9/20/02

LC020920

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> THEY ARE A TYPICAL AMERICAN FAMILY AND, WHEN PEOPLE FIND OUT THEY’RE MUSLIMS, THE REACTION IS TYPICALLY NEGATIVE.

OMAR RICCI>> MY “AMERICANNESS” WAS BEING QUESTIONED. ARE YOU GUYS REALLY AMERICANS? FOR ME, AS HAVING BEEN BORN AND RAISED HERE, MY INITIAL REACTION WAS, WELL, WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION ME? WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME I’M NOT AN AMERICAN? I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE.

VAL>> WAS IT A SIMPLE CASE OF GREED THAT LEFT CALIFORNIANS IN THE DARK LAST YEAR? THE ENERGY CRISIS WAS BLAMED ON SEVERAL THINGS: INFRASTRUCTURE, THE LACK OF NEW POWER PLANTS AND, OF COURSE, DEREGULATION. NOW WE’LL ASK A LOCAL ECONOMIST ABOUT THE LATEST FINDINGS THAT IT WAS ALL A BIG CON BY THE POWER COMPANIES.

JESS>> WE DON’T SEE MUCH OF HIM ANYMORE, BUT WE CAN STILL HEAR HIM.

HUGH HEWITT>> “MORNING GLORY AND EVENING GRACE, AMERICA. FROM SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, I’M HUGH HEWITT, THE VOICE OF REASON IN THE WEST, BRINGING YOU THE RADIO SHOW....”

JESS>> OUR OLD FRIEND, HUGH HEWITT, NOW DISPLAYS HIS SHARP WIT ON A DIFFERENT SORT OF AIRWAVES. A NEW FILM CHRONICLES A DAY IN HIS LIFE AS A NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO TALK SHOW HOST.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA’S MUSLIM COMMUNITY FACED A BIG CHALLENGE AFTER LAST YEAR’S TERRORIST ATTACKS. THEY RALLIED TO SPREAD THE WORD THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN AND HIS FOLLOWERS FOLLOW AN EXTREMIST AGENDA, NOT THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM. BUT NOW LOCAL MUSLIMS ARE STRUGGLING TO RESPOND TO ANOTHER TROUBLING INCIDENT.

VAL>> SIX MUSLIM MEN ACCUSED OF SUPPORTING BIN LADEN’S TERROR NETWORK ARE BEING HELD WITHOUT BAIL IN NEW YORK. ALL SIX ARE U.S. CITIZENS AND ALL ARE DESCRIBED AS WELL-LIKED, RELIGIOUS, DEDICATED AMERICANS. DO THEIR ARRESTS MEAN A NEW WAVE OF SUSPICION AGAINST ALL MUSLIMS? TONIGHT GAY YEE TELLS THE STORY OF ONE MUSLIM FAMILY THAT IS FED UP WITH LIVING UNDER SUSPICION.

GAY YEE>> WHEN OMAR AND LEILA RICCI WERE KIDS GROWING UP IN CALIFORNIA, THEY DIDN’T IDENTIFY STRONGLY AS MUSLIMS. THE SON OF A PAKISTANI MOTHER AND AN ITALIAN-AMERICAN FATHER, OMAR WAS BORN IN NEW YORK AND CAME TO LOS ANGELES AS A YOUNG CHILD. BY THE TIME HE REACHED FAIRFAX HIGH, MOST OF HIS FRIENDS WERE LATINO OR JEWISH.

OMAR RICCI>> ACTUALLY, IN HIGH SCHOOL I WASN’T REALLY AWARE OF MY FAITH OR WHATNOT AND, ACTUALLY, MY JEWISH FRIENDS WERE. SO THEY WOULD ASK ME ABOUT ISLAM AND ABOUT MUSLIMS AND I WAS LIKE COMPLETELY SORT OF DENSE TO ALL OF THAT DISCUSSION BECAUSE I HAD NO IDEA, NOR DID I WANT TO HAVE ANY IDEA, AT THAT POINT.

GAY YEE>> WHEN SHE WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD, LEILA MOVED WITH HER FAMILY TO SACRAMENTO AFTER THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION. SHE STARTED SCHOOL IN THE MIDST OF THE HOSTAGE CRISIS.

LEILA RICCI>> I REMEMBER BEING TEASED AND TAUNTED BY THE CHILDREN AND CLASSMATES WERE TELLING ME, GO HOME, WHY ARE YOU HERE? BRING THE HOSTAGES BACK. I REMEMBER THINKING THAT I’M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED, THIS ISN’T ME, AND WANTING TO REALLY DISASSOCIATE MYSELF FROM BEING IRANIAN, FROM BEING MUSLIM.

