12/17/02

LC021217

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

THEY’VE CRACKED DOWN ON THE HOMELESS AND SAID NO TO THE LIVING WAGE, SO WHAT’S HAPPENING TO THAT BASTION OF LIBERALISM, SANTA MONICA?

MIKE FEINSTEIN>> FOR YEARS, WE’VE BEEN ONE OF THE MOST COMPASSIONATE CITIES. WE’VE REALLY TRIED TO HELP PEOPLE GET OFF THE STREET AND HELP THEMSELVES. BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE AROUND THE REGION HAVEN’T TAKEN THEIR SHARE, OUR RESIDENTS REALLY FEEL LIKE THEY’RE DOING MORE THAN THEIR SHARE.

VAL>> IF WE’RE NOT WAGING A WAR ON THE GANGS, WHAT IS IT? TONIGHT WE’LL HEAR FROM A PRIEST WHO’S URGING THE LAPD TO TONE DOWN ITS RHETORIC. HE SAYS MORE TOUGH TALK FROM THE COPS IS THE LAST THING SOUTH L.A. NEEDS RIGHT NOW.

AND IT MAY BE THE SEASON FOR GIVING, BUT PATT SAYS BE CAREFUL. THOSE DOLLARS MAY WIND UP LINING SOMEONE’S POCKET.

PATT MORRISON>> BE GENEROUS, BUT BE SMART. THE SEASON OF GIVING DOESN’T HAVE TO BE THE SEASON OF SUSPENDING YOUR JUDGMENT -- ON TONIGHT’S INFINITELY MORRISON.

VAL>> THEN WE’LL MEET A YOUNG MAN WHO’S HAVING SOME SERIOUS DOUBTS ABOUT HIS RELIGION AND HE’S HAVING TROUBLE RECONCILING HIS TEMPTATIONS WITH HIS CATHOLIC UPBRINGING.

ANTHONY VALDEZ>> THE CHURCH SAYS SO MANY THINGS THAT CONTRADICTS YOUR LIFE, YOU KNOW, AS A TEENAGER, ESPECIALLY SEXUALITY. YOU KNOW, HORMONES RIGHT NOW ARE FULL SPEED AHEAD AND IT’S LIKE THE CHURCH IS, YOU KNOW, TELLING YOU TO COOL IT DOWN AND YOU’RE JUST LIKE, HEY, I CAN’T.

VAL>> WE CONTINUE OUR LOOK AT THE SPIRITUAL LIVES OF TEENAGERS.

IT’S ALL COMING UP NEXT ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I’M VAL ZAVALA. JESS HAS THE NIGHT OFF.

SANTA MONICA HAS LONG BEEN DUBBED THE BERKELEY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, BUT YOU’D NEVER KNOW IT FROM WHAT’S BEEN HAPPENING THERE LATELY. FIRST, THE CITY GOT TOUGH ON PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO FEED THE HOMELESS. THEN IT REJECTED A LIVING WAGE PROPOSAL FOR WORKERS AT SOME OF THE POSH BEACHFRONT HOTELS AND RESTAURANTS. DOES THAT MEAN SANTA MONICA IS READY TO TRADE IN ITS ACLU CARD FOR A PLATINUM AMEX CARD? TONIGHT TONI GUINYARD TRIES TO FIND OUT WHAT’S HAPPENING TO THE CITY BY THE SEA.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE CITY OF SANTA MONICA IS UNDERGOING A TRANSFORMATION LEAVING SOME TO WONDER IS THIS REALLY THE LIBERAL COMPASSIONATE COMMUNITY IT ONCE WAS? THE CHANGES HAPPENING CITYWIDE ARE REFLECTED IN WHAT’S TAKING PLACE ON THE THIRD STREET PROMENADE. EVEN THE RAIN CAN’T OBSCURE THE OBVIOUS. CHAIN STORES NOW STAND WHERE SMALLER INDEPENDENT BUSINESSES ONCE STOOD. A FEW ARE LEFT. THE JEWEL SHOP IS ONE OF THEM. FROM BEHIND THE COUNTER, TONY AYOUB HAS WATCHED SANTA MONICA TRANSFORM FROM A SMALL TOWN TO BIG CITY.

TONY AYOUB>> SANTA MONICA, AT LEAST TO ME, WAS A QUIET CITY. NOWADAYS, ALL THE BIG NAMES ARE HERE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A BIG PLUS TO OUR COMMUNITY.

