INVESTIGATING SOME OF THESE FRIVOLOUS COMPLAINTS AND THEY'RE GOING NOWHERE. SO WE'RE WASTING MONEY, WE'RE KEEPING THE SUPERVISOR OFF THE STREET. BECAUSE THEY ARE FRIVOLOUS COMPLAINTS, MORALE IS GETTING LOWER AND LOWER AND LOWER.

PHILIP>> THE ARGUMENTS GO BACK AND FORTH USUALLY ALONG ETHNIC LINES. LATINOS COMPLAIN THERE AREN'T ENOUGH HISPANIC OFFICERS IN LAPD'S UPPER RANKS.

ART PLACENCIA>> WE HAVE ONE DEPUTY CHIEF OUT OF EIGHT. WE HAVE THREE COMMANDERS AND WE HAVE NINE CAPTAINS OUT OF 69.

PHILIP>> BLACK OFFICERS CLAIM THERE'S PLENTY OF DIVERSITY FOR THOSE WILLING TO OPEN THEIR EYES.

RONNIE CATO>> WHEN CHIEF PARKS CAME IN, IF YOU LOOKED AT IT, DIVERSITY HAS JUST BLOOMED IN THIS DEPARTMENT. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ONLY FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS. I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR HISPANICS, I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR WOMEN, FOR ASIANS.

PHILIP>> CATO CLAIMS THE LATINO OFFICERS' GROUP IS CLOSELY TIED TO THE WHITE-DOMINATED POLICE UNION, THE POLICE PROTECTIVE LEAGUE, WHICH HAS LONG OPPOSED THE CHIEF, BUT RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN SEES IT DIFFERENTLY. HE THINKS THE LEAGUE'S POWER MAY DIMINISH NOW THAT OTHERS HAVE JOINED THE FIGHT.

RAPHAEL SONENSHEIN>> WE'RE GOING TO HEAR A LOT MORE FROM BLACK OFFICERS NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE PARKS REAPPOINTMENT AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HEAR A GREAT DEAL NOW FROM THE LATINO OFFICERS NO MATTER WHICH WAY THIS GOES.

JESS>> REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING WITHIN THE LAPD, BERNARD PARKS CLEARLY HAS STRONG SUPPORT ACROSS THE CITY. A NEW LOS ANGELES TIMES POLL SHOWS THAT HE'S MORE POPULAR THAN THE MAN WHO WANTS TO GET RID OF HIM, MAYOR JAMES HAHN. THOSE NUMBERS REPRESENT A CROSS-SECTION OF LOS ANGELES INCLUDING PEOPLE OF ALL RACES, NOT JUST AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS HIS BATTLE FOR A SECOND FIVE-YEAR TERM IS CHIEF BERNARD PARKS.

CHIEF, IT'S ALMOST BECOMING A POPULARITY CONTEST. IS THAT THE WAY WE CHOOSE OUR CHIEFS OF POLICE?

BERNARD PARKS>> I HOPE NOT. I THINK THAT THE CHIEF'S JOB IS A TOUGH JOB AND IT HAS TO BE BUILT ON A PERSON THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO DEAL WITH THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY. IT'S NOT A SPECIAL INTEREST DEPARTMENT. IT'S SOMEONE THAT HAS THE VISION THAT CAN DEAL WITH ALL OF THE SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS IN THE CITY, BUT ALSO PROVIDE SERVICE TO THE COMMON PERSON AND LOOK FAR BEYOND RACE AND SPECIAL INTERESTS TO PROVIDING SERVICE TO FOUR MILLION PEOPLE.

I FELT VERY GOOD ABOUT THE POLL THAT TALKS ABOUT A CROSS-SECTION OF PEOPLE WHO DID NOT VIEW ME IN ANY COLOR OTHER THAN AS A GOOD POLICE CHIEF. I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK THE MESSAGE IS CLEAR TO ME. THE PUBLIC WANTS A GOOD CHIEF OF POLICE.

