9/30/02

LC020930

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> THE FUTURE OF CALIFORNIA’S THREE STRIKES LAW. IS IT JAMMING THE STATE’S PRISONS WITH TOO MANY PETTY CROOKS?

SUE REAMS>> IN 1994, I VOTED FOR THIS LAW. I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE FOR MURDERERS, RAPISTS, KIDNAPPERS. I NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD AFFECT MY SON.

VAL>> THEY AREN’T THE GLAMOUR SPOTS IN L.A., BUT THEY’VE PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN SHAPING THE CITY’S ATTITUDES ON POLITICS AND RACE. TONIGHT WE’LL LOOK AT WORKING CLASS SUBURBS AND SEE HOW BLUE COLLAR DREAMS HELPED CREATE A NEW REALITY FOR LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> AND THEN A MIXTURE OF MUSIC AND CULTURE THAT’S HARD TO FIND ANYWHERE ELSE BUT HERE.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> KLESMER MARIACHI. TONIGHT A LOOK AT WHAT IT IS AND WHERE IT CAME FROM.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. IT WAS PERHAPS AN UNDERSTANDABLE RESPONSE TO RISING CRIME, BUT THE THREE STRIKES LAW THAT CALIFORNIA VOTERS APPROVED MAY NOT BE THE ONE THEY REALLY WANTED. CRITICS SAY IT’S LOADING THE STATE’S PRISONS WITH TOO MANY PETTY THIEVES AND NON-VIOLENT DRUG USERS.

VAL>> NOW THE U.S. SUPREME COURT IS ABOUT TO DECIDE WHETHER THE LAW IS CONSTITUTIONAL. TONIGHT PHILIP BRUCE LOOKS AT WHY THREE STRIKES MAY BE IN BIG TROUBLE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> CALIFORNIA VOTERS DECIDED TO GET TOUGH ON REPEAT OFFENDERS WHEN THEY PASSED THE THREE STRIKES INITIATIVE BACK IN 1994. THEY WERE TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT HARDENED CRIMINALS COMMITTING NEW OFFENSES ON THEIR RELEASE FROM PRISON. UNDER THREE STRIKES, ANYONE WITH TWO PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS FOR SERIOUS OR VIOLENT CRIMES COULD WIND UP FACING A MANDATORY 25-YEAR TO LIFE SENTENCE ON A THIRD CONVICTION AND THAT THIRD TIME DIDN'T HAVE TO BE A SERIOUS OR VIOLENT CRIME. SMALL-TIME DRUG USE OR SHOPLIFTING COULD TRIGGER THE THREE STRIKES LAW AND THAT'S WHY SUE REAMS IS READY TO DO BATTLE.

SUE REAMS>> MY SON JUST ASKED ME TO BE BRAVE BECAUSE HE KNEW THE SENTENCE THAT WAS COMING, BUT IT WAS LIKE THE WORLD HAD STOPPED.

PHILIP BRUCE>> REAMS' SON, SHANE, IS SERVING A 25-YEAR TO LIFE SENTENCE FOR BEING THE LOOKOUT ON A $20 DRUG DEAL. HIS EARLIER CRIMES? STEALING FROM HIS PARENTS' HOME AND FROM A NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE TO SUPPORT HIS DRUG HABIT. AT THE TIME, SHANE WAS TWENTY YEARS OLD AND HIS MOTHER WAS THE ONE WHO TURNED HIM IN.

SUE REAMS>> I THOUGHT HE'D EVEN GET SOME SORT OF REHABILITATION IN PRISON, BUT HE DIDN'T. HE SPENT EIGHTEEN MONTHS THERE AND LEARNED MORE ABOUT DRUGS AND CRIME THERE. SO MY TOUGH LOVE DIDN'T EXACTLY HELP THE SITUATION, BUT I WAS YET TO KNOW THAT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> FIVE YEARS LATER, THERE WAS A CALL FROM THE POLICE STATION. SHANE WAS IN TROUBLE AGAIN, THIS TIME FOR STANDING BY DURING A MINOR DRUG DEAL. BUT REAMS WASN'T WORRIED.

SUE REAMS>> HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY DRUGS ON HIM AND HE TOLD ME THEY HAD TESTED HIM AND HE HAD NO DRUGS IN HIM, SO I THOUGHT IT WOULD GO AWAY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> REAMS CAME FACE TO FACE WITH REALITY SEVERAL WEEKS LATER.

