4/8/03

LC030408

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> THE LAPD LAUNCHES A NEW HIGH-TECH CRIME-TRACKING TOOL, BUT WILL THE CITY’S MOST TROUBLED NEIGHBORHOODS NOTICE A DIFFERENCE?

ALEJANDRO ALONZO>> I’VE BEEN RESEARCHING CRIME AND GANGS FOR OVER A DECADE NOW AND I SAW THIS ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO. A LOT OF ATTENTION, A LOT OF IDEAS, A LOT OF PROGRAMS, A LOT OF MONEY FED INTO THESE DIFFERENT PLANS AND HERE WE ARE TEN YEARS LATER AND WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME EXACT THING.

VAL>> AND THEN EXPLODING THE MYTHS SURROUNDING ONE OF AMERICA’S MOST ENDURING COMICS, W. C. FIELDS. A NEW BOOK REVEALS THE MAN BEHIND THE BUMBLING CHARACTER ON THE MOVIE SCREEN.

JESS>> PLUS, DEALING WITH THE WAR CRIMINALS OF IRAQ. A LEADING RABBI SAYS PUT THEM ON TRIAL JUST LIKE THE NAZIS.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> IT WORKED IN THE BIG APPLE, BUT WILL IT WORK HERE?

JESS>> TONIGHT A LOOK AT CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON’S NEW SYSTEM FOR TRACKING CRIME IN LOS ANGELES. IT’S A COMPUTER TOOL THAT BRATTON PIONEERED WHILE HE WAS COMMISSIONER OF NEW YORK’S POLICE DEPARTMENT. HE BELIEVES IT WILL PUT A MAJOR DENT IN THE GANG VIOLENCE THAT HAS MADE LOS ANGELES AMERICA’S MURDER CAPITOL. AND AS TONI GUINYARD REPORTS, THE CITY’S MOST TROUBLED NEIGHBORHOODS HOPE THE CHIEF IS RIGHT.

TONI GUINYARD>> JUST MINUTES AFTER A RESIDENT FLAGS DOWN POLICE TO REPORT A ROBBERY, LAPD BLACK AND WHITES SEEMED TO APPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE. OFFICERS DRAW THEIR GUNS AND TRAIN THEIR ATTENTION ON MEN SITTING INSIDE A CAR IN THIS GROCERY STORY PARKING LOT. THE QUICK RESPONSE AND DEPLOYMENT, POLICE SAY, ILLUSTRATES THE CENTERPIECE OF THE LAPD’S COMPSTAT, OR COMPUTER STATISTICS CRIME-FIGHTING PLAN. BASED ON TRENDS OF WHERE CRIMES OCCUR MOST OFTEN, POLICE ARE ALREADY IN THE AREA AND, IN THIS CASE, THEY’RE ALERTED TO A PROBLEM BY A RESIDENT.

JIM MCDONNELL>> IN A CITY WITH NINE THOUSAND COPS POLICING A POPULATION OF FOUR MILLION OVER 470 SQUARE MILES, IT’S NOT GOING TO DO IT WITHOUT THE COMMUNITY. WE NEED THE COMMUNITY TO WORK WITH US TO BE PART OF WHAT WE DO AND, IF WE DON’T DO THAT, NONE OF US ARE GOING TO SUCCEED.

TONI GUINYARD>> ASSISTANT CHIEF, JIM MCDONNELL, HEADS THE LAPD’S COMPSTAT OPERATIONS. HE SAYS COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT IS CRITICAL BECAUSE, WHILE THE CRIME STATISTICS CAN BE TRACKED, MAPPED AND ANALYZED TO DETERMINE WHEN AND WHERE POLICE SHOULD BE DEPLOYED IN THE CITY, THE DEPARTMENT STILL NEEDS HELP.

