5/14/02

LC020514

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> HE COULD BECOME L.A.'S FIRST LATINO POLICE CHIEF IN MODERN TIMES, BUT NOT WITHOUT ANSWERING SOME TOUGH QUESTIONS ABOUT DEADLY FORCE AND RACIAL PROFILING.

ART LOPEZ>> I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT IS BROKEN IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

VAL>> A RESPECTED VATICAN REPORTER TALKS ABOUT SEXUAL INTRIGUES WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND WHAT GOES ON BEHIND THE WALLS OF A CLOSED SOCIETY. IS IT TIME TO LIFT THE VEIL THAT SURROUNDS THE HOLY SEE?

JESS>> ALSO, CALLING ALL PARENTS. PATT MORRISON HAS A FEW THINGS TO SAY ABOUT WHAT YOU NAME YOUR KIDS.

PATT MORRISON>> WHAT'S IN A NAME? SHE WHO WE CALL ROSE WOULD PROBABLY NOWADAYS BE BRIANNA -- ON TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> HE WAS KNOWN AS THE KING OF DAREDEVIL COMEDY. THIS IMAGE IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY COMIC TRICKS FROM THE SILENT FILM GREAT, HAROLD LLOYD.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> BUT HIS MOTION PICTURE CAREER WAS MORE THAN RISKY STUNTS AND PRATFALLS. WE TALK WITH LLOYD'S GRANDDAUGHTER ABOUT THE LIFE AND FILM LEGACY OF HAROLD LLOYD.

JESS>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

HIS NAME IS ART LOPEZ. IF YOU HAVEN'T HEARD OF HIM, CHANCES ARE YOU WILL VERY SOON. LOPEZ HOPES TO MAKE HISTORY BY REPLACING BERNARD PARKS AND BECOMING THE FIRST LATINO IN MODERN TIMES TO HEAD THE LAPD.

VAL>> HE'S BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE. LOPEZ WAS UP FOR THE CHIEF'S JOB FIVE YEARS AGO, BUT LOST OUT TO PARKS. AFTER THAT, HE QUIT THE LAPD AND MOVED TO OXNARD WHERE HE NOW RUNS THAT CITY'S POLICE DEPARTMENT. BUT AS JIM HILL REPORTS, LOPEZ'S TOUR OF DUTY HASN'T BEEN WITHOUT CONTROVERSY.

JIM HILL>> HERE IN THE FAST-GROWING CITY OF OXNARD, THE POLICE CHIEF HAS JUST PUT ON HIS TURN SIGNAL AND MOVED INTO THE POLITICAL FAST LANE. CHIEF ART LOPEZ IS HONING HIS SKILLS AND WASTING NO TIME CAMPAIGNING FOR TOP COP IN THE CITY OF ANGELS.

ART LOPEZ>> I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT IS BROKEN IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT'S BROKEN INSIDE THE ORGANIZATION IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TOP PORTION OF THE ORGANIZATION AND THE RANK AND FILE.

JIM HILL>> HOW DOES A CHIEF IN A CITY OF 250,000 PEOPLE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT POLICING THE NATION'S SECOND BIGGEST METROPOLIS? BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. LOPEZ SPENT 28 YEARS IN THE LAPD, RISING TO THE RANK OF DEPUTY CHIEF AND NEARLY GETTING THE TOP SPOT IN 1997.

ART LOPEZ>> WHEN I COMPETED FOR THE CHIEF OF POLICE POSITION IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES, I FINISHED AS A SEMI-FINALIST FOR THAT POSITION, ONE OF SIX INDIVIDUALS.

JIM HILL>> LOPEZ LOST OUT TO BERNARD PARKS, ANOTHER LONG-TIME LAPD VETERAN, SO LOPEZ PACKED UP HIS AMBITIONS AND LANDED THE CHIEF'S JOB IN OXNARD WHERE HE'S OVERSEEN A FORCE OF 205 SWORN OFFICERS FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS.

ART LOPEZ>> THIS IS OUR MAJOR CRIME SECTION. THIS IS WHERE WE DO ALL OF THE INVESTIGATIONS.

>> WE HAVE A COUPLE OF WITNESSES THAT HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE EVENTS THAT OCCURRED, SO WE JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW UP ON SOME OF THOSE LEADS.

ART LOPEZ>> OKAY.

JIM HILL>> OXNARD IS CHANGING QUICKLY AS BUILDERS SCRAPE AWAY THE OLD FIELDS OF STRAWBERRY AND CITRUS AND REPLACE THEM WITH NEW HOMES, HIGH-RISES AND SHOPPING MALLS. HERE, THE NEW BUMP RIGHT UP AGAINST THE OLDER IMPOVERISHED NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE COLONIA. LOPEZ SAYS JOB ONE WAS FORGING STRONG TIES BETWEEN POLICE AND THE COMMUNITY WHICH IS ABOUT TWO-THIRDS LATINO. IT'S THE TRICKY TWO-WAY STREET OF CIVILIAN-COP TEAMWORK KNOWN AS COMMUNITY POLICING, A PROGRAM THAT FORMER LAPD CHIEF, BERNARD PARKS, WAS CRITICIZED FOR TAKING APART IN LOS ANGELES.

