10/4/02

LC02104

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> FEDERAL SCREENERS ARE FINALLY ARRIVING AT THE NATION’S AIRPORTS, BUT IT MAY TAKE A RETIRED NAVY ADMIRAL TO FIX THE SECURITY PROBLEMS AT LAX.

DAVID STONE>> THERE IS DEFINITELY A MENTALITY HERE THAT, HEY, THIS IS A WAR ON TERRORISM AND NOT A TIME TO LOOK AT THE EASIEST OR WHAT MIGHT BE THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY.

VAL>> IT’S A COMPELLING LOOK AT A GRIM PART OF AMERICA’S HISTORY, A PHOTOGRAPHIC RECORD OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN LIFE IN THE UNITED STATES. WE’LL MEET THE TWO AUTHORS OF A STUNNING NEW BOOK THAT COULD HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON AMERICA’S ATTITUDES ABOUT RACE.

JESS>> AND THEN FROM STILL PICTURES TO MASTERPIECES AT THE MOVIES.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> WE’LL DISCUSS THE FINE ART OF FILM EDITING WITH A HIGHLY-ACCLAIMED AUTHOR. HE HAS JUST WRITTEN ABOUT ONE OF THE LEGENDS OF HOLLYWOOD.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. THIS WEEK, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GOT ITS FIRST TASTE OF WHAT AIRPORT SECURITY WILL LOOK LIKE IN THE POST 9/11 WORD. NEWLY-HIRED FEDERAL SCREENERS MANNED THEIR POSTS AT AIRPORTS IN BURBANK AND PALM SPRINGS, AND NEXT MONTH LAX WILL EXPERIENCE ITS OWN CHANGING OF THE GUARD.

VAL>> IT’S ALL PART OF THE GRAND PLAN TO FEDERALIZE AIRPORT SECURITY AND ELIMINATE SOME OF THE DANGEROUS GAPS. AT LAX, THE MAN IN CHARGE IS A FORMER NAVY ADMIRAL AND, AS JEFFREY KAYE REPORTS, EVEN ON LAND HE RUNS A TIGHT SHIP.

JEFFREY KAYE>> AT LAX, AS AT THE NATION’S 428 OTHER AIRPORTS, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS TAKING OVER SECURITY. BY NOVEMBER 19, ALL SCREENERS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FEDERAL EMPLOYEES. BY THE END OF THE YEAR, ALL LUGGAGE WILL BE REQUIRED TO PASS THROUGH EQUIPMENT DESIGNED TO CHECK FOR EXPLOSIVES. THE CHALLENGES ARE ENORMOUS. MANY OF THE NATION’S AIRPORT EXECUTIVES HAVE CALLED THE DEADLINES UNREALISTIC. BUT AT LAX, THE NEW FEDERAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, DAVID STONE, A FORMER NAVY ADMIRAL, IS CONFIDENT HE’LL MEET THE FEDERAL MANDATES.

DAVID STONE>> THE DIFFERENCE IS VERY MUCH A SENSE OF URGENCY. THERE IS DEFINITELY A MENTALITY HERE THAT, HEY, THIS IS A WAR ON TERRORISM AND NOT A TIME TO LOOK AT THE EASIEST PATH. SO THE GAME PLAN HAS BEEN WRITTEN HERE AND ENDORSED BY THE AIRPORT, THE AIRLINES, MY FEDERAL SECURITY DIRECTOR TEAM, THAT WE NEED TO EXECUTE THIS. MY POSITION IS THAT WE HAVE A GOOD PLAN TO EXECUTE TO MEET THE DEADLINES.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BY THE END OF THE YEAR, STONE WANTS TO INSTALL AS MANY AS FORTY EXPLOSIVE DETECTION DEVICES, MILLION DOLLAR X-RAY MACHINES THE SIZE OF MINIVANS. RIGHT NOW THERE ARE ONLY FOURTEEN AT THE AIRPORT. HE ALSO WANTS ABOUT 250 MACHINES THAT CAN DETECT TRACE AMOUNTS OF EXPLOSIVE COMPOUNDS. THAT'S FOUR TIMES AS MANY AS LAX HAS NOW. THOSE MACHINES ARE SMALLER AND CHEAPER. BUT FINAL PLANS AND BUDGETS TO BUY ALL THE NEW EQUIPMENT STILL HAVE TO BE WORKED OUT.

