11/5/02

LC021105

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> WHEN YOU WAKE UP TOMORROW, WILL LOS ANGELES BE A CITY DIVIDED? THE POLLSTERS THINK THEY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT, BUT THE VOTERS SAY STAY TUNED.

DAVID ELSKY>> I DON’T KNOW THAT IT’S GOING TO PASS. HOWEVER, IT’S GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WAKE UP SOME OF THOSE FOLKS DOWNTOWN MAYBE.

VAL>> SO HOW FED UP ARE YOU WITH ALL THE POLITICAL MUDSLINGING FROM THE PAST EIGHT MONTHS? WELL, TONIGHT WE’LL SEE HOW THIS YEAR’S UNINSPIRING CAMPAIGNS HAVE AFFECTED VOTER TURNOUT AND WE’LL GET SOME EXPERT ANALYSIS FROM OUR OWN PATT MORRISON.

JESS>> AND THEN WE’LL TALK WITH ONE MAN WHO’S ACTUALLY SAD TO SEE THE ELECTION SEASON COME TO AN END. IT’S GIVEN HIM PLENTY OF MATERIAL FOR THE CARTOONS HE DRAWS FOR THE LOS ANGELES TIMES EDITORIAL PAGES. TONIGHT MICHAEL RAMIREZ IS HERE WITH A FEW PARTING SHOTS.

VAL>> IT’S ALL PART OF OUR SPECIAL COVERAGE OF ELECTION NIGHT, NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. A HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW, WILL THIS BE REMEMBERED AS ONE OF THE MOST HISTORIC DAYS IN THE HISTORY OF LOS ANGELES, THE ELECTION WHEN VOTERS DECIDED WHETHER TO SPLIT THE CITY APART?

VAL>> WE WON’T KNOW HOW THE STORY ENDS FOR AT LEAST A FEW MORE HOURS, BUT, WIN OR LOSE, THE SECESSION FIGHT MAY HAVE SENT CITY HALL A WAKEUP CALL IT CAN’T IGNORE. TONIGHT GAY YEE TELLS US WHAT SOME VOTERS HAD ON THEIR MINDS AS THEY HELPED DECIDE THE FATE OF A CITY.

GAY YEE>> THE DECISION TO BREAK APART ONE OF THE WORLD’S BEST-KNOWN BIG CITIES ISN’T ONE LEFT ONLY TO THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY OR HOLLYWOOD. ALL ANGELENOS HAVE A SAY AND THEY VOICED IT TODAY AT THE POLLS. IN SHERMAN OAKS, THE HEART OF THE VALLEY WHERE SECESSION FEVER STARTED, VOTERS FINALLY GOT THEIR LONG-AWAITED DAY OF RECKONING.

DAVID ELSKY>> I THINK THAT THE L.A. CITY, IN ITS ARROGANCE, HAS JUST KIND OF SKIPPED THE VALLEY TOTALLY.

GAY YEE>> AND ACROSS THE HILL TO SOUTH CENTRAL L.A., SEPARATED FROM THE VALLEY BY MORE THAN JUST TERRAIN, VOTERS ALSO HAD THEIR SAY.

>> I VOTED NO.

GAY YEE>> HOW COME?

>> BECAUSE WHY DO WE WANT TO SEPARATE THE THING? THEN WE WOULD BE LIKE LITTLE TOWNS IN A LARGE CITY? WE DON’T NEED TO SEPARATE. WE NEED TO STAY TOGETHER.

GAY YEE>> BUT EVEN IN THE AREAS THAT HAVE SO LITTLE IN COMMON, MANY VOTERS SHARED ONE THING: AN AMBIVALENCE TOWARDS THE MEASURES THAT COULD FOREVER CHANGE LOS ANGELES.

>> I DECIDED TO VOTE AGAINST IT RELUCTANTLY BECAUSE I’D LIKE TO SEE SOME CHANGES, BUT I WASN’T CONVINCED THAT THESE CHANGES WERE THE RIGHT CHANGES.

>> I JUST DON’T BELIEVE THAT WE CAN SEE EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING THAT GLITTERS ISN’T GOLD. EVERYTHING ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE GRASS IS NOT ALWAYS GREENER OVER THERE.

GAY YEE>> PROPONENTS OF MEASURES F AND H SAY VICTORY WOULD MEAN FREEING HOLLYWOOD AND THE VALLEY FROM DECADES OF POTHOLES AND NEGLECT. VOTERS IN SOUTH CENTRAL SAY THEY’VE LIVED WITH THE SAME PROBLEMS FOR YEARS. YOU DON’T SEE THEM TRYING TO ABANDON SHIP.

>> YOU DRIVE AROUND HERE, WE GOT A BUNCH OF POTHOLES. THEY’RE DOING STUFF NOW BECAUSE IT’S THE ELECTION. EVERYBODY WANTS TO PUT THEIR BEST SUIT ON WHEN THE ELECTION COMES AROUND. THESE SAME PEOPLE DOWN HERE NOW, SOON AS THE ELECTION’S OVER, YOU DON’T SEE THEM NO MORE UNTIL IT’S TIME THEY NEED OUR VOTE AGAIN.

>> IT’S THE SAME WAY IT IS HERE. YOU DON’T GET A POLICE OFFICER UNLESS SOMEBODY DONE KILLED SOMEBODY OR SOMETHING.

