5/8/02

LC020508

LIFE AND TIMES "THE ETHICS PROJECT" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY A GRANT FROM RALPH TORNBERG.

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> AN INSIDE LOOK AT THE NEWS BUSINESS. YOU COUNT ON JOURNALISTS TO BE FAIR AND ACCURATE, BUT WHO'S WATCHING THE WATCHDOGS?

GAY YEE>> JIM NEWTON SUPERVISES GOVERNMENT AND POLITICAL COVERAGE. EVERY DAY HE TACKLES ETHICAL CONCERNS INVOLVING REPORTER CONDUCT AND STORY CONTENT, FROM ANONYMOUS SOURCES --

JIM NEWTON>> TO WHAT EXTENT DO WE LET PEOPLE NOT ATTACH THEIR NAMES TO OPINIONS OR POINTS OF VIEW THAT WE WILL EXPRESS IN THE NEWSPAPER?

GAY YEE>> -- TO IDENTIFYING SUSPECTS.

JIM NEWTON>> AT WHAT POINT DO WE FEEL COMFORTABLE PUTTING A SUSPECT'S NAME IN THE NEWSPAPER WHEN THE POLICE HAVEN'T EVEN GONE TO THE LENGTHS OF ARRESTING HIM?

VAL>> HIGH-SPEED PURSUITS MAY SPIKE THE RATINGS, BUT IS TV NEWS REALLY DOING ANYONE A SERVICE BY PUTTING POLICE CHASES ON THE AIR?

BOB TUR>> "THE BUS IS NOW CAREENING INTO THE INTERSECTION. THIS GUY IS OUT OF CONTROL!"

>> OH, I FLIP AROUND THE CHANNELS TO SEE WHO'S GOT THE BEST COVERAGE.

>> HONESTLY, I THINK THEY SHOW TOO MANY OF THEM ON TV.

JESS>> TONIGHT THE ETHICS OF JOURNALISM. WHO DECIDES WHAT'S FAIR AND WHAT ISN'T AND CAN YOU TRUST THE NEWS TO BE ETHICAL AND FREE OF BIAS?

VAL>> THOSE ISSUES AND MORE COMING UP NEXT ON A LIFE AND TIMES SPECIAL, "THE ETHICS PROJECT".

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

TONIGHT WE'RE DOING SOMETHING JOURNALISTS TYPICALLY HATE AND THAT'S PULLING BACK THE CURTAIN ON THE NEWS BUSINESS, STRIPPING IT BARE. WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE JUST HOW DIFFICULT THAT MAY BE? STAND NAKED IN FRONT OF A MIRROR SOMETIME AND TRY TO DESCRIBE YOURSELF OBJECTIVELY. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE UP AGAINST, BUT WE'RE STILL GOING TO GIVE IT A TRY.

VAL>> WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE ETHICS OF NEWS AND, IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHY THAT CONCERNS YOU, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO ONE WORD: TRUST. CAN YOU TRUST THE NEWS YOU GET TO BE OBJECTIVE AND HONEST AND CAN YOU BE SURE THAT ADVERTISERS AREN'T PULLING STRINGS BEHIND THE SCENES?

JESS>> TONIGHT SOME VETERAN JOURNALISTS ARE HERE TO WEIGH IN ON THESE QUESTIONS, BUT FIRST A LOOK AT HOW A MAJOR ETHICAL CRISIS BROUGHT BIG CHANGES TO THE LOS ANGELES TIMES. GAY YEE HAS THE STORY OF A TIMES EDITOR WHO KEEPS THE PAPER ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW.

JIM NEWTON>> TOO OFTEN, I THINK PEOPLE USE ETHICS AS AN EXCUSE TO SIMPLY NOT DO THEIR JOBS.

GAY YEE>> JIM NEWTON IS DEPUTY METRO EDITOR FOR THE LARGEST METROPOLITAN DAILY NEWSPAPER IN THE COUNTRY, THE L.A. TIMES. THE PAPER HAS 27 PULITZERS AND A DAILY CIRCULATION OF MORE THAN A MILLION, BUT HERE THE NEWS BUSINESS INVOLVES MORE THAN HEADLINES AND DEADLINES. NEWTON IS PART OF A SPECIAL TEAM THE TIMES HAS ASSIGNED TO BE THE PAPER'S WATCHDOGS ON ETHICS, UPDATING EDITORIAL POLICIES AND CHECKING NEWS CONTENT FOR FAIRNESS AND BALANCE.

JIM NEWTON>> I THINK A GOOD SOLID COMMITMENT TO ETHICS IN JOURNALISM MEANS THAT YOU EXPLORE THE QUESTIONS AND YOU ASK THE HARD QUESTIONS OF YOURSELF AS AN ORGANIZATION. BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE USED AS AN EXCUSE NOT TO PUBLISH INFORMATION.

GAY YEE>> NEWTON SUPERVISES GOVERNMENT AND POLITICAL COVERAGE. EVERY DAY HE TACKLES ETHICAL CONCERNS INVOLVING REPORTER CONDUCT AND STORY CONTENT, FROM ANONYMOUS SOURCES --

JIM NEWTON>> TO WHAT EXTENT DO WE LET PEOPLE NOT ATTACH THEIR NAMES TO OPINIONS OR POINTS OF VIEW THAT WE WILL EXPRESS IN THE NEWSPAPER?