DAVID STONE>> I SEE THAT AS THE AREA THAT IS OF MOST CONCERN TO ME. IF I GET THE MONEY AND THE PROGRAM IS EXECUTED THE WAY WE PLAN ON EXECUTING IT HERE AT LAX, WE FULLY INTEND ON MEETING THE DECEMBER 31 DEADLINE.

>> YOU HAVE A CELL PHONE OR PAGER OR ANYTHING ON YOU?

>> NO.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BETWEEN NOW AND MID-NOVEMBER, PRIVATE CONTRACTORS HIRED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MUST RECRUIT, HIRE AND TRAIN SOME 2,000 SCREENERS FOR LAX. OTHER AIRPORTS HAVE HAD DIFFICULTY MEETING THE HIRING CHALLENGE. IN LOS ANGELES, UNIONS REPRESENTING THE CURRENT WORKFORCE HAVE CAMPAIGNED TO HAVE SCREENERS KEEP THEIR JOBS, BUT MANY WILL BE OUT OF LUCK SINCE THE NEW LAW REQUIRES THAT ALL FEDERAL SCREENERS BE U.S. CITIZENS PROFICIENT IN ENGLISH. STONE SAYS HE'LL TRY TO KEEP AS MANY SCREENERS AS POSSIBLE.

DAVID STONE>> WE'RE VERY KEEN TO CAPTURE AS MANY OF THESE CURRENT SCREENERS AS WE CAN, BUT AS YOU POINTED OUT, SOMETHING IN THE AREA OF FORTY PERCENT ARE NOT U.S. CITIZENS. SO WE'RE ALSO ATTEMPTING TO HELP THEM AS BEST WE CAN TO UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS TO BECOME A U.S. CITIZEN.

JEFFREY KAYE>> STONE IS AWARE OF CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT THE STATE OF SECURITY AT LAX. EARLIER THIS YEAR, SCREENERS FAILED TO DETECT FORTY-ONE PERCENT OF FIREARMS PACKED IN BAGS FOR A TEST. AND ON JULY 4, A GUNMAN KILLED TWO PEOPLE AND WOUNDED OTHERS BEFORE HE WAS SHOT DEAD. STONE SAYS LAX SECURITY HAS BEEN BEEFED UP RECENTLY, BUT THE LAPSES UNDERSCORE SERIOUS PROBLEMS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT, ACCORDING TO AMY ZEGART, A SECURITY EXPERT AT UCLA. ONE IS A QUESTION OF RESPONSIBILITY.

AMY ZEGART>> WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME WHO'S IN CHARGE. IS THERE ONE PERSON WHO CAN GIVE THE ORDERS THAT AIRPORT POLICE WILL FOLLOW? THAT LAPD WILL FOLLOW? THAT THE FBI WILL FOLLOW? I THINK THE ANSWER IS NO. SO WE WERE VERY FORTUNATE, I THINK, ON JULY 4 THAT WE HAD EL AL BECAUSE, HAD THE SHOOTING BEEN AT A DOMESTIC AIRLINE, IT COULD HAVE TAKEN QUITE A BIT OF TIME FOR THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO GET INTO PLACE. EVEN THEN, IT WOULDN'T BE CLEAR WHO WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> ANOTHER PROBLEM EXPOSED BY THE JULY 4 SHOOTING, SAYS ZEGART, IS SAFETY FOR PASSENGERS BEFORE THEY GET TO SECURITY POINTS. LOS ANGELES OFFICIALS HAVE PROPOSED TO WIDEN THE SECURITY PERIMETER. ZEGART IS NOT IMPRESSED.

AMY ZEGART>> AND MY RESPONSE TO THAT IS THAT WE COULD MOVE THE SECURITY PERIMETER TO IOWA AND IT WOULDN'T MAKE LAX MORE SECURE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> WHY NOT?

AMY ZEGART>> BECAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN APPROACH PASSENGERS AT AN AIRPORT CHECK-IN THAT, IF THEY WANTED TO, THEY COULD DO DAMAGE. YOU'RE JUST MOVING THE TARGET. YOU'RE NOT ELIMINATING IT.

JEFFREY KAYE>> STONE SAYS HE IS COMMITTED TO REDUCING CROWDS AND BOTTLENECKS AT THE AIRPORT. HE ALSO SAYS HAVING VARIOUS AGENCIES WITH SECURITY RESPONSIBILITIES AT LAX IS NOT A PROBLEM.