GAY YEE>> IT WASN’T UNTIL HE GOT A JOB AT THE ISLAMIC CENTER OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AS A TEENAGER THAT OMAR BEGAN IDENTIFYING STRONGLY AS A MUSLIM. HE AND LEILA MET AT THE CENTER. BY THEN, SHE WAS LIVING IN LOS ANGELES AND SERIOUS ABOUT HER MUSLIM FAITH. THEY MARRIED AND SETTLED IN TO WORKING LIVES, SHE AS A TEACHER AND HE AS A COMPUTER SPECIALIST, AND THEY HAD TWO CHILDREN. THEN CAME SEPTEMBER 11. SUDDENLY, AS WERE MUSLIM-AMERICANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THE RICCIS WERE ON THE DEFENSIVE.

OMAR RICCI>> THESE TERRORISTS NOT ONLY DID PHYSICAL DAMAGE TO THE COUNTRY, BUT THEY DID DAMAGE TO THE AMERICAN-MUSLIM COMMUNITY AS WELL IN MANY WAYS. WHAT WE ARE FORCED TO DO IS REALLY REACT TO WHAT THESE FOLKS HAVE DONE AND YOU’RE DEALING WITH SOMETHING THAT IS COMPLETELY OUT OF YOUR CONTROL.

LEILA RICCI>> IT’S VERY HARD BEING AN AMERICAN-MUSLIM. THERE ARE A LOT OF CHALLENGES WE’RE FACING. EVERY TIME YOU TURN AROUND, THERE’S SOMETHING THAT’S HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE EAST OR HAPPENING ON OUR OWN LAND WHERE PEOPLE ARE USING ISLAM AND JUSTIFYING THESE ACTIONS THAT ARE VERY CONTRADICTORY TO WHAT ISLAM ACTUALLY IS.

GAY YEE>> IT HASN’T HELPED THAT AMERICAN-BORN MUSLIMS IN NEW YORK ARE NOW CHARGED WITH BEING TIED TO AL QAEDA. THE RICCIS EXPECT ANOTHER ROUND OF QUESTIONS AND THEY’RE RELIEVED ONLY BY THE FACT THAT IT WAS MEMBERS OF THE AMERICAN-MUSLIM COMMUNITY WHO BECAME SUSPICIOUS ABOUT THE TERRORIST SUSPECTS AND ALERTED AUTHORITIES. AS A LOCAL LEADER OF THE MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL, OMAR HAS SPENT THE PAST YEAR DEFENDING AND EXPLAINING HIS COMMUNITY. AND IN THE DAYS FOLLOWING 9/11, HIS OWN LOYALTY WAS CHALLENGED.

OMAR RICCI>> MY “AMERICANNESS” WAS BEING QUESTIONED. ARE YOU GUYS REALLY AMERICANS? FOR ME, AS HAVING BEEN BORN AND RAISED HERE, MY INITIAL REACTION WAS, WELL, WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION ME? WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME I’M NOT AN AMERICAN? I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE. THIS IS MY COUNTRY. I MEAN, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO SEND ME BACK TO WHEREVER. THEN, I THINK AS THE YEAR WORE ON, I STARTED TO REALLY TELL MYSELF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THIS IS THE REALITY AND YOU CAN’T FIGHT IT. THERE’S A GENUINE CONCERN IN THE COUNTRY AS TO WHO AMERICAN-MUSLIMS ARE AND WHAT SIDE OF THE FENCE ARE THEY ON.

GAY YEE>> THE RICCIS SAY THAT NEITHER THEY NOR THEIR FRIENDS HAVE BEEN SPECIFICALLY TARGETED AND THEY ATTRIBUTE THAT TO THE DIVERSITY OF LOS ANGELES. BUT THEY DID TRY TO MAKE SURE ALL THEIR NEIGHBORS FELT COMFORTABLE WITH THEM AFTER SEPTEMBER 11.

LEILA RICCI>> WE INVITED OUR NEIGHBORS OVER AND WE SAID TO THEM THAT WE ARE MUSLIMS AND WE LIVE IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND WE KNOW THAT THERE’S A LOT OF ANXIETY AFTER SEPTEMBER 11 AND WE’D LIKE TO HAVE YOU OVER AND TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND FOR YOU TO GET TO KNOW US. WE FELT THAT THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO SAY THAT WE’RE JUST LIKE YOU AND, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ISLAM OR ABOUT MUSLIMS, WE’RE HERE TO ANSWER THEM AND WE WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11 DOES NOT REPRESENT ISLAM.

GAY YEE>> THE RICCIS ARE NOW EXPECTING A THIRD CHILD AND, AS THEY LOOK TO THE FUTURE, THEY WANT THEIR KIDS TO GROW UP FEELING CONFIDENT, BOTH AS AMERICANS AND AS MUSLIMS.