JIM HILL>> HAVE YOU BEEN SUCCESSFUL, DO YOU THINK?

ART LOPEZ>> YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE. I THINK THAT THE COMMUNITY POLICE ADVISORY BOARDS, FOR INSTANCE, HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN A NUMBER OF PROJECTS THAT HAVE NOT ONLY IMPROVED THE QUALITY OF LIFE INSIDE THE CITY OF OXNARD, BUT HAVE ALSO REDUCED CRIME IN THE CITY OF OXNARD.

JIM HILL>> DURING HIS RELATIVELY BRIEF TIME AS CHIEF HERE IN OXNARD, LOPEZ SAYS THE CRIME RATE HAS FALLEN BY ALMOST 25 PERCENT. ON THE OTHER HAND, SOME CRITICS SAY HIS OFFICERS ARE ENGAGED IN RACIAL PROFILING. LAST YEAR ALONE, OXNARD POLICE WERE INVOLVED IN FIVE SHOOTINGS. CRITICS PRESSURED POLICE TO EXPLAIN, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT IN THREE OF THOSE CASES, THE SUBJECTS WERE FOUND TO BE MENTALLY ILL. THE VENTURA COUNTY D.A.'S OFFICE HAS SINCE RULED FOUR OF THE KILLINGS JUSTIFIED AND EXPECTS TO FINISH INVESTIGATING THE FIFTH ONE LATER THIS MONTH.

ART LOPEZ>> DESPITE THAT, I MEAN, THEY'RE ALL TRAGEDIES, BUT I THINK AS AN ORGANIZATION, WE HAVE BECOME BETTER AS A RESULT OF THOSE TRAGEDIES BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT IT AS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

JIM HILL>> LOPEZ DOESN'T BELIEVE HIS OFFICERS ENGAGE IN RACIAL PROFILING, BUT HE SAYS HE'S BOOSTED TRAINING ON THE ISSUE ANYWAY AND GETS AN "A" FOR EFFORT FROM COMMUNITY GROUPS HE'S INCLUDED IN THE PROCESS.

YVONNE GUTIERREZ>> YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN THE PAST THERE WERE LESS TRAINED TO HANDLE THESE KINDS OF SITUATIONS, BUT I THINK HE'S MOVED THE DEPARTMENT IN THAT DIRECTION SO THAT THESE ISSUES ARE BEING ADDRESSED AND THEY'RE HANDLED IN A MORE APPROPRIATE MANNER.

JIM HILL>> THE ALLEGATION OF RACIAL PROFILING IS ONE THE NEXT CHIEF OF LOS ANGELES WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH AS WELL. ANOTHER IS POLICE MORALE. TARNISHED BY THE RODNEY KING BEATING AND THE RAMPART CORRUPTION SCANDAL, LAPD IS LOSING OFFICERS FASTER THAN IT CAN HIRE NEW ONES. THE HEMORRHAGE HAS LEFT L.A.'S THIN BLUE LINE EVEN THINNER.

JIM HILL>> YOU LEFT AND CAME TO OXNARD, SO YOU WERE PART OF THE HEMORRHAGING OF LAPD, AND NOW YOU WANT TO GO BACK?

ART LOPEZ>> FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. YOU KNOW, I'D LEFT BECAUSE I WAS SEEKING ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITIES OUTSIDE OF THE ORGANIZATION, NOT BECAUSE I WAS DISSATISFIED, BECAUSE I TRULY LOVED THE ORGANIZATION AND WAS HAPPY DOING WHAT I WAS DOING. BUT I THINK THAT YOU'RE RIGHT. THE NEW CHIEF IS GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE HEMORRHAGING, AS YOU CALL IT, OF PERSONNEL THAT ARE LEAVING THE ORGANIZATION.

JIM HILL>> WHOEVER BECOMES THE NEXT CHIEF OF THE LAPD MAY HAVE TO BE HYBRID, A COP'S COP THAT THE RANK AND FILE WILL WANT TO STAY AND WORK FOR, AS WELL AS A LAW ENFORCER WHO CAN ACCEPT THE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT NOW DEMANDED IN REFORM-MINDED LOS ANGELES.

ART LOPEZ>> BEING A COP'S COP ISN'T SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T ACCEPT OVERSIGHT FROM ANOTHER BODY. IN FACT, I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM IN BEING ABLE TO MAKE THAT ACCEPTANCE OF THAT OVERSIGHT.

JIM HILL>> WITHIN SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS, THE OXNARD CHIEF SHOULD KNOW IF HE'S LANDED THE L.A. JOB THAT ELUDED HIM BEFORE. FOR LIFE AND TIMES, I'M JIM HILL.