JIM MCDONNELL>> WE CAN TALK ABOUT CRIME PREVENTION ALL DAY, BUT IF WE’RE NOT ENGAGED WITH THE COMMUNITY, IF THE COMMUNITY IS NOT WORKING WITH US TO BE ABLE TO POINT OUT WHO’S DOING WHAT IN THE COMMUNITY, WE’RE IN AND WE’RE OUT. WE RESPOND TO CALLS. WE’RE OUT THERE AS PROACTIVELY AS WE CAN, BUT THERE’S TOO FEW OF US TO BE ABLE TO KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON IN EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD.

TONI GUINYARD>> IF RESIDENTS ARE EXPECTED TO BE THE EXTRA EYES AND EARS FOR POLICE, THEY SAY THE DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THEIR CRITICISM AS WELL. THEY GOT SOME FROM RESIDENTS WHO WATCHED THE POLICE RESPOND TO THE ALLEGED ROBBERY. IT TURNS OUT THAT THE MEN BELIEVED TO BE SUSPECTS WERE NOT.

CHARLES WHITE>> THEY HAD THEIR GUNS DRAWN. NOW IF THEY HAD STARTED FIRING, BULLETS ARE GOING TO RICOCHET HERE AND THERE. YOU DON’T KNOW WHERE THEY’RE GOING. I APPRECIATE WHAT THEY’RE DOING AS FAR AS RESPONSE TIME AND CLEANING UP THE AREA, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU GOT TO LOOK OUT FOR THE INNOCENT PEOPLE.

TONI GUINYARD>> FROM ONE END OF THE CITY TO ANOTHER, DIFFERENT PEOPLE, DIFFERENT CRIME ISSUES, DIFFERENT CONCERNS.

>> THERE ARE MANY THINGS ABOUT THE LAPD WE DON’T KNOW AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT THE LAPD DOESN’T KNOW.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE COMMENT REFLECTS THE REALIZATION THAT THE LAPD NEEDS THE PUBLIC AS MUCH AS THE PUBLIC NEEDS THE POLICE. MEMBERS OF THE ASIAN-PACIFIC ISLANDER ADVISORY COMMITTEE MAKE IT CLEAR TO LAPD BRASS THAT THE DIVERSE GROUPS THAT CALL LOS ANGELES HOME HAVE SPECIFIC NEEDS AND CONCERNS. DESPITE RELATIVELY LOW CRIME STATISTICS IN THE CHINATOWN BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT BUSINESS, THE FIVE HUNDRED OR SO BUSINESS OWNERS ARE RELYING ON COMPSTAT TO BE A SUCCESS.

GEORGE YU>> WE HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN THE CHIEF AND THE DEPARTMENT. YOU KNOW, IF HE BRINGS IT, IT WILL WORK BECAUSE THE PEOPLE ON THE STREETS, HIS OFFICERS, DEFINITELY BELIEVE IN THIS PROGRAM.

TONI GUINYARD>> A PROGRAM WITH ITS SHARE OF DETRACTORS. ALEJANDRO ALONZO IS ONE OF THEM.

ALEJANDRO ALONZO>> I’VE BEEN HERE FOR ABOUT FORTY YEARS.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE PHD CANDIDATE IN GEOGRAPHY HAS SPENT THE LAST TEN YEARS STUDYING GANGS IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY, IN THE PROCESS BECOMING SOMEWHAT OF AN EXPERT ON WHERE GANG MEMBERS COME AND GO AND THE CONFLICT AND CRIMES THAT FOLLOW.

ALEJANDRO ALONZO>> IF CRIME GOES DOWN IN LOS ANGELES, OF COURSE, THEY’RE GOING TO SAY, OH, COMPSTAT WAS JUST THE GREATEST THING THAT WE’VE EVER COME UP WITH, BUT THEY'RE MISSING WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER FACTORS.

TONI GUINYARD>> HE IS CRITICAL OF A COMPONENT OF COMPSTAT THAT HAS POLICE AND THE RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY WORKING HAND IN HAND.

ALEJANDRO ALONZO>> THE CHURCH, YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY HAS BEEN A BIG PLAYER IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, BUT THERE’S A BIG DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE CHURCH AND WHAT’S GOING ON IN THE STREETS.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE ANSWER TO LOS ANGELES’S CRIME PROBLEM, HE SAYS, IS WORKING WITH GANG MEMBERS.