LEILA RICCI>> I HOPE THAT THAT WILL BE A MUCH MORE NATURAL THING FOR THEM THAN IT WAS FOR ME. FOR ME, IT WAS VERY HARD BECAUSE I REALLY HAD TO GRAPPLE WITH THOSE IDENTITIES AND I FELT THAT, IN ORDER TO BE AMERICAN, YOU HAD TO GIVE UP YOUR FAITH. IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO LEARN THAT YOU DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT. YOU COULD BE AMERICAN, YOU COULD BE MUSLIM AND THOSE TWO THINGS ARE NOT CONTRADICTORY, THAT THEY GO TOGETHER VERY WELL.

JESS>> THE SIX MEN IN NEW YORK WITH LINKS TO TERRORISTS ARE ACCUSED OF GIVING MATERIAL SUPPORT TO AL QAEDA. PROSECUTORS SAY THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY PERSONALLY PLANNED TO COMMIT TERRORIST ATTACKS AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

VAL>> MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, CALIFORNIA’S PUBLIC SCHOOLS TEND TO FAVOR COLLEGE PREP COURSES OVER VOCATIONAL PROGRAMS, BUT HIGHER EDUCATION MAY NOT MEAN HIGHER PAY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MANY OF THE STUDENTS SAY THEY BOUNCED AROUND IN LOW-PAYING JOBS AFTER HIGH SCHOOL, HAVING NO IDEA THAT VOCATIONAL EDUCATION COULD PAY OFF FOR THEM.

>> RIGHT OUT OF THE SCHOOL, I’M LOOKING AT BETWEEN $30,000 AND $50,000. AFTER THAT, IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHICH DIRECTION YOU GO WITH IT.

JESS>> REMEMBER THE ENERGY CRISIS? CALIFORNIA SUFFERED STATEWIDE BLACKOUTS OR BROWNOUTS THIRTY-TWO TIMES EARLY LAST YEAR. NOW A NEW REPORT FROM STATE INVESTIGATORS LINKS THE POWER FAILURE TO, YOU GUESSED IT, THE ENERGY COMPANIES.

VAL>> STATE INVESTIGATORS DON’T COME RIGHT OUT AND ACCUSE THE COMPANIES OF DELIBERATELY WITHHOLDING POWER, BUT THEY DO SAY THE COMPANIES WEREN’T GENERATING AS MUCH POWER AS THEY COULD HAVE, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES OF CRISIS. WELL, UC IRVINE ECONOMIST, PETER NAVARRO, JOINS US WITH HIS TAKE ON THE ENERGY CRISIS ONE YEAR LATER. HAS IT BEEN A YEAR? WOW.

PETER NAVARRO>> INDEED IT HAS, AND I’LL ACCUSE THEM RIGHT OUT. THEY DID WITHHOLD POWER AND THEY DID KEEP OUR LIGHTS OFF. THERE’S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND ABOUT THAT.

JESS>> SINCE YOU WERE TELLING THIS TO US A YEAR AGO, WE EXPECT YOU TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO.

PETER NAVARRO>> WELL, I WON’T DO THAT, BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THE MOST INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS AND THE REASON WHY THIS REPORT IS NOT JUST ECONOMIC BUT POLITICAL IS THAT IT FURTHER STRENGTHENS OUR CASE BEFORE THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION FOR THE REFUNDS OF ABOUT $10 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH WE’RE TRYING TO GET. THAT WOULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN OUR BUDGET DEFICIT HERE IN THE STATE.

VAL>> NOW BACK UP JUST A BIT. THE REPORT COMES FROM THE --

JESS>> -- PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION.

PETER NAVARRO>> YES.

VAL>> PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, AND WHAT EXACTLY DID THEY SAY AND YET NOT QUITE SAY?

PETER NAVARRO>> OKAY, WHEN WE HAD OUR ENERGY CRISIS WAY BACK WHEN AND THE LIGHTS WERE GOING OFF, BASICALLY WHAT THE GENERATING COMPANIES WERE DOING WAS THAT THEY WERE SHUTTING THEIR PLANTS ON THE GROUNDS OF SO-CALLED FORCED OUTAGES OR REPAIRS. WE KNOW AND WE KNEW AT THE TIME THAT THE AMOUNT OF CAPACITY GOING OFFLINE WAS SO MUCH HIGHER THAN HISTORICALLY, BUT THEY HAD TO BE DOING IT ON PURPOSE BASICALLY TO TIGHTEN UP THE GRID TO PUSH PRICES UP.

JESS>> NOW THE PUC DOESN’T CLAIM THEY DID IT DELIBERATELY.

