9/9/02

LC020909

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> AN INVADER IS CREEPING UP ALONG THE CALIFORNIA COAST AND NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW QUITE HOW TO STOP IT.

LEAH SANDERS>> THAT GREEN FERN-LOOKING PLANT REALLY ISN'T A FERN AT ALL. IT'S ACTUALLY A KILLER ALGAE AND IT'S IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA'S WATERS.

R.J. PLENT>> THE PROBLEM WITH IT, IT WOULD GROW SO FAST THAT IT WOULD START OVERTAKING THE WHOLE REEF AND EVENTUALLY, IF IT'S LEFT UNCHECKED, IT'LL SMOTHER OUT EVERYTHING.

VAL>> LAWYERS. THEY'RE THE ONES WE LOVE TO HATE, BUT WHERE WOULD O.J. HAVE BEEN WITHOUT THE DREAM TEAM? TONIGHT WE'LL LOOK AT THE PERILS OF REPRESENTING YOURSELF IN COURT. JUDGE KEVIN ROSS EXPLAINS HOW GOOD LAWYERS MAY BE WORTH THEIR FAT FEES.

JESS>> THE FIRST MAPS OF THE WORLD SHOWED THE EARTH WAS FLAT, BUT THE FIRST MAPS OF LOS ANGELES SHOWED WHERE TO GET YOUR CAR FIXED WHEN IT BROKE DOWN. TONIGHT WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE EARLY CALIFORNIA MAPS AS DRAWN BY THE AUTO CLUB NEARLY A CENTURY AGO. ONE EVEN TRACED THE PATH OF A SOLAR ECLIPSE.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW. WHOEVER DREAMED WE'D BE SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF TAXPAYERS' MONEY TRYING TO KILL A PLANT? WELL, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING ALONG THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COAST AND, SO FAR, THE PLANT IS WINNING.

VAL>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KILLER ALGAE. THAT MAY SOUND LIKE SOMETHING FROM A HOLLYWOOD CREATURE FEATURE, BUT THIS PLANT IS ALL TOO REAL AND, AS LEAH SANDERS REPORTS, IT'S TAKING A HUGE TOLL ON SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA'S UNDERSEA ECOLOGY.

LEAH SANDERS>> YOU'RE LOOKING AT VIDEOTAPE SHOT BY A BIOLOGIST IN THIS LAGOON IN CARLSBAD. THAT GREEN FERN-LOOKING PLANT ISN'T REALLY A FERN AT ALL. IT'S ACTUALLY AN ALGAE THAT KILLS MARINE LIFE BY ESSENTIALLY SMOTHERING IT. IT'S CALLED CAULERPA TAXIFOLIA, OR FEATHER CAULERPA. R.J. PLENT IS AN AQUARIUM HOBBYIST AND HE USED TO DECORATE HIS TANKS WITH THE ALGAE.

R.J. PLENT>> IT'S GREEN. IT'S REALLY LUSH, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO HAVE LUSH, GREEN COLORS IN THEIR AQUARIUM, AND FEATHER CAULERPA, BASICALLY, THAT'S WHAT IT WILL GIVE YOU.

LEAH SANDERS>> PLENT IS ALSO A REEF EXPERT AND SAYS, ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, HE STOPPED USING THE ALGAE AFTER THINGS STARTING GETTING OUT OF CONTROL.

R.J. PLENT>> THE PROBLEM WITH IT, IT WOULD GROW SO FAST THAT IT WOULD START OVERTAKING THE WHOLE REEF AND EVENTUALLY, IF IT'S LEFT UNCHECKED, IT WILL SMOTHER OUT EVERYTHING.

LEAH SANDERS>> LIKE IN THE MEDITERRANEAN WHERE IT TURNED 15,000 ACRES OF SEABED INTO A DEAD ZONE WHERE NO SEA LIFE CAN EXIST. BIOLOGISTS SAY, IN THE 1980'S, IT SPILLED INTO THE WATERS ACCIDENTALLY FROM THE OCEANOGRAPHIC MUSEUM IN MONACO. PLENT SAYS HE WASN'T SURPRISED WHEN THE FEATHER CAULERPA ALGAE TURNED UP IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA'S COASTAL WATERS, MARKING THE FIRST INFESTATION IN THE NATION. HE SAYS MANY CONSUMERS WHO GOT HOLD OF IT DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DISPOSE OF IT.

R.J. PLENT>> AND I EXPLAINED TO THEM THAT, AFTER YOU'RE DONE PRUNING IT, YOU GOT TO PUT IT IN A BAG. YOU WRAP IT UP AND YOU THROW IT OUT. YOU DON'T FLUSH IT DOWN THE TOILET. AGAIN, LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR DON'T EVEN CARE.

LEAH SANDERS>> PLENT SAYS A LOT OF AQUARIUM STORE OWNERS STOPPED SELLING THE ALGAE ON THEIR OWN, FEARING THE DAMAGE IT COULD DO TO THE OCEAN ENVIRONMENT AND THEIR BUSINESS. HE SAYS THIS SILENT PREDATOR SUCKS NUTRIENTS AND OXYGEN OUT OF THE WATER, BLANKETING ROCKS, SAND AND MUD, PREVENTING MARINE ANIMALS FROM EATING AND BREEDING.