ALEJANDRO ALONZO>> NOT ALL ORIGINAL GANGSTERS ARE ABOUT PEACE AND TRYING TO FIX THE PROBLEM WITHIN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT YOU WILL FIND MANY OF THEM THAT ARE DILIGENTLY WORKING ON A DAY-BY-DAY BASIS THAT WANT TO BRING PEACE TO THEIR COMMUNITY, AND I DON’T BELIEVE THAT THEY’RE BEING USED THE WAY THEY COULD BE.

JIM MCDONNELL>> WE DO WORK WITH FORMER GANG MEMBERS. WE WORK WITH ANYBODY REALLY WHO’LL WORK WITH US. THE CHURCH IS ONE VEHICLE, WE’VE GOTTEN A LOT OF MEDIA ATTENTION OVER THE CHURCH. BUT ANYWHERE WE GET A FORUM TO BE ABLE TO GO OUT AND TALK TO PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT THE VISION IS AND WHERE WE’RE TRYING TO GO AND BASICALLY LET THEM KNOW THAT THIS IS YOUR CITY, STAND UP, DON’T TOLERATE GANG VIOLENCE.

TONI GUINYARD>> AND THAT, ACCORDING TO LORNA HAWKINS, IS THE KEY. SHE LOST TWO SONS TO VIOLENCE. GERALD WAS KILLED IN A 1988 DRIVE-BY SHOOTING. FOUR YEARS LATER, JOE WAS KILLED DURING AN ATTEMPTED CARJACKING.

LORNA HAWKINS>> SEE, A BULLET REALLY DOESN’T HAVE A NAME. A PERSON COULD HAVE AN ARGUMENT OUTSIDE OF THEIR PLACE IN THEIR NICE LITTLE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE BULLET FLIES THROUGH MANY PLACES JUST TO GET WHERE IT’S GOING AND IT COULD BE YOU.

TONI GUINYARD>> SHE FINDS PEACE WORKING AGAINST CRIME AND IS WILLING TO GIVE THE LAPD’S NEW CRIME-FIGHTING PROGRAM A CHANCE, AT LEAST FOR NOW.

LORNA HAWKINS>> WHY NOT JOIN THEM AND MAKE THEM WORK FOR YOU THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO WORK FOR YOU?

JESS>> FIVE YEARS AGO, PHILADELPHIA ADOPTED THE SAME COMPSTAT PROGRAM THAT’S JUST NOW BEING INITIATED IN LOS ANGELES. POLICE IN PHILADELPHIA SAY THE TRACKING SYSTEM HELPED THEM MAKE BETTER USE OF THEIR RESOURCES AND MANPOWER AND THEY CLAIM THE RESULT WAS A SIGNIFICANT DROP IN VIOLENT CRIME.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, CLEANING UP A TOXIC MESS AT THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES AND IT ALL BEGAN WITH ONE MAN’S PERSONAL CRUSADE.

>> WE REALIZE THAT WE’RE IN THE MIDST OF A HUGE PLACE THAT EVERYTHING IS POWERED BY DIESEL EXHAUST AND THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TRUCKS AND SHIPS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO WE GOT QUITE FRIGHTENED AND WE WENT TO THE PORT AND WE SAID, GEE, IT SAYS HERE THAT THIS STUFF CAUSES CANCER, YOU KNOW. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF LAST NIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES "WHAT DO YOU THINK?" POLL. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG TO WEIGH IN ON A NEW QUESTION TOMORROW.

JESS>> THE PRESIDENT SAYS THE WAR WITH IRAQ IS STILL FAR FROM OVER, BUT A FEW PEOPLE HAVE BEGUN LOOKING AHEAD TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT AFTER THE FIGHTING IS OVER. THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT TRIBUNALS FOR THE WAR CRIMINALS OF IRAQ. SOME OF THE CRIMES INCLUDE ABUSING AMERICAN PRISONERS OF WAR AND PUTTING THEM ON DISPLAY LIKE PRIZE TROPHIES. SOME SAY THE OFFENDERS SHOULD BE TRIED JUST AS THE NAZIS WERE AFTER WORLD WAR TWO.