VAL>> BUT HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE BY THE HEAD OF THE LATIN AMERICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, THE LATINO OFFICERS WHO, BY THE WAY, COMPRISE MORE THAN A THIRD OF THE DEPARTMENT? THEY SAY THEY'RE NOT BEHIND YOU. THEY SAY MORALE IS DOWN.

BERNARD PARKS>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT A COUPLE OF THINGS. THERE'S BEEN A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP IN THAT ORGANIZATION. THERE'S BEEN A CHANGE IN THE ORGANIZATION. JUST NO MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, THIS IS THE ORGANIZATION THAT WROTE AN ARTICLE TO THE L.A. TIMES SUPPORTING ME AS THE CHIEF OF POLICE IN HOW I HANDLED RAMPART. THIS IS THE SAME ORGANIZATION THAT WAS VERY COMPLIMENTARY THAT EVERY RANK HAS MOVED UP SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE I'VE BEEN CHIEF IN APPOINTMENTS AND PAY GRADE. THIS IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS BEEN FULLY SUPPORTIVE UP UNTIL A CHANGE IN PRESIDENCY. SO I THINK --

VAL>> -- SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT IT'S THE OPINION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE LEAGUE THAT HAS CHANGED --

BERNARD PARKS>> -- PRESIDENT OF THE LA LEY.

VAL>> THE LATINO OFFICERS.

BERNARD PARKS>> BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE HISTORY. EVERY CAPTAIN IN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT'S HISPANIC WAS EITHER PROMOTED BY ME OR UPGRADED BY ME IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS. AT ONE TIME, WE HAD EIGHT DEPUTY CHIEFS. THREE OF THEM WERE HISPANIC. ONE HAS GONE TO BECOME A CHIEF OF POLICE SOMEWHERE ELSE AND ONE HAS RETIRED. SO NOW THEY SAY, WELL, THERE'S ONLY ONE NOW, BUT THERE WERE THREE NO MORE THAN A YEAR OR SO AGO. SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LARGER PICTURE AND LOOK AT THE INCREASES AT EVERY RANK FROM OFFICER TO DEPUTY CHIEF. THIS DEPARTMENT HAS GROWN. THERE'S ABOUT SEVENTY PERCENT INCREASE IN HISPANICS SINCE THE HUNTER-LA LEY LAWSUIT CAME INTO PLAY. SO THIS IS THE THING I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT, THAT OVERALL GROWTH.

JESS>> YOU HEARD MR. CATO SAY THAT IT'S SIMPLE. THE LATINO OFFICERS WANT A LATINO CHIEF. DO YOU BUY THAT?

BERNARD PARKS>> THAT MAY BE TRUE, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP GOING BACK TO WHAT'S NEEDED TO BE CHIEF OF POLICE. WE HAVE SEEN OVER TIME THAT THE CHIEF'S JOB IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT'S SIGNIFICANT FOR THE OVERALL HEALTH OF THE COMMUNITY. WE NEED THE BEST QUALIFIED PERSON. IF THAT PERSON HAPPENS TO BE BLACK OR HISPANIC OR WHATEVER, THEY STILL GO FOR THE BEST QUALIFIED. THOSE OTHER THINGS MAY BE BENEFICIAL TO CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, BUT WE NEVER GET AWAY FROM THE BEST QUALIFIED.

JESS>> CONVERSELY, DO THE BLACK OFFICERS SUPPORT YOU SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WANT A BLACK CHIEF?

BERNARD PARKS>> I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THE BLACK OFFICERS SEE, IN A VARIETY OF WAYS, THEIR CONNECTION WITH THE COMMUNITY. THEY SEE SOME CHANGES. THEY SEE ISSUES THAT ARE DONE DIFFERENTLY IN THIS CITY. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST DECADE, OR THE LAST TWO DECADES, WHAT COMMUNITY HAS HAD THE GREATEST HEARTBURN WITH THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. WHERE HAVE WE HAD TWO RIOTS? WHERE HAVE WE HAD PEOPLE THAT HAD A WEDGE IN THIS CITY THAT WOULD NOT HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE POLICE? WHEN THAT COMMUNITY COMES FORWARD AND SAYS WE SEE THE DIFFERENCE ON THE STREET BY THE WAY THE OFFICERS TREAT US, THAT'S NOT BY ACCIDENT. THAT'S BY DIRECTION.

