9/23/02

LC020923

VAL ZAVALA>>ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> GETTING A COLLEGE EDUCATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN HARD WORK, BUT NO ONE EVER SAID YOU HAD TO GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY.

PHILIP BRUCE>>PHILIP BRUCE>> MANY OF THE STUDENTS SAY THEY BOUNCED AROUND IN LOW-PAYING JOBS AFTER HIGH SCHOOL HAVING NO IDEA THAT VOCATIONAL EDUCATION COULD PAY OFF FOR THEM.

JIM QUASS-BERRYMAN>> RIGHT OUT OF THE SCHOOL, I'M LOOKING AT BETWEEN $30,000 AND $50,000. AFTER THAT, IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHICH DIRECTION YOU GO WITH IT.

VAL>> SHE’S A NOBEL PRIZE WINNER WHO DREAMS OF RIDDING THE WORLD OF A DEADLY MENACE: LANDMINES. TONIGHT WE’LL FIND OUT HOW JODY WILLIAMS PLANS TO TURN THAT DREAM INTO A REALITY AND WE’LL SEE WHICH PLACES ARE AT GREATEST RISK FROM THESE DEVICES DESIGNED TO MAIM OR KILL EVERYTHING WITHIN REACH.

JESS>> THEY’RE A GREAT CONVENIENCE AND MILLIONS OF US DEPEND ON THEM EVERY DAY, BUT TONIGHT WE’LL TAKE A DIFFERENT LOOK AT CELL PHONES AND FIND OUT HOW THIS LITTLE PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY HAS BECOME A BIG NEW TOOL FOR DETECTIVES.

VAL>> THESE STORIES AND MORE STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES ARE GREAT AT TURNING OUT LAWYERS AND CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS, BUT HOW OFTEN HAVE YOU TRIED TO FIND A GOOD MECHANIC TO WORK ON YOUR CAR OR A RELIABLE PLUMBER WHO CAN FIX YOUR PIPES? THAT’S THE WHOLE IDEA BEHIND THE SHIFTING FOCUS AT MANY CALIFORNIA SCHOOLS.

VAL>> THEY’RE GOING FROM NO-TECH TO VO-TECH BY OFFERING VOCATIONAL TRAINING FOR STUDENTS WHO WANT DIFFERENT KINDS OF CAREERS. AND AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, IT’S PAYING OFF IN WAYS THAT A TYPICAL COLLEGE EDUCATION SOMETIMES DOESN’T.

PHILIP BRUCE>> SOME STUDENTS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO WHEN THEY LEAVE SCHOOL, BUT THESE COMMUNITY COLLEGE STUDENTS IN CERRITOS NOT ONLY HAVE IDEAS, THEY'RE LEARNING SOME SKILLS TO BUILD A FUTURE.

BRUCE JOHNSON>> VIRTUALLY EVERY INDUSTRY OUT THERE HAS OR NEEDS WELDERS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BRUCE JOHNSON RUNS THE WELDING TECHNOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT CERRITOS COLLEGE.

BRUCE JOHNSON>> ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF OUR COMPLETING STUDENTS ARE PLACED IN JOBS. I HAVE MORE JOBS AVAILABLE THAN I HAVE STUDENTS TO TAKE THEM RIGHT NOW. THE WAGES CAN RANGE ANYWHERE FROM $8 TO $10 AN HOUR TO AS MUCH AS $35 TO $50 AN HOUR AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN, SO THE MONEY IS VERY, VERY GOOD. THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE EXCELLENT IN ALL AREAS ACROSS THE SPECTRUM OF INDUSTRY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE PAY IS THE DRAW FOR LEONARD ALVAREZ.

LEONARD ALVAREZ>> WELL, I'M HOPING I'LL BE MAKING SOME GOOD MONEY SO I CAN BUY ME MY BOAT AND MY TRUCK. (LAUGHTER)

PHILIP BRUCE>> THIS IS A PROGRAM WHERE ALL THE STUDENTS DON'T FIT THE TYPICAL PROFILE. JIM QUASS-BERRYMAN IS THIRTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD. HE'S LOOKING FOR A WAY OUT OF DRIVING A GASOLINE TRUCK.

JIM QUASS-BERRYMAN>> RIGHT OUT OF THE SCHOOL, I'M LOOKING AT BETWEEN $30,000 AND $50,000. AFTER THAT, IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHICH DIRECTION YOU GO WITH IT. IF YOU ADD INSPECTION TO IT, YOU COULD EASILY MAKE $100,000 A YEAR OR SO.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE SCHOOL SAYS THE STUDENT BODY IS OLDER BECAUSE IT SOMETIMES TAKES PEOPLE A WHILE TO REALIZE THAT VOCATIONAL EDUCATION CAN BE VALUABLE.
BRUCE JOHNSON>> WE WOULD LOVE TO GET THEM HERE SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD RIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL. IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD. WE'RE HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME RECRUITING THEM AT THAT POINT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MANY OF THE STUDENTS SAY THEY BOUNCED AROUND IN LOW-PAYING JOBS AFTER HIGH SCHOOL HAVING NO IDEA THAT VOCATIONAL EDUCATION COULD PAY OFF FOR THEM.

