7/26/02

LC020726

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> GIVING THE COPS THE BENEFIT OF PRESUMED INNOCENCE IN INGLEWOOD, A VETERAN LAWMAN ASKS FOR CALM IN THE FACE OF DAILY DEMANDS FOR JUSTICE.

CONNIE GORDON>> IT'S A FINE LINE EVEN WITHIN MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS. WHEN EVENTS OCCUR, I TRY TO GIVE BOTH PERSPECTIVES AND PRETTY SOON I GET BEAT UP PRETTY GOOD BECAUSE I'M SUPPORTING THE POLICE, IN THEIR ESTIMATION.

VAL>> TONIGHT WE'LL MEET ANOTHER CANDIDATE FOR THE TOP JOB AT THE LAPD. ART LOPEZ IS A VETERAN OFFICER WHO LEFT LOS ANGELES TO RUN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AT OXNARD AND HE RAN INTO SOME CONTROVERSY THERE. TONIGHT LOPEZ TELLS US HOW HE DEALT WITH THE PROBLEM AND WHY HE NOW WANTS TO COME BACK TO L.A.

JESS>> WHAT HAPPENS TO THE OCEAN ENVIRONMENT WHEN A SHIP SINKS? IN THIS CASE, SOME SEA CREATURES MADE THE WRECKAGE THEIR HOME AND NOW, 1500 FEET UNDERWATER, SCIENTISTS ARE GETTING THEIR FIRST LOOK AT THAT SHIP THAT SANK NEAR SANTA BARBARA FOURTEEN YEARS AGO. TONIGHT THEY'LL SHARE THE PICTURES WITH US.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

ARE WE LOOKING AT ANOTHER RODNEY KING? THAT'S THE QUESTION MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKING EVER SINCE INGLEWOOD POLICE WERE CAUGHT ON TAPE MANHANDLING A SIXTEEN-YEAR-OLD BOY. TWO OF THE OFFICERS INVOLVED HAVE BEEN INDICTED AND COULD FACE POSSIBLE JAIL TIME IF CONVICTED. BUT IS THE COMMUNITY PATIENT ENOUGH AND WILLING TO LET THE LEGAL SYSTEM RUN ITS COURSE?

VAL>> TONIGHT TWO PERSPECTIVES ON THE UPROAR IN INGLEWOOD. WE'LL HEAR FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAKEN TO THE STREETS WITH DAILY CALLS FOR JUSTICE AND WE'LL ALSO HEAR FROM TWO VETERAN LAWMEN, BOTH AFRICAN-AMERICAN. THEY'VE SURVIVED THE RIOTS, RODNEY KING AND DECADES OF RACIAL PREJUDICE AND, IN THEIR MINDS, THE STREETS ARE NO PLACE TO DECIDE THE CASE NOW CONFRONTING INGLEWOOD POLICE.

VAL>> THERE ARE TWO DISTINCT MOODS IN INGLEWOOD THESE DAYS. ON ONE HAND, LIFE SEEMS VERY NORMAL, BUT ONLY A WEEK AGO, THE MOOD WAS VERY DIFFERENT.

>> JUSTICE NOW! JUSTICE NOW!

VAL>> IT WAS SIX DAYS SINCE THE VIDEOTAPE OF SIXTEEN-YEAR-OLD DONOVAN JACKSON GETTING PUNCHED BY AN INGLEWOOD POLICE OFFICER WAS SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE! NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!

VAL>> A COUPLE HUNDRED PEOPLE HAD GATHERED AT INGLEWOOD CITY HALL DEMANDING JUSTICE. THE GATHERING WAS SPONSORED BY NAJEE ALI OF PROJECT ISLAMIC HOPE. IT WAS NOISY AND DISORGANIZED. BUT THE ONE THING THAT CAME THROUGH CLEARLY WAS FRUSTRATION AND ANGER.

>> I'M UPSET RIGHT NOW! I CAN'T THINK. I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS MIKE FOR A LONG TIME AND FORGOT EVERYTHING I WANTED TO SAY! I JUST WANT GEORGE W. BUSH TO COME HERE AND DECLARE WAR ON THESE COPS HERE IN CALIFORNIA AND IN AMERICA!

VAL>> BUT AWAY FROM CITY HALL AND THE BULLHORNS, YOU'LL FIND A VERY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. OFFICERS CONNIE GORDON AND LEONARD ROSS HAVE EACH SPENT MORE THAN THIRTY YEARS IN THE LAPD AND ONLY A FEW WEEKS AWAY FROM RETIREMENT. THEY'VE RISEN IN THE RANKS FROM PATROL OFFICERS TO DETECTIVES AND LIVED THROUGH THE RODNEY KING TRIAL AND RIOTS.

