12/3/02

LC021203

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> MOST OF THEM WEREN’T AROUND FOR AMERICA’S LAST BIG PEACE MOVEMENT, BUT THEY’RE ON THE STREETS NOW TRYING TO HEAD OFF WAR WITH IRAQ.

LESLIE LEWIS>> I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF IT. THERE’S NEVER BEEN ANY PROVEN LINK BETWEEN IRAQ, SADDAM HUSSEIN AND AL QAEDA, SO WHY ARE WE ATTACKING IRAQ IF THERE’S NO PROVEN LINK? WHAT’S THE POINT OF THIS?

VAL>> THEN WE’LL LOOK BACK AT SECRETS FROM WORLD WAR II. WHY DIDN’T PRESIDENT FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT BOMB AUSCHWITZ WHEN HE HAD THE CHANCE AND WHY DID HE KEEP SILENT FOR SO LONG ABOUT NAZI DEATH CAMPS? TONIGHT PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN, MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, SHEDS NEW LIGHT ON THIS DARK CHAPTER OF OUR RECENT PAST.

JESS>> PATT MORRISON HAS BEEN LOOKING OFF THE CALIFORNIA SHORE AND, SO FAR, SO GOOD, NO OILMEN IN SIGHT.

PATT MORRISON>> THE DRILL VERSUS THE DOCKET. OIL VERSUS DESPOIL -- ON TONIGHT’S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> PLUS, A COLLECTION OF ANCIENT BUDDHIST RELICS. THEY’RE PART OF A MODERN-DAY MISSION. EVENTUALLY, THEY’LL BE ENSHRINED IN A HUGE STATUE OF THE NEXT BUDDHA. BUT FIRST THE RARE ITEMS WILL GO ON A TOUR THAT THE BUDDHISTS SAY WILL BENEFIT BOTH BELIEVERS AND NONBELIEVERS.

JESS>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I’M JESS MARLOW. IT’S BEEN SOME TIME NOW SINCE AMERICA WAS ROCKED BY ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATIONS, BUT IN A SMALL WAY, IT’S HAPPENING ALL OVER AGAIN ON THE STREETS OF LOS ANGELES AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY. THIS TIME, THE PROTESTS ARE ABOUT IRAQ AND WHAT SOME SAY IS AMERICA’S COLLISION COURSE TOWARD WAR.

VAL>> SOME OF THE SAME OLD FACES FROM THE VIETNAM ERA ARE OUT THERE AGAIN, BUT AS GAY YEE TELLS US, THIS CLEARLY ISN’T THE RADICAL PEACE MOVEMENT YOU MAY REMEMBER.

GAY YEE>> IT HAPPENS LIKE CLOCKWORK. EVERY DAY THESE ELDERLY SISTERS, SOME IN THEIR EIGHTIES AND NINETIES, MAKE THEIR WAY TO THE FRONT LOBBY OF THIS ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY FOR NUNS TO MOBILIZE.

SISTER ANNE FIELD>> EVERY DAY AT FOUR O’CLOCK, A GROUP OF OUR SISTERS, MANY OF THEM ELDERS AND VERY WISE WOMEN, GATHER OUT IN FRONT ON THE CORNER OF 23RD AND FIGUEROA AND DO A SIDEWALK PEACE VIGIL.

SISTER VIRGINIA FABILLI>> I’M OUT HERE TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT THERE’S A DANGER OF WAR AND IT ISN’T NECESSARY BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER WAYS OF SOLVING PROBLEMS RATHER THAN WAR.

GAY YEE>> ACROSS TOWN, ANOTHER GROUP STAKES OUT A BUSY CORNER IN SILVER LAKE.

>> HONK YOUR HORN!

GAY YEE>> POLLS SHOW MOST AMERICANS STRONGLY SUPPORT THE IDEA OF TOPPLING IRAQI DICTATOR, SADDAM HUSSEIN. BUT IN LOS ANGELES AND AROUND THE COUNTRY, SCORES OF PEOPLE ARE BUCKING THE NATIONAL MOOD WITH AN OLD-FASHIONED CALL FOR PEACE. IN OCTOBER, TENS OF THOUSANDS TURNED OUT FOR ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATIONS IN WASHINGTON, SAN FRANCISCO AND SEATTLE. AND HERE IN LOS ANGELES, MORE THAN A DOZEN GROUPS HOLD PEACE VIGILS EVERY WEEK.

SISTER ANNE FIELD>> SOME OF THE SISTERS HERE WERE TALKING AND SAYING WHAT CAN WE DO AS ELDER WOMEN IN REGARDS TO HAVING OUR VOICE AND SAYING TO OUR WORLD AND TO OUR COMMUNITY OF LOS ANGELES? HOW CAN WE SAY NO MORE WAR, NO WAR IN IRAQ?