KATHLEEN RAWSON>> IT’S GONE THROUGH A TREMENDOUS TRANSFORMATION. THE DOWNTOWN AREA HAS GONE FROM A VERY SLEEPY SOMEWHAT SEEDY AREA TWELVE YEARS AGO TO ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ENTERTAINMENT AND RETAIL DISTRICTS IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT, WITH SUCCESS, COMES BIG CITY PROBLEMS THAT EXTEND FAR BEYOND THE RETAIL SHOPS AND DEEP INTO NEIGHBORHOODS.

MIKE FEINSTEIN>> SANTA MONICA, LIKE ANYWHERE REALLY, EMBODIES THE DUALITIES AND WE ARE BOTH LIBERAL AND HAVING GENTRIFICATION HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME. PEOPLE WHO HAVE MONEY WHO ARE LIBERAL MOVE HERE. NEVERTHELESS, THE TRENDS OF THE LARGER ECONOMY DO FORCE CHANGES ON US.

TONI GUINYARD>> THOSE CHANGES HAVE FORMER MAYOR, MIKE FEINSTEIN, AND OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS FACING TOUGH DECISIONS. AFTER YEARS OF PASSING LEGISLATION TO HELP THE HOMELESS, THE CITY COUNCIL DID WHAT APPEARED TO BE AN ABOUT-FACE.

MIKE FEINSTEIN>> MY COLLEAGUES IN A FIVE TO TWO VOTE IN WHICH I OPPOSED WENT AHEAD AND VOTED TO TRY AND CURTAIL THE FOOD PROGRAMS IN THIS COMMUNITY WITH THE IDEA OF TRYING TO DRIVE OUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE AND MAKE THEM GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

TONI GUINYARD>> YET, AT THE SAME TIME, THE CITY’S BAYSIDE DISTRICT CORPORATION COLLECTS SPARE CHANGE TO FUND SOCIAL SERVICE AND HOMELESS PROGRAMS. A TOTAL OF $100,000 HAS BEEN COLLECTED SINCE THE PROGRAM STARTED IN 1993. SO DESPITE RECENT LAWS PASSED NEGATIVELY IMPACTING THE HOMELESS, WE’RE TOLD THEY HAVE A PLACE HERE IN THE CITY.

KATHLEEN RAWSON>> I DON’T THINK IT’S A QUESTION OF CAN THEY FIT IN BECAUSE THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY PART OF OUR SOCIETY HERE. SANTA MONICA IS A VERY COMPASSIONATE COMMUNITY, ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND CONTINUES TO BE.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT DIFFERENT PEOPLE MEASURE COMPASSION IN DIFFERENT WAYS. THE PICO YOUTH AND FAMILY CENTER WAS FUNDED BY THE SANTA MONICA CITY COUNCIL. ITS FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR SAYS A LOT MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR THE WORKING POOR.

OSCAR DE LA TORRE>> YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN HOW WE TALK ABOUT THIS LIBERALISM OR PROGRESSIVE CITY. THERE ARE DISPARITIES AND THOSE DISPARITIES, UNFORTUNATELY, MANY TIMES FOLLOW ALONG RACIAL LINES. IT’S A TALE OF TWO CITIES. IT’S A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE IF YOU’RE BLACK AND LATINO AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE IN THE PICO NEIGHBORHOOD AND IF YOU LIVE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY. IT’S A POCKET OF POVERTY AND THAT’S SOMETHING THAT WE STILL HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO DEAL WITH OR HEAL FROM THE PAIN THAT EMANATES FROM THAT TYPE OF ECONOMIC DISPARITY.

TONI GUINYARD>> DE LA TORRE SAYS THE UNSUCCESSFUL FIGHT FOR A LIVING WAGE AND THE LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING MUST BE ADDRESSED. SALVADOR SANCHEZ-STRAWBRIDGE MOVED FROM THE CITY BECAUSE HE COULD NO LONGER AFFORD TO LIVE HERE.

SALVADOR SANCHEZ-STRAWBRIDGE>> OH, IT’S TOTALLY BECOMING LIKE UPPER-CLASS. THERE’S NOT EVEN REALLY A MIDDLE-CLASS HERE ANYMORE AND IT’S REALLY SAD BECAUSE THE CLASSES ARE REALLY CLASHING. IT’S LIKE UPPER-CLASS AND THEN THERE’S REALLY LIKE LOWER-CLASS IN THE LITTLE KIND OF PROJECTS, AS WE SAY, LITTLE APARTMENTS.