VAL>> WE PROMISED VIEWERS THAT THEY COULD GET SOME QUESTIONS IN TO YOU, SO WE HAVE ONE NOW FROM BARBARA IN LOS ANGELES. BARBARA, YOU'RE ON LIFE AND TIMES.

BARBARA>> YES, CHIEF, I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE YOU PROMOTED, HOW MANY FEMALES HAVE YOU PROMOTED, AND HOW MANY LATINOS HAVE YOU PROMOTED TO THE UPPER BRASS SINCE YOU'VE BEEN CHIEF OF POLICE? ALSO, WASN'T IT YOU THAT CANCELLED OUT THE COMMUNITY POLICING?

BERNARD PARKS>> FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER ON THE SENSE OF HOW MANY HAVE BEEN PROMOTED. BUT I PROMOTED THE FIRST FEMALE DEPUTY CHIEF, THE FIRST BLACK FEMALE TO CAPTAIN, THE FIRST ASIAN TO COMMANDER, THE FIRST CHINESE-AMERICAN TO CAPTAIN. ALL OF THESE ARE FIRST IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS. WE ALSO HAVE PROMOTED A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF EVERY RACE TO ALL OF THE MID-MANAGEMENT RANKS AND THE SUPERVISORY RANKS. SO THE DEPARTMENT IS VERY DIVERSE AT THE OFFICER LEVEL. FIFTY PERCENT MINORITY FEMALE WERE --

VAL>> -- SO FIFTY PERCENT OF YOUR LEADERSHIP IS --

BERNARD PARKS>> -- AT THE OFFICER LEVEL.

VAL>> OFFICER LEVEL.

BERNARD PARKS>> NOW OUR CHARGE IS TO GET THEM THROUGH THE OFFICER RANK INTO SUPERVISION AND INTO MANAGEMENT AND THAT'S WHERE THE STRUGGLE HAS COME ABOUT. SO THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT TODAY AND LOOK AT IT FOUR YEARS AGO, YOU WILL SEE THE REMARKABLE TRANSITION AT EVERY RANK AND THE OPENING UP FOR EVERY ETHNIC AND GENDER GROUP IN THE DEPARTMENT INCLUDING GAY OFFICERS AND A VARIETY OF OTHER GROUPS.

VAL>> ANOTHER CONTROVERSY, THE LATEST CHAPTER IN THIS, REVOLVES AROUND THE HEAD OF THE POLICE COMMISSION, RICK CARUSO. HE REPORTEDLY USED THE "B" WORD TO DESCRIBE CONGRESSWOMAN MAXINE WATERS. THIS WAS IN --

JESS>> -- WE ASSUME "B" WORD IS NOT "BABE". (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> NO, IT'S NOT BABE. IT WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF A DISCUSSION ABOUT BLACK LEADERS INCLUDING MAXINE WATERS POSSIBLY PROTESTING RICK CARUSO BECAUSE HE IS NOT IN FAVOR OF A SECOND TERM, AND HE REFERRED TO HER IN THIS NEGATIVE WAY. NOW THEY ARE SAYING, BECAUSE HE USED THIS WORD TO DESCRIBE THIS WOMAN, HE OUGHT TO RESIGN HIS POST. DO YOU AGREE THAT THE USE OF THAT WORD WOULD WARRANT HIS RESIGNATION?

BERNARD PARKS>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK EVERYONE IN PUBLIC SERVICE HAS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY AND HOW THEY SAY IT. I THINK THAT'S A SUBJECT FOR THE MAYOR TO DECIDE WHETHER IT DID OCCUR AND, IF IT DID OCCUR, WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO ABOUT IT. THAT'S NOT MY ROLE TO LOOK AT --

VAL>> -- DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT IT, THOUGH?