JIM QUASS-BERRYMAN>> I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A LOT MORE VOCATION AND, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON, TO GIVE PEOPLE SOME IDEA OF WHAT THEY WOULD WANT TO DO IN A TRADE IF COLLEGE ISN'T AN OPTION FOR THEM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> NICK KREMER OVERSEES INDUSTRY AND TECHNOLOGY EDUCATION AT CERRITOS AND HE'S BEEN DISTRESSED BY THE DECLINE OF VOCATIONAL EDUCATION IN THE HIGH SCHOOLS.

NICK KREMER>> SCHOOLS, PRINCIPALS, SUPERINTENDENTS, BOARDS, ARE ALL UNDER PRESSURE TO PRODUCE TEST SCORES AND PRODUCE STUDENTS READY TO GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA. THEIR RESPONSE, WHICH IS A RATIONAL RESPONSE, HAS BEEN LET'S CLOSE DOWN VOCATIONAL PROGRAMS, LET'S NOT HIRE VOCATIONAL TEACHERS, LET'S TAKE CLASSROOM SPACE THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY VOCATIONAL CLASSROOMS AND TURN THEM INTO OTHER KINDS OF PROGRAMS.

STEVE BIRKLIGHT>> IN THE MORNING WHEN YOU START YOUR CAR, THE FAN WILL MAKE MORE NOISE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> STUDENTS IN THE AUTOMOTIVE TECHNOLOGY PROGRAM AT CERRITOS ALREADY HAVE JOBS AT LOCAL DEALERSHIPS AND AUTO MANUFACTURERS HELP PLAN AND SUPPORT THE TECHNOLOGY. STEVE BIRKLIGHT RUNS THE PROGRAM.

STEVE BIRKLIGHT>> IF THEY DON'T HAVE THIS TRAINING, BEING A DEALERSHIP TECHNICIAN IS PRETTY MUCH CLOSED TO YOU. I DON'T THINK IT'S AVAILABLE BECAUSE OF THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE TECHNOLOGY TODAY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> LIKE MANY GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL SENIORS, ROOSEVELT REUBEN WAS STUCK IN A FAST FOOD JOB.

ROOSEVELT REUBEN>> WHEN I WAS WORKING AT THE FAST FOOD, I WAS MAKING MINIMUM WAGE. HOPEFULLY, WHEN I GRADUATE, I SHOULD BE MAKING A MINIMUM OF $15 TO $18 AN HOUR.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THAT'S THE EXPERIENCE OF ALEX PEREZ, WHO FINISHED THE CERRITOS AUTO PROGRAM AND NOW WORKS FULL-TIME AT THE NEARBY SATURN DEALERSHIP.

ALEX PEREZ>> I'M GETTING ABOUT $15 AN HOUR.

JEFF HARRIS>> I REALLY DON'T THINK THE WORD IS OUT THERE HOW MUCH MONEY AND POTENTIAL THERE IS FOR A TECHNICIAN AND SOME OF THE KIDS REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT, IF THEY HAVE A KNACK FOR FIXING CARS AND THEY KIND OF TINKER ON THEIR OWN CARS, THERE COULD BE A CHANCE FOR THEM TO GET SOME MORE TRAINING AND COME INTO A VERY LUCRATIVE FIELD WHERE, IF YOU'RE GOOD, YOU CAN MAKE VERY GOOD MONEY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT THE PROGRAM FACES A BIG CHALLENGE, CHANGING THE IMAGE OF WHAT SOME REGARD AS BLUE COLLAR WORK.

STEVE BIRKLIGHT>> IT'S REAL IMPORTANT FOR US TO CHANGE THE RELATIONSHIP OF WHAT STUDENTS AND MAYBE THE STUDENTS' PARENTS HAVE AS TO THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY AS A CAREER PATH. IT'S GOT EVERYTHING GOING FOR IT. YOU'RE GOING TO BE EMPLOYED FOREVER AND YET WE HAVE A LACK OF STUDENTS ENTERING INTO THE INDUSTRY. IT JUST ISN'T THERE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT KREMER SAYS SOME PARENTS STILL NEED CONVINCING SINCE VOCATIONAL WORK MAY SEEM TO BE LACKING THE PRESTIGE OFFERED BY OTHER PROFESSIONS.

NICK KREMER>> ECONOMICALLY, WE'RE LEFT WITH NOT HAVING THE KIND OF SKILLED WORKFORCE WE NEED TO SUCCEED AS A NATION, AND WHAT WE'RE ALSO LEFT WITH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE FOR WHOM UNIVERSITY IS NOT OF INTEREST OR THEY'RE NOT REALLY PREPARED FOR IT AND THEY REALLY WANT TO DO THESE OCCUPATIONS. BUT THERE ARE NOT PARENTS, THERE ARE NOT COUNSELORS, SOCIETY IN GENERAL IS NOT ENCOURAGING THEM TO PURSUE THESE SKILLED BLUE COLLAR TYPE OF OCCUPATIONS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> A LACK OF SKILLED WORKERS IS EXACTLY WHAT CONCERNS THE OWNER OF WIRE CUT, A HIGH-TECH BUENA PARK MACHINE SHOP. MILTON THOMAS STARTED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AS A JOURNEYMAN TOOL AND DIE MAKER. NOW HE EMPLOYS SEVENTY PEOPLE AND HE'S PROUD OF THESE SURROUNDINGS, AIR CONDITIONING, WHITE WALLS AND BRIGHTLY COLORED MACHINERY. NOWHERE IS THERE EVIDENCE OF THE HOT, OILY, DARK FACTORIES OF THE PAST. BUT THOMAS AND OTHERS IN HIS INDUSTRY STILL HAVE TROUBLE FINDING WORKERS.