R.J. PLENT>> YOU KNOW, ANYBODY WHO LIKES TO DIVE OR ENJOYS THE OCEAN OR ENJOYS TO SEE ALL THE DOLPHINS AND EVERYTHING, WHEN YOU AFFECT ONE ANIMAL OR A FEW IMPORTANT ANIMALS IN A FOOD CHAIN, EVENTUALLY IT WILL TRICKLE DOWN AND AFFECT EVERYTHING ELSE. AND AS FAR AS INDUSTRY IS CONCERNED, IT GROWS AT SUCH AN ALARMING RATE THAT ANY INDUSTRY THAT IS OUT IN THE WATER WILL GET THIS STUFF. IF IT'S OIL DERRICKS, IT WILL EVENTUALLY GROW ON THAT, AND INTAKES, ANYTHING THAT IS OUT IN THE OCEAN. IT WILL GROW ON ANYTHING.

LEAH SANDERS>> RACHEL WOODFIELD IS THE BIOLOGIST HEADING A LOCAL FEATHER CAULERPA ERADICATION EFFORT. BY CHANCE, DIVERS LAST SUMMER FOUND THE ALGAE AT AQUA HEDIONDA, A LAGOON IN CARLSBAD.

RACHEL WOODFIELD>> WHEN WE FIRST FOUND IT IN CARLSBAD, IT WAS THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER. WHAT WE FOUND IT DOING THERE WAS GROWING REALLY FAST, REALLY THICK, CARPETING THE BOTTOM, TAKING OVER THE EEL GRASS BED THAT'S GROWING NATIVE IN THAT HARBOR.

LEAH SANDERS>> ABOUT FIVE ACRES OF THE LAGOON WAS AFFECTED BY THE ALGAE. MONTHS LATER, ANOTHER BIOLOGIST FOUND ABOUT SEVEN ACRES OF IT IN TWO PONDS NEAR HUNTINGTON HARBOR. WOODFIELD BELIEVES THE CAULERPA GOT HERE BY PEOPLE WHO DUMPED THE CONTENTS OF THEIR AQUARIUMS, NOT KNOWING THE DAMAGE THEY WERE DOING. FEATHER CAULERPA IS NATIVE TO TROPICAL WATERS IN PLACES LIKE FLORIDA AND THE CARIBBEAN, BUT AS WOODFIELD HAS FOUND OUT, IT THRIVES ANYWHERE.

RACHEL WOODFIELD>> EVEN AS IT'S GETTING COLDER, WE'RE SEEING THAT IT'S FRAGMENTING ITSELF AND A VERY, VERY SMALL PIECE, EVEN A CENTIMETER, A MILLIMETER, HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED TO SORT OF FLOAT AWAY AND RE-SETTLE AND THEN RE-SPROUT THE PARTS THAT IT NEEDS. IF THE FROND FLOATS AWAY, IT SPROUTS A NEW STEM, OR EVEN A TINY PIECE OF STEM CAN RE-SPROUT.

LEAH SANDERS>> GROWING JUST UNDER HALF AN INCH A DAY AND PUTTING HABITATS UNIQUE TO OUR COASTLINE IN JEOPARDY.

RACHEL WOODFIELD>> WE HAVE KELP BEDS HERE THAT ARE VERY UNIQUE TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. THEY HOUSE A LOT OF SPECIES OF FISH AND MAMMALS AND NEAT PLANTS AND LOBSTER, SAND BASS, HALIBUT. ALL OF THOSE THINGS BREED, SAY, IN THE EEL GRASS BEDS. IF THIS CAULERPA DISPLACES THE NATIVE HABITAT, THESE SPECIES THAT AREN'T INVOLVED TO GROW UP WITH CAULERPA WON'T BE ABLE TO BREED THERE ANYMORE. YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE TO LOSE, SAY, HALIBUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A RECREATIONAL AND COMMERCIALLY IMPORTANT SPECIES.

LEAH SANDERS>> THIS IS WHAT DIVERS ARE DOING UNDER WATER, CAREFULLY SQUARING OFF AFFECTED AREAS WITH PIPING, THEN PUTTING DOWN A TARP COVERING FILLED WITH CHLORINE TABLETS. THE ALGAE IS TRAPPED UNDERNEATH AND KILLED BY THE CHEMICAL. IN CARLSBAD, THE INITIAL CAULERPA ERADICATION PROJECT IS COMPLETE, BUT HERE IN THE HUNTINGTON HARBOR AREA, IT WILL PROBABLY BE THE END OF MARCH WHEN THE WORK IS DONE.

BUT BIOLOGISTS SAY IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER FIVE YEARS OF MONITORING TO MAKE SURE THIS MUTANT ALGAE IS GONE. THE STATE WATER QUALITY CONTROL BOARD IS WORKING ON A LONG-TERM PLAN TO SURVEY ALL OF CALIFORNIA'S COASTLINE, EVEN DOWN INTO PARTS OF MEXICO. MARC DOALSON IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL SPECIALIST WITH THE BOARD AND SAYS NO ONE WANTS WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MEDITERRANEAN TO HAPPEN HERE.