VIVIAN ROTHSTEIN>> THERE’S BEEN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RIDICULE OF SANTA MONICA OVER THE YEARS, YOU KNOW, THAT THE LANDLORDS RIDICULE SANTA MONICA BY CALLING IT THE PEOPLES’ REPUBLIC OF SANTA MONICA BECAUSE OF OUR STRONG RENT CONTROL LAW, WHICH THEY ULTIMATELY DEFEATED AT THE STATE LEVEL. PEOPLE HAVE RIDICULED THE CITY FOR TRYING TO GRAPPLE WITH THE HOMELESS ISSUE.

TONI GUINYARD>> ROTHSTEIN IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE CITY’S LIVING WAGE CAMPAIGN. SHE’S WILLING TO FIGHT FOR THE CITY SHE’S CALLED HOME FOR TWO DECADES.

VIVIAN ROTHSTEIN>> IT’S DIVERSE, IT’S ECONOMICALLY DIVERSE, IN A WAY THAT I THINK WE’RE TRYING TO HOLD ON DESPERATELY TO AND NOT TO MAKE IT JUST AN UPPER MIDDLE-CLASS TOWN.

TONI GUINYARD>> HOLD ON AND KEEP ITS REPUTATION AS A LIBERAL AND COMPASSIONATE COMMUNITY.

VAL>> REPORTER TONI GUINYARD JOINS US NOW. TONI, ISN’T PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTORS THAT’S DRIVING THE DISPARITY IS THE COST OF HOUSING IN SANTA MONICA? IT’S RIDICULOUS.

TONI GUINYARD>> THAT’S RIGHT, AND WHAT MANY SANTA MONICA RESIDENTS WILL TELL YOU IS THAT IF SOMEONE MOVES OUT, FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE THAT ISSUE OF RENT CONTROL. IT’S A VERY STRONG RENT CONTROL CITY, BUT --

VAL>> -- STILL?

TONI GUINYARD>> STILL, BUT THERE ARE SOME CRACKS IN THE CEMENT ON THIS ONE. BECAUSE WHAT’S HAPPENING IS, AS PEOPLE MOVE OUT, THE LAW HAS BEEN CHANGED BY THE STATE THAT WILL ALLOW THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS TO RAISE THAT RENT --

VAL>> -- UP TO MARKET --

TONI GUINYARD>> -- UP TO MARKET VALUE EVENTUALLY. THEY STILL HAVE THE RENT CONTROL BOARD THERE, BUT THAT IS WHAT’S HAPPENING. SO AS THOSE RENTS GO UP, PEOPLE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO LIVE IN SPECIFIC HOUSING AREAS AND THEY’RE WORKING REAL HARD TO GET SOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THERE. I BELIEVE THE CITY HAS SPENT SOMETHING LIKE $42.5 MILLION DOLLARS TO REHABILITATE SOME OLD HOUSES OR HOME AREAS AND TRY TO GET PEOPLE BACK IN THE CITY AT DIFFERENT LEVELS.

VAL>> AND THAT’S THE RENTAL MARKET.

TONI GUINYARD>> YES.

VAL>> IF YOU’RE IN THE MARKET TO BUY, IT’S ASTRONOMICAL.

TONI GUINYARD>> YES, BUT THEY POINTED OUT TO ME THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN SANTA MONICA ACTUALLY RENT, WHICH I FOUND REAL INTERESTING. YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST ONE OF SEVERAL ISSUES. AS YOU HEARD, THE RENT CONTROL ISSUE, THE LIVING WAGE ISSUE. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE BIG CONTROVERSIES, IN A SENSE, BECAUSE THE CITY IS LOOKING AT HOW TO WE ADDRESS THIS? AND THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO KNOW HOW DO WE ADDRESS IT FROM HERE.

VAL>> NOW THE VOTERS TURNED DOWN THIS LIVING WAGE THING AND YET THE CITY COUNCIL WAS PUSHING IT REALLY, REALLY HARD. WERE THEY OUT OF SYNCH WITH THE VOTERS?

TONI GUINYARD>> WELL, YOU KNOW, TIMES HAVE CHANGED AND THAT’S PART OF WHY WE’RE SITTING HERE DOING THIS STORY SAYING, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, IS SANTA MONICA MORE CONSERVATIVE NOW THAN LIBERAL? BUT ONE GROUP SAID THEY DID A SURVEY AND THE NEW PEOPLE MOVING INTO SANTA MONICA, THE SINGLES WITH HIGHER INCOME, ARE ACTUALLY SAYING THEY’RE MORE LIBERAL THAN THE FOLKS WHO ARE LIVING IN SANTA MONICA A LONG TIME.

