9/25/02

LC020925

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> CHOOSING SIDES BETWEEN LANDLORDS AND TENANTS. IT’S NOW PART OF THE BATTLE OVER VALLEY SECESSION.

JEFF BRAIN>> THIS HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE IN THE SIX YEARS THAT WE’VE WORKED ON THIS PROJECT UNTIL THE OPPOSITION, USING IT AS A FEAR TACTIC, INVOKED THIS ISSUE.

VAL>> GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS SHORED UP HIS POLITICAL BASE THIS WEEK WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN. NOW CALIFORNIA HAS A NEW LAW THAT GUARANTEES TIME OFF TO CARE FOR A BABY OR A SICK RELATIVE, BUT WILL SMALL BUSINESSES PAY THE PRICE?

JESS>> PATT MORRISON HAS BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE CAPTAINS OF INDUSTRY AND SHE WONDERS WHY SOME OF THEM GET ALL THE PERKS.

PATT MORRISON>> SOCIAL SECURITY FOR A RETIRED CEO. HOW MANY MILLIONS ARE ENOUGH -- ON TONIGHT’S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> AND THEN A LOOK AT AN AMERICAN CULTURAL PHENOMENON THAT LASTED MORE THAN THREE DECADES.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> THOSE WHO WERE PART OF “THE GRATEFUL DEAD” SAY THEIR JOURNEY WAS DEFINITELY LONG AND DEFINITELY STRANGE. TONIGHT WE’LL MEET THE BAND’S OFFICIAL HISTORIAN. HE’LL SEPARATE MYTHS FROM LEGENDS AS WE LOOK BACK AT THIS GREAT CALIFORNIA BAND.

JESS>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. THE BATTLE OVER SECESSION IS HEATED ENOUGH ALL BY ITSELF, BUT NOW ANOTHER HOT ISSUE HAS SURFACED. IT IS RENT CONTROL, AND IT’S GIVING VOTERS IN THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY ONE MORE THING TO CONSIDER IN NOVEMBER.

VAL>> THE ISSUE OF WHETHER TO ESTABLISH RENT CONTROL FOR A NEW VALLEY CITY IS FORCING VOTERS AND CANDIDATES TO CHOOSE SIDES AND, AS TONI GUINYARD REPORTS, IT COULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE LARGER SECESSION VOTE COME NOVEMBER.

TONI GUINYARD>> IF YOU LIVE IN LOS ANGELES AND RENT AN APARTMENT, YOU ARE IN THE MAJORITY. SIX OUT OF TEN LOS ANGELES RESIDENTS ARE TENANTS, RENTERS WHO SUDDENLY FIND THEMSELVES THE PRIZE IN A POLITICAL TUG-OF-WAR BEING WAGED OVER VALLEY INDEPENDENCE, SECESSION.

JEFF BRAIN>> WE’RE COMPASSIONATE PEOPLE. WE UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS OF THE RENTERS.

TONI GUINYARD>> JEFF BRAIN IS PRESIDENT OF VALLEY VOTE. HE’S A LEADER IN THE SECESSION CAMPAIGN. HE SPENT YEARS LOBBYING FOR SUPPORT OF VALLEY INDEPENDENCE AND TRYING TO SELL THE PUBLIC ON THE BENEFITS OF BREAKING AWAY FROM THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES. HE WANTS TO KEEP ATTENTION FOCUSED ON THE ISSUES RELATING TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND SMALLER CITY SIZE, BUT HE’S BEING FORCED TO RESPOND TO THE ISSUE OF RENT CONTROL.

JEFF BRAIN>> THIS HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE IN THE SIX YEARS THAT WE’VE WORKED ON THIS PROJECT UNTIL THE OPPOSITION, USING IT AS A FEAR TACTIC, INVOKED THIS ISSUE.

LARRY GROSS>> I THINK TENANTS SHOULD BE SCARED, AS I SAY, BECAUSE THEY’RE RISKING THEIR HOMES IF THEY VOTE FOR SECESSION.

TONI GUINYARD>> LARRY GROSS IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COALITION FOR ECONOMIC SURVIVAL. HE EXPLAINS THAT APARTMENTS IN LOS ANGELES BUILT PRIOR TO 1979 ARE UNDER RENT CONTROL. BY LAW, THE ANNUAL RENT INCREASES AT THESE APARTMENTS ARE TIED TO THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX WITH A FLOOR OF THREE PERCENT.

LARRY GROSS>> IF THE LANDLORD ALSO PAYS EITHER GAS OR ELECTRICITY, THEY’RE ALLOWED AN ADDITIONAL ONE PERCENT FOR EACH OF THOSE UTILITIES. ANYTHING MORE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO BEFORE A RENT ADJUSTMENT COMMISSION AND MAKE THEIR CASE THAT THEY’RE NOT MAKING ENDS MEET WITH THAT INCREASE.

TONI GUINYARD>> EVERY DOCUMENT ON HIS DESK, EVERY SCRAP OF PAPER YOU SEE, IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO SOME ASPECT OF TENANT RIGHTS AND RENT CONTROL. HE IS SPEARHEADING THE DRIVE AGAINST SECESSION BY PUTTING THE HOUSING ISSUE IN THE SPOTLIGHT. THE COALITION FOR ECONOMIC SURVIVAL IS NO STRANGER TO FIGHTING FOR TENANTS’ RIGHTS. IT WAS ABLE TO GET THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES TO ESTABLISH RENT CONTROL, BUT THAT WAS BACK IN 1978 AND A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN.

