10/7/02

LC02107

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> FOR MONTHS, THEY’VE BEEN TRADING BARBS WITH THEIR COMMERCIALS. TODAY THEY DID IT FACE TO FACE. WE’LL HAVE EXTENDED HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DEBATE BETWEEN GRAY DAVIS AND BILL SIMON.

BILL SIMON>> FIRST, AN APOLOGY TO THE PEOPLE FOR THE CAMPAIGN THAT HE’S RUN TO DATE. IT’S BEEN FULL OF DISTORTIONS AND FALSE ATTACKS AGAINST ME, MY FAMILY AND, EVEN NOW, AGAINST MY LATE FATHER.

GRAY DAVIS>> MR. SIMON, YOU’RE THE LAST ONE TO BE GIVING US A LECTURE ON ETHICS.

VAL>> AND WHEN DOES SPANKING A CHILD CROSS THE LINE AND BECOME CHILD ABUSE? TONIGHT OUR LEGAL EXPERT, JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, TELLS US WHAT THE LAW SAYS AND IT MAY SURPRISE YOU.

JESS>> AND THEN A LOOK AT HOW AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS ARE PEERING INTO SPACE AND DISCOVERING THINGS THE EXPERTS HAVE MISSED. WE’LL TALK WITH AN AUTHOR WHO’S A BIG FAN OF BACKYARD STARGAZERS. HE CLAIMS THEY’RE MAKING SURE THE EARTH DOESN’T GET BLINDSIDED BY AN ASTEROID.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. THIS WAS A BIG DAY IN CALIFORNIA POLITICS, THE FIRST TELEVISED DEBATE BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR AND PERHAPS THE ONLY CHANCE FOR VOTERS TO SIZE UP GRAY DAVIS AND BILL SIMON SIDE BY SIDE.

VAL>> THE ELECTION IS NOW JUST ONE MONTH AWAY AND THERE ARE STILL A HUGE NUMBER OF UNDECIDED VOTERS WHO COULD SWING THE RACE EITHER WAY. AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, THAT’S WHY THE STAKES WERE ESPECIALLY HIGH FOR TODAY’S BIG DEBATE.

>> “ELECTION 2002 - THE GUBERNATORIAL DEBATE”

PHILIP BRUCE>> IN A RACE THAT’S SETTING NEW STANDARDS FOR NASTINESS IN CALIFORNIA POLITICS, TODAY’S DEBATE WAS TRUE TO FORM AND IT STARTED WITH THE REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER, BILL SIMON, DEMANDING AN APOLOGY FROM HIS OPPONENT, GRAY DAVIS.

BILL SIMON>> WHAT THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA DESERVE TO HEAR, BUT WHAT THEY PROBABLY WON’T FROM MR. DAVIS, IS AN APOLOGY. FIRST, AN APOLOGY TO THE PEOPLE FOR THE CAMPAIGN THAT HE’S RUN TO DATE. IT’S BEEN FULL OF DISTORTIONS AND FALSE ATTACKS AGAINST ME, MY FAMILY AND, EVEN NOW, AGAINST MY LATE FATHER. BUT MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY, AN APOLOGY TO ALL CALIFORNIANS FOR A DISASTROUS FOUR YEARS IN OFFICE.

GRAY DAVIS>> NOW I DON’T QUESTION THE SINCERITY OF MR. SIMON’S BELIEFS. MR. SIMON IS TRUE BLUE THINK TANK CONSERVATIVE. HE IS THE SON OF THE FIRST FAMILY OF THE FAR RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY. WHAT I DO QUESTION IS THE DIRECTION HE WANTS TO TAKE THIS STATE. HE IS SIMPLY OUT OF STEP WITH THE VALUES OF MOST CALIFORNIANS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BOTH CANDIDATES FACED TOUGH QUESTIONS ABOUT CALIFORNIA’S BUDGET CRISIS AND A STATE DEFICIT THAT COULD SOON REACH $50 BILLION DOLLARS. QUESTION? HOW CAN YOU FIX IT WITHOUT A MAJOR TAX HIKE?

JANET CLAYTON>> VETERAN LAWMAKERS, INCLUDING THE MAN RUNNING FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ON YOUR TICKET, SAID THAT CAN’T BE DONE STRICTLY WITH THE SORTS OF THINGS YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.

BILL SIMON>> THE FACT IS, THIS LAST YEAR I CAME OUT WITH A BUDGET PLAN THAT PROPOSED $13 BILLION DOLLAR COMBINATION CUTS AND STIMULANTS. I PROPOSED OVER $9 BILLION DOLLARS OF CUTS, MANY OF WHICH HAVE STILL NOT YET BEEN ADOPTED.

GRAY DAVIS>> HE DID NOT PROPOSE A BUDGET TO COVER A $24 BILLION DOLLAR SHORTFALL. HE TOLD THE DAILY NEWS THAT, IF HE MADE A NUMBER OF ADDITIONAL CUTS, HE’D JUST BE CRITICIZED BY THE GOVERNOR FOR DOING IT. WELL, WELCOME TO THE BIG TIME, MR. SIMON. PEOPLE IN THIS STATE EXPECT GOVERNORS TO MAKE THE TOUGH DECISIONS, NOT RUN FROM THEM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THEN CAME QUESTIONS ABOUT GRAY DAVIS’S REPUTATION AS A FUNDRAISING MACHINE AND WHETHER HE’D CONTINUE THE PRACTICE AFTER NOVEMBER, POSSIBLY WITH AN EYE TOWARD A BIGGER OFFICE.

