9/13/02

LC020913

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> A DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN. THAT'S WHAT SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT CALIFORNIA'S FORESTS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN THINNED FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY.

MIKE DIETRICH>> IF THERE WERE A FIRE TO OCCUR IN HERE RIGHT NOW, THE FIRE WOULD BE ON THE GROUND, IT WOULD GET UP INTO THE NEEDLES AND BRANCHES AND ESSENTIALLY GO RIGHT UP INTO THE TOPS OF THE CROWNS OF THE TREES AND, INSTEAD OF HAVING ONE TO TWO FOOT FLAME LENGTHS THAT WE ORIGINALLY MIGHT HAVE HAD A HUNDRED YEARS AGO, WE NOW HAVE FLAME LENGTHS THAT ARE A HUNDRED TO TWO HUNDRED FEET TALL.

VAL>> DOES AMERICA OWE THE DESCENDANTS OF FORMER SLAVES A CHECK AND AN APOLOGY? TONIGHT WE'LL FIND OUT WHY THE COUNTRY IS STILL AT ODDS OVER A PRACTICE THAT ENDED NEARLY A HUNDRED FORTY YEARS AGO. WE'LL LOOK AT BOTH SIDES OF THE CALL FOR REPARATIONS.

JESS>> AND THEN WE'LL JOIN THE SEARCH FOR ONE OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA'S MOST ILLUSIVE CHARACTERS, 'NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN'.

BRIDGET MORROW>> NATIVE OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, MID-FIFTIES, HOMELESS VIETNAM VET.

JESS>> HE'S OUT THERE SOMEWHERE, BUT JUST WHO IS THIS MYSTERY MAN? TONIGHT WE'LL CRISSCROSS THE VALLEY IN HOPES OF PICKING UP SOME CLUES.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW. IS IT POSSIBLE TO LOVE A FOREST TO DEATH? THAT'S A SERIOUS QUESTION FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEAR DENSE STANDS OF CALIFORNIA TIMBER. FOR MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS, THOSE AREAS HAVE BEEN SO DEAR THAT NO ONE DARED TO CUT THE TREES.

VAL>> BUT NOW, EVEN SOME NATURE LOVERS ARE STARTING TO WONDER IF THE FORESTS HAVE BEEN OVER-PROTECTED TO THE POINT OF CREATING A MAJOR FIRE HAZARD. TONIGHT GAY YEE TAKES US TO LAKE ARROWHEAD, A PLACE THAT HAS A LOT TO LOSE IF THE TREES GO UP IN FLAMES.

GAY YEE>> LAKE ARROWHEAD'S BEAUTY AND SERENITY ARE LEGENDARY, BUT SOME SAY THEY CONCEAL A TROUBLING FACT: THIS LANDMARK RESORT COMMUNITY IS SITTING ATOP A POWDER KEG. THE THREAT COMES FROM LAKE ARROWHEAD'S GREATEST RESOURCE, ITS TREES, WHICH HAVEN'T BEEN CUT TO A LARGE DEGREE IN MORE THAN A CENTURY. IN THIS PART OF THE SAN BERNARDINO NATIONAL FOREST, THE WOODS ARE THICK AND CRACKLING DRY. IF THERE WERE A FIRE HERE TODAY, SOME WORRY THAT IT WOULD BE A CATASTROPHE.

DONNA NEWLIN>> I'M ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED.

GAY YEE>> DONNA NEWLIN KNOWS FIRE DANGER. SHE'S A MEMBER OF THE MOUNTAIN RIM FIRE SAFE COUNCIL. SHE KNOWS THAT, WHEN IT COMES TO FIRE, IT'S NOT IF, BUT WHEN.

DONNA NEWLIN>> WHERE WE'RE STANDING RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE A NATIONAL FOREST RIGHT HERE WITH A CAMPGROUND. DURING THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER, THEY'LL GET THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE COME UP HERE AND HAVE BARBECUES AND WANT THEIR KIDS TO PLAY IN THE WOODS, YET RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, OUR COMMUNITY HOSPITAL SITS.

MIKE DIETRICH>> THIS AREA IS EXTREMELY DENSE. AS WE WALK THROUGH HERE, YOU CAN SEE THE ACCUMULATION OF FUELS, THE NUMBERS OF TREES, THE GROUND ACCUMULATION.

GAY YEE>> THE DEPARTMENT OF FORESTRY'S MIKE DIETRICH SAYS THE OLD "SMOKY THE BEAR" PHILOSOPHY OF PREVENTING AND SUPPRESSING FIRES HAS, IN SOME WAYS, PROTECTED FORESTS TOO MUCH. SOME AREAS HAVE GROWN UNDISTURBED SINCE THEY WERE CUT BY LOGGERS IN THE LATE 1800’S. A CENTURY AGO, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN FIFTY TO ONE HUNDRED TREES IN ONE ACRE. TODAY THERE ARE AS MANY AS 3,000 TREES IN THE SAME SPACE.