LARRY GROSS>> WE’VE BEEN HAVING TO FIGHT ATTACKS FROM THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY IN TRYING TO WEAKEN OR ELIMINATE THE RENT CONTROL LAW.

TONI GUINYARD>> IF THE VALLEY SECEDES, THE LIFE OR DEATH OF RENT CONTROL IN THE NEW SAN FERNANDO VALLEY CITY WILL BE UP TO ITS ELECTED OFFICIALS.

JUDY MESISCA>> WE’RE NOT CONVINCED THAT RENT STABILIZATION WOULD CARRY OVER TO THIS NEW CITY, THIS NEW VALLEY CITY, AND EVERYTHING THAT WE’VE FOUGHT FOR WOULD BE LOST.

TONI GUINYARD>> TO DISPEL THOSE FEARS, SUPPORTERS OF VALLEY INDEPENDENCE ARE OFFERING UP A PROMISE. AND THESE ARE?

JUDY MESISCA>> RENTERS’ BUDGETS SIGNED BY THE CANDIDATES.

LAURETTE HEALEY>> IN THE ABSENCE OF BEING ABLE TO GO OUT AS A CITY AND CREATE LEGISLATION THAT WOULD GIVE THE RESIDENTS THE ASSURANCE THAT THEY HAVE NOTHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT OR THAT THEIR CONCERNS WOULD BE MITIGATED, WE HAVE UNDERTAKEN TO HAVE A PLEDGE WHICH ESSENTIALLY STATES THAT THE RENT CONTROL LAWS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE WITH LOS ANGELES WILL BE HONORED AND ENFORCED IN THE NEW VALLEY CITY.

TONI GUINYARD>> ONE HUNDRED ONE OF THE ONE HUNDRED ELEVEN NEW VALLEY CITY MAYORAL AND COUNCIL CANDIDATES HAVE SIGNED THE PLEDGE SUPPORTING RENT CONTROL, BUT ADVOCATES OF TENANTS’ RIGHTS SAY THAT SIMPLY ISN’T ENOUGH.

LARRY GROSS>> THEY’RE TOTALLY UNENFORCEABLE. THEY’RE FALSE PROMISES AND HOLLOW PLEDGES.

LAURETTE HEALEY>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO TAKE PUBLIC SERVANTS, AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER, AT THEIR WORD.

LARRY GROSS>> THESE PEOPLE HAVE DEMONSTRATED THEY’RE NO FRIENDS OF TENANTS. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT THEY’RE GOING TO CHANGE OVERNIGHT, REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY PLEDGES THEY SIGN?

LAURETTE HEALEY>> THESE ARE VALLEY RESIDENTS. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO STAKE THEIR REPUTATION, THEIR TIME, THEIR MONEY, THEIR ENERGY AND THEIR GOOD FAITH ON SOMETHING THEY BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY IN. THEY DID NOT TAKE THEIR PLEDGE LIGHTLY.

JEFF BRAIN>> THE OPPOSITION HAS RESORTED TO INVOKING FEAR AND SCARE TACTICS BECAUSE THAT’S THE ONLY WAY THEY FEEL THEY CAN BEAT THIS ISSUE. THIS ISSUE IS ABOUT LOCAL CONTROL, ABOUT SMALL AND MORE EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT, LESS COSTLY GOVERNMENT, AND THEY DON’T HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE QUESTION NOW IS WHAT WEIGHT WILL THE PLEDGES CARRY WITH VOTERS? RESIDENT AND TENANT RIGHTS ADVOCATE, JUDY MESISCA, SAYS THE BOTTOM LINE IS MAINTAINING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.

JUDY MESISCA>> THIS IS LOS ANGELES. I MEAN, OUR REAL ESTATE WAS ALWAYS MORE, OUR APARTMENTS WERE ALWAYS EXPENSIVE, BUT NOW IT’S A MATTER OF WHERE DOES THE AVERAGE PERSON LIVE? WHERE DO YOU GO?

TONI GUINYARD>> A QUESTION BEING ASKED BY MANY APARTMENT RESIDENTS AT A TIME WHEN RENT CONTROL HAS BECOME A POLITICAL ISSUE IN THE FIGHT FOR VALLEY INDEPENDENCE. I’M TONI GUINYARD FOR LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

JESS>> EASY TO SEE WHY RENT CONTROL HAS ERUPTED INTO SUCH A MAJOR ISSUE. LOS ANGELES HAS THE SECOND LARGEST NUMBERS OF RENTERS PER CAPITA IN THE NATION, RIGHT BEHIND NEW YORK CITY.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, CROSSING THE BORDER ILLEGALLY AND MEETING A DEADLY FATE IN THE DESERT. WE’LL SEE HOW RESCUERS HAVE STARTED PATROLLING SOME OF THE COUNTRY’S MOST HOSTILE TERRAIN IN HOPES OF SAVING LIVES.

