9/12/02

LC020912

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> MILLIONS OF MEXICAN WORKERS CAME TO THE U.S. IN THE FORTIES TO RELIEVE THE LABOR SHORTAGE, BUT WERE THEY SHORTCHANGED?

PABLO AYALA GARCIA>> WE WENT BACK, TEN PEOPLE FROM MY HOMETOWN, AND THEY TOLD US WE WERE CRAZY, THAT WE DIDN’T HAVE ANY SAVINGS. WE CAME BACK SADDENED.

VAL>> THE LIST OF PROSPECTIVE POLICE CHIEFS FOR LOS ANGELES IS GETTING SHORTER. BY THE END OF THIS MONTH, IT WILL BE NARROWED DOWN TO THREE FINALISTS. WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO MAKE THE CUT? WE’LL ASK CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CONNIE RICE, WHO HELPED SET THE CRITERIA FOR SELECTING L.A.’S NEXT TOP COP.

JESS>> ALSO, PATT MORRISON ON PUSHING BUZZ’S BUTTONS.

PATT MORRISON>> THERE’S A REASON THE WORDS FOR MOON AND LUNATIC HAVE THE SAME ROOT: LUNA. THE ASTRONAUT VERSUS THE ASININE -- ON TONIGHT’S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> MANY OF US COLLECT SOMETHING LIKE STAMPS, BASEBALL CARDS, COINS, BUT ONE MAN’S COLLECTION REQUIRES MORE THAN A CORNER OF THE GARAGE. IN FACT, IT TAKES UP AN ENTIRE GARAGE AND THEN SOME. TONIGHT WE’LL MEET THE MAN WHO JUST CAN’T GET ENOUGH CLASSIC BUSES.

JESS>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. TONIGHT A LOOK AT THE CLAIMS OF MEXICAN WORKERS WHO SAY THEY ARE OWED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN BACK PAY. IT’S A CONTROVERSY THAT DATES BACK TO 1942 WHEN MILLIONS OF AMERICAN MEN WERE FIGHTING A WAR ABROAD.

VAL>> THAT’S WHEN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT ESTABLISHED THE BRACERO PROGRAM. IT BROUGHT THOUSANDS OF MEXICAN WORKERS TO AMERICA TO WORK THE FIELDS AND BUILD RAILROADS. BUT NOW SCORES OF WORKERS CLAIM THEY NEVER GOT ALL THEIR MONEY AND, AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS COULD BE AT STAKE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IT ALL BEGAN WITH THE ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR AND, FROM THAT POINT ON, THE NATION WAS AT WAR AND POURED EVERYTHING IT HAD INTO WINNING. BUT WITH SO MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THAT EFFORT, THERE WAS A CRUCIAL SHORTAGE OF WORKERS TO HANDLE ALL THE OTHER JOBS LIKE PICKING CROPS AND MAINTAINING THE RAILROADS. THAT’S WHEN THE U.S. FOUND A SOLUTION SOUTH OF THE BORDER, THOUSANDS OF GUEST WORKERS WHO WOULD COME HERE FROM MEXICO AT AMERICA’S INVITATION.

CRISTOBAL MORENO>> I WORKED IN THE STATE OF MONTANA PICKING UP BEETS.

JOAQUIN DE LUNA>> I’D WORK TWO MONTHS, SOMETIMES MORE, BECAUSE THEY WOULD TRANSFER ME FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER TO ANOTHER PLACE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THEY WERE CALLED BRACEROS AND, IN FACT, THEY WERE THE STRONG NEW ARMS AMERICA NEEDED TO KEEP THE COUNTRY RUNNING.

GILDARDO MALDONADO>> THE CONTRACT SPECIFIED $2.10 FOR A HUNDRED POUNDS OF COTTON. HOWEVER, IT LOOKS LIKE WE WERE BEING PAID $1.50 FOR A HUNDRED POUNDS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> GILDARDO MALDONADO CAME TO THE UNITED STATES IN 1944 AND RETURNED EACH SEASON THROUGH 1949.

GILDARDO MALDONADO>> THERE WAS A PLACE THEY WOULD GATHER US UP. THEY WOULD FUMIGATE US AND THEN BOSSES WOULD COME TO CHOOSE THE ONES THEY WANTED.

PHILIP BRUCE>> CRISTOBAL MORENO WORKED FROM 1948 THROUGH 1953.

CRISTOBAL MORENO>> IT WAS HARD WORK, BUT ANYWAY, AT LEAST WE CAN GET A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY, YES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHAT BEGAN AS PART OF THE WAR EFFORT CONTINUED LONG AFTER THE FIGHTING WAS DONE AND BETWEEN 1942 AND 1964, AMERICA RECRUITED AS MANY AS FIVE MILLION MEXICAN MEN TO WORK IN THE U.S. AS PART OF THE AGREEMENT, THE UNITED STATES AND MEXICO INSTITUTED A FORCED SAVINGS PLAN. THE MEXICAN WORKERS WOULD GET THE MONEY AFTER THEY RETURNED HOME.

