11/15/02

LC021115

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> YOU GET ALL THE BENEFITS OF OWNING A CAR WITHOUT THE MONTHLY PAYMENTS. IT’S CALLED CAR-SHARING AND IT COULD HELP SPEED UP YOUR DAILY COMMUTE.

>> THERE’S NO INSURANCE PAYMENT EVERY MONTH ON A CAR THAT YOU HARDLY USE. THERE’S NO GAS PAYMENT ON A CAR THAT YOU NEVER DRIVE. THERE’S NO DEPRECIATION ON THE VALUE OF YOUR CAR THAT YOU’VE BOUGHT. YOU PAY FOR A CAR WHEN YOU USE IT AND ONLY WHEN YOU USE IT.

VAL>> HE’S INTERVIEWED JUST ABOUT EVERYONE FROM THE POPE TO FIDEL CASTRO, BUT TONIGHT TAVIS SMILEY IS THE ONE WHO’LL BE ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS. HE’S BREAKING NEW GROUND ON NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO AND HE’S HERE TONIGHT TO TELL US HOW HE’S KEPT THE FAITH.

JESS>> AND THEN WE’LL PREVIEW A COMPELLING MOTION THAT SHINES NEW LIGHT ON ONE OF THE WORLD’S DARKEST MOMENTS, THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> THE FILM EXPLORES ONE OF THE UNRESOLVED CHAPTERS IN THE TWENTIETH CENTURY’S HISTORY AND TONIGHT WE’LL TALK WITH THE DIRECTOR ABOUT HIS EFFORTS TO TELL THE STORY OF THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. TONIGHT A NEW IDEA THAT JUST MIGHT MAKE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA LESS OF A COMMUTER’S NIGHTMARE. IT INVOLVES SOMETHING CALLED CAR-SHARING AND, IF IT CATCHES ON, IT COULD CHANGE THE WAY MANY OF US GET AROUND.

VAL>> SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU’D LIKE TO BEAT THE RUSH HOUR JAM BY HOPPING ONTO A TRAIN OR A SUBWAY, BUT YOU STILL NEED A CAR TO GET TO YOUR FINAL DESTINATION. THAT’S WHERE CAR-SHARING COMES IN AND, AS GAY YEE DISCOVERED, THAT’S ONLY ONE OF THE WAYS THIS NEW CONCEPT COULD BE PUT TO USE.

GAY YEE>> CHAD CROSS AND JUSTIN ADLER WOULD HAVE NEVER SURVIVED IN BUSINESS WITHOUT BEING FRUGAL AND CREATIVE. THEY OWN A MULTIMEDIA FIRM CALLED JUXTAFLOW IN LONG BEACH. THE STAFF IS JUST ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE HERE AND THE COMPANY OPERATES OUT OF CHAD’S GUEST BEDROOM. IN CASE YOU HAVEN’T ALREADY FIGURED IT OUT, THIS IS --

JUSTIN ADLER>> -- IT’S A VERY SMALL BUSINESS (LAUGHTER).

CHAD CROSS>> I THINK, IN OUR SITUATION, WE ARE A SMALL BUSINESS, SO WE’RE ALWAYS TRYING TO NOT ONLY, YOU KNOW, CUT ANY CORNERS WE CAN ON OUR OVERHEAD.

GAY YEE>> TO SAVE MONEY AND HELP THE ENVIRONMENT, CHAD AND JUSTIN RIDE BICYCLES WHENEVER THEY CAN AND, WHEN THEY NEED A COMPANY CAR, CHAD PICKS UP THE PHONE AND RESERVES A VEHICLE WITH AN AUTOMOBILE TIMESHARE CALLED FLEXCAR. TO PICK UP THEIR CAR, THEY TWO-WHEEL IT TO THE BIKE STATION NEARBY, SECURE THEIR BIKES AND WALK TO THEIR RESERVED VEHICLE PARKED JUST A FEW STEPS AWAY. AS TIMESHARE MEMBERS, THERE’S NO PAPERWORK AS THERE IS WITH REGULAR RENTAL CARS. JUST A SWIPE OF THEIR FLEXCARD UNLOCKS THE DOORS. THE KEY AND A KEYPAD ARE IN THE GLOVE BOX. A PIN NUMBER UNLOCKS THE IGNITION AND WE’RE ON OUR WAY.

GAY YEE>> SO WHERE ARE WE GOING?

CHAD CROSS>> WE’RE GOING TO A MEETING WITH POTENTIALLY A CLIENT. OUR OFFICE IS ONLY ABOUT TWO BLOCKS AWAY, SO WE CAN RIDE OUR BIKES IN IN THE MORNING AND THEN, WHENEVER WE NEED A CAR DURING THE DAY, WE CAN USE THESE. WE DON’T HAVE TO USE OUR CARS, WHICH SAVES MONEY AND LESS WEAR ON THEM. THIS IS THE PLACE WE’RE GOING.

GAY YEE>> OH, IT’S NICE.