BERNARD PARKS>> -- NOR WILL I MAKE ANY STATEMENT AS TO WHETHER IT'S SUFFICIENT ENOUGH. I WOULD THINK -- IF I MADE THAT STATEMENT ABOUT SOMEONE, IT WOULD GET A GREAT DEAL OF SCRUTINY AND INVESTIGATION. SO I THINK THE ISSUE IS, IT'S REALLY IN THE MAYOR'S BAILIWICK TO DEAL WITH IT.

JESS>> YOU'VE NO INDICATION WHICH WAY RICK CARUSO LEANS WHERE YOUR FIVE-YEAR TERM IS CONCERNED, DO YOU?

BERNARD PARKS>> RICK CARUSO HAS TOLD ME THAT HE IS GOING TO BE OBJECTIVE. HE HAS NOT MADE A DECISION, SO THAT'S ALL I CAN GO BY IS HIS WORD.

JESS>> WE HAVE A CALL NOW FROM GERALD IN L.A. GERALD, YOU'RE ON LIFE AND TIMES.

GERALD>> THANK YOU. CHIEF, I HAVE TWO QUICK QUESTIONS I WANT TO ASK YOU. FIRST, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR MEETING WITH YOU ON ST. JULIAN NOT TOO LONG AGO. I WORK FOR A MAJOR MENTAL HEALTH AGENCY ON SKID ROW AND I LIVE IN THE RAMPART AREA. WHAT I'D LIKE TO KNOW IS WHY THE CENTRAL DIVISION CAN'T DO A BETTER JOB IN TERMS OF PROTECTING THE HOMELESS AND THE MENTALLY ILL FROM THE PREDATORS THAT ARE IN THE AREA? THE SECOND QUICK QUESTION IS WHY YOU CONTINUE TO RESIST OUTSIDE INDEPENDENT OVERSIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT?

BERNARD PARKS>> FIRST OF ALL, THE REASON THAT CENTRAL AREA HAS A DIFFICULT TIME WITH THE ISSUES OF THE HOMELESS IS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A STRATEGY IN THIS CITY THAT DOES NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO BE HOMELESS. WE SHOULD PROVIDE SERVICE FOR MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE AND FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ADDICTED AND ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE WITHIN THAT HOMELESS COMMUNITY. IN MY JUDGMENT, IT'S NOT GOOD PUBLIC POLICY TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE ON THE STREETS, PARTICULARLY IN THE CONDITIONS THAT THEY ARE WHEN YOU DRIVE DOWN THE EAST SIDE OF THE CITY OF L.A.

AS FAR AS CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT, I THINK IT'S CLEAR THAT THIS DEPARTMENT HAS HAD A POLICE COMMISSION FOR DECADES, WHICH IS OUR CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT. WE'VE HAD A CITY COUNCIL WITH A MAYOR WHO APPOINTS AND APPROVES THOSE INDIVIDUALS. WE HAVE HAD AN EXPANSION OF OUR CHARTER WHICH GIVES THE INSPECTION GENERAL MORE AUTHORITY. A LITTLE KNOWN FACT IS THAT I WAS ONE OF THE FEW PUBLIC OFFICIALS THAT SUPPORTED THE NEW CHARTER THAT HAS EXPANDED POWERS OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL, BUT PEOPLE FORGET ABOUT THAT.

I THINK THE ISSUE OF CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT SHOULD BE OVERSIGHT, BUT WHAT WE FIND OFTEN IS PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT SHOULD GET INVOLVED IN DOING THE JOB ITSELF. IT SHOULD BE OVERSIGHT, AND THAT'S WHAT THE POSITION IS. I FULLY SUPPORT IT. I THINK IT DOES AN INVALUABLE JOB, BUT IT SHOULD BE IN AN OVERSIGHT CAPACITY.

VAL>> CHIEF PARKS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON AND BEING WILLING TO TAKE QUESTIONS.