LEONARD ROSS>> I'VE HAD NEGATIVE CONTACTS WITH THE POLICE MYSELF AND I KNOW, COMING FROM THE SOUTH, RACISM WAS A VERY REAL THING. I GREW UP IN SOUTH CENTRAL, YOU KNOW, AND SO I WAS PRIVILEGED -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'D CALL IT PRIVILEGED -- BUT STOPPED BY POLICE BEFORE BEING A POLICE OFFICER.

VAL>> BUT AS POLICE OFFICERS, THEY ALSO KNOW THE LAW.

LEONARD ROSS>> YOU LOOK AT THE TAPE AND THEY SAY IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE, THAT THESE GUYS ARE GUILTY. THEY DON'T TAKE INTO THE ACCOUNT THE ISSUE OR THE CONCEPT OF DUE PROCESS. WE HAVE TO BE SOMEWHAT PATIENT, YOU KNOW. I IMAGINE IF WE WERE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY OR A DICTATORSHIP, WE COULD PROBABLY HAVE A ONE-DAY PROCESS AND OFF WITH THEIR HEADS.

CONNIE GORDON>> IT'S A FINE LINE EVEN WITHIN MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS. WHEN EVENTS OCCUR, I TRY TO GIVE BOTH PERSPECTIVES AND PRETTY SOON I GET BEAT UP PRETTY GOOD BECAUSE I'M SUPPORTING THE POLICE, IN THEIR ESTIMATION.

VAL>> AT THE RALLY, REFERENCES TO RODNEY KING WERE INEVITABLE.

MARGARET PRESCOD>> HERE WE GO AGAIN! DOES THIS REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED A LITTLE WHILE AGO?

VAL>> AND LIKE THE RODNEY KING TAPE, VIDEOTAPE OF THE DONOVAN JACKSON ARREST HAS CONVINCED MANY THAT THE OFFICERS ARE GUILTY.

LEO TERRELL>> NOW LET ME TELL YOU, DISTRICT ATTORNEY STEVE COOLEY, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN! I WANT YOU TODAY TO ARREST JEREMY MORSE TODAY! THEN I WANT YOU GIVE HIM A PRELIMINARY HEARING IN TEN DAYS! THEN I WANT YOU TO HAVE HIM IN TRIAL IN SIXTY DAYS! THEN WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS I WANT YOU TO PUT SOME STRIPES ON THIS GUY BEHIND BARS! JEREMY MORSE SHOULD BE IN JAIL RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW!

LEONARD ROSS>> WHEN I SAY DUE PROCESS, THE OFFICER GAVE AN ALIBI, IF YOU WILL, OR AN EXPLANATION FOR HIS RESPONSE AND, BECAUSE OUR COURTS ARE LIKE THEY ARE, WE DO HAVE TO DISSECT WHAT HE SAID. MAYBE HE MIGHT HAVE GRABBED HIM, MAYBE HE PROBABLY DIDN'T.

VAL>> ALTHOUGH MANY PEOPLE SAY, EVEN IF HE DID, IT DOESN'T JUSTIFY THAT KIND OF PUNCH.

LEONARD ROSS>> WELL, IT MIGHT NOT JUSTIFY, BUT IT WOULD MITIGATE.

CONDI SHEMARINGA JACKSON>> WE WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY, PRECISELY WHAT TYPE OF THREAT A SIXTEEN-YEAR-OLD CHILD EATING A BAG OF POTATO CHIPS POSES TO TRAINED PROFESSIONAL POLICE!

LEONARD ROSS>> THE PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT HE'S SIXTEEN YEARS OLD AND THAT WHATEVER HE WEIGHED AND THAT HE HAD A LEARNING DISABILITY, RIGHT? BUT, SEE, IN TERMS OF FIGHTING CRIMES, THERE ARE PEOPLE JUST LIKE DONOVAN JACKSON WHO ARE SERIOUS OFFENSES TO SOCIETY, WHO ARE KILLERS. IT'S THE ACT THAT WE HAVE TO PROCEED AND ATTACK, THE OFFICERS INVOLVED AND JACKSON. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CONDUCT. WE CAN'T TAKE IT LIKE THAT'S MY CHILD BECAUSE THE COURT SYSTEM -- WE HAVE TO BREAK IT DOWN TO THE REAL THINGS THAT MATTER AND THAT'S THE WRONGNESS OF THE ACT ON BOTH PARTS.

VAL>> AND THERE IS AN IMPORTANT LESSON THEY THINK SHOULD BE LEARNED FROM THE RODNEY KING CASE. DON'T MOVE THE TRIAL OUT OF TOWN. TRY OFFICER JEREMY MORSE IN AN INGLEWOOD COURT. BUT DO THEY THINK HE COULD GET A FAIR TRIAL?