GAY YEE>> THEIR BUSINESS MEETING PROBABLY WON’T TAKE MORE THAN AN HOUR OR TWO. THE COST OF RENTING THE CAR? EIGHT DOLLARS AN HOUR AND THAT INCLUDES GAS AND INSURANCE. JUSTIN SAYS THE IDEA IS A PERFECT FIT FOR THEIR SMALL COMPANY.

JUSTIN ADLER>> WE’RE A TECHNOLOGY COMPANY, SO JUST TO BE INVOLVED WITH ANY CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY, I THINK IS JUST AN ADVANTAGE FOR OUR MENTALITY AND EVERYTHING TO KIND OF PUSH THINGS FORWARD.

GAY YEE>> THE CAR-SHARING CONCEPT WAS FIRST POPULARIZED IN EUROPE DECADES AGO. NOW IT’S CATCHING ON IN BIG AMERICAN CITIES WHERE PARKING IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT, PLACES SUCH AS SAN FRANCISCO AND NEW YORK. LOS ANGELES SEEMS TO BE THE NEXT BIG FRONTIER AND, EVEN HERE IN AMERICA’S CAR CAPITAL, THE IDEA OF SHARING SEEMS TO BE CATCHING ON. SOME SAY THIS CONCEPT IS THE MISSING LINK IN THE WHOLE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM. ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PEOPLE DON’T USE MASS TRANSIT MORE IS BECAUSE THEY’RE AFRAID OF BEING STRANDED WITHOUT A CAR ONCE THEY REACH THEIR BUS STOP OR THEIR TRAIN STOP. NOW THERE IS A CAR. FLEXCAR HAS VEHICLES PARKED OUTSIDE COMMUTER HOTSPOTS, SUCH AS UNION STATION IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES AND METROLINK STATIONS IN SURROUNDING AREAS.

MIKE WOO>> CAR-SHARING, IN GENERAL, MEANS YOU DON’T HAVE TO ACTUALLY OWN A CAR. YOU CAN STILL USE A CAR. YOU CAN HAVE THE CONVENIENCE AND THE FREEDOM OF DRIVING A CAR, BUT YOU DON’T HAVE TO HAVE THE HASSLES OF OWNING A CAR.

GAY YEE>> FORMER CITY COUNCILMAN, MIKE WOO, IS THE GENERAL MANAGER OF FLEXCAR IN LOS ANGELES. WOO SAYS STUDIES SHOW MOST ANGELENOS AVERAGE $400 TO $600 A MONTH TO KEEP THEIR CARS UP AND RUNNING. A CAR-SHARER SPENDS $75 TO $100 A MONTH.

MIKE WOO>> YOU CAN GET ACCESS TO A CAR, BE CHARGED ONLY ABOUT NINE DOLLARS AN HOUR AND ONLY PAY FOR THE ACTUAL USE OF THE VEHICLE AND SO, BECAUSE WE INCLUDE INSURANCE, FUEL, MAINTENANCE, MANY OF THE COSTS INVOLVED WITH OWNING A CAR ARE ABSORBED BY US.

GAY YEE>> AND THAT SUITS SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, CHAD CROSS, JUST FINE.

GAY YEE>> SO THIS WILL BECOME YOUR OFFICIAL COMPANY CAR?

CHAD CROSS>> KIND OF, YEAH. I GUESS THAT’S WHAT IT IS.

GAY YEE>> WHICH IS NOT NECESSARILY YOUR CAR (LAUGHTER).

CHAD CROSS>> RIGHT, WHICH IS GREAT (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> GAY YEE JOINS US NOW. WHAT DO YOU DO TO SIGN UP FOR THIS?

GAY YEE>> YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO BECOME A MEMBER AND IT’S A $25 FEE TO BECOME A MEMBER. THEN YOU MAKE YOUR APPOINTMENT AND YOU USE IT ACCORDING TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU NEED IT FOR, SO IT AVERAGES ABOUT NINE DOLLARS AN HOUR.

JESS>> THE $25 DOLLARS GETS YOU INTO IT?

GAY YEE>> GETS YOU IN AS A MEMBER.

JESS>> INSURANCE?

GAY YEE>> IT COVERS YOUR INSURANCE AND GASOLINE AND --

VAL>> -- BUT WAIT, THE NINE DOLLARS AN HOUR COVERS GAS, INSURANCE, EVERYTHING? THAT’S IT?

GAY YEE>> MAINTENANCE OF THE VEHICLE, EVERYTHING. THAT’S ALL TAKEN CARE OF FOR YOU, WHICH IS WHY --

VAL>> -- YOU COULD PAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN INSURANCE IN THIS TOWN.

GAY YEE>> EXACTLY. THE BREAKDOWN -- AAA DID A STUDY AND IT AVERAGES BETWEEN $400 AND $600 A MONTH FOR US TO MAINTAIN A CAR HERE IN L.A. THAT’S A LOT OF MONEY. IN THIS CASE, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO USE THIS SORT OF SHARING SCENARIO, IT’S ABOUT $75, MAYBE $100. A LOT CHEAPER.