GAY YEE>> BUT OTHERS SAY MORE POWER TO THEM.

>> IF THEY’RE GOING TO MAKE IT, THEY’RE GOING TO MAKE IT. GLENDALE MADE IT AND WEST HOLLYWOOD MADE IT. THEY’RE MAKING IT, SO GIVE THEM A CHANCE.

>> I WOULDN’T LIKE FOR SOMEONE TO TELL ME I CAN’T LIVE OVER HERE OR I COULDN’T LIVE OVER THERE.

GAY YEE>> SO IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE L.A.?

>> I WOULD GO, AND I THINK THE VALLEY HAS THAT RIGHT.

GAY YEE>> SHERMAN OAKS RESIDENT, DAVID ELSKY, SAYS AFTER LIVING HERE THIRTY YEARS AND WATCHING HIS COMPLAINTS GO UNHEEDED, FINALLY THERE’S A WAY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

DAVID ELSKY>> THEY HAVE THEIR FIEFDOMS. THEY DON’T DO ANYTHING. YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN WHAT GOES ON HERE. THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN WHAT GOES ON OUTSIDE THEIR OWN OFFICE DOORS.

GAY YEE>> OTHER VALLEY RESIDENTS VOICED SIMILAR FRUSTRATION, BUT WHEN IT CAME DOWN TO CASTING A VOTE, THEY WEREN’T CONVINCED THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE ANY BETTER. THEY COMPLAINED THE FUTURE PICTURE PAINTED BY PRO SECESSIONISTS IS SIMPLY TOO VAGUE AND THE LINEUP OF PEOPLE RUNNING FOR OFFICE IN THE NEW CITIES TOO UNKNOWN.

>> I JUST DON’T THINK IT’S SPECIFIC ENOUGH AND I DON’T THINK THAT -- THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS THAT WERE UNCERTAIN. IT WAS, OH, WE’LL FIX THAT LATER ON. IT WAS THAT KIND OF THING THAT JUST -- AND THE CONCEPT TO ME THAT IT WOULD MEAN ANOTHER LAYER OF POLITICIANS.

GAY YEE>> CLAREMONT GOVERNMENT STUDIES PROFESSOR, JACK PITNEY, SAYS IT’S NOT SURPRISING.

JACK PITNEY>> AND THE CONTRAST BETWEEN WHAT YOU KNOW, THE DEVIL YOU KNOW VERSUS THE DEVIL YOU DON’T KNOW, AND PEOPLE STUCK WITH THE DEVIL THEY KNEW.

GAY YEE>> PITNEY SAYS, AS A GENERAL RULE, IT’S USUALLY EASIER TO BEAT SOMETHING THAN TO PASS IT BECAUSE WHAT’S BEING PROPOSED IS BASICALLY UNKNOWN.

JACK PITNEY>> IT’S INHERENT IN A MOVEMENT LIKE THIS BECAUSE YOU REALLY CAN’T SAY WHAT THE CITY GOVERNMENT’S GOING TO DO UNTIL THE CITY GOVERNMENT EXISTS AND YOU DON’T HAVE A CITY GOVERNMENT UNTIL YOU HAVE A CITY, SO THAT’S THE GREAT PARADOX.

GAY YEE>> IF THE MEASURES GO DOWN IN DEFEAT, AS SOME POLLS INDICATE, SUPPORTERS OF THE BREAKAWAY EFFORT SAY, AT THE VERY LEAST, CITY LEADERS HAVE BEEN GIVEN A WAKEUP CALL.

JACK PITNEY>> I THINK POLITICIANS ALWAYS READ ELECTION RETURNS. EVEN WITH THE DEFEAT OF THE MEASURE, POLITICIANS ARE GOING TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DISCONTENT THERE. THEY DODGED THE BULLET THIS TIME, BUT THE AMMUNITION AND THE GUN POWDER ARE STILL THERE.

GAY YEE>> AND PROFESSOR PITNEY SAYS CITY LEADERS REALIZE THE KIND OF DISSATISFACTION THAT SPURRED THE BREAKAWAY MOVEMENT ISN’T THE SORT THAT WOULD JUST FADE AWAY.

JESS>> GAY YEE JOINS US NOW. SO THE ATTENTION THAT THE VALLEY AND HOLLYWOOD HAVE BEEN GETTING IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS, A LOT OF ATTENTION FROM CITY HALL --

GAY YEE>> -- A LOT OF ATTENTION.

JESS>> -- WILL THAT CONTINUE TOMORROW?

GAY YEE>> THEY’RE WONDERING. THEY ARE WONDERING, BUT THEY FEEL THAT, IF THE VOTE GOES AGAINST SECESSION, AT LEAST THE CIVIC LEADERS KNOW THAT THEY’RE DISSATISFIED, THEY’RE UNHAPPY, THEY EXPECT SOME CHANGES AND THEY WANT TO SEE THEM NOW.

VAL>> AND, OF COURSE, THE QUESTION IS, WILL HAHN NOT ONLY WITHDRAW SERVICES IF SECESSION FAILS, BUT WILL HE TAKE ANY KIND OF REVENGE ON PEOPLE WHO WERE PRO SECESSION?