>> THE QUESTION IS, ARE YOU GOING TO STOP RAISING SO MUCH MONEY?

GRAY DAVIS>> I HAVE NO NEED TO RAISE MONEY ON THE ORDER THAT I’VE RAISED FOR RE-ELECTION.

>> AND ALONG WITH THAT, WILL YOU MAKE A COMMITMENT TO SERVE A FULL FOUR-YEAR SECOND TERM AND NOT RUN FOR ANOTHER OFFICE LIKE PRESIDENT OR SENATE?

GRAY DAVIS>> I’VE NO INTENTION FOR RUNNING FOR ANOTHER OFFICE. WE HAVE A LOT OF CHALLENGES IN CALIFORNIA. I INTEND TO STAY HERE AND DO MY JOB.

>> BUT YOU WON’T MAKE A COMMITMENT TO THAT?

GRAY DAVIS>> I’M NOT MAKING A COMMITMENT, BUT I HAVE NO PLANS TO DO ANYTHING ELSE. BELIEVE ME, WITH THE ENERGY CRISIS AND A BUDGET DEFICIT, IT HAS BEEN CHALLENGING ENOUGH.

BILL SIMON>> WELL, I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNOR WOULD DISCONTINUE HIS PRODIGIOUS FUNDRAISING TACTICS BECAUSE HE WAS RAISING MONEY AT THE RATE OF A MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH WELL BEFORE I EVEN ANNOUNCED MY INTENTION TO SEEK THE OFFICE OF GOVERNOR.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE SIMON CAMP CLAIMS IT HAS EVIDENCE THAT DAVIS HAS SKIRTED THE LAW BY SOLICITING CAMPAIGN DONATIONS INSIDE THE STATE CAPITOL. THAT INCLUDES A $10,000 CHECK THAT DAVIS ALLEGEDLY RECEIVED FROM A LAW ENFORCEMENT GROUP.

BILL SIMON>> MR. DAVIS, IT IS ILLEGAL TO ACCEPT CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS IN STATE GOVERNMENT OFFICE BUILDINGS. IN YOUR CAREER, HAVE YOU EVER ACCEPTED A CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION IN THE STATE CAPITOL OR IN ANY OF YOUR GOVERNMENT OFFICES? PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION YES OR NO.

GRAY DAVIS>> I’VE CONDUCTED MYSELF WITHIN THE LAW AND, MR. SIMON, YOU’RE THE LAST ONE TO BE GIVING US A LECTURE ON ETHICS. AS YOU STAND HERE, YOU’RE BEING SUED BY THE BUSH JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR DEFRAUDING THE POST OFFICE. YOU’RE BEING INVESTIGATED BY THE IRS FOR YOUR OFFSHORE TAX SHELTERS IN THE CAYMAN ISLANDS WHICH THEY SAY ARE AN ABUSE AND EVASION OF TAXES AND YOUR “PAY TO PLAY” SCHEME IN NEW JERSEY WAS CITED AND FINED FIVE TIMES BY SECURITIES REGULATORS, SO YOU’RE NOT IN ANY POSITION TO QUESTION ANYONE’S ETHICS. AGAIN, MR. SIMON, DO NOT THROW ROCKS IF YOU LIVE IN A GLASS HOUSE.

HAL FISHMAN>> OKAY, MR. SIMON, DO YOU HAVE A RESPONSE TO THAT?

BILL SIMON>> WELL, MR. DAVIS, YOU DIDN’T ANSWER MY QUESTION. I ASKED FOR A YES OR NO ANSWER. AND SECONDLY, YOUR REMARKS ABOUT THESE INVESTIGATIONS ARE TOTALLY FALSE AND MISLEADING IN EVERY REGARD. I JUST WANT TO GO ON RECORD AND SAY THAT, IN ALL YOUR TELEVISION ADS THAT YOU RAN THIS SUMMER, WHEN YOU CHOSE TO ATTACK ME PERSONALLY AS OPPOSED TO TALKING ABOUT YOUR OWN RECORD, AND THE REASON IS BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A RECORD TO RUN ON. THAT’S A SHAME.

GRAY DAVIS>> I DO HAVE A RECORD.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHEN THE CANDIDATES HAD A CHANCE TO QUESTION EACH OTHER, DAVIS QUICKLY TURNED TO GUNS AND SIMON’S ENDORSEMENT BY THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION. DID THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE MAKE SECRET PROMISES TO THE NRA THAT HE’D TRY TO ROLL BACK SEVERAL NEWLY-PASSED GUN BILLS?

GRAY DAVIS>> YOU TOLD THE L.A. TIMES OVER THE WEEKEND THAT YOU COULDN’T THINK OF A SINGLE AREA IN WHICH YOU DISAGREED WITH THE NRA. NOW THAT YOU’VE HAD A COUPLE OF DAYS TO THINK ABOUT IT, WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL US ALL THE AREAS THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH THE NRA OR THE GUN LOBBY?