JESS>> MOST OF THOSE WERE SMALL CARS. DO THEY OFFER OTHERS?

GAY YEE>> THEY OFFER MIATAS, WHICH ARE LITTLE SPORTS CARS, PICKUP TRUCKS, ELECTRIC CARS, EVS, HYBRIDS --

VAL>> -- NO SUVS?

GAY YEE>> NO SUVS AT THIS POINT --

VAL>> -- GOOD (LAUGHTER).

GAY YEE>> -- BUT, I MEAN, THERE STILL ARE PICKUPS, THOUGH. NONE THAT I KNOW OF.

JESS>> AND IS IT GROWING?

GAY YEE>> IT APPEARS TO BE GROWING. IT’S TAKEN OFF IN PLACES LIKE SAN FRANCISCO, NEW YORK. AS YOU KNOW, THERE’S ABSOLUTELY NEVER ANY PARKING THERE, SO THAT’S WHY IT WOULD BE SUCH A WONDERFUL ADVANTAGE IN CITIES LIKE THAT.

JESS>> BUT IT’S JUST AS HARD TO FIND A PLACE TO PARK A CAR YOU’VE RENTED AS IT IS ONE YOU OWN.

GAY YEE>> IT GETS TO BE THAT SITUATION WHERE YES AND NO. BUT THE SITUATION THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT IS, IF YOU COMMUTE IN VIA MASS TRANSIT, YOU TAKE YOUR LITTLE CAR TO TOOL AROUND FOR LUNCH AND COME BACK AND YOU’RE DONE.

VAL>> SO CAN YOU ALWAYS BE SURE THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A CAR THERE FOR YOU? I MEAN, IF I JOIN, AM I GUARANTEED THAT THERE’S A CAR THERE WHEN I NEED IT?

GAY YEE>> YOU CALL IN AND YOU MAKE A RESERVATION.

VAL>> BUT THEY COULD RUN OUT OF CARS.

GAY YEE>> THEY CAN SHUTTLE THEM AROUND. THEY CAN MOVE THEM AROUND. IN FACT, WE WERE IN THE L.A. AREA WHICH -- I MEAN, THE LONG BEACH AREA -- WHERE THEY HAVE A PILOT PROJECT THAT’S BEEN AROUND SINCE APRIL AND THEY WERE ABLE TO MOVE DOWN A LARGER VEHICLE SO ALL OF US COULD BE IN THE CAR TO MOVE AROUND IN.

JESS>> AND IF THERE ISN’T ONE AVAILABLE, CALL MIKE WOO (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THAT’S RIGHT, THAT’S RIGHT. THERE YOU GO. BUT YOU CAN’T MESS THE CAR UP TOO BAD. YOU’RE SHARING, YOU’VE GOT TO BE NEAT (LAUGHTER).

GAY YEE>> YOU CAN’T PUT YOUR SODA POP CANS IN THERE, NO, VAL, SORRY (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, GAY. IT LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF FUN.

MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, THEY WORKED ALONGSIDE RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL AND THEY NEVER REALIZED THE DANGER THAT THEY MIGHT BE IN. NOW SOME NEIGHBORS AND EX-EMPLOYEES OF THE OLD ROCKETDYNE PLANT CLAIM THEY’VE BEEN LEFT WITH A DEADLY SOUVENIR: CANCER.

>> AND I WAS ASKED ONE TIME BY AN EMPLOYEE OF ROCKETDYNE, WELL, DIDN’T YOU KNOW THAT THESE BIG YELLOW SIGNS WHICH HAD THIS SYMBOL ON IT, DIDN’T YOU KNOW THAT MEANT “RESTRICTED AREA: RADIATION”? I DIDN’T HAVE A CLUE. NO ONE TOLD ME.

JESS>> WHEN TAVIS SMILEY WAS A YOUNG MAN -- STILL IS -- BUT WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER, HE DREAMED OF MOVING TO LOS ANGELES AND WORKING FOR MAYOR TOM BRADLEY. HE FINALLY GOT THE JOB, BUT IT WAS NO SLAM DUNK. TAVIS SAID IT TOOK SOME FAITH AND PERSEVERANCE FOR THAT DREAM TO FINALLY COME TRUE. THESE DAYS, YOU CAN HEAR HIM ON NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO. HE HAS INTERVIEWED PRESIDENTS, THE POPE AND FIDEL CASTRO, BUT TAVIS SMILEY SAYS HE HAS NEVER STOPPED BELIEVING IN THE POWER OF FAITH.

VAL>> AND NOW HE’S WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT IT. IT IS CALLED “KEEPING THE FAITH: STORIES OF LOVE, COURAGE, HEALING AND HOPE FROM BLACK AMERICA”. AND WE’RE VERY PLEASED TO HAVE TAVIS SMILEY AS OUR GUEST TONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

TAVIS SMILEY>> VAL AND JESS, NICE TO SEE YOU BOTH. HOW ARE YOU?