MIKE DIETRICH>> IF THERE WERE A FIRE TO OCCUR IN HERE RIGHT NOW, THE FIRE WOULD BE ON THE GROUND, IT WOULD GET UP INTO THE NEEDLES AND BRANCHES AND ESSENTIALLY GO RIGHT UP INTO THE TOPS OF THE CROWNS OF THE TREES AND, INSTEAD OF HAVING ONE TO TWO FOOT FLAME LENGTHS THAT WE ORIGINALLY MIGHT HAVE HAD A HUNDRED YEARS AGO, WE NOW HAVE FLAME LENGTHS THAT ARE A HUNDRED TO TWO HUNDRED FEET TALL.

GAY YEE>> THESE HAVE BECOME MEGA-FORESTS THAT FUEL MEGA-FIRES. SO ME AS A PEDESTRIAN, I MEAN, ME COMING IN FROM THE OUTSIDE LOOKING AT THE WOODS, I SEE WHAT A BEAUTIFUL FOREST.

MIKE DIETRICH>> AND I SEE WHAT A TREMENDOUS FUEL AND FIRE HAZARD AND I SAY, YES, IT’S VERY PRETTY, BUT WHERE AM I GOING TO BE WHEN THE FIRE COMES THROUGH?

GAY YEE>> WILDFIRES FUELED BY THIS DENSE OVERGROWTH HAVE BURNED OVER SIX MILLION ACRES ACROSS THE NATION THIS YEAR, MOST OF IT IN THE WESTERN STATES. MANY FEDERAL LANDS LIKE THE SAN BERNARDINO NATIONAL FOREST ARE WAITING TINDERBOXES.

GEORGE W. BUSH>> IT MAY MAKE SENSE TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FORESTS ARE NOT ONLY HEALTHY FROM DISEASE, BUT ARE HEALTHY FROM FIRE. THAT'S WHAT WE’VE GOT TO DO HERE IN AMERICA. WE HAVEN’T DONE THAT IN THE PAST. WE JUST HAVEN’T DONE IT AND WE’RE NOW PAYING THE PRICE.

GAY YEE>> IF APPROVED BY CONGRESS, THE PRESIDENT’S PLAN WOULD ALLOW LOGGING OF SOME OLDER TREES AS WELL AS THE WORTHLESS UNDERBRUSH ON MILLIONS OF ACRES OF FEDERAL LANDS, RELY ON PRIVATE LOGGING COMPANIES TO DO MORE OF THAT WORK, AND GIVE THEM LEEWAY TO MAKE MONEY ON THE WOOD THEY CLEAR. BUT THE BUSH PLAN WOULD ALSO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF APPEALS OF FOREST SERVICE DECISIONS TO ALLOW TIMBER SALES AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS SAY THAT FIGHTING FIRE WITH LOGGING DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.

PETER JORRIS>> TO ME, THAT’S, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE INVITING ENRON IN TO DEVELOP THE ENERGY POLICY AND TELLING THE PUBLIC THAT THEY CAN’T GET INVOLVED.

GAY YEE>> JORRIS SAYS IT’S ALL A SMOKESCREEN.

PETER JORRIS>> THEY PRETTY MUCH ARE GIVEN CARTE BLANCHE AND, YOU KNOW, THERE’S REALLY NO WAY TO, YOU KNOW, CHECK TO SEE WHETHER THEY’RE REALLY FOLLOWING THE LEGITIMATE GUIDELINES THAT WERE SET UP IN THE BEGINNING AND THERE’S NO REPERCUSSION IF THEY DON’T.

GAY YEE>> THE FOREST SERVICE REPORTS NEARLY HALF OF FIRE REDUCTION PROJECTS ARE DELAYED EVERY YEAR BY CHALLENGES FROM ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS. THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS SAY THE NUMBER OF PROJECTS ACTUALLY APPEALED IS CLOSER TO ONE PERCENT. IN THE MEANTIME, THE FOREST AND ITS PEOPLE ARE LIVING ON THE EDGE.

DONNA NEWLIN>> SOMETHING’S GOT TO BE DONE. IT’S INEVITABLE. THIS AREA HAS BEEN BURNED BEFORE. IT’S GOING TO BURN AGAIN. I DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY COULD DO, OTHER THAN MAKE IT RAIN (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> GAY YEE JOINS US NOW. GAY, IF THE ISSUE IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO THIN THE FORESTS, TO CUT THE UNDERBRUSH, WOULD IT BE NECESSARY TO CUT THE OLD GROWTH?

