5/27/02

LC020527

JESS MARLOW>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

A STRETCH OF NEVADA DESERT MAY BECOME THE GRAVEYARD FOR AMERICA'S NUCLEAR WASTE, BUT CRITICS CLAIM THE YUCCA MOUNTAINS COULD ALSO BECOME A NUCLEAR NIGHTMARE.

STEVE FRISHMAN>> THE FACT THAT IT LOOKS LIKE A REMOTE AREA IS A LITTLE BIT MISLEADING BECAUSE DOWN GRADIENTS AT THE WATER TABLE IS A FARMING REGION THAT USES WELL WATER AND THEY USE THAT WELL WATER TO IRRIGATE CROPS, ALFALFA PRIMARILY, THAT'S FED TO COWS IN A LOCAL DAIRY THAT PRODUCE ABOUT 30,000 GALLONS OF MILK A DAY THAT GOES TO LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> ONE DAY-ONE TRIAL. THAT'S THE LAW OF THE LAND FOR JURY DUTY IN CALIFORNIA.

>> AND PERHAPS YOU DON'T LIKE OUR COURT OR IT'S A LITTLE BIT TOO FAR FROM THE PARKING LOT. TRANSFERS IN L.A. COUNTY ARE SLIM TO NONE.

JESS>> BUT WILL THE COURTS HAVE ENOUGH BODIES TO FILL THEIR JURY BOXES? TONIGHT A LOOK AT WHAT'S AT STAKE WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN TO SHOW UP AT THE COURTHOUSE.

AND ON THIS HOLIDAY, SOME DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES OF OUR MOST ENDURING NATIONAL SYMBOL, THE FLAG. TONIGHT WE'LL SEE HOW THE STARS AND STRIPES HAVE INSPIRED SCORES OF ARTISTS TO CREATE THEIR OWN UNIQUE SYMBOLS.

IT'S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

JESS>> GOOD EVENING, I'M JESS MARLOW. VAL HAS THE NIGHT OFF.

TONIGHT WE'RE GOING ON A TRIP TO THE NEVADA DESERT ABOUT A HUNDRED MILES NORTH OF LAS VEGAS. WE'RE HEADED TO A SPOT IN THE YUCCA MOUNTAINS THAT COULD BECOME THE WORLD'S REPOSITORY FOR NUCLEAR WASTE. THE RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS WOULD COME MAINLY FROM NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, BUT CRITICS HAVE LONG QUESTIONED THE SAFETY OF THE YUCCA MOUNTAIN PLAN, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE REPOSITORY COULD BECOME A TARGET OF TERRORISTS. TONIGHT SAUL GONZALEZ TELLS US WHAT'S AT STAKE AS THE PROJECT MOVES AHEAD.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> IT'S EARLY MORNING ON A REMOTE STRETCH OF HIGHWAY IN THE EASTERN MOJAVE. WE'RE DRIVING THROUGH ONE OF THE MOST INHOSPITABLE LANDSCAPES IN THE UNITED STATES. OUR DESTINATION IS A CRADLE OF THE ATOMIC AGE, THE NEVADA NUCLEAR TEST SITE.

IN THE DARK DAYS OF THE COLD WAR, IT WAS IN THESE VAST STRETCHES OF DESERT THAT AMERICA TESTED AND PERFECTED ITS MOST POWERFUL NUCLEAR WEAPONS. HULKING ARMAMENT DEPOTS AND LONG-ABANDONED GUARD POSTS OF THAT ERA STILL DOT THE LANDSCAPE LIKE RUINS OF A LONG-VANISHED CIVILIZATION. WHERE AMERICA ONCE UNLEASHED THE FURY OF THE ATOM, THOUGH, IT NOW WANTS TO BURY IT.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS PLANS TO TURN THIS DESERT INTO AMERICA'S FIRST NATIONAL NUCLEAR GRAVEYARD, A FINAL RESTING PLACE FOR THOUSANDS OF TONS OF HIGH-LEVEL RADIOACTIVE WASTE GENERATED BY AMERICA'S NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, AND THIS WOULD BE THE CENTRAL CRYPT. YUCCA MOUNTAIN, A THIRTEEN MILLION YEAR OLD VOLCANIC RIDGE THAT RISES 5,000 FEET ABOVE THE DESERT FLOOR. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS THIS IS THE BEST PLACE IN THE COUNTRY TO STORE AMERICA'S MOST DANGEROUS NUCLEAR GARBAGE.

TOM BJERSTEDT>> WE THINK WE'RE IN A SPOT WHERE WE MAY BE ABLE TO MAXIMIZE THE POTENTIAL OF ISOLATING RADIONUCLIDE FOR A VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> TOM BJERSTEDT IS A GEOLOGIST AND SPOKESPERSON FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, THE FEDERAL AGENCY CHARGED WITH TURNING YUCCA MOUNTAIN INTO A NUCLEAR WASTE REPOSITORY.