VAL>> IN FACT, OUR NEXT GUEST HAS SOME SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO MODEL THE COURT AFTER THE FAMOUS NUREMBERG TRIALS. JOINING US NOW IS RABBI MARVIN HIER. HE IS FOUNDER AND DEAN OF THE SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

RABBI MARVIN HIER>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> RABBI, YOUR PROPOSAL WOULD HAVE THEM TRIED IN IRAQ.

RABBI MARVIN HIER>> THAT'S CORRECT.

JESS>> WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT?

RABBI MARVIN HIER>> BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT WOULD HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON THE IRAQI PEOPLE. THEY WOULD SEE FOR THEMSELVES THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WITNESSES THAT WOULD BE BROUGHT FORTH, THE DOCUMENTS, AND THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO TRAVEL TO A DISTANT COUNTRY. IF WE HAD IT IN THE UNITED STATES OR IN ENGLAND, WE WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON AMERICA AND ON PERHAPS THE BRITISH PEOPLE.

BUT THE IMPACT THAT THE COALITION IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE IS ON THE IRAQI PEOPLE AND WE SHOULD, THEREFORE, HAVE THE TRIAL IN BAGHDAD IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE WORLD WAR ALLIES. THEY ALSO WENT THROUGH ALL OF THESE ISSUES. THEY SAID AT THE END WHERE SHOULD WE PUT HITLER AND THE LEADERS OF THE THIRD REICH ON TRIAL? SHOULD IT BE IN MOSCOW? SHOULD IT BE IN WASHINGTON? IN LONDON? THEY DECIDED ON GERMANY ITSELF IN ORDER TO --

JESS>> -- SO NUREMBERG IS THE MODEL?

RABBI MARVIN HIER>> THAT'S CORRECT. I THINK THAT NUREMBERG IS THE PERFECT MODEL BECAUSE OF THE FACT, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THE WORLD WAR TWO ALLIES HAD THE ISSUE SHOULD IT BE LIMITED TO THE UNITED STATES, ENGLAND, FRANCE AND THE SOVIET UNION OR SHOULD WE INCLUDE OTHER NATIONS? THEY SAID THAT ONLY THOSE THAT FOUGHT TO DEFEAT THE NAZIS SHOULD GET TO TRY THEM. THAT WAS THE MODEL OF NUREMBERG.

VAL>> BUT WE NOW HAVE A NEW MODEL. WE HAVE THE INTERNATIONAL COURT AT THE HAGUE AND THEY'VE BEEN TRYING WAR CRIMINALS FROM THE BALKANS AND SO FORTH FAIRLY SUCCESSFULLY. ISN'T THIS A JOB FOR THE HAGUE?

RABBI MARVIN HIER>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE AT THE HAGUE IS MADE UP OF VARIOUS EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL. TWELVE YEARS' RESOLUTIONS WHERE THE UNITED NATIONS COULDN'T GET SADDAM HUSSEIN TO LISTEN TO ITS OWN RESOLUTIONS. ANY WAR CRIMES TRIAL IN THE HAGUE OR ANY UNITED NATIONS-SPONSORED TRIAL WOULD RUN INTO THAT SIMILAR, YOU KNOW, BLOCK WHEREBY INSTEAD OF TRYING THE WAR CRIMINALS, WE'D HAVE INTERNAL SQUABBLING AND POLITICS GOING ON. YOU MIGHT HAVE A TRIAL THAT WOULD LAST TEN YEARS AND THAT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE THING.