JEFFREY KAYE>> WHO'S IN CHARGE?

DAVID STONE>> I MAKE IT VERY CLEAR WHEN I CALL ON THE MAYOR, WITH THE OFFICIALS HERE AT LOS ANGELES WORLD AIRPORT, THE AIRPORT POLICE, THE FBI, THAT I HAVE AS MY CHARTER TO BE THE COORDINATOR FOR SECURITY AT LAX. SO I SEE MY JOB AS IDENTIFYING GAPS AND VULNERABILITIES AND THEN WORKING WITH ALL OF THESE AGENCIES TO FILL THESE GAPS.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BUT SECURITY EXPERT ZEGART IS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT SHE SEES OUTSIDE THE AIRPORT. SHE SAYS GENERALS FIGHT THE LAST WAR, THAT THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS HAVE CAUSED AN INORDINATE DEGREE OF ATTENTION TO AVIATION.

AMY ZEGART>> THE REALITY IS, I THINK, AIRPORT SECURITY IS THE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES. WHAT KEEPS ME AWAKE AT NIGHT IS NOT LAX. I GO TO LAX ALL THE TIME. I'M GOING THERE NEXT WEEK. WHAT KEEPS ME AWAKE AT NIGHT ARE THINGS LIKE THE PORT, DIRTY BOMBS AND BIOTERRORISM. THOSE KINDS OF THREATS, NOT AVIATION SECURITY, ARE MORE LIKELY, IN MY OPINION, IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE THE NATURE OF TERRORISM IS TO STRIKE AT OUR VULNERABILITIES. SO YOU PLUG ONE HOLE AT LAX AND ANOTHER ONE IS EXPOSED.

JEFFREY KAYE>> AS FOR LAX, OFFICIALS HOPE NOT ONLY TO IMPROVE SECURITY, BUT TO IMPROVE EASE OF TRAVEL FOR PASSENGERS. THIS IS JEFFREY KAYE REPORTING FOR LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> THOSE NEW FEDERAL SCREENERS WILL BE EARNING CONSIDERABLY MORE THAN THE PEOPLE WHO’VE BEEN DOING THE JOB. THEY’LL MAKE UP TO $40,000 A YEAR, AND THAT COMPARES TO THE MINIMUM WAGE PAID TO MOST OF THE SCREENERS WHO NOW WORK FOR PRIVATE SECURITY FIRMS.

VAL>> MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, THE GREAT DEBATE. WE’LL HAVE EXTENDED COVERAGE OF THE TELEVISED MATCH-UP BETWEEN GRAY DAVIS AND BILL SIMON. THEY’LL MEET FACE TO FACE FOR THE FIRST, AND MAYBE THE LAST, MAJOR DEBATE AND WE’LL HAVE THE HIGHLIGHTS MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> THE STORY OF AMERICA IS SO BROAD THAT IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO CAPTURE IT WITH A FEW IMAGES, BUT TONIGHT YOU’RE ABOUT TO SEE PART OF THAT STORY TOLD THROUGH SOME REMARKABLE PHOTOGRAPHS. THEY OPEN ON A GRIM CHAPTER FROM AMERICA’S PAST, THE ENSLAVEMENT AND PERSECUTION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS. BUT THE STORY IS ALSO ONE OF FREEDOM, FREEDOM PAID FOR IN BLOOD.

VAL>> IN FACT, “FREEDOM” IS THE TITLE OF THE COMPELLING NEW BOOK THAT FEATURES THE PICTURES YOU JUST SAW AND THERE ARE MANY MORE PHOTOGRAPHS INSIDE THAT WE COULD NEVER SHOW YOU HERE. THE PHOTOGRAPHIC JOURNEY BEGINS IN THE EARLY 1800’S AND GOES THROUGH THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. TONIGHT THE TWO AUTHORS OF “FREEDOM” ARE HERE, MANNING MARABLE AND LEITH MULLINGS. THEY HAVE SOME OF THE STORIES BEHIND THE PICTURES THAT YOU’VE SEEN. WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU, TO LIFE AND TIMES.

MANNING MARABLE>> THANK YOU.

LEITH MULLINGS>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

JESS>> THIS IS A REMARKABLE BOOK AND A REMARKABLE ACCOMPLISHMENT. 650 PHOTOGRAPHS?

MANNING MARABLE>> 512 PAGES, IT TOOK ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF TO DO.