GILDARDO MALDONADO>> THOMAS, HE AND I WERE ALWAYS TOGETHER DURING THE SEASON AS BRACEROS AND I REMEMBER THE FIRST PAYMENT THEY GAVE US. HE ASKED ME, HEY, ANY MONEY MISSING FROM YOUR CHECK?

PHILIP BRUCE>> DURING THE FORTIES, NEARLY 400,000 BRACEROS HAD TEN PERCENT OF THEIR PAY WITHHELD. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DEPOSITED INTO A SAVINGS ACCOUNT AND THE WORKERS WERE TOLD THEY COULD RETRIEVE THE CASH AFTER THE JOB WAS DONE AND THEY WERE BACK IN MEXICO. PABLO AYALA GARCIA TRIED TO RECLAIM HIS MONEY.

PABLO AYALA GARCIA>> WE WENT BACK, TEN PEOPLE FROM MY HOMETOWN, AND THEY TOLD US WE WERE CRAZY, THAT WE DIDN’T HAVE ANY SAVINGS. WE CAME BACK SADDENED, WHAT ELSE?

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE BRACEROS SIGNED CONTRACTS WHEN THEY CAME TO THE UNITED STATES, BUT MANY LATER SAID THEY DIDN’T KNOW THE MONEY WAS BEING TAKEN FROM THEM AND NOW MANY CLAIM THEY NEVER GOT WHAT WAS SUPPOSEDLY BEING SAVED IN THEIR BEHALF.

GUADALUPE CORNEJO>> I DIDN’T KNOW MONEY WAS BEING TAKEN JUST GETTING PAID.

FLORENTINO MIRAMONTES>> WE WERE TOLD THAT WE WOULD HAVE GOOD ASSISTANCE AND GOOD BEDS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> LAST YEAR, ATTORNEYS FOR SCORES OF SURVIVING BRACEROS FILED A CLASS ACTION SUIT IN FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT AGAINST THE U.S. AND MEXICAN GOVERNMENTS, THREE MEXICAN BANKS AND WELLS FARGO.

MIRIAM GALICIA DUARTE>> WELLS FARGO RECEIVED LUMP SUM AMOUNTS OF MONEY FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND WELLS FARGO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR TRANSFERRING THOSE FUNDS TO THE BANK OF MEXICO.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WELLS FARGO SAYS IT DID EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.

MIRIAM GALICIA DUARTE>> THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND I BELIEVE THE MEXICAN SECRETARY OF LABOR CONDUCTED AT THAT TIME AUDITS THAT INDICATED THAT THE MONIES WERE ACTUALLY TRANSFERRED TO MEXICO, SO THOSE DOCUMENTS ARE PUBLIC RECORDS AND WE’VE SHARED THESE DOCUMENTS WITH THE BRACERO PRO ALLIANCE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> LAST MONTH, A JUDGE DISMISSED THE BRACERO’S CLAIMS, RULING THAT MEXICO AND ITS BANKS ARE COVERED BY SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY, MEANING THAT MEXICO AND NOT THE U.S. SETS THE RULES, AND HE ALSO RULED IN FAVOR OF WELLS FARGO BANK.

MIRIAM GALICIA DUARTE>> WELLS FARGO SYMPATHIZES WITH THE BRACEROS, WITH THE BRACEROS WHO CLAIM THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED THEIR MONIES, BUT WE’RE ALSO GRATIFIED THAT THE JUDGE HAS AGREED THAT WELLS FARGO FAITHFULLY AND COMPLETELY FULFILLED ITS RESPONSIBILITY TO TRANSFER THE MONIES RECEIVED BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND THAT THOSE MONIES WERE ACTUALLY IN FACT DELIVERED OR TRANSFERRED TO THE BANK OF MEXICO.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE JUDGE DID AGREE THAT MANY OF THE BRACEROS NEVER RECEIVED THEIR SAVINGS, BUT HE DISMISSED THE CLAIM AGAINST THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, SAYING THAT THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS HAD RUN OUT.

JOAQUIN DE LUNA>> AS FOR ME, EVEN IF THEY KILL ME, I TELL YOU, THEY OWE US THAT MONEY. I DON’T KNOW IF IT’S THIS GOVERNMENT OR THAT ONE. HOWEVER, I WORKED IN THIS COUNTRY. I DIDN’T WORK IN MEXICO AND, SINCE I WORKED HERE, I WANT THEM TO PAY ME HERE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THOUGH THE LIVING AND WORKING CONDITIONS WERE UNACCEPTABLE BY TODAY’S STANDARDS, MANY BRACEROS APPRECIATED THE WORK. NOW THEY’D JUST LIKE TO GET PAID.