GAY YEE>> THE NUNS ARE PART OF AN ORDER CALLED SISTERS OF SOCIAL SERVICE. THEY SAY BEING HERE IS PART OF THEIR CALLING. RIGHT OUTSIDE THE SISTERS’ FRONT DOOR IS AN EXIT TO THE 110 FREEWAY. DOWN THE BLOCK THERE IS THE STAPLES CENTER. UP THE BLOCK THIS WAY IS USC. THE SISTERS FELT WHAT BETTER PLACE IS THERE TO SEE OR BE SEEN AND PROTEST WAR.

SISTER ANNE FIELD>> THEY SAID LET’S BE VISIBLE AND GET OUT IN FRONT AND EVERY DAY DO A SIDEWALK PEACE VIGIL. SO IT WAS A GROUP OF SISTERS TALKING AND SAYING LET’S DO THIS AND WE DID IT.

GAY YEE>> THEY ECHO THE ANTI-WAR PROTEST OF A DIFFERENT TIME, BUT UNLIKE THE PEACE MOVEMENT OF THE SIXTIES, THESE PEOPLE TEND TO BE OLDER, MORE MAINSTREAM, MORE ESTABLISHMENT. BUT ONE FACE IN THE CROWD IS A VETERAN OF BOTH ERAS. ART GOLDBERG HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN MORE THAN A THOUSAND PROTESTS ON ISSUES RANGING FROM FREE SPEECH TO THE VIETNAM WAR. HE’S BEEN ARRESTED FIFTEEN TIMES. TODAY GOLDBERG IS A CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY, BUT DURING THE SIXTIES, HE WAS A BERKELEY REVOLUTIONARY.

ART GOLDBERG>> THE END OF SEPTEMBER, EARLY OCTOBER OF 1964, WHICH WAS REALLY THE BEGINNING THAT CHANGED THE WHOLE CULTURE IN THE WORLD (LAUGHTER), THERE I WAS. OH, HOW COULD IT HAVE BEEN BETTER THAN THAT?

GAY YEE>> THE POLLS SHOWING STRONG SUPPORT FOR WAR ARE NOT UNLIKE THE POLLS IN THE MID-SIXTIES WHEN MOST AMERICANS SUPPORTED THE WAR IN VIETNAM. GOLDBERG SAYS PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN PEACE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR HEARTS, NOT THE LATEST SURVEY.

ART GOLDBERG>> THIRTY-FIVE PERCENT, TO ME, IS, OH, I’M IN HEAVEN. I WAKE UP EACH DAY AND SAY, “THIRTY-FIVE PERCENT? OH, DAMN, WE’RE DOING GREAT.”

GAY YEE>> HIS OPTIMISM IS FUELED IN PART BY PEOPLE WITH WHOM HE SHARES THE STREETS EACH WEEK, A SMALL BUT VOCAL GROUP THAT GOLDBERG SAYS LOOKS LIKE AMERICA, AND MANY SAY THE U.S. HAS JUST TOO MANY PROBLEMS TO LAUNCH A WAR.

CHRISTOPHER ARELLANO>> WE NEED OUR MONEY HERE AND THAT’S WHY I’M OUT HERE STANDING BECAUSE I FERVENTLY BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO IN LOS ANGELES AND IN THE UNITED STATES.

LESLIE LEWIS>> I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF IT. THERE’S NEVER BEEN ANY PROVEN LINK BETWEEN IRAQ, SADDAM HUSSEIN AND AL QAEDA, SO WHY ARE WE ATTACKING IRAQ IF THERE’S NO PROVEN LINK? WHAT’S THE POINT OF THIS? THE POINT APPEARS TO BE OIL.

GAY YEE>> OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAKEN TO THESE STREETS, THE SISTERS OF SOCIAL SERVICE MAY BE THE BIGGEST BELIEVERS IN THE VIRTUE OF PATIENCE AND THEY BELIEVE THAT’S THE ANSWER TO THE CURRENT CRISIS FACING AMERICA AND THE WORLD.

SISTER ANNE FIELD>> WE CAN’T LET THE CHILDREN AND THE MOTHERS AND THE PEOPLE BE KILLED IN IRAQ. THEY’RE ORDINARY PEOPLE. WE TRY TO FOLLOW THE WAY OF JESUS IN JUST A NON-VIOLENT WAY OF LOVING EVERYBODY. NOT JUST LOVING US IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT LOVING EVERYBODY.

JESS>> WE’RE TOLD THAT KEEPING THE PEACE DEPENDS LARGELY UPON THE FINDINGS OF THOSE U.N. INSPECTORS NOW ON THE GROUNDS IN IRAQ. MEANWHILE, SADDAM HUSSEIN HAS JUST A FEW MORE DAYS TO DECLARE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION HE MAY BE HOLDING.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, A LOOK AT HOW ONE RETIRED TEACHER IS MAKING A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE LIVES OF HOMELESS KIDS. SHE’S HELPING THEM KEEP UP WITH SCHOOL EVEN ON THE STREETS.