GAY YEE>> -- TO IDENTIFYING SUSPECTS.

JIM NEWTON>> AT WHAT POINT DO WE FEEL COMFORTABLE PUTTING A SUSPECT'S NAME IN THE NEWSPAPER WHEN THE POLICE HAVEN'T EVEN GONE TO THE LENGTHS OF ARRESTING HIM?

>> "LOOK IN THE BACK WINDOW AND PERHAPS YOU CAN CATCH A GLIMPSE OF O.J. SIMPSON SITTING THERE."

GAY YEE>> HE FACED THAT QUESTION AS THE LEAD REPORTER ON THE O.J. SIMPSON CASE.

JIM NEWTON>> FROM THE BEGINNING, I WAS REPORTING THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS A SUSPECT. HE HAD NOT BEEN ARRESTED. I WILL TELL YOU, THERE WERE A COUPLE OF SORT OF GUT-WRENCHING DAYS THERE WHILE WE WAITED TO SEE IF THE LAPD WOULD IN FACT ARREST HIM AND, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

GAY YEE>> IN 1999, ETHICAL ISSUES SURFACED WHEN A PROFIT-SHARING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TIMES AND THE STAPLES CENTER BLURRED THE LINE BETWEEN BUSINESS AND EDITORIAL.

JIM NEWTON>> I THINK THE PROBLEMS THAT SURFACED, THE DISCUSSION THAT SURFACED, IN THE WAKE OF STAPLES MAKE IT UNLIKELY THAT SUCH A THING WOULD OCCUR HERE.

GAY YEE>> WHILE THE PAPER'S ETHICS POLICY CONTINUALLY ADAPTS TO CHANGING TIMES, NEWTON SAYS IT SHOULD ALWAYS HOLD THE ORGANIZATION TO A VERY HIGH STANDARD.

JIM NEWTON>> OUR JOB IS TO PUBLISH INFORMATION AT THE END OF THE DAY. I MEAN, WE HAVE TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT. WE HAVE TO FEEL THAT IT'S SOLID BEFORE WE DO IT, BUT WE SHOULDN'T USE ETHICS AS A CRUTCH ESSENTIALLY. THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO BOLSTER OUR SENSE OF THE VALUE OF THE INFORMATION.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW, A PANEL OF HEAVY HITTERS FROM THE NEWS BUSINESS, STARTING WITH BILL BOYARSKY. BOYARSKY SPENT THIRTY YEARS AT THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, MOST RECENTLY AS CITY EDITOR. NOT LONG AGO, HE RETIRED FROM THE TIMES AND IS NOW TEACHING AT USC.

NEXT IS JUDY MULLER, A LOS ANGELES-BASED CORRESPONDENT FOR ABC NEWS. JUDY WAS PART OF THE "NIGHTLINE" TEAM THAT WON EMMYS FOR COVERAGE OF THE L.A. RIOTS AND THE O.J. SIMPSON CASE.

JEFF WALD IS ALSO AN AWARD WINNER, MOSTLY FOR HIS EFFORTS AS NEWS DIRECTOR AT KTLA CHANNEL 5. JEFF HAS WORKED AS A JOURNALIST IN LOS ANGELES TELEVISION FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES.

AND FINALLY, VAN GORDON SAUTER. HE IS A VETERAN TV EXECUTIVE WHO RAN SEVERAL LOCAL STATIONS, INCLUDING CHANNEL 2 IN LOS ANGELES. VAN IS ALSO FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE NETWORK NEWS DIVISIONS AT BOTH CBS AND FOX.

WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU AND, SINCE WE'VE MADE SOME REFERENCE, BILL BOYARSKY, TO THE STAPLES CENTER ISSUE, THIS WAS WHEN THE TIMES PUT OUT A SPECIAL MAGAZINE ON THE NEW STAPLES CENTER, NOT AS AN ADVERTISING SUPPLEMENT, BUT AS ONE OF THE SUNDAY MAGAZINES, WITHOUT DIVULGING THAT THEY WERE SHARING ALL THE AD REVENUE FOR THE MAGAZINE WITH STAPLES.

BILL BOYARSKY>> RIGHT.

JESS>> HOW COULD SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPEN?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, IT HAPPENED BECAUSE THE LINE HAD BEEN CROSSED. THE PUBLISHER AND THE CEO HAD GRADUALLY FORCED THE PAPER, FORCED THE STAFF, INCH BY INCH TO CROSS THE LINE, YOU KNOW, OF LETTING ADVERTISERS, OF LETTING THE BUSINESS PRACTICES, INFLUENCE THE NEWS.

JESS>> THE NEWSROOM DIDN'T KNOW THAT?

BILL BOYARSKY>> NO, THE NEWSROOM -- WELL, THE NEWSROOM -- I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT THAT ISSUE -- I NEVER LIKED THAT ISSUE. I THOUGHT IT WAS AN ADVERTISING-GENERATED ISSUE. I WAS THE CITY EDITOR AND I WOULD NOT HAVE -- I DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE ANY OF MY PEOPLE DO IT AND THEY WANTED JIM NEWTON TO WRITE THIS STORY ON HOW THE STAPLES CENTER WOULD HELP DOWNTOWN. NEWTON ABSOLUTELY REFUSED. THEN THERE WAS INCREDIBLE PRESSURE ON ME AND I FINALLY, NOT REALIZING THERE WAS THIS BUSINESS ARRANGEMENT, I GOT ANOTHER REPORTER TO DO IT AND HE REALLY WROTE A VERY, VERY TOUGH STORY, SAYING STAPLES WOULDN'T HELP DOWNTOWN AND THEY PUBLISHED IT IN THE MAGAZINE. THEY AGREED THAT THEY WOULD MAKE NO CHANGES AFTER I HAD EDITED IT.