GILDARDO MALDONADO>> FOR ME, IT DOESN’T MATTER, BUT FOR MY COMPANIONS, I HOPE THEY GET THEIR MONEY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MANY FORMER GUEST WORKERS BLAME BOTH GOVERNMENTS FOR THE MONEY DISAPPEARING, BUT THEY BELIEVE THEIR BEST HOPES MAY LIE IN APPEALING TO AMERICA’S SENSE OF HONESTY AND FAIR PLAY.

PABLO AYALA GARCIA>> I THINK IT’S RESPONSIBLE FOR BOTH GOVERNMENTS, MEXICAN AND AMERICAN, YES. THAT’S MY PERCEPTION.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE JUDGE DID LEAVE ROOM FOR THE SUIT TO BE REOPENED PROVIDED THAT SOMEONE PROVES THE BRACEROS DID NOT KNOW THE MONEY WAS BEING TAKEN FROM THEM. IN THAT CASE, THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS WOULDN’T APPLY.

JOAQUIN DE LUNA>> OF COURSE, THEY HAVE TO PAY ME. THIS IS A VERY HONEST GOVERNMENT. IT’S AMERICA.

JESS>> THIS PAST JUNE, ILLINOIS CONGRESSMAN, LUIS GUTIERREZ, INTRODUCED A BILL CALLED THE BRACERO JUSTICE ACT. IT WOULD WAIVE THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY OF THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT AND THIS WOULD ALLOW THOUSANDS OF EX-BRACEROS TO GET THE MONEY THEY CLAIM IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, TOO MANY TREES. THAT’S THE PROBLEM NEAR LAKE ARROWHEAD WHERE DENSE GROWTH IS CREATING A SEVERE FIRE HAZARD, BUT IS LOGGING ON NATIONAL FORESTS THE ANSWER?

>> IF THERE WERE A FIRE TO OCCUR IN HERE RIGHT NOW, THE FIRE WOULD BE ON THE GROUND, IT WOULD GET UP INTO THE NEEDLES AND BRANCHES AND ESSENTIALLY GO RIGHT UP INTO THE TOPS OF THE CROWNS OF THE TREES. INSTEAD OF HAVING ONE TO TWO-FOOT FLAME LENGTHS THAT WE ORIGINALLY MIGHT HAVE HAD A HUNDRED YEARS AGO, WE NOW HAVE FLAME LENGTHS THAT ARE A HUNDRED TO TWO HUNDRED FEET TALL.

JESS>> THIRTEEN CANDIDATES ARE VYING TO BE THE NEXT POLICE CHIEF OF LOS ANGELES, BUT THE POLICE COMMISSION IS NARROWING THE LIST AND, BY THE END OF THIS MONTH, ONLY THREE WILL REMAIN. WHO WILL LEAD THE TROUBLED LAPD? AND EXACTLY WHAT QUALITIES IS THE CITY LOOKING FOR?

VAL>> JOINING US NOW IS CONNIE RICE. SHE’S A CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY WHO HELPED CRAFT THE CRITERIA BY WHICH THE NEW CHIEF WILL BE SELECTED AND MS. RICE IS ALSO CO-DIRECTOR OF THE ADVANCEMENT PROJECT. ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU.

CONSTANCE RICE>> HI. GOOD TO BE HERE.

JESS>> HAVE YOU EVIDENCE THAT THE POLICE COMMISSION AND OTHERS WHO ARE VETTING ALL THESE CANDIDATES ARE FOLLOWING YOUR REQUIREMENTS?

CONSTANCE RICE>> THEY’RE FREE TO IGNORE EVERY SINGLE WORD WE SUBMITTED TO THEM (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> THEY PROBABLY ARE (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, THEY CAN’T IGNORE ALL OF THEM BECAUSE SOME OF THEM ARE SO OBVIOUS, CERTAIN CRITERIA YOU JUST CANNOT IGNORE. WHAT ARE THE MOST BASIC CRITERIA?

CONSTANCE RICE>> THE GIVENS? OBVIOUSLY, AN EXPERT AND PROVEN RECORD IN CRIME FIGHTING, CRIME PREVENTION AND COMMUNITY POLICING. FOREMOST, THE POLICE CHIEF IS A LEADER OF SAFETY AND PROTECTION AND ANGELENOS, LIKE ANY OTHER POPULATION, THEY WANT TO BE PROTECTED. THEY WANT CRIME TO GO DOWN, THEY DON’T WANT TO HAVE CRIME IN THEIR BACKYARDS OR IN THEIR COMMUNITIES, SO THAT’S THE NUMBER ONE CRITERIA. BUT BEYOND THAT, THIS DEPARTMENT, AS VAUNTED AS IT IS, IT IS ONE OF THE BEST DEPARTMENTS IN THE COUNTRY.