MILTON THOMAS>> THEY HAVE NO INTEREST BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE. THEY ARE NOT EXPOSED TO THE MACHINE TOOL INDUSTRY IN THE SCHOOLS TODAY. EVERYBODY WANTS TO GO TO COLLEGE, BUT THEY'RE COMING OUT WITH DEGREES THAT AREN'T WORTH A DAMN. THEY'RE COMING OUT WITH SOCIOLOGY AND PSYCHOLOGY AND PHYSICS -- WELL, NOT PHYSICS -- BUT WITH SOME OF THESE DEGREES, THEY CAN'T GET A JOB. THEY'LL GET A JOB AT $25,000 OR $26,000 A YEAR. YOU DO A FOUR-YEAR PROGRAM IN A TOOL AND DIE SHOP AND YOU'RE GOING TO BE MAKING $40,000 A YEAR AT THE END OF FOUR YEARS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THOMAS SAYS HE OFTEN TURNS TO THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY FOR WILLING EMPLOYEES. HE SAYS MANUFACTURING IS OF LITTLE INTEREST TO MANY YOUNG WORKERS WHO HAVE GROWN UP HERE.

MILTON THOMAS>> IF YOU THINK ABOUT EVEN THE MOVIE INDUSTRY, A FRIEND OF MINE DOES A LOT OF MANUFACTURING FOR THE MOVIE INDUSTRY. HE MAKES PROPS. BUT IT'S HARD TO GET YOUNG PEOPLE TO GET INTO THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T SEE IT. THEY'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THEY WANT TO BE THE STAR OR PLAY THE GUITAR. WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS SOMEBODY TO MAKE THE GUITARS.

JESS>> SINCE WE FIRST AIRED OUR STORY, CERRITOS COMMUNITY COLLEGE HAS ADDED TO ITS VO-TECH PROGRAM. THE SCHOOL HAS JUST GOTTEN A $2 MILLION DOLLAR GRANT AIMED AT ENCOURAGING LATINO STUDENTS TO STUDY HEALTH. FROM THAT, THEY MAY PURSUE CAREERS IN NURSING AND DENTAL HYGIENE, TWO FIELDS WHERE THE PROSPECTS FOR FINDING A JOB RIGHT AWAY ARE VERY GOOD.

VAL>> AND TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, IT WAS RICHARD NIXON’S BIG COMEBACK SPEECH AND IT HAPPENED FIFTY YEARS AGO IN HOLLYWOOD. IT WAS ALL ABOUT A LITTLE DOG NAMED CHECKERS WHO HELPED NIXON DODGE A CRISIS.

RICHARD NIXON>> “I SHOULD SAY THIS, THAT PAT DOESN’T HAVE A MINK COAT, BUT SHE DOES HAVE A RESPECTABLE REPUBLICAN CLOTH COAT AND I ALWAYS TELL HER THAT SHE’D LOOK GOOD IN ANYTHING.”

JESS>> IF YOU’VE EVER WONDERED WHETHER ONE PERSON CAN TRULY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD, YOU’LL WANT TO MEET OUR NEXT GUEST. SHE HAS BEEN ON A MISSION FOR A GOOD PART OF HER ADULT LIFE AND, FOR THAT, SHE HAS A RATHER IMPRESSIVE SOUVENIR: A 1997 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE.

VAL>> JODY WILLIAMS IS A CRUSADER, BUT SHE’S ALSO A TEACHER. HER GOAL IS TO SHOW THE WORLD THE HORRORS OF LANDMINES, THOSE HIDDEN KILLING MACHINES THAT ARE SCATTERED ACROSS SO MANY THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES. HERE’S A BRIEF LOOK AT WILLIAMS’ RECENT STOP IN AFGHANISTAN.

>> “MIND YOU, THESE MINES SHOULD BE UNDER THE GROUND, YOU KNOW. BUT DUE TO THE PASSING OF TIME, SO -- AS WE HAVE SAID IN THE BRIEFINGS, WE HAVE CLEARED FIRST THE PATH. SO THIS IS A PATH WHICH WAS EVEN USED BY ANOTHER VILLAGE, SO THAT’S WHY WE HAVE CLEARED FIRST THE PATH AND MOVED ALL THESE OTHER SIDES. SO WHAT THE PEOPLE HAVE DONE, THEY HAVE DUG THIS CANAL BY THEMSELVES AND PUT AWAY ALL THE MINES.