TOM BJERSTEDT>> IF YOU LOOK AT YUCCA MOUNTAIN, LOOK AT IT, WE'RE HERE. WE'RE SITTING ON TOP OF THIS MOUNTAIN. THE NEAREST PERSON IS FOURTEEN MILES AWAY. WE'VE GOT A DRY SITE, WE'VE GOT A LOW WATER TABLE, WE'VE GOT A VERY REMOTE LOCATION, GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED, SO IT'S BETTER THAN JUST LEAVING IT WHERE IT IS.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> NUCLEAR WASTE IS NOW STORED WHERE IT'S CREATED, IN THE 110 ATOMIC POWER PLANTS CURRENTLY IN OPERATION IN THE UNITED STATES. THE WASTE TAKES THE FORM OF SPENT URANIUM FUEL RODS WHICH ARE KEPT SUBMERGED IN ENORMOUS COOLING POOLS AT REACTOR SITES.

TOM BJERSTEDT>> SPENT FUEL, AFTER EIGHTEEN MONTHS OF USAGE IN A REACTOR, IS LIFTED FROM THE CORE. THE REACTOR IS SHUT DOWN, LIFTED FROM THE CORE, THE FUEL IS PUT IN THE POOLS UNDER WATER SO THAT THE WATER ACTS AS A RADIONUCLIDE AREA. THAT'S A TEMPORARY SITUATION.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> IT'S TEMPORARY BECAUSE THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY IS SIMPLY RUNNING OUT OF ROOM TO STORE ITS RADIOACTIVE WASTE WHICH ACCUMULATES AT A RATE OF SIX TONS A DAY. IN CALIFORNIA ALONE, OVER 1600 TONS OF HIGHLY RADIOACTIVE RUBBISH IS STORED AT SAN ONOFRE AND DIABLO CANYON NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS.

IT'S BECAUSE OF THIS NUCLEAR STORAGE PROBLEM THAT CONGRESS, IN 1982, PASSED THE NUCLEAR WASTE POLICY ACT. IT CHARGED THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY WITH FINDING, BUILDING AND OPERATING A NATIONAL STORAGE SITE FOR AMERICA'S GROWING STOCKPILE OF ATOMIC REFUSE. IN 1987, CONGRESS AMENDED THE BILL AND DIRECTED THE ENERGY DEPARTMENT TO SOLELY STUDY YUCCA MOUNTAIN AS THE SITE FOR A FUTURE WASTE REPOSITORY.

THE PLAN IS TO DIG A 100-MILE LONG LABYRINTH OF TUNNELS THROUGH THE MOUNTAIN NEARLY 1,000 FEET DEEP. THOSE TUNNELS WOULD BE USED AS BURIAL CHAMBERS TO STORE GIANT CASKS OF ATOMIC WASTE TRANSPORTED FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY STARTING IN 2010. EXCAVATING AT THE MOUNTAIN HAS ALREADY BEGUN, STARTING WITH THIS FIVE-MILE LONG TEST TUNNEL. IT TAKES SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS TO THE CORE OF YUCCA MOUNTAIN. THERE, THEY'RE GIVING THE MOUNTAIN A KIND OF GEOLOGICAL PHYSICAL, STUDYING ITS CHEMICAL COMPOSITION, GEOPHYSICS AND HYDROLOGY. THEIR PURPOSE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT, IF RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL IS BURIED HERE, IT WILL STAY PUT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

TOM BJERSTEDT>> AND A GEOLOGIC REPOSITORY, IN THE SIMPLEST TERMS, IS A FACILITY THAT TAKES THE RADIOACTIVE WASTE AND TRANSLATES IT FROM THE REALM OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE AND THE REALM OF THE HUMAN TIME FRAME, WHICH ARE SEVERAL GENERATIONS, TO ONE OF A GEOLOGIC TIME FRAME.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> GEOLOGIC TIME MEANS 10,000 YEARS. THAT'S HOW LONG THE GOVERNMENT HOPES NUCLEAR WASTE CAN BE SAFELY STORED AT THE SITE, AN AMOUNT OF TIME LONGER THAN THE SPAN OF RECORDED HUMAN HISTORY. THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO STORE 70,000 TONS OF NUCLEAR WASTE HERE AT YUCCA MOUNTAIN. HOW DANGEROUS IS THAT AMOUNT OF MATERIAL? WELL, SOME ESTIMATE THAT QUANTITY OF WASTE WOULD HAVE THE EQUIVALENT RADIOACTIVITY OF OVER ONE MILLION ATOMIC BOMBS LIKE THE ONE DROPPED ON HIROSHIMA. PLANS TO BURY THAT MUCH HAZARDOUS MATERIAL IN THIS DESERT HAVE OUTRAGED ANTI-NUCLEAR ACTIVISTS, ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND THE PEOPLE OF NEVADA.