PETER NAVARRO>> I THINK THAT’S THE CLEAR IMPLICATION, JESS. THERE’S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND. I SAW A LITTLE CLIP OF LORETTA LYNCH, THE PUC CHAIRWOMAN, TALKING ABOUT IT. IT’S VERY CLEAR WHAT THEY DID. IN FACT, WILLIAMS COMPANY WHICH CONTROLLED THE AES PLANT IN HUNTINGTON BEACH, WAS THE ONE THAT ACTUALLY PLED GUILTY TO DOING IT AND THAT WAS THE CHRISTMAS EVE WHEN WE HAD A BLACKOUT AND WE HAD THE GOVERNOR EXHORTING US NOT TO TURN OUR LIGHTS ON. THAT WAS ALL A SHAM. I MEAN, THERE WAS PLENTY OF POWER, BUT THESE PEOPLE WERE MANIPULATING THE SITUATION.

WHAT’S INTERESTING TO ME FROM THE GOVERNOR’S POINT OF VIEW IS THAT, AT THE TIME THIS WAS HAPPENING, I AND OTHERS WERE SAYING WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAD TO DO WAS GO IN AND THREATEN TO SEIZE THOSE PLANTS AND SEIZE THEM PRECISELY BECAUSE THESE GENERATORS WEREN’T USING THOSE PLANTS TO PRODUCE POWER FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. HE DIDN’T DO THAT AT THE TIME AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HELPED CREATE THAT CRISIS.

JESS>> OTHER THAN PERHAPS GETTING OUR $10 MILLION DOLLARS BACK, IS THERE ANY PUNITIVE ACTION WE CAN EXPECT TO BE TAKING AGAINST THESE COMPANIES?

PETER NAVARRO>> WELL, IT’S $10 BILLION. LET’S MAKE SURE WE PUT THAT “B” IN FRONT OF IT (LAUGHTER). IN THE CASE BEFORE THE FERC, WE’VE GOT STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL LOCKYER TRYING TO GO TO ALTERNATIVE COURTS TO MAKE SIMILAR KINDS OF CLAIMS, THEN WE’VE GOT A THIRD SET OF CLASS ACTION SUITS. SO I THINK THAT WHAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR MOSTLY IS MONEY. IT’S GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO PROVE CRIMINAL INTENT AND THAT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO PUT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE BEHIND BARS, BUT WHO KNOWS?

VAL>> ALSO, DON’T THE ENERGY COMPANIES SAY, YES, BUT AT THE TIMES OF THE BLACKOUTS WHEN SOME OF THE PLANTS WERE OFFLINE FOR REPAIRS, THAT THE STATE ORGANIZATION -- I FORGET THE NAME OF IT -- WAS ACTUALLY THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE POWER GRID?

PETER NAVARRO>> WELL, LET ME PLAY THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE AND JUST SIMPLY SAY WHAT THEY WOULD SAY. THEY’D SAY THAT WE WERE RUNNING THOSE PLANTS SO HARD THAT WE HAD TO PUT THEM DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE AND IT WAS A CALIFORNIA INDEPENDENT SYSTEM OPERATOR. BUT I MEAN, LOOK, IF YOU LOOK AT THE -- THE RELEVANT STATISTICS HERE IS YOU LOOK AT THE LEVEL OF ROUTINE MAINTENANCE AND FORCED OUTAGE BEFORE THE GENERATORS BOUGHT THE PLANTS FROM THE UTILITIES. YOU LOOK AT THOSE STATISTICS AFTERWARDS AND IT’S NIGHT AND DAY.

VAL>> SO, IN OTHER WORDS, THE AMOUNT OF DOWNTIME FOR REPAIRS WENT WAY UP.

PETER NAVARRO>> HUGE, HUGE, WAY OUTSIDE OF ANY KIND OF PARAMETERS THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT AND IT WAS SO TIMELY. SEE, THAT’S THE THING. THE OUTAGES WERE SO TIMELY IN PUSHING THE PRICE UP THAT I THINK THERE’S NO QUESTION OR DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE CONSCIOUSLY MANIPULATING THE POWER GRID TO OUR DETRIMENT. YOU KNOW, THE OTHER ASPECT OF IT IS THERE WAS A GREAT STORY IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO THAT SHOWED HOW POWER WAS MOVED FROM HERE TO NEVADA AND TO OREGON AND BACK TO HERE. THAT WAS ALL THE OTHER PART -- THAT WAS THE WAY THAT THEY ACTUALLY GOT THE PRICE UP AFTER THEY TIGHTENED SUPPLY. I MEAN, THERE WERE SEVERAL THINGS GOING ON THERE.

JESS>> THEY ALSO COMPLAINED THAT WE HAD BEEN NEGLIGENT IN BUILDING NEW POWER PLANTS AND NOW SOME OF THE NEW POWER PLANTS THAT SUPPOSEDLY HAD BEEN PLANNED ARE OFF THE DRAWING BOARD.