MARC DOALSON>> IT'S JUST RECENTLY BEEN DISCOVERED IN TUNISIA, ON THE NORTH COAST OF AFRICA, SO IT'S SPREADING ALL AROUND. BEFORE, IT WAS ISOLATED TO SPAIN, ITALY, FRANCE AND CROATIA. NOW THAT IT'S IN TUNISIA, THEY'RE THINKING THAT IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO KEEP SPREADING THE REST OF THE WAY AROUND THE MEDITERRANEAN AND THEY'RE AFRAID ALSO THAT IT MIGHT GET OUT IN THE ATLANTIC AND START SPREADING UP AND DOWN THE ATLANTIC COAST OF AFRICA AND EUROPE.

LEAH SANDERS>> AND NOW HUNTINGTON BEACH ASSEMBLYMAN, TOM HARMON, IS SPONSORING AN ANTI-ALGAE BILL IN SACRAMENTO AIMED AT MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO DUMP THE ALGAE INTO ANY BODY OF WATER. IMPORTS AND SALES OF CAULERPA IS ALREADY ILLEGAL UNDER THE 1999 FEDERAL NOXIOUS WEED ACT, BUT SALES CONTINUE ON THE INTERNET. RACHEL WOODFIELD BELIEVES, IF PASSED, AN ANTI-DUMPING LAW CAN ONLY HELP.

RACHEL WOODFIELD>> WHETHER IT'S ABLE TO COMPLETELY STEM THE TIDE OF CAULERPA MOVING AROUND IN THE AQUARIUM TRADE, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE, BUT IT WILL DRAW ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS A SERIOUS RISK.

LEAH SANDERS>> BUT R.J. PLENT SAYS A NEW LAW IS NOT THE WAY TO STOP THE SPREAD OF THE KILLER ALGAE. THE ONLY WAY TO ATTACK IT IS FROM ITS SOURCE.

R.J. PLENT>> YOU CAN'T ENFORCE IT. SOMEBODY FLUSHES IT DOWN THE TOILET, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PROVE THAT IT CAME FROM THAT PERSON'S HOUSE? THE PROBLEM SHOULD BE MORE FOCUSED IN ON TRYING TO ERADICATE IT OR CUT DOWN THE NUMBER OF CAULERPA THAT'S GROWING OUT IN THE WILD RIGHT NOW AND GET THAT UNDER CONTROL.

JESS>> KILLER ALGAE HAS A FEW NATURAL PREDATORS, BUT IT GROWS FASTER THAN MARINE LIFE CAN EAT IT AND, AS LEAH'S REPORT INDICATED, DREDGING ISN'T MUCH OF A SOLUTION SINCE THE ALGAE BREAKS APART VERY EASILY. EVEN THE TINIEST OF THOSE BROKEN PIECES HAS A WAY OF SETTLING INTO THE SAND AND CREATING BRAND NEW PLANTS. SO FAR, STATE AND FEDERAL AGENCIES HAVE SPENT MORE THAN $4 MILLION DOLLARS TRYING TO WIPE OUT THE PROBLEM AND THE METER IS STILL RUNNING.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, MEMORIES OF SEPTEMBER 11 AS SEEN THROUGH THE EYES OF THE VERY YOUNG. WE'LL FIND OUT HOW LOCAL CHILDREN ARE BEING PREPARED FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF IMAGES FROM ONE YEAR AGO AND WE'LL SEE HOW SOME YOUNGSTERS ARE LIVING WITH A DIFFERENT KIND OF TERROR CLOSER TO HOME. THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES AT 7:00 P.M.

JESS>> THE LEGAL PROFESSION IS FOND OF AN OLD SAYING, "A PERSON WHO REPRESENTS HIMSELF HAS A FOOL FOR A CLIENT". SOMETIMES A LAWYER IS NO PRIZE EITHER, BUT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, A SKILLED LEGAL TEAM CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THE COURTROOM. JUST ASK O.J. SIMPSON. TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE PERILS INVOLVED WHEN THE LAWYERS ARE TOLD TO GET LOST AND A PERSON DECIDES TO REPRESENT HIM OR HERSELF.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS OUR REGULAR LEGAL EXPERT, LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS. ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

JESS>> DO YOU BUY INTO THE OLD SAW THAT A PERSON WHO REPRESENTS HIMSELF HAS A FOOL FOR A CLIENT?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, LISTEN, I TELL MY INDIVIDUALS WHO COME BEFORE ME ALL THE TIME THAT I'M A LAWYER, I'M A JUDGE AND, IF I WERE CHARGED WITH A CRIMINAL OFFENSE, I WOULDN'T REPRESENT MYSELF. SO WHAT WOULD MAKE YOU THINK, GIVEN YOU HAVE NOT GONE TO LAW SCHOOL, YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN THE BAR, YOU DON'T KNOW THE RULES OF EVIDENCE, THAT YOU CAN COMPETE WITH A PROSECUTOR OR, YOU KNOW, A PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY WHO COULD CLEARLY JUST RUN CIRCLES AROUND YOU?