SUE REAMS>> HE TOLD ME. HE SAID THEY'RE GOING TO FILE THREE STRIKES ON ME AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT. I MEAN, THAT WASN'T VIOLENT. WATCHING A DRUG SALE, HOW COULD YOU, YOU KNOW, GIVE SOMEBODY A 25-YEAR TO LIFE SENTENCE FOR WATCHING A DRUG SALE? HOW DO YOU GIVE HIM A SENTENCE LIKE THAT WHEN THAT'S A SENTENCE FOR A MURDERER. EVEN RAPE DOESN'T HOLD A SENTENCE THAT LONG. KIDNAPPING. HOW DO YOU GIVE HIM THAT KIND OF A SENTENCE WHEN HE HASN'T EVER HURT ANYBODY?

PHILIP BRUCE>> PAM MARTINEZ WONDERS THE SAME THING. SHE USED TO BE A SKI PARAMEDIC IN ASPEN. BY HER EARLY 20'S, SHE WAS DABBLING IN DRUGS.

PAM MARTINEZ>> I KIND OF GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE FAST LANE IN COLORADO. AT THAT TIME, I THOUGHT LIFE WAS ALL ABOUT A JOKE AND FUN.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HER DRUG PROBLEM GREW WORSE AND TWICE SHE WAS CONVICTED OF ROBBERY, ONCE AT A LIQUOR STORE, ANOTHER TIME AT A SEARS. NOBODY GOT HURT, BUT THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER CRIME. THE DAY AFTER SHE LEARNED HER HUSBAND WAS DYING OF LIVER CANCER, PAM MARTINEZ TOOK VALIUM AND DRANK A BOTTLE OF KAHLUA. SHE SAYS THAT AFTERNOON WAS A BLUR AND, BY THE END OF THE DAY, SHE HAD BEEN ARRESTED FOR PETTY THEFT. SUDDENLY SHE WAS A CANDIDATE FOR THREE STRIKES.

PAM MARTINEZ>> WELL, AT THAT TIME, I WASN'T REALLY WORRIED BECAUSE I'D NEVER HEARD THE STRIKE LAW AND I DIDN'T THINK I HAD DONE ANYTHING THAT SEVERE TO CONSTITUTE 25 YEARS TO LIFE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT THE COURT DIDN'T AGREE. HER SENTENCE? 25 YEARS TO LIFE.

PAM MARTINEZ>> I CAN REMEMBER RIDING BACK IN THE JAIL BUS WITH THE OTHER WOMEN AND THEY WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT SIX MONTHS IN THE COUNTY JAIL FOR THE SAME CRIME THAT I HAD COMMITTED. I WAS SO SAD THAT SOCIETY COULD OSTRACIZE ME FOR SOMETHING THIS MINOR. DEFINITELY, YOU'RE CULPABLE OF YOUR ACTIONS TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, BUT THE TIME SHOULD DEFINITELY FIT THE CRIME.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MARTINEZ SERVED SEVEN YEARS IN PRISON, BUT THEN FIVE MONTHS AGO, SHE GOT HER FREEDOM AFTER AN APPEALS COURT INTERVENED. UNDER A NEW JUDGE, SHE WAS STILL FOUND GUILTY, BUT ESCAPED A MASSIVE SENTENCE UNDER THREE STRIKES.

SUE REAMS BELIEVES THAT MANY OF THOSE WHO APPROVED THE THREE STRIKES LAW DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT WOULD BE USED.

SUE REAMS>> IN 1994, I VOTED FOR THIS LAW. I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE FOR MURDERERS, RAPISTS, KIDNAPPERS. I NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD AFFECT MY SON.

PHILIP BRUCE>> REAMS CARRIES A SPECIAL GUILT. IF SHE HADN'T TURNED IN HER SON WHEN HE STOLE FROM HER, HE WOULDN'T BE IN PRISON TODAY.

SUE REAMS>> MY SON TELLS ME NOT TO HAVE THE GUILT NOW, BUT I HAD A LOT OF GUILT AND I FELT LIKE, QUITE FRANKLY, I HAD PRETTY MUCH PUT HIM IN PRISON FOR LIFE.

JESS>> WE’RE JOINED NOW BY LAURIE LEVENSON. SHE’S A PROFESSOR AT LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL AND A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR. ARE THESE TWO CASES WE’VE SEEN REALLY THAT UNUSUAL?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> REALLY, THEY’RE NOT. WE KNOW THAT, UNDER THE STRIKES LAW, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SERIOUS VIOLENT CRIMINALS WHO ARE BEHIND BARS, BUT WE’VE ALSO LEARNED THERE ARE AT LEAST 350 PRISONERS WHO ARE BEHIND BARS. THEIR LAST CONVICTION WAS ONLY FOR PETTY OFFENSES. THEY’VE NEVER DONE ANYTHING VIOLENT. THEY’VE NEVER HURT ANYONE.