CONNIE GORDON>> YOU KNOW, I DO, AND HERE'S WHY I SAY I DO. BECAUSE RULES OF LAW OR RULES OF EVIDENCE ARE VERY MUCH PROMINENT AND ON THE TABLE. THE TRIAL ITSELF WOULD BE FAIRER TO NO END, I DO BELIEVE.

LEONARD ROSS>> LIKE I SAID, WHEN YOU MOVE IT SOMEPLACE ELSE, IT TAINTS IT. IT'S LIKE WE CAN'T DECIDE? HE DID THE DIRT HERE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL IT. HE DID THE ALLEGED CRIME HERE, BUT WE DON'T GET A BITE AT THE APPLE IN TERMS OF HAVING A SAY IN IT. SOMEBODY ELSE GETS TO DECIDE FOR US WHAT WE THINK OUR LEVEL OF POLICING AND ACCOUNTABILITY SHOULD BE.

VAL>> DESPITE THE CONTROVERSY, INGLEWOOD POLICE ARE GOING ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS AS USUAL. AND DESPITE THE RALLY, NOT EVERYBODY IN INGLEWOOD HAS BEEN CAUGHT UP IN THE CONTROVERSY.

>> YOU HEAR ABOUT THAT BLACK BOY WHO GOT BEAT UP?

>> NO.

VAL>> THE BIG QUESTION LIES AHEAD. IF, BY SOME CHANCE, THE VERDICT IS NOT WHAT THESE ACTIVISTS ARE DEMANDING, WILL THERE BE VIOLENCE?

TONY MOHAMMED>> RIGHT NOW, THERE IS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT DISSATISFACTION AMONG THE PEOPLE AND THIS CITY OF INGLEWOOD AND LOS ANGELES RIGHT NOW COULD BE ON THE BRINK OF A NERVOUS INSURRECTION! IF THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE WILL NOT BE NO PEACE!

CONNIE GORDON>> I DON'T SEE ANOTHER RIOT AS WE DID IN 1992 AFTER RODNEY KING, BUT WHAT I DO SEE ARE ACTS OF VENTING THROUGHOUT PARTS OF THE SOUTHLAND.

VAL>> AND, SAYS OFFICER ROSS, IF THE LEGAL SYSTEM PROVES TO BE FLAWED...

LEONARD ROSS>> ATTACK THE FLAWS IN THE SYSTEM SO THAT YOU GET THE JUSTICE YOU'RE SEEKING. OTHERWISE, IF WE JUST SIT BACK AND CONTINUE TO YELL, YOU'RE DISORGANIZED, YOU'RE LESS CREDIBLE AND YOU'RE NOT EFFECTIVE.

>> JUSTICE NOW! JUSTICE NOW! JUSTICE NOW!

VAL>> I'M VAL ZAVALA FOR LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> THE MARCHES AND PROTESTS STILL GO ON IN INGLEWOOD, BUT THE TONE SEEMS A BIT MORE SUBDUED NOW THAT THE TWO OFFICERS HAVE BEEN INDICTED. BUT IT'S UNCERTAIN WHETHER THE PROTESTORS WILL ACCEPT ANYTHING SHORT OF GUILTY VERDICTS.

VAL, YOU TALKED WITH DETECTIVES ROSS AND GORDON ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES AS BLACK OFFICERS, WHAT, SOME THIRTY YEARS AGO, TWENTY YEARS AGO?

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. IN FACT, DETECTIVE ROSS WORKED WITH POWELL AND KOON, THE TWO OFFICERS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE RODNEY KING BEATING. OFFICER GORDON TOLD A VERY INTERESTING STORY ABOUT HOW THEY DEAL WITH BAD COPS WHEN THEY NOTICE THEM IN THE SAME PATROL CAR OR WHATEVER. HE SAID THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, HE NOTICED THIS ONE OFFICER. ANYTIME HE BROUGHT AN ARRESTEE IN, THE ARRESTEE WAS ALWAYS BRUISED AND BLEEDING. SO ONE TIME, DETECTIVE ROSS HAD TO TRANSPORT ONE OF THE ARRESTEES WHO WAS BEAT UP AND SO FORTH TO A CLINIC AND THE ARRESTEE TOLD HOW HE WAS BEAT UP AND SO FORTH.

SO WHAT DO YOU DO? YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU SAY? SO HE ACTUALLY CONFRONTED THE OFFICER IN THE HALL AND SAID, "YOU WORK IN MY DIVISION. I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS IN YOUR DIVISION. IF YOU EVER HURT ANY OF THEM OR ANY OF THEM GET PICKED UP BY YOU, YOU'RE IN TROUBLE." THE SERGEANT OVERHEARD THEM, IT WENT UP THE HIERARCHY AND, FORTUNATELY, DETECTIVE ROSS WAS SUPPORTED BY HIS CAPTAIN. HE SAID WE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO COME FORWARD. SO IT'S HANDLED OFTEN VERY INFORMALLY.