PETER NAVARRO>> THAT’S A GOOD POINT, JESS. YOU KNOW, HERE’S WHAT MY CONCERN IS. IT LOOKED LIKE -- AND WE SHOULD KNOW THAT AT THE TIME THE REASON WHY THE GENERATORS WERE PUSHING CAPACITY OFFLINE WAS NOT JUST TO PUSH UP PRICE. IT WAS TO PUSH UP PRICE TO EARN MONEY, BUT IT WAS ALSO TO PUSH UP PRICE TO PRESSURE THE GOVERNOR INTO SIGNING LONG-TERM CONTRACTS BECAUSE THE GENERATORS, OF ALL PEOPLE, KNEW THAT SOON THERE WOULD BE A GLUT OF POWER ON THE MARKET. AND, YES, NOW THE ELECTRICITY MARKET HAS COLLAPSED AND PRICES ARE SOFT.

IN MY VIEW SIX OR EIGHT MONTHS AGO WAS THAT WE NOW HAD AN INTERLUDE WHERE WE WOULDN’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE LIGHTS GOING OUT OF MAYBE SEVEN TO TEN YEARS BECAUSE OF ALL THESE POWER PLANTS THAT WERE PLANNED. BUT NOW, WITH THE FINANCIAL PROBLEMS OF CALPINE, DYNERGY, RELIANT, ENRON, ALL OF THEM NOW IN FINANCIAL TROUBLE, THEY’RE CUTTING POWER PLANT CONSTRUCTION. A LOT OF THINGS THAT WERE ON THE BOOKS ARE NOW OFF THE BOOKS AND I THINK WE’RE LOOKING AT PROBLEMS AGAIN WITHIN MAYBE TWO OR THREE TO FIVE YEARS. WE HAVEN’T SOLVED THIS PROBLEM.

VAL>> BUT WE’RE ALSO LOCKED INTO HIGHER-PRICED LONG-TERM CONTRACTS.

PETER NAVARRO>> AND WE ARE LOCKED INTO LONG-TERM CONTRACTS WHICH WE’RE PAYING FOR POWER RIGHT NOW PROBABLY TWICE THE MARKET RATE. IT’S --

JESS>> -- ON THE UPSIDE, WE --

PETER NAVARRO>> -- WE’RE GETTING IT EVERYWHERE. THERE IS NO UPSIDE, JESS (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> YEAH, THERE IS. WE’VE LEARNED TO CONSERVE A BIT.

VAL>> YEAH, WE HAVE.

JESS>> AND ALSO WE’VE PUT A LITTLE MORE EMPHASIS ON ALTERNATIVE SOURCES OF POWER. DOES THAT REALLY MATTER THAT MUCH?

PETER NAVARRO>> IT DOES, AND THERE’S A BILL THAT THE GOVERNOR JUST SIGNED WHICH, IN PRINCIPLE, WAS A GOOD BILL BEFORE THEY STARTED REALLY MESSING WITH IT. LET ME TELL YOU WHAT IT DID. IT’S CALLED A RENEWABLE PORTFOLIO STANDARD. IT’S SOMETHING THAT THEY WANT TO DO AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. CALIFORNIA DID IT FIRST. IT BASICALLY MANDATES THAT TWENTY PERCENT OF OUR ELECTRICITY GENERATION IN THE STATE COMES FROM ALTERNATIVE SOURCES. WE’RE NOW, I THINK, AT AROUND SEVEN OR EIGHT AND WE’RE SUPPOSED TO GO UP A PERCENT A YEAR FOR THE NEXT EIGHT OR NINE YEARS UNTIL WE HIT THAT.

NOW THE WAY THAT’S BEING FUNDED IS THEY’RE TAKING TWO BUCKS A MONTH PER HOUSEHOLD FROM US AS RATEPAYERS, PUTTING IT INTO A SLUSH FUND, WHICH IS FINE, AND THEN USING THAT AS A SUBSIDY FOR PEOPLE WHO WILL BUILD ALTERNATIVE SUPPLY. ALL WELL AND GOOD TO THAT POINT BECAUSE THE SUBSIDY CAN BE JUSTIFIED BY DIVERSITY OF ELECTRICITY SUPPLY, CLEANER AIR AND ALL THAT. THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THE BILL IS THAT THEY’VE PUT A RIDER IN THERE TO PAY WHAT’S CALLED PREVAILING WAGE ON ALL OF THE NEW POWER PLANT CONSTRUCTION IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE SUBSIDY.

WHAT PREVAILING WAGE MEANS, IT’S BASICALLY UNION WAGE. IT WAS A DEAL THAT DAVIS CUT WITH THE LABOR UNIONS. IT MEANS THAT, IF YOU GO OUT AND BUILD ONE OF THESE RENEWABLE PLANTS IN BAKERSFIELD UP THAT WAY WHERE WAGES ARE PRETTY LOW, YOU HAVE TO PAY LOS ANGELES OR SAN DIEGO WAGES BECAUSE THAT’S THE PREVAILING WAGE IN THE STATE. WHAT IT DOES MEAN FOR YOU AND ME IS THAT THOSE RENEWABLE GENERATING SOURCES WILL PROBABLY COST FIFTEEN, TWENTY, THIRTY PERCENT MORE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY PUT IN THAT BILL. I WISH I HAD GOOD NEWS FOR YOU. RIGHT NOW, I’M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, SO THEY’RE GOING TO COST A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT THEY ARE RENEWABLE SOURCES NOW.