IT’S A GRAVEYARD, OR CEMETERY, AND WE CANNOT USE MECHANICAL EXCAVATION BECAUSE ALL THE GRAVEYARDS WILL BE DESTROYED. YOU KNOW, THE EXCAVATION. SO EVEN SOME OF THE PEOPLE CAME AND SAID, HEY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU ARE TAKING OUT OUR DECEASED PEOPLE. SO WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE IN WHAT WE SHOULD DO, SO THAT’S OUR PROBLEM AND YOU CAN SEE IT.”

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS NOBEL PRIZE WINNER, JODY WILLIAMS. WITH THE RECOGNITION OF YOUR WORK AND THE NOBEL PRIZE, THE WORLD BECAME AWARE, TO SOME EXTENT, HOW WIDESPREAD THE DANGERS OF MINES IS. ARE WE MAKING PROGRESS?

JODY WILLIAMS>> WELL, FROM EVERY MEASURE, WE ACTUALLY ARE. IT ACTUALLY IS FIVE YEARS AGO YESTERDAY -- WELL, THE EIGHTEENTH OF THE MONTH -- THAT WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN NEGOTIATING A TREATY TO BAN THE WEAPON. THAT’S THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY THAT A CONVENTIONAL WEAPON HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM MILITARY ALL OVER THE WORLD.

VAL>> THE TREATY JUST DECLARES IT ILLEGAL?

JODY WILLIAMS>> ILLEGAL.

VAL>> SO COUNTRIES WHO SIGN IT SAY THEY WILL NOT --

JODY WILLIAMS>> -- USE, PRODUCE, TRADE, STOCKPILE THE WEAPON.

JESS>> ABSENT FROM THOSE SIGNATURES IS THAT OF THE UNITED STATES.

JODY WILLIAMS>> THAT IS, UNFORTUNATELY, THE TRUTH, YES.

JESS>> WHAT RATIONALE?

JODY WILLIAMS>> THEY SAY THEY NEED THEM FOR KOREA, BUT I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS A CONCERN OF THE MILITARY THAT, IF THEY GIVE UP ONE WEAPON, IT WILL PUT OTHER WEAPONS AT RISK.

JESS>> YOU SAID THEY NEED THEM FOR KOREA. THE MINING OF THE DEMILITARIZED ZONE, IS IT?

JODY WILLIAMS>> YES. THAT IS THE ARGUMENT THEY USE, BUT I DON’T REALLY BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE ISSUE. FIRST OF ALL, THE KOREANS THEMSELVES OWN THOSE MINES AND WE’VE BEEN VERY PLEASED TO HEAR THAT NORTH AND SOUTH KOREA ARE STARTING TO DE-MINE SECTIONS OF THAT ZONE TO ALLOW FAMILIES TO SEE EACH OTHER AGAIN. SO I DON’T THINK THAT IT’S A WEAPON WE NEED TO PROTECT THE SOUTH.

VAL>> SO YOU STILL WANT TO GET THE U.S. TO SIGN THE TREATY, BUT OTHER PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE, RIGHT? YOU HAVE HAD -- HOW MANY MINES HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN REMOVED FROM THE EARTH’S SOIL, NEVER TO DO DAMAGE AGAIN?

JODY WILLIAMS>> WELL, THERE ARE DE-MINING PROGRAMS NOW IN SEVENTY COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. WE HAVE BEEN ABLE, IN THE FIVE YEARS SINCE THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE TREATY, TO HAVE THIRTY-FOUR MILLION MINES DESTROYED FROM STOCKPILES, WHICH MEANS THEY WILL NEVER GET IN THE GROUND AND TAKE A LIFE OR A LIMB.

WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THIS EFFORT, FIFTY-FIVE COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD PRODUCED LANDMINES JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COMMODITY WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT THE LONG-TERM IMPACT. TODAY THERE ARE ONLY A HANDFUL. THIS IS ALL THE WORK OF ORDINARY CITIZENS AROUND THE WORLD WHO CARE TO TRY TO MAKE LIFE BETTER FOR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

JESS>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE UNITED STATES AND OUR POSITION. THE U.S. IS IN COMPLIANCE, BUT NOT A SIGNATORY? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

JODY WILLIAMS>> WELL, IT'S VERY CONFUSING TO MANY OF US, SINCE THE U.S. IN THE EARLY YEARS OF THE CAMPAIGN IN 1992 AND 1993 REALLY WAS A LEADER ON THIS ISSUE. WE HAVE NOT USED THE WEAPON SINCE 1991 DURING THE FIRST WAR IN IRAQ, WE HAVEN'T EXPORTED SINCE 1992, WE HAVE A TOTAL BAN ON EXPORTS, WE HAVEN'T PRODUCED SINCE 1997, WE'VE ACTUALLY DESTROYED THREE MILLION OF OUR STOCKPILE AND WE'RE ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTORS IN THE WORLD FOR VICTIM ASSISTANCE AND MINE CLEARANCE. SO WHY NOT TAKE THE LAST LITTLE STEP ON AN ISSUE OF CONCERN TO THE WORLD COMMUNITY?