BILL SIMON>> I’M HAPPY TO DO IT, MR. DAVIS. YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, YOU MISCHARACTERIZED MY POSITION, YOU KNOW, WITH RESPECT TO STANCES I’VE TAKEN. YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF ASSAULT WEAPONS. THEY HAVE NO PLACE ON OUR STREET. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS: I’VE BEEN CLEAR SINCE THE START OF THIS CAMPAIGN, PRIMARY INCLUDED, THAT I’M AGAINST ANY NEW GUN LEGISLATION. I THOUGHT YOU WERE TOO, ACTUALLY, UNTIL YOU SIGNED SOME ADDITIONAL ONES, BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU WERE IN FAVOR OF A MORATORIUM. BUT THERE’S ANOTHER INSTANCE WHERE HONESTLY, YOU KNOW, YOU CHANGED YOUR OPINION.

GRAY DAVIS>> MR. SIMON, AS YOU KNOW, THESE GUN GROUPS DO NOT ENDORSE YOU UNLESS YOU PROMISE TO ROLL BACK EXISTING GUN LAWS. HAL WON’T LET ME LIFT THIS PROP HERE, BUT IT’S THE FIRST PAGE OF A “GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA” QUESTIONNAIRE AND THE FIRST QUESTION IS DO YOU OPPOSE A ONE-GUN-A-MONTH LAW FOR THE PURCHASE OF FIREARMS? YES OR NO. WE DESERVE TO KNOW YOUR ANSWER TO THAT AND YOUR ANSWER TO WHETHER YOU SUPPORT TRIGGER LOCKS FOR CHILDREN. YOU GAVE THE ANSWER IN SECRET. WE DESERVE TO HEAR IT IN PERSON BEFORE THE ELECTION TAKES PLACE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> FOR MUCH OF THE DEBATE, SIMON TRIED TO PORTRAY DAVIS AS A CRAFTY POLITICIAN WHO WOULD SAY OR DO ALMOST ANYTHING. CASE IN POINT, THE GOVERNOR’S RECENT VETO OF A BILL THAT DAVIS PROMISED LATINO LAWMAKERS HE’D SIGN. THE MEASURE WOULD HAVE GIVEN DRIVERS LICENSES TO MORE THAN A MILLION UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WHO PASSED CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.

BILL SIMON>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I FIND IT MORE THAN A LITTLE CURIOUS THAT MR. DAVIS SAYS HE WILL SIGN A LAW IF IT HAD THE FOLLOWING THINGS PRESENT IN IT BECAUSE THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT HE TOLD THE HISPANIC CAUCUS AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHY THEY WITHDREW THEIR ENDORSEMENT LATE LAST WEEK. THAT’S EXACTLY WHY THEY HAD TROUBLE BECAUSE SOMETIMES MR. DAVIS HAS TROUBLE WITH THE TRUTH. I THINK THERE IS NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD SIGN A BILL IN THE FUTURE UNLESS IT SUITED HIS POLITICAL INTEREST. I THINK THAT’S THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IN SACRAMENTO. IT’S POLITICS AS USUAL.

GRAY DAVIS>> YOU KNOW, YOU CRITICIZE ME FOR VETOING THE BILL EVEN THOUGH THE DRIVER’S LICENSE BILL WAS MASSIVELY FLAWED. I LET THE LATINO CAUCUS KNOW THAT AND I WILL SIGN A BILL IF IT CORRECTS THAT PROBLEM. BUT MR. SIMON IS CRITICIZING ME FOR A BILL HE SAID HE WOULD VETO. I LEARNED A LONG TIME AGO NOT TO HOLD SOMEONE TO A STANDARD HIGHER THAN YOU CAN LIVE UP TO YOURSELF.

PHILIP BRUCE>> DAVIS REPEATED HIS STANDARD ATTACK ON SIMON’S PRIVATE BUSINESS DEALINGS AND SIMON ACCUSED DAVIS OF BUNGLING CALIFORNIA’S ENERGY CRISIS. BOTH CANDIDATES WERE REMINDED THE VOTERS AREN’T THAT FOND OF EITHER OF THEM.

JANET CLAYTON>> GOVERNOR DAVIS, MANY PEOPLE SIMPLY DO NOT LIKE YOU. LEGISLATORS IN BOTH PARTIES REPEATEDLY TELL US THEY FEEL LITTLE OR NO GOOD WILL TOWARD YOU. WHY IS THAT AND HOW HAS THIS CHILL AFFECTED YOUR ABILITY TO DO YOUR JOB WELL?