THAT'S WHY, AT THE END OF WORLD WAR TWO, THEY DID NOT BROADEN IT TO HAVE THIRTY NATIONS SIT IN TRIAL OF THE NAZI WAR CRIMINALS. I THINK IT WAS VERY WISE. THE WAR ENDED IN MAY, THE NUREMBERG TRIALS BEGAN IN NOVEMBER, SIX MONTHS LATER. THE PROSECUTING TEAM AND DEFENSE TEAM HAD ENOUGH TIME TO MAKE THEIR CASE AND THEY GOT ON WITH THE BUSINESS OF THE TRIAL AND THE CRIMINALS WERE PUNISHED. THE NUREMBERG TRIALS WERE REALLY THE PLANTING SEEDS FOR DEMOCRACY IN GERMANY. WITHOUT THOSE TRIALS HELD IN GERMANY, I DON'T KNOW IF DEMOCRACY WOULD HAVE TAKEN HOLD THAT FAST.

JESS>> ONE OF THE ISSUES BEING DEBATED TODAY, AND IT HAS BEEN FOR SOME DAYS NOW, IS HOW DO WE REBUILD THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ? DOES THE UNITED NATIONS DO IT? DO WE DO IT? DO WE AND BRITAIN DO IT? WHAT'S YOUR THINKING ON THAT?

RABBI MARVIN HIER>> WELL, I THINK THAT, AGAIN, THE WORLD WAR TWO MODEL IS A VERY GOOD MODEL TO FOLLOW. WE HAD FOUR PRINCIPAL COUNTRIES THAT DIVIDED GERMANY AT THE TIME. THEY HAD INTERIM CONTROL. OF COURSE, THAT WAS A HUGE PROBLEM. THE SECOND WORLD WAR WAS DIFFERENT FROM IRAQ. THE IRAQI PEOPLE ARE PRINCIPALLY INTACT. IT'S A LEADERSHIP THAT THE COALITION IS GOING AFTER. THE CITIES WERE NOT NEARLY AS DECIMATED AS WAS GERMANY AT THE END OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

BUT I BELIEVE THAT AN INTERIM GOVERNMENT SET UP BY THE COALITION WITH UNITED NATIONS INVOLVEMENT ON THE HUMANITARIAN SIDE AND THEN, AFTER TWO YEARS OR SO, THE COALITION WITHDRAWS AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE GET TO CHOOSE THEIR OWN LEADERS AND RUN THE AFFAIRS OF THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT AS THEY SHOULD.

JESS>> AS WE'VE PROMISED.

VAL>> YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT. IT IS THE OPEN WOUND. ONCE THE IRAQ WAR IS OVER, THE PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI CONFLICT IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE STILL THE MOST DANGEROUS CONFLICT IN THE AREA. JUST TODAY, I UNDERSTAND, ISRAEL MADE ITS FIRST AIR STRIKE INTO PALESTINIAN TERRITORY AND FIVE PEOPLE WERE DEAD AND FIFTY OTHERS WOUNDED. ARE --

JESS>> -- FIRST AIR STRIKE SINCE THE WAR IN IRAQ.

VAL>> SINCE THE WAR. EXCUSE ME, SINCE THE WAR IN IRAQ. AREN'T THERE SOME WAR CRIMINALS HERE TO BE PROSECUTED AS WELL?

RABBI MARVIN HIER>> YOU MEAN IN THE ISRAELI-ARAB CONFLICT? LET ME SAY QUITE CANDIDLY THAT THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO. ISRAEL IS A DEMOCRACY IF YOU REFER TO IT ON THE ISRAELI SIDE. ISRAEL IS A DEMOCRACY. THE GREATEST CRITICISM AGAINST THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT DOESN'T COME FROM THE ARAB WORLD. IT COMES FROM THE ISRAELIS THEMSELVES, THE OPPOSITION PARTIES, THE NEWSPAPERS. IN THE ARAB WORLD, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS DEMOCRACY. IT'S DICTATORSHIP.