STEVE FRISHMAN>> IT CAN'T BE A SAFE SITE. FOR THAT REASON ALONE, YOU KNOW, THE REST OF THE CONVERSATION IS MOOT, AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> STEVE FRISHMAN IS A GEOLOGIST WITH THE STATE OF NEVADA'S AGENCY FOR NUCLEAR PROJECTS. HIS OFFICE IS CHARGED WITH LEADING THE STATE'S FIGHT AGAINST YUCCA MOUNTAIN. ONE OF HIS PRIME ARGUMENTS IS THAT YUCCA MOUNTAIN ISN'T AS ISOLATED AS IT SEEMS.

STEVE FRISHMAN>> THE FACT THAT IT LOOKS LIKE A REMOTE AREA IS A LITTLE BIT MISLEADING BECAUSE DOWN GRADIENTS AT THE WATER TABLE IS A FARMING REGION THAT USES WELL WATER AND IT USES THAT WELL WATER TO IRRIGATE CROPS, ALFALFA PRIMARILY, THAT'S FED TO COWS IN A LOCAL DAIRY THAT PRODUCE ABOUT 30,000 GALLONS OF MILK A DAY THAT GOES TO LOS ANGELES. SO IF YOU TRACE THE WAY IT COULD BE RELEASED FROM YUCCA MOUNTAIN, IT GOES TO PEOPLE.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> YUCCA MOUNTAIN SCIENTISTS AGREE THAT, EVEN IN THIS PARCHED CLIMATE, WATER WOULD INEVITABLY PENETRATE THE MOUNTAIN AND FLUSH ITS WASTE INTO THE OUTSIDE WORLD.

TOM BJERSTEDT>> THAT IS THE FAILURE MODE FOR A REPOSITORY ULTIMATELY IN THAT, IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH WATER GETTING INTO THE SYSTEM, YOU GRADUALLY BEGIN TO DEGRADE YOUR ENGINEERED BARRIERS AND THE RADIONUCLIDES WOULD EXIT AND GET OUT OF THE REPOSITORY.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> THEN THERE ARE GEOLOGIC CONCERNS. THE AREA IS STUDDED WITH ANCIENT VOLCANIC CINDER CONES THAT SOME FEAR MIGHT ERUPT AGAIN, BREACHING YUCCA MOUNTAIN. SUPPORTERS OF THE REPOSITORY SAY CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING ARE INFINITESIMAL. THEN THERE ARE THE SEISMIC CONCERNS, THE PEOPLE FEARING A BIG ENOUGH QUAKE COULD CRACK THE MOUNTAIN OPEN, UNLEASHING ITS RADIATION.

STEVE FRISHMAN>> JUST IN THE PAST TWENTY YEARS, THERE HAVE BEEN ON THE ORDER OF 620 SEISMIC EVENTS OVER 2.5 WITHIN FIFTY MILES OF THE YUCCA MOUNTAIN SITE. THE LARGEST ONE IN 1992 WAS A 5.6 EARTHQUAKE THAT DAMAGED THIS BUILDING THAT WE'RE STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO AND THIS BUILDING IS THE HEADQUARTERS FOR THE YUCCA MOUNTAIN PROJECT OUT IN THE YUCCA MOUNTAIN AREA.

SAUL GONZALEZ>> THOSE CHARGED WITH STUDYING YUCCA MOUNTAIN ADMIT THEMSELVES THAT THE SITE MAY NOT BE THE PERFECT NUCLEAR CRYPT, BUT PERFECTION IS NOT WHAT THEY'RE SEEKING.

TOM BJERSTEDT>> WE'RE NOT CHARGED WITH LOOKING FOR THE PERFECT SITE. WE'RE CHARGED WITH LOOKING FOR A SITE THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH.

JESS>> AND JUST OVER A WEEK AGO, AMERICA'S ENERGY SECRETARY, SPENCER ABRAHAM, SAID THE PROPOSED NEVADA DUMP SITE IS TOO SMALL TO ACCOMMODATE ALL OF THE NATION'S NUCLEAR WASTE. THE SECRETARY SAYS THE FACILITY WILL HAVE TO BE EXPANDED OR ELSE TONS OF WASTE WILL HAVE TO BE STORED AT OTHER FACILITIES SCATTERED AROUND THE COUNTRY. THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS ARGUED IT'S BETTER TO KEEP THOSE RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS IN ONE WELL-GUARDED LOCATION.

TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, CUTTING THE FAT OUT OF THE FOOD KIDS EAT. WE'LL SEE HOW ONE SCHOOL IS DOING IT WITH A TRIP TO FARMERS MARKET.

>> WE HAVE STUDENTS EATING A BAG OF CHIPS AND A SODA AND THAT'S CONSIDERED THEIR LUNCH. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE FILLING THEMSELVES ON FOODS THAT ARE HIGH IN SODIUM, HIGH IN SUGAR AND LOW IN VITAMIN C, VITAMINS AND NUTRIENTS.