VAL>> NOW THE L.A. TIMES LEARNED ITS LESSON. IT WAS VERY EMBARRASSED IN PUBLIC AND IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THEY NOW HAVE AN ETHICIST. BUT, JEFF, IN TELEVISION NEWS, YOU KNOW, BOTH JESS AND I HAVE WORKED IN COMMERCIAL NEWS, THERE'S NO SUCH THINGS AS ETHICS TEAMS. IS THERE AN ETHICIST AT CHANNEL 5?

JEFF WALD>> WELL, WE HAVE A MANAGING EDITOR BY THE NAME OF HAL FISHMAN WHO'S BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK A FEW TIMES, 42 YEARS AS AN ANCHOR IN LOS ANGELES. HE'S OUR GATEKEEPER. HE READS EVERY BIT OF COPY THAT GOES OUT ON OUR TEN O'CLOCK NEWS IN THE MORNING. WE HAVE MARCIA BRANDWYNNE, OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER. SHE CHECKS EVERYTHING OVER. SO IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT ARRANGEMENT IN A TELEVISION NEWS OPERATION THAN IT WOULD BE IN A NEWSPAPER.

VAL>> SO YOU'RE SAYING THE ETHICS ARE INTEGRATED INTO THE INDIVIDUALS IN CHARGE AND YOU JUST DEPEND ON THEIR PERSONAL INTEGRITY?

JEFF WALD>> YOU HIRE GOOD PEOPLE AND YOU TRUST THEM, YES.

JESS>> NOW WE DON'T HAVE SPONSORS. WE DON'T HAVE COMMERCIALS HERE, BUT WE DO RELY, VAN SAUTER, ON FOUNDATIONS GIVING US GRANTS, INDIVIDUALS GIVING US GRANTS. IS IT THE POTENTIAL FOR UNETHICAL CONDUCT AS A RESULT OF THAT?

VAN GORDON SAUTER>> OH, I WOULD IMAGINE THERE IS ALWAYS A VULNERABILITY. I THINK THE LIKELIHOOD IS TRULY QUITE SMALL. AND I THINK WE LIVE IN A WORLD TODAY IN THE NEWS BUSINESS WHERE THE POSSIBILITY, WITH THE RARE EXCEPTIONS AS THE STAPLES, OF SOMEONE SHILLING FOR AN ENDEAVOR OR SOME REPORTER SELLING OUT FOR CASH UNDER THE TABLE. THAT'S VERY, VERY SMALL. THE REAL ETHICAL ISSUES IN JOURNALISM TODAY COME DOWN TO FAIRNESS, BALANCE, IMPARTIALITY. THAT'S WHERE THE STRUGGLE TAKES PLACE. THAT'S THE TERRAIN AND IT'S VERY ROCKY.

JESS>> AND WE'LL DEAL MORE WITH THAT, BUT NOW LET'S TALK A BIT ABOUT ONE OF THE HOT TOPICS IN NEWS THESE DAYS AND THAT IS BIAS. ARE THE STORIES YOU'RE READING OR WATCHING GETTING TWISTED BY NEWS ORGANIZATIONS WITH A POLITICAL AGENDA?

VAL>> THAT IS THE CLAIM OF A FORMER NETWORK NEWSMAN WHO'S WRITTEN A BEST-SELLING BOOK ON THE SUBJECT. "BIAS" IS THE STORY OF BERNARD GOLDBERG'S DAYS AT CBS NEWS. HE CONTENDS THAT CBS AND TV NEWS IN GENERAL IS SO IMMERSED IN LIBERAL BIAS THAT OTHER VIEWPOINTS ARE RARELY HEARD, BUT SOME OF GOLDBERG'S OLD COLLEAGUES SAY HE'S DEAD WRONG.

>> BUT THE VERY FACT THAT WE RARELY IDENTIFY LIBERALS TELLS YOU -- AT LEAST IT TELLS ME -- THAT JOURNALISTS VERY OFTEN THINK THAT THESE LIBERAL VIEWS AREN'T LIBERAL AT ALL, BUT REALLY MAINSTREAM, CIVILIZED, REASONABLE VIEWS, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM, I THINK.

MARVIN KALB>> THE IDEA THAT BERNIE FOR 28 YEARS, ME FOR 24 YEARS, WORKED IN THIS AWFUL PLACE WHERE ALL KINDS OF BIAS WAS BEING DISPLAYED TOWARD THE NEWS IS SIMPLY NOT ACCURATE.

JESS>> JUDY MULLER, YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN NETWORK TELEVISION NEWS FOR SOME TIME, BOTH AT CBS AND NOW AT ABC. DO YOU FIND A LIBERAL BIAS AMONG YOUR COLLEAGUES?