JESS>> WOULD YOU MAKE A DISTINCTION IF IT'S A JURY TRIAL OR JUST A TRIAL BEFORE A JUDGE?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> YOU KNOW, OFTENTIMES IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW HIGH THE STAKES ARE BECAUSE, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT CRIMINAL CASES, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT A SITUATION WHERE IT'S AN INFRACTION OR THERE'S NO JAIL TIME INVOLVED, THEN I WOULD TEND TO LET INDIVIDUALS SAY, WELL, MAYBE IT'S IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO NOT SPEND THE ADDITIONAL MONEY. BUT ANYTIME YOU'RE LOOKING AT GOING TO JAIL OR YOU'RE LOOKING AT HAVING SOME SORT OF A SEVERE PENALTY OR YOU'RE LOOKING AT HAVING YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE SUSPENDED OR HAVING TO DO SOME THINGS THAT, IN THE LONG HAUL, COULD HURT YOU, WHETHER IT'S FOR JOB PURPOSES OR FOR A LOAN OR ANYTHING ELSE, YOU ALWAYS WANT TO CONSULT WITH SOME SORT OF LEGAL --

VAL>> -- SO IF THE STAKES ARE HIGH, HIRE A LAWYER. NEVERTHELESS, YOU DID MENTION THAT THERE ARE SOME CASES WHERE YOU COULD CONSIDER, AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE. YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER REPRESENTING YOURSELF UNDER THESE CONDITIONS. IF IT IS A TRAFFIC VIOLATION --

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> -- RIGHT.

VAL>> IF YOU ARE GOING IN FRONT OF SMALL CLAIMS COURT. IF YOU HAVE A CASE IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT, OR --

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> -- AND ACTUALLY, VAL, IN SMALL CLAIMS SITUATIONS, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN ATTORNEY.

VAL>> OH, REALLY?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> YOU HAVE TO REPRESENT YOURSELF IN SMALL CLAIMS.

VAL>> OH, YOU HAVE TO. AND THEN THE OTHER TIME IS IF YOU'VE BEEN ACCUSED OF SOME MINOR LEGAL INFRACTION, LIKE WHAT?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU A PERFECT EXAMPLE. LET'S JUST SAY SOMEONE'S CHARGED WITH A PETTY THEFT, BUT THEY WERE STEALING NECESSITIES LIKE FOOD OR DIAPERS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WELL, THE PROSECUTOR IN THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE MAY HAVE INITIALLY FILED A MISDEMEANOR WHICH MEANS THAT THEY WOULD BE LOOKING AT UP TO SIX MONTHS IN JAIL AND/OR A THOUSAND DOLLAR FINE. OFTENTIMES, THOUGH, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE PROSECUTORS DO SHOW COMPASSION, THEY'LL SAY, WELL, IF IT'S FOR NECESSITIES, WE'LL REDUCE IT TO AN INFRACTION, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S UNDER FIFTY DOLLARS. SO IN THAT CASE, THE MOST THAT COULD HAPPEN TO THAT PERSON IS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT A $250 FINE. THERE'S NO PROBATION, THERE'S NO JAIL TIME.

NOW, SEE, SOMEONE WHO IS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE WORKINGS OF THE COURT, WOULD JUST SAY, WELL, I JUST DID IT, I'LL PLEAD AND NO BIG DEAL. THE PROSECUTOR, OF COURSE, IS NOT GOING TO SAY, WELL, I WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO REDUCE IT. A GOOD PUBLIC DEFENDER OR A GOOD DEFENSE ATTORNEY, SOMEONE WHO'S SKILLED AT KNOWING HOW THESE THINGS WORK THEMSELVES OUT, WOULD SAY, COME ON, WHY DON'T YOU GIVE THIS PERSON AN INFRACTION?

JESS>> LET'S SEE WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THIS OR NOT. HERE ARE SOME OF THE TIMES WHEN IT MAY BE BETTER TO HIRE A LAWYER. WHEN YOU'RE INVOLVED IN A DIVORCE --

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> -- ABSOLUTELY (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH A FELONY OR A MISDEMEANOR, AS YOU HAD JUST INDICATED, AND WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO SETTLE A WILL OR TRUST.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, ESPECIALLY THE FIRST ONE. I KNOW ALL OF US PROBABLY HAVE OUR OWN TESTIMONIES ABOUT FAMILY MEMBERS AND INDIVIDUALS WE KNEW THAT WERE TRYING TO DO A DO-IT-YOURSELF DIVORCE. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT INVOLVES CHILDREN OR PROPERTY, IT'S VERY COMPLEX. AND DON'T LET ONE SIDE GET AN ATTORNEY AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ONE.

VAL>> THAT'S REALLY BAD.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> BECAUSE THEY HAVE EXPERTISE. DIVORCE ATTORNEYS, THAT'S ALL THEY DO. THEY STUDY THE LAW, THEY KNOW THE CODE SECTIONS, THEY KNOW HOW THIS PARTICULAR JUDGE DIVVIES UP PROPERTIES OR HOW THEIR MINDSET IS, SO YOU WANT TO GO IN WITH AS MUCH OF AN ADVANTAGE AS POSSIBLE.