>> THERE YOU CAN SEE THE FOOTPRINTS OF THE PEOPLE THAT COME BY. BASED ON THE WAY IT LOOKS, I WOULD SAY A GROUP CAME BY HERE APPROXIMATELY FIVE TO TWELVE HOURS AGO.

JESS>> CALIFORNIA HAS A WAY OF SETTING TRENDS THE REST OF THE COUNTRY FOLLOWS. IT HAPPENED AGAIN THIS WEEK WHEN GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS SIGNED THE STATE’S NEW FAMILY LEAVE ACT INTO LAW.

GRAY DAVIS>> THREE OUT OF FOUR AMERICANS WHO WOULD LIKE TO TAKE FAMILY LEAVE TO BE WITH A SERIOUSLY ILL CHILD DON’T DO IT BECAUSE THEY CAN’T AFFORD TO MISS A PAYCHECK. I DON’T WANT CALIFORNIANS TO HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BEING GOOD PARENTS AND GOOD EMPLOYEES.

JESS>> THE LEGISLATION ALLOWS A WORKER UP TO SIX WEEKS TIME OFF WITH PARTIAL PAY TO CARE FOR A NEW CHILD OR A SICK FAMILY MEMBER. ABOUT TWENTY OTHER STATES ARE NOW CONSIDERING SIMILAR MEASURES, BUT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, FEAR THAT FAMILY LEAVE WILL HURT MORE THAN IT HELPS.

VAL>> AND JOINING US TONIGHT IS THE AUTHOR OF THAT BILL, STATE SENATOR SHEILA KUEHL, DEMOCRAT FROM SANTA MONICA. ALSO WITH US HERE IS MATT BARTOSIAK. HE IS WITH THE EMPLOYERS GROUP, A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT REPRESENTS FIVE THOUSAND COMPANIES AND EMPHASIZES WORKPLACE ISSUES. WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU, TO LIFE AND TIMES.

SHEILA KUEHL>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> SENATOR, THE BILL THAT WAS SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR WAS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE ORIGINAL BILL YOU AUTHORED.

SHEILA KUEHL>> THAT’S TRUE. WHEN WE FIRST STARTED OUT, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN EQUAL CONTRIBUTIONS INTO THE FUND, WHICH IS AN ASPECT OF THE STATE DISABILITY INSURANCE FUND. EQUAL CONTRIBUTIONS BY EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE WOULD HAVE COVERED UP TO TWELVE WEEKS OF PAID LEAVE. IN THE ASSEMBLY, WE AMENDED IT WITH THE HELP OF THE MODERATE DEMOCRATS IN THAT CAUCUS AND IT NOW IS ONLY SIX WEEKS, UP TO SIX WEEKS A YEAR, AND IT’S FULLY PAID BY EMPLOYEES.

VAL>> SO MY CONTRIBUTION ON THAT LITTLE “SDI” LINE ON MY PAYCHECK IS GOING TO GO UP A LITTLE BIT TO COVER THIS BENEFIT. IS THAT CORRECT?

SHEILA KUEHL>> THAT’S RIGHT. IT WILL GO UP -- NOT UNTIL 2004, AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY INTO THAT PARTICULAR FUND FOR SIX MONTHS BEFORE YOU COULD ACCESS IT. SO YOU’LL BE FULLY EMPLOYED IN 2004, NO DOUBT, AND YOU COULD ACCESS IT THE FIRST OF JULY.

JESS>> IF EMPLOYEES ARE FOOTING THE BILL, WHY IS BUSINESS SO OPPOSED TO IT?

MATT BARTOSIAK>> WELL, WE COULD HAVE A DISCUSSION ON WHETHER THE EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO FOOT THE BILL. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE STATE DISABILITY TRUST FUND NOW HAS JUST GONE FROM SEVENTY PERCENT RESERVES TO FIFTEEN PERCENT, SO NOW IT’S NEARLY BANKRUPT. I THINK WE CAN SAFELY LOOK FORWARD TO PERHAPS THE EMPLOYERS IN THE FUTURE PAYING FOR THIS. BUT WHY THE EMPLOYERS REALLY ARE AGAINST THIS RIGHT NOW IS FOR BASIC ECONOMIC REASONS, THE REASONS THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO BE IN BUSINESS AND PROVIDE JOBS. BECAUSE THERE IS A COST INVOLVED. THE COST INVOLVED, ESPECIALLY TO MEDIUM AND SMALL EMPLOYERS, IS THE OVERTIME THAT THIS IS GOING TO CAUSE --

VAL>> -- YOU MEAN WHEN A WORKER TAKES LEAVE?

MATT BARTOSIAK>> WHEN A WORKER TAKES THE TIME, THERE ARE COST CONSEQUENCES, ESPECIALLY WITH SMALL EMPLOYERS WHO DON’T HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO PICK UP THE SLACK AND WHO CAN’T AFFORD TO PERHAPS NOT REINSTATE THE PERSON BECAUSE SIX WEEKS OF TRAINING TIME IS INEFFICIENT. THERE IS GOING TO BE A COST --

SHEILA KUEHL>> -- SMALL EMPLOYERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PROTECT THOSE JOBS THOUGH. I MEAN, WE DIDN’T PUT ANYTHING --

JESS>> -- SMALL EMPLOYERS BEING THOSE WHO EMPLOY FEWER THAN FIFTY?