JESS>> JURY DUTY. MANY OF US RANK IT RIGHT UP THERE WITH A ROOT CANAL. BUT IF YOU THINK IT'S A PAIN TO GET CALLED, JUST IMAGINE WHAT THE COURTS ARE UP AGAINST AS THEY TRY TO KEEP THEIR JURY BOXES FILLED.

>> IN ORDER TO HAVE ENOUGH JURORS TO ACTUALLY FEED THE 6,000 TO 7,000 JURY TRIALS, SWORN JURY TRIALS, THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTY, WE'VE GOT TO CONTACT ABOUT 5.9 MILLION PEOPLE.

JESS>> THERE IS SOME RELIEF AHEAD FOR PROSPECTIVE JURORS. COURTS ARE IMPLEMENTING THE ONE DAY-ONE TRIAL SYSTEM. IT MEANS, IF YOU'RE NOT ASSIGNED THE FIRST DAY, YOU'RE FREE TO GO. BUT WHAT IMPACT IS THAT HAVING AT THE COUNTY'S COURTHOUSES? HERE TO BRING US UP TO DATE IS LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE KEVIN ROSS. ALSO JOINING US IS GLORIA GOMEZ WHO IS DIRECTOR OF JURY SERVICES FOR LOS ANGELES COUNTY.

ONE DAY-ONE TRIAL? SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT ARRANGEMENT.

KEVIN ROSS>> ALWAYS, WONDERFUL.

JESS>> WHAT, WE SHOWED UP FOR TEN DAYS?

GLORIA GOMEZ>> CORRECT.

JESS>> ONE TIME, IT WAS...

GLORIA GOMEZ>> THIRTY.

JESS>> THIRTY DAYS.

GLORIA GOMEZ>> THIRTY DAYS.

JESS>> SO THIS IS THE PERFECT SOLUTION. ONE DAY-ONE TRIAL, RIGHT?

GLORIA GOMEZ>> WE THINK SO, YES. ABSOLUTELY. I THINK MOST OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE NOW SERVING -- WE'VE HAD THE TERM OF SERVICE NOW FOR ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS IN MOST LOCATIONS AND MOST OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE NOW SERVING FIND IT A MUCH MORE PALATABLE TERM OF SERVICE.

JESS>> BUT THERE IS A DOWN SIDE ISN'T THERE, JUDGE ROSS?

KEVIN ROSS>> THERE IS A DOWN SIDE, BUT THE GOOD CLEARLY OUTWEIGHS THE BAD. (LAUGHTER) I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO SAY I'VE HANDLED ABOUT FIFTY JURY TRIALS. "THANK YOU, JURORS, FOR PARTICIPATING. YOU HAVE BEEN GREAT. WE LOVE YOU. WE WANT YOU TO CONTINUE TO BE A PART OF THE PROCESS."

AND WE NEED THEM. I MEAN, YOU LOOK AT THESE HIGH-PROFILE CASES AND YOU LOOK AT, WHETHER IT'S CRIMINAL OR CIVIL, WE NEED THESE JURORS TO COME THROUGH. WHAT HAD BEEN HAPPENING IN THE PAST, PEOPLE JUST DREADED IT. THEY COMPLAINED ABOUT THE JURY ASSEMBLY ROOM, THE ACCOMMODATIONS, THAT THERE'S NOTHING TO DO, THAT THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE, --

JESS>> -- THE DRINKING FOUNTAIN HAD ONLY HOT WATER IN IT. I REMEMBER THAT. (LAUGHTER)

GLORIA GOMEZ>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S CORRECT. FOR A WHILE.

KEVIN ROSS>> (LAUGHTER) PERSONAL TESTIMONY.

JESS>> YES, THAT'S RIGHT.

KEVIN ROSS>> SO WITH THIS NEW PROGRAM AND WHAT'S EXCITING IS, NOW IT'S BEEN A WEEK SINCE DOWNTOWN'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE CENTER HAS IMPLEMENTED THE ONE DAY-ONE TRIAL. SO FAR, THE RESULTS HAVE BEEN PRETTY POSITIVE WITH PEOPLE SAYING, YOU KNOW, ALL I HAVE TO DO IS CALL, OR IF I SPEND THE WHOLE DAY AND NOTHING HAPPENS, I'M DONE FOR THE YEAR. IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

JESS>> MS. GOMEZ, THE THING THAT REALLY SHOCKS ME IS THE FACT THAT YOU WILL NOW BE REQUIRED TO HAVE 10,000 JURORS PER DAY?

GLORIA GOMEZ>> THAT IS CORRECT. ABSOLUTELY A VERY LARGE NUMBER. IN OUR FILE, YOU KNOW, OF INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE CALLED FOR JURY SERVICE ON A YEARLY BASIS, ONCE IT IS BUILT, IT DOES CONTAIN ALMOST -- ACTUALLY OVER HALF OF THE COUNTY'S POPULATION. PRESENTLY OUR CURRENT FILE HAS ABOUT 6.1 MILLION NAMES ON IT.