GAY YEE>> WELL, PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE IS MONEY. IT COSTS THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO CLEAR WHAT THEY CALL THE UNDERSTORY. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT MILLIONS OF ACRES. THE FORESTRY DEPARTMENT SAYS THEY CAN’T AFFORD TO DO ALL THAT, SO IT’S WORTH THEIR WHILE TO HAVE THE PRIVATE COMPANIES COME IN, GIVE THEM SOME OF THE BIGGER TREES -- THEY’RE SAYING MEDIUM-SIZED TREES, A DIAMETER OF TWENTY-FOUR INCHES PERHAPS -- GIVE THEM SOME OF THOSE, SO IT’S WORTH THEIR WHILE TO ALSO TAKE OUT THE UNDERBRUSH AND THE UNDERSTORY, THROWING THEM A BONE.

VAL>> I SEE. WHAT IS THE FEEL -- OKAY, WE KNOW WHERE THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS STAND AND WE KNOW WHERE THE BUSH SUPPORTERS STAND. ANY IDEA WHERE THE HOMEOWNERS IN ARROWHEAD -- WHAT DO THEY FEEL ABOUT THIS?

GAY YEE>> YOU KNOW, THEY’RE FEELING SOME CHANGE DRAMATICALLY OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A MAJOR FIRE THAT WENT THROUGH THERE AND IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF WIND CONDITIONS. INSTEAD OF GOING UP TO LAKE ARROWHEAD, IT WENT TO APPLE VALLEY AND BURNED SEVERAL HOMES DOWN THERE. THAT WAS A WAKE-UP POINT FOR THEM TO SAY, HAD THE WINDS BEEN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, THAT HOSPITAL YOU SAW WOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN OUT.

VAL>> SO THEY ARE FOR --

GAY YEE>> -- NOW THEY ARE FOR IT. THERE WERE ORDINANCES AT ONE TIME THAT SAID THEY COULDN’T EVEN CUT TREES AROUND THEIR HOMES. MANY OF THESE TREES ARE RIGHT UP AGAINST THEIR HOMES AND NOW THEY’RE SEEING THAT THERE IS A NEED TO THIN THAT FOREST.

JESS>> ONE OF THE MORE, I WOULD SAY, DRACONIAN MEASURES IN THE BUSH PLAN IS THAT FEDERAL JUDGES WOULD BE BARRED BY THIS LEGISLATION FROM ISSUING TEMPORARY INJUNCTIONS TO STOP THE PROJECTS AND TO REQUIRE THEY CONSIDER THE IMPACT ON HUMANS.

GAY YEE>> AND THAT’S WHAT THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE SAYING, THAT WHERE ARE THE WATCHDOGS NOW? THEY AGREE THAT THE FORESTS DO NEED TO BE THINNED. EVERYONE AGREES ABOUT THAT, BUT IT’S OPENING THAT DOOR AND THEY’RE ALWAYS SUSPICIOUS ABOUT OPENING THAT DOOR FOR PRIVATE BUSINESSES AND PRIVATE LOGGERS TO COME IN.

VAL>> WITHOUT THE CHECKS AND BALANCES.

GAY YEE>> EXACTLY.

VAL>> GAY YEE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, THEY’VE ALREADY WRECKED PART OF CALIFORNIA’S WINE COUNTRY, SO WHY IS A NASTY LITTLE BUG GETTING THE RED CARPET TREATMENT IN VENTURA COUNTY?

>> THAT WHITE SPOT ON HER SIDE TELLS US THAT SHE’S PREGNANT OR GRAVID AND THAT SHE’S READY TO LAY EGGS, SO THAT’S A GOOD ONE.

JESS>> IT IS AN ISSUE THAT ONCE TORE AMERICA APART LITERALLY. NOW SLAVERY IS DIVIDING PEOPLE ONCE AGAIN. ONLY THIS TIME, THE FIGHT IS OVER WHETHER THE DESCENDANTS OF FORMER SLAVES DESERVE SOME KIND OF COMPENSATION FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. THESE SO-CALLED REPARATIONS COULD INVOLVE CASH PAYMENTS OR SOMETHING AS SYMBOLIC AS A FORMAL APOLOGY.

VAL>> TONIGHT WE’LL LOOK AT BOTH SIDES OF THE REPARATION DEBATE. JOINING US FOR THAT ARE EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON, A PUBLIC AFFAIRS HOST ON KPFK RADIO IN LOS ANGELES WHO SUPPORTS REPARATIONS, AND JIM HIRSEN, A SYNDICATED COMMENTATOR ON KPLS RADIO WHO HAS A VERY DIFFERENT OPINION. WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU, TO LIFE AND TIMES.

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

JIM HIRSEN>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

JESS>> GENTLEMEN, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT REPARATIONS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT ACTUALLY CORPORATIONS ARE BEING SUED?

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> YEAH. IN THE PAST YEAR, WE’VE SEEN A NUMBER OF LAWSUITS AGAINST CORPORATIONS. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE IS NOW A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT -- JOHNNIE COCHRAN, I THINK YOU KNOW THE NAME -- ATTORNEY COCHRAN AND ALSO PROFESSOR CHARLES OGLETREE AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY. THEY SIGNED ON TO A MAJOR, MAJOR CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT, A NUMBER OF PLAINTIFFS IN THE NEW YORK AREA, THE PENNSYLVANIA AREA AND WASHINGTON, D.C. SO THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS, IT HAS COME TO A HEAD. IT HAS BECOME A MAJOR NATIONAL ISSUE.