JUDY MULLER>> WHY IS IT ALWAYS DO I FIND "LIBERAL" BIAS? SOMETIMES I FIND LIBERTARIAN BIAS. I OFTEN FIND GEOGRAPHIC BIAS. PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN NEW YORK TOO LONG SOMETIMES LOSE TOUCH WITH SMALL TOWNS IN AMERICA. I FIND THAT MORE OFTEN THAN ANYTHING ELSE. I THINK BERNIE GOLDBERG HAS FOUND A GERM OF SOMETHING THAT IS SOMETIMES TRUE AND EXPANDED IT INTO THIS GLOBAL VISION WHICH IS NOT TRUE, AND IT SELLS BOOKS. IT SELLS A LOT OF BOOKS.

VAL>> BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT THERE IS THERE? THE NEWSROOMS ARE FULL OF BIAS, WHETHER LIBERAL OR OTHERWISE?

JUDY MULLER>> I THINK THERE'S BIAS WHEREVER YOU HAVE HUMAN BEINGS AND I THINK WHAT WE HAVE, AT LEAST HERE IN THE L.A. BUREAU OF ABC NEWS, IS A VERY HEALTHY DEBATE THAT GOES ON. WE CHALLENGE EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME. YOU KNOW, "WHERE ARE YOU COMING FROM ON THAT?", "DOES THAT SOUND A LITTLE BIT...", AND I THINK THAT'S A VERY HEALTHY PROCESS. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE NEW YORK HEAD OFFICE. I'M NOT THERE EVERY DAY.

IT DOES WORRY ME SOMETIMES, AS I SAID, THAT THERE'S MORE OF A PAROCHIAL BIAS THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A NATIONAL NEWS ORGANIZATION, WHEN PEOPLE ARE ALL CENTERED IN ONE MAJOR CITY AND THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY IN TOUCH WITH THE VERY PEOPLE THEY'RE REPORTING TO.

JESS>> VAN, WHEN YOU WERE PRESIDENT OF CBS NEWS, YOU DEALT RATHER CLOSELY WITH DAN RATHER AND HE WAS ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL TARGETS OF THAT BOOK AS EVIDENCE OF LIBERAL BIAS. YOU FIND THAT TO BE TRUE?

VAN GORDON SAUTER>> WELL, I DON'T THINK -- WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT THAT THE AMERICAN NEWS MEDIA IS LIBERAL AND LEFT OF CENTER. WHETHER YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE L.A. TIMES, THE BOSTON GLOBE, THE NEW YORK TIMES, THE WASHINGTON POST, THE ATLANTA CONSTITUTION, THE MINDSET IS THE SAME. IT IS LIBERAL, IT'S ALL IN FAVOR OF GUN LEGISLATION, IT'S IN FAVOR OF ABORTION ON DEMAND. IT HAS ALL THE POLITICAL POSITIONS CODIFIED AND THERE'S VERY LITTLE DEVIATION. YOU KNOW, I THINK THE JOURNALISTS DENY IT, BUT THEY'RE THE ONLY PEOPLE TRULY DENYING IT TODAY. IT'S THERE.

VAL>> DOES ANYONE WANT TO ANSWER THAT?

JUDY MULLER>> WELL, I WILL STILL COME BACK -- YES, I AGREE THAT THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF BIAS AGAINST GUNS AND THE REST OF IT. I COME FROM THE WEST AND A WESTERN FAMILY, SO I REALLY FEEL THAT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETIMES SOMETHING I TALK ABOUT WITH MY EDITORS AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, YOU KNOW?

VAN MAY NOT REMEMBER THIS, BUT WHEN I WAS A CBS RADIO REPORTER IN NEW YORK, I HAD A COMMENTARY CALLED "FIRSTLINE REPORT" EVERY MORNING. I CAME IN AND TOOK A DAY OF AIR SUBJECT AND WROTE MY OWN COMMENTARY. ONE MORNING, I DID IT ON A HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH REPORT WHICH WAS DEFINITELY A LIBERAL-LEANING REPORT ABOUT ABUSES AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENTS OF HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES.

SUDDENLY I FELT THIS PRESENCE -- THIS WAS AFTER IT AIRED -- IN FRONT OF MY TYPEWRITER -- THAT'S HOW OLD THIS IS -- AND I LOOKED UP AND IT WAS VAN GORDON SAUTER, WHO WAS AN IMPRESSIVE, IMPOSING PRESENCE AND WAS MY BOSS --

VAN GORDON SAUTER>> -- IT WAS ANOTHER TIME AND DAY. (LAUGHTER)

JUDY MULLER>> AT THE TIME, HE WAS IMPOSING, AND I SAID, "YES?" HE SAID, "I HEARD YOUR COMMENTARY AND I THOUGHT IT WAS KIND OF A CHEAP SHOT." NOW I WAS A LITTLE NERVOUS AT THE TIME AND I ARGUED BACK AND SAID, "WELL, I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS A CHEAP SHOT" AND WE HAD A DEBATE RIGHT THERE, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS AMAZING. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD STILL HAPPEN TODAY WHERE THE PRESIDENT OF THE NEWS DIVISION WOULD COME OUT AND TALK TO A REPORTER ABOUT SOMETHING HE DISAGREED WITH, BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY HEALTHY EXCHANGE AND I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN A LOT MORE THAN IT DOES.