JESS>> 10,000 A DAY.

KEVIN ROSS>> AND IT'S MANDATORY. I WANT TO STRESS THAT WITH YOU. JURY SERVICE IS NOT AN OPTION. IT IS A --

GLORIA GOMEZ>> -- OBLIGATION.

KEVIN ROSS>> DIRECT BENEFIT AND OBLIGATION. THAT'S PART OF CITIZENSHIP, SO WE ARE BEING MUCH MORE STRICT ON GETTING OUT. THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF, WELL, I'LL JUST WRITE A LETTER OR I'LL JUST SEE IF I CAN CALL SOMEBODY, THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANYMORE. GLORIA, MAYBE YOU CAN EVEN TELL THEM SOME OF THE EXCUSES THAT PEOPLE TRY TO COME UP WITH NOW THAT WE'RE NOT ACCEPTING.

GLORIA GOMEZ>> WELL, THE ONES THAT WON'T WORK? WELL, I THINK THOSE FAIRLY RUN THE GAMUT ACTUALLY FROM EXTREME TO EXTREME. BUT THE THING THAT --

JESS>> -- "I'M HAVING A BAD HAIR DAY" IS NOT GOING TO WORK, HUH? (LAUGHTER)

GLORIA GOMEZ>> (LAUGHTER) NO, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK. OR THAT, FOR INSTANCE, "I'M TOO BEAUTIFUL TO SERVE." THAT'S A VERY COMMON ONE TOO (LAUGHTER), BUT THAT HAS COME ACROSS MY DESK AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT IT DOES NOT WORK.

KEVIN ROSS>> NO WAY, AND PEOPLE SAY THAT THEY'RE INCONVENIENCED OR IT'S A FINANCIAL BURDEN. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ACTUALLY COME IN TO COURT AND SHOW EXTREME FINANCIAL HARDSHIP.

JESS>> BUT NOT EVERYBODY IS QUALIFIED. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE QUALIFICATIONS. HERE'S A LOOK. THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR BEING A JUROR, FIRST, YOU HAVE TO BE A U.S. CITIZEN AND AT LEAST EIGHTEEN YEARS OF AGE.

KEVIN ROSS>> THAT'S RIGHT.

JESS>> YOU ALSO MUST BE A CALIFORNIA RESIDENT AND LIVING IN THE COUNTY IN WHICH YOU'RE CALLED TO SERVE. YOU CANNOT HAVE A RECORD OF CRIMINAL CONVICTION, AND YOU MUST HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF ENGLISH.

KEVIN ROSS>> AND, JESS, IF I CAN JUST CORRECT YOU ON THAT. IT SAYS NO FELONIES. INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE HAD FELONIES CAN STILL SERVE AS JURORS. IT'S JUST THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A CERTAIN TIME THAT HAS ELAPSED AND CERTAIN TYPES OF FELONIES THAT WOULD PREVENT THEM.

GLORIA GOMEZ>> RIGHT. USUALLY THE REQUIREMENT FOR A PERSON TO ONCE AGAIN BE ABLE TO SERVE IS THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE A FULL PARDON, ACTUALLY, FOR THE CONVICTION. AND ON THE FELONY SITUATION, THAT IS THE TYPICAL WAY TO GET BACK YOUR RIGHTS.

JESS>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SEEMS READILY APPARENT IS THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE CALLED FOR JURY DUTY MUCH MORE OFTEN.

GLORIA GOMEZ>> THAT IS CORRECT.

JESS>> HOW OFTEN?

GLORIA GOMEZ>> ACTUALLY, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, IT APPEARS THAT INDIVIDUALS -- WITH DUE RESPECT, THE COURT IS DOING A GREAT DEAL TO TRY TO KEEP THAT TIME FROM BEING, YOU KNOW, EVERY YEAR. PRESENTLY OUR MODE IS TO TRY TO REDUCE OUR USAGE SUCH THAT WE ARE TRYING TO GET FIFTEEN MONTHS BETWEEN SERVICE UP TO TWO YEARS. SO IT IS, AT THIS POINT, AT ABOUT FIFTEEN MONTHS, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK OUR WAY TO TWO YEARS BETWEEN SERVICE.