GAY YEE>> AMONG THE PEOPLE WE SPOKE TO, YOU DIDN’T GET THAT SENTIMENT. I THINK THAT THIS WAS A JARRING EXPERIENCE FOR THE CITY THAT PEOPLE WERE THAT DEAD SERIOUS. I THINK PERHAPS WHAT MAY HAVE HAPPENED IS IT LOST STEAM IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS PERHAPS BECAUSE THEY WERE OUTSPENT. HAHN PUT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TOWARDS L.A. UNITED, A HUGE CAMPAIGN. THEY DIDN’T HAVE THE UNIONS OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, WALKING THE TURF THROUGH THE PRECINCTS HANDING OUT FLIERS. THEY JUST DIDN’T HAVE THE POWER THAT HAHN HAD AND THAT’S THE OVERALL FEELING MANY OF THE PEOPLE HAD.

JESS>> IF IT FAILS, WILL VALLEY RESIDENTS AND HOLLYWOOD RESIDENTS WIND UP BEING EMBITTERED?

GAY YEE>> I NEVER GOT THAT SENSE. I GOT MORE OF A SENSE OF LET’S WAIT AND SEE. WHAT WAS VERY INTERESTING, WHEN WE WERE AT THE TWO PRECINCTS. WE WERE AT ONE INNER CITY PRECINCT, WE WERE AT ONE VALLEY PRECINCT. ODDLY ENOUGH, I GOT MORE PRO SECESSION PEOPLE IN THE INNER CITY SAYING IF THEY WANT TO GO, WE UNDERSTAND, LET THEM GO (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WE WILL FIND OUT FOR SURE HOPEFULLY BY THE END OF THE EVENING. GAY YEE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, MAYOR JAMES HAHN DROPS BY FOR A LIVE INTERVIEW. WE WILL PUT QUESTIONS TO HIM WHEN HE DROPS BY TOMORROW. WE’LL ALSO LOOK AT ALL THE OTHER BIG ISSUES BESIDES SECESSION INCLUDING, OF COURSE, ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER’S MEASURE. THAT WILL BE ON OUR SPECIAL THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION DAY, WHAT WE CALL OUR HANGOVER SHOW, WEDNESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 ON A SPECIAL LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> AFTER THE CIVIL WAR ENDED, ABRAHAM LINCOLN REFUSED TO LISTEN TO MEMBERS OF HIS CABINET WHO URGED HIM TO PUNISH THE SOUTH FOR SECEDING. CAN WE EXPECT JAMES HAHN TO SHOW THE SAME SENSE OF FORGIVENESS TO THE VALLEY AND TO HOLLYWOOD IF SECESSION GOES DOWN TO DEFEAT?

VAL>> WELL, WE KNOW THAT PATT MORRISON HAS A FEW THOUGHTS ON THAT AND MAYBE SOME ADVICE FOR FOLKS AT CITY HALL. ALSO JOINING US TONIGHT IS PROFESSOR FERNANDO GUERRA. HE IS DIRECTOR OF LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY’S CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF LOS ANGELES. WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU. GREAT TO SEE YOU.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

JESS>> THIS HAS GIVEN YOU SPECIAL INSIGHT INTO THE STUDY OF THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES, HASN’T IT?

PATT MORRISON>> PLURAL CITIES NOW (LAUGHTER).

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WELL, THAT’S RIGHT. OH, ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, IT ALLOWED US TO SEE HOW PEOPLE COULD EXPRESS A VISION FOR THE CITY, WHAT THE ISSUES WERE. I MEAN, IF ANYTHING ABOUT THE SECESSIONISTS AND THE SECESSIONIST MOVEMENT, IT ALLOWED US TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE WANT TO SEE IN A CITY AND IT TESTED OUR LEADERS TO DEFEND THE CITY EITHER PASSIONATELY OR INTELLECTUALLY. IN SOME RESPECTS, THEY WERE UP TO IT. IN OTHER RESPECTS, THEY WERE NOT.

VAL>> NOW ANOTHER ISSUE IS WHETHER JAMES HAHN -- I THINK THIS WAS IN YOUR COLUMN TODAY, PATT -- WHETHER JAMES HAHN IS GOING TO MAKE A BEELINE TO SACRAMENTO TO STOP ANY FUTURE SECESSION ATTEMPTS.

PATT MORRISON>> WELL, IF THIS IS THE IDEA OF THE DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE TO SECESSION, WHICH IS EXPECTED TO LOSE IN ANY CASE, THAT YOU GO UP TO SACRAMENTO AND MAKE SURE THERE'S A LAW THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T DO THIS AGAIN BECAUSE IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE AND SCARED EVERYBODY IN LOS ANGELES, THAT DOES NOT SEEM VERY DEMOCRATIC AT ALL AND KEEPS EVERYONE FROM EXPRESSING THEIR POINT OF VIEW.

JESS>> AND ALSO COULDN'T POSSIBLY PASS CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER.

PATT MORRISON>> PROBABLY NOT, BUT IF THIS IS THE IDEA -- CITY HALL'S IDEA IS GOING TO BE CELEBRATING THE FACT THAT SECESSION LOST NOT BY RESPONDING TO THEIR CONCERNS, BUT BY SHUTTING THEM DOWN AND SHUTTING THEM OUT, THIS SETS A VERY BAD TONE FOR THE REST OF THE CITY.