BUT IT IS ALSO ONE OF THE MOST TROUBLED. WE’RE AT A POINT IN LAPD’S HISTORY WHERE WE’VE GOT TO HAVE SOME SPECIAL QUALITIES. RIGHT NOW, I WOULD SAY WE’VE BEEN THROUGH ABOUT TWO YEARS OF BLUE FLU. WE’RE NOT GETTING THE COPS TO DO WHAT THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO DO BECAUSE THEIR NUMBERS ARE DOWN, THE MORALE IS DOWN, THEY’VE BEEN THROUGH A WAR. YOU HAD MANAGEMENT THAT DECLARED WAR ON THE RANK AND FILE FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS AND THE DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO BE PUT BACK TOGETHER. IT NEEDS TO BE UNIFIED.

JESS>> SO WE’VE GOT TO HAVE A REFORMER.

CONSTANCE RICE>> WE’VE GOT TO HAVE A REFORMER, BUT YOU KNOW, JUST AT THE TOP, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A CITIZEN WHO CALLED IN. WE TOOK A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM ANGELENOS OF EVERY WALK OF LIFE. ONE CITIZEN CALLED THE COMMISSION STAFF AND SAID, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE MENTAL HEALTH CHECK IS, BECAUSE ANYBODY WHO WANTS THIS JOB HAS GOT TO BE CRAZY (LAUGHTER). LOOKING FOR A SUPER HUMAN BEING THAT REALLY DOES NOT EXIST, BUT IT’S IMPORTANT TO GET THE CRITERIA OUT THERE. IT’S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT THE LEADERSHIP IS RESPECTED BY THE RANK AND FILE. ALSO, AND PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANT, IS THAT THEY GET ALONG WITH MAYOR HAHN. THAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH THE LAST CHIEF.

VAL>> AND HE WILL -- JUST SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, YOUR COMMITTEE HELPED SET UP THE CRITERIA, THE POLICE COMMISSION WILL SEND TO THE MAYOR THE THREE FINALISTS’ NAMES AND THE MAYOR WILL MAKE THE FINAL CHOICE FROM THAT LIST OF THREE, SO IT’S VERY MUCH A PERSONAL CHOICE.

CONSTANCE RICE>> IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE.

JESS>> IT WOULD SEEM UNLIKELY THAT AN OUTSIDER WOULD BE CHOSEN, GIVEN THAT CRITERIA.

CONSTANCE RICE>> WELL, WE DID NOT MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AS TO AN INSIDER OR AN OUTSIDER, BUT WITHOUT REFERRING TO WHAT WE DISCUSSED OR RECOMMENDED TO THE COMMISSION, IT IS AWFULLY HARD FOR SOMEONE TO COME OUT. IT’S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT ENOUGH FOR SOMEONE WHO’S FLUENT IN LAPD AND KNOWS WHERE ALL THE BODIES ARE BURIED, KNOWS ALL THE HISTORY AND KNOWS WHO’S PARTNER WAS WHOM AND WHO HATES WHO AND WHO’S SABOTAGING WHOM AND WHO’S GOING TO HELP GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW. IT’S HARD ENOUGH FOR SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ALL THAT STUFF AND HAS BEEN THROUGH THE RANK AND FILE AND UP TO THE TOP. IT’S HARD ENOUGH FOR THEM TO TAKE THE REINS OF THIS DEPARTMENT. IT’S REALLY THREE JOBS. IT’S A BILLION DOLLAR DEPARTMENT, SO YOU REALLY NEED A CFO. IT’S ALSO THE POLICE LEADER AND ALSO A MANAGER, A CO.

VAL>> A POLITICIAN TOO.

CONSTANCE RICE>> AND A POLITICIAN. SO IT’S REALLY FOUR JOBS, A MINIMUM FOUR BIG JOBS THAT WOULD BE FULL-TIME ANYHOW AND WE’VE ROLLED THEM ALL INTO ONE, SO THAT’S WHAT I MEANT BY SUPER HERO (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OUTSIDERS, WE REALLY -- A COUPLE OF THEM WHO ARE POLICE CHIEFS IN OTHER CITIES HAVE SPENT MOST OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL LIVES WITH THE LAPD, SO THEY'RE NOT REALLY OUTSIDERS. MARK KROEKER IS AN EXAMPLE, AND LOPEZ.

CONSTANCE RICE>> YES. IF YOU KNOW A LOT ABOUT LAPD AND YOU CAME UP AND YOU UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE, YOU'VE GOT TO UNDERSTAND LAPD'S INFORMAL CULTURE. WHAT THEY WRITE ABOUT THEMSELVES IS ONE THING, BUT WHAT REALLY GOES ON ON THE STREET AND IN THE POLICE HOUSES AND IN THE DIVISIONS IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT. YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW THAT STUFF. YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW WHO'S WHO AND WHAT THE HISTORY IS AND WHO YOU CAN GET TO LEAD AND YOU NEED LEADERSHIP THAT'S WILLING TO DO WHAT THE DEPARTMENT HAS NOT BEEN WILLING TO DO, WHICH IS TO CHANGE ITS CULTURE. LOOK, LAPD HAS A PARAMILITARY CULTURE. IT'S BEEN DOCUMENTED. THEY DON'T DISPUTE IT --

JESS>> -- IS THAT ALL WRONG?