GRAY DAVIS>> CALIFORNIANS HAVE ENTERTAINERS, ROCK STARS, ATHLETES TO ENTERTAIN THEM AND INSPIRE THEM. THEY EXPECT US TO GET THE JOB DONE AND, FRANKLY, I’VE HAD SOME TOUGH DECISIONS TO MAKE WITH AN ENERGY CRISIS AND A NATIONAL RECESSION. IT WASN’T EASY STANDING UP TO ENRON OR TO EL PASO NATURAL GAS A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. I WAS A LONE VOICE SAYING YOU’RE RIPPING OFF THE STATE. MR. SIMON, WHOSE BUSINESS WAS PARTNERING WITH ENRON, SAID, WELL, LET’S GIVE THEM A CHANCE AND HE CRITICIZED ME FOR BEING TOO CRITICAL OF ENRON. AT EL PASO NATURAL GAS, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RECENTLY FOUND I WAS RIGHT. I TALKED TO THE PRESIDENT DIRECTLY ABOUT THIS WHEN HE WAS HERE IN JUNE OF 2001. HE SAID HE WOULD LOOK INTO IT FOR ME AND HE DID. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RECENTLY FOUND THAT EL PASO NATURAL GAS OVERCHARGED US $4 BILLION DOLLARS. MR. SIMON’S FAMILY TRUST INVESTED IN EL PASO NATURAL GAS AND MADE A PROFIT OFF OF OUR MISERY.

BILL SIMON>> AS FAR AS STANDING UP TO ENRON, HE DID STAND UP TO ENRON. HE STOOD UP TO THEM AND ASKED FOR $120,000 AND THEY GAVE IT TO HIM. THEN LATER, HE CRITICIZED THEM FOR OTHER REASONS AND HE NEVER GAVE THE MONEY BACK. THAT’S THE KIND OF MAN MR. DAVIS IS. THAT’S WHY PEOPLE DON’T TRUST HIM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IT ALL ENDED WITH A HANDSHAKE NOT BECAUSE THE MEN LIKE EACH OTHER, BUT BECAUSE IT’S EXPECTED.

JESS>> IF WE’VE LEFT YOU WANTING MORE, THERE’S GOOD NEWS. TONIGHT AT 11:00 P.M., WE’LL CARRY THE DAVIS-SIMON DEBATE IN ITS ENTIRETY AS A LIFE AND TIMES SPECIAL. AND ONE MORE PROGRAMMING NOTE, THE “CHARLIE ROSE” SHOW MOVES TO MIDNIGHT TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE DAVIS-SIMON DEBATE.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, SANTA MONICA IS WIDELY KNOWN AS THE HOME OF THE HOMELESS, BUT IS THE CITY'S GENEROSITY WEARING THIN?

>> BECAUSE WE HAVE NOW A HUGE POPULATION, MANY OF WHOM ARE UNABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND REALLY SUFFER FROM MENTAL ILLNESS, THOSE FOLKS ARE BEING PUSHED ASIDE BY A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE OF VERY NORMAL INTELLIGENCE WHO HAVE SIMPLY DISCOVERED THAT THIS IS AN AREA WHERE THEY CAN ACHIEVE URBAN CAMPING ON A LONG-TERM BASIS.

JESS>> MANY OF US GREW UP WITH PARENTS WHO CLEARLY BELIEVED THAT A LITTLE SWAT ON THE BEHIND NOW AND THEN WAS A GOOD WAY TO GET THE KID'S ATTENTION, BUT WHEN DOES A SPANKING BECOME CHILD ABUSE IN THE EYES OF THE LAW?

VAL>> JOINING US NOW TO WEIGH IN ON THAT QUESTION IS OUR LEGAL EXPERT, JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, AND WITH HIM IS LARA BLOOMQUIST OF THE L.A. CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU, TO LIFE AND TIMES.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> THANK YOU.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

JESS>> WE'VE SEEN SOME FRIGHTENING EXAMPLES OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE CHILD ABUSE. IS THE LEGAL QUESTION CHANGING?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> NO, I THINK WHAT IT'S REALLY COMING DOWN TO -- AND THAT'S HOW MS. BLOOMQUIST AND I MET -- REALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE PARAMETERS UNDER WHICH PEOPLE CAN BE CHARGED WITH ABUSING THEIR CHILDREN. THERE IS NO LAW THAT PROHIBITS INDIVIDUALS FROM DISCIPLINING THEIR CHILDREN AND THAT INCLUDES SPANKING. BUT OFTENTIMES, PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY CROSS THAT LINE AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THIS PARTICULAR CASE THAT'S HAPPENING IN INDIANA ILLUSTRATES.

JESS>> THIS IS THE MOTHER WHO WAS SEEN BEATING HER CHILD ON A SECURITY CAMERA?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> THAT'S CORRECT. IT RAISES THE ISSUE AS TO HOW FAR CAN A PARENT GO AS IT RELATES TO DISCIPLINING YOUR OWN CHILD. I KNOW, EVEN WITH MS. BLOOMQUIST, I HAD ASKED THAT SAME QUESTION OF HER BECAUSE WE HAD A CASE AND WE WERE TRYING TO DECIDE IF THIS WAS A CASE WHERE THE PERSON SHOULD REALLY BE PROSECUTED OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT MAYBE SHOULD BE AN OFFICE CONFERENCE WHERE WE SHOULD LOOK AT DOING SOME ALTERNATIVE THINGS. THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WERE ABLE TO COME UP WITH IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS THE APPROPRIATE REMEDY.