PETER NAVARRO>> YEAH, THEY’LL COST A LOT MORE, BUT IT WILL BE A GOOD THING.

VAL>> PETER NAVARRO, ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU, FROM UC IRVINE. THANKS SO MUCH.

PETER NAVARRO>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

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JESS>> WE HAVEN’T SEEN MUCH OF HUGH HEWITT AROUND HERE LATELY, BUT WE’VE HEARD HIM. YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT HE LEFT LIFE AND TIMES TO PURSUE AN OPPORTUNITY AS A RADIO TALK SHOW HOST.

VAL>> HUGH’S SHOW IS NOW NATIONALLY SYNDICATED AND WE CAN SEE HOW HE’S DOING, THANKS TO A SHORT MOVIE WHICH IS PART OF THE SILVER LAKE FILM FESTIVAL. THE MOVIE IS CALLED “THE LIST”.

[FILM CLIP]

HUGH HEWITT>> “MORNING GLORY AND EVENING GRACE, AMERICA. FROM SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, I’M HUGH HEWITT, THE VOICE OF REASON IN THE WEST, BRINGING YOU THE RADIO SHOW THAT YOUR BOSS LISTENS TO, SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE INVOLVED AS WELL, AND IT’S A SPECIAL DAY HERE AT THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW. CINEMA VERITAS DAY. WE ARE MAKING A MOVIE IN THE STUDIO WITH MY COLLEAGUE WHO IS THE CRITIC OF EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON IN THE WORLD OF MEDIA. THAT WOULD BE EMMETT OF THE UNBLINKING EYE, WITH FILMMAKER EXTRAORDINAIRE MARK DECEW ON BEHALF OF THE SILVER LAKE FILM FESTIVAL.

MARK DECEW>> YOU GOT TO GET THE NAME RIGHT. IT’S MARK IN MID-WILSHIRE.

HUGH HEWITT>> MARK IN MID-WILSHIRE. YOU KNOW HIM AS MARK IN MID-WILSHIRE.

MARK DECEW>> NOT ANYMORE.

HUGH HEWITT>> GENERALISSIMO IS STARRING IN THIS. ALEX, THE OCCASIONAL INTERN, IS DOING THIS, HIS OTHER DUTIES ASIDE. ADAM YOUNGMAN PROVIDING TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE. ANTHONY ANCHOA PROVIDING SOUND AND ME, YOUR HOST, HUGH HEWITT. AND NOW THE REASON THIS MOVIE IS BEING MADE.

MARK DECEW>> YOU FORGOT.

HUGH HEWITT>> HERE’S THE CRITIC WHO MADE IT ALL POSSIBLE, THE MAN WHO KNOWS ALL, SEES ALL AND LIKES NOTHING WHATSOEVER. THAT WOULD BE EMMETT OF THE UNBLINKING EYE, OUR FILM CRITIC EXTRAORDINAIRE. NOW AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS DO A LIST ON THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW, BUT WE DON’T DO IT AT THE STOP OF THE SHOW. BUT SINCE WE SHAMELESSLY WANT TO BE IN THE MOVIE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, WE’RE GOING TO CUT TO THE LIST, FORGET THE TRAILERS THAT WE NORMALLY DO, EXCEPT FOR A QUICK REVIEW OF A MOVIE THAT YOU POSITIVELY HATED.

MARK DECEW>> YES. “AUSTIN POWERS IN GOLDMEMBER”.

HUGH HEWITT>> OKAY, LET’S GET TO THE LIST. NOW HERE ARE THE RULES.

MARK DECEW>> WHAT RULES? WHAT RULES? WHY START NOW?

HUGH HEWITT>> I GOT TO EXPLAIN WHAT THEY’RE CALLED --

MARK DECEW>> -- THERE ARE NO RULES IN A KNIFE FIGHT.

HUGH HEWITT>> THE LIST THIS WEEK ARE THE TEN BEST DOCUMENTARIES MADE EVER. 1-800-520-1234. NUMBER TEN OF THE ALL-TIME BEST DOCUMENTARIES IS?

MARK DECEW>> A PERSONAL PREFERENCE, “BEYOND THE MAT”. 1999. YOU DIDN’T SEE THIS, DID YOU?

HUGH HEWITT>> NO.

MARK DECEW>> THIS IS A DOCUMENTARY OF A BEHIND-THE-SCENES LOOK AT THREE PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS.

HUGH HEWITT>> OH, PROFESSIONAL! THEY’RE GETTING PAID FOR PRODUCT PLACEMENT!

MARK DECEW>> MICK FOLEY, UH, I’M GOING TO FORGET.