JESS>> BAD LAW?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE LAW AS A CONCEPT ISN’T BAD, BUT AS THEY CONSTRUCTED IT, HOW BROAD IT IS, IT PROBABLY IS. YOU HEAR THE VERY FOUNDERS OF THIS LAW SAYING WE NEVER INTENDED IT TO BE USED THIS WAY.

VAL>> SO TELL US WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN NOVEMBER 5 BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT? WHAT ARE THE ISSUES? WHAT ARE THEY ACTUALLY GOING TO DECIDE ON? BECAUSE SOMETIMES THEY CAN DECIDE ON A VERY NARROW THING OR SOMETHING VERY BROAD.

LAURIE LEVENSON>> THAT’S RIGHT. THE SUPREME COURT HAS TAKEN TWO CASES THAT BASICALLY RAISED THE SAME ISSUE. THEY’VE GONE UNDER THE NAME OF THE ANDRADE AND EWING CASE -- THEY’RE CASES RIGHT FROM HERE -- WHICH RAISE THE QUESTION OF WHEN YOU HAVE A GENTLEMAN LIKE ANDRADE. HERE’S A GUY WHO HAD SERVED IN THE MILITARY FOR NINE YEARS, HE HAD THREE KIDS AND HE HAD SOME PRIOR RUN-INS WITH THE LAW IN THE 1980’S.

HE HAD DONE A MARIJUANA CONVICTION, A PETTY THEFT CONVICTION AND HE HAD SOME BURGLARIES. NOBODY WAS HURT, AND HE HAD DONE ABOUT A TOTAL OF TWO AND A HALF YEARS ON THOSE CASES. AFTER THAT, HE GOES ON FOR MANY YEARS AND, YEARS LATER, HE GOES INTO A K-MART AND HE SHOPLIFTS SOME CHILDREN’S VIDEOS. YOU KNOW, “SNOW WHITE” AND “CINDERELLA”. BUT THAT BECAME HIS THIRD STRIKE AND THE COURT ENDED UP GIVING HIM BASICALLY A FIFTY-YEARS TO LIFE SENTENCE. HE’S NOT ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE UNTIL HE’S EIGHTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD.

JESS>> AND THAT’S THE ONE THE SUPREME COURT’S GOING TO HEAR?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> THAT’S THE ONE THEY’RE GOING TO HEAR TOGETHER WITH ANOTHER ONE. AND THE ISSUE YOU ASKED ABOUT, WHAT THEY’RE GOING TO ASK, IS GEE, IS THAT DISPROPORTIONATE? WE MAY HAVE A THREE STRIKES LAW, BUT ISN’T THE CONSTITUTION AND THE COURTS THE FINAL SAY? AND CAN’T THEY SAY, WELL, GIVEN THE NATURE OF THIS CASE, THE THREE STRIKES IS TOO LONG? WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL THOSE VIOLENT CRIMINALS. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A PETTY OFFENSE THAT YOU’VE BUMPED UP TO A FELONY AND THEN BUMPED UP TO THREE STRIKES, DOES THAT BECOME DISPROPORTIONAL?

VAL>> NOW IF THE --

JESS>> -- CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT. THAT’S EXACTLY THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT UNDER THE EIGHTH AMENDMENT BECAUSE THAT’S THE LIMIT. AND THE STATE IS ARGUING, WAIT A SECOND, THERE’S A RATIONAL BASIS FOR THIS LAW. THE VOTERS OVERWHELMINGLY MORE THAN SEVENTY PERCENT VOTED IN FAVOR OF THIS LAW. YOU SHOULD DEFER TO WHAT THE VOTERS THINK IS FAIR. BUT ANDRADE’S LAWYERS ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, THAT’S ONE THING, BUT THE CONSTITUTION IS ANOTHER AND IT’S BECOME CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.