BERNARD PARKS>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, THE BRAVE NEW WORLD AT THE SEAPORTS OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. NOW CUSTOMS AGENTS ARE LOOKING FOR MORE THAN CONTRABAND. THEY'RE SEARCHING FOR WEAPONS THAT MIGHT BE PLANTED BY TERRORISTS.

GAY YEE>> PORT OFFICIALS ARE PREPARED FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING, INCLUDING THE MOST NIGHTMARISH OF POSSIBILITIES: A NUCLEAR DEVICE. JUST LOOK AT THE LATEST PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THEY'RE CARRYING.

>> IT'S A RADIATION PAGER. IF WE HAVE ANY KIND OF NUCLEAR DEVICE OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF RADIATION THAT COMES THROUGH THE PORT, IT GIVES US A READING.

JESS>> SUPERMAN ALWAYS STOOD FOR TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY. PATT MORRISON WONDERS WHETHER ANYONE IN WASHINGTON EVER HEARD THAT MOTTO, IN TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT>> MOST PEOPLE I KNOW ASSUME THAT MOST OF THE TIME, IF THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T ACTIVELY LYING, IT'S LEAVING OUT BIG PIECES INADVERTENTLY OR DELIBERATELY OR JUST PLAIN SCREWING UP. SO I WAS SURPRISED TO FIND THAT, YES, SOME PEOPLE HAVE MADE A FEDERAL CASE OUT OF THIS.

THE SUPREME COURT IS HEARING FROM AN AMERICAN WOMAN, THE WIDOW OF A GUATEMALAN GUERILLA FIGHTER WHO WAS KILLED IN 1993. SHE SAYS THAT, WHILE THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION KNEW WHAT HAD BECOME OF HER HUSBAND, THEY TOLD HER THEY DIDN'T AND, EVER SINCE THEN, SHE'S BEEN TRYING TO HOLD THE CLINTONIANS LIABLE FOR LYING.

NOW THE FEDS STICK TOGETHER, SO IT'S NO SURPRISE THAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS SENT ITS LAWYER TO DEFEND THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S RIGHT TO FIB. YOU'LL REMEMBER IT WASN'T SO LONG AGO THAT THE REPUBLICANS WERE HAVING A CONNIPTION FIT OVER CLINTON'S FIBBING ABOUT OTHER THINGS.

APART FROM THAT, THE GOVERNMENT HAS JUST SHUT THE DOORS OF THE BRIEF, INGLORIOUS, OFFICE OF STRATEGIC INFLUENCE. IT WAS DONE IN BY WHITE HOUSE PRESSURE AND PENTAGON WRANGLING. THE OSI WAS TO BE THE SINGLE MOUTHPIECE FOR PSYCHOLOGICAL AND INFORMATION WARFARE DREAMED UP BECAUSE OF THE BACKLASH IN THE ISLAMIC NEWS MEDIA OVER THE WAR ON TERRORISM. BUT WHEN THE GENERAL WHO RAN IT PROPOSED SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION TO FOREIGN REPORTERS, THE DEFENSE SECRETARY SAID "THE PENTAGON WOULD NEVER LIE" AND MILITARY SPOKESMEN SAID THEY FEARED THAT THEIR CREDIBILITY WOULD BE SHOT.

SO NOW WHAT? DID PETER PAN FLY IN HERE AND SPRINKLE CREDULITY DUST ALL OVER EVERYONE? OF COURSE, THE GOVERNMENT LIES. MOST OF THE TIME I SUSPECT IT'S FOR BAD REASONS AND ONCE IN A WHILE FOR GOOD ONES, PERHAPS LIES OF OMISSION AS WELL AS COMMISSION, LIKE NOT TELLING THE WORLD WHEN AND WHERE THE D-DAY LANDING WOULD TAKE PLACE.

SO WE SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISED WHEN THEY LIE AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISED THAT THEY GET CALLED ON IT, AS HAPPENED IN VIETNAM. THAT'S WHY THE REPORTERS' MOTTO IS, "IF YOUR MOTHER SAYS SHE LOVES YOU, CHECK IT OUT, AND THAT GOES DOUBLE FOR YOUR UNCLE SAM."