HUGH HEWITT>> (LAUGHTER) YOU’RE FREEZING UP.

MARK DECEW>> MICK FOLEY, TERRY FUNK AND JAKE “THE SNAKE” ROBERTS.

HUGH HEWITT>> YOU’RE FREEZING UP.

MARK DECEW>> OH, THIS IS A CLASSY PIECE OF WORK.

HUGH HEWITT>> IS JAKE “THE SNAKE” DEAD? IS HE THE ONE THAT DIED?

MARK DECEW>> NO, HE’S NOT DEAD. “BEYOND THE MAT”.

HUGH HEWITT>> DID THAT WIN ANY AWARDS?

MARK DECEW>> NO. THERE’S ONLY TWO ON THIS LIST THAT WON AN ACADEMY AWARD.

HUGH HEWITT>> THEN IT’S GOING TO BE PRETTY GOOD. WOULD ANYONE ENJOY WATCHING “BEYOND THE MAT”?

MARK DECEW>> I THINK ANYONE.

HUGH HEWITT>> NUMBER NINE?

MARK DECEW>> NUMBER NINE, THE OBLIGATORY ATOMIC WEAPON MOVIE, “TRINITY AND BEYOND”, THE ATOMIC BOMB MOVIE. THIS IS ACTUALLY A FAIRLY NON-POLEMIC LOOK AT THE DEVELOPMENT OF ATOMIC WEAPONS. IT’S A PRETTY GOOD MOVIE.

HUGH HEWITT>> OH, COME ON. THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS A NON-POLEMIC LOOK.

MARK DECEW>> WELL, HAVE YOU SEEN THIS?

HUGH HEWITT>> YEAH, BUT IT’S GOT TO BE --

MARK DECEW>> -- YOU HAVEN’T SEEN THIS? NUMBER EIGHT, FROM 1929, “THE MAN WITH THE MOVIE CAMERA”.

HUGH HEWITT>> THAT WOULD BE --

MARK DECEW>> -- THAT WOULD BE YOU.

HUGH HEWITT>> -- ME.

MARK DECEW>> AND THAT’S BASICALLY WHAT IT WAS. “THE MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA” IS ABOUT A DAY IN THE LIFE OF THE SOVIET UNION IN 1929.

HUGH HEWITT>> WELL, HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED?

MARK DECEW>> NOBODY DIED.

HUGH HEWITT>> A DAY IN THE LIFE OF THE SOVIET UNION, A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE DIED IN 1927.

MARK DECEW>> YOU ARE WATCHING THE MAKING OF A FILM, WATCHING THE CAMERAMAN MAKE THE FILM, FILMING THE DOCUMENTARY AND WATCHING THE PEOPLE WATCH THE FILM. NUMBER SEVEN FROM 1994, “HOOP DREAMS”.

HUGH HEWITT>> I HAVE SEEN THIS.

MARK DECEW>> WELL, SEE?

HUGH HEWITT>> KID BLOWS OUT HIS KNEE, DOES NOT GO TO THE NBA, DON’T BET YOUR WHOLE FUTURE ON PLAYING ROUND BALL.

MARK DECEW>> YEAH, YOU DON’T BET ON BASKETBALL.

HUGH HEWITT>> DON’T BET ON BASKETBALL.

MARK DECEW>> IT’S A FINE, FINE DOCUMENTARY, VERY GOOD MOVIE.

HUGH HEWITT>> NUMBER SIX?

MARK DECEW>> NUMBER SIX FROM 1996, A MOVIE THAT ACTUALLY WON THE ACADEMY AWARD FOR BEST DOCUMENTARY, “WHEN WE WERE KING”, THE MUHAMMAD ALI-GEORGE FOREMAN FIGHT. THIS IS THE FIRST ONE. IT WAS GREAT --

HUGH HEWITT>> -- NOW WAIT, THIS WAS NOT THE THRILLER IN MANILA. THIS WAS IN ZAIRE, ROPE-A-DOPE.

MARK DECEW>> NUMBER FIVE, FROM 1970, “WOODSTOCK”.

HUGH HEWITT>> WELL, THAT HAD TO BE ON THE LIST.

MARK DECEW>> IT DIDN’T HAVE TO BE ON THE LIST.

HUGH HEWITT>> YES, IT DID BECAUSE IT’S THE ONLY ONE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY PAID TO SEE.

MARK DECEW>> NO. SEE, THE PROBLEM WITH DOCUMENTARIES, THERE ARE A LOT OF ROCK AND ROLL DOCUMENTARIES, BUT THIS IS THE ONLY ROCK AND ROLL DOCUMENTARY THAT ACTUALLY GOES INTO A SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION THAT YOU’RE INTERESTED IN SEEING. IT’S HISTORICAL.

HUGH HEWITT>> YOU’RE OVERLOOKING “SPINAL TAP”.