JESS>> JUST FINE, THANK YOU. YOU TALK ABOUT KEEPING THE FAITH. WE’RE NOT TALKING NECESSARILY ABOUT RELIGIOUS FAITH?

TAVIS SMILEY>> NOT PARTICULARLY, ALTHOUGH THAT IS A PART OF IT. THERE’S A SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE, SINCE YOU ASKED, JESS, THAT I’M FOND OF. IT SAYS VERY SIMPLY THAT “FAITH IS THE SUBSTANCE OF THINGS HOPED FOR, THE EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN.” I THINK THAT’S A PRETTY GOOD DESCRIPTION. THOSE WHO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT KEEPING THE FAITH, YOU DO THAT DESPITE THE FACT THAT THERE ISN’T ALWAYS THE EVIDENCE TO CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU CAN ENDURE THIS. BUT I DON’T BELIEVE THERE IS ANYTHING THAT WE GO THROUGH IN LIFE THAT WE CANNOT ENDURE. I DON’T BELIEVE THERE IS ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO US FROM WHICH WE CANNOT RECOVER, AND THESE --

VAL>> -- NOTHING?

TAVIS SMILEY>> NOTHING. NOTHING IN LIFE THAT HAPPENS TO YOU THAT YOU CANNOT RECOVER FROM. NOTHING IN LIFE THAT YOU GO THROUGH THAT YOU CANNOT GET THROUGH SO LONG AS YOU KEEP THE FAITH.

JESS>> AND YOU HAVE TESTIMONY AS TO THAT IN THIS BOOK. HOW MANY PEOPLE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS?

TAVIS SMILEY>> ABOUT A HUNDRED STORIES, AND I SHOULD MAKE A DISTINCTION THAT WE RECEIVED THOUSANDS OF STORIES FROM PEOPLE. WHEN I PUT THE WORD OUT ON MY RADIO SHOW AND ON THE INTERNET ON MY WEBSITE AND IN MY NEWSLETTER, YOU COULD IMAGINE THE MYRIAD NUMBER OF FOLKS AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO WANTED TO SHARE A STORY OF LOVE AND COURAGE AND HEALING AND HOPE AND POSSIBILITY AND FAITH AND MENTORINGS. WE RECEIVED STORIES FROM ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WE COULD ONLY PUT ABOUT A HUNDRED IN THIS BOOK. YOU KNOW, I’VE HAD AN IDEA THOUGH, JESS. YOU KNOW, THOSE GUYS WHO DO THE “CHICKEN SOUP” SERIES HAVE GOT LIKE NINETEEN BOOKS OUT OF THAT, SO MAYBE I CAN SQUEEZE ANOTHER EIGHTEEN OUT OF “KEEPING THE FAITH” IF I KEEP PUTTING STORIES OUT ONCE A YEAR (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> YOU SAVED ALL THOSE LETTERS?

TAVIS SMILEY>> YEAH, I SAVED EVERY ONE OF THEM, ABSOLUTELY.

VAL>> NOW YOU, OF COURSE, HAVE PUT IN YOUR OWN STORIES TOO. GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF ONE THAT YOU CONTRIBUTED.

TAVIS SMILEY>> WELL, I THOUGHT, VAL, THAT IT WOULD DISINGENUOUS OF ME TO ASK FOLKS TO SHARE THEIR OWN STORIES OF HEALING AND OF HOPE AND OF LOVE AND ENCOURAGEMENT AND NOT SHARE MY OWN. I THOUGHT THAT, IF THE BOOK WAS GOING TO BE AUTHENTIC, I HAD TO DO LIKEWISE. SO SOME OF THE STORIES I’VE WRITTEN IN HERE ARE RATHER HUMOROUS. THE STORY ABOUT MY GRANDMOTHER WE CALL BIG MOMMA --

JESS>> -- THE SASSING OF THE WHITE MAN?

TAVIS SMILEY>> SASSING THE WHITE MAN. I’M ON TELEVISION ONE NIGHT DEBATING A RIGHT WING CONSERVATIVE ON CNN. MY GRANDMOTHER WHO WAS NINETY YEARS OLD AT THE TIME AND, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, WAS BORN AND RAISED IN MISSISSIPPI AND, FOR SASSING A WHITE MAN, YOU COULD BE LYNCHED BACK IN MISSISSIPPI IN THOSE DAYS. SO HERE I AM ON TV DEBATING PAT BUCHANAN, GOING BACK AND FORTH, AND MY GRANDMOTHER IS IN TEARS. SHE’S CRYING AND SHE’S SCREAMING AND MY MOTHER COMES RUNNING INTO THE ROOM AND SAYS, “MOTHER, WHAT’S WRONG? WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU?” SHE SAYS, “TAVIS IS ON TV SASSING THIS WHITE MAN. THEY’RE GOING TO LYNCH THIS BOY, THEY’RE GOING TO TAKE HIM OUT AND BEAT HIM DOWN, THEY’RE GOING TO HANG HIM, THEY’RE GOING TO STRING HIM UP.” SHE WAS SERIOUS, TRYING TO GET OUT OF HER WHEELCHAIR. I DON’T HOW SHE WAS GOING TO GET FROM INDIANA TO WASHINGTON, D.C. TO GET ME OUT OF THE STUDIO IN TIME BEFORE I GOT LYNCHED. BUT SHE COULD NOT BELIEVE, IN HER OWN LIFETIME, THAT I WOULD BE ON TV NO LESS SASSING A WHITE MAN.