>> SO ONE NIGHT, I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT IT AND I THOUGHT, WELL, WHAT COULD YOU DO? YOU CAN’T MAKE IT PERFECT, BUT WHAT COULD YOU DO TO HELP THESE CHILDREN? SO I KIND OF WROTE ON A LITTLE SCRAP PAPER, YOU KNOW, ONE-TO-ONE TUTORING WOULD BE GOOD.

JESS>> THERE’S NO SHORTAGE OF VILLAINS FOR AMERICA TO WORRY OVER THESE DAYS, BUT IT’S CLEARLY NOT THE FIRST TIME WE’VE FACED THAT PROBLEM. DURING WORLD WAR II, ADOLPH HITLER’S DEATH CAMPS HELPED SLAUGHTER SIX MILLION JEWS IN ADDITION TO ALL THE OTHER VICTIMS OF THE WAR. THE QUESTION IS, WHY DIDN’T PRESIDENT FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT ORDER THE BOMBING OF THE OVENS OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE RAIL LINES THAT CARRIED THE VICTIMS TO THE DEATH CAMPS?

VAL>> A NEW BOOK HAS SOME ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS AND MORE. IT IS CALLED “THE CONQUERORS: ROOSEVELT, TRUMAN AND THE DESTRUCTION OF HITLER’S GERMANY”. THE AUTHOR IS NOTED PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN, MICHAEL BESCHLOSS. HE SPOKE WITH JESS AND ME ABOUT THE UNTOLD STORIES OF WORLD WAR II.

JESS>> REVIEWERS HAVE SAID THAT WE THOUGHT THERE WAS NOTHING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE GREAT LEADERS DURING WORLD WAR II THAT WE HAD NOT HEARD BEFORE, BUT YOU FOUND MATERIAL THAT HAD NOT BEEN PUBLISHED BEFORE.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> YEAH. THAT’S A GREAT THING ABOUT HISTORY, JESS, BECAUSE EVEN THIS LONG AFTERWARDS, YOU CAN FIND A LOT OF STUFF THAT TELLS YOU NEW THINGS ABOUT EVEN SOMETHING THAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT, LIKE WORLD WAR II. FOR INSTANCE, IN RECENT YEARS, THE BRITISH INTELLIGENCE ARCHIVES HAVE OPENED, CIA ARCHIVES, AND ALSO ESPECIALLY THE SOVIET UNION HAS BEEN OPENING A LOT OF DOCUMENTS THAT PEOPLE IN MY LINE OF WORK THOUGHT WE WOULD NEVER SEE, DOCUMENTS THAT SHOW WHAT STALIN WAS DOING AND THINKING DURING WORLD WAR II.

JESS>> WHAT WAS YOUR GREATEST SURPRISE?

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> THE SURPRISE WAS THAT FDR DEALT SO BADLY WITH THE HOLOCAUST. I FOUND THAT, IN 1942, ROOSEVELT WAS PRIVATELY TOLD THAT HITLER WAS TRYING TO EXTERMINATE THE JEWS OF EUROPE AND, FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF, JEWISH LEADERS WOULD GO TO HIM AND BEG AND SAY REVEAL THIS, GIVE A SPEECH AGAINST IT, AND ROOSEVELT WOULDN’T DO IT. HE’D SAY, YOU KNOW, MY ANSWER IS, WELL, WE’LL JUST WIN THE WAR, AND THAT WAS A DISAPPOINTMENT.

WHAT I ALSO FOUND WAS THAT HIS TREASURY SECRETARY, HENRY MORGENTHAU, HIS CLOSEST FRIEND IN THE GOVERNMENT WHO WAS JEWISH BUT SO UNOBSERVANT THAT HE’D NEVER ATTENDED A PASSOVER SEDER, LEARNED ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST, IT RADICALIZED HIM AND HE WENT TO FDR AND SAID THIS HAS GOT TO STOP. YOU’VE GOT TO START HELPING JEWISH REFUGEES TO GET OUT OF EUROPE. YOU ALSO HAVE TO EXPLORE WAYS TO STOP THE KILLING.

VAL>> AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS ALSO BROUGHT TO ROOSEVELT’S ATTENTION THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT IS THAT, DURING THE AERIAL BOMBING OF GERMANY, THERE WAS AN OPTION OR AN OPPORTUNITY TO BOMB AUSCHWITZ. IS THAT CORRECT?