VAL>> YOU WERE ALSO SAYING IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE -- ASSUMING SECESSION FAILS -- IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE FOR THE HAHN PEOPLE TO THROW UP THEIR HANDS AND DECLARE SOME MASSIVE VICTORY HERE.

PATT MORRISON>> OH, IF THEY'RE GOING AROUND CITY HALL DOING HIGH-FIVES TOMORROW MORNING, I THINK WE'RE ALL ENTITLED TO BE OFFENDED BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE MOOD. IT SHOULDN'T BE CELEBRATORY. IT SHOULD BE SAYING, ALL RIGHT, WHAT HAPPENED THAT GOT IT THIS FAR IN THE FIRST PLACE? WE'RE PLAYING BRINKMANSHIP WITH THIS, WITH CIVIL POLITICS, AND HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> I THINK WE CAN GIVE THEM A WEEK TO CELEBRATE AND HAVE A COUPLE OF HIGH-FIVES FOR A WHILE --

PATT MORRISON>> -- OH, YOU'RE SO GENEROUS (LAUGHTER).

FERNANDO GUERRA>> -- BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS TO BE A SUBSTANTIVE RESPONSE. I THINK THE HAHN ADMINISTRATION, IN ITS FIRST TERM, IS GOING TO BE DEFINED NOT ONLY BY THIS VICTORY AGAINST THE SECESSIONISTS, BUT HOW IT RESPONDS. AND IT WILL BE KNOWN MORE FOR HOW IT RESPONDS OVER THE NEXT SIX MONTHS. TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS DOESN'T OCCUR AGAIN, WHETHER THEY GO UP TO SACRAMENTO OR NOT. THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO DEFINE JIMMY HAHN'S ADMINISTRATION AND WHETHER OR NOT HE HAS A SERIOUS OPPOSITION IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

JESS>> WOULDN'T YOU FULLY EXPECT HIM TO BE CONCILIATORY? TO BE GENEROUS TO THE VALLEY AND TO HOLLYWOOD?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> OH, ABSOLUTELY. I THINK HE'S GOING TO TRY TO CO-OP AND INCORPORATE MANY OF THE IDEAS, MANY OF THE PERSONALITIES, IN TERMS OF HOW DO WE THEN DEFINE WHAT WE WANT TO DO. IT WOULD BE A VERY SMART POLITICAL MOVE AND, IF ANYTHING, JIM HAHN HAS ALWAYS BEEN A VERY GOOD INSIDE-POLITICS TYPE OF GUY WHO UNDERSTANDS WHO NEEDS TO BE AT THE TABLE AND HE'S GOING TO DO THAT.

PATT MORRISON>> TO PARAPHRASE LINCOLN, "TO BIND UP THE NATION'S WOUNDS, TO BIND UP THE CITY'S WOUNDS". BUT IF HE ONLY BRINGS TO THE TABLE THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE MOST NOISE ABOUT THIS AND IGNORES THE CONCERNS OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE OUT THERE VOTING THEIR HEARTS ON THIS, I THINK THERE IS A SERIOUS POLITICAL MISTAKE.

JESS>> WE'RE ALL BASING THIS ON THE PRESUMPTION THAT SECESSION HAS FAILED.

PATT MORRISON>> WE'LL KNOW IN AN HOUR.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WE'LL KNOW IN AN HOUR, BUT ALL INDICATIONS ARE -- I MEAN, SO FAR IN THE NATIONAL TRENDS IN TERMS OF THE ELECTIONS, THERE'S BEEN ABSOLUTELY NO SURPRISES AND I CERTAINLY DON'T EXPECT A SURPRISE HERE IN LOS ANGELES.

PATT MORRISON>> BUT WHAT THE INTERESTING VOTES WILL BE ARE WHETHER OR NOT IT FAILED IN THE VALLEY OR IN HOLLYWOOD. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S GOING TO FAIL IN HOLLYWOOD. IT'S A CLOSE CALL IN THE VALLEY, BUT I EVEN THINK IT'S GOING TO FAIL IN THE VALLEY.

VAL>> ALL INDICATIONS ARE ALSO SAYING THAT GRAY DAVIS WILL BE OUR GOVERNOR FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.

PATT MORRISON>> THAT'S NOT WHAT EVERYBODY'S REALLY GOING TO BE WATCHING. WHAT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE WATCHING, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE EARLIER, IS HOW PETER CAMEJO, THE GREEN CANDIDATE, DOES. IF HE BREAKS DOUBLE DIGITS AND GRAY DAVIS FAILS TO GET FIFTY PERCENT, THAT WILL SET AN AMAZING PRECEDENT FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE --

VAL>> -- OH, REALLY? DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT HAPPEN FOR CAMEJO?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WELL, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSE FOR DAVIS NOT TO GET FIFTY PERCENT. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THERE ARE MANY EXECUTIVES WHO WIN WITH LESS THAN FIFTY PERCENT. BILL CLINTON, THE FIRST TIME HE WON, WAS LESS THAN FIFTY PERCENT. BUT THE TREND HAS NEVER -- I KNOW OF NO CASE WHERE AN EXECUTIVE, A GOVERNOR OR A PRESIDENT, WINS WITH OVER FIFTY PERCENT AND THEN GETS RE-ELECTED WITH LESS THAN FIFTY PERCENT. THAT WOULD BE A VERY INTERESTING DYNAMIC.