CONSTANCE RICE>> THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH A PARAMILITARY CULTURE AT ALL. IT'S A VALID WAY OF POLICING. BUT WHAT THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP OF THIS COUNTY AND CITY HAVE SAID, WE CAN'T AFFORD THAT ANYMORE BECAUSE IT ALIENATES TOO MANY OF THE POOR COMMUNITIES. IT MAKES EVERYBODY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE AN OCCUPIED ARMY, ZIPPING THROUGH THE COMMUNITY, NOT TALKING TO ANYBODY, NOT HAVING THE COMMUNITY TELL YOU WHERE THE CRACK HOUSE IS AND WHO'S REALLY A GOOD KID AND WHO ISN'T, WHO'S A WANNA-BE AND WHO'S A LITTLE PSYCHOPATH.

YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE HELP FROM THE COMMUNITY TO POLICE. IT'S CALLED COMMUNITY POLICING. THAT WHAT THE CITY SAID WE WANT OF LAPD. LAPD JUST SAID NO AND THEY SAID WE'LL DO PARAMILITARY LIGHT. WELL, THAT'S A DEBATE, BUT THE CITY HAS SAID WE DON'T WANT PARAMILITARY LIGHT, WE WANT COMMUNITY POLICING.

VAL>> THAT'LL BE AN IMPORTANT --

CONSTANCE RICE>> -- THAT'LL BE AN IMPORTANT CRITERIA.

VAL>> TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF THE OVERALL POOL. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE DIVERSITY? YOU HAVE FOUR LATINOS, I THINK THERE ARE ALSO ONE BLACK, TWO WOMEN AND EVEN A GAY CANDIDATE. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE DIVERSITY OF THE POOL OF PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE SELECTING FROM?

CONSTANCE RICE>> WELL, IT'S UNIMAGINABLE. TEN YEARS AGO, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN UNIMAGINABLE. DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING? WE'VE MADE PROGRESS. WE'VE MADE QUITE A BIT OF PROGRESS. THIS IS NOT THE LAPD OF TEN YEARS AGO. IT'S ALSO NOT THE CITY OF TEN YEARS AGO, SO WE HAVE A LONG --

JESS>> -- BUT DON'T YOU THINK THEY'LL SELECT A TRADITIONAL COP?

CONSTANCE RICE>> I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO DO AN OLD CULTURE COP. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT THE MAYOR WANTS. IF THEY WANTED AN OLD CULTURE COP, WE WOULD HAVE RE-APPOINTED CHIEF PARKS.

JESS>> ARE ANY OF THE THIRTEEN OLD CULTURE COPS?

CONSTANCE RICE>> YES.

VAL>> HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK RACE IS?

CONSTANCE RICE>> NOT IMPORTANT. I THINK THAT --

VAL>> -- IT'S NOT PART OF YOUR CRITERIA OR --

CONSTANCE RICE>> -- NO. THERE WAS NOTHING ABOUT THAT. WHAT THE CHIEF HAS TO HAVE -- THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE CHICK HEARN HUMAN ABILITIES. THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE CHARLES KURALT HUMAN ABILITIES. THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE TOM BRADLEY HUMAN ABILITIES, PEOPLE WHO WALK INTO A ROOM AND CAN CONNECT WITH ANY KIND OF HUMAN BEING. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT RACE YOU ARE. YOU NEED TO BE FLUENT IN THOSE CULTURES, FAMILIAR WITH OTHER CULTURES, AT EASE WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE. YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A HIGH INTRA-CULTURAL IQ.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT RACE AND GENDER AND ETHNICITY. IT'S ABOUT THE CULTURE OF THE UNION, THE POLITICAL CULTURE OF THE COMMISSION AND THE CITY. YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A HIGH PEOPLE-GROUP SKILLS IQ. THAT'S CRITICAL AS WELL. YEAH, I THINK THAT IT'S GREAT THAT WE HAVE HIGH-QUALITY CANDIDATES FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, BUT THAT'S NOT A CRITERION AT ALL.

VAL>> WELL, IT WILL BE A TOUGH FIND TO FIND THAT --

JESS>> -- SUPER MAN OR SUPER WOMAN.

VAL>> CONNIE RICE, ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING US UP TO DATE.