VAL>> SO WHAT DOES THE LAW SAY? IT'S SUCH A SUBJECTIVE THING, BUT IS THERE A LEGAL DEFINITION?

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> YES, ACTUALLY, THERE ARE. THE MAIN DEFINITION IS THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO PHYSICALLY DISCIPLINE YOUR CHILDREN, BUT IT MUST BE REASONABLE. IT CANNOT BE EXCESSIVE AND IT MUST BE WARRANTED, WHICH MEANS IT MUST BE NECESSARY UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

VAL>> BOY, THOSE ARE OBJECTIVE. REASONABLE, WARRANTED --

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> -- LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY. IT HAS TO BE IN AN ACT OF DISCIPLINE. THAT'S THE FIRST THING.

JESS>> NOT JUT AN ACT OF ANGER.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> WELL, YES. I MEAN, THEORETICALLY, IT CAN'T BE A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE JUST HITS THEIR CHILD FOR NO PARTICULAR REASON. MAYBE YOU COME HOME DRUNK OR SOMETHING AND THE KID COMES RUNNING UP TO YOU AND SAYS, "DADDY, DADDY, LOOK AT MY PICTURE" AND YOU SMACK HIM. THAT'S NOT IN AN ACT OF DISCIPLINE, SO YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO GET TO THE OTHER COMPONENTS.

JESS>> AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN MENTIONED INJURY.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> INJURY IS A MAIN COMPONENT. IF YOU INJURE YOUR CHILD, YOU HAVE VIOLATED 273D OF THE PENAL CODE.

VAL>> IS A BRUISE CONSIDERED AN INJURY?

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> YES, IT IS.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> AND A BRUISE IS EASY BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN SEE. OFTENTIMES, THESE PENAL CODE VIOLATIONS ALSO INCLUDE INTERNAL VIOLATIONS OR DAMAGES BECAUSE, EVEN IN THE CASE IN INDIANA, THE FOUR-YEAR-OLD, MARTHA TOOGOOD, THERE WAS NO PHYSICAL INJURY ON HER. THERE WERE NO BRUISES, THERE WERE NO SCRAPES, NO SCRATCHES, NO BLEEDING --

VAL>> -- WELL, AT LEAST BY THE TIME THE CHILD WAS TAKEN TO THE DOCTOR, BUT THERE WERE A FEW DAYS THAT WENT BY.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAD A SITUATION WHERE OFTENTIMES YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE LINE IS DRAWN. WE HAD A MOTHER THAT WAS DISCIPLINING HER CHILD BECAUSE THE CHILD WAS NOT DOING HOMEWORK. SHE HAD BEEN TELLING THE CHILD, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. THE CHILD WAS TEASING HIS BROTHER AND SO FORTH AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES ESCALATED TO THE POINT WHERE SHE SAID I TOLD YOU TO DO THAT HOMEWORK AND HE COMPLETELY IGNORED HER, SO SHE SPANKED HIM. THE ISSUE THEN BECAME, WELL, WE HAD THESE INJURIES AND THEY WERE BRUISES. THEN YOU LOOK AND SAY, OKAY, WAS THIS JUST A MOTHER SPANKING A CHILD BECAUSE HE DIDN'T DO HIS HOMEWORK? THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE STARTED OUR DIALOG BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE OF THE OPINION THAT CHILDREN SHOULDN'T BE TOUCHED AT ALL.

THEN THE LAW ALSO SAYS THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE ANY TYPE OF TRAUMATIC CONDITION, SO IT REALLY WAS ONE OF THOSE AREAS WHERE IT COULD HAVE GONE EITHER WAY. BUT THIS PERSON HAD NO RECORD, SHE WAS IN HER FORTIES, SHE HAD HAD OTHER CHILDREN BEFORE, SO IT WAS REALLY ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME DIALOG WITH THE PUBLIC DEFENDER, WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, TO FIGURE OUT IF THIS IS SOMEONE THIS LAW IS MEANT FOR OR ARE WE SOMEWHAT HAMSTRINGING THIS MOTHER WHO'S BASICALLY JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE. SHE EVEN TELLS THE KID. SHE'S A LATINO WOMAN. I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE OUT THERE WITH THOSE GANG MEMBERS AND YOU'RE GOING TO LISTEN TO ME, VERSUS SOMEONE WHO'S JUST HITTING THEIR CHILD FOR NO REASON.

JESS>> IN THE INDIANA CASE, WHICH HAS NOW BEEN SEEN BY VIRTUALLY EVERYBODY, IF THAT SECURITY CAMERA HAD NOT CAUGHT IT, THAT PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN REPORTED, AND REPORTING SEEMS TO BE REALLY A WEAK AREA WHEN IT COMES TO CHILD ABUSE.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> RIGHT. I THINK THE THING TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT CHILD ABUSE IS SOMETHING THAT OCCURS IN THE HOME NORMALLY, SO THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE AWARE OF IT ARE THOSE HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS THAT SEE IT.