JESS>> SHE PROBABLY DIDN’T APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THAT WAS A WHITE MAN THAT NEEDED SASSING (LAUGHTER).

TAVIS SMILEY>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, THE FUNNY THING ABOUT IT WAS, WHEN I FINALLY TOLD HER, JESS, MY MOTHER HAD TO CALL ME ON THE PHONE TO GET ME TO TALK TO HER TO CALM HER DOWN BECAUSE SHE WAS REALLY VERY UPSET. I MEAN, EMOTIONALLY DISTRAUGHT, CRYING AND SCREAMING. SHE WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT THIS BECAUSE SHE LEGITIMATELY THINKS THAT I AM GOING TO BE LYNCHED FOR SASSING, FOR TALKING BACK TO THIS WHITE MAN. SO I GET HER ON THE PHONE AND I SAID, “BIG MOMMA, IT’S OKAY, NOBODY’S GOING TO LYNCH ME.” I SAID, “THE PRODUCERS ASKED ME TO DO THIS. THEY WANTED ME TO COME AND HAVE A SPIRITUAL DEBATE WITH PAT BUCHANAN. THEY’RE NOT GOING TO LYNCH ME FOR THIS.”

WHEN I FINALLY GOT HER CALMED DOWN, THEN I HIT HER WITH THE PUNCH LINE. I SAID, “NOT ONLY DID THEY ASK ME TO DO THIS, THESE WHITE FOLK PAID ME TO DO THIS” AND SHE STARTED LAUGHING. SHE WENT TO HER GRAVE A YEAR OR SO, GOD REST HER SOUL, LAUGHING ABOUT THAT STORY. THE STORY IS IN HERE BECAUSE MY GRANDMOTHER COULD NEVER HAVE IMAGINED IN HER OWN LIFETIME THAT HER GRANDSON WOULD BE DOING THIS, BUT IT’S BECAUSE THAT SHE AND OTHERS KEPT THE FAITH THAT I NOW HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT HERE AND EVEN TALK TO YOU TODAY WHEN THIS WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE FIFTY YEARS AGO.

VAL>> YOU KNOW, IN YOUR INTRODUCTION, YOU TALK ABOUT A UNIQUE KIND OF LOVE, YOU BELIEVE, IN OUR CULTURE CALLED BLACK LOVE. EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT --

TAVIS SMILEY>> -- I TRY TO MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN LOVE AND BLACK LOVE ONLY BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT BLACK FOLK HAVE LEARNED TO LOVE IN A UNIQUELY DIFFERENT WAY. IF ANYBODY CAN TALK TO AMERICA THESE DAYS WHEN ALL THIS ANGST ABOUNDS AND THERE IS CONCERN AND PEOPLE JUST SEEM FEARFUL. THERE’S A GREAT DEAL OF TREPIDATION IN THE AIR ABOUT OUR FUTURE. OSAMA BIN LADEN WE NOW THINK IS STILL ALIVE AND WE’RE DEALING WITH TERRORISM AND SERIAL SNIPERS AND KIDS BEING ABDUCTED ON THE AMBER ALERT EVERY DAY. THERE’S A LOT OF FEAR IN OUR COUNTRY.

I THINK IF ANYBODY CAN SPEAK TO AMERICA ABOUT HOW TO LIVE WITH FEAR, HOW TO TURN THAT FEAR INTO FAITH, THAT PAIN INTO POWER, CERTAINLY AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE A UNIQUE EXPERIENCE. PART OF WHAT’S GOTTEN US THROUGH ALL THESE YEARS IS THAT WE HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF LOVE. I DEFINE BLACK LOVE, VERY SIMPLY, AS THIS. IT IS THE CAPACITY, THE ABILITY, TO LEARN TO LOVE FOLK IN SPITE OF AND NOT BECAUSE OF SO THAT BLACK FOLK HAVE LEARNED TO LOVE THIS GREAT PLACE CALLED AMERICA IN SPITE OF HOW SHE’S TREATED US AT TIMES AND NOT BECAUSE OF. WE’VE LEARNED TO LOVE OUR WHITE BROTHERS AND SISTERS DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS IN SPITE OF AND NOT BECAUSE OF. THAT IS A COURAGEOUS KIND OF LOVE.

VAL>> BUT YOU EVEN MENTION THIS KIND OF BLACK LOVE BEING APPLIED TOWARD O.J.?