BILL BOYARSKY>> I THINK EVERYBODY HAS BIASES BECAUSE OF THEIR PARENTS, THEIR RELIGION, THEIR UPBRINGING AND WHATEVER, AND THEN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SKILLFUL IN THE BUSINESS ARE AWARE OF THEIR BIASES AND AWARE OF THEIR BELIEFS AND THEY COMPENSATE FOR THEM.

JESS>> THE ALIBI MOST OF US USE IS, "WELL, WE MAY HAVE PERSONAL BIASES, BUT WE'RE ALWAYS FAIR."

VAN GORDON SAUTER>> BUT LOOK AT IT. LOOK WHO THE JOURNALISTS VOTED FOR. THEY VOTED FOR AL GORE, THEY VOTED FOR BILL CLINTON, THEY VOTED FOR JIMMY CARTER. THERE IS A MINDSET, A CAST OF PEOPLE. WE ALL TALK ABOUT SEEKING DIVERSITY IN THE NEWS BUSINESS AND INDEED WE HAVE REACHED OUT, GENERALLY UNSUCCESSFULLY, TO PEOPLE OF COLOR, BUT THERE'S VERY LITTLE REACHING OUT. YOU GO INTO THESE NEWSROOMS AND FINDING PEOPLE WHO ARE LIBERTARIANS OR CONSERVATIVES, GOD LOVE YOU, JUDY, I DON'T FIND THEM.

JUDY MULLER>> WELL, THEY'VE ALL GONE TO FOX. (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. (LAUGHTER) ACTUALLY, BERNARD GOLDBERG'S BOOK IN FACT DEALS WITH BIAS AND FOCUSES ON THE TELEVISION NEWS BUSINESS, BUT ANOTHER MEDIA CRITIC SAID THAT NEWSPAPERS ARE JUST AS GUILTY.

JESS>> THE PROBLEM, ACCORDING TO JOURNALIST WILLIAM MCGOWAN, IS RAMPANT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. HE CLAIMS IT'S INVADED AMERICA'S NEWSROOMS AND, AS A RESULT, MCGOWAN SAYS REPORTERS OFTEN PRODUCE SLANTED STORIES ON TOPICS SUCH AS IMMIGRATION AND GAY RIGHTS. IS POLITICAL CORRECTNESS REALLY PRODUCING AN ETHICAL CHALLENGE FOR JOURNALISTS? HERE'S MORE FROM WILLIAM MCGOWAN AND REPORTER GAY YEE.

WILLIAM MCGOWAN>> I FOUND THAT A LOT OF THE COVERAGE WAS BEING FILTERED THROUGH A LENS OF, SAY, HYPERSENSITIVITY OR POLITICAL CORRECTNESS AND, OVER THE YEARS, THE EXAMPLES STARTED TO ADD UP AND GET, YOU KNOW, KNEE-DEEP, WAIST-DEEP, CHEST-DEEP.

GAY YEE>> JOURNALIST WILLIAM MCGOWAN FILLED A BOOK WITH THOSE EXAMPLES. HE SAYS POLITICAL CORRECTNESS SKEWS THE NEWS.

WILLIAM MCGOWAN>> IT'S NOT AS IMPORTANT THAT THE NEWS LACKS RACIAL DIVERSITY OR ETHNIC DIVERSITY. WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS THE NEWS IS UNBELIEVABLY BIASED IDEOLOGICALLY WHERE YOU HAVE LIBERAL PERSPECTIVES GET VOICED AND CONSERVATIVE PERSPECTIVES DON'T. PERSONALLY, I'M NEITHER A LIBERAL NOR A CONSERVATIVE, BUT I CAN RECOGNIZE LIBERAL BIAS PROBABLY FURTHER THAN I CAN SEE AT THIS POINT.

GAY YEE>> HIS ADVICE?

WILLIAM MCGOWAN>> I THINK, IF I HAD ONE THING TO RECOMMEND TO NEWSPAPER EDITORS AND BROADCAST NEWS EXECUTIVES, IT WOULD BE TO OPEN UP TO CONSERVATIVE PERSPECTIVES MORE. THEY'RE NOT THE BOGEY MAN.

JESS>> ALL RIGHT. JEFF WALD, IS THAT A PROBLEM IN LOCAL TELEVISION? HOW DOES HAL FISHMAN DEAL WITH THAT? (LAUGHTER)

JEFF WALD>> I WOULD TELL YOU THAT, IF YOU CAME OVER TO SEE MY NEWS DEPARTMENT, I'M NOT ONLY PROUD OF THE ETHNIC DIVERSITY OF THE NEWS DEPARTMENT, BUT I THINK THERE'S A WIDE RANGE OF POLITICAL VIEWPOINT. EVERY DAY WE HAVE A MEETING ON THE MORNING NEWS, WE HAVE A MEETING ON THE EVENING NEWS, AND WE TALK ABOUT ALL KINDS OF STORIES.

PEOPLE COME FROM ALL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. YES, I AGREE WITH JUDY THAT THERE ARE PERSONAL BIASES THAT WE ALL HAVE FROM OUR UPBRINGING AND ALL OF THAT, BUT I WOULD RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH VAN THAT OUR NEWSROOM IS WHAT I WOULD CALL A LIBERAL NEWSROOM. I THINK WE REPRESENT THE CROSS-SECTION. I REALLY DO.