JESS>> HOW MANY DO WE HAVE STOCKPILED?

JODY WILLIAMS>> I THINK RIGHT NOW IN THE U.S., IT'S THE THIRD LARGEST STOCKPILE IN THE WORLD AND IT'S THIRTEEN MILLION.

JESS>> MAYBE THAT'S WHY.

JODY WILLIAMS>> WELL, I REALLY THINK IT'S MUCH MORE AN ISSUE OF INSTITUTIONAL PREROGATIVE. JUST BEING CONCERNED THAT, IF THEY GIVE THIS UP, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS WHO WILL ASK THEM TO GIVE SOMETHING ELSE UP? BUT THE WORLD HAS REALLY DECIDED THAT THIS IS AN ILLEGAL WEAPON, THAT THE LONG-TERM IMPACT IS NOT WORTH THE UTILITY OF THE WEAPON DURING WAR.

VAL>> NOW AS WE SAW, YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF WORK IN AFGHANISTAN WHICH, AFTER SO MANY YEARS OF WAR, IS JUST REPLETE WITH THESE LANDMINES. YOU WERE THERE RECENTLY TO DO WHAT?

JODY WILLIAMS>> I WAS THERE AT THE END OF JULY. THERE WAS AN INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE SPONSORED BY THE UNITED NATIONS, THE NEW GOVERNMENT OF PRESIDENT KARZAI AND MY INSTITUTION, THE INTERNATIONAL CAMPAIGN TO BAN LANDMINES. WE WERE THERE TO EDUCATE THE NEW GOVERNMENT ABOUT THE TREATY AND THEIR OBLIGATION, SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO JOIN. WE WERE TOTALLY THRILLED BECAUSE, WHILE I WAS THERE, THEY SIGNED AND I WAS ABLE TO TAKE PART IN THE SIGNING CEREMONY WITH THE FOREIGN MINISTER.

VAL>> YOU WERE ALSO ABLE TO GIVE THEM SOME MONEY, I BELIEVE? HOW MUCH TO DO WHAT?

JODY WILLIAMS>> THERE IS A WONDERFUL ORGANIZATION CALLED ROOTS OF PEACE UP IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA STARTED BY ONE WOMAN WHO WANTS TO RETURN LAND TO PRODUCTIVE USE. I'M ON THEIR BOARD AND WE GAVE $57,000 TO HELP CLEAR THE SOMALI VALLEY OUTSIDE OF KABUL.

JESS>> AND THIS IS AN AGRICULTURAL VALLEY?

JODY WILLIAMS>> IT'S A BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL AGRICULTURAL VALLEY THAT SHOULD BE RETURNED TO PRODUCTIVE USE.

JESS>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF VICTIMS OF THE LANDMINES ARE CHILDREN? IT SEEMS TO ME AT LEAST WE'RE TOUCHED BY IT MOSTLY WHEN IT'S CHILDREN.

JODY WILLIAMS>> WELL, LOOK AT THESE KIDS OF AFRICA. ABOUT A THIRD. IT REALLY VARIES FROM COUNTRY TO COUNTRY, DEPENDING ON THE TASKS THAT CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED IN IN SUSTAINING THEIR FAMILIES. AS YOU KNOW, IN DEVELOPING WORLDS, CHILDREN REALLY DON'T HAVE CHILDHOODS. THEY'RE WORKING MEMBERS OF FAMILIES.

JESS>> LOSS OF LIMB.

JODY WILLIAMS>> LOSS OF LIMB, YEAH. RUINS THEIR LIVELIHOOD FOR LIFE.

VAL>> NOW IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE, IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY, MOST OF THE VICTIMS OF LANDMINES DON'T DIE, CORRECT? THEY JUST --

JODY WILLIAMS>> -- ABOUT FIFTY PERCENT DIE ON THE SPOT, FIFTY PERCENT ARE MAIMED FOR LIFE.

VAL>> ALL RIGHT, SO IT'S ABOUT --

JODY WILLIAMS>> -- IT IS TERRIBLE. THIS YEAR, IN OUR LANDMINE MONITOR REPORT WHICH CHRONICLES THE PROGRESS AND THE CHALLENGES THAT REMAIN BEFORE US, WE FOUND THAT THERE WERE LANDMINE ACCIDENTS IN SIXTY-NINE COUNTRIES THIS YEAR, MEANING SOMEBODY DIED OR LOST A LIMB IN SIXTY-NINE COUNTRIES. BUT WHAT IS MORE SHOCKING IS THAT, OF THOSE COUNTRIES, FORTY-SIX ARE [INAUDIBLE]. THAT MEANS THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON BEING KILLED OR MAIMED IN THOSE FORTY-SIX COUNTRIES IS A CIVILIAN. IT'S JUST NOT RIGHT.

JESS>> IN YOUR POLITICAL ACTIVITY, YOU HAVE MANAGED TO PERSUADE MOST MANUFACTURERS IN THE UNITED STATES TO GIVE UP MAKING LANDMINES, BUT NOT ALL?