TAVIS SMILEY>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT BLACK FOLK ARE THE MOST FORGIVING FOLK IN THE WORLD. SOMETIMES THAT WORKS TO OUR BENEFIT, SOMETIMES IT WORKS TO OUR DETRIMENT. WHAT I ARGUE IN THE BOOK IS, IN THE CHAPTER ON BLACK LOVE, THAT THERE ARE SOME BLACK FOLK WHO HAVE BENEFITED FROM BLACK LOVE BECAUSE WE ARE SO FORGIVING. THEY’VE BENEFITED FROM BLACK LOVE WHEN THEY DIDN’T EVEN DESERVE IT AND I THINK O.J. SIMPSON IS ON THAT LIST.

I THINK THAT CLARENCE THOMAS IS ON THAT LIST. HE PUSHES AN AGENDA THAT IS ANTITHETICAL TO THE BEST INTEREST OF BLACK PEOPLE AND YET, WHEN HE WAS NOMINATED, BLACK FOLK EN MASSE DID NOT COME OUT AGAINST CLARENCE THOMAS BECAUSE AT LEAST HE WAS A BLACK GUY BEING NOMINATED FOR THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND, SO NOBODY WANTED TO COME OUT AND BASH CLARENCE THOMAS. INDEED, THE NAACP STAYED OUT OF IT, SO THERE ARE SOMETIMES FOLK WHO BENEFIT.

MARIAN BERRY? HOW DO YOU GET RE-ELECTED SMOKING CRACK, TRYING TO SLEEP WITH SOMEBODY WHO’S NOT YOUR WIFE? BLACK FOLK RE-ELECT YOU ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT CAME AFTER HIM AND BECAUSE BLACK FOLK BELIEVE IN FORGIVENESS AND THEY BELIEVE IN REDEMPTION AND THAT’S THE MOST COURAGEOUS KIND OF LOVE WHEN YOU CAN LEARN TO LOVE FOLK AND FORGIVE FOLK AND GIVE THEM A CHANCE AT REDEMPTION IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES AND NOT BECAUSE OF THEMSELVES.

JESS>> IN READING THE STORIES OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE KEPT THE FAITH AND HAVE WRITTEN YOU ABOUT IT, I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT THE MAJORITY OF THEM CREDITED EDUCATION.

TAVIS SMILEY>> OH, MALCOLM X SAID THIS, JESS. EDUCATION IS OUR PASSPORT TO THE FUTURE FOR TOMORROW BELONGS TO THOSE WHO PREPARE FOR IT TODAY. ANYBODY IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY WHO’S ACHIEVED ANYTHING UNDERSTANDS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE ABOUT THE PURSUIT OF EDUCATIONAL EXCELLENCE, SO THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THERE. THERE’S A STORY IN THERE OF A GIRL WHO WAS PREGNANT AT THE AGE OF THIRTEEN WHO WENT ON TO BECOME A PHD. HER STORY IS MOVING.

THERE’S A GREAT STORY IN HERE ABOUT A GUY WHO WAS FINISHING UP HIS LAW DEGREE AT USC WHO WAS SHOT AND LEFT FOR DEAD ON THE STREETS OF THE CAMPUS OVER THERE. WHILE HE WAS TRYING TO HELP SOMEBODY FIX THEIR CAR, THEY TRIED TO ROB HIM. THEY ASKED HIM FOR HELP FIXING THE CAR, HE STOPPED, THEY SHOOT HIM IN A ROBBERY AND LEAVE HIM FOR DEAD. HIS LEG IS AMPUTATED, BUT HE SURVIVES AND, TO THIS DAY, HE HAS A THRIVING LAW PRACTICE HERE IN LOS ANGELES. SO WHETHER PERSONALLY OR PROFESSIONALLY, THESE STORIES OF HOW TO OVERCOME, OF HOW TO KEEP THE FAITH, I THINK ARE ENLIGHTENING, ENCOURAGING AND EMPOWERING AND I FEEL GOOD THAT I GOT A CHANCE TO COMPILE AND EDIT THE BOOK.

VAL>> WHAT KIND OF IMPACT DO YOU WANT THE BOOK TO MAKE ON YOUNG PEOPLE, ON WHITE PEOPLE? DID YOU HAVE -- WAS IT AIMED AT --

TAVIS SMILEY>> -- THAT’S A VERY GOOD QUESTION, VAL. BECAUSE I’VE BEEN SO EMPOWERED OVER THE YEARS BY THIS “CHICKEN SOUP” SERIES, EVEN THOUGH THE STORIES ARE NOT NECESSARILY FROM AFRICAN-AMERICANS OR PEOPLE OF COLOR, I THINK THAT ALL AMERICANS CAN BE EMPOWERED BY THIS BOOK, “KEEPING THE FAITH”. I JUST THINK THAT IN THIS POST-9/11 WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN, PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE A BOOK THEY CAN PICK UP AND LOOK AT THE STRUGGLES THAT OTHER FOLK HAVE GONE THROUGH AND KNOW THAT, IF THEY GOT THROUGH IT, I CAN GET THROUGH IT TOO.