THE POINT IS, YES, THIS IS A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY FOR A NEW IMPETUS TO THE ROADMAP AND TO PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST PROVIDING TERRORISM IS STAMPED OUT. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH SADDAM HUSSEIN IN IRAQ WAS THAT, FOR TWELVE YEARS, THE UNITED NATIONS JUST PRETENDED, THAT WE WILL WISH EVIL TO GO AWAY. YOU CAN'T WISH EVIL TO GO AWAY. IT DOESN'T GO AWAY UNLESS SOMEBODY STANDS UP AND SAYS I'LL HELP IT GO AWAY LIKE THE UNITED STATES AND GREAT BRITAIN ARE DOING NOW.

IF THE NEW PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP, THE NEW PRIME MINISTER -- ARAFAT IS TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE. THE SOONER HE IS GONE FROM THE SCENE, THE GREATER THE CHANCES OF PEACE -- BUT IF THE NEW PRIME MINISTER SAYS TO THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, LOOK, I'M GOING TO REALLY TAKE A TOUGH HAND WITH HAMAS AND ISLAMIC JIHAD. I THINK THAT HE WILL FIND ISRAEL MEETING HIM HALFWAY AND SAYING WE'LL END THE SETTLEMENT ACTIVITY. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET PEACE STARTED.

THIS IS THE GREAT OPPORTUNITY NOW BECAUSE SADDAM HUSSEIN, THE PERSON THAT GIVES $25,000 FOR EVERY SUICIDE BOMBER, IS GONE AND ALL THE RADICALS IN THE MIDDLE EAST ARE WONDERING WHETHER THEY'RE NEXT. SO THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE MODERATES TO TAKE CHARGE OF THEIR LIVES IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND HOPEFULLY A BREAKTHROUGH ON THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT.

VAL>> WELL, I THINK EVERYONE AGREES THAT WE'D ALL BE BETTER OFF IF THERE WERE SOME MODERATES IN CHARGE. THANK YOU, RABBI MARVIN HIER FROM THE SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER, FOR YOUR VIEWS.

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JESS>> NEWS OF THE WAR MAY DOMINATE THE HEADLINES, BUT PATT SAYS THERE IS CAUSE TO CHUCKLE ABOUT ANOTHER WAR, AND THAT'S CALIFORNIA'S BATTLE WITH BIG TOBACCO. THAT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> THESE ARE DIFFICULT TIMES INDEED AND WE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR ANY CHANCE TO LAUGH. TODAY'S LAUGH -- TRUE STORY -- COMES COURTESY OF BIG TOBACCO. TWO LEADING CIGARETTE COMPANIES HAVE RUN CRYING TO FEDERAL COURT COMPLAINING THAT CALIFORNIA IS BEING MEAN TO THEM, "NASTY, LOW AND PERSONAL". THEY WANT THE NICE JUDGE TO TELL CALIFORNIA NOT TO RUN THOSE HORRID ADS ANY LONGER, THE ONES THAT MAKE THEM CRY. THEY SAY CALIFORNIA IS RIDING ROUGHSHOD OVER THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, USING MONEY THEY HAD TO PUT INTO ANTI-SMOKING CAMPAIGNS TO MAKE THEM THE BAD GUYS AND POISON THE MINDS OF POTENTIAL JURORS.

POISON THE MINDS OF JURORS? THIS FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN POISONING BODIES OF SMOKERS SINCE LONG BEFORE ANY WARNING ABOUT IT? WHO HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF DOCTORING THEIR RECIPES TO MAKE TOBACCO EVEN MORE ADDICTIVE? AND WHOSE EXECUTIVES ONCE SWORE TO CONGRESS THAT NICOTINE DOESN'T GET YOU HOOKED AND DOESN'T CAUSE LUNG CANCER OR EMPHYSEMA OR HEART DISEASE?