JESS>> LOPEZ MAY BE AN OFFICIAL CANDIDATE FOR THE CHIEF'S JOB IN LOS ANGELES, BUT IT'S UP TO THE LOS ANGELES POLICE COMMISSION TO COME UP WITH THE LIST OF FINALISTS. THAT PROCESS IS EXPECTED TO TAKE SEVERAL MONTHS.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, PART THREE OF OUR ONGOING "ETHICS PROJECT". THIS WEEK WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERYDAY ETHICAL DILEMMAS. FOR EXAMPLE, A COLLEGE STUDENT IS UNDER PRESSURE TO SUCCEED IN SCHOOL. CAN HE RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO COPY MATERIAL FROM THE INTERNET?

>> STUFF THAT I COULD TAKE, BORROW -- WELL, STEAL, I GUESS IT TURNED OUT TO BE -- AND USING MY OWN PAPER, WHICH I DID.

>> I UNDERSTAND THE INCENTIVE TO DO IT, BUT THE RISK IS JUST WAY TOO GREAT.

JESS>> TONIGHT WE HAVE A RATHER AMAZING STORY THAT SPEAKS TO THE ONGOING CRISIS INSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. IT'S ABOUT A RESPECTED JOURNALIST WHOSE WIFE IS STOLEN AWAY BY A JESUIT PRIEST. WHEN THE JOURNALIST COMPLAINS TO THE CHURCH, HE WINDS UP BEING LABELED AS MENTALLY UNSTABLE.

VAL>> THIS IS NOT SOME PIECE OF FICTION. IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO ROBERT BLAIR KAISER, A VETERAN JOURNALIST WHO HAS COVERED THE VATICAN FOR MORE THAN FORTY YEARS. IN FACT, KAISER COVERED THE HISTORIC VATICAN II COUNCIL IN THE EARLY 60'S FOR TIME MAGAZINE. TODAY HE'S WRITING ABOUT THE SEX SCANDALS PLAGUING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THIS TIME AS A CORRESPONDENT FOR NEWSWEEK. AND KAISER HAS WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED "CLERICAL ERROR". IN PART, IT'S ABOUT KAISER'S PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH THAT WIFE-STEALING PRIEST AND THE VATICAN HIERARCHY.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS ROBERT BLAIR KAISER. YOUR EXPERIENCE TELLS YOU MUCH ABOUT THE CONFLICT THAT'S GOING ON WITH THE CHURCH. IN WHAT WAY?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> WELL, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT ONE OF THE KEY ISSUES, JESS, IS THAT WE HAVE A CLERICAL CULTURE, A CAST. THE PRIESTS REPRESENT A BOYS CLUB AND THEY TEND TO PROTECT EACH OTHER. NOT UNLIKE DOCTORS WHO PROTECT MALPRACTICE DOCTORS OR GOOD COPS WHO SOMETIMES PROTECT BAD COPS, WHERE WE BOYS HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER.

IN BOSTON, AS WE'VE BEEN READING IN THE PRESS FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, WE HAD A CASE OF A BAD PRIEST, A REAL SCOUNDREL, WHO WAS PROTECTED BY THE CARDINAL ARCHBISHOP OF BOSTON AND SOME OF HIS AUXILIARY BISHOPS. THEY KEPT RE-ASSIGNING HIM TO OTHER PARISHES WHERE HE COULD GO AHEAD AND BE A SCOUNDREL AGAIN, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WITH LITTLE KIDS.

JESS>> LET'S TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE SCOUNDREL WHO DESTROYED YOUR MARRIAGE. YOU HAD SUSPECTED -- APPARENTLY WITH GOOD REASON -- SINCE YOU'D BEEN AWAY FOR A WHILE AND YOU CAME BACK TO FIND HIS CLOTHES AND A FEW OTHER THINGS TO INDICATE THAT YOUR FRIEND AND ONE OF YOUR SOURCES WHEN YOU WERE A TIME MAGAZINE REPORTER, THE JESUIT PRIEST, HAD BEEN LIVING WITH YOUR WIFE.

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> RIGHT.

JESS>> WHEN YOU OFFERED PROOF OF THAT, WHAT WAS THE CHURCH'S REACTION?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> WELL, THE PROOF I HAD WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH. I REMEMBER --

JESS>> -- YOU HAD A PRIVATE DETECTIVE.

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> WELL, BUT STILL AND ALL, IT WASN'T STRONG ENOUGH IN THEIR EYES, YOU SEE. THEY WANTED TO PROTECT THE GUY, SO THEY KEPT GIVING HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. ONE OF HIS SUPERIORS SAID TO ME, "WELL, THIS ISN'T REALLY PROOF." I SAID, "WHAT DO YOU WANT? TECHNICOLOR MOVIES OF THE TWO OF THEM?"