CONSTANCE RICE>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

JESS>> HE FLEW COMBAT MISSIONS IN KOREA, SHOT DOWN MIG 15'S, AND WAS THE SECOND MAN TO WALK ON THE MOON, SO WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO PUSH BUZZ ALDRIN'S BUTTONS? PATT KNOWS IN TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> SEE THIS FIVE BUCKS? THIS IS THE FIRST CONTRIBUTION TO SOMETHING I'M STARTING RIGHT NOW: THE BUZZ ALDRIN DEFENSE FUND. ALDRIN WAS THE SECOND MAN ON THE MOON AND SOME FELLOW WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT SAYS ALDRIN PUNCHED HIM OUTSIDE A BEVERLY HILLS HOTEL. ALDRIN WENT THERE THINKING HE WAS GOING TO A JAPANESE TV INTERVIEW WHEN IT WAS EVIDENTLY A SETUP BY THE DOUBTER WHO CONFRONTED ALDRIN AND HIS FELLOW ASTRONAUTS BEFORE. NOW THIS MAN REPORTEDLY KEPT POKING ALDRIN WITH A BIBLE AND DEMANDING HE SWEAR THAT HE HAD ACTUALLY BEEN TO THE MOON. FELLA, GET IN LINE. IT'S THE ONE WITH THE SIGN "I'M WITH STUPID".

PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE THE MYSTERIOUS. IT'S EASIER THAN MASTERING THE FACTS AND THE PHYSICS OF THE TRUTH. IT'S ALSO A WAY OF FEELING IN CONTROL OF A CHAOTIC UNIVERSE. MICHAEL SHERMER OF SKEPTIC MAGAZINE EVEN WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THIS ENTITLED "WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE WEIRD THINGS". AMERICANS ESPECIALLY ARE SO ENAMORED AT THE APPEARANCE OF SCIENCE THAT, IF YOU CALL YOURSELF AN "OLOGIST" AND GET A WEBSITE, YOU'RE BOUND TO GET A FOLLOWING. YOU CAN EVEN MAKE MONEY AT THIS. THE MOON DOUBTER HAS BEEN SELLING HIS VIDEO ACCUSING NASA OF FAKING THE MOON LANDING.

SO WE HAVE THOUSANDS WHO STILL BELIEVE THE EARTH IS FLAT, THAT EVOLUTION IS AN ATHEIST CONCOCTION, THAT ELVIS AND JFK ARE ALIVE, AND THAT CROP CIRCLES ARE ALIEN FOOTPRINTS. THERE WAS A FILM, "CAPRICORN ONE", ABOUT A FAKE MOON LANDING, BUT KEEP TELLING YOURSELF IT'S ONLY A MOVIE AND O.J. SIMPSON WAS IN IT. SO GO AHEAD AND BELIEVE ANY OF THIS AS LONG AS YOU DON'T INTERFERE WITH THE RATIONAL WORLD, BUT HOLOCAUST DENIERS DO GREAT DAMAGE AND THE SADLY GULLIBLE BELIEVE THAT A MAN ON TV SPEAKS WITH THE DEAD.

THEN WE HAVE THOSE WHO SHOVE BIBLES UNDER ASTRONAUTS' NOSES. THIS MAN CALLS HIMSELF A JOURNALIST. NOWADAYS, SO DOES JUST ABOUT EVERYONE WITH A VIDEO CAMERA. IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE IT SO. IF SOME PROSECUTOR MAKES A CASE AGAINST ALDRIN FOR DELIVERING WHAT SOUNDED LIKE A WELL-DESERVED BLOW, HERE'S MY FIVE BUCKS FOR HIS DEFENSE FUND. AND IF THE MOON MAN FROM TENNESSEE TAKES ALDRIN TO CIVIL COURT AND WINS, I SUGGEST HE BE PAID OFF IN MOON ROCKS. IF HE SELLS THEM FOR BIG MONEY, WE'LL KNOW HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REALLY VALUABLE ROCKS FROM THE MOON. OTHERWISE, HE'D JUST BE RUNNING A SCAM TRYING TO SELL ORDINARY ROCKS FOR MAJOR BUCKS. IN OTHER WORDS, JUST PEDDLING ANOTHER BIG PILE.

VAL>> HE IS THE VERY DISTANT COUSIN OF AN EXISTENTIALIST WRITER WHO WAS FAMOUS FOR A STORY ABOUT A HUGE COCKROACH. THAT WRITER, AS YOU MAY RECALL FROM PHILOSOPHY CLASS, IS FRANZ KAFKA, AND HIS COUSIN IS DEFINITELY "KAFKAESQUE".

JESS>> THAT'S THE NAME OF A NEW DOCUMENTARY THAT DEBUTS IN LOS ANGELES THIS WEEK. THE SUBJECT IS EGON KAFKA, COUSIN OF FRANZ. EGON HAS A VERY UNUSUAL MISSION IN LIFE. HE COLLECTS AND CARES FOR HUNDREDS OF CLASSIC BUSES. HERE'S A BRIEF LOOK.