VAL>> IT’S ALL RELATIVE. TONI, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

TONI GUINYARD>> YOU BET.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, WE’LL MEET A PAKISTANI JOURNALIST WHO’S QUESTIONED THE PATRIOTISM OF SOME AMERICAN MUSLIMS AND HE CLAIMS THAT’S WHY HIS NEWSPAPER IS IN BIG TROUBLE.

>> TO ME, IN AMERICA, EVERYONE WHO LOVES AMERICA IS AN AMERICAN AND ANYONE WHO DOESN’T LIKE AMERICAN VALUES IS AN ENEMY OF AMERICA. IN MY VIEW, THERE ARE NO SHADES OF GRAYS. THERE ARE ONLY BLACKS AND WHITES.

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VAL>> THE BLOODY WAVE OF GANG VIOLENCE IN SOUTH LOS ANGELES HAS PROMPTED SOME TOUGH TALK FROM L.A.'S NEW POLICE CHIEF. BILL BRATTON REFERRED TO GANG MEMBERS AS "A BUNCH OF NITWITS" AND IT WAS AROUND THE SAME TIME THAT THE LAPD STARTED TALKING ABOUT LAUNCHING A WAR ON THE GANGS. BUT CHIEF BRATTON HAS SINCE BACKED AWAY FROM THAT FIERY RHETORIC ON THE ADVICE OF NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERS AND ONE OF THEM IS HERE TONIGHT. HE IS FATHER GREGORY BOYLE AND HE HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE GANGS IN EAST L.A. FOR SEVENTEEN YEARS. HE RUNS "HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES", AN ORGANIZATION THAT PUTS FORMER GANG MEMBERS TO WORK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> THANK YOU, VAL.

VAL>> NOW MOST PEOPLE WILL JUST EMOTIONALLY GET RIGHT BEHIND BRATTON. THEY'LL SAY, YES, GET TOUGH ON THESE GUYS. YOU KNOW, IF HE SAYS "HANG 'EM HIGH", A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. ARE YOU SAYING THAT THIS RHETORIC IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE? IT SOUNDS LIKE IT ACTUALLY MIGHT SIGNAL TO THE GANGS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET TOUGH.

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> I'M NOT SURE GANGS ARE PAYING MUCH ATTENTION TO THE KIND OF SIGNALS THAT GET SENT FROM THE CHIEF, FRANKLY. YOU KNOW, MY CONCERN WOULD BE IF YOU BEGIN WITH THAT KIND OF RHETORIC, IT SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE TO THE RANK AND FILE IF --

VAL>> -- THE RANK AND FILE OF THE POLICE?

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> OF THE POLICE. IF THIS IS, IN FACT, A WAR, YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEM OF DECLARING IS THAT YOU END UP WAGING IT AND I THINK THAT'S SORT OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH RAMPART. I'M HEARTENED BY THE FACT THAT THE CHIEF HAS STEPPED BACK FROM THE KIND OF RHETORIC THAT I THINK IS MORE PROVOCATIVE THAN IT NEEDS TO BE. EVERY SINGLE FAILED ATTEMPT TO DO SOMETHING EFFECTIVE ABOUT GANGS HAS ALWAYS BEGUN WITH THIS DECLARATION OF WAR. IT'S NEVER WORKED IN THE PAST, SO I'M THINKING IT'S NOT A HELPFUL STANCE AND IT KIND OF INDICATES THAT YOU'RE NOT KIND OF EMBRACING THE MORE INTELLIGENCE, THE SMARTER STRATEGY. THE FEAR WOULD BE THAT WE'D RESORT TO THE OLD WAYS OF DOING THINGS.

VAL>> BUT WE HAVE GONE THROUGH A TIME AFTER THE RAMPART SCANDAL WHERE THE POLICE HAVE BACKED OFF IN TERMS OF GANG ENFORCEMENT AND THERE ARE MORE THAN THREE HUNDRED GANG-RELATED MURDERS SO FAR THIS YEAR. ARE YOU SAYING THAT, NO, IT'S NOT TIME TO MAYBE SWING THE PENDULUM A LITTLE BIT IN THE OTHER DIRECTION? START TALKING A LITTLE TOUGH?

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> THE TALK IS IRRELEVANT TO ME. I JUST THINK THAT MY CONCERN WOULD BE THAT THAT SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE TO THE RANK AND FILE. I GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR THE FACT THAT HE HAS PUT THE GANG ISSUE ON THE FRONT PAGE. THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS. THE BAD NEWS IS THAT I THINK HE'S SAID SOME WRONG THINGS IN THE PROCESS AND STUFF THAT'S NOT HELPFUL AT A TIME WHEN YOU CAN REALLY GALVANIZE THE CITY TO CHOOSE TO BE SMARTER ON THIS AND THEN TO GET ALL HANDS ON DECK. HOW CAN WE GET MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN PREVENTION AND INTERVENTION?