VAL>> NOW WHY DID YOU THINK IT WAS NECESSARY? BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY BOOKS ON THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY.

MANNING MARABLE>> WELL, WHAT MAKES THIS BOOK UNIQUE IS THAT IT’S NOT JUST ON THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. THE HISTORY OF AMERICA IS REALLY FOUND IN THE WORD FREEDOM. THERE’S A STORY OF FREEDOM EVERYBODY KNOWS BECAUSE WE ARE TAUGHT IT FROM ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ON UP. THAT IS, THAT THE PURITANS CAME TO NEW ENGLAND SEEKING RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, THE CATHOLICS TO MARYLAND, THE QUAKERS TO PENNSYLVANIA, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE PROMISES LIFE, LIBERTY AND HAPPINESS. YET FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO FOUGHT AND DIED FOR THE FREEDOM OF THIS COUNTRY, FOR DEMOCRACY, WE DID NOT SHARE IN THAT FREEDOM.

JESS>> AND THE SLAVE TRADE WAS THE ANTITHESIS OF FREEDOM.

MANNING MARABLE>> IN MANY REAL WAYS, YES.

LEITH MULLINGS>> AND SO AFRICAN-AMERICANS ACTUALLY DEVELOPED A DIFFERENT NARRATIVE OF FREEDOM, ONE THAT WAS IN FACT MORE INCLUSIVE THAN THE TRADITIONAL AMERICAN NARRATIVE OF FREEDOM. SO THE FREEDOM FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS STRESSED GROUP JUSTICE AS OPPOSED TO INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS. IT WAS A COLLECTIVE CONCEPT OF FREEDOM. AFRICAN-AMERICANS DEVELOPED A STRUGGLE AROUND FREEDOM TO BE COMPENSATED FOR THEIR LABOR, FREEDOM TO GET AN EDUCATION, FREEDOM TO HAVE FAMILIES BECAUSE THESE ARE THINGS THAT THEY WERE NOT GRANTED.

VAL>> NOW SOME OF THE PICTURES ARE VERY DISTURBING. I DO WANT TO JUST WARN OUR VIEWERS THAT THE NEXT ONE IS IN THAT CATEGORY. THIS IS FROM A LYNCHING THAT HAPPENED IN INDIANA.

JESS>> NOT IN THE DEEP SOUTH, BUT IN INDIANA?

MANNING MARABLE>> THAT’S RIGHT. PER CAPITA, THERE WAS A LARGER PERCENTAGE OF KLANSMEN IN THE 1920’S AND 1930’S IN INDIANA THAN IN ANY OTHER STATE. YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT, BETWEEN 1880 TO ABOUT 1930, 5,000 AFRICAN-AMERICANS WERE LYNCHED IN THIS COUNTRY. THIS IS A SHAMEFUL PART OF OUR HISTORY, BUT WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT IT IS NOT THE SHOCK VALUE OF THE PHOTO, BUT THE STRUGGLE OF WOMEN AND MEN OF UNCOMMON COURAGE WHO FOUGHT TO NOT SIMPLY GAIN THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS, BUT TO REDEFINE THE BOUNDARIES OF DEMOCRACY FOR ALL AMERICANS TO BENEFIT FROM.

VAL>> AND, OF COURSE, ONE OF THOSE WOMEN IS ROSA PARKS AND SHE IS PART OF YOUR BOOK. WE HAVE A PICTURE HERE OF HER AFTER SHE WAS ARRESTED OR WHILE SHE IS BEING ARRESTED, IS THAT CORRECT?

MANNING MARABLE>> THAT’S RIGHT.

JESS>> ROSA PARKS HAS BEEN MUCH IN THE NEWS BECAUSE OF THE CONFLICT OVER THE MOVIE “BARBERSHOP” (LAUGHTER). THERE WAS SOME SUGGESTION THAT THE ONLY THING ROSA PARKS DID WAS TO SIT DOWN.

LEITH MULLINGS>> WELL, HARDLY, BECAUSE SHE WAS ALSO AN ACTIVIST WITH THE NAACP --

JESS>> -- AND HAD BEEN EVEN BEFORE.