VAL>> NOW IF THE SUPREME COURT SHOULD EITHER -- LET’S SAY, STRIKES IT DOWN, DOES THE WHOLE LAW GO OUT THE WINDOW AND IS NOT ON THE BOOKS AT ALL OR DOES JUST A PORTION OF IT? YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY SHOULD SAY THIS IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> I DON’T THINK THIS MEANS THE END TO THE THREE STRIKES LAW AT ALL AND PEOPLE SHOULDN’T THINK THAT. WHAT IT MEANS, THOUGH, IS THAT IN INDIVIDUAL CASES, A JUDGE CAN NOW EVALUATE AND SAY WHETHER APPLYING A THREE STRIKES IN THAT CASE IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL. AND THE STANDARD THAT WE’VE BEEN USING IS, GEE, HOW SEVERE WAS THIS CRIME? YOU KNOW, HOW SERIOUS? DID ANYONE GET HURT? WHAT DO THEY DO IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS?

YOU SEE, ANDRADE COULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THAT SEVERE OF A SENTENCE IN ANY OTHER STATE IN THE UNION. FINALLY, HOW DOES IT COMPARE TO SENTENCES FOR OTHER CRIMES HERE? WE KNOW THAT THIS TYPE OF SENTENCE IS, BY AND LARGE, RESERVED FOR PEOPLE WHO MURDER EACH OTHER. SO IT DOESN’T MEAN THE THREE STRIKES LAW AS A WHOLE WOULD NECESSARILY BE STRUCK DOWN, BUT IT DOES GIVE SOME FLEXIBILITY TO THE JUDGES IN DEALING WITH IT.

JESS>> IS THAT WHERE IT SHOULD GO, FLEXIBILITY WITH THE JUDGES, OR SHOULD WE HAVE A CLEAR RULING THAT ONLY VIOLENT OFFENSES COUNT?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> WELL, THE BIG DEBATE HERE IS, YOU KNOW, WHO SHOULD HAVE THE FINAL SAY, THE LEGISLATURE OR THE JUDGES. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, WELL, WE PASSED THE THREE STRIKES LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE JUDGES WEREN’T USING GOOD JUDGMENT HERE AND THEY WERE GIVING TOO LENIENT OF SENTENCES. ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE VOTERS DIDN’T VOTE FOR THE THREE STRIKES LAW THAT WOULD HAVE LIMITED IT TO VIOLENT OFFENSES. THEY WENT WITH THE BROADER LAW, SO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS SAYING WE SHOULD RESPECT THE VOTERS.

VAL>> REAL QUICK, DECISION IS EXPECTED WHEN?

LAURIE LEVENSON>> SOME TIME BEFORE JULY OF NEXT YEAR.

VAL>> WE GOT A WAYS TO GO. LAURIE LEVENSON FROM LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN. ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

LAURIE LEVENSON>> MY PLEASURE.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, WE WILL BEGIN A THREE-PART LOOK AT CHILDHOOD OBESITY. IT HAS BECOME A NATIONAL HEALTH CRISIS. WE’LL SEE HOW DIFFICULT IT IS FOR SOME KIDS TO SLIM DOWN.

>> YOU KNOW, THEY MAKE FUN OF ME WHEN I, YOU KNOW, THE SEAT WOULD SQUEAK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THEY’D SAY, HEY, FAT BOY, WHY ARE YOU MAKING SO MUCH NOISE? AND EVEN THE TEACHERS SEEM TO BE LIKE A LITTLE BIT LEANING TOWARDS SKINNIER PEOPLE AND I WAS FEELING THAT.

JESS>> LOS ANGELES MAY BE BEST KNOWN AS A HOME TO THE RICH AND FAMOUS, BUT IT SHOULD COME AS NO SURPRISE THAT WORKING CLASS FOLKS ARE THE ONES WHO TRULY BUILT THE CITY. TONIGHT WE’LL SPEND SOME TIME LOOKING AT THE BLUE COLLAR DREAMS THAT HELPED MAKE LOS ANGELES WHAT IT IS TODAY AND WE’LL SEE WHERE THOSE DREAMS BEGAN IN GRITTY SUBURBS FAR FROM THE GLAMOUR ZONES OF LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> OUR NEXT GUEST IS AN AUTHORITY ON THE SUBJECT. SHE’S WRITTEN A NEW BOOK CALLED “MY BLUE HEAVEN: LIFE AND POLITICS IN THE WORKING CLASS SUBURBS OF LOS ANGELES”. BECKY NICOLAIDES FOCUSES ON A TURBULENT PERIOD IN THE CITY’S HISTORY FROM 1920 TO 1965 AND SHE JOINS US NOW TO BRING SOME INSIGHT INTO THAT ERA. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE WORKING CLASS BUILDING THIS CITY, WE'RE TALKING LITERALLY BUILDING IT?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> LITERALLY. A LOT OF THE MIGRANTS WHO SETTLED IN THESE WORKING CLASS SUBURBS ACTUALLY BUILT THEIR OWN HOMES WITH THEIR OWN HANDS, SO THE COMMUNITIES, AS THEY WERE SET UP, ALLOWED FOR THEM TO DO THIS. THERE WERE FEW BUILDING REGULATIONS SO IT REALLY ALLOWED FOR A LOT OF THESE FAMILIES THAT WERE KIND OF LIVING ON THE ECONOMIC EDGE TO RELY ON SWEAT EQUITY RATHER THAN CASH WAGES OR TAKING OUT A MORTGAGE TO BECOME A HOMEOWNER.