LATER ON, AFTER I PROVED THAT INDEED THEY WERE HAVING AN AFFAIR -- IN FACT, SHE LEFT ME AND WENT BACK TO LONDON TO MEET HIM AND THEY LIVED TOGETHER FOR FOUR MONTHS AND THEN HE DUMPED HER -- BUT NEVERTHELESS, WHEN I FINALLY CAME UP WITH THE PROOF, THE SUPERIOR SAID, "THESE ARE THE TECHNICOLOR MOVIES THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT." THEY WERE ACTUALLY LETTERS FROM HIM TO HER.

JESS>> BUT YOU WOUND UP BEING DECLARED A PARANOID AND ACTUALLY SENT FOR MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> THEY SENT ME TO A PSYCHIATRIC CLINIC IN CONNECTICUT. IN FACT, I WAS TAKEN THERE BY ONE OF THE LEADING THEOLOGIANS AT THE COUNCIL, JOHN COURTNEY MURRAY.

VAL>> WHO'S THE "THEY" WHO SENT YOU?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> JOHN COURTNEY MURRAY AND SOME OF THE JESUIT FRIENDS THAT I HAD IN ROME, SOURCES OF MINE.

VAL>> -- SO IT WAS THE CHURCH. CHURCH OFFICIALS SENT YOU?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> RIGHT, RIGHT. THEY DIDN'T SEND ME. THEY PERSUADED ME TO GO. SEE, I WAS SO NAÏVE THAT I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE I AM PARANOID. I'D BETTER CHECK MYSELF OUT. SO I GO TO THIS PLACE AND THEY GIVE ME A HUNDRED TESTS AND THEY LET ME GO AND THEY SAY, "YOU'VE BEEN WORKING TOO HARD. YOU GOT HERE PRETTY TIRED AND WE'RE GOING TO LET YOU GO BECAUSE, WELL, YOU MIGHT BE A LITTLE PARANOID TO THINK THAT A JESUIT PRIEST MIGHT BE HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH YOUR WIFE, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, YOU'RE OKAY."

JESS>> WELL, NOW, YOU'D BEEN A JESUIT FOR MANY YEARS. YOU WERE A FEW YEARS SHY OF ORDINATION.

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> RIGHT, RIGHT. I WAS IN TEN YEARS. I LEFT THREE YEARS SHY OF ORDINATION.

VAL>> AND THEN MET YOUR WIFE SHORTLY THEREAFTER.

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> RIGHT.

VAL>> WELL, A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY, NOW WAIT A MINUTE. WHERE'S THE WIFE IN THIS EQUATION? HOW COULD SHE START AN AFFAIR WITH A PRIEST? YOU WERE BOTH CATHOLIC, YES?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> RIGHT.

VAL>> HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> WELL, IT OFTEN HAPPENS. UNFORTUNATELY, --

VAL>> -- YOU THINK IT HAPPENS A LOT?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN EXPERT THAT'S BEEN ON A LOT OF TELEVISION THE PAST MONTH OR SO. HIS NAME IS RICHARD SIPE. HE'S A FORMER BENEDICTINE PRIEST AND A PSYCHIATRIST NOW LIVING IN SAN DIEGO. HE'S BEEN TALKING A LOT TO BISHOPS AND THEIR SUPERIORS AND HE HAS A VERY GOOD HANDLE ON THIS WHOLE QUESTION.

HE CLAIMS THAT, AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT, ABOUT HALF THE PRIESTS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE FOOLING AROUND SEXUALLY, EITHER WITH WOMEN, WITH THEIR SECRETARIES, WITH THEIR HOUSEKEEPERS, WITH DISGRUNTLED HOUSEWIVES UP THE STREET, WITH BOYS, YOU NAME IT. NOW WHAT DOES THAT TELL US? IT TELLS US LAY PEOPLE THAT THE CHURCH HAS TO TAKE A NEW LOOK AT THE WHOLE CELIBACY THING.

JESS>> YOU'RE NOW A CORRESPONDENT FOR NEWSWEEK COVERING THE VATICAN.

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> RIGHT.

JESS>> HOW ARE YOU RECEIVED AT THE VATICAN?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> WELL, I'M PRETTY WELL LIKED AMONG A BUNCH OF THEM. YOU KNOW, THE ROMAN CURIA, THE ADMINISTRATION, THE BUREAUCRACY, IS A WIDE SPECTRUM OF PEOPLE. ANYWHERE FROM THE CENTER TO THE LEFT, I'M WELL RECEIVED. THE CARDINALS WHO ARE VERY HIGH-BOUND CONSERVATIVES DON'T EVEN WANT TO TALK TO ME, SO I'M SOMEWHAT AT A DISADVANTAGE.