JESS>> SINCE THEY'VE BOTH BEEN ADVANCED TO DETECTIVES, I ASSUME THINGS HAVE CHANGED A BIT.

VAL>> YES, THEY HAVE. AND I SHOULD SAY, IN TERMS OF THIS SORT OF CONFLICT BETWEEN EMOTIONS ON THE STREET AND THE RATIONALITY OF THE LEGAL SYSTEM, THERE REALLY IS A SYNERGY BETWEEN THE TWO BECAUSE YOU NEED PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED, YOU NEED THAT SORT OF EMOTIONAL INVOLVEMENT TO GET PEOPLE CONCERNED. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU DO NEED FOR THE LEGAL PROCESS TO GO FORTH.

JESS>> AND WE COULD NOTE THAT ONE OF THE FIRST CALLS FOR JUSTICE AND DEMAND FOR THESE OFFICERS TO BE PUNISHED CAME FROM ROOSEVELT DORN, THE MAYOR OF INGLEWOOD, A FORMER SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

WELL, MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA HOME PRICES ARE STILL SETTING NEW RECORDS AND THERE'S NO END IN SIGHT. BUT IS THE CURRENT BOOM HURTING MORE PEOPLE THAN IT'S HELPING?

>> I MEAN, WE'VE SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATED AT TIMES JUST PICKING UP AND MOVING AWAY FROM CALIFORNIA JUST BECAUSE IT WOULD BE THE ONLY WAY IN OUR MINDS THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD A HOME FOR OUR FAMILIES.

JESS>> HE COULD BECOME THE FIRST LATINO TO SERVE AS CHIEF OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT FIRST ART LOPEZ HAS TO MAKE IT TO THE FINAL ROUND OF SELECTION AND, AT LAST COUNT, HE'S GOT PLENTY OF COMPETITION. LOPEZ ALREADY KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO RUN A POLICE DEPARTMENT. HE'S IN CHARGE OF THE OXNARD PD, A POSITION HE TOOK AFTER MANY YEARS WITH THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. LOPEZ HAS ALSO GOTTEN THE TASTE OF WHAT IT'S LIKE TO DEAL WITH A MAJOR CONTROVERSY. HIS OFFICERS HAVE COME UNDER FIRE FOR THEIR USE OF DEADLY FORCE.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS OXNARD POLICE CHIEF, ART LOPEZ. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TO LIFE AND TIMES.

ART LOPEZ>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. I APPRECIATE IT.

JESS>> SHORTLY AFTER YOU TOOK OVER AT OXNARD, YOU HAD FIVE OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTINGS, THREE OF WHICH INVOLVED PEOPLE WHO WERE MENTALLY ILL?

ART LOPEZ>> ACTUALLY, IT WAS SIX OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTINGS AND, YES, THERE WERE THREE INDIVIDUALS THAT WE SUSPECT THAT WERE MENTALLY ILL.

JESS>> HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH THAT? THERE MUST HAVE BEEN GREAT PUBLIC OUTCRY.

ART LOPEZ>> OH, ABSOLUTELY. BUT LET ME PREFACE MY REMARKS BY SAYING THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OCCURRED IS THAT WE HADN'T HAD A SHOOTING IN THE CITY OF OXNARD FOR A THREE-YEAR PERIOD PRIOR TO THAT AND ONE YEAR AFTER THAT.

VAL>> AN OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTING?

ART LOPEZ>> OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTING. SO AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE MADE SOME TREMENDOUS CHANGES. WHAT HAPPENED WAS IS THAT WE TURNED A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY INTO ACTUALLY MAKING THE ORGANIZATION BETTER, MUCH BETTER. WHAT WE DID IS WE IMPLEMENTED CRISIS INTERVENTION TEAMS. THESE ARE TEAMS OF SPECIALLY TRAINED OFFICERS WHO ACTUALLY GO OUT TO THE SCENES WHERE WE SUSPECT THAT WE HAVE MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE. THEY TAKE CHARGE AND NEGOTIATE WITH THOSE INDIVIDUALS. THEY HAVE SPECIAL TRAINING, AS I SAID BEFORE. AS A RESULT OF THAT, THEY PRESENT A CALMING EFFECT WITH THE INDIVIDUALS AND ARE VERY LIKELY, IN MOST CASES, TO BE ABLE TO DE-ESCALATE THE SITUATION.