JESS>> WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THESE BIG SPRAWLING DEVELOPMENTS. THESE WERE INDIVIDUAL PLOTS?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> THESE WERE INDIVIDUAL PLOTS. IT WAS REALLY TYPICAL FOR A FAMILY WHO MIGRATED TO THESE COMMUNITIES. PLACES LIKE SOUTH GATE, HUNTINGTON PARK, WATTS, WERE A LOT OF THE COMMUNITIES, THE TYPE OF COMMUNITIES, THAT I STUDIED IN THE BOOK. THEY WOULD TEND TO JUST BUY AN EMPTY PLOT OF LAND AND THEN BUILD IT FROM THERE FROM THE GROUND UP.

VAL>> NOW YOU SAY THAT HOME OWNERSHIP AFFECTED POLITICS. IT ALSO, YOU SAY, CREATED RACIAL DISCORD, IT CREATED THE NEW RIGHT, IT CREATED SECESSIONIST IMPULSES. HOW DOES HOME OWNERSHIP TRIGGER ALL THOSE THINGS?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> WELL, IT'S A KIND OF LONG AND SOMEWHAT COMPLEX STORY AND IT SORT OF GOES THROUGH DIFFERENT PERMUTATIONS OVER THE COURSE OF THESE YEARS FROM 1920 TO THE 60'S. BUT IN THE EARLY YEARS, IN THE 20'S AND THE 1930'S, THERE WAS A LOT OF POLITICAL CONFLICT IN THESE COMMUNITIES OVER DEVELOPMENT AND OVER TAXATION, AND BECAUSE THESE --

JESS>> -- AND ALSO OVER RACE?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> NOT YET. IN THE EARLY YEARS, POLITICALLY, THAT WASN'T REALLY AN ISSUE YET. IT WOULD REALLY TURN INTO ONE MORE IN THE POST WAR ERA, THE POST WORLD WAR II ERA. BUT IN THE EARLY YEARS, THESE FOLKS WERE STRUGGLING SO HARD AND THEY WERE DOING AS MUCH AS THEY COULD TO SORT OF MINIMIZE THEIR DEPENDENCE ON CASH INCOME THROUGH THINGS LIKE BUILDING THEIR HOMES, GROWING CHICKENS AND VEGETABLES IN THEIR BACK YARD AND THIS SORT OF THING. SO THEIR WHOLE GOAL WAS, AGAIN, TO TRY AND MINIMIZE THE DEPENDENCE ON CASH.

WHEN CERTAIN INTERESTS IN THESE SMALL COMMUNITIES CAME IN AND TRIED TO DEVELOP THESE TOWNS, THAT WOULD MEAN A HIGHER TAX BILL, SO THEY ENDED UP FIGHTING REALLY HARD AGAINST THOSE KINDS OF EFFORTS. YOU SEE THE KIND OF EARLY EXAMPLES OF THAT SORT OF TAX REVOLT MENTALITY AMONG THESE WHITE HOMEOWNERS.

VAL>> AND THEY WERE ALL WHITE AT THAT TIME?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> THEY WERE ALL WHITE, AT LEAST IN THE TOWNS THAT I LOOKED AT AND FOCUSED ON MOST THAT WERE EAST OF ALAMEDA STREET WHICH BECAME A KIND OF RACIAL DIVIDING LINE. THESE WERE ALMOST A HUNDRED PERCENT WHITE COMMUNITIES. SO THAT HOMEOWNER STATUS WAS REALLY CRITICAL IN DEFINING HOW THEY WERE ASSERTING THEMSELVES POLITICALLY. WHEN YOU MOVE INTO THE POST WAR PERIOD, THE SORT OF DEMOGRAPHY OF SOUTHERN LOS ANGELES REALLY BEGINS TO CHANGE. THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS GROWING AND IT'S GROWING FURTHER AND FURTHER SOUTH, BECOMING MUCH MORE OF A PALPABLE PRESENCE IN THOSE AREAS WEST OF THAT DIVIDING LINE, ESPECIALLY WHEN --

VAL>> -- IS THIS WHEN RESTRICTED HOUSING COMES IN?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> RACE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS, THAT'S IT. GOOD QUESTION, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN IN VERY WIDESPREAD USE AND LEGAL UP UNTIL 1948 WHEN THE SUPREME COURT WOULD DECLARE THEM ILLEGAL. SO AT THAT POINT, THESE FAMILIES DIDN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF EASY MECHANISM WRITTEN INTO THEIR HOUSE DEEDS THAT WOULD KEEP THESE COMMUNITIES WHITE.