VAL>> SO TELL US, WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE KEYS TO REFORM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? IT'S FACING ONE OF THE BIGGEST SCANDALS IN ITS MODERN HISTORY. WHAT HAS TO CHANGE?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> I LIKE TO LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF THIS, VAL. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS STORY, THIS SEX SCANDAL, IS THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKING TO US THROUGH HISTORY AND TELLING US WE'VE GOT TO CHANGE. AND THE WAY WE HAVE TO CHANGE IS TO MAKE THE CLERICAL CAST, THE PRIESTS, THE BISHOPS, MORE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE. RIGHT NOW, THEY TEND TO BE LORDS AND MASTERS AND THEY DON'T LISTEN. I BLAME THE POPE IN PART FOR THIS. HE'S VERY AUTOCRATIC. HE EVEN GETS ANGRY WHEN PEOPLE TELL HIM WHAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR.

I REMEMBER ONE OF MY FRIENDS, A BISHOP FROM VANCOUVER, B.C., SAID AT LUNCH WITH THE HOLY FATHER ONE DAY, "WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE ORDINATION OF MARRIED MEN BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PRIESTS." THE POPE DIDN'T HEAR HIM. HE BROUGHT IT UP LATER IN THE LUNCHEON AND THEN THE POPE GRABBED HIS KNIFE IN ONE HAND, HIS FORK IN THE OTHER, AND POUNDED HIS FISTS ON THE TABLE AND SAID, "GOD WILL PROVIDE! GOD WILL PROVIDE!" END OF DISCUSSION. THIS IS A GUY WHO DOESN'T LISTEN. THAT NON-ACCOUNTABILITY, THAT AUTOCRACY, KIND OF TRANSFERS ON DOWN THE LINE, SO BISHOPS TEND TO BE THAT WAY TOO. NOW THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, THOUSANDS OF GREAT PRIESTS IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, MOST OF THEM DON'T GET MADE BISHOPS.

JESS>> BUT THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS AMONG THE BISHOPS. CARDINAL TIMOTHY MANNING?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> MANNING WAS A GREAT BISHOP. OUR OWN CARDINAL MAHONY IS A GREAT BISHOP. HE'S ONE OF THE BEST AMERICAN BISHOPS THERE IS. HE'S VERY OPEN WITH THE PRESS. HE TALKS TO US MORE THAN ANY CARDINAL. THE MEMBERS OF THE VATICAN PRESS CORPS CAN APPROACH MAHONY IN ROME.

JESS>> HE HAS SAID THAT THE ISSUE OF CELIBACY AT LEAST NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED.

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> HE WAS COURAGEOUS ENOUGH TO SAY IT, BUT, BOY, DID HE GET SQUELCHED WHEN HE GOT TO ROME.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WE HAVE JUST ABOUT 45 SECONDS LEFT. WE NEED TO WIND UP THE STORY. SO OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE MARRIAGE DID NOT LAST. WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PRIEST AND YOUR WIFE?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> WELL, HE DUMPED HER AND SHE WENT TO SEE HIS BROTHER IN DUBLIN AND SAID, "WHAT HAPPENED TO MALACHY?" AND HIS BROTHER --

VAL>> -- THAT'S THE PRIEST WHO HAD THE AFFAIR?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> RIGHT, MALACHY MARTIN. AND HIS BROTHER SAID, "HMMM, YOU'RE THE FOURTH ONE TO COME TO ME WITH THE SAME STORY." HE WAS A SCOUNDREL.

VAL>> WAS HE EVER KICKED OUT? HE WAS KICKED OUT OF THE CHURCH, RIGHT?

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> HE WAS A FUGITIVE. HE WAS A FUGITIVE FROM THE CHURCH. RIGHT, HE WAS KICKED OUT. HE PRETENDED TO BE A PRIEST TO THE VERY END. HE DIED IN 1999.

VAL>> I SEE.

ROBERT BLAIR KAISER>> BUT A CHARMING SCOUNDREL.

VAL>> WHAT A STORY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, ROBERT BLAIR KAISER. AGAIN, THE TITLE OF THE BOOK IS "CLERICAL ERROR: A TRUE STORY".

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JESS>> PATT MORRISON IS PLAYING THE NAME GAME TONIGHT AND WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT ANY OLD TOM, DICK AND HARRY. HERE'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION WHICH, FOR SOME REASON, TRACKS SUCH THINGS TELLS US THAT LAST YEAR THE MOST POPULAR BABY'S NAMES WERE JACOB AND EMILY. THIS HAS BEEN QUITE THE HORSE RACE BECAUSE JACOB DETHRONED MICHAEL THREE YEARS AGO AND EMILY OUTPACED JESSICA IN 1995.

THE NOTION THAT NAMES CAN BE AS TRENDY AS HEMLINES IS NEW, BUT FASHIONS IN NAMES MEANS WE CAN DATE HOW OLD PEOPLE ARE, ALMOST AS ACCURATELY AS COUNTING TREE RINGS. MOST GILBERTS, BERTHAS, ELMERS AND HAZELS ARE ON SOCIAL SECURITY. AND THERE'S NO MISTAKING THOSE TWO NAMES IN MY ADDRESS BOOK, MYRTLE AND MABEL, AS MY GREAT-AUNTS, NOT MY CONTEMPORARIES.