VAL>> YOU ACTUALLY WROTE A REALLY VERY INTERESTING ARTICLE ABOUT THE MYTHS ABOUT GANG MEMBERS WHICH, IF THEY ARE BOUGHT INTO BY THE LAPD, COULD ACTUALLY LEAD THEM IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MAKE A VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION BETWEEN IS GANG MEMBERS VERSUS GANGBANGERS.

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> YEAH, THESE ARE ALL KIND OF BASED ON THE THINGS THAT BRATTON HAD SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING. HE WOULD TALK ABOUT WE'RE OUTNUMBERED, THERE ARE 100,000 GANGBANGERS AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S US, THE LAPD. OF COURSE, ANYBODY WHO WORKS WITH GANGS KNOWS THAT A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THAT NUMBER REALLY ARE ENGAGED IN THE ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES RANGING FROM WRITING ON THE WALLS TO SHOOTING PEOPLE.

VAL>> THE GANGBANGERS, YOU MEAN, THE ONES WHO ARE REALLY DOING THE ILLEGAL STUFF?

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> SO NOT ALL GANG MEMBERS GANGBANG, SO MY POINT IN SORT OF UNDERSCORING THAT IS HOW CAN WE GET THEM TO BRING THE FOCUS TO BEAR REALLY IN ISOLATING AND IDENTIFYING WHO THOSE GANGBANGERS ARE WHO REPRESENT A VERY TINY PERCENTAGE. CERTAINLY OF THE NEARLY THREE HUNDRED-PLUS GANG-RELATED HOMICIDES, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THAT HUNDRED PERCENT WERE INVOLVED IN THAT? WELL, THAT'S VERY TINY.

VAL>> NOW ANOTHER ANALOGY THAT BRATTON HAS EVOKED IS THE MAFIA. YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE GOING TO FIGHT THEM LIKE WE DO THE MAFIA AND ORGANIZED CRIME. YOU'RE SAYING WRONG ANALOGY?

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> YEAH. I MEAN, FIRST OF ALL, THE L.A. GANG SCENE IS UNLIKE ANYTHING HE'S EVER EXPERIENCED IN HIS CAREER AND I'D SAY THAT'S SAFE TO SAY. IF YOU START TO PUT THESE OVERLAYS ON IT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE MAFIA, THE EAST COAST MAFIA, IN TERMS OF STRUCTURE, THIS MORNING THE U.S. ATTORNEY WANTED CERTAINLY TO APPLY RICO, YOU KNOW, THE ORGANIZED CRIME --

VAL>> -- THAT'S THE RACKETEERING.

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> RACKETEERING. BECAUSE WHAT THEY INSIST IN DOING THAT IS THEY'RE SAYING THAT THE LEADERSHIP IS THERE, IT'S THIS HIGHLY-TUNED ORGANIZED -- THIS IS REALLY DISORGANIZED CRIME.

VAL>> GANGS ARE VERY DISORGANIZED?

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN. IF THERE'S LEADERSHIP THERE, GANG MEMBERS DON'T WANT TO BE KNOWN AS LEADERS. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED AS THE LEADER IN ANY KIND OF MAFIA WAY BECAUSE THEN ENEMIES KNOW WHO THAT PERSON IS AND POLICE KNOW WHO THAT PERSON IS. EVERYTHING IS MORE LOOSELY ORGANIZED AND DRIVEN. WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT SAYS IT'S LIKE THE MAFIA, MY CONCERN WOULD BE, WELL, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT ISN'T, SO YOU WOULDN'T WANT IT TO COLOR HOW THEY APPROACH IT.

VAL>> SAY, OKAY, WAR IS NOT THE RIGHT METAPHOR FOR THIS, THEN WHAT WOULD BE?

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> WELL, I THINK WAR IS A SORT OF IRRELEVANT THING. WHAT IT LEADS US TO DO AS A CITY IS TO IDENTIFY THE GANG MEMBER AS THE ENEMY. YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THAT TO ADDRESS THIS AS A CRIME ISSUE. YOU DON'T NEED TO DEMONIZE. I THINK SORT OF THE LAST REFUGE OF THE SCOUNDREL ISN'T PATRIOTISM ANYMORE. IT'S DEMONIZERS. IT'S PEOPLE WHO --

VAL>> -- YEAH, BUT HOW ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO'VE LOST CHILDREN. I MEAN, FOR THEM, THE GANG MEMBERS ARE THE ENEMY. THEY ARE DEMONS IN A WAY. I MEAN, THEY'VE KILLED INNOCENT CHILDREN.