JODY WILLIAMS>> NOT ALL. WHEN WE STARTED RESEARCHING THE NUMBER OF PRODUCERS IN THIS COUNTRY THROUGH HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, WHICH IS A MEMBER OF THE CAMPAIGN, WE FOUND FORTY-NINE COMPANIES THAT WERE PRODUCERS EITHER OF MINES OR COMPONENTS. WE SENT THEM A LETTER EXPLAINING THE GLOBAL PROBLEM AND THE FEELING OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY AND INVITED THEM TO VOLUNTARILY RENOUNCE PRODUCTION.

THE FIRST COMPANY TO DO SO, AND WE APPLAUD THEM FOR IT, WAS MOTOROLA. AS OF TODAY, THERE ARE NINETEEN COMPANIES THAT HAVE VOLUNTARILY STOPPED BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE PROBLEM. BUT GENERAL ELECTRIC, WHICH BRINGS GOOD THINGS TO LIFE, ALSO BRINGS MAIMING AND DEATH TO PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT RENOUNCE.

VAL>> THEY WOULD NOT RENOUNCE?

JODY WILLIAMS>> THEY WOULD NOT RENOUNCE, NO.

VAL>> DID THEY GIVE A REASON OR WERE THEY JUST VAGUE IN SAYING --

JODY WILLIAMS>> -- OH, VAGUE. YOU KNOW, NATIONAL SECURITY, SELF-DEFENSE, YOU KNOW, THE SOVEREIGN STATE, TYPICAL ARGUMENTS THAT YOU GET ABOUT WEAPONRY.

JESS>> WELL, IN FACT, THE PENTAGON INSISTS THEY DO HAVE TO HAVE LANDMINES AS PART OF OUR ARSENAL FOR SELF-DEFENSE.

JODY WILLIAMS>> THAT IS AN ARGUMENT THEY USE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS JUSTIFIED. IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT ALL OF OUR NATO ALLIES ARE PART OF THIS TREATY EXCEPT THE UNITED STATES AND TURKEY, THEY WERE USING MINES THE SAME WAY WE WERE. HOW COME ALL OF THE HIGH-TECH MILITARIES OF, YOU KNOW, OUR ALLIANCE CAN GIVE THEM UP AND WE CAN'T? THE SOLE REMAINING SUPER POWER? WE'RE THE MOST HIGHLY-ADVANCED MILITARY IN THE WORLD. IF YOU LOOK AT HOW WE FOUGHT THE LAST FEW WARS, WE FIGHT FROM THE AIR. WE DON'T EVEN USE LANDMINES.

VAL>> WELL, JODY WILLIAMS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BY AND CONGRATULATIONS. WE WISH YOU ALL THE BEST ON AN AMAZING MISSION.

JODY WILLIAMS>> THANK YOU.

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
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LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
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VAL>> HOW MUCH DO YOU RELY ON YOUR CELL PHONE AND CAN YOU GET THROUGH THE DAY WITHOUT IT? WELL, FOR MANY OF US, OUR CELL PHONES ARE INDISPENSABLE. A WAY TO STAY PLUGGED IN EVEN WHEN WE'RE ON THE RUN. NOW CELL PHONES ARE BECOMING SOMETHING ELSE. A GREAT NEW TOOL FOR DETECTIVES.

JESS>> OUR LEGAL EXPERT IS HERE TONIGHT TO EXPLAIN HOW THOSE LITTLE PHONES ARE HELPING AUTHORITIES CRACK SOME BIG CASES. SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE KEVIN ROSS SAYS IT'S A CASE WHERE THE BAD GUYS SHOULD BE AWARE, BUT USUALLY AREN'T. AND IT'S TO THE BENEFIT OF DETECTIVES AND OTHER INVESTIGATORS THAT THEY AREN'T AWARE.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> IT IS, AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS THAT ALMOST HALF OF AMERICANS OWN CELL PHONES.

VAL>> HALF OF AMERICANS?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> AND THE NUMBERS RIGHT NOW, BY 2006, ARE EXPECTED TO EVEN DOUBLE. SO FOR THE MOST PART, EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE WALKING AROUND WITH A CELL PHONE NOT EVEN REALIZING THAT, AS YOU'RE WALKING AND TALKING, PEOPLE ARE TRACKING WHO YOU'RE CALLING. THEY MAY NOT NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT THE CONVERSATION IS, BUT THEY KNOW THAT THE PERSON THAT'S HOLDING THAT CELL NUMBER IS TALKING TO SOMEONE ON THE OTHER END OR THEY CAN GET A SENSE OF WHERE YOU ARE. IF YOU'RE SAYING, NO, I COULDN'T HAVE COMMITTED THAT CRIME, I WAS AT A MALL AND A BODY IS BURIED SOMEWHERE IN THE ANGELES FOREST, AND YOUR CELL PHONE SHOWS THAT THERE WAS A CALL MADE AT THE ANGELES FOREST, IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO REBUT YOUR INNOCENCE.