SINCE THE 1930'S, FIRST GRADE CLASSES HAVE BEEN FULL OF SUCCESSIVELY SHIRLEYS FOR SHIRLEY TEMPLE, DEBBIES FOR DEBBIE REYNOLDS AND SUSANS, TRACYS, NICOLES, ASHLEYS AND BRIANNAS. AS FOR VANNA, NOT ONLY CAN YOU TELL WHEN THAT GIRL WAS BORN, BUT WHAT HER PARENTS WERE WATCHING ON TV IN THE 1990'S, AND IT WASN'T KCET.

BIBLICAL NAMES DO GO IN AND OUT OF VOGUE, BUT WE AREN'T LIKELY TO SEE A LOT OF HEZEKIAHS OUT PLAYING T-BALL IN THE NEAR FUTURE. GIRLS' NAMES ARE MORE SUBJECT TO TRENDS THAN BOYS' NAMES FOR REASONS UNKNOWN, BUT PERHAPS NOT UNLIKE THE VAGARIES OF FEMALE FASHION. FOR NEARLY A HUNDRED YEARS, THE FAMED BOYS' NAMES ON THE LIST OF POPULAR BABY NAMES ARE JAMES, ROBERT, JOHN, WILLIAM, MICHAEL, BUT IN THAT SPAN, ONLY TWO GIRLS NAMES HAVE SURVIVED, CATHERINE AND ELIZABETH AND THEIR VARIANCES.

THERE'S BEEN A FAD FOR GENDER NEUTRAL FIRST NAMES THAT COULD BE LIKE LAST NAMES, SAY, LIKE MADISON, LINDSEY AND MORGAN. IF WE'D DONE THAT IN MY FAMILY, WE'D ALL BE NAMED CAMERON AND BLACKSTONE AND STINSON, LIKE STREET NAMES OR BATTLESHIPS. I AM PUZZLED BY THE POPULARITY OF ALEXIS FOR GIRLS. ALEXIS IS A BOY'S NAME, THE NAME OF A NUMBER OF RUSSIAN CZARS, SO IT MUST BE SOMETHING THEY HEARD ON TELEVISION.

BUT NOBODY WILL EVER OUTDO TWO MEMBERS OF OLIVER CROMWELL'S PURITAN PARLIAMENT. THEIR NAME WAS BAREBONES AND, IF THAT WASN'T SINGULAR ENOUGH, THE PARENTS NAMED THEIR SONS -- READY? "PRAISE GOD BAREBONES" AND "HAD CHRIST NOT DIED, THOU WOULDST BE DAMNED BAREBONES". LET'S HOPE IT WAS BOB FOR SHORT.

VAL>> ORSON WELLS CALLED HAROLD LLOYD THE MOST UNDER-RATED COMEDIAN OF THE SILENT FILM ERA. HE HAS MADE MORE MOVIES AND MORE MONEY THAN CHARLIE CHAPLIN AND BUSTER KEATON COMBINED AND HE WAS A PIONEER IN THE USE OF CAMERA TECHNIQUES AND COMIC SEQUENCES.

JESS>> HAROLD LLOYD WAS CALLED THE KING OF DAREDEVIL COMEDY ALSO FOR STUNTS SUCH AS THIS ONE IN THIS UNFORGETTABLE SCENE --

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> -- BUT ONLY FIVE OF HIS MORE THAN 200 FILMS WERE THRILL COMEDIES. ONE CRITIC SAID LLOYD WAS NOT A COMEDIAN, BUT A GREAT ACTOR PLAYING COMEDIC ROLES. AND FEW PEOPLE KNOW THAT, BEHIND THE SCENES, LLOYD WAS PRODUCER, DIRECTOR, PHOTOGRAPHER AND ASTUTE BUSINESSMAN.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS HAROLD LLOYD'S GRANDDAUGHTER, SUZANNE LLOYD. SHE HAS WRITTEN A NEW BOOK ABOUT HER GRANDFATHER, "HAROLD LLOYD, MASTER COMEDIAN". WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> IT'S A PLEASURE, VAL. THANKS, JESS.

JESS>> AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU WERE REALLY RAISED BY YOUR GRANDFATHER.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> I WAS. I HAD MY GRANDMOTHER, MILDRED DAVIS, ONE OF HIS LEADING LADIES AND LEADING LADY IN REAL LIFE, AND MY GRANDFATHER. I HAD THE PRIVILEGE THAT THEY RAISED ME. THEY WERE LIKE MY MOM AND DAD AND I LIVED AT GREENACRES WITH THEM FOR TWENTY YEARS.

VAL>> AND GREENACRES WAS THE BEAUTIFUL, WHAT, 44 ROOMS?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> IT WAS 44 ROOMS AND IT WAS ON 18 ACRES IN BENEDICT CANYON IN BEVERLY HILLS. IT'S NOW A NATIONAL TRUST HOME, BUT A LOVELY FAMILY LIVES ON IT.