BILL BOYARSKY>> MCGOWAN ENGAGES IN THE STEREOTYPE TOO THAT, IF YOU HIRE AFRICAN-REPORTERS, THEY'RE ALL GOING TO THINK THE SAME, AND IF YOU HIRE LATINO REPORTERS, I MEAN, THEY'RE ALL GOING TO THINK THE SAME BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY HAVE THIS LATINO MESSAGE THAT THEY GET EVERY MORNING TO PUT IN THE PAPER. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS TREMENDOUS DIVERSITY OF VIEWS ABOUT POLITICS, ABOUT FAMILY, ABOUT EVERYTHING.

VAL>> BUT HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT, IN GENERAL, YOU LOOK AT THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, I ADMIT IT'S THERE, THERE SEEMS TO BE LIKE PROPOSITION 187, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE IMMIGRANT ISSUE IS OFTEN REPORTED WITH JUST A GENERAL SYMPATHY TOWARD IMMIGRANTS. SAME THING WITH ABORTION AND GAY RIGHTS. THERE IS THIS SORT OF UNDERLYING IDEOLOGY. HOW DO YOU GET AROUND IT? WHY CAN'T WE MOVE IT MORE TOWARD THE CENTER AND BE MORE OBJECTIVE?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, I THOUGHT THE COVERAGE OF GAY RIGHTS AND THE WHOLE GAY ISSUE WAS NEITHER SYMPATHETIC OR UNSYMPATHETIC. I THOUGHT IT WAS --

VAL>> -- YOU DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S SYMPATHY TOWARD DOMESTIC PARTNER RIGHTS? YOU DON'T THINK --

BILL BOYARSKY>> -- NO, I MEAN, I THOUGHT THAT IT'S AN ISSUE THAT SHOULD BE REPORTED AND, IF YOU'RE GOING TO REPORT IT, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF IT AND WHO ARE AGAINST IT AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE REPORTERS WRITE IT WHO HOPEFULLY HAVE THE ABILITY TO WRITE A GOOD STORY THAT'S COMPELLING THAT WILL GET PEOPLE TO READ. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT PEOPLE GET ANGRY AT THE LOS ANGELES TIMES IS BECAUSE THE REPORTERS ARE VERY GOOD WRITERS. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE HIRED. THEY TELL COMPELLING, COMPELLING STORIES. SO SOMEBODY WHO WOULD RATHER SEE SOME BORING NEUTRAL PIECE DOESN'T LIKE IT. I THINK THAT'S --

VAL>> -- WELL, THAT'S INTERESTING.

JUDY MULLER>> BUT WE DON'T ALWAYS DO OUR JOB IN PREPARING PEOPLE. FOR INSTANCE, THE FIRST RODNEY KING -- THE SIMI VALLEY TRIAL IN WHICH ALL THE OFFICERS WERE ACQUITTED. I WOULD AGREE WITH LOU CANNON WHO SAID WE DIDN'T DO OUR JOB PREPARING PEOPLE FOR WHY THAT JURY VOTED AS IT DID AND WHY THEY BELIEVED THE POLICE WHEN THEY SAID THIS HAPPENED BEFORE THE CAMERAS ROLLED AND WE DIDN'T SEE THE WHOLE THING AND PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE. I THINK YOU WRITE --

VAL>> -- HOW COULD YOU PREPARE THEM, THOUGH, FOR A VERDICT THAT WAS --

JUDY MULLER>> -- BECAUSE WE WEREN'T REALLY LOOKING AT THAT POSSIBILITY. I THINK JOURNALISTS, AS A RULE, WENT INTO THAT THINKING, WELL, THERE'S THE VIDEOTAPE. THEY DIDN'T LOOK ANY FURTHER, THEY DIDN'T LOOK AT WHAT WAS IN COURT, THEY DIDN'T REALLY REPORT IT. I THINK IF WE HAD DONE A BETTER JOB, THE RIOTING MIGHT HAVE STILL HAPPENED, BUT IT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN SUCH A SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM OF LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE BASIC ISSUE HERE, WHICH IS ETHICS. IS BIAS UNETHICAL?

VAN GORDON SAUTER>> I THINK A GREAT DEAL OF BIAS IS DEFINED BY WHAT THE AUDIENCE EXPECTS AND I THINK THE AUDIENCE EXPECTS FAIRNESS, BALANCE, IMPARTIALITY. YOU VIOLATE THAT, YOU'VE VIOLATED AN ETHICAL CONCORD WITH THE PUBLIC. LET ME JUST SAY ONE QUICK THING. I THINK LOCAL NEWS ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS DEVOID OF BIAS, AND WHY? BECAUSE IT'S SO HIGHLY COMPETITIVE AND YOU CAN'T GET AWAY WITH IT. THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE NETWORK NEWS WHERE FUNDAMENTALLY THEIR AUDIENCES ARE DECIDED BY LEAD-INS AND OTHER FACTORS OTHER THAN CONTENT OR A LOCAL NEWSPAPER LIKE THE L.A. TIMES OR THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE OR THE SACRAMENTO BEE WHERE THERE'S NO COMPETITION AT ALL, NONE.

JUDY MULLER>> I DON'T THINK BIAS AND IMPARTIALITY ARE EVEN THE QUESTION ANYMORE. IT'S WHAT WILL GET THE RATINGS, WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT TO WATCH SO THAT YOU HAVE TWO AND A HALF MINUTES, EVEN ON THE NETWORK, OF AN ANIMAL STORY AND THIRTY SECONDS ON THE CHURCH OF THE NATIVITY FIREFIGHT.