VAL>> WHAT’S THE REASONING AS TO WHY CORPORATIONS WOULD BE --

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> -- WELL, LET’S GO BACK TO CALIFORNIA. THERE WAS A RECENT STUDY FROM THE CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE ON INSURANCE COMPANIES IN CALIFORNIA. WHAT THEY FOUND WAS -- BY THE WAY, THERE WAS SLAVERY IN CALIFORNIA TOO -- WHAT THEY FOUND WAS THAT A NUMBER OF CORPORATIONS, INSURANCE COMPANIES, ACTUALLY DID A LOT OF BUSINESS BY INSURING SLAVES “AS PROPERTY” AND, AS A RESULT OF THAT, MANY OF THESE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE STILL AROUND TODAY. SO THE THEORY IS LET’S GO AFTER THEM, THEY HAVE DEEP POCKETS, THEY STILL EXIST AND THERE’S NOT ONLY AN HISTORIC OBLIGATION, A DEBT IF YOU MAY, BUT ALSO THEY’RE THERE AND THEY’RE CULPABLE. SO THE LEGAL LIABILITY, THEY’RE GOING AFTER THEM.

VAL>> THERE’S ALSO TOBACCO, TEXTILE, RAILROAD, ANYBODY WHO PROFITED FROM --

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> -- YOU CAN GO DOWN THE CHECKLIST, SO IT’S NOT JUST GOVERNMENTS. IT’S CORPORATIONS TOO.

JESS>> YOU OBJECT CERTAINLY TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT PAYING REPARATIONS, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LAWSUITS? WHAT’S YOUR POSITION ON THAT?

JAMES HIRSEN>> WELL, I THINK THE LAWSUITS ARE UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE THEY LUMP AN ISSUE THAT WANTS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AND IT TAKES AWAY FROM THE NOBILITY OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS CAUSE BECAUSE IT’S LUMPED TOGETHER WITH THE TOBACCO SUITS, WITH FAST FOOD SUITS, WITH CLASS ACTION SUITS. IT GIVES THAT IMPRESSION OF SORT OF THE MONEY-GRUBBING LAWYER HANDING OUT BUSINESS CARDS.

IT ALSO FOCUSES THE ATTENTION ON THESE LARGE DOLLAR FIGURES WHICH THESE CLASS ACTIONS HAVE ASKED FOR, WHICH AMOUNTS TO UNGODLY SUMS OF MONEY, TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS WHICH NEITHER THE CORPORATION NOR THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, IN REALITY, COULD EVER PAY. IT BRINGS IT DOWN TO A VERY MUNDANE LEVEL. I MEAN, I THINK THAT’S A PART OF IT.

VAL>> DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, EARL? DO YOU THINK LAWSUITS ARE THE WAY TO GO OR NOT?

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> YOU KNOW, I THINK BEYOND JUST THE MONEY. I THINK THERE’S A BIGGER ISSUE HERE. THE BIGGER ISSUE IS LOOKING AT THE ISSUE OF RACE AND POVERTY IN AMERICA AND I THINK -- I’VE ALWAYS FELT THAT THE REPARATIONS DEBATE, IF NOTHING ELSE, WHAT IT’S DONE IS, ONCE AGAIN, KIND OF DONE A LASER KIND OF FOCUS ON THESE ISSUES. NOT ONLY SLAVERY. I MEAN, THAT WAS A HUNDRED FIFTY YEARS AGO. THERE ARE NO SLAVES ALIVE TODAY THAT I KNOW OF. BUT, HOWEVER, WITH THE DESCENDANTS OF SLAVES AND THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY, THERE ARE STILL THINGS THAT NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON. FOR EXAMPLE, FAILING PUBLIC SCHOOLS, LACK OF ADEQUATE HEALTHCARE, DISPARITIES IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, CRIME, DRUGS, VIOLENCE, THE POVERTY. I THINK IT’S OKAY TO HAVE THAT DEBATE --

JESS>> -- AND THOSE WERE A RESULT OF SLAVERY?

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> I LIKE TO USE THE TERM THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY. I THINK THAT’S MUCH MORE OPERATIVE THAN JUST SAYING, OKAY, MONEY FOR SLAVES THAT ARE NOT EVEN AROUND ANYMORE. BY FOCUSING ON THAT, I THINK YOU TAKE IT AWAY FROM KIND OF THIS EMOTIONAL THING ABOUT PAYING MONEY OUT JUST FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, GENERATIONS AGO. PEOPLE ARE NOT EVEN ALIVE TODAY.