JESS>> THIS IS YOU WITH YOUR GRANDFATHER HERE.

VAL>> THERE YOU ARE.

JESS>> AT GREENACRES?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> AT GREENACRES IN THE POPLAR GARDEN, AND AT THE [INAUDIBLE] ICE FOLLIES WITH MY GRANDFATHER.

VAL>> THAT'S GREAT, BUT IT'S HIS LEGACY WE'RE HERE TO LOOK AT. THE BOOK THAT YOU HAVE IS -- WHAT'S STUNNING ABOUT IT IS THE NUMBER OF PHOTOGRAPHS, THE QUALITY OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS. WE'RE GOING TO SEE A FEW OF THEM HERE AND, OF COURSE, HIS FILMS. BUT YOU'VE REALLY DONE A FANTASTIC JOB OF GATHERING AN AMAZING NUMBER OF PHOTOGRAPHS.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> THANK YOU. WELL, I THINK BASICALLY IT ALL STARTS BACK WITH DAD, THAT HAROLD REALLY CONTROLLED ALL HIS OWN FILMS. HE WAS REALLY A PIONEER IN THE FILM INDUSTRY, BUT ALSO A SHREWD, AS YOU SAID, JESS, A SHREWD BUSINESSMAN AND HE OWNED ALL THE COPYRIGHTS. HE ALSO KEPT VERY EXTENSIVE FILM VAULTS, SO I HAVE AN ARCHIVE OF OVER 6,000 STILLS AND THE BACKUP NEGATIVES ON NITRATE WHICH I'VE JUST DONATED TO THE MOTION PICTURE ACADEMY.

JESS>> LOOKING BACK AT HIS FILMS AND SOME OF HIS EARLY FILMS, HE WAS A CHARLIE CHAPLIN CLONE SORT OF. HERE HE IS, "LONESOME LUKE"? THIS WAS A CHAPLIN --

SUZANNE LLOYD>> -- COMPLETELY, AND HE WAS NEVER HAPPY WITH THAT CHARACTER AND HE WANTED TO KIND OF BREAK AWAY AND FIND HIS OWN CHARACTER.

VAL>> HE WAS UNDER PRESSURE TO DO A CHAPLINESQUE-TYPE CHARACTER?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, THOSE WERE WHAT THEY WANTED TO SEE, VERY SLAPSTICK. BUT THIS, HE WORE VERY TIGHT CLOTHES, THAT'S ANNETTE POLLARD WITH HIM. NOW --

JESS>> -- AH, BUT THIS IS A DIFFERENT HAROLD LLOYD.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> THIS IS A DIFFERENT HAROLD LLOYD. THIS IS WHERE HE STARTED COMING INTO HIS GLASSES CHARACTER. HE HADN'T REALLY GOTTEN TO THE -- THERE HE IS, THE REALLY CLASSIC HAROLD LLOYD, A PORTRAIT SHOT, ACTUALLY RIGHT ABOUT THE TIME THAT HE SHOT "SPEEDY".

VAL>> BUT HE REALLY FOUND HIS OWN, AND THE GLASSES JUST WAS HIS TRADEMARK.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> HE COULD TAKE THE GLASSES ANYWHERE. HE'D BE -- "SAILOR-MADE MAN", WHICH WAS ONE OF HIS FIRST SHORT FEATURES WITH MY GRANDMOTHER. THERE'S MY GRANDMOTHER AND MY GRANDFATHER ON THE PRODUCTION SHOT OF "SAILOR-MADE MAN".

VAL>> BUT HE DID ALL HIS OWN STUNTS?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> HE DID ALL HIS OWN STUNTS. HE ACTUALLY PRODUCED HIS MOVIES. HE KEPT HIS WRITERS. HE HAD A GROUP OF GAG WRITERS THAT HE ACTUALLY ROTATED AND USED AS HIS DIRECTORS, FROM CLIVE BUCKMAN TO TED WILD. HE KEPT HIS WHOLE CREW FROM FILM TO FILM SO HE ALWAYS HAD THE SAME CONSISTENCY AND QUALITY.

JESS>> HE OWNED HIS OWN MOVIES SO THAT THEY'RE STILL INTACT, BUT HE APPARENTLY GUARDED THEM RATHER JEALOUSLY BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT SEEN OFTEN AFTER THAT.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> NO, BECAUSE HE DID NOT LIKE SEEING HIS FILMS BEING PUT ON TELEVISION AND CUT UP BY COMMERCIALS. THAT'S WHY I HAVE THE WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW WITH TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES THAT THE FILMS WILL START SHOWING ON MAY 28 --

JESS>> -- COMMERCIAL-FREE?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> COMMERCIAL-FREE, AND TOTALLY RESTORED. I HAVE BEAUTIFUL 35MM NEGATIVES EVEN BACKED DOWN TO NITRATE AND IT'S BEEN RESTORED BY THE UCLA FILM ARCHIVE AND THE ESTATE. IT'S REALLY A PLEASURE, AND BRAND NEW SCORES. SILENT FILM THAT IS PRISTINE.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR GRANDFATHER IN MOTION. HERE'S A CLIP FROM "GIRL SHY", 1924. APPARENTLY THIS IS A CLASSIC RACE SCENE THAT PRETTY MUCH SET THE STANDARDS FOR RACE SCENES, IS THAT RIGHT? (LAUGHTER)

SUZANNE LLOYD>> I THINK SO. VERY SIMILAR TO RACING TO THE ALTER TO GET THE GIRL, TO SAVE HER FROM MARRYING THE BAD GUY, THE VILLAIN.