VAL>> TAVIS SMILEY, ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW. AGAIN, THE BOOK IS CALLED “KEEPING THE FAITH: STORIES OF LOVE, COURAGE, HEALING AND HOPE FROM BLACK AMERICA”.

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
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JESS>> THE TWENTIETH CENTURY WILL GO DOWN AS ONE OF THE BLOODIEST TIMES IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD AND THERE ARE STILL SOME UNRESOLVED CHAPTERS IN THAT HISTORY. TONIGHT A LOOK AT ONE OF THEM: THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

VAL>> A NEW MOTION PICTURE OFFERS A COMPELLING ACCOUNT OF THE GENOCIDE AND ITS LINGERING IMPACT ON THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE. TONIGHT WE’LL TALK TO THE FILMMAKER, ATOM EGOYAN, BUT FIRST HERE’S A BRIEF LOOK AT THE MOVIE, “ARARAT”.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> ATOM EGOYAN, THE MAKER OF THE FILM IS WITH US NOW. THERE WAS NO SMALL CHALLENGE TO DO THAT FILM WITHIN A FILM?

ATOM EGOYAN>> YEAH. IT WAS -- THE ONLY WAY I COULD MAKE THE FILM REALLY PERSONAL BECAUSE IT’S NOT REALLY JUST A FILM ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED OVER EIGHTY-FIVE YEARS AGO, BUT IT’S ABOUT WHAT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN. THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE HAS BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY DENIED BY THE PERPETRATOR, THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT, AND I FELT THAT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO SHOW HOW THAT DENIAL CONTINUES TO EFFECT A YOUNG MAN LIKE THE PERSON YOU SAW, RAFFI, IN THE FILM.

JESS>> IN CONTEMPORARY TIMES?

ATOM EGOYAN>> YES.

VAL>> SO WHEN YOU SAY IT’S PERSONAL, IT REALLY IS BECAUSE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RAFFI, IS A FILMMAKER LIKE YOURSELF.

ATOM EGOYAN>> WELL, THE MAIN CHARACTER -- WELL, THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FILMMAKERS. RAFFI IS SOMEONE WHO IS MAKING A DIGITAL DIARY OF HIS EXPERIENCES COMING BACK FROM TURKEY. THERE IS ALSO THE CHARACTER OF EDWARD PLAYED BY CHARLES AZNAVOUR WHO’S LIKE A MORE ESTABLISHED FILMMAKER MAKING THIS EPIC FILM ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. IT’S ABOUT HOW WE INTERACT WITH HISTORY. I MEAN, I THINK THAT THAT’S WHAT MADE THE FILM REALLY EXCITING TO ME. IT’S ABOUT HOW SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED SO LONG AGO CONTINUES TO HAVE THIS DIRECT EFFECT ON PEOPLES’ LIVES TODAY AND HOW WE NEGOTIATE OUR WAY AROUND HISTORY.

JESS>> YOU OFFERED YOURSELF A REAL CHALLENGE WHEN YOU DECIDED THE SCREENPLAY HAD TO TELL A STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED, WHY IT HAPPENED, WHY IT’S DENIED, AND WHY IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CONTINUE TO DENY IT (LAUGHTER). NO WONDER THIS IS A COMPLICATED FILM.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) DID YOU REALLY ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS?

ATOM EGOYAN>> WELL, IT’S COMPLICATED BECAUSE THE SITUATION IS VERY COMPLEX. I MEAN, I THINK WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO -- OKAY, IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE HOLOCAUST HADN’T BEEN ADMITTED TO BY THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT. LIKE WHAT IF THE JEWISH POPULATION STILL WAS LOOKING FOR RECOGNITION FROM THE PERPETRATORS? IF MEAN, ARMENIANS HAVE BEEN LIVING WITH THAT FOR OVER EIGHTY-FIVE YEARS.

WHAT’S REALLY CHILLING IS THAT THE GERMANS WERE VERY AWARE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT TIME IN 1915 BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY ALLY TO THE TURKS. THEY WERE HORRIFIED AT WHAT THEIR ALLIES WERE DOING, BUT THIRTY YEARS LATER, THERE WAS A LESSON TO BE DRAWN THAT YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, WHICH LED TO, YOU KNOW, HITLER’S CHILLING LINE WHEN HE’S GIVING ORDERS TO HIS DEATH COMMANDOS, “WHO REMEMBERS THE EXTERMINATION OF THE ARMENIANS?”

VAL>> WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER CLIP FROM THE MOVIE. THIS IS A SCENE IN WHICH THE MAIN CHARACTER, RAFFI, IS TALKING TO ANOTHER CHARACTER WHO IS AN ACTOR.

ATOM EGOYAN>> AN ACTOR, A TURKISH ACTOR WHO PLAYED A TURKISH MONSTER IN THE FILM WITHIN THE FILM. THIS IS AFTER THE SHOOTING DAY AND HE’S DRIVEN HIM HOME AND THEY’RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN THE HALLWAY.