VAL>> YOU KNOW WHAT? I THINK WHAT IS OFTEN THE MOTIVATION BEHIND PEOPLE WANTING TO REPRESENT THEMSELVES IS THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A SORT OF INTUITIVE SENSE OF WHAT'S RIGHT AND WRONG AND THEY'LL JUST BE ABLE TO CONVINCE THE JUDGE THAT THEY'RE RIGHT AND THEY'LL BE ABLE TO STAND UP FOR JUSTICE AND THEY DON'T REALIZE HOW TRICKY THE LAW CAN BE.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WHAT I HAVE FOUND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE MAIN REASON WHY PEOPLE WANT TO REPRESENT THEMSELVES IS TO SAVE MONEY.

VAL>> OH, REALLY?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, WHY SHOULD I GO GET AN ATTORNEY? I THINK I CAN JUST DO THIS MYSELF. BECAUSE OFTENTIMES TO RETAIN AN ATTORNEY INITIALLY IS PRETTY EXPENSIVE. PEOPLE WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, I THINK I CAN DO IT ON MY OWN AND THEN THEY REALIZE, ONCE THEY GET IN IT, OH, MY GOD, I'M IN OVER MY HEAD, WHAT DO I DO?

JESS>> NOW YOU HAVE THE POWER TO DETERMINE WHETHER THOSE WHO ARE APPEARING BEFORE YOU REPRESENT THEMSELVES OR NOT?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT. IN CRIMINAL CASES, IT'S A CASE CALLED UNITED STATES VERSUS FARETTA. IT BASICALLY ESTABLISHES THE RULE THAT, UNDER THE SIXTH AND THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT, IN A CRIMINAL MATTER, IF YOU SAY I WANT TO REPRESENT MYSELF, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO.

VAL>> AND THAT WAS THE CASE IN THE HIJACKER.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT. CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW WITH THE ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI CASE, EVEN THOUGH HE'S LOOKING AT FACING THE DEATH PENALTY, IT'S STILL A SITUATION WHERE THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION SAYS IF YOU WANT TO REPRESENT YOURSELF, IF YOU WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD ALL ALONE, IT'S UP TO YOU.

NOW WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THE MOUSSAOUI CASE, ESPECIALLY WITH US COMING UP ON SEPTEMBER 11, THAT CASE WAS POSTPONED UNTIL JANUARY PARTLY BECAUSE THE JUDGE IN THAT CASE SAID, WELL, I KNOW YOU WANT TO REPRESENT YOURSELF, BUT I'M GOING TO PUT FIVE ATTORNEYS ON STANDBY JUST TO KIND OF HELP YOU OUT WHEN IT STARTS TO DO CROSS-EXAMINATION. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT A JUDGE CAN DO BECAUSE WE ARE CHARGED WITH MAKING SURE THAT THE DEFENDANT RECEIVES A FAIR TRIAL.

IN THE CASE INVOLVING THE MOUSSAOUI MATTER, YOU HAVE A THOUSAND CD ROMS, YOU HAVE FIVE HUNDRED VIDEOTAPES, OVER A THOUSAND CASSETTES. YOU HAVE MOUNDS OF PAPER AND MATERIAL AND, FOR ONE PERSON TO BE EXPECTED TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT AND THEN KNOW HOW TO DO VOIR DIRE, OR PICKING A JURY, AND KNOWING WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK AND WHAT MOTIONS TO FILE, IT'S COMPLETELY EXTREME TO BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE WITHOUT ANY TYPE OF LEGAL BACKGROUND COULD CARRY THAT OUT.

JESS>> WHEN YOU DECIDE TO APPOINT SOMEBODY TO REPRESENT A DEFENDANT AND YOU HAVE THAT POWER TO DO SO, DOES THE DEFENDANT HAVE ANY CHOICE?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> NOT NECESSARILY, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE, ONCE AN ATTORNEY IS APPOINTED, ESPECIALLY THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS, BECAUSE AS MUCH AS PEOPLE LIKE TO GIVE PUBLIC DEFENDERS A BAD RAP SAYING I DON'T WANT THAT FREE LAWYER, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT OR THEY'RE HANDLING TOO MANY CASES --

JESS>> -- THEY'RE BEGINNERS.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> THEY'RE BEGINNERS, I WANT A REAL ATTORNEY, I DON'T WANT ONE OF THEM. OFTENTIMES, IT'S IN THEIR BEST INTEREST TO GET THOSE ATTORNEYS EVEN IF YOU LATER DECIDE, YOU KNOW WHAT, I THINK I WANT TO GO IT ALONE. BUT THAT PERSON CAN AT LEAST SAY, OKAY, HERE ARE YOUR POSSIBLE DEFENSES, HERE ARE THE PUNISHMENTS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT, HERE ARE THE RIGHTS YOU WILL BE GIVING UP. SOMEONE WHO'S EVEN DEALING WITH CITIZENSHIP STATUS MAY NOT EVEN REALIZE, BY ENTERING INTO A PLEA AND IF THEY'RE HERE ON A VISA OR A TEMPORARY CARD, THAT COULD IMMEDIATELY SEND THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY. THEY'RE THINKING, WELL, COME ON, IT'S JUST A DUI, NOT REALIZING WHAT THE RAMIFICATIONS COULD BE.