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> YEAH, I'VE BURIED 113 REALLY CLOSE FRIENDS, SO YOU'RE TALKING TO SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT UNFAMILIAR WITH THIS.

VAL>> HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT?

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> WELL, THAT'S EASY FOR ME. I STILL CAN SAY WE BELONG TO EACH OTHER AND THAT IT'S ACTUALLY BAD FOR US AS A HUMAN COMMUNITY TO STRIKE A HIGH MORAL DISTANCE BETWEEN US AND THEM. YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE THEM THE ENEMY TO DEAL WITH THEM. YOU DON'T NEED TO SOMEHOW DEHUMANIZE ANYBODY. IN FACT, IT PREVENTS US FROM DOING THE SMART RIGHT THING IN TERMS OF PREVENTION AND INTERVENTION BECAUSE THAT'S THE GREAT STUMBLING BLOCK RIGHT NOW. THERE'S NO PUBLIC WILL TO DO INTERVENTION BECAUSE WE'VE SO WHOLE-CLOTHED DEMONIZED THIS GROUP IN THE SAME WAY YOU WOULD HAVE YEARS AGO THE DRUG ADDICT. YOU WOULD HAVE SAID, WELL, LET'S NOT HELP THAT PERSON. LET'S ISOLATE THAT PERSON. THIS PERSON IS, YOU KNOW, SORT OF A LEPER. IT'S JUST NOT VERY HELPFUL IN THE LONG RUN TO TALK IN THAT WAY BECAUSE DEMONIZING IS ALWAYS UNTRUTHFUL.

VAL>> VERY INTERESTING. WELL, I'M SURE THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO WOULD TAKE A LITTLE CONTRADICTORY POINT OF VIEW, BUT IT'S ALWAYS WONDERFUL HAVING YOU HERE AND GREAT TO HAVE YOUR EXPERIENCE.

FATHER GREGORY BOYLE>> LIKEWISE, VAL.

VAL>> THANK YOU.

GENEROSITY AND THE HOLIDAYS GO HAND IN HAND, BUT PATT SAYS GIVERS SHOULD BEWARE SINCE NOT ALL CHARITIES ARE CREATED EQUAL. IT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> BETWEEN THE TAX MAN'S DEADLINE AND THE GENERAL FELLOW FEELING OF THE HOLIDAY SEASON, AMERICANS ARE NOT JUST OPENING GIFTS THIS TIME OF YEAR. THEY'RE OPENING THEIR CHECKBOOKS TO GIVE TO CHARITIES. WITH A LITTLE ENCOURAGEMENT FROM THE ITEMIZED TAX DEDUCTION WE ALL GET, AMERICANS DONATE WELL OVER A BILLION DOLLARS EVERY YEAR TO CHURCHES AND OTHER CHARITIES, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEONE LEAVING COAL IN THE CIVIC STOCKING.

FOUR ORANGE COUNTY MEN WERE ACCUSED OF SETTING UP FAKE CHURCHES AND SHAKING DOWN THE PUBLIC FOR $11 MILLION DOLLARS. FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS, TWO ORANGE COUNTY TELEMARKETERS WERE INDICTED FOR SUPPOSEDLY RAISING $27 MILLION IN THE NAME OF HELPING VETERANS, FIREFIGHTERS AND AIDS PATIENTS, BUT GIVING ONLY ONE MILLION OF THAT TO CHARITY.

SOMETIMES THE LEGITIMATE CAN GO ASTRAY. THE DAUGHTER OF THE WOMAN WHO FOUNDED A MUCH-PRAISED NEW YORK CHILDREN'S CHARITY WAS CONVICTED OF SIPHONING OFF THOUSANDS FOR HER OWN USE. A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE TOYS FOR TOTS FOUNDATION DEFRAUDED THE GROUP OF NEARLY TWO MILLION DOLLARS FOR HIS SECRET HONG KONG BANK ACCOUNTS. THE AMERICAN RED CROSS WAS CRITICIZED FOR DIRECTING SOME SEPTEMBER 11 DONATIONS TO OTHER PURPOSES AND HAS SINCE CHANGED ITS DISASTER FUNDRAISING POLICY.

THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU STANDARD IS THAT SIXTY-FIVE PERCENT OF MONEY RAISED SHOULD GO TO THE CHARITABLE ACTIVITIES, NOT TO AD CAMPAIGNS AND FUNDRAISER SALARIES. BUT SOME HAVE SUCH HIGH OVERHEAD THAT LITTLE MONEY GETS TO THE SUPPOSED BENEFICIARIES. AN L.A.-BASED FOR PROFIT GROUP WHICH BROUGHT IN MILLIONS ORGANIZING WALKS AND RUNS AND BIKE RIDES FOR CHARITY CLOSED ITS DOORS THIS YEAR AFTER COMPLAINTS THAT SOMETIMES AS MUCH AS THREE OF EVERY FOUR DOLLARS RAISED WERE GOING TO MARKETING AND OVERHEAD AND NOT TO THE CAUSE.

YOU HEAR ADS ASKING YOU TO DONATE YOUR CAR. ONLY IN CALIFORNIA WOULD WE BE TALKING ABOUT SPARE CARS. ONE AD PROMISES THAT ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE NET PROCEEDS WILL GO TO THE CHARITY. NOW THAT SOUNDS GOOD, BUT IT'S HOLLYWOOD ACCOUNTING TALK. WHAT ARE THE GROSS PROCEEDS BEFORE EXPENSES? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE GROSS GOES TO THE CHARITY? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENTIAL?

IT'S YOUR JOB TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE LAUDABLE AND THE DUBIOUS AND THAT'S HARD, ESPECIALLY IN A NATION THAT HAS MORE THAN 800,000 FEDERALLY-RECOGNIZED NONPROFITS. HERE ARE SOME WEBSITES THAT MIGHT HELP YOU: THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU WWW.GIVE.ORG, THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHILANTHROPY WWW.CHARITYWATCH.ORG, GUIDE STAR WWW.GUIDESTAR.ORG AND WWW.MINISTRYWATCH.COM. NOW GET OUT THERE AND DO SOME GOOD.

VAL>> ALL THIS WEEK, WE'RE LOOKING AT A NEW DOCUMENTARY CALLED "WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?" IT'S ABOUT THE SPIRITUAL LIVES OF TEENAGERS. AND TONIGHT A STORY THAT MAY RESONATE WITH MANY OF YOU, THE CHALLENGE OF BEING YOUNG AND BEING CATHOLIC. ANTHONY VALDEZ WAS RAISED A STRICT CATHOLIC, BUT HE'S DISCOVERING THAT HIS RELIGION IS OFTEN IN CONFLICT WITH HIS INNERMOST DESIRES.

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ANTHONY VALDEZ>> EVER SINCE I WAS TWO YEARS OLD AND I COULD WALK, MY MOM WAS BRINGING ME AND MY BROTHERS TO CHURCH. EVEN THOUGH WE CRAWLED UNDER THE BENCHES AND WENT THREE PEWS AHEAD, SHE STILL BROUGHT US TO CHURCH. YOU KNOW, SHE REALLY INSTILLED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH INTO US AND, EVER SINCE THEN, I MEAN THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY HAS BEEN A BIG PART OF MY LIFE AND JUST HELPED TO SHAPE ME. I MEAN, I WOULDN'T BE WHO I AM TODAY IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

[FILM CLIP]

ANTHONY VALDEZ>> THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MESSAGES IN THE BIBLE AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIGGEST ONE OF THEM IS, IT MAY SOUND CORNY, BUT LOVE. PEOPLE WERE PUT ON THIS EARTH AS FREE WILL TO DO AS THEY PLEASE AND I THINK GOD WASN'T SATISFIED WITH WHAT HUMANS WERE DOING WITH THEMSELVES AND WITH THE ASSETS AND WHAT WE HAVE ON THIS EARTH BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A LOT. I THINK JESUS CAME TO EARTH AT THAT TIME TO TRY TO REMIND PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THE REAL REASON THAT THEY'RE HERE, TO LOVE EACH OTHER, TO CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER, TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, TO BE A COMMUNITY, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, YOU KNOW, ENFORCES IS COMMUNITY.

I BELIEVE IN GOD AND I BELIEVE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, BUT I'M NOT REALLY STEADY, LIKE I'M ON ROCKY GROUND RIGHT NOW AS FAR AS MY FAITH. GOD ISN'T A PRIORITY IN MY LIFE RIGHT NOW AND IT BOTHERS ME BECAUSE I WAS BROUGHT UP INSTILLED WITH THESE VALUES THAT, YOU KNOW, GOD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR MOM. GOD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR DAD. YOU SHOULD LOVE GOD AND STUFF LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TAUGHT AND THAT'S WHY IT BOTHERS ME SO MUCH THAT NOW HE'S NOT REALLY ALL THAT IMPORTANT IN MY LIFE.