JESS>> IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH THIS WAS A COMBUSTIBLE COMBINATION. YOU HAVE THESE PEOPLE WHO SOME DEMOGRAPHERS WOULD CALL IN THE STREET JARGON "REDNECKS" AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS MOVING IN AND YOU ACTUALLY ATTRIBUTE SOME OF THE EMOTIONS AND THE PASSION IN THE WATTS RIOTS TO THIS MOVEMENT IN YOUR BOOK?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> I DO, BECAUSE YOU SEE A SORT OF SERIES OF TENSIONS AND CONFLICTS BUILDING UP IN THE 50'S AND ESPECIALLY EARLY IN THE 1960'S. I MEAN, IT WAS VERY INTENSE IN TERMS OF CONFLICTS OVER INTEGRATION. IT'S A STORY THAT A LOT OF ANGELENOS DON'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT. WHAT I FOUND HAPPENING, WITH THAT SUPREME COURT CASE AND WITH THE OLDER WAYS THAT THEY COULD MAINTAIN RACIAL SEGREGATION SORT OF NOW FADING AWAY AND WITH THE GROWTH OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN THE 1950'S AND EARLY 60'S IN LOS ANGELES, THESE WHITE SUBURBANITES REALLY BEGAN FEELING THE PRESSURE OF THAT AND THEY BEGAN MOBILIZING IN RESISTANCE TO THAT.

THERE WAS ACTUALLY A VERY IMPORTANT COURT CASE THAT PITTED JORDAN HIGH IN WATTS VERSUS SOUTH GATE HIGH IN SOUTH GATE, TRYING TO INTEGRATE THOSE TWO VERY, VERY SEGREGATED SCHOOLS. THERE WAS A VERY STRONG ATTEMPT BY THESE WHITE HOMEOWNERS TO RESIST THAT KIND OF INTEGRATION OF SCHOOLS, OF HOUSING, OF PUBLIC FACILITIES FROM HAPPENING.

VAL>> WHAT DID THE COURT DECIDE?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> YOU KNOW, IT WENT THROUGH ALMOST LIKE TWENTY YEARS. THE CASE WAS FIRST BROUGHT IN 1963 AND I THINK IT SORT OF FADED AWAY NOT TOO LONG AGO. IT ACTUALLY DIDN'T RESOLVE VERY MUCH, BUT IT ACTUALLY DID BECOME THE BASIS FOR BUSING WITHIN THE L.A. UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT. SO IT WAS A VERY VOLATILE KIND OF RACIAL POLITICS THAT WAS PLAYING ITSELF OUT AND THIS IS LIKE 1963 AND 1964. SO WHEN YOU SEE THE KIND OF TEXTURE OF THAT LOCAL CONFLICT TAKING PLACE, IT'S REALLY NO SURPRISE THAT THE WATTS RIOTS EXPLODED WHEN THEY DID.

JESS>> YOU ALSO SAY THAT THIS WAS THE BEGINNING OF FAR RIGHT POLITICS?

BECKY NICOLAIDES>> RIGHT. IN THAT KIND OF ANTI-TAX MENTALITY AND THE SORT OF RACIALIZED POLITICS, AND THESE WERE MOSTLY REGISTERED DEMOCRATS, BUT THEY'RE THE ONES THAT WOULD REALLY SWITCH OVER TO THE REPUBLICAN COLUMN.

VAL>> WELL, BECKY NICOLAIDES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING SOME INSIGHT INTO A NOT, YOU'RE RIGHT, NOT VERY MUCH APPRECIATED CHAPTER IN OUR HISTORY. THE BOOK, AGAIN, IS CALLED "MY BLUE HEAVEN: LIFE AND POLITICS IN THE WORKING CLASS SUBURBS OF LOS ANGELES". THANKS.