SHEILA KUEHL>> THAT’S CORRECT.

MATT BARTOSIAK>> SMALL EMPLOYERS ARE NOT MANDATED TO GUARANTEE THE JOB, BUT IN EFFECT, THAT’S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A DECISION THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO MAKE BECAUSE, FOR SIX WEEKS, ARE YOU GOING TO SPEND THE TIME FOR LOST PRODUCTIVITY AND PUT OUT THOSE ADS TO GET NEW PEOPLE? SMALL EMPLOYERS WILL, IN MANY CASES, BE FORCED TO LEAVE THAT JOB OPEN AND TRY TO WORK AROUND.

SHEILA KUEHL>> YOU KNOW, WE HAD A NUMBER OF BUSINESSES, THOUGH, THAT CAME TO TESTIFY FOR US. THEY WERE SMALL BUSINESSES AND MEDIUM-SIZED BUSINESSES WHO INDICATED THAT OFTEN THEY COVER THE COST THEMSELVES OF LETTING AN EMPLOYEE TAKE, YOU KNOW, A WEEK OR TWO. THE MOTHER COMES HOME FROM THE HOSPITAL AND THEY FEEL IT’S REALLY BETTER TO DO THAT THAN TO RECRUIT AND TRAIN, ETC. IN THIS WAY, THEY DON’T HAVE TO PAY INTO THE FUND AND THEY DON’T HAVE TO PAY THAT EMPLOYEE’S SALARY.

I’M NOT SAYING THAT BUSINESS IS WRONG BECAUSE THEY GET TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT IT REALLY DOES HELP MAKE CALIFORNIA A MORE ATTRACTIVE PLACE TO WORK. PEOPLE MAY BE DRAWN HERE -- I DON’T KNOW, THE COST OF HOUSING IS VERY HIGH -- BUT MAY BE DRAWN BECAUSE OF THESE PROTECTIONS. ALSO --

JESS>> -- WE ALSO KNOW ABOUT PROTECTING THIS TYPE OF LEAVE, BUT SICK LEAVE IS NOT PROTECTED. IT ISN’T MANDATED BY LAW.

MATT BARTOSIAK>> NOT AT ALL. THERE ARE RULES YOU HAVE TO OBEY IF ONE GIVES SIX LEAVE RIGHT NOW IN CALIFORNIA BY ALLOWING HALF OF IT TO BE USED FOR FAMILY MEMBERS. BUT SHEILA’S POINT ABOUT MAKING CALIFORNIA A VERY ATTRACTIVE PLACE TO WORK IS A VERY VALID POINT. BUT WE ALSO NEED A PLACE THAT’S VERY ATTRACTIVE FOR EMPLOYEES TO COME AND SETTLE AND STAY IN BUSINESS.

SHEILA KUEHL>> BUT, YOU KNOW, YOUR STATE DISABILITY INSURANCE IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ACCESS BECAUSE YOU PAY INTO IT, AND THAT’S WHAT THIS IS LIKE. THIS ISN’T A PAID LEAVE BY EMPLOYERS. THIS IS PAID FOR BY EMPLOYEES INTO THE FUND. THE SICKNESS OF YOUR RELATIVE HAS TO BE CERTIFIED BY THE EMPLOYMENT DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT JUST LIKE YOUR OWN DISABILITY. YOU HAVE TO CERTIFY THAT NO ONE ELSE IS ABLE OR AVAILABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THIS PERSON.

AND, AS WE INDICATED, THE EMPLOYER CAN REQUIRE THAT YOU TAKE UP TO TWO WEEKS OF VACATION BEFORE YOU EVEN ACCESS THIS LEAVE. SO WE WROTE IN A LOT OF THINGS THAT THE EMPLOYERS HAD ASKED US TO DO, ANTI-FRAUD PROVISIONS AND THE USE OF VACATION, AND I GUESS IT’S EASY FOR ME TO SAY THAT THIS IS A REALLY GOOD THING FOR EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW. I MEAN, WE’RE ALL HIRING STRANGERS TO TAKE CARE OF OUR PARENTS AND OUR SICK KIDS AND THAT’S AN EXPENSE TOO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE WORLD TOGETHER.

VAL>> AND RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE SHOULD REALIZE THAT WHEN A WOMAN HAS A NEW BABY AND SHE WANTS TO TAKE MATERNITY LEAVE, IT’S UNPAID UNLESS THE EMPLOYER FEELS GENEROUS, RIGHT?

SHEILA KUEHL>> UNLESS IT’S A DISABILITY.

VAL>> UNLESS IT’S A DISABILITY.

MATT BARTOSIAK>> YES. SHE CAN GET SDI IF SHE’S DISABLED.

VAL>> SO THIS WOULD NOW ALLOW A WOMAN WHO’S WORKING AND HAS A BABY TO GET PAID FIFTY PERCENT, MORE OR LESS, OF HER SALARY?