SOMETIMES I FEEL THAT THE ONLY TIMES I DO PRAY IS BECAUSE I'M ASKING GOD FOR SOMETHING. I JUST WISH IT WAS MORE LIKE A REFLECTION KIND OF THING, MORE SPIRITUAL. WHEN I PRAY, I HOPE SOMEBODY'S LISTENING AND I BELIEVE SOMEONE'S LISTENING, BUT I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE. SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE JESUS IS WITH ME AND THEN SOMETIMES I DON'T. I DON'T FEEL AS CLOSE TO GOD RIGHT NOW AS I THINK MAYBE I SHOULD BE. I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE ARE SO MANY TEENAGERS THAT YOU CAN TALK TO THAT WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, I GO TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY AND GOD'S LIKE A HUGE PART OF MY LIFE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE A TEENAGER, YOU'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YOURSELF. YOU'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHO YOU ARE IN THE WORLD AND THEN, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHO GOD IS, THAT'S ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, BIG THING. IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN YOU BECOME A TEENAGER, YOU KIND OF DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM GOD. THEN GIRLS, YOU KNOW, ARE A BIG DISTRACTION. THE CHURCH SAYS SO MANY THINGS THAT CONTRADICT YOUR LIFE, YOU KNOW, AS A TEENAGER, ESPECIALLY SEXUALITY. YOU KNOW, HORMONES RIGHT NOW ARE FULL SPEED AHEAD AND IT'S LIKE THE CHURCH IS TELLING ME TO COOL IT DOWN AND YOU'RE JUST LIKE, HEY, I CAN'T.

IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO TALK TO A PRIEST ABOUT SEX. I TALK TO PRIESTS ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS, BUT SEX IS JUST NOT ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD TALK TO A PRIEST ABOUT. TO BE A PRIEST, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A LOT OF SACRIFICES AND COMMITMENTS. YOU HAVE TO VOW TO CHASTITY. YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO LIVE A LIFE OF POVERTY AND COMMITMENT TO GOD. THOSE ARE SACRIFICES AND COMMITMENTS THAT I CAN'T MAKE. THERE WAS A SHORT PERIOD WHERE I WAS THINKING, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I SHOULD BECOME A PRIEST, BUT IT WAS VERY SHORT. MAYBE A COUPLE OF DAYS, BUT I DROPPED IT.

I THINK THE CHURCH IS REALLY OUTDATED ON THEIR STANCES. THE CHURCH IS THERE TO REPRESENT GOD AND WHAT HE CAME ON THIS EARTH TO SAY. GOD TELLS US THAT YOU SHOULD LOVE EACH OTHER AND HE SPOKE THROUGH JESUS AND THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE, BUT THEN WHERE DOES THE CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME IN AND SAY THIS IS HOW GOD FEELS? NO ONE KNOWS HOW GOD FEELS. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE CHURCH ON PREMARITAL SEX. AS LONG AS IT'S NOT TOO CASUAL, I BELIEVE IN PREMARITAL SEX. I ALSO DON'T AGREE WITH THE CHURCH ON ABORTION.

YOU CAN'T TELL SOMEONE HOW TO BELIEVE IN GOD. YOU CAN'T TELL SOMEONE HOW TO PRAY. IT'S UP TO THAT INDIVIDUAL TO OPEN UP THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. WHILE JESUS WAS WALKING AROUND AND HELPING OUT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, HE TALKED TO THE PROSTITUTES, CARED FOR THE HOMELESS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. I THINK REALLY THOSE ARE THE VALUES I HAVE. WE'RE TAUGHT TO SEE GOD IN EVERYBODY. IT'S NOT JUST THAT WE'RE TAUGHT. IT'S WHAT I BELIEVE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO SEE JESUS IN EACH OTHER. YOU KNOW, THE GIVING, THE CARING.

EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN QUESTIONING MY SPIRITUALITY FOR A LONG TIME, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH THE CHURCH, I STILL WANT TO BE A CATHOLIC BECAUSE I STILL BELIEVE IN GOD AND I STILL BELIEVE IN JESUS AND I STILL HAVE FAITH AND I WANT TO BE A PART OF THE CHURCH. I MEAN, WE WERE TAUGHT THAT THERE'S A HEAVEN, SO I FEEL -- I HOPE -- I'M GOING TO HEAVEN. BUT IF I DO SOMETHING IN MY LIFE THAT SATISFIES ME, THAT I'M PROUD OF, AND IF I DON'T GO TO HEAVEN, I DON'T GO TO HEAVEN. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? I CAN SAY I'M PROUD OF MYSELF AND I LED A GOOD LIFE AND I HELPED OTHERS OR WHATEVER I DID.

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