JESS>> OR TEACHERS WHO SEE THE INJURIES.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> TEACHERS WHO SEE THE AFTERMATH. WE ACTUALLY GET --

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> -- AND THEY MUST REPORT.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> THAT'S RIGHT. THE MAJORITY OF OUR CASES ARE REFERRED TO US BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS. I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE VIDEO, WHAT THAT KIND OF INDICATES TO YOU IS THERE ARE KINDS OF PHILOSOPHICAL, THEORETICAL IDEAS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DISCIPLINE THEIR CHILDREN, SHOULD BE ABLE TO HIT. BUT WHEN YOU SEE IT OCCURRING, IT REALLY SHOWS HOW UGLY IT IS. I THINK THAT'S THE REACTION. I MEAN, AS JUDGE ROSS INDICATED, THE CHILD HAD NO INJURIES THAT WE KNOW OF, SO THEORETICALLY IF YOU'VE BROUGHT UP NO INJURIES ON THE CHILD, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF REASONABLE DISCIPLINE, BUT WHEN YOU SEE IT, YOU KNOW IT'S NOT REASONABLE.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> AND EVEN HERE IN CALIFORNIA, ONE THING THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT THESE CHARGES ARE SEVERE. YOU CAN BE CHARGED UP TO A YEAR IN JAIL AND A $6,000 FINE. IF IT'S CONSIDERED A "WOBBLER", MEANING IT CAN BE CHARGED AS A MISDEMEANOR OR A FELONY, IF CONVICTED OF THE FELONY, I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING AT UP TO FOUR YEARS IN PRISON.

VAL>> AND REAL QUICKLY, WHAT DID YOU DECIDE ABOUT THE WOMAN WHO SPANKED HER CHILD WITH INJURIES FOR NOT DOING HIS HOMEWORK?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> I'LL LET MS. BLOOMQUIST TELL YOU THAT (LAUGHTER).

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> WELL, IT WAS ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE IT COULD HAVE GONE EITHER WAY. OUR OFFICE HAS A HEARING PROGRAM WHERE YOU GO INTO A HEARING, YOU'RE ADVISED OR MAYBE YOU'RE ORDERED TO DO SOME PARENTING AND THEN YOU'RE KIND OF SHUNNED ASIDE FROM THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH THIS LADY.

VAL>> SO SHE WAS NOT CHARGED?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> WELL, SHE WAS CHARGED, BUT WE'RE BRINGING IT BACK.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT.

VAL>> OH, BY PARENTING CLASSES.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> LARA BLOOMQUIST WITH THE L.A. DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, AND JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU. THANKS.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> THANK YOU.

LARA BLOOMQUIST>> THANK YOU.

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VAL>> YOU DON'T NEED A MILLION DOLLAR TELESCOPE TO UNLOCK THE MYSTERIES OF SPACE. IN FACT, AMATEUR STARGAZERS ARE FINDING NEW ASTEROIDS AND COMETS ALL THE TIME WITH FAIRLY INEXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT AND OUR NEXT GUEST SAYS THAT THOSE DEDICATED AMATEURS ARE MAKING EARTH A SAFER PLACE BY KEEPING WATCH OVER ALL THOSE THINGS THAT MIGHT SOMEDAY BUMP INTO US, AND THEY'RE ALSO HELPING TO ADD TO THE BODY OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT SPACE IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS TIMOTHY FERRIS. HE'S A VETERAN SCIENCE WRITER AND HE'S WRITTEN A NEW BOOK CALLED "SEEING IN THE DARK: HOW BACKYARD STARGAZERS ARE PROBING DEEP SPACE AND GUARDING EARTH FROM INTERPLANETARY PERIL". THAT TITLE ALONE PROMPTS THE FIRST QUESTION. ARE WE AT PERIL?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> WELL, IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DEFINE IT. THE CHANCES OF OUR BEING HIT, SAY, BY A KILOMETER-SIZED ASTEROID, WHICH WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO SEND THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA BACK TO THE MIDDLE AGES, ARE ABOUT ONE IN A MILLION PER YEAR, SO THAT'S A SMALL ODD. ON THE OTHER HAND, IT HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES IN THE PAST AND, IF YOU MULTIPLY IT BY THE RESULT, IT SEEMS WORTHWHILE TO TAKE OUT AN INSURANCE POLICY (LAUGHTER). SO NASA HAS A PROGRAM TO TRY TO TAKE A CENSUS OF THESE ASTEROIDS. ONLY ABOUT HALF OF THEM HAVE BEEN DISCOVERED. AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL IN DISCOVERING ASTEROIDS AND ALSO IN FOLLOWING UP, SO THEY'RE TRACKED AND WE KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THEIR ORBIT TO BE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T POSE A FUTURE THREAT TO THE EARTH.