SHEILA KUEHL>> RIGHT, BUT SHE HAS TO WAIT FOR A WEEK BEFORE SHE ACCESSES THE FUND. IF SHE’S GOT TWO WEEKS VACATION BUILT UP --

VAL>> -- SHE HAS TO USE THAT FIRST.

SHEILA KUEHL>> SHE HAS TO USE THAT FIRST, AND THEN SHE CAN TAKE UP TO SIX WEEKS A YEAR.

VAL>> OKAY.

JESS>> THERE ARE REALLY SOME --

SHEILA KUEHL>> -- AND SO CAN THE DAD.

VAL>> THAT’S RIGHT. YOU CAN SAY PATERNITY LEAVE.

MATT BARTOSIAK>> BUT I HAVE TO COME IN HERE AND SAY YES TO SHEILA’S POINT ABOUT EMPLOYERS NOT PAYING FOR IT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I STILL CONTEND YOU WILL SEE AN EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF THE FUNDS.

JESS>> HAVE THEY DONE SO IN THE PAST WITH SDI?

MATT BARTOSIAK>> NO. SDI HAS ALWAYS BEEN EMPLOYEE-PAID. BUT THIS IS AN ENLARGING OF THE ALLOTTMENT, AN ENLARGING OF THE VARIED REASONS THAT PEOPLE CAN TAKE THE LEAVE. THE COST IS NOT UP FRONT TO EMPLOYERS AND CONSEQUENTLY TO EMPLOYEES BECAUSE TOO OFTEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT EMPLOYER COST, I THINK ONE CAN GET THE IDEA THAT WE’RE JUST TALKING IN A VACUUM JUST FILLED WITH EMPLOYEES.

WE’RE TALKING ABOUT JOBS, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE ABILITY TO KEEP JOBS, TO MAKE JOBS, AND THE COST IN OUR ESTIMATION IS NOT UP FRONT. IT IS THE ABILITY TO KEEP JOBS, TO HOLD JOBS, TO PRODUCE PRODUCT ON TIME AND ON AN EFFICIENT BASIS. THAT HAS REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR EMPLOYERS, BUT IT HAS REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR EMPLOYEES AS WELL TO HAVE JOBS IN CALIFORNIA.

VAL>> NOW HOW ABOUT THOSE WORKERS WHO MAY NOT HAVE KIDS OR THEY’RE NOT MARRIED OR WHATEVER, THEIR PARENTS HAVE PASSED AWAY, AND THEY’RE BEING ASKED TO PAY INTO THIS FUND AND THEY’RE VERY UNLIKELY TO USE THIS BENEFIT. DO THEY GET ANY SAY IN THE MATTER?

SHEILA KUEHL>> THEY DON’T GET ANY SAY IN THE MATTER BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT INSURANCE DOES. I MEAN, I HOPE WHEN I PAY MY CAR INSURANCE THAT I’LL NEVER HAVE TO USE IT. I MAY HAVE PAID FOR SOMEBODY ELSE’S ACCIDENT AND I DON’T GO, OH, I NEVER HAVE AN ACCIDENT, I SHOULDN’T HAVE INSURANCE. IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF SEEING IF THERE’S SOMETHING YOU NEED. PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO HAVE KIDS, SOMETIMES THEY END UP WITH THEIR SISTER’S -- YOU KNOW, A SISTER PASSES AWAY AND SUDDENLY YOU’VE GOT A NEW KID --

VAL>> -- SO YOU CAN USE NEW SIBLINGS OR SHARED SIBLINGS --

SHEILA KUEHL>> -- NO, BUT I MEAN, SHE MAY PASS AWAY AND NOW YOU MAY HAVE A DAUGHTER YOU NEVER EVEN EXPECTED.

MATT BARTOSIAK>> YOU CAN USE IT FOR PARENTS AND CHILDREN AND NEWBORN CARE. THE FACT REMAINS, YES, IT DOES RUN LIKE AN ELEMENT OF INSURANCE, BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE SUBSIDIZING SITUATIONS THAT THEY’LL NEVER BE ABLE TO TAKE THEMSELVES.

JESS>> YOU RAISED THE ISSUE OF THE BANKRUPTCY OF SDI, OR THE LIKELIHOOD IF NOT THE POSSIBILITY OF IT. DO YOU FOLKS IN SACRAMENTO HAVE CONCERN ABOUT THAT?

SHEILA KUEHL>> WELL, WE HAVE CONCERN ABOUT THE VERACITY OF IT. WITHOUT MEANING TO OFFEND MY COLLEAGUE HERE, THERE WAS THAT ASSERTION --

JESS>> -- IS THERE THE RISK OF BANKRUPTCY OR THE THREAT OF BANKRUPTCY?

SHEILA KUEHL>> THAT ASSERTION WAS MADE IN EVERY COMMITTEE. WE ASKED THEM TO PLEASE BRING US SOME NUMBERS. THEY MADE UP A BUNCH OF NUMBERS THAT WERE NOT -- I DON’T MEAN THIS GENTLEMAN MADE UP ANY NUMBERS -- THAT WERE NOT REALLY VERIFIED AT ALL BY THE ADMINISTRATION AND I DON’T THINK THAT’S THE CASE. I MEAN --

MATT BARTOSIAK>> -- THE NUMBERS I HAVE COME FROM THE EMPLOYMENT DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT THAT, FOR 2002, THE FUND RESERVES WENT FROM SEVENTY PERCENT DOWN TO FIFTEEN PERCENT.