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VAL>> WELL, AS YOU JUST HEARD, LOS ANGELES HAS BEEN SHAPED BY THE MANY CLASHES OF MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES. NOW A LOOK AT HOW PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT WALKS OF LIFE CAN GET ALONG AND SOMETIMES MAKE BEAUTIFUL MUSIC TOGETHER.

JESS>> WE'RE ABOUT TO INTRODUCE YOU TO A MELDING OF MUSICAL CULTURES THAT SEEM A BIT ODD AT FIRST, BUT AS JEFFREY KAYE TELLS US, KLESMER MARIACHI SOUNDS LIKE AMERICA.

JEFFREY KAYE>> PLAZA DE LA RAZA IN EAST LOS ANGELES IS A COMMON GATHERING PLACE FOR MARIACHI MUSICIANS, BUT IN RECENT YEARS PERFORMERS OF THE MEXICAN MUSIC HAVE COME HERE TO REHEARSE FOR AN UNCOMMON COLLABORATION: TO PERFORM WITH PLAYERS OF KLEZMER, THE MUSIC OF YIDDISH-SPEAKING EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS. BOTH KLEZMER AND MARIACHI ARE THE FOLK MUSIC OF CELEBRATION PLAYED AT WEDDINGS, HOLIDAYS AND OTHER OCCASIONS. VIOLINISTS FROM EACH OF THESE BANDS, MARIACHI SOL DE AMERICA AND ELLIS ISLAND, SAY THEIR PARTNERSHIP HAS MEANING BEYOND ANY ONE PERFORMANCE.

MIAMON MILLER>> MORE IMPORTANT THAN PERHAPS THE MUSIC WORKING TOGETHER, BECAUSE I THINK WE’RE KIND OF FORCING IT TO WORK TOGETHER, IS JUST GETTING GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO WOULDN’T NORMALLY PLAY TOGETHER INVOLVED WITH EACH OTHER’S MUSIC AND, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, WITH EACH OTHER’S CULTURE. THAT’S PROBABLY A MORE MEANINGFUL RESULT OF ALL OF THIS THAN WHETHER IT WORKS MUSICALLY OR NOT. MUSICALLY, WE’RE GOING TO MAKE IT WORK OUT.

ADAM RAMIREZ>> A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL SAY IT, MAN, WE’RE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS UNDER GOD. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME. IT MAKES ME FEEL REAL GOOD INSIDE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> MARIACHI IS THE NATIONAL SOUND OF MEXICO. THE CLASSIC MARIACHI TUNE, MARCH OF ZACATECAS, CELEBRATES A VICTORY OF FIGHTERS IN THE MEXICAN REVOLUTION.

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JEFFREY KAYE>> SCHOLARS DISAGREE ON THE MEANING OF THE WORD "MARIACHI". THE MUSIC HAS NATIVE ROOTS AND DRAWS FROM SPANISH, FRENCH, GERMAN AND AFRICAN INFLUENCES. MARIACHI GROUPS FEATURE STRINGED INSTRUMENTS DISTINCT TO THE MUSIC. THEY INCLUDE THE HIGH-PITCHED VIHUELA WHICH ERIC JIMENEZ PLAYS.

ERIC JIMENEZ>> AND YOU CAN SEE THE BACK. IT'S KIND OF LIKE AN ARMADILLO.

JEFFREY KAYE>> THE DISTINCTIVE STRUM OF THE VIHUELA HELPS DEFINE MARIACHI.

ERIC JIMENEZ>> YOU CAN'T COPY THE SOUND.

JEFFREY KAYE>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

ERIC JIMENEZ>> YOU CAN GET DRUMS AND BEAT THE DRUMS. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE SAME BECAUSE OF THE PITCH OF THIS INSTRUMENT. IT'S REALLY HIGH, REALLY HAPPY.

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JEFFREY KAYE>> ANOTHER CHARACTERISTIC OF MARIACHI MUSIC IS HOW THE PERFORMERS PLAY IN DISCIPLINED UNISON.

MIAMON MILLER>> THEY'VE GOT TO BE IN TIME, EVERYBODY. THAT'S WHAT DEFINES A GROUP, TOGETHERNESS. WE REHEARSE A LOT, ENDING AND STARTING TOGETHER, EVERYTHING. VERY IMPORTANT

BARRY FISHER>> A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE MARIACHI, ESPECIALLY LIKE IN THE STRING SECTIONS OF THE KLEZMER, IN THE KLEZMER EVERYBODY IS DOING KIND OF A VERSION OF THE MELODY WHERE YOU GUYS ARE REALLY TIGHT TOGETHER. YOUR BOWINGS ARE TOGETHER FOR THE MARIACHI THEMES AND EVERYTHING IS -- ALL THE ADORNMENTS ARE THERE, ALL THE ORNAMENTATIONS, EVERYTHING IS TOGETHER. WITH US, WE’RE NOT LIKE THAT. IT’S EVEN HARD FOR US TO PRACTICE THAT WAY.