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> HE WAS ASKED -- THE WHITE HOUSE WAS ASKED, YOU KNOW, DO YOU WANT TO EXPLORE THE IDEA OF POSSIBLY BOMBING THE DEATH CAMPS TO STOP THE KILLING, THAT IT MIGHT SAVE MORE LIVES THAN YOU WOULD LOSE. TO MY HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT, THIS DID GO TO ROOSEVELT WHO SORT OF FLICKED THIS AWAY LIKE A FLY OFF OF HIS LAPEL, DIDN’T DEAL WITH IT SERIOUSLY, ALTHOUGH THIS WAS ONE OF THE GREAT DECISIONS TO FACE A PRESIDENT.

HE ALWAYS DISTRUSTED WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS SPECIAL PLEADING. EARLY IN THE WAR, MORGENTHAU AND LEO CROWLEY, A CATHOLIC OFFICIAL, HAD LUNCH WITH ROOSEVELT AND ROOSEVELT SAID TO THEM THAT YOU GUYS HAVE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT AMERICA IS A PROTESTANT COUNTRY AND YOU JEWS AND CATHOLICS ARE HERE BY SUFFERANCE, SO YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT I ASK YOU TO. MORGENTHAU, WHO ADORED ROOSEVELT, WENT BACK TO HIS OFFICE AND SAID, YOU KNOW, WHAT AM I WORKING TWENTY-FOUR HOURS A DAY FOR IF AMERICA IS NOT FOR ME TOO?

JESS>> THIS RADICALIZING OF MORGENTHAU, HE CAME UP THEN WITH THE MORGENTHAU PLAN WHICH WAS IN EFFECT THE ABSOLUTE DESTRUCTION OF GERMANY.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> THAT’S RIGHT. IT’S SORT OF A WONDERFUL STORY BECAUSE HE WAS SO EMOTIONALLY AFFECTED BY WHAT HE HAD BEEN TOLD. THE RABBI WHO HAD OFFICIATED AT HIS WEDDING, STEPHEN WISE, CAME TO MORGENTHAU AND SAID, HENRY, DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY’RE MAKING LAMPSHADES OUT OF THE SKINS OF THE JEWS? ONE THING IT LED HIM TO DO WAS TO CONFRONT FDR AND FINALLY GET HIM, VERY LATE IN THE GAME, TO TRY TO HELP REFUGEES.

THE OTHER THING WAS, MORGENTHAU WAS TERRIFIED THAT, EVEN IF WE AMERICANS WON WORLD WAR II AGAINST GERMANY, WE WOULD HAVE TO ONE DAY FIGHT GERMANY ONCE AGAIN UNDER SOME FUTURE ADOLPH HITLER. SO HE CAME UP WITH THIS PLAN TO CRUSH GERMANY, REDUCE IT TO THE LOWEST LEVEL OF SUBSISTENCE, BOTH SO THAT THE GERMANS WOULD KNOW THAT THEY HAD LOST THE WAR AND ALSO BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THAT THIS WOULD KEEP THEM FROM EVER RISING AGAIN TO MAKE ANOTHER WAR.

JESS>> BUT IT WAS HARRY TRUMAN WHO REALLY TURNED IT ALL AROUND, WASN’T IT?

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> TRUMAN’S IDEA WAS -- YOU KNOW, TRUMAN WENT IN THE SUMMER OF ’45 TO SEE DEFEATED BERLIN. HE WENT IN HIS CAR, HE WENT THROUGH HITLER’S BUNKER -- I’VE GOT ALL THESE SCENES IN THE BOOK -- AND SAW HITLER’S OFFICES AND HE SAW THESE GERMANS WALKING AROUND IN TATTERS. THE INTERESTING THING IS, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS REMINDS ME OF WHAT MY CONFEDERATE GRANDMOTHER TOLD ME IN MISSOURI. SHE SAID THAT, AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, THE YANKEES BURNED OUR BARNS AND STOLE OUR HORSES AND IT MADE US SO BITTER THAT IT REALLY PREVENTED RECONCILIATION BETWEEN NORTH AND SOUTH. TRUMAN’S IDEA WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, PUNISH THE NAZIS, GET THEM OUT OF POSITIONS OF POWER, BUT THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO TO PREVENT HITLER FROM EVER HAPPENING AGAIN IS TO MAKE GERMANY INTO A DEMOCRACY AND THAT REQUIRES GETTING GERMANS TO LIKE AMERICANS.

VAL>> SO IT WAS TRUMAN WHO REALLY SQUASHED MORGENTHAU’S MORE REVENGEFUL PLAN, CORRECT?

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> HE DID, BUT IT WASN’T ALWAYS FOR GOOD REASONS. I MEAN, THERE WAS ANOTHER SIDE OF TRUMAN I FOUND. FOR INSTANCE, JUST AFTER HE BECAME PRESIDENT, THE DEATH CAMPS WERE OPEN, THERE WERE THESE HORRIBLE PICTURES IN NEWSPAPERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. EVEN MANY AMERICAN ANTI-SEMITES SAID, YOU KNOW, HOW COULD I HAVE SAID AND THOUGHT SUCH THINGS ABOUT A PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED SO MUCH? TRUMAN, FOR REASONS THAT, YOU KNOW, I STILL CANNOT FIGURE OUT, WOULD SEE THESE PICTURES IN THE DAY AND THEN AT NIGHT WRITE IN HIS DIARY SUCH THINGS AS THE JEWS THINK THAT THEY’RE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE. I THINK GOD HAD BETTER JUDGMENT.