YOU'VE SEEN THE ADS FOR YEARS. TOBACCO COMPANY EXECS SNIGGERING AT SMOKERS DUMB ENOUGH TO FALL FOR THEIR LIES, LYING TO CONGRESS AND THE PRESS AND A BOX BEARING A PARODY OF THE LABEL ON A PACK OF SMOKES READING "WARNING: SOME PEOPLE WILL SAY ANYTHING TO SELL CIGARETTES". AND THE UNFORGETTABLE BILLBOARD PARODYING THE MARLBORO MAN SMOKING A LIMP CIGARETTE AND ONE WORD: IMPOTENT. ONE AD POINTED OUT THAT EVEN AS CIGARETTE MAKERS DENY SMOKING IS HARMFUL, TWO TOBACCO CONGLOMERATES THAT OWN INSURANCE COMPANIES GAVE INSURANCE DISCOUNTS TO NONSMOKERS.

NOW CIGARETTE COMPANIES HAVE SPENT MORE THAN A MILLION DOLLARS A DAY ON ADS IN CALIFORNIA COMPARED TO THE STATE'S FIFTY THOUSAND FOR ANTI-SMOKING ADS, BUT CIGARETTE MAKERS INSIST CALIFORNIA IS A BIG OLD BULLY AND THEY'RE A 98-POUND WEAKLING WHO CAN'T FIGHT BACK. WHAT REALLY HURTS THEM ISN'T THE WORDS. IT'S THAT THEY WORK. ONLY ABOUT SIXTEEN PERCENT OF CALIFORNIANS SMOKE, DOWN FROM TWENTY-TWO PERCENT BEFORE THE ADS BEGAN RUNNING IN THE LATE 1980'S.

IN 1998, THE WILSON ADMINISTRATION KEPT SOME ADS OFF THE AIR AND WATERED OTHERS DOWN, BANNING WORDS LIKE "LIES" AND "PROFITS" FOR FEAR THEY'D BE BAD FOR CALIFORNIA'S BUSINESS IMAGE. GRAY DAVIS RESTORED THE ADS AND DAVIS, IN AN UNCHARACTERISTIC BURST OF PERSONALITY, DECLARED "IF BIG TOBACCO WANTS A FIGHT, I SAY BRING IT ON." PERSONALLY, I THINK THE TOBACCO COMPANY LAWYERS SHOULD BAIL OUT OF THE LINE OF LEGAL WORK THAT THEY'VE PURSUED. IF THIS LAWSUIT IS ANYTHING TO GO BY, THEY'VE GOT A GREAT FUTURE IN COMEDY WRITING.

VAL>> HE WAS BORN WILLIAM CLAUDE DUKENFIELD, BUT WE KNOW HIM BY HIS STAGE NAME OF W. C. FIELDS. HE GOT INTO SHOW BUSINESS BY LEARNING HOW TO JUGGLE. THAT ACT LANDED HIM ON THE VAUDEVILLE CIRCUIT AND, WITH THAT, W. C. FIELDS WAS ON HIS WAY TO BECOMING A STAR.

JESS>> HIS TRADEMARK CHARACTER WAS A CYNICAL DRUNKARD WHO HATED KIDS, BUT A NEW BIOGRAPHY DISPELS SOME OF THE MYTHS ABOUT THE CLASSIC COMEDIAN. IT'S CALLED "W. C. FIELDS: A BIOGRAPHY". IN A MOMENT, WE'LL MEET THE AUTHOR, JAMES CURTIS, BUT FIRST HERE'S A BIT OF W. C. FIELDS IN ACTION. THE FILM IS "MY LITTLE CHICKADEE".

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW, THE GREAT COMEDIAN'S BIOGRAPHER, JAMES CURTIS. THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

JAMES CURTIS>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> AND THE MYTHS ABOUT W. C. FIELDS? WHAT ARE THE MYTHS THAT WERE DISPELLED?

JAMES CURTIS>> WELL, ONE OF THEM THAT I ESSENTIALLY WROTE THE BOOK ABOUT WAS THAT HE WAS DEAD DRUNK DURING THE MAKING OF HIS FILMS.

JESS>> MAYBE NOT, BUT HE DIED A DRUNKARD, DID HE NOT?