EGON KAFKA>> "I THINK THAT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US NOT TO LOSE SIGHT OF THE REAL WORLD AROUND US. WE HAVE A REAL PHYSICAL MATERIAL WORLD WHICH IS FULL OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE, DIFFERENT TOWNS, DIFFERENT TERRAINS, DIFFERENT LANDSCAPES, DIFFERENT CLIMATES. BEFORE WE LOSE IT ALL, WE REALLY OWE IT TO OURSELVES TO GET OUT THERE AND SEE IT INSTEAD OF JUST BEING STUCK AT HOME, A NATION IN A WORLD OF COUCH POTATOES. WHEN PEOPLE REALIZE THE EXTENT OF THIS COLLECTION, THEY CAN SEE HOW MUCH ENERGY IT HAS TAKEN TO GET THIS FAR AND, HOPEFULLY, THEY'LL FEEL LIKE JUMPING ONBOARD THIS BANDWAGON AND HELPING TO PRESERVE THESE FASCINATING HISTORICAL TRANSPORTATION ARTIFACTS."

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS EGON KAFKA, ALONG WITH ONE OF THE FILMMAKERS OF "KAFKAESQUE", SVEN BERKEMEIER. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN.

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

JESS>> EGON, WE CAN UNDERSTAND MATCHBOX CARS OR MAYBE MINIATURE BUSES, BUT WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? WHERE WERE YOU GOING TO PUT THESE? (LAUGHTER)

EGON KAFKA>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THOSE THINGS ARE JUST MODELS, MATCHBOXES. IT IS ACTUALLY -- YOU KNOW, SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE COLLECTED CARS BECAUSE YOU CAN PUT THEM IN YOUR DRIVEWAY AND YOU CAN TAKE ONE TO THE DRIVE-IN EASILY. THEREFORE, BUSES, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE MANUFACTURED IN MUCH SMALLER NUMBERS TO BEGIN WITH, SO THEY'RE RARE, SO FEW HAVE BEEN SAVED AT THIS POINT. THESE ARE TRULY RARE ARTIFACTS OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, THE MECHANICAL AGE.

VAL>> WHAT'S THE OLDEST ONE YOU HAVE?

EGON KAFKA>> THE OLDEST COACH AT OUR YARD CURRENTLY IS A 1932 INDIANA SCHOOL BUS. THAT WAS A SUBSIDIARY OF WHITE.

VAL>> DOES IT WORK?

EGON KAFKA>> YES, IT RUNS JUST FINE.

JESS>> SVEN, IN MAKING THE DOCUMENTARY, HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN AT THIS?

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> WE STARTED IN THE MID-NINETIES AND IT TOOK US ABOUT THREE YEARS. US, THAT IS, RICH SAMUELS, MY CO-PRODUCER AND CO-DIRECTOR AND MYSELF. THEN WE NEEDED ABOUT TWO YEARS FOR POST-PRODUCTION.

JESS>> BUT HE KEPT ADDING TO HIS COLLECTION.

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> HE'S STILL ADDING. I JUST HEARD HE HAS BUS NUMBER, WHAT, 112 NOW?

EGON KAFKA>> 112 IS NOW TAKING UP RESIDENCE IN OUR YARD.

VAL>> NOW DO PEOPLE DONATE THESE BUSES? DO YOU HAVE TO BUY THEM? HOW DO YOU ACQUIRE THEM?

EGON KAFKA>> EVERY BUS HAS A DIFFERENT STORY. SOME OF THEM HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN DONATED. SOME WERE LITERALLY ABANDONED BY THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND WE PICKED THEM UP FROM IMPOUND YARDS. MANY OF THEM WERE BOUGHT FROM AGENCIES AS THEY LEFT SERVICE. SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ACQUISITIONS RECENTLY HAVE COME FROM OTHER COLLECTORS WHO ARE HELPING US TO CARRY ON THE TRADITION. THEY KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE.

JESS>> A FASCINATING LOOK AT THOSE, BUT WHAT DO THE NEIGHBORS THINK? (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> DO YOU HAVE ANY NEIGHBORS? (LAUGHTER)

EGON KAFKA>> (LAUGHTER) PRESENTLY, THE BUS YARD IS OUT IN FONTANA IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHICH IS ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE FOR THIS SORT OF THING. I'M NOT ALLOWED TO PARK THEM AT HOME (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> IT MUST COST YOU A FAIR AMOUNT OF MONEY TO, WHAT, KEEP THEM CLEAN, KEEP THEM WORKING. I MEAN, HOW DO YOU FUND THIS HOBBY?