VAL>> NOW GIVE US AN EXAMPLE. WHO ARE SOME OF THESE AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE BODY OF KNOWLEDGE AND DONE AMAZING THINGS?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> WELL, THERE'S A WHOLE VARIETY OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WITH BACKYARD TELESCOPES. WHAT'S HAPPENED TECHNOLOGICALLY IS THAT, BECAUSE OF ADVANCES IN TELESCOPES AND PARTICULARLY IN THESE DIGITAL CAMERAS THAT ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO LIGHT, YOU HAVE THOUSANDS OF BACKYARD AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS NOW WHO HAVE OBSERVING POWER COMPARABLE TO THAT OF THE FAMOUS TWO HUNDRED-INCH TELESCOPE AT PALOMAR BACK THIRTY OR FORTY YEARS AGO WHEN IT REALLY CHARTED THE DEPTHS OF THE UNIVERSE. THESE ARE POWERFUL INSTRUMENTS IN THE HANDS OF ACCOMPLISHED AMATEURS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM. THEY CAN DO EVERYTHING FROM DISCOVERING COMETS AND ASTEROIDS, EXPLODING STARS AND OTHER GALAXIES USED TO CHART THE SIZE AND AGE OF THE UNIVERSE, MONITORING WEATHER ON OTHER PLANTS, A LOT OF THINGS UNTIL RECENTLY WERE REALLY ONLY WITHIN THE REACH OF PROFESSIONAL ASTRONOMERS.

JESS>> THIS IS A PRETTY SOPHISTICATED SCIENCE. WHILE BACKYARD ASTRONOMERS MAY SEE SOMETHING, HOW DO THEY KNOW TO DESCRIBE WHAT THEY'VE SEEN AND WHETHER IT'S OF SIGNIFICANCE OR NOT?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> WELL, THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS THEY CAN DO IT. ONE THING THEY DO IS TO USE THE INTERNET TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHER AMATEURS AND WITH PROFESSIONAL ASTRONOMERS. THERE ARE GLOBAL NETWORKS NOW OFTEN WITH COLLABORATIONS. OUT OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, FOR INSTANCE, THERE'S A THING CALLED THE "PROGRAM FOR BACKYARD ASTROPHYSICS". IT'S A GLOBAL NETWORK OF AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS MONITORING STARS TO SEE WHEN THEY FLARE UP WHAT ARE CALLED CATACLYSMIC VARIABLE STARS. THAT'S BEEN VERY USEFUL TO BOTH THE AMATEURS AND THE PROFESSIONALS.

VAL>> SO THEY'RE REALLY ORGANIZED. HOW MANY AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS ARE OUT THERE WITH THIS FAIRLY DECENT EQUIPMENT?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT --

VAL>> -- THOUSANDS?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> CERTAINLY THOUSANDS. THERE ARE PROBABLY A MILLION AMERICANS DOING AMATEUR ASTRONOMY ON SOME LEVEL MAYBE WITH A SMALL TELESCOPE, VERY ADVANCED AMATEURS PERHAPS IN THE HUNDREDS, BUT THERE ARE QUITE A FEW WHO ARE VERY GOOD AT PARTICULAR THINGS AND THEY'VE MADE REAL DISCOVERIES. TO ME, THIS IS IN THE TRADITION WHERE, IN OUR SOCIETY PARTICULARLY, WE HAVE A LONG TRADITION OF MAINSTREAM PEOPLE -- THE FOUNDING FATHERS, FOR EXAMPLE. A LOT OF AMATEUR SCIENTISTS THERE -- RATHER THAN JUST LISTENING TO EXPERTS TELL YOU THE WAY THINGS ARE.

JESS>> IT'S DIFFICULT TO BE A BACKYARD ASTRONOMER IN AN URBAN SETTING BECAUSE OF ALL THE LIGHT FROM THE CITIES, ISN'T IT?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> IT CAN BE, ALTHOUGH THE CCD CAMERAS ARE REMARKABLY GOOD AT CUTTING THROUGH POLLUTION. THERE'S A GUY IN CONNECTICUT NAMED ROB GENLER WHO LIVES IN A LIGHT-POLLUTED AREA, ROLLS A TELESCOPE OUT ONTO HIS DRIVEWAY. HE HAS MADE PHOTOS THAT YOU WOULD THINK WERE FROM THE HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE. I'M GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY SHOWING THESE PICTURES AND PEOPLE LITERALLY GASP AT THE SIGHT OF THEM. IT'S AMAZING WHAT YOU CAN DO. EVEN WITH THE EYE, YOU CAN SEE A LOT. EVEN FROM A LIGHT-POLLUTED AREA, YOU CAN SEE THE RINGS OF SATURN AND CRATERS OF THE MOON ENOUGH TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU WANT TO GO FURTHER WITH IT.

JESS>> AND I GUESS THE ULTIMATE REWARD IS TO HAVE A COMET NAMED AFTER YOU AND, INDEED, SOME OF THE NAMED COMETS HAVE BEEN NAMED FOR AMATEURS.

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> THEY HAVE, AND THERE'S AN EXCITING NEW PROJECT WITH NASA ENLISTING AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS TO LOOK FOR PLANETS OF OTHER STARS. IF THEY PASS BETWEEN A STAR AND US, THE CHANGE IN BRIGHTNESS CAN BE MONITORED WITH EQUIPMENT THAT MANY AMATEURS HAVE. THIS RAISES THE POSSIBILITY THAT NOT ONLY NEW PLANETS COULD BE DISCOVERED BY AMATEURS, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT A BACKYARD STARGAZER WILL BE THE ONE WHO DISCOVERS THE FIRST PLANET BEYOND EARTH THAT HAS LIFE ON IT.