VAL>> THANK YOU FOR THAT PERFECT SEGUE --

JUDY MULLER>> -- YES.

VAL>> -- BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO TURN NOW TO SOMETHING TO IT. IT'S A TRADEMARK OF LOCAL TELEVISION NEWS, ESPECIALLY HERE IN LOS ANGELES: HIGH-SPEED PURSUITS.

VAN GORDON SAUTER>> -- YES.

VAL>> WHEN ON THE AIR, IT'S ALMOST GUARANTEED TO BOOST THOSE RATINGS.

JESS>> IT IS NOT UNCOMMON FOR LOCAL TELEVISION STATIONS TO BLOW OUT MOST OF THEIR NORMAL NEWS COVERAGE TO MAKE WAY FOR A LIVE POLICE CHASE, BUT IS IT ETHICAL TO LURE VIEWERS WITH SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE LITTLE OR NO ACTUAL NEWS VALUE? HERE'S A SAMPLE OF WHAT THE PUBLIC HAS TO SAY ABOUT PURSUITS AND WHETHER THEY BELONG ON THE NIGHTLY NEWS.

ANNOUNCER>> "OKAY, THE BUS IS CROSSING -- LOSING CONTROL! THE BUS IS LOSING CONTROL, SPINNING...!"

GAY YEE>> THEY CAN RUIN YOUR COMMUTE OR INTERRUPT YOUR FAVORITE TV PROGRAM.

ANNOUNCER>> "FOOT PURSUIT! FOOT PURSUIT! SUSPECT IS RUNNING..."

>> OH, I FLIP AROUND THE CHANNELS TO SEE WHO'S GOT THE BEST COVERAGE.

>> SOMETIMES IT'S JUST SHOCKING, LIKE WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW?

ANNOUNCER>> "HE'S SMASHING INTO AND CRUSHING THE CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL UNITS LIKE TOYS!"

GAY YEE>> SHOULD HIGH-SPEED FREEWAY PURSUITS BE TELEVISED LIVE?

>> YES, BECAUSE THAT WAY YOU'LL SEE IF THEY'RE DOING ANYTHING WRONG BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE POLICE COVER UP A LOT OF STUFF.

>> IN MY OPINION, IT'S A WASTE OF TIME. IT'S GLORIFYING THE PERSON STEALING THE CAR. I WOULD RATHER HAVE THEM PROBABLY SHOW MORE OF WHAT HAPPENS AFTER WHEN THEY GO TO COURT, WHEN THEY GO TO JAIL, THEY PAY FOR THE CRIME. BUT I JUST DON'T THINK WE OUGHT TO TELEVISE IT AS MUCH.

>> I TURN THEM OFF BECAUSE I THINK THAT IT FULFILLS OUR VOYEURISTIC ATTITUDE OF WANTING TO SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING.

>> HONESTLY, I THINK THEY SHOWED SO MANY OF THEM ON TV, WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW ABOUT ALL OF THEM.

ANNOUNCER>> "THE BUS IS BACKING UP ON THE CURB, ACROSS THE GRASS, INTO A HOME!"

VAL>> JEFF WALD OF KTLA, I'M GOING TO GO TO YOU ON THIS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN --

JEFF WALD>> -- I HAD A FEELING. I'M THE POSTER BOY ON POLICE CHASES, SO GO RIGHT AHEAD.

VAL>> THE FAMOUS CASE OF KTLA AND OTHER STATIONS BROADCASTING LIVE A HIGH-SPEED CHASE THAT ENDED IN A VERY TRAGIC AND TRAUMATIC SUICIDE, THE PERSON, THE DRIVER --

JEFF WALD>> -- SEEN LIVE.

VAL>> SEEN LIVE, CATCHING ON FIRE AND THEN SHOOTING HIMSELF, AND YET WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS. WHY?

JEFF WALD>> WE DON'T CONTINUE TO DO THIS. SOME STATIONS HAVE ADOPTED POLICIES. WE'RE ONE OF THOSE STATIONS THAT ADOPTED A POLICY AFTER THAT VERY EVENT. WE HAD NOT ONLY A MEETING IN THE NEWSROOM, WE HAD A MEETING WITH THE ENTIRE TELEVISION STATION BECAUSE WE FELT THAT THIS TYPE OF THING THAT HAPPENED WE DID NOT WANT TO SEE REPEATED.

VAL>> SO WHAT IS YOUR POLICY NOW TO PREVENT --

JEFF WALD>> WE'VE PUT IN A NUMBER OF SAFEGUARDS. WE LITERALLY HAVE A BREAKING NEWS POLICY THAT WE PUT TOGETHER. AS A LIST OF CRITERIA, WE FIRST ASK THE QUESTION, ARE WE IN CHILDREN'S PROGRAMMING, WHO'S THE AUDIENCE AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, AND THAT SORT OF THING, SO IT'S THAT TYPE OF CHECKLIST THAT YOU GO THROUGH. NOT THAT WE NEEDED TO WRITE IT ALL DOWN, BUT I THINK WE ALL FELT BETTER AFTER WE PUT THIS TOGETHER, THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE SOME SAFEGUARDS, THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO HAVE AN INCIDENT LIKE THIS TAKE PLACE.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, EACH ONE OF THESE INCIDENTS NEEDS TO BE JUDGED ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BEING AFFECTED BY THE STORY? WE ALSO WENT THROUGH THE SOUL-SEARCHING OF COULD WE HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB OF CUTTING AWAY QUICKER AND NOT ALLOW THAT TO APPEAR ON OUR AIR? I MEAN, THERE WERE SO MANY QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD AFTER THAT HAPPENED. AS A RESULT OF THAT, I CAN TELL YOU THAT WE'VE PRETTY MUCH GOTTEN AWAY FROM BREAKING INTO PROGRAMMING UNLESS THE CHASE IS SOMETHING THAT IS AFFECTING A LOT OF PEOPLE AT A PARTICULAR TIME. AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE CASE.