JAMES HIRSEN>> SEE, I THINK THE IMPRESSION IS --

JESS>> -- DO YOU ALSO OPPOSE AN APOLOGY?

JAMES HIRSEN>> OH, CERTAINLY NOT, AS SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT LOOK, I THINK IT’S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT MY FRIEND EARL IS SAYING. I THINK IT’S DISTRACTING FROM THE REAL ISSUES, FROM THE ILLITERACY, FROM THE POVERTY, FROM THE BROKEN FAMILIES. IT’S DISTRACTING FROM THAT AND FOCUSING ON A VERY CRASS COMMODITY: MONEY. AND THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH LEGALITY, WITH MORALITY, AND PROBLEMS WITH THE IDEA OF EQUITABLY ADMINISTERING ANY OF THESE PROPOSALS. THERE ARE SO MANY REPARATION PROPOSALS, THE REPARATION MOVEMENT CERTAINLY HAS NO AGREEMENT, BUT IT’S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ADMINISTER BECAUSE WHO ARE THE VICTIMS AND WHO ARE THE WRONGDOERS? THE WRONGDOERS ARE DEAD HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO AND THE VICTIMS ARE GOING TO BE DEFINED MERELY BY SKIN COLOR? THAT’S PROFILING, ISN’T IT?

JESS>> BUT THAT THE MONEY WOULD BE NOT TO THE DESCENDANTS THEMSELVES, BUT TO A FUND THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE SOCIAL PROBLEMS YOU TALK ABOUT?

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> WELL, JAMES, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT. YOU MENTIONED BEFORE THAT THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT ASPECTS TO THIS. I MEAN, SO MANY DIFFERENT PLANS. IT’S NOT A MONOLITH. SOME ARE SAYING, YEAH, MONEY FOR THE PAST, BUT THEN THERE ARE OTHERS, JESS, THAT DO SAY WHAT ABOUT A FUND -- NOT NECESSARILY GOVERNMENT AND MAYBE NOT EVEN CORPORATIONS -- BUT SOME KIND OF MANDATED FUND THAT DOES IN FACT DEAL WITH THE VERY PRESSING NEEDS -- AND WE’VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THEM -- OF THE NEEDIEST OF THE NEEDY AND THE POOREST OF THE POOR. I THINK IT’S ABSURD TO TALK ABOUT GIVING MONEY TO OPRAH WINFREY OR MICHAEL JORDAN. I THINK IT WOULD BE LAUGHED OUT OF THERE FOR THAT. BUT I THINK THERE IS A GREAT NEED WHEN WE DEAL WITH THE MANY SOCIAL PROBLEMS AND ECONOMIC PROBLEMS AND DISPARITY IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE MONEY --

JAMES HIRSEN>> -- BUT WE’VE THROWN TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THAT POT ALREADY AND THE FEAR IS THAT, ONCE YOU GET THIS KIND OF MONEY, BLACK AMERICANS WOULD NEVER SEE IT, THAT IT WOULD GO TO LAWYERS, TO POLITICIANS AND TO SOME OF THE SO-CALLED BLACK LEADERSHIP. THE BULK OF IT WOULD GO THERE AND GO TO BUREAUCRACIES AS MUCH OF THE MONEY HAS IN THE WELFARE PROGRAMS THAT HAVE THROWN THESE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS AT PROBLEMS --

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> -- BUT NOT NECESSARILY, NOT NECESSARILY. OBVIOUSLY, THAT DANGER IS THERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, AS YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, WHAT ABOUT A FUND? I KNOW PROFESSOR OGLETREE AND RANDALL ROBINSON, SOME OF THE MORE RESPONSIBLE MEMBERS OF THE REPARATIONS MOVEMENT, HAVE IN FACT GUARDED AGAINST THAT BY SAYING THIS MONEY IS NOT GOING TO GO TO HIGH-PRICED INFLATED ATTORNEYS. IT’S NOT GOING TO GO FOR LEGAL COSTS AND ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS. THERE’S GOING TO BE A COMMITTEE, THERE’S GOING TO BE A BOARD AND ESSENTIALLY THIS WOULD BE VERY BROAD-BASED AND COMMUNITY-ORIENTED. THAT IN FACT WOULD BE SET UP. FOR WHATEVER MONIES THAT COME IN THAT WOULD BE ADMINISTERED AND IT WOULD BE ENSURED THAT THAT MONEY WOULD GO TO THE NEEDIEST OF THE NEEDY. I THINK THAT’S A RESPONSIBLE PROPOSAL WITHOUT PICKING EVERYBODY’S POCKETS.

VAL>> BUT AGAIN, I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS, THESE ARE PROBLEMS THAT SHOULD BE DEALT WITH REGARDLESS OF ONE’S POSITION ON REPARATIONS. WHY DO YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH A VERY LONG EXPENSIVE LAWSUIT THAT MAY OR MAY NOT SUCCEED TO GET MONEY THAT SHOULD BE SPENT ANYWAY TO GIVE EVERY CHILD A DECENT EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE, ETC., ETC.?