VAL>> WOW.

JESS>> ANYONE READING YOUR BOOK IS GOING TO BE STRUCK BY THE EFFORT TO GET RID OF ADOLPH HITLER AND THERE ARE ECHOES OF THE EFFORTS TO GET RID OF SADDAM HUSSEIN. DO YOU FIND ANY PARALLELS BETWEEN WHAT PRESIDENT BUSH IS DOING OR SAYING AND WHAT FDR WAS DOING AND SAYING?

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> ABSOLUTELY. IN BOTH CASES, YOU'VE GOT A PRESIDENT WHO'S FIGHTING FOR ABSOLUTE VICTORY, NOT TO SIGN A PEACE TREATY --

JESS>> -- UNCONDITIONAL.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. ROOSEVELT FELT, FOR INSTANCE, THAT THE WAR FEVER WAS SO DEEP IN THE GERMANS THAT HE ONCE SAID THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO CASTRATE THE GERMAN MEN AFTER THE WAR TO KEEP THEM FROM REPRODUCING PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MAKE WAR.

VAL>> WOW, THAT'S AMAZING.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> THAT'S HOW DEEPLY HE FELT THAT. GEORGE BUSH, I THINK, IS NOT ENCOUNTERING THE SAME PROBLEM OR THE SAME SOLUTION, I THINK. BUT THE POINT IS THAT, THIS TIME, IF THIS WAR IS GOING TO GO FORWARD, RIGHT OR WRONG, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A SITUATION WHICH WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO ABSOLUTE VICTORY PLUS, AS IN POST-WAR GERMANY, STAY THERE, HELP THEM BUILD SCHOOLS, MAKE IRAQ INTO A DEMOCRACY THAT COULD SPREAD THROUGH THE MIDDLE EAST --

JESS>> -- BUT WE'RE DENYING ANY OCCUPATION OF IRAQ.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THE ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID AT THIS POINT. I THINK THAT, IF WE ARE GOING TO GET INTO THIS, OUR PRESIDENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO TELL US VERY MUCH AT THE OUTSET THAT THIS IS WHAT THIS WAR COULD COST IN LIVES AND TREASURE. ALSO, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO STAY THERE. WE CAN'T JUST WALK OUT ONCE THE VICTORY IS WON.

VAL>> WELL, THAT, IN FACT, IS THE THRUST OF YOUR BOOK IS HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO TRANSITION GERMANY INTO A STABLE DEMOCRACY AND THOSE DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE AT YALTA WERE JUST KEY. THEY WERE CRUCIAL IN SETTING THE STAGE.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS>> ABSOLUTELY. YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A GALLUP POLL IN THE SPRING OF 1945 AFTER WE AMERICANS HAD WON WORLD WAR II OF DO YOU THINK YOU AMERICANS WILL HAVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER WAR AGAINST GERMANY UNDER SOME FUTURE HITLER EVEN THOUGH WE'VE WON THE WAR? A HUGE MAJORITY SAID, YES, WE DO. WE THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS ALMOST WOVEN INTO THE GERMAN GENETIC CODE. ONE OF THE BEST THINGS WE AMERICANS HAVE EVER DONE IN OUR HISTORY IS HELP THE GERMANS TO BECOME A DEMOCRACY NOT ONLY FOR THEIR OWN SAKE, BUT SO THAT THE WORLD WILL NEVER HAVE TO SUFFER THROUGH THAT AGAIN, WE HOPE.

VAL>> MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS INTO OUR HISTORY. THE BOOK, AGAIN, IS CALLED "THE CONQUERORS: ROOSEVELT, TRUMAN AND THE DESTRUCTION OF HITLER'S GERMANY, 1941-1945".

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JESS>> A FEDERAL COURT HAS BLOCKED EXPANDED OIL DRILLING OFF THE CALIFORNIA COAST, BUT PRESIDENT BUSH STILL WANTS TO PERMIT DRILLING IN AREAS CURRENTLY OFF-LIMITS. PATT HAS A FEW THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT. IT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> ONCE AGAIN, THE STRONGEST THING STANDING BETWEEN CALIFORNIA'S ENVIRONMENT AND ITS POTENTIAL DESPOILERS IS A PIECE OF PAPER. THE NINTH CIRCUIT COURT HAS RULED THAT THE STATE COASTAL COMMISSION, NOT A FAR-OFF FEDERAL AGENCY, HAS POWER OVER OFFSHORE OIL AND GAS DRILLING LEASES. THIS DECISION REALLY NEEDS NO LEGAL FOOTNOTES. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK ANY FURTHER THAN SPAIN AND FLORIDA.