LEITH MULLINGS>> AND HAD BEEN FOR MANY YEARS BEFORE SHE SAT DOWN ON THE BUS. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE IN THIS BOOK THAT WE’RE VERY PROUD OF IS THAT WE REPRESENT THE STRUGGLES OF WOMEN AS WELL AS MEN, OF ORDINARY PEOPLE AS WELL AS THE ICONIC PEOPLE WHO YOU HEAR ABOUT ALL THE TIME. SO IF YOU LOOK THROUGH THE PHOTOS, WE NOT ONLY HAVE MARTIN LUTHER KING AND MALCOLM X, BUT WE HAVE WORKERS, WE HAVE ORDINARY MEN AND WOMEN. ONE OF MY FAVORITE PHOTOS IS OF THE WOMAN WHO IS WALKING DURING THE MONTGOMERY BUS BOYCOTT WHO IS OBVIOUSLY A WOMAN WALKING TO WORK AND YOU GET A SENSE OF THE PRICE THAT ORDINARY MEN AND WOMEN PAID IN THE STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM.

JESS>> THIS IS A WOMAN WHO WAS KNOCKED DOWN BY FIRE HOSES DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT?

MANNING MARABLE>> THAT’S RIGHT. MANY AMERICANS WHO WERE BORN AFTER THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT DON’T REMEMBER THE WHITE AND COLORED SIGNS THAT WERE THROUGHOUT THE SOUTH. YET THE FIGHT FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS’ CIVIL RIGHTS EXPANDED VOTING RIGHTS AND EQUAL JUSTICE NOT JUST FOR BLACKS, BUT FOR HISPANICS, FOR GAYS AND LESBIANS, FOR WOMEN. ALL OF THE LEGISLATION THAT FLOWED OUT OF THE STRUGGLE OF EVERYDAY WORKING WOMEN AND MEN OF AFRICAN DESCENT IN THIS COUNTRY PAVED THE WAY FOR GREATER DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE. SO THE STORY “FREEDOM” IS ABOUT A FREEDOM NOT JUST THAT’S AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN STORY, BUT AN AMERICAN STORY.

VAL>> AND THERE’S ALSO A POINT AT WHICH THEY DECIDED VERY CONSCIOUSLY TO MOVE THE MOVEMENT FROM THE SOUTH TO THE NORTH. THE NEXT PICTURE SHOWS A MARCH THAT HAPPENED, I BELIEVE, IN CHICAGO. IS THAT RIGHT?

MANNING MARABLE>> THAT’S RIGHT.

VAL>> THIS IS AN UNUSUAL PICTURE. I DON’T EVER REMEMBER SEEING THIS. IT’S A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE LED BY --

MANNING MARABLE>> -- MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. PREPARING FOR NON-VIOLENT CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE DEMONSTRATIONS IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

LEITH MULLINGS>> AND ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT IT IS THAT MARTIN LUTHER KING NOTED THAT THIS WAS AN AREA WHERE HE FELT MORE HATE THAN IN MANY OF THE PLACES HE HAD BEEN IN THE SOUTH, SO MOVING INTO THE NORTH --

JESS>> -- THAT GOES BACK TO THE LYNCHING IN MARION, INDIANA.

MANNING MARABLE>> THIS IS TRUE.

LEITH MULLINGS>> ABSOLUTELY, YES.

JESS>> THE SHOCKING THING THERE, IN ADDITION TO THE LYNCHING ITSELF, WAS THE FACT THAT THE AUDIENCE SEEMED TO BE CELEBRATING AND THERE WERE AS MANY WOMEN AS THERE WERE MEN IN THAT CROWD.

LEITH MULLINGS>> YES.

MANNING MARABLE>> THIS IS TRUE. THERE WERE SOME LYNCHINGS THAT HAD THOUSANDS OF PARTICIPANTS THAT WERE ADVERTISED IN NEWSPAPERS BEFORE THE CRIME OCCURRED. YET THE BOOK “FREEDOM” IS NOT SIMPLY ABOUT THE PAIN AND DISCRIMINATION. IT’S ABOUT THE JOY AND CELEBRATION OF BLACK CULTURE AND HUMANITY. I THINK THAT IT IS A STORY THAT NOT ONLY HAS HUNDREDS OF PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT THERE IS A TEXT OF ABOUT 85,000 WORDS THAT REALLY PROVIDES AN OVERVIEW OF THE STORY OF FREEDOM FROM THE BLACK PERSPECTIVE.

VAL>> NOW THERE WAS A WOMAN WHO WAS AHEAD OF HER TIME. SHE WAS A FEMINIST WRITER THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HER. WHO WAS SHE?