VAL>> WE’LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT AT THAT, BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH, STATE SENATOR SHEILA KUEHL FOR BEING HERE AND ALSO MATT BARTOSIAK OF THE EMPLOYERS GROUP. THANKS SO MUCH.

MATT BARTOSIAK>> THANKS.

SHEILA KUEHL>> THANK YOU.

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JESS>> MANY OLDER AMERICANS COUNT ON CORPORATE PENSIONS TO PAY THE BILLS, BUT PATT HAS BEEN WONDERING WHERE BUSINESS SHOULD DRAW THE LINE WHEN IT COMES TO RETIRED CEO'S. IT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> I WONDER WHETHER THE MILLIONS OF RETIRED AMERICANS, AS THEY SCRIMP AND SAVE AND WONDER HOW TO PAY FOR BOTH THEIR PRESCRIPTIONS AND THEIR GROCERIES, SOMETIMES FANTASIZE ABOUT WHAT IT MUST BE LIKE TO BE JACK WELCH. SINCE HE RETIRED AS HEAD OF GENERAL ELECTRIC TWO YEARS AGO AT AGE SIXTY-FOUR, WELCH HAS BEEN PRAISED THE WORLD OVER AS A CORPORATE GENIUS. THEY'VE CALLED HIM THE TIGER WOODS OF BIG BUSINESS. WE DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE HOW BIG A GENIUS HE REALLY WAS.

NOT ONLY DID HE DO WELL BY GE STOCKHOLDERS FOR TWENTY YEARS, BUT WELCH NEGOTIATED HIMSELF A GOLDEN PARACHUTE FOR HIS GOLDEN YEARS THAT MAKES FORT KNOX LOOK LIKE TIN FOIL. IN DIVORCE PAPERS FILED BY HIS SECOND WIFE, THE WORLD LEARNED THAT GE CUSHIONED ITS OLD CHAIRMAN'S STEP INTO RETIREMENT, PAYING FOR HIS NEW YORK APARTMENT, FOR MEMBERSHIP FEES AT FIVE COUNTRY CLUBS, FOR SERVANTS AND SERVICES IN FOUR HOMES, FOR PRIME SEATS FROM WIMBLEDON TO YANKEE STADIUM.

IN THE WELCH'S NEW YORK APARTMENT, GE PAYS FOR EVERYTHING FROM THE GROCERIES TO THE GE APPLIANCES TO PREPARE THEM IN, THE DISHWASHER TO WASH THE DISHES, THE TOILET PAPER IN THE BATHROOM AND THE POSTAGE STAMPS IN THE DESK. IT EVEN MAKES SURE THERE'S A GE LIGHT BULB IN EVERY SOCKET. IT JUST BEGS THE QUESTION WHAT IS THERE FOR JACK WELCH TO SPEND HIS MILLIONS ON WHEN VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING IS PROVIDED FOR HIM?

WELCH WROTE IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL LAST WEEK THAT HE'S GIVING UP MANY OF THESE POST-RETIREMENT PERKS, BUT STILL THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION HAS BEGUN AN INFORMAL INQUIRY INTO THIS LIFETIME LOTTERY COMPENSATION SYSTEM. BECAUSE NEWS OF WELCH'S FREE RIDE FOR LIFE COMES AT A TIME WHEN CEO'S ACROSS THE NATION ARE FEELING THE BACKLASH OF SCANDALS LIKE ENRON AND TYCO INTERNATIONAL. FOR SOME RETIRING EXECUTIVE TO CRACK OPEN THE CORPORATE PIÑATA IS VERY BAD PR AT A TIME WHEN THE STOCK MARKET IS IN A TWO-YEAR STUMBLE AND THE LAST THING BUSINESS SHOULD WANT IS FOR AMERICANS TO THINK THAT EVERY TIME THEY BUY A SHARE OF STOCK, SOME OF THEIR HARD-EARNED MONEY WILL GO TO PAY FOR THE CEO'S GREENS FEES.

ALAN GREENSPAN, A MAN OF FEW WORDS, CHOSE TWO: INFECTIOUS GREED. WELL, IT'S TIME TO DEVELOP THE VACCINE.

VAL>> THEY CAME ON THE SCENE IN THE 1960'S AND CHANGED POPULAR MUSIC FOREVER, BUT THE MOST FASCINATING THING ABOUT THE GRATEFUL DEAD IS THEIR FANS. THE DEAD HEADS WERE DEVOTED FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS AND THEY STILL ARE DEVOTED TODAY.

JESS>> TOGETHER, THE GRATEFUL DEAD AND THEIR LOYAL FANS BECAME AN AMERICAN CULTURAL PHENOMENON.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> THE BAND WAS TOGETHER FOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES AND TOURED VIRTUALLY NONSTOP. DRUGS WERE A BIG PART OF THAT JOURNEY FOR BOTH THE BAND AND THE CROWDS. THAT STORY IS TOLD IN A NEW BOOK CALLED "A LONG STRANGE TRIP: THE INSIDE HISTORY OF THE GRATEFUL DEAD". THE AUTHOR IS DENNIS MCNALLY, THE OFFICIAL HISTORIAN OF THE GRATEFUL DEAD. AN HISTORIAN IS CORRECT. YOU HAVE A PHD IN HISTORY?