ON WHAT IS BEING CALLED SPAIN'S COAST OF DEATH, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TONS OF OIL FROM AN AGING OIL TANKER THAT BROKE UP HAVE WASHED ASHORE, DEVASTATING BIRDS AND MARINE LIFE AND THE LOCAL FISHING INDUSTRY. IN FLORIDA THIS YEAR, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, WHICH IS EAGER TO DRILL IN AN ALASKAN WILDERNESS, BECAME SENSITIVE TO TOURISM AND ENVIRONMENTALISM AND TO JEB BUSH'S RE-ELECTION. IT BOUGHT BACK FLORIDA'S UNUSED OIL AND GAS LEASES EFFECTIVELY PUTTING ITS WATERS OFF-LIMITS TO DRILLING, BUT REFUSED TO DO THE SAME FOR CALIFORNIA.

THE ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS DEFENDED STATES' RIGHTS OVER FEDERAL ONES ADROITLY SWITCHED TO THE OTHER FOOT WHEN IT CAME TO CALIFORNIA DRILLING AND, IN STUPEFYINGLY, ORWELLIAN STATEMENTS, INTERIOR SECRETARY GALE NORTON SAID THAT, BECAUSE CALIFORNIA ALREADY HAS OFFSHORE DRILLING -- THESE LEASES THE STATE WAS STUCK WITH AGES AGO -- "FLORIDA OPPOSES COASTAL DRILLING AND CALIFORNIA DOES NOT." HELLO? IF ANYTHING IS THE THIRD RAIL OF CALIFORNIA POLITICS, IT'S COASTAL DRILLING.

SINCE THE SANTA BARBARA OIL BLOW-OUT OF 1969, NO POLITICIAN WITH A PRAYER HAS ARGUED FOR PUTTING MORE RIGS OFF THE COAST. THE PICTURES OF OIL-COATED BIRDS AND BEACHES WAS THE GREEN FIRE AND HELPED CREATE THE VERY FIRST EARTH DAY. SINCE THEN, NOT A SINGLE NEW LEASE HAS BEEN GRANTED IN STATE WATERS AND THE FEDERAL MORATORIUM HAS LASTED MORE THAN TWENTY YEARS. WHEN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION ASTONISHINGLY EXTENDED EXISTING LEASES, CALIFORNIA SUED AND WON.

THE REAL VICTORY FOR EVERYONE, CALIFORNIANS, THE ENVIRONMENT AND BIRDS AND BEASTS EVERYWHERE, WOULD BE TRUE ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. NOT JUST SWITCHING THE NATION'S OIL SOURCES FROM THE MIDEAST TO SOUTH AMERICA OR FROM AFRICA TO ALASKA, BUT FINDING OTHER WAYS FOR POWERING THE ENGINES OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE, OF MEDICINE AND SCIENCE. THE BABY THAT'S BEEN HOWLING FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY FOR GALLONS OF THIS GUNK IS THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE. IT WAS BORN ABOUT TWELVE DECADES AGO. IT'S HIGH TIME IT WAS WEANED OFF ITS PETROL FORMULA AND THE REST OF US ALONG WITH IT.

VAL>> THEY ARE AMONG THE MOST SACRED RELICS OF THE BUDDHIST RELIGION, THE REMNANTS OF GREAT MASTERS AND THEIR PERSONAL BELONGINGS. THIS RARE COLLECTION IS ON A WORLD TOUR. SOME TIME SOON, THEY'LL BE ENSHRINED FOREVER IN A HUGE STATUE OF THE NEXT BUDDHA THAT'S CURRENTLY BEING BUILT IN INDIA. BUT FOR NOW, THE RELICS CAN BE SEEN BY THE PUBLIC.

JESS>> BUDDHISTS SAY THE HEART SHRINE RELIC TOUR HAS A SPECIAL MISSION AND THAT'S TO HELP BUILD COMPASSION IN THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO SEE IT. JOINING US NOW IS THE TOUR COORDINATOR, VICTORIA EWART. WE SURE THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I NOTICE, IN DISPLAYING THE RELICS, YOU'RE WEARING A MASK.

VICTORIA EWART>> THAT'S RIGHT, YES.

JESS>> AND THE PURPOSE?

VICTORIA EWART>> WELL, IT'S THREE REASONS. FIRST OF ALL, IT'S TO PREVENT MY BREATHING ONTO THESE HOLY OBJECTS AND SORT OF SCATTERING TO THE FOUR WINDS WHICH WE DON'T WANT. SECONDLY, IT'S BECAUSE I DON'T PUT MY GERMS ONTO SOMETHING SO PRECIOUS AND HOLY.