VAL>> BUT PHONE BILLS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN USED IN COURT CASES AS EVIDENCE. WHAT MAKES CELL PHONES SO SPECIALLY USEFUL? IS IT THE LOCATING ATTRIBUTE?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT REGULAR PHONES -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS WHOLE NOTION OF A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY IN THE LAW. JUST LIKE IF YOU WERE IN YOUR HOUSE AND YOU DON'T EXPECT SOMEONE TO JUST BE ABLE TO COME INTO YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT, WITHOUT KNOCKING AND ANNOUNCING. WHEN YOU HAVE A LANDLINE PHONE, IT'S KIND OF THE SAME THING. FOR THE MOST PART, YOU'RE NOT EXPECTING THAT PEOPLE CAN REALLY TRACK AND TRACE WHO YOU'RE TALKING WITH.

JESS>> WELL, IN FACT, IN ORDER TO TAP THE PHONE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION OF THE COURT.

VAL>> RIGHT. COURT ORDER.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE. THERE HAS TO BE A SEARCH WARRANT OR INITIALLY A WARRANT ASKING FOR THE TAPPING.

JESS>> BUT THE CELL PHONE INFORMATION, NONE OF THAT IS REQUIRED?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> NO, IT'S THE SAME THING. IT'S THE SAME THING. THE DIFFERENCE IS, THE CELL PHONE IS RECORDING THE CONVERSATIONS, PERIOD, SO THE COMPANIES HAVE THE INFORMATION. BUT IN CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS, WHAT TENDS TO HAPPEN IS THAT INVESTIGATORS AND POLICE AND DISTRICT ATTORNEYS WILL ASK A JUDGE CAN WE HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE RECORDS, THE SAME AS YOU WOULD WITH ANY PHONE. THE DIFFERENCE IS, WITH CELL PHONES, NOT ONLY DO YOU KNOW WHO'S HAVING THE CONVERSATION, BUT YOU KNOW WHERE THE PERSON IS.

VAL>> WHERE THEY ARE.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> SO IF YOU ARE IN YOUR HOUSE, UNLESS THE CRIME OCCURRED INSIDE THE HOUSE, IT REALLY DOESN'T HELP YOU A LOT. BUT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT LOCATION, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TIMING OF THE CALLS AND WHO WERE YOU CALLING WHEN YOU WERE MAKING THOSE PHONE CALLS --

VAL>> -- WELL, THIS MADE A DIFFERENCE IN A COUPLE OF HIGH-PROFILE CASES LATELY.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> QUITE A FEW. ONE OF THEM THAT COMES TO MIND IS THAT NORTH CAROLINA CASE INVOLVING THE FOOTBALL PLAYER, THE FORMER CAROLINA PANTHER, RAY CARRUTH. HE WAS CHARGED WITH ASSISTING IN THE MURDER OF HIS SEVEN-MONTH PREGNANT GIRLFRIEND. APPARENTLY, THEY WENT AND SAW THE MOVIE "THE BONE COLLECTOR" AND, APPARENTLY, THAT HAD SOME SORT OF IMPACT ON WHAT HAPPENED AFTERWARDS.

MINUTES AFTER THEY'D FINISHED GOING TO THE MOVIE THEATER, THIS WOMAN WAS RIDDLED WITH BULLETS. THEY WERE IN SEPARATE CARS, BUT THEY WERE DRIVING NEXT TO EACH OTHER. THE POSITION OF THE ATHLETE WAS I WAS MILES AWAY, I WASN'T NEAR HER, I DON'T KNOW WHO THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE, WHO COMMITTED THE SHOOTING. THEY, IN TURN, AGREED TO PLEA TO A LESSER CHARGE AND SAID NOT ONLY WAS HE THE PERSON WHO HIRED US TO KILL HER, BUT THEN THE PHONE RECORDS THROUGH HIS CELL PHONE SHOWED THAT HE HAD MADE CALLS TO THESE INDIVIDUALS.

JESS>> EVEN IN THE TWO INSTANCES INVOLVING THE SEXUAL ABUSE AND MURDERS OF CHILDREN IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA --

VAL>> -- THAT'S RIGHT. SAMANTHA RUNNION AND -- BOTH OF THEM. THEY USED LOCATIONS THROUGH CELL PHONE BILLS TO PINPOINT ON THE SUSPECTS.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, EVEN JUST TAKE IT ONE STEP BEFORE THAT. RAFAEL PEREZ. THE WHOLE NOTION OF THE FACT THAT THERE WERE THESE DRUGS IN THE EVIDENCE LOCKER --

JESS>> -- THIS IS THE RAMPART SCANDAL.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> THIS IS THE RAMPART SCANDAL INVOLVING OFFICER PEREZ. HE INDICATED I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THOSE ITEMS FROM THE EVIDENCE LOCKER BEING STOLEN, BUT YET HIS CELL PHONE REFLECTED THAT HE HAD MADE CALLS TO VARIOUS PEOPLE, INCLUDING HIS GIRLFRIEND WHO WAS ALSO THE DRUG DEALER. SO THAT CONNECTED HIM TO THAT CRIME WHICH ULTIMATELY RESULTED IN HIM DOING THE FIVE YEARS.