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BUT IS IT MONEY BEING SPENT ANYWAY NOW?

JAMES HIRSEN>> AND THERE’S A MORAL DICTATE THAT’S BEING VIOLATED. IT’S A BASIC COMMON MORAL DICTATE AND THAT IS THAT ONE PERSON SHOULDN’T PAY FOR ANOTHER PERSON’S CRIMES. I MEAN, THAT’S WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS WHEN IT OUTLAWS BILLS OF ATTAINDER. THE IDEA THAT SOMEHOW THERE SHOULD BE PEOPLE COMPENSATING PEOPLE FOR WRONGDOING FOR THINGS THAT HAPPENED BEFORE THEY WERE BORN? --

VAL>> -- BUT HOW ABOUT THE INTERNMENT --

JAMES HIRSEN>> -- A LOT OF THOSE WERE IMMIGRANTS TO THIS COUNTRY THAT NEVER HAD ANCESTORS THAT FOLLOWED SLAVERY.

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> BUT, JAMES, HOW WOULD YOU ANSWER THIS, THOUGH? AS YOU WELL KNOW AS AN ATTORNEY, THERE IS A LIVE BODY OF THE LAW THAT IN FACT SETS UP COMPENSATION FOR VICTIMIZATIONS OF PAST ABUSES AND INJUSTICES. I MEAN, WE CAN GO DOWN THE LONG LIST. HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS, NATIVE-AMERICANS --

VAL>> -- JAPANESE-AMERICANS.

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> -- JAPANESE-AMERICANS, AND MANY OF THEM ARE NOT LIVING ANYMORE, BY THE WAY --

JAMES HIRSEN>> -- TO THE ACTUAL VICTIMS. WHO ARE THE VICTIMS? NOT TO DEFEND AMERICANS --

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> -- TREATY RIGHTS FOR NATIVE-AMERICANS, MANY OF THEM ARE NOT AROUND ANYMORE --

JAMES HIRSEN>> - SO THEREBY IS ANOTHER ISSUE BECAUSE THEN THIS SETS A PRECEDENT AND THERE’S A LONG LINE OF PEOPLE. I MEAN, HOW ABOUT WOMEN? WOMEN WERE DENIED THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

VAL>> YEAH.

JAMES HIRSEN>> SEE, VAL LIKES THE IDEA. HOW ABOUT THE CHINESE WHO BUILT THE RAILROADS --

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> -- WELL, THEN, IF VAL LIKES IT, I WOULD SAY THERE NEEDS TO BE A MOVEMENT THERE TOO. BUT I THINK STILL, WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, AMERICA STILL HAS A DEBT AND AN OBLIGATION TO DEAL WITH THE UNRESOLVED, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, WHETHER IT’S REPARATIONS, WHETHER IT’S DEALING WITH SPECIAL FUNDS, WHETHER YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT LEGISLATION OR OTHER KINDS OF INITIATIVES, TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUES OF RACE AND POVERTY. I HAVE TO SUBMIT THIS. WE STILL HAVE THAT LEGACY THERE AND IT’S STILL DIVIDING US BECAUSE WE’RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION NOW. SO AT SOME POINT -- AND BY THE WAY, THE MOVEMENT IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. IT HAS TO BE DEALT WITH. I JUST WANT TO SEE A MORE RESPONSIBLE FOCUS ON THE ISSUE OF RACE AND POVERTY AND NOT JUST LAWSUITS AND CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENT, BUT DEALING, VAL, AS YOU SAID BEFORE, WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE VERY MUCH ON THE TABLE AND SHOULD BE IN OUR --

JESS>> -- SO AN APOLOGY WOULD BE AN EMPTY GESTURE, HUH?

VAL>> LAST FIFTEEN SECONDS.

JAMES HIRSEN>> OKAY, YOU’VE HEARD THIS BEFORE. 500,000 DEAD, 230,000 WOUNDED IN A WAR THAT, IN PART, WAS FOUGHT TO END SLAVERY. WHAT ABOUT THE DESCENDANTS OF THOSE PEOPLE?

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON>> WHAT ABOUT THEM?

VAL>> THAT WILL HAVE TO BE THE LAST WORD. JAMES HIRSEN FROM ORANGE COUNTY, THANK YOU SO MUCH. EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON, ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU. THANKS.

JAMES HIRSEN>> THANK YOU.

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JESS>> IF YOU LIKE MYSTERIES, YOU’RE IN FOR A TREAT. WE’RE ABOUT TO LAUNCH A SEARCH FOR A BONA FIDE MYSTERY MAN IN THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY. IN FACT, HE IS SO STEALTHY THAT WE DON’T EVEN KNOW HIS NAME. ALL WE KNOW FOR SURE IS THAT HE IS CALLED “NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN”.