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JESS>> ONE OF THE LATEST CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLES IN AMERICA INVOLVES GAY COUPLES WHO WANT TO ADOPT CHILDREN. THE ISSUE CAME TO THE FOREFRONT IN RECENT DAYS AFTER TALK SHOW HOST, ROSIE O'DONNELL, WENT ON TELEVISION TO TALK ABOUT HER LIFE AS A GAY PARENT. ONE OF THE THINGS SHE'S TRYING TO DO IS FOCUS ATTENTION ON THE STATE OF FLORIDA WHERE GAY ADOPTION IS ILLEGAL.

VAL>> ALSO ENGAGED IN THAT FIGHT IS THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION. THE ACLU SAYS THERE'S NO REASON TO DENY GAY COUPLES THE RIGHT TO SERVE AS PARENTS. TONIGHT JESS AND I TALK WITH THE NEW EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ACLU, ANTHONY ROMERO, ABOUT THIS STRUGGLE AND OTHERS THAT HE'S TAKING ON.

JESS>> FOR YOU, GAY ADOPTION IS A CRITICAL ISSUE?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> YES, IT IS. WE HAVE A NEW CASE IN FLORIDA WHICH GOT A LOT OF PRESS ATTENTION LAST WEEK BECAUSE OF THE WORK OF ROSIE O'DONNELL AND OUR ATTORNEYS. IT'S A CASE THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS WHERE WE HAVE TWO GAY PARENTS WHO'VE BEEN THE FATHERS TO THIS BOY FOR SIX YEARS.

VAL>> FOSTER PARENTS?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> FOSTER PARENTS, AND NOW THEY'RE TRYING TO BECOME THE LEGAL PERMANENT PARENTS. UNFORTUNATELY, FLORIDA LAW BARS GAY PARENTS FROM ADOPTING CHILDREN, EVEN IF IT ALLOWS GAY-LESBIAN PARENTS TO BE FOSTER PARENTS. SO THIS HAS BEEN A LAW THAT'S BEEN PROBLEMATIC FOR LESBIAN AND GAY COUPLES IN FLORIDA FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. ROSIE O'DONNELL AND OUR ATTORNEYS AND OUR STAFF HAVE BEEN WORKING TO COMBAT THE LAW AND TO MAKE SURE WE PUT IT RIGHT, TO MAKE SURE THAT GAY AND LESBIAN PARENTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO ADOPT EVEN AS THEY'RE GIVEN THE RIGHT TO BE FOSTER PARENTS TO THE KIDS.

JESS>> MISSISSIPPI AND UTAH ALSO OUTLAW GAY ADOPTIONS, DO THEY NOT?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> YES.

JESS>> HOW DO YOU MAKE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN FOSTER PARENTS AND ADOPTING PARENTS?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THAT'S A BETTER QUESTION PUT TO THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE. FOR US, IT'S A CASE THAT WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT SINCE THE 1970'S. IT'S ACTUALLY THE OUTCOME OF A CAMPAIGN THAT WAS LAUNCHED IN 1977 WITH ANITA BRYANT, WHO SAID THAT WE SHOULDN'T ALLOW GAY AND LESBIAN PARENTS TO ADOPT CHILDREN. SO OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS, WE'VE BEEN COMBATING THIS LAW AND TRYING TO WORK IT THROUGH THE VARIOUS COURT SYSTEMS. WE FINALLY ARE NOW ABLE TO PRESENT THE CASE IN FRONT OF THE FEDERAL APPEALS COURT.

VAL>> SO YOU ARE CHALLENGING THE CASE IN FLORIDA IN THE COURT WITH THIS GAY COUPLE AS YOUR PLAINTIFFS?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> YES.