JESS>> BUT, JUDGE ROSS, THERE ARE STUDIES THAT INDICATE THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE SERVED ON JURIES PREVIOUSLY ARE MUCH BETTER JURORS THE SECOND OR THIRD TIME AROUND?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, PART OF IT IS THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF INDIVIDUALS OFTENTIMES DON'T HAVE A COMPLAINT ABOUT ACTUALLY SERVING. IT'S THE WAITING, IT'S THE SITTING AROUND, IT'S ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT COME WITH IT. ONCE THEY GET PUT ON THE ACTUAL TRIAL, THEY FIND THAT THE EXPERIENCE IS VERY POSITIVE. SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO DO IN L.A. COUNTY AND THROUGHOUT THE STATE, I KNOW RECENTLY IN L.A. COUNTY, THEY HAVE IMPLEMENTED WHAT'S CALLED THE "TWENTY MINUTE RULE", MEANING THAT, AFTER TWENTY MINUTES, JURORS WHO HAVE BEEN WAITING IN THE HALLWAY CAN COME BACK INTO THE COURT AND SAY WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE ASSEMBLY ROOM. BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE SOMETIMES JURORS WAITING FOR HOURS NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING ON AND IT WAS VERY DISRESPECTFUL AND NOT SHOWING ENOUGH DEFERENCE FOR THEIR TIME.

THEY ARE PROFESSIONALS AND WE WANT TO NOW LET THEM KNOW THAT ANYTIME THEY'RE WAITING TOO LONG TO LET US KNOW, ANYTIME THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM THAT THEY'VE ALREADY SERVED PREVIOUSLY, THAT'S A REASON FOR EXCUSE. OR IF THEY'VE BEEN THERE FOR THE WHOLE DAY AND THEY'VE GONE ON DIFFERENT PANELS AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PICKED, THAT WOULD SATISFY THE JURY SERVICE. A LOT OF THESE CHANGES HAVE BEEN -- AND GLORIA CAN ATTEST TO IT -- BECAUSE JURORS HAVE BEEN SAYING THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ANNOY US. WE LIKE SERVING, BUT YOU'VE GOT TO WORK ON THESE AREAS.

JESS>> WITH THE ONE DAY-ONE TRIAL REQUIREMENT NOW, WILL EMPLOYERS BE MORE LIABLE TO PROVIDE PAY FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES?

GLORIA GOMEZ>> WE BELIEVE THAT IT CERTAINLY HAS A VERY POSITIVE EFFECT ON EMPLOYERS. IN FACT, OUR LATEST GATHERING OF INFORMATION FROM EMPLOYERS IS THAT THEY'RE VERY MUCH IN FAVOR, KEEPING IN MIND THAT THE OLD TERM OF SERVICE REQUIRED THEM TO GIVE UP THEIR EMPLOYEES FOR A FULL TEN DAYS AND KEEPING IN MIND THAT WE WERE STILL CALLING VERY MANY INDIVIDUALS. SO THE IMPACT WAS FAR GREATER UNDER THE OLD TERM.

NOW WITH THE VARIOUS THINGS THAT THE COURT CAN STILL DO TO ACCOMMODATE SERVICE FOR A JUROR, AN EMPLOYER CAN, FOR INSTANCE, STAGGER -- YOU KNOW, THE PERSONS THAT ARE CALLED FROM THEIR PARTICULAR FIRM CAN BE STAGGERED. THEIR SERVICE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE CONTIGUOUS. THE EMPLOYER DOES HAVE A GREAT DEAL MORE, I THINK, CONTROL OF HOW AND WHEN THAT PERSON IS GOING TO SERVE AND, OF COURSE, THE ONE DAY IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT FINANCIALLY AS A TEN-DAY TERM.

JESS>> AND WE'RE OUT OF TIME, BUT JUST TO REINFORCE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT YOU MUST DO IT, THERE IS A FINE?

KEVIN ROSS>> $1500, AND YOU STILL HAVE TO DO THE SERVICE EVEN IN PAYING THE FINE.

JESS>> NO WAY AROUND IT. ONE DAY. WE CAN DO THAT. ALL RIGHT. OUR THANKS TO JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, AS ALWAYS, AND GLORIA GOMEZ, HEAD OF JURY SERVICE FOR LOS ANGELES COUNTY.

GLORIA GOMEZ>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> IF YOU'D LIKE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT JURY SERVICE, YOU CAN LOG ONTO THEIR WEBSITE ON YOUR SCREEN NOW.

[WWW.COURTINFO.CA.GOV/JURY]

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LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
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JESS>> LAST YEAR'S TERRORIST ATTACKS STIRRED A NEW SENSE OF PATRIOTISM AMONG AMERICANS AND WITH THAT HAS COME A NEW WAVE OF AMERICAN FLAGS. YOU CAN SEE THEM JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE. OF COURSE, THE FLAG HAS PROVIDED INSPIRATION LONG BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11, BUT OVER THE YEARS, ARTISTS HAVE ALTERED THE STARS AND STRIPES TO EXPRESS THE NATIONAL MOOD. TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE WAYS THEY'VE DONE THAT BY LOOKING AT SOME FLAG ART NOW ON DISPLAY.