VAL>> HAVE YOU EVER HAD A PERSON SAY I REALLY WANT TO REPRESENT MYSELF AND THEY DID A GREAT JOB AND THEY WON?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> YES. IT'S AMAZING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HANDLE THESE SEXUALLY VIOLENT PREDATOR CASES --

VAL>> -- IS THAT THE EXCEPTION THOUGH?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> IT IS THE EXCEPTION. YOU KNOW WHERE PEOPLE TEND TO REALLY DO WELL REPRESENTING THEMSELVES? IN TRAFFIC TICKETS. I'VE SEEN PEOPLE SAY HERE WAS THE STOP SIGN, JUDGE ROSS, AND HERE'S WHERE THE CAR WAS WITH THE POLICE AND THIS IS WHERE I WAS. YOU KNOW, THEY'LL HAVE PICTURES, THEY'LL HAVE DIAGRAMS. OFTENTIMES, WHEN THEY'RE GOING UP AGAINST THAT POLICE OFFICER, YOU JUST ASSUME THE POLICE OFFICER IS COMING IN WITH A CERTAIN LEVEL OF CREDIBILITY. BUT THEN I'VE ACTUALLY HAD SITUATIONS WHERE ONE PERSON SAID THE PERSON COULD NOT HAVE SEEN ME BECAUSE THERE IS NO STOP SIGN THERE. HERE'S THE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE AREA AND THERE WAS NO STOP SIGN. THE OFFICER WAS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.

VAL>> AHA, VICTORY FOR THE LITTLE GUY (LAUGHTER). JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE'LL TAKE YOUR GENERAL ADVICE, THOUGH, AND HIRE A LAWYER FOR MOST CASES.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> ALWAYS BE SAFE.

VAL>> THANKS SO MUCH.

JESS>> TIME NOW FOR A LOOK AT SOME OF OUR VIEWER MAIL AND TWO TOPICS INSPIRED MOST OF IT OVER THE PAST WEEK. FIRST, THERE WAS OUR INTERVIEW WITH STATE TREASURER, PHIL ANGELIDES. HE'S ON A CRUSADE AGAINST CORPORATE FRAUD AND HAS IDENTIFIED NEARLY TWO DOZEN COMPANIES THAT CALIFORNIA WILL NO LONGER DEAL WITH. ONE VIEWER FROM VENICE WRITES:

"IF THE GENERAL PUBLIC HAD THE LIST OF TWENTY-THREE COMPANIES HE SPOKE OF, WE COULD HELP HIM WITH OUR POCKETBOOKS BY NOT PURCHASING THEIR PRODUCTS. IS THAT LIST AVAILABLE?"

JESS>> YOU CAN GET THAT INFORMATION BY LOGGING ONTO ANGELIDES' OFFICIAL WEBSITE. THE ADDRESS IS TREASURER.CA.GOV. YOU'LL NEED TO CLICK ON THE BUTTON LABELED "NEWS RELEASE" AND LOOK FOR THE ARTICLE FROM JULY 25.

VAL>> AND THE OTHER HOT TOPIC WAS, OF COURSE, THE NEW LOS ANGELES CATHEDRAL AND PATT MORRISON'S COMMENTARY SUGGESTING THAT THE CATHEDRAL WAS A BIG WASTE OF MONEY. WELL, THAT STRUCK A NERVE WITH ONE VIEWER WHO SAYS:

"YOU'RE SCATHING ORATORY OF THE NEW L.A. CATHEDRAL TURNS AN EDIFICE OF GOODNESS INTO A GLUT ON THE L.A. LANDSCAPE."

VAL>> BUT THERE'S ANOTHER VIEWER FROM WHITTIER WHO SAYS:

"THANK YOU FOR HAVING THE COURAGE TO RAISE AN OPPOSING VIEW DURING LIFE AND TIMES PUBLIC RELATIONS PROMOTIONS FOR THE NEW CATHEDRAL."

VAL>> WELL, HERE'S HOW YOU CAN TELL US WHAT YOU THINK:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

VAL>> IN THE EARLY DAYS OF AUTOMOBILES, THERE WERE NO MAPS, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, FOR MOTORISTS. DRIVING WAS STILL A BRAND NEW ADVENTURE AND GETTING FROM POINT A TO POINT B TOOK A LOT OF LUCK. BUT THEN IN 1908, THE AUTO CLUB STARTED DRAWING MAPS OF CALIFORNIA -- WHAT A CONCEPT -- AND TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE OLD MAPS.

JESS>> THESE FIRST MAPS WERE DRAWN BY HAND. THEY SHOWED DISTANCE, ELEVATION AND THE LOCATION OF GAS, WATER AND REPAIR SERVICES. THE MAPS WERE ALSO COORDINATED WITH DIRECTIONAL ROAD SIGNS.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW WITH HIS REGULAR SHOW-AND-TELL IS MATT ROTH. MATT IS THE HISTORIAN FOR THE AUTOMOBILE CLUB OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU HERE. THANK YOU.