LEITH MULLINGS>> THIS IS ZORA NEALE HURSTON --

VAL>> -- ZORA NEALE --

LEITH MULLINGS>> NEALE HURSTON, WHO WAS A FEMINIST ANTHROPOLOGIST, ACTUALLY, WHO STUDIED AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY WITH BOAZ AND SHE WROTE A GREAT DEAL ABOUT, AS ANTHROPOLOGISTS DO, ABOUT ORDINARY PEOPLE, ABOUT THE WAYS OF THE SOUTH.

VAL>> WHAT YEARS DID SHE --

MANNING MARABLE>> -- IN THE 1920’S, 1930’S AND 1940’S. SHE WROTE A SERIES OF NOVELS THAT WERE ETHNOGRAPHIC THAT REALLY SPOKE TO THE BEAUTY AND THE COMPLEXITY OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN LIFE AND CULTURE IN THE SOUTH.

JESS>> DOES YOUR BOOK SUGGEST THAT, IN SPITE OF THE DARK, DARK PAST, WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY?

MANNING MARABLE>> WELL, SOMETIMES YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD AND BACKWARD SIMULTANEOUSLY. THERE’S REALLY NOT ONE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY TODAY. THERE ARE THREE. THERE IS A BLACK MIDDLE-CLASS THAT’S DONE REMARKABLY SUCCESSFULLY. THERE’S A BLACK WORKING CLASS THAT’S STEADILY LOSING GROUND --

JESS>> -- LOSING GROUND?

MANNING MARABLE>> LOSING GROUND IN TERMS OF REAL INCOME. THEN THERE’S A BLACK UNDER-CLASS. I DON’T LIKE THAT TERMINOLOGY, BUT THE TRULY DISADVANTAGED THAT ARE STILL LOCKED OUT OF THE AMERICAN DREAM. THE BOOK “FREEDOM” TRIES TO SPEAK TO THE COMPLEXITY OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND I THINK THAT IT PROVIDES A FRAMEWORK FOR UNDERSTANDING WHERE WE NEED TO GO IN THE FUTURE TO MAKE FREEDOM A REALITY FOR ALL AMERICANS.

JESS>> SOME THOUGHT IT HAPPENED WITH THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION.

MANNING MARABLE>> WE STILL HAVE A LONG STRUGGLE TO GO.

VAL>> LONG WAY TO GO. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR REALLY FILLING OUT THE STORY IN AN ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS BOOK. THE NAME OF THE BOOK IS “FREEDOM: A PHOTOGRAPHIC HISTORY OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN STRUGGLE” BY LEITH MULLINGS AND MANNING MARABLE.

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JESS>> WHEN YOU’RE WATCHING A GREAT MOTION PICTURE, THE LAST THING YOU MAY WANT TO THINK ABOUT IS THE WAY IT WAS EDITED. THAT’S ACTUALLY A COMPLIMENT TO THE ARTISTS WHO PUT THE FILM TOGETHER. THEY WANT YOU TO FOCUS ON THE STORY, NOT ON ALL THEIR HARD WORK.

VAL>> BUT THOSE IN THE MOTION PICTURE BUSINESS KNOW THAT AN EDITOR CAN MAKE OR BREAK A FILM AND TONIGHT WE’RE ABOUT TO SEE WHAT IT’S LIKE WHEN A MASTER IS AT WORK. HIS NAME IS WALTER MURCH AND HERE’S ONE OF THE GEMS, “THE CONVERSATION”.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> JOINING US IS THE CELEBRATED AUTHOR OF “THE ENGLISH PATIENT”, AMONG OTHER WORKS. NOW MICHAEL ONDAATJE HAS WRITTEN A NEW BOOK. IT’S CALLED “THE CONVERSATIONS: WALTER MURCH AND THE ART OF EDITING FILM”. IT TAKES US BEHIND THE SCENES OF SOME OF THE TRULY GREAT MOTION PICTURES. “CONVERSATIONS” BECAME PART OF THE TITLE OF YOUR BOOK, BUT YOU HAD LONG CONVERSATIONS WITH WALTER MURCH, DIDN’T YOU?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> YES, ABOUT A YEAR IN FACT. WE WOULD MEET EVERY THREE OR FOUR MONTHS AND WE’D TALK FOR ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE DAYS. THE FIRST TIME I MET HIM, IN FACT, HE WAS RE-EDITING “APOCALYPSE NOW”, YOU KNOW, WHICH CAME OUT THE PAST YEAR. WATCHING THIS MAN TAKE A FILM THAT WAS ALREADY A CLASSIC OUT OF THE CAN AND THEN MOVING SCENES AROUND, ENLARGING SCENES, PUTTING IN SCENES THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE, YOU SUDDENLY REALIZE HOW MUCH THE CRAFT OF FILMMAKING DEPENDS ON THIS ONE PERSON WHO HAS TO PUT ALL THESE FRAGMENTS TOGETHER.