WE ALSO CHANGED THE POLICIES THAT WE HAVE INSIDE THE ORGANIZATION. WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE BECOME MORE SENSITIVE TO THESE TYPES OF ISSUES. WE HAVE COMMAND INTERVENTION IN THESE TYPES OF CASES. WHAT WE'VE ALSO DONE IS WE'VE PROVIDED OUR OFFICERS WITH LESS LETHAL TYPE OF ARMAMENTS OUT IN THE FIELD, SO WE HAVE THOSE OUT THERE THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM. AND AS A RESULT OF THE SHOOTING, WE ALSO WENT OUT AND PROVIDED TRAINING TO EVERYBODY INSIDE THE ORGANIZATION, CERTAINLY NOT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE'VE DONE WITH THE CRISIS INTERVENTION TEAM OFFICERS, BUT WE'VE GIVEN THEM TRAINING SO THAT THEY HAVE AN IDEA AS TO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ENCOUNTERING WITH THE MENTALLY ILL. SO IT'S GIVEN US AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE A LOT BETTER AS AN ORGANIZATION.

VAL>> ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES FACING THE LAPD IS RECRUITMENT. THEY'VE LAUNCHED A BIG RECRUITMENT CAMPAIGN AND IT'S BEEN SUCCESSFUL TO SOME EXTENT. YET THERE IS STILL A NET LOSS OF OFFICERS DESPITE THE IMPROVEMENT IN THE RECRUITING TECHNIQUES. THEY'RE STILL, I THINK, SHORT 1,100 OFFICERS. HOW WOULD YOU IMPROVE THINGS EVEN MORE?

ART LOPEZ>> WELL, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT'S INVOLVED WITH THIS IS CERTAINLY THE MORALE ISSUE. I THINK THAT THE NEW CHIEF HAS TO HAVE THAT AS JOB ONE. THE INDIVIDUAL IS GOING TO HAVE TO GO IN THERE AND PROVIDE AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE IT'S BOTH CHALLENGING AND REWARDING TO COME TO WORK ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS BECAUSE I THINK THAT A LOT OF FOLKS ARE NOT COMING TO THE ORGANIZATION, ARE NOT COMING TO THE AGENCY, AS A RESULT OF SOME OF THE STORIES THEY'VE HEARD ABOUT THE CORP MORALE. BUT I THINK THAT WHAT LAPD IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO IS START LOOKING OUTSIDE OF THE BOX IN TERMS OF THE WAY THAT THEY GO ABOUT RECRUITING.

I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE LEFT THE AGENCY AS LATERALS INTO OTHER AGENCIES. I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT GETTING THOSE INDIVIDUALS BACK, LOOKING AT SOME OF THE RETIREES THAT ARE NOT YET FIFTY-FIVE, BUT THAT HAVE LESS THAN THREE YEARS IN RETIREMENT, TO TRY TO GET THOSE INDIVIDUALS BACK. AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS THAT I THINK ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE BOX. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THINGS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY IN THE WAY THAT THEY GO ABOUT GOING BACK OUT AND RECRUITING OFFICERS.

JESS>> MAYOR HAHN HAS, IN RECENT DAYS, SAID THAT THEY'RE HAVING SOME SUCCESS IN GETTING OFFICERS WHO'VE LEFT THE LAPD TO COME BACK. I THINK SIX HUNDRED LETTERS WERE SENT OUT AND PERHAPS AS MANY AS SIXTY HAVE INDICATED AN INTEREST IN RETURNING. YOU'VE BEEN INTERESTED IN RETURNING TO THE LAPD (LAUGHTER).

ART LOPEZ>> (LAUGHTER) ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY, AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TO SEND ME A LETTER (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> BUT THE SIZE OF THE DEPARTMENTS ARE HUGE. I MEAN, OXNARD HAS ABOUT TWO HUNDRED PEOPLE, AND HOW BIG IS THE LAPD? IS IT 10,000?

ART LOPEZ>> ACTUALLY, IT'S 14,000 WHEN YOU ADD THE --

VAL>> -- 14,000?

ART LOPEZ>> 14,000, YES.

VAL>> HUGE DIFFERENCE.

JESS>> BUT YOU'VE ALSO GOT TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE LAPD.

ART LOPEZ>> EXACTLY, AND I WAS A SIXTH STAFF OFFICER IN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE VERY HIGHEST RANKS OF THE ORGANIZATION, FOR SIX YEARS. SO I HAVE A TASTE OF WHAT IT IS TO RUN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. LET ME TELL YOU, I THINK THAT RUNNING A SMALLER AGENCY CAN BE ALMOST AS CHALLENGING AS RUNNING A LARGE AGENCY JUST SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE POLITICS. THE POLITICS CAN BE JUST AS ROUGH ON THE SMALL-TOWN LEVEL AS THEY CAN IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> WILL YOUR ETHNICITY BE A FACTOR?