VAL>> IS HE FLESH AND BLOOD OR IS HE A FIGMENT OF SOMEBODY’S IMAGINATION? WE CAN’T TELL YOU FOR SURE, BUT WE DO KNOW ONE THING: ONE YOUNG WOMAN IS HOT ON HIS TRAIL AND YOU’LL SEE WHY IN THIS SHORT MOVIE THAT IS PART OF THE SILVER LAKE FILM FESTIVAL. IT’S CALLED “NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN”.

BRIDGET MORROW>> HI, I’M BRIDGET MORROW AND I’M ONE OF THE PRODUCERS OF “NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN”.

[FILM CLIP]

BRIDGET MORROW>> FIRST HE TOLD ME HE WANTED TO MAKE A FILM ABOUT BLACK STRIPPERS IN THE HOOD. YOU KNOW, I LIKE BLACK STRIPPERS AND WE DON’T GO TO THE HOOD NEARLY ENOUGH, BUT ALL HE ENDED UP DOING WAS SPENDING MONEY ON LAP DANCERS AND FREAKING OUT ALL THE STRIPPERS WITH THE CAMERA. THEN HE GOT THE IDEA THAT HE WANTED TO MAKE A DOCUMENTARY ON THE BLACK PORN INDUSTRY. I DECIDED THAT WE SHOULD MAKE A FILM ABOUT SOMEBODY I LIKE TO CALL THE “NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN”.

>> THERE? ON THE CORNER? ALL RIGHT TO VIDEO?

BRIDGET MORROW>> NO, THAT’S AN HISPANIC WOMAN. OUR MAN IS BLACK. OUR MAN IS BLACK. THAT WASN’T HIM.

NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN IS A FIXTURE. HE LEADS AN INTERESTING LIFE. NATIVE OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, MID-FIFTIES, HOMELESS VIETNAM VET. HE LIVES IN MY BUS. I DON’T MIND.

THIS IS LIFE ON THE HOMELESS STREETS OF NORTH HOLLYWOOD. MY FEET HURT. I CAN’T SEEM TO FIND HIM. HE LIKES TO LIVE ON THE STREETS JUST LIKE THIS, JUST LIKE THIS. I CANNOT BELIEVE HE COMES FROM HIS HOUSE EVERY DAY OF HIS LIFE AND WE HAVEN’T SEEN HIM FOR TWO WEEKS. NOW WE GOT SOME FILM OF THIS.

WE’RE HERE AT TUJUNGA PARK AT NIGHT BECAUSE NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN LIKES TO COME OUT AT NIGHT. NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN IS THIS HOMELESS GUY THAT LIVES IN OUR NORTH HOLLYWOOD COMMUNITY WHICH ROUGHLY BOUNDARIES VENTURA BOULEVARD ON THE SOUTH, NORTH CANYON ON THE WEST, VICTORY ON THE NORTH AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT IT IS ON THE EAST. IT’S EITHER LANKERSHIM OR VINELAND.

AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAVE THE TENNIS COURTS HERE AND BEHIND THAT IS THE BASKETBALL COURT. THERE’S A BASEBALL DIAMOND OVER THERE, WAY OVER THERE, THERE’S A COMMUNITY CENTER HERE AND THERE’S A SWIMMING POOL OVER THERE. THE SWIMMING POOL USUALLY HAS LOADS OF KIDS AROUND, BUT THIS IS NIGHT. THERE ARE NO KIDS AROUND. WE ARE LOOKING FOR NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN, BUT HE DOESN’T SEEM TO BE OUT HERE RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS THE NORTH HOLLYWOOD LIBRARY. IT’S UNDER RENOVATION. IT’S A REALLY NICE LIBRARY. IT’S A GOOD KIDS LIBRARY. IT’S REALLY EASY TO GET THE BOOKS IN AND OUT. EVERYBODY IS REALLY NICE, BUT NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN ISN’T HERE.

AMELIA EARHART WAS A LONG-TIME RESIDENT OF NORTH HOLLYWOOD, WHICH ALWAYS SEEMED WEIRD TO ME BECAUSE SHE SEEMED LIKE AN EAST COAST KIND OF CHICK. ANYWAY, THIS IS NOT A STATUTE OF AMELIA EARHART. IT USED TO BE HERE. IT WAS BRONZE, IT WAS TALL, SHE HAD ON THIS AVIATOR SUIT. SHE IS NO LONGER HERE, MUCH LIKE NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN.

AS YOU CAN SEE, ACROSS THE STREET IS THE NORTH HOLLYWOOD CARNIVAL. IT COMES EVERY YEAR, EVERYBODY LOOKS FORWARD TO IT, LOADS OF KIDS, LOADS OF LIGHTS, LOADS OF RIDES. I THINK I’M GOING TO WALK OVER THERE AND SEE IF WE SEE NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN OVER THERE. HE MAY BE OVER THERE. WHO KNOWS?