VAL>> OH, IS THAT RIGHT?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> YES --

VAL>> -- ALA, "THE GRADUATE".

SUZANNE LLOYD>> YES, ALA "THE GRADUATE". THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE IT CAME FROM.

JESS>> IT'S AMAZING. THE GLASSES NEVER LEAVE HIS FACE.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> NO, NEVER.

VAL>> NOW WAS HE A NATURAL? SOME PEOPLE SAY HE WAS A COMEDIAN. OTHERS SAY, NO, HE WAS AN ACTOR WHO WAS GOOD AT COMEDY. WHAT'S THE DISTINCTION THERE?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> I REALLY THINK HE WAS AN ACTOR THAT WAS GREAT AT COMEDY AND HE WAS A CHARACTER. HE WANTED TO MAKE HIS COMIC FILMS HAVE A CHARACTER, A DEPTH OF CHARACTER, AND A STORY AND A PLOT LINE.

JESS>> HE WAS NOT ONLY AN ACTOR, HE WAS A HECK OF AN ATHLETE, IT LOOKS LIKE TOO.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> YES, HE CERTAINLY WAS. ALSO, YOU KNOW, HE HAD A TERRIBLE ACCIDENT WHERE HE LOST HIS THUMB AND HIS FIRST FINGER ON HIS RIGHT HAND IN 1918.

VAL>> OH, HERE HE IS, BREAKING UP THE WEDDING. (LAUGHTER)

SUZANNE LLOYD>> THERE HE IS, BREAKING UP THE WEDDING.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THAT IS A CLASSIC. NOW HOW DID HE MAKE THE TRANSITION TO TALKIES?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> HE DID THE TRANSITION VERY WELL. ACTUALLY, IT WAS VERY INTERESTING. HIS FIRST TALKING FILM WAS ACTUALLY HIS LAST SILENT FILM AND IT WAS CALLED "WELCOME DANGER". HE SHOT IT COMPLETELY AS A SILENT MOVIE AND HE WENT INTO A MOVIE THEATER AND SAW THAT EVERYBODY WAS LAUGHING AT A TRAIN GOING BY AND EGGS FLYING IN A PAN. HE CAME BACK TO THE STUDIO AND SAID, HEY, BOYS, WE GOT TO MAKE THIS MOVIE INTO A TALKIE. SO HE PUT A MILLION DOLLARS INTO THE FILM AND TURNED IT AROUND AND RELEASED IT AS A TALKIE.

JESS>> HE WAS A FORCE IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA AND CERTAINLY BEHIND IT TOO.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> DEFINITELY.

VAL>> SO WHY DO YOU THINK CHARLIE CHAPLIN AND BUSTER KEATON ARE SO MUCH BETTER KNOWN?

SUZANNE LLOYD>> BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE LATE 60'S, CHARLIE HAD A GENTLEMAN WHO CAME ON, MEL ROTHMAN, WHO TOOK ON HIS ESTATE AND REALLY TOOK IT UP VERY COMMERCIALLY AND PUT IT ON TELEVISION. AT THAT POINT, IT WAS EVEN BEFORE VIDEOS OR DVDS. NOW IT'S KIND OF TIME FOR HAROLD TO COME OUT. I THINK THE WAY IT'S BEING PACKAGED AND WITH DOING LIVE SHOWS WITH LIVE SCORES -- I'M DOING ONE AT UCLA ON SATURDAY, JUNE 1, FOR THE L.A. CHAMBER ORCHESTRA -- HE WANTED THE FILMS TO BE INTRODUCED TO A NEW GENERATION, BUT DONE WITH GREAT PRINTS AND GREAT SCORES PER HIS LIFE AND LEGACY.

JESS>> AND YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB WITH THE BOOK TOO. SUZANNE LLOYD, THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR STORIES WITH US.

VAL>> THANK YOU. BEAUTIFUL BOOK. THANK YOU.

SUZANNE LLOYD>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> THE BOOK, AGAIN, IS "HAROLD LLOYD, MASTER COMEDIAN". AND TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES WILL AIR FIVE HAROLD LLOYD FILMS LATER THIS MONTH ON TUESDAY, MAY 28.

VAL>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OF OUR SHOWS OR LISTEN TO ABOUT A WEEK'S WORTH OF LIFE AND TIMES ON OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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