JESS>> AND THE CAMEJO VOTE IS JUST A PROTEST VOTE, WOULDN'T YOU SAY?

PATT MORRISON>> I THINK THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME SINCERE CAMEJO VOTERS, BUT I KNOW OF A LOT OF PROTEST VOTES. I RAN INTO MANY PEOPLE WHO CAST PROTEST VOTES FOR CAMEJO BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO VOTE FOR SIMON, BUT THEY WERE DISGUSTED WITH THE WAY GRAY DAVIS WAS RUNNING HIS ELECTION. AND YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT, FOUR YEARS AGO, HE WON BY TWENTY POINTS AGAINST DAN LUNGREN, A PROFESSIONAL CAREER POLITICIAN WITH SOLID CONSERVATIVE CREDENTIALS. AND HE CAN GET MAYBE SIX OR EIGHT POINTS, WE THINK, IN A MARGIN AGAINST BILL SIMON WHOSE NEVER RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE.

VAL>> BUT YOU THINK DAVIS COULD TAKE OFFICE WITH LESS THAN FIFTY PERCENT OF THE VOTE?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> ABSOLUTELY. YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE MORE VOTES THAN THE OTHER CANDIDATES. WITH THE COMBINED THIRD PARTY CANDIDATES TAKING DOUBLE DIGITS, YOU CAN HAVE SIMON AT OR AROUND THIRTY-NINE OR FORTY PERCENT AND, WITH GRAY, FORTY-SEVEN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

JESS>> WILL GRAY DAVIS BE EMBOLDENED IF THERE IS A DEMOCRATIC SWEEP OF ALL THE STATEWIDE OFFICES WHICH IS POSSIBLE BUT NOT LIKELY?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WELL, I CERTAINLY HOPE SO, BUT WHY WOULD WE EXPECT GRAY DAVIS TO CHANGE AFTER A CAREER OF BEING A VERY CAUTIOUS POLITICIAN? I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY HE GOVERNS.

PATT MORRISON>> HE HAD A TWENTY POINT ADVANTAGE LAST TIME AROUND AND A DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATURE. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. WHY, WITH A NARROWER MARGIN, WOULD HE SEE FIT TO DO IT DIFFERENT?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> THE ONE DIFFERENCE WOULD BE THAT HE WAS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A RE-ELECTION AND NOW, IF HE'S SINCERE ABOUT THE STATE AND NOT LOOKING FOR THE PRESIDENCY (LAUGHTER), I THINK HE'LL BE MUCH MORE SERIOUS ABOUT GOVERNING THE NEXT FOUR YEARS. HOW THAT MANIFESTS ITSELF, THOUGH, GIVEN THE PATTERN OF --

JESS>> -- WELL, IF HE'S SERIOUS ABOUT NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, HE WON'T HAVE TO SPEND THAT MUCH TIME FUNDRAISING.

PATT MORRISON>> WHAT WILL HE DO WITH HIMSELF? (LAUGHTER)

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) GOVERN?

PATT MORRISON>> (LAUGHTER) WHAT A RADICAL SUGGESTION, JESS.

VAL>> BILL SIMON. HOW WILL HE GO DOWN IN HISTORY, OR A MERE FOOTNOTE?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WELL, I WOULD HAVE SAID THE WORST CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR IN THIS CENTURY, WHICH IS EASY SINCE THE CENTURY HAS JUST BEGUN, BUT CERTAINLY IN THE LAST FORTY YEARS. I SAID THAT OF LUNGREN AND SAID NO ONE'S GOING TO GET WORSE. I SAID THAT OF KATHLEEN BROWN AND SAID THAT NO ONE'S GOING TO GET WORSE.

VAL>> AND SOMEONE DID.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> EACH ELECTION.

PATT MORRISON>> YOU THINK OF BILL SIMON AS KIND OF THE SACRIFICIAL OFFERING THAT THE OLD REPUBLICAN PARTY IN CALIFORNIA MADE ON THE ALTAR OF ITS OWN PRINCIPLES. IT HAS HAPPENED IN SO MANY ELECTIONS. THE REPUBLICANS PUT FORWARD A CANDIDATE OF PRINCIPLE WHO ENDS UP NEVER GETTING IN OFFICE. THEY WOULD RATHER BE RIGHT THAN PRESIDENT WHEN IT COMES TO CALIFORNIA.

JESS>> WILL THIS CHANGE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

PATT MORRISON>> I DON'T KNOW. THAT, I THINK, IS THE BIG QUESTION OUT OF THIS ELECTION.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> THE INTERESTING THING IS THAT, IF THERE IS A DEMOCRATIC SWEEP AS I PREDICT IN ALL STATEWIDE OFFICES FROM GOVERNOR ON DOWN TO SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, INSURANCE COMMISSIONER, ETC., IT THEN OPENS UP THE POSSIBILITY FOR REPUBLICANS TO LOOK AT, OKAY, WHO DO WE NOMINATE? THEY GET NAMES LIKE ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER AND OTHERS, SINCE WE DON'T HAVE A SITTING REPUBLICAN STATEWIDE ELECTED OFFICIAL.