DENNIS MCNALLY>> ODDLY ENOUGH. I WROTE A BOOK ABOUT JACK KEROUAC AND JERRY GARCIA GREW UP IN THE SAN FRANCISCO SCENE. HE WAS THIS JUNIOR BEATNIK AT AGE FIFTEEN RUNNING AROUND NORTH BEACH, SO HE LIKED THAT AND HE SAID WHY DON'T YOU DO US? I SAID, GOOD IDEA.

VAL>> NOW WERE YOU A GRATEFUL DEAD FAN FOR A LONG TIME?

DENNIS MCNALLY>> WHEN HE ASKED ME, THAT WAS 1980 AND I'D ALREADY BEEN TO MANY SHOWS. THERE'S A CLEAR HISTORICAL CONNECTION BETWEEN THE BEAT SCENE OF THE FIFTIES AND THE GRATEFUL DEAD, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH WAS LITERALLY A MAN NAMED NEAL CASSIDY WHO WAS DEAN MORIARTY IN KEROUAC'S BOOK "ON THE ROAD" AND WHO WAS PART OF THE QZ MERRY PRANKSTER WONDERFUL BENIGN CRAZINESS THAT THE GRATEFUL DEAD WERE IN THE MIDDLE SIXTIES, SO IT ALL FIT TOGETHER.

JESS>> BUT SOME CRITICS WOULD SAY IT WASN'T EXACTLY BENIGN CRAZINESS THAT --

DENNIS MCNALLY>> -- YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE GREAT PHONY STORIES OF RECENT ERAS IS THE STATISTICAL NONSENSE THAT'S USED ABOUT LSD. THERE ARE A LOT OF BAD DRUGS OUT THERE AND I'VE WITNESSED THEM AND THEY'RE DREARY AND A DRAG AND I HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT THEM. YOU COULDN'T PROVE IT BY ME ABOUT LSD OR POT. WHAT IT DID FOR THE GRATEFUL DEAD, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT UNIQUE BOND WITH AN AUDIENCE.

WHAT ALL THAT DID FOR THE GRATEFUL DEAD WAS MAKE THEM CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE IN WHICH THE AUDIENCE WERE THEIR PARTNERS IN A QUEST. MICKEY HART PUT IT BEST WHEN HE SAID THAT THE GRATEFUL DEAD WEREN'T IN THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS, THEY WERE IN THE TRANSPORTATION BUSINESS. WE MOVE MINDS. THEY WERE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT APPROACHING MUSIC PARTICULARLY AS A SPIRITUAL ACT AND AS TRYING TO TRANSCEND EVERY NIGHT.

JESS>> THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR FANS WAS BASED ON THAT?

DENNIS MCNALLY>> EXACTLY. THROUGH THOSE ACID TESTS, THEY DECIDED THEY WANT THE ENTERTAINMENT. THE MUSIC -- WHAT THE GRATEFUL DEAD WAS WASN'T SIX GUYS UP ON STAGE BEING GOD WITH THE AUDIENCE DOWN BELOW. THE GRATEFUL DEAD WAS THE MAGIC THAT WENT ON IN THE ROOM AND GARCIA ALSO CALLED IT THE LAST GREAT AMERICAN ADVENTURE. THERE'S DEFINITELY A PRICE TO PAY FOR FREEDOM AND WE ALL KNOW THAT. I MEAN, WELCOME TO AMERICA. BUT AS FAR AS WHAT THE GRATEFUL DEAD DID, IT WAS A PRETTY BENIGN EXPERIENCE.

VAL>> NOW WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A REAL ADVANTAGE ON THE STAGE IN CREATING THIS WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE WITH THE AUDIENCE WAS A DISADVANTAGE IN THE RECORDING STUDIO, NO?

DENNIS MCNALLY>> EXACTLY. GARCIA PUT IT BEST. HE SAID MAKING MUSIC LIVE ON STAGE IS LIKE PILOTING A SHIP THROUGH A MASSIVE HURRICANE. MAKING MUSIC IN A STUDIO WAS LIKE MAKING A SHIP IN A BOTTLE. HE NEVER WAS TOO GOOD AT SHIPS IN A BOTTLE (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> TELL US SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE RECORDING STUDIO.

DENNIS MCNALLY>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD ONE GREAT EVENT IN THE RECORDING STUDIO WHERE IT WAS THE SECOND TIME. THE FIRST TIME, THEY BEHAVED THEMSELVES WHICH WAS, OF COURSE, A BIG MISTAKE FOR THEM AND THEY NEVER REPEATED IT. THE SECOND TIME, THEY WERE TOTALLY EXPERIMENTAL AND THEY CREATED KIND OF A 3-D ALBUM UNDER VERY PRIMITIVE TECHNOLOGICAL CONDITIONS CALLED "ANTHEM OF THE SUN", WHICH IS THIS FABULOUS FAILURE. I MEAN, THEY DIDN'T QUITE PULL IT OFF, BUT IT WAS BRILLIANT. WHAT THEY DID WAS TRY SORT OF AN ASSEMBLAGE, ALMOST LIKE JOHN CAGE, WITH TAPES OF LIVE SHOWS MIXED WITH STUDIO. THAT WAS AN INTERESTING EVENT.