MATT ROTH>> NICE TO BE BACK.

JESS>> IT'S ONE OF THE AUTO CLUB'S CLAIMS THAT THEY PRODUCED THE FIRST ROAD SIGNS, DIDN'T THEY?

MATT ROTH>> FIRST ROAD SIGNS FOR CALIFORNIA, YES, AND THE FIRST MAPS.

VAL>> SO YOU BROUGHT A LOT OF THEM WITH YOU AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE FIRST ONE. WHAT'S THE FIRST ONE?

MATT ROTH>> WELL, THE FIRST ONE IS ONE OF THE FAVORITE TRIPS WHICH WAS LOS ANGELES TO TOPANGA CANYON AND RETURN. EVEN THOUGH IT SHOWS A LITTLE ROAD ALONG THE COAST THERE, YOU COULDN'T GO. THERE WERE GUARDS, OFF-DUTY COUNTY SHERIFFS, WHO TURNED PEOPLE BACK BECAUSE IT WAS THE RINGE PROPERTY AND THEY DIDN'T WANT ANYBODY GOING THERE.

VAL>> YOU MEAN YOU COULDN'T GET INTO TOPANGA CANYON?

MATT ROTH>> YOU COULDN'T GO PAST NORTH OF TOPANGA CANYON.

VAL>> REALLY?

JESS>> THERE ARE DAYS TODAY WHEN THAT'S THE CASE (LAUGHTER).

MATT ROTH>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S TRUE, OR WOULDN'T WANT TO, I SUPPOSE. I MEAN, BEFORE THIS, THERE WERE MILITARY MAPS, BUT WHO ELSE MADE MAPS, YOU KNOW? IN THESE EARLY ONES, YOU CAN SEE, I MEAN, TO TODAY'S EYE, THEY DO APPEAR A LITTLE CRUDE. THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY FREE-HAND DRAWN.

VAL>> THAT ONE TOLD PEOPLE HOW TO GET TO POMONA WHICH WAS, I GUESS, THE BOONIES BACK THEN, RIGHT?

MATT ROTH>> WELL, YES, THIS WAS AN ADVENTURE. THERE WASN'T A LOT OF SERVICES IN BETWEEN. THEY WEREN'T SHOWING CONTOUR LINES TO SHOW THE CHANGES IN ELEVATION, BUT THEY DID MARK ELEVATION AND THEY MARKED GRADE TOO BECAUSE, ON AN UNPAVED ROAD, A 1910 AUTOMOBILE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY MAKE IT UP.

JESS>> HERE'S HOW TO GET TO THE HARBOR.

MATT ROTH>> WELL, YEAH. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S NOTHING IN BETWEEN.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) SO WERE THEY JUST DRIVING THROUGH OPEN --

MATT ROTH>> -- PRAIRIES.

VAL>> PRAIRIES?

MATT ROTH>> AND FARMERS' FIELDS. IN ORDER TO GET IRRIGATION OUT TO THE FIELDS, THE FARMERS WOULD HAVE CUT ROADS OR, IF NOT CUT THEM, JUST, YOU KNOW, FROM PASSING AND RE-PASSING, WOULD HAVE ESTABLISHED ROADS, BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW WHICH IS A ROAD OR WHICH IS --

VAL>> -- TURN LEFT AT THE IRRIGATION PUMP, TURN RIGHT AT THE --

MATT ROTH>> -- WELL, THE EARLY TOUR BOOKS ACTUALLY HAD THAT. I MEAN, THE DIRECTIONS -- I THINK IT WAS IN 1911, THE AUTO CLUB DIRECTIONS FROM SAN DIEGO TO LOS ANGELES ACTUALLY INCLUDED A TURN LEFT AT THE RED BARN (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) BUT THEY DID LIST WHERE YOU COULD GET REPAIRS MADE?

MATT ROTH>> YES, AND THEY WERE CHECKED AHEAD OF TIME FOR PRICING AND FOR THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND SO FORTH. IN FACT --

JESS>> -- SO EVEN THEN, THEY HAD THE SIGNS THAT SAID "TRIPLE A APPROVED", HUH?

MATT ROTH>> WELL, ACTUALLY, ON THESE STRIP MAPS LIKE THIS -- OH, I'M SORRY, WE'RE BACK ON THE -- ON THESE MAPS, YOU CAN SEE ON SOME OF THE CLOSE SHOTS THAT THEY HAVE GAS, OIL AND WATER LOCATED, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE GET TO THE ONE FOR TOURING THROUGH THE DESERT, FOR OBVIOUS REASONS. WELL, IN THIS ONE, MERCED --

VAL>> -- THIS ONE WAS TO YOSEMITE.