VAL>> INTERESTING. SO IT REALLY OPENS THE DOORS FOR NEWCOMERS.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> I'M TOLD THAT TODAY, THOSE WHO VOTED, WILL BE THE LAST TIME THAT WE ACTUALLY GET TO PUNCH THOSE LITTLE HOLES WITH THE --

PATT MORRISON>> -- CHADS?

VAL>> YEAH.

PATT MORRISON>> THE END OF CHADS.

VAL>> AND THAT TOUCH-SCREEN HIGH-TECH VOTING IS ON ITS WAY TO CALIFORNIA.

PATT MORRISON>> I THINK THEY JUST WANT OUR FINGERPRINTS ON THE BALLOT, THAT'S WHY (LAUGHTER).

FERNANDO GUERRA>> WELL, I KNOW I CHECK FOR CHADS WHEN I SUBMIT MY BALLOT, BUT CERTAINLY GIVEN THAT WE ARE THE HIGH-TECH STATE WHERE WE HAVE SILICON VALLEY, THAT WE CANNOT IMPROVE IN TERMS OF SUCH AN IMPORTANT PROCESS, THAT WE CONSIDER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTICIPATION ONE OF THE HIGHEST VALUES, AND YET WE REFUSE TO INVEST IN TERMS OF THE MONEY THAT IT WOULD TAKE TO INCORPORATE TECHNOLOGY, IT JUST BAFFLES ME.

VAL>> BUT WE ARE INVESTING, NO? AREN'T THEY TAKING AN INTEREST?

FERNANDO GUERRA>> FINALLY, BUT IT'S STILL GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT LONGER. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME DIFFICULTIES IN IMPLEMENTATION, AS THEY HAD IN FLORIDA THIS PAST PRIMARY. HOPEFULLY, THEY IRONED THAT OUT. I HAVE NOT HEARD OF ANY HORROR STORIES SO FAR FROM FLORIDA, BUT IT'S NOT OVER. YOU KNOW, FLORIDA IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE TEST CASE AND WHAT WE TAKE A LOOK AT.

JESS>> YOU MENTION INVESTING. WE'LL BE INVESTING IN SCHOOLS, WE'LL BE TAXING OURSELVES TO TAKE CARE OF EMERGENCY HOSPITAL CARE.

PATT MORRISON>> I THINK THAT THE LOCAL MEASURES, THE TRAUMA CARE MEASURE, IS PROBABLY GOING TO PASS. WHETHER K PASSES, THE SCHOOL FUNDING ONE, ALSO IT NEEDS A HIGHER PERCENTAGE THAN JUST A SIMPLE MAJORITY. I THINK PEOPLE ARE STILL A LITTLE ANNOYED ABOUT THE WAY THAT PROP BB FUNDS WERE SPENT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> IT'S NOT ONLY THAT. THE INTERESTING THING IS, AS THE WORLD GETS MORE COMPLEX, WE ARE ASKING VOTERS TO MAKE EVEN MORE COMPLEX DECISIONS, WHETHER IT'S PROPOSITION 49 OR PROPOSITION 51. AT THE SAME TIME, THE CAMPAIGNS ARE GETTING MORE SIMPLISTIC IN THEIR COMMUNICATION. MORE COMPLEX IDEAS, MORE SIMPLISTIC CAMPAIGNING, GIVES AN INCREDIBLE VOLATILITY TO THE ELECTION.

VAL>> FERNANDO GUERRA, PATT MORRISON, ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU HERE. WE OUGHT TO HAVE AN ELECTION MORE OFTEN AND SEE YOU GUYS MORE OFTEN. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

PATT MORRISON>> OH, YEAH.

VAL>> SO YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE GLAD THE ELECTION IS ALMOST HISTORY? WELL, WE KNOW THAT ONE MAN IS ACTUALLY FEELING KIND OF SAD TONIGHT. THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S BEEN HAVING LOTS OF FUN AT THE EXPENSE OF SOME OF THOSE PUFFED-UP POLITICIANS. YOU KNOW HIS CARTOONS FROM THE LOS ANGELES TIMES EDITORIAL PAGE AND, COMING UP, THE MAN WHO DRAWS THEM, MICHAEL RAMIREZ.

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JESS>> AS I WAS ABOUT TO SAY, THERE'S AN OLD SAYING ABOUT POLITICS AND THE PRESS. NEVER MESS WITH ANYONE WHO BUYS INK BY THE BARREL. THAT SAME WARNING MIGHT APPLY TO A JOURNALIST WHO CAN DRAW AS WELL AS OUR NEXT GUEST.

VAL>> MICHAEL RAMIREZ IS THE PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING EDITORIAL CARTOONIST FOR THE LOS ANGELES TIMES AND HE IS HERE TO SHARE SOME OF HIS THOUGHTS AND HIS WORK ABOUT THE BIG RACES AND THE PEOPLE BEHIND THEM. WELCOME. NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

JESS>> THIS GAVE YOU ALL KINDS OF MATERIAL, DIDN'T IT?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS SAY THAT POLITICIANS ARE THE BEST GAG WRITERS IN THE BUSINESS AND IT'S ALWAYS SAD WHEN WE COME TO THE END OF AN ELECTION CYCLE, BUT THEN THE FUN BEGINS.

VAL>> SO WHO DID YOU HAVE THE MOST FUN WITH THIS TIME?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YOU KNOW, I THINK OUR GUBERNATORIAL RACE WAS JUST ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC FOR POLITICAL CARTOONING. HERE YOU HAD TWO VERY INEPT POLITICIANS AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BOTH REALLY DYING FROM SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS.