ART LOPEZ>> WELL, I HOPE IT ISN'T, I HOPE IT ISN'T. I KNOW MAYOR HAHN HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS AND HE SAID, HEY LISTEN, WHAT I WANT TO GET IS THE BEST PERSON TO BE THE NEXT CHIEF OF POLICE, AND I BELIEVE THAT. THE FACT THAT I'M LATINO JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE AFTERTHOUGHT. I MEAN, I WANT TO BE THOUGHT OF AS A WELL-QUALIFIED INDIVIDUAL FOR THE JOB OF CHIEF OF POLICE IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES WHO JUST HAPPENS TO BE LATINO.

VAL>> I KNOW ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT SEEMS TO SORT OF BE IN FASHION AND OUT OF FASHION IS COMMUNITY POLICING. YOU KNOW, CERTAIN CHIEFS LIKE IT, OTHERS DON'T, IT COMES AND GOES. WHAT'S YOUR POSITION ON COMMUNITY POLICING?

ART LOPEZ>> WELL, I THINK THAT COMMUNITY POLICING HAS TO BE THE PRINCIPAL OPERATING PHILOSOPHY OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. IF I COME BACK AS THE CHIEF OF POLICE, CERTAINLY THAT'S WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S BEEN THE SUCCESS OF A NUMBER OF CITIES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES, PARTICULARLY OXNARD. IN THE LAST THREE YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN THERE, WE'VE HAD ALMOST TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT REDUCTION IN PART ONE CRIMES AND I CAN'T ATTRIBUTE THAT TO JUST WHAT THE POLICE OFFICERS ARE DOING. I THINK THAT --

VAL>> -- WHAT'S PART ONE CRIMES?

ART LOPEZ>> OH, I'M SORRY. PART ONE CRIMES ARE HOMICIDES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO AND INCLUDING LARCENIES. THAT INCLUDES ALL THAT RANGE OF CRIMES. SO I THINK THAT, AS A RESULT OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS IN CRIME. I THINK THAT YOU WON'T MAINTAIN THAT -- THAT'S WITH A RELATIVELY SMALL DEPARTMENT, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THE RATIO OF POLICE OFFICERS TO PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT, WITH A LARGER DEPARTMENT, WITH A LOWER RATIO OF OFFICERS TO PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, WE COULD HAVE A REAL GOOD CHANCE OF CONTINUING TO REDUCE CRIME IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> WELL, ART LOPEZ, OXNARD POLICE CHIEF, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN. WE'LL BE WATCHING THIS PROCESS VERY CAREFULLY.

JESS>> THANKS FOR JOINING US.

ART LOPEZ>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

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JESS>> IT WAS A FREIGHTER CALLED THE PAC BARONESS AND, IN 1987, IT COLLIDED WITH ANOTHER SHIP OFF THE COAST OF SANTA BARBARA. THE BARONESS AND ITS CARGO OF COPPER AND OIL SANK IN 1,500 FEET OF WATER AND, EVER SINCE, ENVIRONMENTALISTS HAVE WORRIED THAT THE WRECK MIGHT BE POISONING MARINE LIFE.

VAL>> BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE CASE. SCIENTISTS HAVE JUST VISITED THE SITE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FOURTEEN YEARS AND THEY HAVE SEEN AN ABUNDANCE OF SEA LIFE SWIMMING THROUGH THE WRECKAGE. THERE'S STILL MORE RESEARCH TO BE DONE, BUT THESE PICTURES SHOW HOW MANY CREATURES HAVE BEEN SETTING UP HOUSE ON THE PAC BARONESS.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS SARAH FANGMAN, WHO'S RESEARCH COORDINATOR WITH THE CHANNEL ISLANDS NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY. WHAT'S YOUR JUDGMENT? THAT CARGO OF COPPER COULD BE TOXIC, COULD IT NOT?

SARAH FANGMAN>> YES, IT COULD, ALTHOUGH WE WERE REALLY RELIEVED TO SEE THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF MARINE ORGANISMS LIVING THERE WHEN WE TOOK THE REMOTELY OPERATED VEHICLE, THE ROV, DOWN AND TOOK A LOOK AT IT. NO ONE HAD BEEN THERE IN FOURTEEN YEARS, SO WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE'D FIND. THANKFULLY, WE WERE ABLE TO FIND THINGS LIVING THERE.

VAL>> SO WHAT WAS THIS EXPEDITION? THE ROV IS WHAT?

SARAH FANGMAN>> REMOTELY OPERATED VEHICLE. SO WE'RE STAYING ON THE SHIP AND IT GOES DOWN TO 1,500 FEET AND IT HAS CAMERAS --

VAL>> -- SO THERE'S NOBODY IN IT?