MATT ROTH>> YEAH. THIS WAS ACTUALLY A MAP THAT WAS USED IN A REPORT THAT THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE PREPARED WHEN THEY WERE FIRST TRYING TO ESTABLISH AUTOMOBILE ACCESS TO YOSEMITE. THERE WERE STATE OFFICIALS AND FEDERAL OFFICIALS AND THE TWO AUTO CLUBS THAT ALL CONFERRED. THE AUTO CLUB OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA MADE THIS MAP THAT SHOWED ALL THE VARIOUS OPTIONS OF ALL THE DIFFERENT ROADS THAT DIFFERENT PEOPLE WANTED. YOU KNOW, THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND SO FORTH -- WELL, THIS IS ANOTHER NATIONAL PARK MAP -- BUT THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND ROAD OFFICIALS OFTEN HAD LOCAL INTERESTS WHO WERE INFLUENCING THEM WHO WANTED ROADS TO GO NEAR THEIR PROPERTY OR NOT NEAR THEIR PROPERTY AND SO FORTH.

JESS>> BUT EVEN NATIONAL PARKS AT THAT TIME WERE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME?

MATT ROTH>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

JESS>> AND NOW? (LAUGHTER)

MATT ROTH>> WELL, --

JESS>> -- NOT SO MANY.

MATT ROTH>> I THINK THEY'RE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF TOO MANY PEOPLE WANTING TO COME.

JESS>> THAT'S TRUE.

VAL>> NOW THERE ARE ALSO SOME SCENIC LANDSCAPES OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA?

JESS>> DEATH VALLEY BEING ONE OF THEM.

VAL>> OH, DEATH VALLEY.

MATT ROTH>> ABSOLUTELY. YOU KNOW, IT WAS A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH TO --

VAL>> -- AND THIS WAS 1925, BEFORE AIR CONDITIONING. I TAKE IT THEY WOULD NOT GO THERE DURING THE SUMMERTIME.

MATT ROTH>> WE HAVE A SURVEY --

JESS>> -- IT'S BARELY WITH BALLOON TIRES, IN 1925.

MATT ROTH>> WE HAVE ONE OF THE SURVEYOR'S NOTEBOOKS FROM ACTUALLY WELL BEFORE THIS, BEFORE 1910, WHERE THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, TAKING NOTES TO BRING BACK TO THE MAPPING PEOPLE. ON THE WAY TO DEATH VALLEY, ONE OF THE SURVEYOR'S WROTE, "A HOWLING WILDERNESS THE LIKE OF WHICH HAS NOT BEEN SEEN SINCE THE BOOK OF JEREMIAH."

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S GREAT.

JESS>> ANOTHER BIBLICAL QUOTATION IS "IT TAKES THE PATIENCE OF JOB TO DRIVE HERE." (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> NOW THEY EVEN DID MAPS FOR PARKING PLANS. OF COURSE, THIS IS A VERY SPECIAL CEREMONY. TELL US ABOUT THAT.

MATT ROTH>> YEAH, THESE ARE SOME OF THE SPECIAL ONES. THERE WEREN'T A LOT OF PLACES TO GET MAPS. THIS IS THE OPENING CEREMONY FOR THE OWENS VALLEY AQUEDUCT, THE REAL NAME OF WHICH IS THE LOS ANGELES AQUEDUCT.

THIS IS A MAP THAT TRACKS THE COURSE OF THE 1923 SOLAR ECLIPSE.

VAL>> REALLY? TO TELL PEOPLE WHERE THEY COULD SEE IT BEST?

MATT ROTH>> YEAH. YOU SEE UP IN THE CORNER IS THE COASTLINE. IT STAYED OFF THE COAST, BUT WHEN IT GOT DOWN TOWARDS SAN DIEGO, IT WAS ACTUALLY ON THE LAND. IN THE SAN DIEGO HISTORICAL SOCIETY, THERE ARE ALBUMS AND ALBUMS AND ALBUMS THAT FAMILIES TOOK OF PHOTOGRAPHS BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A BIG OUTING. IT WAS A VERY BIG DEAL IN 1923 TO GO SEE THE ECLIPSE.

VAL>> WOW, 1923. NOW FINALLY, THERE'S A MAP FROM 1942 THAT IS VERY INTERESTING FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVED THROUGH THE WAR YEARS.

MATT ROTH>> YEAH. IT'S THE AREA WHERE YOU HAVE TO DIM YOUR LIGHTS DURING THE WAR.

VAL>> SO WITHIN THOSE DARK LINES, ANY PEOPLE WHO LIVED BETWEEN THE COAST AND WITHIN THOSE DARK LINES HAD TO DIM THEIR LIGHTS AT NIGHT SO THEY WOULD NOT BE A TARGET FOR THE ENEMY, YES?

MATT ROTH>> RIGHT. ENEMY SHIPS OFF THE COAST. THE LIGHTS WOULD ALLOW THEM TO PERCEIVE THE SHAPE OF THE COASTLINE.

JESS>> SO PEOPLE DROVE WITH THEIR LIGHTS OFF?

MATT ROTH>> OR DIMMED.

JESS>> OR DIMMED.

MATT ROTH>> YES.

VAL>> MATT ROTH, ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE. YOU BRING US GREAT STUFF.

JESS>> YES, IT IS, AND SO DOES THOMAS BROTHERS (LAUGHTER).

MATT ROTH>> (LAUGHTER) OUR FRIENDS.

VAL>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. REMEMBER THAT YOU CAN CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE FOR TRANSCRIPTS OR AUDIO OF OUR RECENT BROADCASTS. JUST GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> AND NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.