VAL>> WHAT HAVE WE GOT HERE?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> ONE OF THE FIRST CARTOONS I DID WAS AFTER THE PRIMARY WHEN SIMON AND DAVIS WON. HERE I HAVE BILL SIMON AND HE'S BEEN JABBED BY RIORDAN AND JONES, AND DAVIS HAS BEEN JABBED BY HIMSELF.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) DAVIS, DAVIS, DAVIS, ALL AROUND HIM.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YOU COULD ACTUALLY REUSE THIS CARTOON AND THEN HAVE DAVIS JABBING HIMSELF AND SIMON JABBING HIMSELF. I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU, I KNEW THAT, GOING INTO THE ELECTION BOOTH, I CAN VOTE FOR EITHER ONE AND HAVE A SUCCESSFUL POLITICAL CARTOONING CAREER FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS AT LEAST (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) NOW YOU ALSO TOOK POTSHOTS AT SOME OF THE -- OH, NO, THIS IS DAVIS TOO.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YEAH, THIS IS STILL THE GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION HERE. HERE I HAVE DAVIS AND HE'S SAYING, "PROSTITUTION? NO, I LIKE TO CALL IT GOVERNING."

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) OF COURSE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THE MONEY HE TAKES. SOME PEOPLE CALL IT QUID PRO QUO.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY. THIS CAMPAIGN SEEMED TO LEND ITSELF TO THESE KINDS OF ISSUES. DAVIS, I THINK, RAISED SOMETHING LIKE $67 MILLION DOLLARS, WHICH IS JUST A PHENOMENAL AMOUNT OF MONEY. HERE I HAVE BILL SIMON TAKING A SHOT AT THE OTHER SIDE. I'VE GOT THE CHP OFFICE AND THEY'RE SAYING, "NO, WE CAN'T ISSUE AN AMBER ALERT FOR BILL SIMON'S CAMPAIGN."

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) PATT, YOU HAD FUN WITH VERBAL CARTOONS TOO DURING THIS CAMPAIGN.

PATT MORRISON>> WELL, MICHAEL MAY REMEMBER THIS. IN MY COLUMN, I POINTED OUT THAT THE LEGISLATURE ADJOURNS EVERY SESSION IN MEMORY OF SOMEONE OF NOTE WHO HAS DIED, AT THE REQUEST OF ONE OF THE MEMBERS. ONE OF THE DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS STOOD UP ABOUT A MONTH AGO AND ASKED THAT THE SESSION BE ADJOURNED IN MEMORY OF THE BILL SIMON CAMPAIGN (LAUGHTER). THE CAMPAIGN WAS DOING SO BADLY FOR SO LONG THAT IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS DOA ALREADY.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> AND, YOU KNOW, THE AMAZING THING ABOUT THIS CAMPAIGN IS HERE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ANYONE REALLY TO UNSEAT THIS GOVERNOR. HE'S WIDELY UNPOPULAR, FULL OF ALL KINDS OF ETHNICAL DILEMMAS, AND YET IT TOOK SOMEBODY REALLY, REALLY WITH AN INEPT CAMPAIGN TO TRIP AND FALL SHORT, AND IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S DONE THAT.

JESS>> BOTH RAN A BAD CAMPAIGN, BUT WERE YOU EVEN-HANDED IN YOUR TREATMENT OF THESE TWO CANDIDATES?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO SAY THAT I'M AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY OFFENDER, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SOME PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUES THAT I WANT TO PROJECT IN MY CARTOONS. YOU KNOW, I WAS KIND OF ROOTING FOR A CHANGE. NOW THE EVIL PART OF ME WANTED TO CONTINUE THIS GOVERNORSHIP BECAUSE HE'S BEEN TERRIFIC FOR MY LINE OF WORK.

PATT MORRISON>> NOW, MICHAEL, I WANT TO ASK YOU, USUALLY YOU GET HATE MAIL LEAPING TO THE DEFENSE OF SOMEONE YOU HAVE SAVAGED. OF COURSE, YOU DO. I DO TOO AND I LOVE IT. BUT DID YOU GET HATE MAIL DEFENDING GRAY DAVIS, DEFENDING BILL SIMON, OR WAS THERE LESS OF IT THIS TIME BECAUSE BOTH OF THEM WERE SO UNPOPULAR?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU USUALLY GET EQUAL AMOUNTS NO MATTER WHAT, BUT THERE WERE LESS MAIL DEFENDING EITHER CANDIDATE. NORMALLY WHEN YOU PROJECT A CARTOON, BECAUSE THE WAY POLITICS ARE AND PEOPLE ARE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THE THINGS THEY BELIEVE IN, WHEN YOU SETTLE ON ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT REPRESENTS THEM, YOU USUALLY GET A FLURRY OF MAIL. IN EITHER CASE, I GOT MORE JOKE MAIL AGREEING WITH THE CARTOONS THAN I DID FOR --

FERNANDO GUERRA>> -- I HAVEN'T SENT ANY HATE MAIL IN A LONG TIME, BUT HE'S A GUY THAT I LOVE TO HATE (LAUGHTER). EVERY MORNING, YOU HAVE TO AGREE, YOU OPEN THAT UP AND YOU LOOK AT THAT AND YOU'RE ATTRACTED TO IT AND YOU WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S TRYING TO COMMUNICATE AND IT'S GREAT, BUT I HARDLY EVER AGREE WITH THE TONE OF THEM (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> NOW SECESSION. SHOW US THIS AND THEN TELL ME IF THIS ACTUALLY REFLECTS YOUR PERSONAL OPINION.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> RIGHT. YOU KNOW, SECESSION WAS A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION FOR ME. I WASN'T SURE HOW I WAS GOING TO LAND ON THE ISSUE UNTIL I SORT OF CALCULATED AND FIGURED OUT THAT YOU'RE MERELY EXCHANGING ONE BUREAUCRACY FOR ANOTHER BIG BUREAUCRACY.