THE THING THAT SAVED THEM WAS THE BAND. IN THE STUDIO, ODDLY ENOUGH, WAS WHEN THEY MADE "WORKINGMAN'S DEAD" WHICH WAS THEIR FIRST SUCCESS WITH THE AUDIENCE MOSTLY BECAUSE THEY WERE SO -- THEY COULDN'T CREATE, THEY COULDN'T GET CUTE ANYMORE, THEY COULDN'T EXPERIMENT, SO THEY HAD TO MAKE A STRAIGHT-AHEAD -- THEY THOUGHT OF IT AS SORT OF A MERLE HAGGARD BAKERSFIELD COUNTRY-WESTERN ALBUM. THEY WENT IN AND, INSIDE OF ABOUT THREE WEEKS, THEY MADE A PLAIN, SIMPLE, LOW-KEY WONDERFUL ALBUM WITH SONGS LIKE "RIPPLED" AND "UNCLE JOHN'S BAND" THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO FOR THIRTY YEARS SINCE.

JESS>> HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE CONTINUATION OF THE DEVOTION TO THE GRATEFUL DEAD BY THE DEAD HEADS?

DENNIS MCNALLY>> NOBODY'S MADE ANY OTHER GREAT MUSIC (LAUGHTER). YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S MADE MUSIC THAT'S REPLACED THEIR INTERESTS SINCE.

VAL>> AND COULD IT BE ALSO THAT THEY JUST TOURED FOR SO LONG AND REALLY -- THAT IT WAS RECIPROCAL, IT WAS A MUTUAL --

DENNIS MCNALLY>> -- IT WAS A TOTALLY MUTUAL THING. THAT WAS THE THING. YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THIS BOND. AGAIN, THEY JUST TREATED THE AUDIENCE LIKE THEIR PARTNERS. THE GRATEFUL DEAD, YOU KNOW, WASN'T SIX GUYS AND IT WASN'T ONE GUY. IT WAS EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM. IT WAS EXTREMELY PAINFUL, TO PUT IT MILDLY, TO LOSE JERRY. IT TOOK THE REST OF THE BAND SEVEN YEARS UNTIL THIS SUMMER, LITERALLY ALMOST SEVEN YEARS TO THE DAY SINCE JERRY DIED, THAT THEY FINALLY ALL PLAYED TOGETHER IN AN ADVERTISED FASHION. THEY HAD A BALL. THE MAGIC WAS BACK. YOU KNOW, I SAY THAT -- I MEAN, I'VE STILL CONNED THEM INTO A PAYCHECK. YOU CAN ASSUME THAT I'M PREJUDICED, BUT I'LL TELL YOU, THE AUDIENCE WAS ECSTATIC AND SO WAS THE BAND, AND THE BAND IS EVEN MORE CRITICAL THAN THE AUDIENCE.

JESS>> IN THE EARLY YEARS, AT LEAST, THERE WERE FANS WHO SIMPLY FOLLOWED THE TOUR, WHO WENT EVERYWHERE THE BAND WENT.

DENNIS MCNALLY>> YEP. SOMEBODY ASKED JERRY, YOU KNOW, ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THESE GUYS WHO GIVE THEIR WHOLE LIVES TO THE GRATEFUL DEAD? HE SAID, I DON'T KNOW, I DID (LAUGHTER). IT'S LIKE, ARE THEY HURTING ANYBODY? NO. THE OTHER THING IS, THOUGH, DEAD HEADS ARE -- THE ONE MYTH ABOUT DEAD HEADS THAT TO SOME EXTENT THE MEDIA FURTHERED WAS THE NOTION THAT ALL DEAD HEADS LIVE IN TIE DYE, LIVE IN VW MICROBUSES AND LIVE IN THE PARKING LOT. MY FAVORITE DEAD HEAD IS SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY, THE SENIOR SENATOR OF VERMONT. I HAVE GAINED A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN THE U.S. SENATE WATCHING HIM WEAR TIE DYE T-SHIRTS AND SHORTS AND DANCE ON STAGE, AND I'VE SEEN THIS.

JESS>> BUT NOT IN THE SENATE.

DENNIS MCNALLY>> NO, NOT IN THE SENATE, BUT HE TOOK US TO THE SENATE AND WE HAD A GOOD TIME (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) OH, THAT'S GREAT. DENNIS MCNALLY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF. I'M SO SORRY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GET TO THE PART ABOUT BEN AND JERRY'S AND JERRY GARCIA CHERRY WHATEVER, BUT NEXT TIME.

DENNIS MCNALLY>> WELL, IT'S GOOD ICE CREAM.

VAL>> GREAT ICE CREAM. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AGAIN, THE BOOK IS CALLED "A LONG STRANGE TRIP: THE INSIDE HISTORY OF THE GRATEFUL DEAD". THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT. CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG FOR AUDIO OF PAST PROGRAMS AND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES AND INTERVIEWS.

JESS>> AND NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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