JOINING US IS CAROL WELLS. SHE IS CURATOR OF A FLAG EXHIBIT AT THE ARMORY NORTHWEST IN PASADENA. WHAT PROMPTED AN EXHIBITION OF ALL THIS FLAG ART?

CAROL WELLS>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I'M CO-CURATOR ALONG WITH NANCY BUCHANAN. WE PULLED THIS OFF TOGETHER WHEN PEOPLE STARTED COMPLAINING ABOUT TOO MANY FLAGS AROUND AND THAT THE FLAG STOOD FOR MANY OTHER THINGS THAN WHAT PEOPLE WERE USING IT FOR. WHEN SEPTEMBER 11 FIRST HAPPENED, WE WERE ALL SHOCKED. WE WERE ALL HURT, WE FELT VIOLATED.

WHEN WE FIRST SAW THEM ON THE FIRE ENGINES AND THE POLICE CARS, WE WERE FEELING FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE POLICE PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLED IN NEW YORK. BUT THEN WE STARTED SEEING THEM TAKING THE PLACE OF THE LAKER FLAGS AND THEN SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE LAKER FLAGS. WE WOULD ASK PEOPLE, "WHY ARE YOU FLYING THEM ON YOUR CAR?" THEY SAID, "BECAUSE WE WANT REVENGE." REVENGE FOR WHAT? REVENGE FOR -- I CAN UNDERSTAND REVENGE FOR THE DAMAGE, BUT WHAT'S HAPPENED SINCE IS WE'VE KILLED MORE CIVILIANS THAN WERE KILLED IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, SO THAT'S WHERE WE STARTED TO DRAW THE LINE.

JESS>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE FLAGS THAT ARE IN THAT EXHIBIT AND PERHAPS YOU CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEM. HERE IS ONE THAT IS --

CAROL WELLS>> -- WELL, THIS IS GEORGE MACHUNAS AND THIS IS "U.S. SURPASSES ALL THE GENOCIDE RECORDS" AND THEN IT PROCEEDS TO LIST, WHICH YOUR VIEWERS CAN SEE. "KUBLAI KHAN MASSACRES TEN PERCENT OF THE NEAR EAST. SPAIN MASSACRES TEN PERCENT OF THE AMERICAN INDIANS. JOSEPH STALIN MASSACRES FIVE PERCENT OF RUSSIANS. NAZIS MASSACRE FIVE PERCENT OF OCCUPIED EUROPEANS AND SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT OF EUROPEAN JEWS. U.S.A. MASSACRES FIVE PERCENT OF SOUTH VIETNAMESE AND SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT OF AMERICAN INDIANS". SO THAT'S A PRETTY STRONG STATEMENT.

JESS>> PRETTY STRONG STATEMENT, AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT MOST AMERICANS WOULD BE OFFENDED BY THAT.

CAROL WELLS>> THEY PROBABLY WOULD BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW THEIR OWN HISTORY. THEY DON'T KNOW THE DAMAGE THAT'S BEEN DONE IN THEIR NAME WITH THEIR TAX DOLLARS.

JESS>> AND THE FLAG IS AN APPROPRIATE SYMBOL FOR EXPRESSING THAT?

CAROL WELLS>> IT'S THE MOST POWERFUL SYMBOL WE HAVE, SO THEREFORE IT IS APPROPRIATE.

JESS>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME MORE.

CAROL WELLS>> THIS WAS ANOTHER ONE FROM -- THIS IS 1969, BERKELEY. IT'S JUST CALLED "HELP". THE FLAG IS UPSIDE DOWN, WHICH IS A DISTRESS SIGN. VERY SIMPLE.

JESS>> OKAY, AND ANOTHER?

CAROL WELLS>> THIS ONE, YOU KNOW, PUSHES THE LINE. THIS IS THE STATUE OF LIBERTY IN THE TOILET. THIS IS THE FLAG IN THE SHAPE OF A TOILET SEAT AND IT'S DONE ALSO IN 1969 AS SILKSCREEN. THIS ONE, AS I SAID, PUSHES THE LIMITS.

JESS>> ART WORLD BURNING THE FLAG.

CAROL WELLS>> ART WORLD BURNING THE FLAG. THIS ONE, HOWEVER, GOES THE OPPOSITE WAY. THIS IS THE REFERENCE TO MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. IT WAS MADE AS A COVER OF A MAGAZINE AFTER HE WAS ASSASSINATED IN 1968 AND THEN IT WAS MADE INTO A POSTER IN 1970. YOU SEE THEY GOT A MARTIN LUTHER KING LOOK-A-LIKE, BUT PAINTED THE FLAG OVER HALF OF HIS FACE. ALL THE TEXT SAYS IS "I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA".

JESS>> VERY STRONG SYMBOLISM IN ALL OF THESE.

CAROL WELLS>> VERY STRONG.

JESS>> THE SWASTIKA.

CAROL WELLS>> WES WILSON, "ARE WE NEXT?" YOU KNOW, THIS WAS ALSO DONE IN BERKELEY IN 1970. THE ONE BEFORE THAT WAS DONE IN NEW YORK.