VAL>> YOU MAY WIN THERE, BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THE LAW IS STRUCK DOWN IN OTHER STATES.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY CHANGE PUBLIC OPINION.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY CHANGE PUBLIC OPINION. THAT'S WHY THE WORK OF ROSIE O'DONNELL IS SO SIGNIFICANT. BECAUSE WITH ROSIE'S WEIGHING IN ON THIS ISSUE, WHERE SHE TALKS ABOUT HER OWN THOUGHTS AND HER OWN CONCERNS, WHERE SHE WAS ABLE TO EXPRESS TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WHY SHE THINKS THIS LAW IS UNFAIR, IT HELPS UNDERSCORE THE IMPORTANCE OF LESBIAN AND GAY RIGHTS. THIS AFFECTS NOT JUST A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE, BUT PEOPLE WE ADMIRE, PEOPLE WE KNOW IN ENTERTAINMENT AND ELSEWHERE.

JESS>> IN DOING SO, ROSIE O'DONNELL HAD TO ACKNOWLEDGE HER OWN GAYNESS AND THAT MUST BE FAIRLY CLOSE TO YOU, SINCE YOU ARE THE FIRST OPENLY GAY PRESIDENT OF THE ACLU -- OR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. NO, THE BOARD PRESIDENT IS SOMEONE ELSE. BUT I AM THE FIRST OPENLY GAY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ACLU. THE ACLU IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT TOOK THE CONCERNS OF LESBIAN AND GAY PEOPLE TO HEART LONG BEFORE MY APPOINTMENT. ALMOST TWENTY YEARS AGO, IT FORMED THE GAY AND LESBIAN RIGHTS PROJECT AND TOOK UP MANY OF THE IMPORTANT CASES HAVING TO DO WITH LESBIAN AND GAY EQUALITY IN THE U.S.

VAL>> BUT STILL THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME PEOPLE WHO WILL INEVITABLY SAY, "OH, WELL, HE'S GAY. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE PUSHING THIS ISSUE. THAT'S WHY IT'S AT THE TOP OF THE LIST."

ANTHONY ROMERO>> BUT IT'S ALSO AN ISSUE THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN AT THE TOP OF OUR LIST. THEY MAY SAY THAT, BUT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN AT THE TOP OF OUR LIST. IT'S A CONCERN FOR THE CIVIL LIBERTIES COMMUNITY BECAUSE GAY AND LESBIAN RIGHTS ARE PART OF THE BROADER AGENDA FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY. IT'S NOT A SMALL ISSUE AT THE MARGIN. IT'S REALLY AT THE FRONT AND CENTER, THE CORE SET OF OUR CONCERNS, BECAUSE LESBIAN AND GAY COMMUNITIES STILL DO NOT HAVE BASIC RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY.

JESS>> YOU ALSO BROKE DOWN A BARRIER, TOO, BY BEING THE FIRST LATINO EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ACLU.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> YEAH. FIRST LATINO, FIRST GAY, AMONG THE YOUNGEST EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS OF THE ACLU. THIS IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT REALLY HAS COMMITTED ITSELF FULLY TO THE BROAD RANGE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CIVIL RIGHTS OF EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY. WE WORK ON THE RIGHTS OF MEN AND WOMEN, OF LATINOS, OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS, OF WHITES, WE WORK ON ISSUES THAT ARE OF CONCERN TO DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS. IT'S AN ORGANIZATION FOUNDED 81 YEARS AGO WITH ITS CORE MISSION BEING THE DEFENSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CIVIL RIGHTS OF EVERYONE.

JESS>> YOU DEFEND CITIZENS AND NON-CITIZENS ALIKE?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> YES, YES.