MARK DECEW>> NO, I’M NOT OVERLOOKING IT. I’M IGNORING IT.

HUGH HEWITT>> NUMBER FOUR?

MARK DECEW>> NUMBER FOUR, FROM 1995, “SHOAH”.

HUGH HEWITT>> WELL, THAT’S A WONDERFUL DOWNER.

MARK DECEW>> IT’S NOT A HAPPY MOVIE. IT IS ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST. IT IS 556 MINUTES LONG. IT’S A BIT OVERDONE, BUT THERE ARE NO GRISLY SCENES. IT’S ALL --

HUGH HEWITT>> -- BUT AGAIN, UP UNTIL NOW, WITH THREE LEFT --

MARK DECEW>> -- CAN I FINISH A SENTENCE WITHOUT YOU BUTTING IN?

HUGH HEWITT>> ONLY “WOODSTOCK” PEOPLE WOULD PAY FOR IT.

MARK DECEW>> NO, THAT’S NOT TRUE. ANY ONE OF THESE MOVIES IS WORTH A LOOK.

HUGH HEWITT>> NUMBER THREE?

MARK DECEW>> NUMBER THREE, FROM 1988, “THE THIN BLUE LINE”, AN ERROL MORRIS MOVIE.

HUGH HEWITT>> WHO’S THAT?

MARK DECEW>> ERROL MORRIS IS A DOCUMENTARIAN. HE’S PROBABLY THE BEST-KNOWN AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIAN, IF THAT’S A WORD, AND IT IS NOW.

HUGH HEWITT>> SURE. DOES HE LIVE IN LOS ANGELES?

MARK DECEW>> “THE THIN BLUE LINE” IS ABOUT A POLICE INVESTIGATION, OR RE-INVESTIGATION OF A MURDER, OF A POLICE OFFICER THAT TOOK PLACE IN DALLAS, TEXAS.

HUGH HEWITT>> AND NOW NUMBER TWO?

MARK DECEW>> NUMBER TWO, FROM 1934, “TRIUMPH OF THE WILL”.

HUGH HEWITT>> WELL, THAT’S, ALTHOUGH RACIST, QUITE WELL DONE.

MARK DECEW>> QUITE RACIST, BUT IF YOU WANT TO GET A FEELING FOR --

HUGH HEWITT>> -- RACISTS?

MARK DECEW>> NO, FOR NAZI GERMANY. WHY HITLER CAME TO POWER. THIS IS THE MOVIE TO SEE. PROBABLY THE GREATEST PIECE OF PROPAGANDA EVER MADE.

HUGH HEWITT>> IT’S RIEFENSTAHL, RIGHT?

MARK DECEW>> LENI RIEFENSTAHL.

HUGH HEWITT>> RIGHT, AND I CAN ACTUALLY SAY THAT. SHE IS STILL ALIVE, IS SHE NOT?

MARK DECEW>> I BELIEVE SO.

HUGH HEWITT>> I BELIEVE THAT SHE IS AND THEY JUST FETED HER IN HOLLYWOOD. CAN WE HAVE THE DRUM ROLL, PLEASE? NOW THAT PART OF THE SHOW THAT EVERYONE LOVES AND WAITS FOR, THE VERY BEST DOCUMENTARY EVER MADE ACCORDING TO EMMETT OF THE UNBLINKING EYE, IS?

MARK DECEW>> IN 1978, “GATES OF HEAVEN”, ANOTHER ERROL MORRIS MOVIE.

HUGH HEWITT>> NEVER HEARD OF IT.

MARK DECEW>> IT’S ABOUT PET CEMETERIES IN CALIFORNIA. IT’S SORT OF ABOUT THAT, BUT IT’S ABOUT SO MUCH MORE. PET CEMETERIES, THE PEOPLE WHO PUT THEIR PETS IN PET CEMETERIES, THE EMOTION OF PET OWNERS, THE BOND --

HUGH HEWITT>> -- THIS IS THE GREATEST DOCUMENTARY EVERY MADE?

MARK DECEW>> IN MY VIEW, YEAHSA, YESSIR.

HUGH HEWITT>> (LAUGHTER)

MARK DECEW>> I DON’T NEED TO BE MOCKED. I CAN BE MOCKED BY A BETTER CLASS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE.

JESS>> THE FILM YOU JUST SAW IS PART OF THE VERITAS COLLECTION AT THE SILVER LAKE FILM FESTIVAL. IF YOU’RE INTERESTED IN GETTING MORE INFORMATION, CALL THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN OR GO TO THE FESTIVAL’S WEBSITE AT SILVERLAKEFILMFESTIVAL.COM.

[323-993-7225]

VAL>> OH, IT’S ALL DOWNHILL AFTER KCET (LAUGHTER). THAT’S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT. FOR UPCOMING STORIES AND INTERVIEWS, CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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