THIS IS THE NORTH HOLLYWOOD METRO RAIL LINE STATION. AS YOU CAN SEE, WE’RE AT NORTH HOLLYWOOD WHICH IS THE END OF THE LINE, SAN FERNANDO VALLEY, BUT YOU CAN TAKE IT DOWN TO UNIVERSAL CITY, HOLLYWOOD AND VINE, OR HOLLYWOOD AND HIGHLAND IS NEW. IT’S FABULOUS. YOU GOT HOLLYWOOD AND VINE AND YOU CAN TAKE IT ALL THE WAY DOWNTOWN PAST VERMONT AND SUNSET TO UNION STATION. IT WILL ACTUALLY TAKE YOU ALL THE WAY INTO UNION STATION WHERE THE TRAIN IS. IT’S FABULOUS. USUALLY, NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN IS AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE BECAUSE IT’S REALLY NICE HERE. IT’S ALL LIT UP, BUT YET AGAIN, I DON’T SEE HIM. I DON’T SEE HIM NOWHERE. HE’S NOT HERE.

THIS IS CIRCUS LIQUOR AND IT’S BEEN IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT MOVIES. I CAN’T THINK OF ANY RIGHT NOW, BUT ANYWAY, IT’S ON THE CORNER OF BURBANK AND VINELAND. WE THOUGHT FOR SURE WE’D SEE NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN OVER THERE, BUT WE’VE BEEN OVER THERE AND HE’S NOT THERE. HE DOES LIKE THE SAUCE, SO WE THOUGHT WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE OF CATCHING HIM THERE, BUT CIRCUS LIQUOR IS NOT HIS HOME TONIGHT.

THIS IS NORTH HOLLYWOOD HIGH BEHIND ME. IT’S ON THE CORNER OF MAGNOLIA AND COLFAX AND A LOT OF FAMOUS PEOPLE WENT HERE. I DON’T KNOW WHO ANY OF THEM ARE. THEY HAVE A REALLY BAD FOOTBALL TEAM, BUT A REALLY GOOD CROSS-COUNTRY TEAM, AND THEY’VE SENT STUDENTS FOR FIVE YEARS RUNNING NOW TO A NATIONAL SCIENCE POLL. THEY DO VERY WELL THERE, AND NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN ISN’T EVEN HERE RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS THE NORTH HOLLYWOOD THEATER DISTRICT. NOW NOHO STANDS FOR NORTH HOLLYWOOD. NOT NOHOS, PLENTY OF “HOS”. THERE’S ALSO LOTS OF THEATERS AROUND HERE. YOU GOT THE WHITE FIRE, THE RENEGADE AND, BEHIND ME, YOU HAVE THE EL PORTAL. STEVE MARTIN IS CURRENTLY HAVING A PLAY, “PICASSO”, GOOD PLAY, OKAY PRODUCTION. BUT WHAT I DON’T SEE AROUND HERE IS THE NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN. I GUESS HE DOESN’T GO TO THE THEATER. ANYWAY, I’M GOING TO GO.

THIS IS A GREAT NORTH HOLLYWOOD STORE CALLED VAVOOM. GREAT SPOT, GREAT STORE. I DON’T THINK NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN IS GOING TO BE IN HERE, BUT I NEED A TOP ANYWAY.

WELL, WE’VE BEEN ALL OVER THIS CITY LOOKING FOR NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN. CAN’T FIND HIM. JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT YOU CAN NEVER FIND A 55-YEAR-OLD EX-VIETNAM VET, HOMELESS BROTHER, IF HE DON’T WANT YOU TO FIND HIM. I DON’T CARE WHAT GOVERNMENT STATISTICS SAY.

YOU KNOW, I’M NOT GOING IN THERE, SO SHOOT WHATEVER ELSE YOU NEED TO SHOOT.

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) AS THEY SAY, A GOOD MAN IS HARD TO FIND. THE FILM YOU JUST SAW IS PART OF THE VERITAS COLLECTION AT THE SILVER LAKE FILM FESTIVAL. IF YOU’D LIKE TO SEE THIS OR ANY OF THE SNAPSHOTS OF LIFE IN LOS ANGELES, YOU’LL FIND THEM THIS SUNDAY AFTERNOON AT THE FESTIVAL. AND IF YOU’RE INTERESTED IN GETTING MORE INFORMATION, CALL THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN OR GO TO THE FESTIVAL’S WEBSITE AT SILVERLAKEFILMFESTIVAL.COM.

[323-993-7225]

VAL>> I FEEL ANOTHER LEGEND IN THE WORKS, LIKE “BIGFOOT”, ONLY “NORTH HOLLYWOOD MAN”.

OUR PROGRAM, AS YOU KNOW, CAN BE FOUND ON OUR WEBSITE, THE AUDIO AT KCET.ORG AND TRANSCRIPTS AS WELL, SO CHECK IT OUT.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GOOD EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.