VAL>> WELL, THE SCENE THAT WE JUST SAW WHICH WAS FROM “THE CONVERSATION”, WHICH IS AN AMAZING FILM, IT SEEMS TO BREAK A LOT OF THE TRADITIONAL RULES OF EDITING, MATCH FRAMES AND, YOU KNOW, ACTION MATCHING PERFECTLY. IS THE BEST EDITING WHERE YOU BREAK A LOT OF RULES?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> WELL, I THINK ANY WORK OF ART HAS TO FIND ITS OWN ORGANIC STRUCTURE. YOU KNOW, SOMETHING HAS TO BE BROKEN IN ORDER TO DO THAT, I THINK. IN FACT, “THE CONVERSATION” WAS THE FIRST FILM THAT WALTER MURCH EDITED. HE HAD BEEN A VERY WELL-KNOWN SOUND EDITOR UP TO THAT POINT.

JESS>> IRONICALLY, IN THE SCENE WE CHOSE, THERE WAS VERY LITTLE CONVERSATION. NO DIALOGUE FOR THAT.

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> WHAT’S GREAT ABOUT THAT FILM IS THAT YOU HAVE THIS ONE SENTENCE THAT HE HAS TO INTERPRET. HE HAS SURVEILLANCE ON THESE TWO PEOPLE TALKING. THE FILM IS A KIND OF WONDERFUL MYSTERY TO FIND OUT WHAT THAT SENTENCE MEANS AND HE MISINTERPRETS IT.

JESS>> MURCH EDITS BOTH FILM AND SOUND?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> YES. HE BEGAN AS A SOUND EDITOR. HE DID THE SOUND MIX FOR COPPOLA’S FIRST FILM, “THE RAIN PEOPLE”. HE WORKED WITH GEORGE LUCAS AND THX WHERE HE WORKED WITH GEORGE LUCAS.

VAL>> DO EDITORS JUST GO INTO A ROOM AND WORK BY THEMSELVES OR IS THE DIRECTOR LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDER? YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH CONTROL DO THEY HAVE OVER WHAT THEY DO OR ARE THEY OFTEN BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> SOMEONE LIKE WALTER HAS A LOT OF CONTROL. I THINK, ESSENTIALLY, THE DIRECTOR FILMS THE FILM AND WALTER ALWAYS HAS THE FIRST DRAFT OF THE FILM, THE FIRST ASSEMBLY.

VAL>> SO THE DIRECTOR MAY JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE FOR A WHILE?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> YEAH. THEN, OF COURSE, THE DIRECTOR WILL COME IN AND SAY, WELL, THERE SHOULD BE MORE ANGST OR DRAMA HERE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THEY’LL TALK TOGETHER. I KNOW THAT I SAW WALTER WORKING WITH ANTHONY MINGHELLA ON “THE ENGLISH PATIENT”. THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM, BUT ESSENTIALLY WALTER DOES HIS VERSION OF IT FIRST OF ALL AND THEN -- HE CAN FIND COMPLETELY NEW PATHS IN THE STORY AND THAT’S WHAT’S REALLY INTERESTING.

JESS>> SOMETIMES THERE ARE TWO VERSIONS. ONE IS THE ORIGINAL AND THEN THERE’S THE DIRECTOR’S CUT. THAT SUGGESTS THERE’S A LITTLE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE DIRECTOR AND THE EDITOR, DOESN’T IT?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> NO, I THINK THERE’S THE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE DIRECTOR AND THE PRODUCERS IN WHO WANTS IT TO BE A LITTLE BIT SHORTER (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THE DIRECTOR AND THE MARKETPLACE.

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> AND THE MARKETPLACE, YEAH.