VAL>> NOW IT'S AMAZING TO ME, I GUESS, HOW DUMB PEOPLE CAN BE. I MEAN, I KNOW WHEN I GET MY CELL PHONE BILL, OKAY, SOMEBODY KNOWS WHEN I CALLED, WHERE I WAS AND FOR HOW LONG I WAS ON THE PHONE. DON'T CRIMINALS KNOW THAT THEY CAN TRACK DOWN THESE CALLS AND FIGURE IT OUT?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, NOT ONLY IS IT GOING TO IMPACT CRIMINALS, BUT IT CAN ALSO POTENTIALLY AFFECT CASES INVOLVING DIVORCE OR IN CIVIL LITIGATION BECAUSE, AS WE BECOME MORE AND MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THE USE OF THE CELL PHONES IN GETTING THAT INFORMATION, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IT GOING BEYOND JUST THESE CRIMINAL MATTERS.

VAL>> BUT HERE'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M SAYING DON'T THESE PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET CAUGHT IF THEY USE THEIR CELL PHONE? WON'T THEY JUST AVOID MAKING CELL PHONE CALLS?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE -- JUST LIKE I FOUND SOMETHING OUT RECENTLY. MORE AND MORE CARS HAVE TRACKING DEVICES NOW BECAUSE A LOT OF CARS ARE COMPUTERIZED --

VAL>> -- LOW-JACK AND ALL THAT.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, WHEN I HAD MY CAR SERVICED RECENTLY, THE DEALER SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A CHIP IN YOUR CAR THAT LETS US KNOW HOW THE OIL AND DIFFERENT THINGS ARE FUNCTIONING. I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THAT. SO I THINK, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, WE'RE NOT AWARE OF THE FACT THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING NOT ONLY CAN SOMEONE SAY WE KNOW THAT THIS PERSON CALLED THIS PHONE, BUT WE CAN SAY EXACTLY WHERE YOU WERE WHEN YOU CALLED. I THINK WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT JUST HASN'T REGISTERED FOR THEM YET.

VAL>> BUT, YOU KNOW, I --

JESS>> -- GO STRAIGHT. THAT'S THE ONLY ANSWER (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT THESE CRIMINALS, AS SOON AS THEY FIGURE OUT THAT CELL PHONES ARE SO, YOU KNOW, DANGEROUS --

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> -- EASILY DETECTABLE.

VAL>> -- THEY'RE GOING TO FIND A WAY AROUND THEM.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, THE INTERESTING THING, IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THIS YEAR, DISPOSABLE CELL PHONES ARE COMING. YOU KNOW, LIKE DISPOSABLE CAMERAS. BEFORE, PEOPLE WOULD SAY WHY WOULD ANYONE POSSIBLY BUY A DISPOSABLE CAMERA AND, LOOK, WE USE THEM ALL THE TIME. THERE'S A COMPANY HERE THAT'S GOING TO BE INTRODUCING THOSE DISPOSABLE CELL PHONES. YOU CAN GO GET YOUR GAS, GET YOUR SNICKERS AND THEN PICK UP A DISPOSABLE CELL PHONE, USE IT AND DISCARD IT.

VAL>> SO IT'S GOOD FOR ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CALLS. YOU SORT OF BUY IT ALREADY PROGRAMMED?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> EXACTLY. YOU BUY IT PRE-PROGRAMMED. NOW THAT'S GOING TO KIND OF PUT A CHINK IN THE ARMOR OF INVESTIGATORS BECAUSE, IF SOMEONE CAN JUST DISPOSE OF IT THAT EASILY AND THEY CAN PAY CASH FOR IT, THE WHOLE NOTION OF BEING ABLE TO INVESTIGATE -- ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE DEALING IN DRUGS, THEY USED TO USE THE PAY PHONE AT THE LOCAL CORNER. WELL, NOW THAT DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE YOU CAN TRACE THAT.

VAL>> AND IF YOU JUST BUY THIS DISPOSABLE CELL PHONE, OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T HAVE TO FILL OUT WHO YOU ARE, WHERE YOU ARE, SO THERE'S NO WAY TO TRACK A CELL PHONE TO A HUMAN BEING.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> EXACTLY, SO IT MAY BE ANOTHER VEHICLE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE BRAIN, SO TO SPEAK.

JESS>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RELY ON SEMAPHORE SIGNALS, MORSE CODE (LAUGHTER).

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME INDIVIDUALS, ESPECIALLY A LOT OF PRIVACY EXPERTS, WHO ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE ARE LOSING THESE EXPECTATIONS OF PRIVACY. FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ENGAGED IN THIS TYPE OF DEFENSE, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO OVERCOME WHEN YOU'VE GOT THE CELL PHONE RECORDS SITTING RIGHT THERE SAYING THIS IS WHERE YOU WERE.

JESS>> JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND THANKS FOR THE WARNING.

VAL>> NO CELL PHONES IN YOUR COURTROOM, I TAKE IT (LAUGHTER).

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY NOT. THEY'RE CONFISCATED FORTHWITH (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT. FOR MORE, CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG WHERE YOU WILL FIND TRANSCRIPTS OF LIFE AND TIMES AND STREAMING AUDIO AND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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