SARAH FANGMAN>> NO ONE IN IT. THERE ARE CAMERAS ON IT, SO WE WERE TAKING A LOOK AT THE PICTURES ON THE SHIP AS THE INSTRUMENT IS DOWN IN THE WATER NAVIGATING AROUND IT.

JESS>> WELL, WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST WHEN A SHIP SINKS OCCASIONALLY, THE WRECKAGE WILL BECOME A HAVEN FOR SEA LIFE. BUT THE CARGO ON THIS SHIP WAS THE BIG QUESTION MARK, WASN'T IT?

SARAH FANGMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. THERE WERE 21,000 METRIC TONS OF COPPER.

JESS>> THIS IS HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO GET THE PICTURES?

SARAH FANGMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S THE ROV GOING INTO THE WATER JUST ABOVE THE PAC BARONESS. AS YOU CAN SEE, THE WEATHER THAT DAY WAS CLOUDY JUST AS IT WAS THE DAY THAT THESE SHIPS COLLIDED. IT WAS REDUCED VISIBILITY, WHICH WAS WHY THE WRECK OCCURRED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

VAL>> SO YOU WENT DOWN AND WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU --

SARAH FANGMAN>> WELL, WE WERE ACTUALLY ABLE TO FIND IT. WE WERE HAPPY ABOUT THAT. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BIG WRECK, BUT IT'S ALSO A BIG OCEAN. FIRST OF ALL, WE WERE VERY RELIEVED JUST TO SEE THE THING AND MOVE INTO IT. BECAUSE THE ROV IS CONNECTED TO THE SHIP WITH A CABLE AND THE SHIP HAS ALL KINDS OF SUPERSTRUCTURE, CRANES AND LINES AND CHAINS ON IT, YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL APPROACHING IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO GET ENTANGLED AND END UP BEING ANCHORED TO THE SHIPWRECK. SO AS WE MOVE IN VERY CLOSELY, WE SEE WHAT WE CAN SEE AND THEN BACK AWAY AGAIN SO THAT WE DON'T END UP STAYING THERE.

JESS>> WHAT ATTRACTS SEA LIFE TO WRECKAGES SUCH AS THIS?

SARAH FANGMAN>> WELL, IT'S HABITAT. IT'S A PLACE TO HIDE. SO WE WERE ABLE TO SEE ORGANISMS THERE THAT WE WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN IN THAT SAME EXACT SPOT HAD THERE NOT BEEN A SHIPWRECK THERE. THERE WERE CERTAIN ROCKFISHES THAT WERE ACTUALLY LIVING ON THE WRECK THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SEEN IN A HABITAT THAT'S LIKE THIS.

JESS>> LOOKING AT ALL THIS HAIRY COATING OF THE VESSEL, IS THERE THE LIKELIHOOD OR THE POSSIBILITY THAT THAT SEALS OFF THE CARGO FROM CONTAMINATING THE SURROUNDING WATER?

SARAH FANGMAN>> NOT LIKELY THAT THAT DOES, BUT WHAT WE WERE REAL SURPRISED TO FIND WAS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF SEDIMENTATION THAT'S OCCURRED IN THE YEARS SINCE THE WRECK WENT DOWN. MUCH OF THE WRECKAGE, AS YOU CAN SEE, IS BURIED. IT'S BEEN COVERED OVER THE YEARS BY JUST LOTS OF -- YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF IN THE WATER AND THAT LANDS DOWN IN THE WRECK.

JESS>> SO YOU WOULD OPPOSE ANY EFFORT TO RE-FLOAT THE VESSEL OR TO GET THE WRECKAGE OUT OF THERE?

SARAH FANGMAN>> IT'S REALLY TOO EARLY TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. VISUALLY LOOKING AT IT, YOU CAN TELL CERTAIN THINGS, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO DO ANALYSIS OF THE SAMPLES THAT WE GATHERED WHILE WE WERE THERE TO TELL, WELL, WHAT LEVEL OF IMPACT MIGHT THIS WRECK BE HAVING AND THEN YOU MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHAT YOU MIGHT DO ABOUT IT, SO IT'S A LITTLE EARLY TO TELL.

JESS>> BUT FROM WHAT WE SEE, IT SEEMS TO BE A POSITIVE IMPACT RATHER THAN A NEGATIVE?

SARAH FANGMAN>> IT'S ENCOURAGING. I CAUTIOUSLY SAY THAT IT'S ENCOURAGING. IN ADDITION TO GOING TO THE PAC BARONESS, WE TOOK THE ROV TO AN AREA ABOUT TEN MILES AWAY WITH A SIMILAR HABITAT WITH THE INTENTION OF TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT SHOULD BE IN A SPOT LIKE THIS SO THAT WE CAN SAY, OKAY, WELL, THE PAC BARONESS AREA LOOKS LIKE THIS. ANOTHER UN-IMPACTED AREA LOOKS SIMILAR OR DIFFERENT AND, IN FACT, IT LOOKED DIFFERENT IN SUBTLE WAYS. SO WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO DETERMINE ARE THOSE DIFFERENCES THE RESULT OF THE WRECK BEING THERE OR ARE THEY THE RESULT OF SOME NATURAL OCCURRENCE?