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JEFFREY KAYE>> THE WORD “KLEZMER” MEANS MUSICIAN IN YIDDISH, THE LANGUAGE OF CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS. KLEZMER MUSIC IS CENTURIES OLD AND BLENDS INFLUENCES OF CULTURES WHERE JEWS LIVED EITHER BY CHOICE OR BY FORCE.

MIAMON MILLER>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CENTRAL AND EAST EUROPE, FORMER SOVIET UNION AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MUSIC THAT JEWISH MUSICIANS WOULD PLAY FOR NOT ONLY JEWS, BUT THERE WAS ALWAYS A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP IN MORE RURAL PLACES BETWEEN JEWISH AND GYPSY MUSICIANS.

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JEFFREY KAYE>> THE YIDDISH CULTURE WAS DECIMATED BY THE HOLOCAUST AND, ALTHOUGH IMMIGRANTS TO THE U.S. BROUGHT KLESMER WITH THEM, THEIR CHILDREN WERE MORE INTERESTED IN AMERICAN THAN YIDDISH ENTERTAINMENT, AS MUSICIAN AARON SHIFFRIN REMEMBERS.

AARON SHIFFRIN>> THEY WENT TO BROADWAY. THEY WENT TO TIMES SQUARE. WE HAD OUR OWN BROADWAY ON SECOND AVENUE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> THE YIDDISH THEATER.

AARON SHIFFRIN>> YEAH. THE OLD PEOPLE LOVED THE YIDDISH THEATER.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BUT NOT THE YOUNG PEOPLE?

AARON SHIFFRIN>> NO.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BUT SINCE THE 70'S, THERE'S BEEN A REVIVAL OF KLESMER MUSIC.

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JEFFREY KAYE>> THE KLEZMER AND MARIACHI PLAYERS FOUND COMMONALITY IN THE IMMIGRANT EXPERIENCE. ONE YIDDISH SONG DESCRIBES A YOUNG WOMAN FROM THE OLD COUNTRY WORKING FOR MEAGER WAGES IN A GARMENT FACTORY. IN YIDDISH, THE SONG IS GREENA COUSINA, OR GREENHORN COUSIN.

>> OH, YOU MEAN LIKE, GREEN, NOT KNOWING ANYTHING.

BARRY FISHER>> FROM THE COUNTRYSIDE. FROM THE OLD -- YOU KNOW, HAS NEVER BEEN TO A BIG CITY, OR EVEN A SMALL CITY.

>> THIS IS GREAT, MAN. THIS IS GREAT.

[FILM CLIP]

JEFFREY KAYE>> A MARIACHI STANDARD PAID HOMAGE TO THE MEXICAN CITY OF GUADALAJARA IN JALISCO, THE STATE WHERE THE MUSIC WAS BORN.

[FILM CLIP]

JEFFREY KAYE>. A KLESMER CLASSIC PINED FOR RUMANIA.

[FILM CLIP]

JEFFREY KAYE>> IN THE END, THE MUSICAL STYLES MESHED.

[FILM CLIP]

JEFFREY KAYE>> ONE NUMBER THAT DID WORK TOGETHER WAS ONE THEY HAD PRACTICED SO HARD IN YIDDISH AND IN SPANISH, "WE ARE ALL BROTHERS" IN ENGLISH.

[FILM CLIP]

JEFFREY KAYE>> AND AS THE ORGANIZERS HOPED FROM THE BEGINNING, IT LEFT THEM DANCING IN THE AISLES.

JESS>> KLESMER MARIACHI WAS CONCEIVED FOUR YEARS AGO AT YIDDISHKAYT, AN L.A. FESTIVAL CELEBRATING YIDDISH CULTURE. YIDDISHKAYT RETURNS THIS SATURDAY AND INCLUDES WORKSHOPS ON KLESMER MARIACHI AND A PERFORMANCE OF THIS YEAR'S CROSS-CULTURAL EXPERIMENT -- YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS -- HIP-HOP KLESMER (LAUGHTER). FOR MORE INFORMATION, GO TO YIDDISHKAYTLA.ORG.

VAL>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING. TAKE CARE AND WE'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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