VAL>> BUT THEN THERE'S THE LARGER QUESTION OUTSIDE OF SOMETHING TERRIBLE LIKE A SUICIDE HAPPENING. ARE HIGH-SPEED CHASES NEWS?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE CHASE. I MEAN, THE DAY THAT THIS TERRIBLE CHASE HAPPENED, AS I WAS WATCHING IT ON TELEVISION, I MEAN, IT STARTED OUT AS NO NEWS AND THEN IT STARTED TO BE A "B3" TRAFFIC STORY AND THEN IT EDGED ITS WAY UP TO "B1" IN MY MIND. PRETTY SOON WE WERE SENDING PEOPLE OUT RIGHT AWAY AND LINING UP EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT WAS CLEARLY A PAGE ONE STORY. I MEAN, MYSELF, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE PROBLEM THAT TELEVISION HAS. WE HAD ALL NIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO. BUT I DIDN'T THINK OF THE ETHICS OF IT. ALL YOU THINK ABOUT AT A MOMENT LIKE THAT IS GETTING A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT, THE BEST PEOPLE AT THE RIGHT PLACE.

JUDY MULLER>> AND THE GREAT PANTHEON OF ETHICAL QUESTIONS, THIS ONE DOESN'T DISTURB ME DEEPLY AND I HAVE TO CONFESS THAT I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE. I WATCH THEM. I MEAN, I CAN HARDLY TEAR MYSELF AWAY.

VAN GORDON SAUTER>> A LOT OF PEOPLE WATCH THEM.

JUDY MULLER>> ON SOMETHING LIKE THE ONE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, LET'S KEEP THAT OUT OF THE QUESTION FOR A MINUTE BECAUSE THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT KIND OF QUESTION. BUT IT DEPENDS ALSO ON WHAT IT INTERRUPTS. IF YOU'RE INTERRUPTING SALLY JESSE RAPHAEL, I DON'T SEE THAT IT'S A TERRIBLE LOSS TO THE COUNTRY OR ANY OF THE OTHER AFTERNOON SHOWS.

JESS>> BUT YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NEWSCAST AND, ONCE YOU START COVERING THAT STORY, THE AUDIENCE WILL NOT LET YOU BREAK AWAY FROM IT. IF YOU DO, THEY LEAVE YOU.

JUDY MULLER>> I DON'T THINK INTERRUPTING THE MIDDLE OF A NEWSCAST IS A GOOD IDEA.

JESS>> AND THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

JUDY MULLER>> BUT THERE WAS A GREAT STORY ABOUT A GUY WHO WAS WATCHING INTENT ONE AFTERNOON. HE HAD TO GO TO WORK AND IT WAS JUST KILLING HIM NOT TO SEE THE END OF IT. SO HE SLIPPED IN A VIDEOTAPE AND HE GOT IN HIS CAR AND WAS DRIVING TO WORK AND GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE THING BY ACCIDENT. THE GUY MUGGED HIM, TOOK HIM OUT OF HIS CAR AND THREW HIM ON THE FREEWAY AND TOOK OFF IN THE MAN'S CAR AND HE HAD IT ON HIS HOME VIDEOTAPE. THE WHOLE THING. I THOUGHT THAT WAS SORT OF A WONDERFUL L.A. STORY, YOU KNOW. THERE YOU GO.

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) ALL RIGHT. THAT HAS TO CONCLUDE IT AND WE DO APPRECIATE IT. OUR THANKS TO BILL BOYARSKY, JUDY MULLER, JEFF WALD AND VAN GORDON SAUTER FOR TAKING PART IN TONIGHT'S "ETHICS PROJECT".

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, A LOOK AT A LOCAL TOURIST ATTRACTION WITH SOME MAJOR MONEY PROBLEMS. THE AQUARIUM OF THE PACIFIC MAY NEED A BAILOUT FROM THE CITY OF LONG BEACH TO STAY AFLOAT. WHY HASN'T THE AQUARIUM CAUGHT ON AND WILL SOME CHANGES IN THE FRONT OFFICE MAKE A DIFFERENCE? THAT'S THURSDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES.

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. FOR MORE ON THE ETHICS OF NEWS AND OUR PANEL OF GUESTS, YOU CAN LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG. CLICK ON "THE ETHICS PROJECT" AND CHECK OUT BOTH THIS WEEK AND LAST WEEK'S ETHICS PROGRAMS.

JESS>> AGAIN, THANKS TO THOSE WHO JOINED US TODAY AND THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.

LIFE AND TIMES "THE ETHICS PROJECT" HAS BEEN MADE POSSIBLE BY A GRANT FROM RALPH TORNBERG.