VAL>> AND YOU ALSO TOOK A LOT OF SEDIMENT SAMPLES, RIGHT?

SARAH FANGMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO TELL FROM THEM?

SARAH FANGMAN>> WE TOOK SEDIMENT SAMPLES RIGHT AROUND THE WRECK AND, AGAIN, IN A SPOT AWAY FROM IT USING AN INSTRUMENT CALLED A GRAB SAMPLER. IT'S GOING DOWN THROUGH THE WATER COLUMN AND IT TAKES A PIECE OF THE SEDIMENTS. THEN WE ANALYZE THOSE TO LOOK AT WHO'S LIVING IN THE SEDIMENTS AND IS THERE HYDROCARBONS, OIL AND FUEL FROM THE WRECK STILL IN THE SEDIMENTS AND IS THERE COPPER IN THE SEDIMENTS, WHICH IS WHAT THE SHIP CONTAINED.

JESS>> AND DID YOU FIND THAT?

SARAH FANGMAN>> WE'RE STILL PROCESSING THE SAMPLES. WE ONLY JUST GOT BACK FROM THE TRIP A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, SO THE SAMPLES ARE BEING PROCESSED. AS YOU SEE HERE, THAT'S THE MUD. SCIENTISTS DID THIS EXACT SAME SURVEY RIGHT AFTER THE SHIP WENT DOWN AND THEY SAW EVIDENCE OF THE OIL AND THINGS VISUALLY IN THE SEDIMENTS. WE DID NOT SEE THAT, SO IT WILL BE REAL INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT OUR ANALYSIS IN THE LAB TELLS US ABOUT THE SAMPLES. WE'RE HOPING THAT THE CONTAMINANTS HAVE BEEN CAPPED, OR CONTAINED, BY ALL THE SEDIMENTS THAT HAVE LANDED THERE IN THE YEARS SINCE IT WENT DOWN.

JESS>> NOW THE PAC BARONESS WRECKAGE DOES NOT POSE A THREAT TO NAVIGATION?

SARAH FANGMAN>> NO.

JESS>> IT'S DEEP ENOUGH THAT IT ISN'T A PROBLEM?

SARAH FANGMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT. AND FISHERMEN KNOW THAT IT'S THERE, SO THEY DON'T FISH THERE. THEY DON'T WANT TO GET THEIR NETS HUNG UP ON IT. WE DIDN'T SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF ANY FISHING NETS CAUGHT ON IT, SO IT'S CLEAR THAT THEY KNOW TO AVOID THAT SPOT.

VAL>> APPARENTLY, SOME FISHERMEN SAY THAT THEY DON'T CATCH AS MANY FISH AROUND THIS AREA. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'RE LOOKING INTO IF THAT'S TRUE?

SARAH FANGMAN>> YES, THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY WE WENT TO EXPLORE THIS WRECK. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONCERN THAT IT MAY BE HAVING A NEGATIVE IMPACT TO THE WATERS RIGHT IMMEDIATELY AROUND IT AND FURTHER OFFSHORE AND AS FAR AWAY AS THE CHANNEL ISLAND SANCTUARY. BECAUSE I'M WITH THE SANCTUARY, WE WANTED TO EXPLORE IF THERE IS MERIT TO THESE CLAIMS. AS I SAY, IT'S STILL A LITTLE EARLY TO DETERMINE THAT.

VAL>> BUT PLENTY OF LIFE CLINGING TO THE WRECKAGE, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

SARAH FANGMAN>> THAT'S RIGHT.

JESS>> SARAH FANGMAN, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US AND THANKS FOR TAKING US ON THIS UNDERSEA TOUR.

SARAH FANGMAN>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

VAL>> FASCINATING.

JESS>> IF YOU'D LIKE MORE INFORMATION ON THE CHANNEL ISLANDS NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY AND THE SANCTUARY QUEST MISSION, YOU CAN LOG ONTO THE WEBSITE NOW ON YOUR SCREEN.

[WWW.CINMS.NOS.NOAA.GOV]

VAL>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. IF YOU WANT TO HEAR SOMETHING YOU MISSED, WE INVITE YOU TO CHECK OUT WWW.KCET.ORG FOR STREAMING AUDIO AND TRANSCRIPTS OF PAST PROGRAMS. IT'S A WONDERFUL RESOURCE, SO GO CHECK IT OUT.

JESS>> THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, GOOD NIGHT AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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