VAL>> VERY GOOD. LET’S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> ONE OF THE PREMISES IN YOUR FILM IS THAT IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN AND, INDEED, THERE HAVE BEEN KILLINGS BY ARMENIANS, ARMENIANS YOU DESCRIBE AS TERRORISTS, AGAINST TURKISH DIPLOMATS, ONE OF WHICH OCCURRED HERE IN LOS ANGELES.

ATOM EGOYAN>> WELL, I THINK THAT -- LOOK, ANY ACTIVE TERROR IS THE RESULT OF DEHUMANIZING SOMEONE ELSE. YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT’S AN ARMENIAN OR A TURK, WE’RE ALL CAPABLE OF THIS IF THE RIGHT TRIGGER IS PULLED AND THAT’S WHAT’S HORRIFYING. YOU KNOW, GENOCIDE IS NOT UNIQUE TO THE ARMENIANS. OBVIOUSLY, THE HOLOCAUST, CAMBODIA, RWANDA, THE BALKANS. I MEAN, IN ALL THESE SITUATIONS, ATROCITIES HAVE OCCURRED. IT’S NOT ENOUGH JUST TO REMEMBER THEM, BUT TO REMEMBER THEM IN SUCH A WAY THAT WE CAN PREVENT THEM FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.

JESS>> AND FELLOW ARMENIANS DO NOT OBJECT TO YOUR REFERRING TO THOSE TODAY AS TERRORISTS?

ATOM EGOYAN>> THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS PART OF OUR HISTORY. THIS FILM IS ENCYCLOPEDIC. THIS WAS -- AND IT’S ALSO RAISED, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY TERRORISTS OR ARE THEY FREEDOM FIGHTERS? YOU KNOW, THAT’S ALSO RAISED IN THE FILM. IT’S A QUESTION OF HOW IT IS WE WANT TO SEE THEM, BUT ALSO TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, TERROR IS THE RESULT OF DEHUMANIZING SOMEONE ELSE. THE KID SAYS, YOU KNOW, HE WANTS TO UNDERSTAND WHY HIS FATHER, WHO TOOK THAT ACTION, WHAT MUST HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH HIS MIND WHEN HE COULD ACTUALLY KILL SOMEBODY. IT’S DISTURBING, BUT MY ROLE IS TO TRY AND CREATE A DISCOURSE AROUND THESE THINGS.

VAL>> A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. IN THE PAST, MOVIES ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE HAVE BEEN SQUASHED THROUGH POLITICAL TRIGGERS.

ATOM EGOYAN>> YES.

VAL>> DID YOU HAVE ANY KIND OF ENCOUNTER OR PRESSURE NOT TO MAKE THIS FILM? AND SECONDLY, WHAT HAS BEEN THE RESPONSE FROM THE TURKISH COMMUNITY?

ATOM EGOYAN>> WELL, THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE TO NOT HAVE THE FILM DISTRIBUTED. THEY COULDN’T REALLY TRY AND HAVE THE FILM STOPPED FROM BEING MADE BECAUSE IT WAS MADE INDEPENDENTLY, BUT I MEAN, THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE PUT ON THE DISTRIBUTORS TO NOT SHOW IT. I THINK THAT WHAT’S HAPPENED, THOUGH, IS LIKE THEY’VE UNDERSTOOD THAT THE MORE PRESSURE THEY PUT ON SOMETHING NOT BEING SHOWN, THE MORE PUBLICITY IT GETS. WE KNOW, OBVIOUSLY AT THIS POINT, IT’S TOO LATE.

I THINK THAT WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, FROM THE OFFICIAL TURKISH GOVERNMENT POSITION, THE FILM HAS BEEN COMPLETELY DISMISSED, BUT THERE ARE PROGRESSIVE PEOPLE OF TURKISH EXTRACTION WHO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS FILM IS ACTUALLY AN ATTEMPT TO TRY AND CREATE A DISCOURSE. YOU KNOW, THE TURKISH ACTOR IS ACTUALLY A VERY SYMPATHETIC CHARACTER. HE’S SOMEONE WHO’S TRYING TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE. HE’S SOMEONE WHO HASN’T EVEN HEARD OF THE GENOCIDE. I’M TRYING TO PRESENT THIS IN SUCH A WAY THAT THERE IS ROOM FOR DISCOURSE, THAT THE DOOR IS OPEN.

VAL>> ATOM EGOYAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THIS AMAZING CHAPTER IN HISTORY. THANK YOU.

ATOM EGOYAN>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

JESS>> “ARARAT” OPENS TODAY AT THREE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THEATERS, THE MANN EXCHANGE IN GLENDALE, THE ARC LIGHT IN HOLLYWOOD AND LAEMMLE’S MUSIC HALL IN BEVERLY HILLS.

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JESS>> AND THAT’S TONIGHT’S PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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