JESS>> DO YOU FEEL COMPELLED AT ALL TO GO ALONG WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EDITORIAL PAGE?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M CONSTANTLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EDITORIAL PAGE. IN FACT, THIS ELECTION -- ON SUNDAY, I WAS JUST GOING TO DRAW A PICTURE OF ME HOLDING MY NOSE POINTING TOWARD THE ENDORSEMENT --

VAL>> -- BUT, HOLD ON, WE DIDN'T GET TO SEE THE DONUT, THE SECESSIONIST THING. WHAT DOES IT SAY?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> THIS ONE IS ON SECESSION. I HAVE A GUY AT A DONUT SHOP AND HE'S SAYING, "I'D LIKE SOME SERVICE, PLEASE. COULD YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE ME, BUT THEN CHARGE ME MORE?" IT SORT OF REFLECTS --

VAL>> -- AND THE DONUT FELLOW SAYS --

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> -- AND HE SAYS, "ANOTHER VALLEY SECESSIONIST", WHICH IS EXACTLY THE WAY I PERCEIVED THAT TO BE. OF COURSE, I THREW IN SOME EXTRA THINGS HERE LIKE PROPOSITION 52, "BECAUSE WE'RE JUST TOO LAZY AND WE LIKE VOTER FRAUD" (LAUGHTER). THEN I HAVE A SIGN DOWN HERE THAT SAYS, "DAVIS, THE BEST GOVERNOR MONEY CAN BUY" AND "BEST" IS CROSSED OUT.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> I LOVE THAT CARTOON BECAUSE THAT ONE REALLY DOES CAPTURE A LOT OF WHAT THE SECESSIONISTS WERE ABOUT. AND A DONUT, YOU ALSO EXPECT POLICE OFFICERS. IT WAS ALSO ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY (LAUGHTER).

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> IT JUST HAD SO MANY CONNOTATIONS TO IT.

JESS>> COVERED A LOT OF ISSUES.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> IT REALLY DID.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU MOSTLY LOVE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE AGAINST SECESSION.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> NO, NOT REALLY, BECAUSE -- I MEAN, I DID IN PART. IT WASN'T AS OFFENSIVE AS SOME OF YOUR OTHER ONES, BUT CERTAINLY IT WAS MORE EVENHANDED, THAT ONE (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> I HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH. DO YOU EVER TAKE A PARTICULAR POSITION BECAUSE YOU'VE JUST THOUGHT OF THIS GREAT PUNCH LINE THAT YOU JUST CAN'T PASS UP EVEN THOUGH YOU HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH IT?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> NO, YOU ALWAYS HAVE THOSE TEMPTATIONS. YOU KNOW, EDITORIAL CARTOONS ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING THAT ANY COLUMNIST DOES AND YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE PASSIONATELY IN THE THINGS THAT YOU PROJECT. I THINK THEY OUGHT TO BE POIGNANT. I DON'T DO HUMOROUS CARTOONS FOR THE SAKE OF HUMOR OR CONTROVERSIAL CARTOONS FOR THE SAKE OF CONTROVERSY. HOPEFULLY, I'M SELLING THESE ISSUES AND MAKING PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THEM AND MAYBE WINNING SOME -- WELL, NOT EVERYONE -- SOME OF THE PEOPLE OVER. THE NATIONAL CAMPAIGN WAS TERRIFIC. HERE WE HAVE --

VAL>> -- YOU'LL HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS ONE.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> -- TORRICELLI WHEN HE DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE. I HAVE FORRESTER RAISING HIS HAND IN VICTORY AND THERE'S LAUTENBERG AS A FRESH NEW BOXER COMING INTO THE RING.

JESS>> NEW JERSEY RULES.

VAL>> NEW JERSEY RULES.

FERNANDO GUERRA>> ACTUALLY, MY FAVORITE ONE OF HIS LATELY IS THE ONE WITH MONDALE AND THE DEMOCRATS EXCAVATING THE DINOSAUR.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> I JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE --

FERNANDO GUERRA>> -- OH, THERE IT IS.

VAL>> THIRTY MORE SECONDS.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> HERE I HAVE FOSSILS. THEY'RE DIGGING OUT MONDALE AND THEY'RE SAYING, "KEEP DIGGING. HE'S OUR BEST HOPE FOR THE FUTURE." (LAUGHTER)

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) OUR THANKS TO MICHAEL RAMIREZ. IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

JESS>> AND THE SAME FOR PATT MORRISON AND TO FERNANDO GUERRA. MANY THANKS FOR BEING WITH US HERE TONIGHT.

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