JESS>> TELL US SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE RELICS ARE.

VICTORIA EWART>> WHAT THEY ARE IS THE PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION OF THE ESSENCE OF THE WISDOM OF THE BUDDHA. IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN WE THINK OF RELICS, WE THINK OF SOMETHING DEAD, PRETTY UNATTRACTIVE, MAYBE NOT SMELLING SO GOOD OR INANIMATE. BUT THESE RELICS ARE ACTUALLY ALIVE, THEY'RE LIVING. THEY HOLD THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE BUDDHA.

VAL>> AND THEY'RE NOT JUST OBJECTS, BUT THEY ARE ACTUALLY THE REMAINS OF THE GREAT BUDDHAS AFTER THEY WERE CREMATED, CORRECT? AND WHAT WAS LEFT OF -- IT WAS NOT JUST ASHES, BUT ACTUAL FRAGMENTS OF WHAT YOU WOULD CALL THEIR SACRED BEINGS?

VICTORIA EWART>> WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY IS THAT WHEN THE BUDDHA WAS CREMATED, FROM AMONG HIS ASHES THERE WERE THESE TINY PEARLS APPEARED. THEY WERE COLLECTED BY THE BUDDHA'S DISCIPLES AND KEPT VERY PRECIOUSLY AND THEY WERE DELIBERATELY CREATED BY THE BUDDHA AS OBJECTS OF --

VAL>> -- SO THESE PEARLS ARE THE RELICS, CORRECT?

VICTORIA EWART>> THEY ARE THE RELICS. THAT'S RIGHT.

JESS>> AND THE PURPOSE OF THE TOUR?

VICTORIA EWART>> THE PURPOSE OF THE TOUR IS TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO SEE THESE RELICS AND CREATE GOOD KARMA. THEY CREATE VIRTUOUS CONDUCT BY COMING TO THESE RELICS AND ALSO THEY EXPERIENCE THE HEALING ENERGY OF THESE RELICS. IT'S NOT JUST FOR BUDDHIST PEOPLE. IT'S UNIVERSAL. IT'S FOR EVERYONE.

VAL>> WE'RE LOOKING AT THEM NOW HERE. YOU HAVE THEM SPREAD OUT, CORRECT?

VICTORIA EWART>> THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S THE ENTIRE COLLECTION.

VAL>> THAT'S THE ENTIRE COLLECTION?

VICTORIA EWART>> YES.

VAL>> SO THE RELICS ARE IN THOSE BEAUTIFUL GLASS CONTAINERS, IS THAT CORRECT?

VICTORIA EWART>> THERE'S MORE THAN ONE THOUSAND RELICS AMONG THESE TWENTY-EIGHT STUPAS.

VAL>> STUPAS. IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL THE CONTAINERS?

VICTORIA EWART>> THE STUPA IS THE CONTAINER AND IT SYMBOLIZES THE MIND OF THE BUDDHA, THE ENLIGHTENED MIND OF THE BUDDHA, YES.

VAL>> THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL.

JESS>> AND HOW SHOULD PEOPLE RESPOND TO THESE RELICS?

VICTORIA EWART>> WELL, I'VE BEEN ON THIS TOUR FOR A YEAR AND A HALF NOW AND I THINK DIFFERENT PEOPLE RESPOND IN DIFFERENT WAYS. WHAT I SEE IS THAT PEOPLE EXPERIENCE A HEART OPENING AND SOME SORT OF GENTLE, PEACEFUL, LOVING ENERGY WHICH IS WHAT THE STATUE, THE MAITREYA BUDDHA STATUE, IS SUPPOSED TO SIGNIFY.

JESS>> NOW ORDINARILY, WE'D EXPECT THESE TO BE DISPLAYED IN A TEMPLE.

VICTORIA EWART>> INSIDE A STATUE, YES. THEY WOULDN'T NORMALLY BE ON PUBLIC DISPLAY. THEY'RE NORMALLY ENSHRINED AND SHROUDED INSIDE A HOLY OBJECT. THIS IS VERY RARE.

VAL>> AND THIS SHRINE THAT THEY WILL EVENTUALLY BE ENSHRINED IN IS A HUGE STATUE THAT'S BEING BUILT NOW IN NORTHERN INDIA OF THE BUDDHA, BUT IT'S AN UNUSUAL BUDDHA, RIGHT? IT'S NOT A BUDDHA THAT'S MEDITATING LIKE WE USUALLY SEE?