VAL>> YOURS IS ACTUALLY AN AMAZING SUCCESS STORY. YOUR PARENTS DIDN'T HAVE MUCH MORE THAN A SIXTH GRADE EDUCATION, YOU ENDED UP GOING TO PRINCETON AND THEN STANFORD LAW AND THEN FORD FOUNDATION AND NOW 36 YEARS OLD AND HEAD OF THIS NATIONAL ACLU. THAT'S AN AMAZING RISE.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> WELL, THAT'S WHY I'M VERY PATRIOTIC.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) YOU'RE AN AMERICAN SUCCESS STORY.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> I BELIEVE IN THE AMERICAN SUCCESS STORY. BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT I HAVE BEEN GIVEN. MY PARENTS, EVEN THOUGH NOT FORMALLY EDUCATED IN THIS COUNTRY, ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT I COULD ACHIEVE WHATEVER I SET MY MIND TO.

JESS>> YOU ONCE WROTE THAT DISCRIMINATION, HOMOPHOBIA AND POVERTY PROVIDED YOU WITH INSIGHT?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> YES. YOU SEE THESE ISSUES FIRSTHAND. YOU GREW UP IN A CONTEXT WHERE YOU SAW HOW PEOPLE STRUGGLED. I SAW HOW MY FATHER STRUGGLED TO PUT FOOD ON OUR TABLE AND HOW HE CARED VERY MUCH TO MAKE SURE HE COULD GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY IN A LIFE THAT HE HIMSELF WASN'T BORN IN. WHEN YOU HAVE THAT INSIGHT AND YOU HAVE THOSE EXPERIENCES, IT MAKES YOU EVEN MORE COMMITTED TO MAKING SURE YOU CAN OPEN UP THE DOORS OF OPPORTUNITY FOR OTHER GROUPS AND FOR OTHER PEOPLE. THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THAT THE ACLU IS SUCH A SIGNIFICANT ORGANIZATION, THAT OUR CORE MISSION IS TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE HERE TO PROTECT THE BASIC RIGHTS OF EVERYONE. AFTER SEPTEMBER 11, THESE ISSUES HAVE BECOME EVEN MORE SALIENT FOR US.

VAL>> IN FACT, ONE OF YOUR TOP PRIORITIES IS LOOKING OVER THE RIGHTS OF THOSE CITIZENS AND NON-CITIZENS, MAINLY NON-CITIZENS, WHO ARE CURRENTLY BEING DETAINED UNDER NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS, BUT APPARENTLY IN SOME KIND OF LEGAL LIMBO.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> IT'S DIFFICULT. WE BEGIN WITH THE PREMISE THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE TO BE KEPT SAFE AND FREE. THE GOVERNMENT HAS AN OBLIGATION TO ENSURE THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF ITS CITIZENS.

VAL>> SO WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE FOCUSING ON?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> WELL, MANY OF THEM ARE NON-CITIZENS WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED --

VAL>> -- MIDDLE EASTERNERS.

JESS>> DETAINED AND NOT CHARGED?

ANTHONY ROMERO>> SOME OF THEM NOT CHARGED UNTIL MANY WEEKS OR DAYS AFTER THE FACT. THERE WAS ONE INDIVIDUAL THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DOCUMENT WHO WAS HELD FOR 66 DAYS WITHOUT ANY CHARGE AT ALL. THERE WAS ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS HELD FOR THREE AND A HALF WEEKS WITHOUT BEING GRANTED ACCESS TO HIS ATTORNEY.

OUR CONCERN IS THAT, EVEN AS THE GOVERNMENT FIGHTS THE WAR AGAINST TERRORISM AND EVEN AS IT DOES EVERYTHING IT CAN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF AMERICAN CITIZENS, AMERICAN PEOPLE, THAT IT MUST NOT LOSE SIGHT OF THE VALUES THAT WERE ALSO ATTACKED ON SEPTEMBER 11. WHAT'S AT STAKE ARE THE CORE VALUES OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM AND THAT'S WHAT'S ESSENTIAL FOR US TO KEEP OUR ATTENTION ON AS WELL RIGHT NOW.

VAL>> ANTHONY ROMERO, NEW EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ACLU, THANK YOU SO MUCH. A MAN WHO'S NOT AFRAID OF THE HOT SEAT. GOOD LUCK.

ANTHONY ROMERO>> I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AT KCET. IT'S MY PLEASURE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

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