VAL>> NOW THIS ONE FELLOW I WAS READING ABOUT, STEPHEN JAMES O'MEARA, MAPPED RADIAL SPOKES ON SATURN'S RINGS THAT PROFESSIONALS HAD DISMISSED AS ELUSORY? HE SAW THEM AND FIGURED OUT WHAT THEY WERE?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> EVERYONE THOUGHT IT WAS AN OPTICAL ILLUSION, BUT A FEW YEARS LATER WHEN THE VOYAGER SPACECRAFT GOT TO SATURN -- I WAS OUT THERE AT JPL FOR THAT ENCOUNTER -- IN CAME THESE IMAGES AND, SURE ENOUGH --

VAL>> -- WHAT WERE THEY? RADIAL SPOKES --

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> -- WELL, APPARENTLY, IT'S DUST TRAPPED. IT'S A STATIC ELECTRICITY FIELD OF THE PLANET. IT GETS LAID DOWN PERIODICALLY ON THE RINGS AND THEN JUMPS OFF SORT OF LIKE TISSUE PAPER ON A COMB. STEPHEN ALSO WAS THE FIRST TO CORRECTLY DETERMINE THE ROTATION PERIOD OF THE PLANET URANUS, A GIANT PLANET THAT HAS ALMOST NO FEATURES. THE PROFESSIONALS GOT MUCH DIFFERENT RESULTS THAN HE DID, BUT VOYAGER GOT THERE AND STEVE WAS JUST USING HIS EYES AND WAS RIGHT ABOUT THAT ONE TOO.

JESS>> NOW YOU LIVE IN SAN FRANCISCO, BUT YOU HAVE A SETTING IN SONOMA COUNTY WHERE YOU WORK, DON'T YOU?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> I HAVE AN OBSERVATORY UP IN SONOMA COUNTY. IT'S --

VAL>> -- YOUR OWN PRIVATE OBSERVATORY?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> YEAH, IT'S GREAT. IT'S LIKE SAMUEL JOHNSON SAID OF A PUB. IT'S AN INSTRUMENT FOR PRODUCING HUMAN HAPPINESS (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) AND WHAT CAN YOU SEE AT YOUR OBSERVATORY?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> OH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE FOR BILLIONS OF LIGHT YEARS. YOU CAN SEE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF GALAXIES.

VAL>> HAVE YOU DISCOVERED ANYTHING THAT'S --

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> -- I HAVEN'T DISCOVERED ANYTHING PARTICULARLY BECAUSE, FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS, I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS BOOK AND TRYING OUT ALL KINDS OF OBSERVING TECHNIQUES SO I COULD WRITE ABOUT THEM. I'M AFRAID I'VE BECOME SORT OF A PROFESSIONAL DILETTANTE, BUT I STILL HOPE THAT MAYBE I'LL MAKE SOME ACTUAL CONTRIBUTION ONE DAY.

VAL>> SO DO YOU THINK THAT AMATEUR ASTRONOMY WILL GROW BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING SUBSTANTIVE TO THE SCIENCE?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> THAT'S THE MOTIVE FOR SOME PEOPLE. OTHERS JUST FOR THE BEAUTY OF THINGS. ALSO, THERE ARE A LOT OF TELESCOPES NOW THAT ARE MUCH EASIER TO USE. THERE ARE GO-TO TELESCOPES WHERE YOU JUST SET IT UP AND YOU TELL IT WHAT OBJECT YOU WANT TO SEE AND IT GOES WOOSH AND IT POINTS AT IT SO YOU CAN GET STARTED --

JESS>> -- EARLIER YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS BEING INEXPENSIVE. THAT DOESN'T SOUND INEXPENSIVE.

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> WELL, A GO-TO TELESCOPE CURRENTLY CAN COST CLOSE TO A THOUSAND DOLLARS, BUT THE PRICE IS COMING DOWN.

VAL>> AND EVEN THEN, THAT'S NOT TOO BAD.

JESS>> NO.

VAL>> YOU CAN SPEND THAT MUCH ON GOING OUT TO DINNER EVERY YEAR.

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) YOU GO TO THE BEST PLACES.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) NOT ONE DINNER --

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S A GOOD DINNER.

JESS>> OUR THANKS TO TIMOTHY FERRIS FOR BEING WITH US. UC BERKELEY?

TIMOTHY FERRIS>> YES.

VAL>> AGAIN, THE BOOK IS CALLED "SEEING IN THE DARK: HOW BACKYARD STARGAZERS ARE PROBING DEEP SPACE AND GUARDING EARTH FROM INTERPLANETARY PERIL".

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT. GO TO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG FOR TRANSCRIPTS, AUDIO AND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES AND, IF YOU MISSED LAST WEEK'S SPECIAL SERIES ON CHILDHOOD OBESITY, YOU CAN STILL FIND IT ON THE WEBSITE ALONG WITH ALL SORTS OF GREAT INFORMATION ON THE STORIES THERE.

JESS>> AND DON'T FORGET THAT WE'LL HAVE THE COMPLETE REBROADCAST OF THE DAVIS-SIMON DEBATE TONIGHT AT 11:00.

VAL>> FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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