JESS>> NOW AT THE ARMORY IN PASADENA, WHAT SORT OF RESPONSE ARE YOU GETTING TO THESE?

CAROL WELLS>> WELL, SO FAR, WE'VE BEEN GETTING POSITIVE RESPONSES, BUT I THINK AFTER WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF NEWS COVERAGES LATELY, THEY MAY NOT STAY SO POSITIVE, BUT I HOPE SO.

JESS>> ARE THERE LIMITS?

CAROL WELLS>> AS AN ARTIST, AS AN ART HISTORIAN, AS A CURATOR, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE LIMITS ARE, OKAY? I THINK THERE REALLY AREN'T LIMITS BECAUSE LIMITS MEAN YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT SOMETHING. AND IF YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT SOMETHING, YOU HAVE NO LIMITS. I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE THE LIMITS ARE.

THIS ONE IS "EQUAL RIGHTS CONGRESS FIGHTS POLITICAL ISSUES", SILKSCREEN FROM 1980.

JESS>> IT SHOWS THE STRIPES ARE BARS?

CAROL WELLS>> THE STRIPES ARE BARS.

JESS>> PRISON BARS.

CAROL WELLS>> RIGHT. THIS WAS DONE TO --

JESS>> -- WE HAD AN "ATTICA" FLAG JUST BEFORE THAT.

CAROL WELLS>> WHICH I MISSED, YES. THEN THE NEXT ONE --

JESS>> -- NOW THESE ARE NOT POLITICAL CARTOONS. THESE ARE POSTERS.

CAROL WELLS>> THESE ARE POSTERS. POSTERS ARE SOMETHING DONE IN MULTIPLES, SOMETHING DONE FOR BROAD DISTRIBUTION. THIS WAS DONE -- "BUSH AIDS" FLAG.

JESS>> WHAT WERE THE STARS IN THAT FLAG?

CAROL WELLS>> IN THE --

JESS>> -- "BUSH AIDS" FLAG.

CAROL WELLS>> OH, THE SKULL AND CROSSBONES. THAT'S WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT. THIS WAS A VERY INTERESTING ONE. IF YOU JUST LOOK AT IT, "CENSORSHIP IS UNAMERICAN", IT'S VERY CLEAR. YOU'VE GOT A YOUNG BLACK FACE, YOU'VE GOT A WHITE HAND OVER THE MOUTH OF THE BLACK MAN AND ON THE SLEEVE OF THE --

JESS>> -- AND POST-SEPTEMBER 11 WITH SOME OF THE RESTRICTIONS, THAT SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE ARE RESTRICTIONS ON CIVIL LIBERTIES, THAT'S AN APPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO IT?

CAROL WELLS>> ABSOLUTELY. IN FACT, WE'VE SEEN GRAFFITI THAT WAY. THIS WAS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT [INAUDIBLE] WHEN THEY WERE GETTING CENSORED OFF THE RADIO. VIRGIN RECORDS, ACTUALLY, PLASTERED THAT ONE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. THEN THAT ONE WAS DEFACED A COUPLE OF TIMES TO SAY "CENSORSHIP IS VERY AMERICAN".

JESS>> IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SEPTEMBER 11. THAT JUST GOES BACK TO THE ISSUE OF CITIZENSHIP.

CAROL WELLS>> NONE OF THESE -- THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT WE HAVE THAT HAS TO DO DIRECTLY WITH SEPTEMBER 11. I'VE SEEN FLAGS ALL OVER THE PLACE, BUT THIS ONE REALLY GOT ME BECAUSE IT WAS SPEAKING VERY MUCH TO THE ISSUE, "WE WILL NEVER FORGET". SO I CALLED HIM UP AND I SAID, "LOOK, WE'RE DOING A SHOW ON THE FLAG. COULD WE USE YOUR PIECE?" AND HE SAID YES.

JESS>> BEING ANTI-WAR AND BEING PRO PEACE IS NOT UNAMERICAN?

CAROL WELLS>> IT'S NOT.

JESS>> NOT A LACK OF PATRIOTISM?

CAROL WELLS>> IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT. YOU KNOW, "WHO PROFITS FROM YOUR PRIDE", THIS ONE WAS DONE BY STEVE [BOGSON] AND IT'S GOT ALL THE COMMERCIAL, ALL THE CNN, ETC. ON IT, YOUR COMPETITORS.

JESS>> INTERESTING, BUT NOT WITHOUT CONTROVERSY. OUR THANKS TO CAROL WELLS. THE EXHIBIT IS CALLED "SHOW: THE FLAG" THROUGH JUNE 16 --

CAROL WELLS>> -- YES.

JESS>> -- AT THE ARMORY NORTHWEST IN PASADENA AT 965 NORTH FAIR OAKS AVENUE.

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