VAL>> WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER CLIP WHICH IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF EDITING. THIS IS FROM “GODFATHER, PART II”. LET’S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> WALTER MURCH AS WON THREE ACADEMY AWARDS?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> YES, HE DID. HE WON TWO FOR “THE ENGLISH PATIENT” AND THEN ONE FOR THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF “APOCALYPSE NOW”.

JESS>> NOW YOU DIDN’T DO THE SCREENPLAY FOR “THE ENGLISH PATIENT”, BUT IT WAS YOUR BOOK. WERE YOU HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS ON FILM?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> I’M ONE OF THOSE FEW WRITERS WHO WAS HAPPY (LAUGHTER). BUT WHAT WAS WONDERFUL FOR ME WAS THE EXPERIENCE OF ACTUALLY WORKING WITH THAT COMPANY OF SAUL ZAENTZ AND ANTHONY MINGHELLA AND THEN WALTER. I WORKED WITH THE FIRST TWO IN TERMS OF THE SCRIPT. ARTHUR SMITTIGAN AND HAL ANTHONY WROTE THE SCREENPLAY AND THEN I WAS ABLE TO SEE WALTER WORK ON THE EDITING, WHICH WAS FASCINATING.

VAL>> NOW, AS A WRITER, WERE YOU CONSTANTLY MAKING PARALLELS BETWEEN EDITING PROSE AND EDITING FILM?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> WELL, I’VE MADE TWO DOCUMENTARY FILMS EARLY ON IN MY LIFE, SO I LEARNED A LOT FROM EDITING IN SOME WAYS AND BROUGHT THAT INTO MY WRITING. I USUALLY KIND OF WRITE FOR TWO OR THREE YEARS AND THEN SPEND ABOUT A YEAR EDITING IT RATHER THAN EDITING IT AS I GO ALONG. FILM EDITING IS A VERY, VERY SERIOUS CRAFT AND, IN SOME WAYS, THE CRAFT IS MUCH MORE SERIOUS IN DETAIL THAN IT IS IN WRITING SOMETIMES, SO I BRING THAT OVER INTO MY WRITING AS WELL.

JESS>> WHAT SEPARATES WALTER MURCH FROM OTHER EDITORS? WHAT DISTINGUISHES HIM MOST?

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MADE THE BOOK EXCITING FOR ME TO DO WAS THAT WALTER IS A VERY, VERY ARTICULATE MAN. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE IN FILM ARE NOT ARTICULATE. NOT EVEN BOOKS ARE ARTICULATE EITHER. BUT WALTER IS A REMARKABLY ARTICULATE MAN AND HE CAN SHOW US HOW THINGS WORK VERY WELL. THE BOOK IS FULL OF THESE WONDERFUL STORIES. I MEAN, HE TALKS ABOUT HOW BEETHOVEN WAS A GREAT INFLUENCE ON FILM EVEN THOUGH HE EXISTED A CENTURY BEFORE AND THEN GOES ON TO SHOW HOW THAT HAPPENED WITH DYNAMISM AND, YOU KNOW, THE ORGANIC QUALITY OF MUSIC.

VAL>> REAL QUICKLY, WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT A SCENE FROM “THE ENGLISH PATIENT” WHICH IS, OF COURSE, YOUR CLAIM TO FAME. LET’S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> GOOD EDITING.

MICHAEL ONDAATJE>> WELL, WHAT’S GREAT IN THAT SCENE, ACTUALLY, IS THE SOUND IN THAT SCENE. IT’S THE MACHINE GUNS GOING OFF AND THEN THAT MUSIC, THAT KIND OF ROMANTIC MUSIC, GOING ON. THAT’S A DEBATE ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE FILM OF THESE TWO QUALITIES.

JESS>> MICHAEL ONDAATJE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. HERE’S IS ANOTHER LOOK AT THE BOOK. IT’S CALLED “THE CONVERSATIONS: WALTER MURCH AND THE ART OF EDITING FILM”.

VAL>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG. YOU CAN GO TO TRANSCRIPTS OF PAST SHOWS AND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES. PLUS, IF YOU MISSED OUR SPECIAL SERIES ON CHILDHOOD OBESITY, YOU CAN STILL WATCH IT THERE AND GET MORE INFORMATION ON THE STORIES WE’VE COVERED.

JESS>> AND A REMINDER TO JOIN US MONDAY FOR EXTENDED HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DAVIS-SIMON DEBATE, PLUS WE’LL AIR THE DEBATE IN ITS ENTIRETY MONDAY AT 11:00 P.M. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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