VICTORIA EWART>> THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S NOT THE HISTORICAL BUDDHA, THE SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, BUT THE FUTURE BUDDHA, THE BUDDHA OF LOVE AND KINDNESS AND COMPASSION. THE BUDDHA IS ACTIVE IN A STANCE. HE'S GETTING UP AS IF TO HELP US BECAUSE I THINK YOUR PROGRAM HAS SHOWN SO FAR THAT WE ARE REALLY IN DIFFICULT TIMES NOW. THE PURPOSE OF BUILDING THIS STATUE, AS STRANGE AS IT MAY SEEM, IS TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE CONDITIONS WE FIND IN THE WORLD. IT'S NOW ABOUT CHANGING OURSELVES AND OUR COLLECTIVE SITUATION.

JESS>> EACH OF THE RELICS IS UNIQUE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT. WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THEM?

VICTORIA EWART>> WELL, THE RELICS COME FROM DIFFERENT MASTERS. THESE RELICS ARE OF THE PREVIOUS BUDDHA. THIS IS THE BUDDHA BEFORE SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA. THESE RELICS WERE ENSHRINED INSIDE A STATUE IN TIBET WHICH THE CHINESE COMMUNISTS DESECRATED. THE RELICS WERE SALVAGED BY SOME TIBETAN PEOPLE AND OFFERED TO MY TEACHER, LAMA ZOPA RINPOCHE. BUT THEY'VE MULTIPLIED DURING THE TOUR. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE PARTICULAR SPECIAL. I WANTED TO POINT THOSE OUT.

I HAD A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN IN JUNE OF LAST YEAR IN NEW ZEALAND AS PART OF THE TOUR AND THERE WERE ONLY TWO RELICS. THEN I CHECKED A MONTH LATER AND THERE WERE THREE ADDITIONAL RELICS. VERY SMALL, BUT THEY WERE THERE. I ASKED MY TEACHER HOW THIS COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN, RELICS APPEARING OUT OF THIN AIR, AND HE SAID IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE COME WITH A MIND OF RESPECT. THEY CREATE THE CONDITIONS IN THEIR ENLIGHTENED ENVIRONMENT TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THESE RELICS. SIMILARLY, THESE RELICS ARE OF THE BUDDHA'S DISCIPLE, ANANDA. IT'S HIS COUSIN ACTUALLY. THESE WERE BROWN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TOUR. NOW THEY'RE PURE WHITE AND THE ONE IN THE CENTER IS COMPLETELY NEW.

VAL>> NOW HOW OLD IS THE OLDEST ONE?

VICTORIA EWART>> THOUSANDS OF YEARS. THE OLDEST ONE IS THE ONE YOU'VE JUST SEEN.

VAL>> AND IT'S THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD. SO THIS BUDDHA LIVED --

VICTORIA EWART>> -- WELL, BEFORE 500 B.C. THE HISTORICAL SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA WAS ALIVE 500 B.C. TASHAFA BUDDHA WAS BEFORE THAT.

JESS>> AND THESE WILL BE ENSHRINED IN THE NEW BUDDHA?

VICTORIA EWART>> IN THE NEW STATUE, YES.

JESS>> IN THE NEW STATUE.

VAL>> AND THE NEW BUDDHA, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE BUILDING A STATUE OF HIM, THE NEW BUDDHA HAS NOT ACTUALLY BEEN IDENTIFIED YET. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT PROCESS.

VICTORIA EWART>> THE NEW BUDDHA IS MAITREYA BUDDHA. MAITREYA IS A SANSKRIT WORD MEANING THE BUDDHA OF LOVING KINDNESS OR COMPASSION.

VAL>> THIS WILL BE THE NEXT BUDDHA, RIGHT?

VICTORIA EWART>> THAT'S RIGHT.

VAL>> BUT IT COULD TAKE YEARS AND YEARS AND CENTURIES TO DISCOVER HIM OR HER?

VICTORIA EWART>> IT TAKES THOUSANDS OF YEARS, YES.

VAL>> WOW.

JESS>> THANKS VERY MUCH, MS. EWART. YOU CAN FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE HEART SHRINE RELIC TOUR AT THEIR WEBSITE. LOG ONTO THE ADDRESS NOW ON YOUR SCREEN AND YOU CAN SEE THE RELICS CURRENTLY ON DISPLAY AT THE BODHI TREE IN WEST HOLLYWOOD. THE ITEMS WILL BE THERE THIS WEDNESDAY AND THURSDAY.

[WWW.MAITREYAPROJECT.ORG/RELICTOUR]

VAL>> ONLY TWO DAYS, BUT LONG ENOUGH FOR THOSE TO GO SEE IT. AS ALWAYS, YOU CAN FIND OUT WHAT WE ARE PLANNING FOR OUR UPCOMING SHOWS. JUST GO TO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG. CLICK ON LIFE AND TIMES, CHECK TO SEE WHAT'S COMING UP, GET TRANSCRIPTS OF PAST PROGRAMS, ALL SORTS OF RESOURCES AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.

JESS>> AND THAT'S TONIGHT'S PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS AND GOODNIGHT.

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THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
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AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
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TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.