EGON KAFKA>> MOST OF THIS FUNDING ACTUALLY COMES FROM ME AT THIS POINT AND THAT'S A SITUATION THAT HAS TO BE RECTIFIED (LAUGHTER). IT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THE PUBLIC TO OWN AN INSTITUTION WHICH WILL BE KNOWN AS THE AMERICAN ROAD TRANSPORT MUSEUM, WHICH WILL SAVE BUSES AND TRUCKS AND SPECIALIZED COMMERCIAL VEHICLES AND TEACH HISTORY, HAVE OUTREACH PROGRAMS TO GO INTO THE SCHOOLS. WE'RE WORKING WITH A NUMBER OF ESTABLISHED ORGANIZATIONS, INCLUDING THE SMITHSONIAN, THE RED CROSS, AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS ON A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS.

VAL>> IT'S A BIG PLAN. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK NOW AT ANOTHER CLIP FROM SVEN'S FILM. HERE IT IS.

EGON KAFKA>> "WE HAVE ABOUT THIRTY COACHES RIGHT NOW THAT ARE NON-RUNNERS. MANY OF THEM HAVE MINOR PROBLEMS. A COUPLE OF THEM JUST DON'T HAVE ANY ENGINES AT ALL AT THE MOMENT, BUT IT'S ONE STEP AT A TIME, ONE PROJECT AT A TIME, ONE BUS AT A TIME. THEIR VALUE IS SELF-EVIDENT. THIS IS HOW PEOPLE GOT AROUND IN THE THIRTIES. YEAH, THEY NEED A LITTLE WORK."

JESS>> SVEN, TO WHAT EXTENT WERE YOU DRAWN TO THIS BY THE NAME KAFKA?

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> QUITE A BIT. I GREW UP IN GERMANY AND, DURING MY DAYS IN SCHOOL, WE READ QUITE A BIT OF FRANZ KAFKA LITERATURE. AS SOON AS I HEARD KAFKA, THAT RANG A BELL. THAT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY ENTICING.

EGON KAFKA>> THE COCKROACH WAS ACTUALLY A DUNG BEETLE, WASN'T IT?

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> WAS IT? I'M NOT SURE.

EGON KAFKA>> THAT'S WHAT I'VE HEARD.

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> THAT'S NEW.

EGON KAFKA>> YOUR GERMAN IS BETTER THAN MINE.

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> REALLY?

VAL>> NOW ARE YOU AN EXPERT ON YOUR DISTANT COUSIN, FRANZ?

EGON KAFKA>> I'VE READ A LOT OF KAFKA, BUT I'M NOT AN ACADEMIC EXPERT, NO, NOT PER SE.

JESS>> BUT AN EXPERT ON BUSES INDEED.

EGON KAFKA>> I'VE BECOME A BIT OF AN TRANSPORTAGONIST, THAT'S FOR SURE.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) NOW IF YOUR BIG MUSEUM DOESN'T COME TO BE, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THESE BUSES? DO YOU HAVE AN HEIR APPARENT?

EGON KAFKA>> THIS MUSEUM IS COMING TO BE. AS WE SPEAK, WE'RE PUTTING TOGETHER A FOUNDING BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE.

JESS>> THE SMITHSONIAN IS INTERESTED?

EGON KAFKA>> WE'RE DONATING AN ART DECO BUS TO THE SMITHSONIAN AND, IN NOVEMBER OF NEXT YEAR, THERE WILL BE OPENING AN ALL NEW AMERICAN HISTORY MUSEUM AND INCLUDED IN THAT WILL BE, I BELIEVE, SEVENTEEN DIFFERENT TRANSPORTATION-RELATED TABLEAUS.

VAL>> AND, SVEN, WHAT DO YOU HOPE THIS FILM WILL MEAN?

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> I HOPE THAT HE WILL FINALLY REACH HIS ULTIMATE GOAL TO OPEN UP A NEW MUSEUM FOR ALL OF HIS BUSES THAT JUST KEEP ADDING ON.

VAL>> GETTING THE WORD OUT.

SVEN BERKEMEIER>> IT'S GETTING THE WORD OUT AND THE FILM CERTAINLY HELPS DOING THAT.

EGON KAFKA>> GIVING BIRTH TO AN INSTITUTION.

JESS>> "KAFKAESQUE" IS SCREENING THROUGHOUT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THIS WEEK. TO FIND OUT SHOW TIMES, YOU CAN CHECK THE WEBSITES ON YOUR SCREEN. IT OPENS TOMORROW AT DOCTOBER FILM FESTIVAL. SATURDAY IT'S AT THE BIG BEAR FILM FESTIVAL, AND SUNDAY IT GOES TO THE SILVER LAKE INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL.

[WWW.DOCUMENTARY.ORG]
[WWW.BIGBEARLAKEFILMFESTIVAL.COM]
[WWW.SILVERLAKEFILMFESTIVAL.COM]

VAL>> AND DON'T FORGET TO CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON LIFE AND TIMES.

EGON KAFKA>> I SURE HOPE YOU PUT A LINK THERE.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WE'LL TRY.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.