JAMES CURTIS>> HE DIED OF CIRRHOSIS, THAT'S CORRECT, BUT THE BODY OF WORK WAS WAY TOO CONSISTENT FOR HIM TO HAVE NOT BEEN INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE MAKING OF HIS FILMS. HE WAS TERRIBLY INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF HIS MATERIAL AND ALSO THE STAGING OF HIS MATERIAL.

JESS>> HE WROTE MOST OF IT, DIDN'T HE?

JAMES CURTIS>> YEAH, HE DID. HE DID A LOT OF IT.

VAL>> DID HE ACTUALLY DIRECT THE FILMS?

JAMES CURTIS>> HE STAGED THE SCENES THAT HE WAS IN, SO HE WOULD WORK WITH THE ACTORS. THE BEST DIRECTORS WERE THE ONES THAT LEFT HIM ALONE.

VAL>> SO HOW DID THE DRINKING COME IN? BETWEEN MOVIES OR AFTER HOURS OR --

JAMES CURTIS>> -- WELL, FOR THE FIRST THIRTY-FIVE YEARS OF HIS LIFE, HE HAD TO EARN A LIVING AS A JUGGLER, SO HE COULDN'T AFFORD TO DRINK (LAUGHTER). AFTER HE WENT WITH THE ZIEGFELD FOLLIES IN 1915, HE DIDN'T HAVE TO DEPEND ON JUGGLING FOR A LIVELIHOOD AND HE FOUND THAT HE HAD A TREMENDOUS CAPACITY FOR LIQUOR.

BUT ALSO IT HELPED HIM OVERCOME STAGE FRIGHT BECAUSE HE WAS WHAT WAS REFERRED TO AT THE TIME A DUMB ACT BEFORE THAT. HE DIDN'T SPEAK ON STAGE. THAT WAS IN PART DUE TO A STUTTER. WHEN HE BEGAN WORKING WITH ZIEGFELD, HE WAS REQUIRED NOT ONLY TO SPEAK LINES, BUT SING OCCASIONALLY, SO HE WOULD HAVE A DRINK IN ORDER TO CALM DOWN, I THINK, AND GET THE LINES OUT. OVER TIME, HE FELT THAT THAT FUELED HIS CREATIVITY, SO HE ALWAYS HAD A GLOW ON.

JESS>> ONE MORE MYTH. DID HE REALLY HATE KIDS?

JAMES CURTIS>> NOT REALLY. FROM WHAT I'VE FOUND OUT, AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE ARE LOTS OF STORIES OF GENEROSITY TOWARD KIDS. IN FACT, HE LEFT A SIZABLE PORTION OF HIS ESTATE TO KIDS IN THE FORM OF AN ORPHANS HOME.

VAL>> AND HE WAS ESPECIALLY KIND TO A YOUNG GIRL THAT, I THINK, HE WORKED WITH. AN ACTRESS, I UNDERSTAND?

JAMES CURTIS>> GLORIA JEAN, WHO WAS IN HIS LAST FILM. I THINK THAT EVERYBODY WHO WORKED WITH HIM LOVED HIM. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T LIKE HIM WERE THE EXECUTIVES, ANY KIND OF AUTHORITY FIGURE.

VAL>> WHY DIDN'T THEY LIKE HIM?

JAMES CURTIS>> BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LIKE THEM (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) WE'LL ALL REMEMBER HIM MOSTLY FROM THE CHARACTER HE PORTRAYED IN THAT OPENING CLIP, BUT HE WAS MUCH BROADER THAN THAT, WAS HE NOT?

JAMES CURTIS>> ABSOLUTELY. HE WAS PROBABLY THE BEST ACTOR POSSIBLE TO PLAY W. C. FIELDS. HE INVENTED THAT CHARACTER OVER THE SPACE OF FIFTEEN YEARS. HE HAD ESSENTIALLY TWO PERSONAS. THAT ONE THAT WE SAW, WHICH IS A PERIOD CHARACTER, AND THEN THE TORMENTED FAMILY MAN IN A DYSFUNCTIONAL HOUSEHOLD, WHICH WAS USUALLY WHAT HE WAS DOING IN THE MODERN DRESS FILMS. YOU REMEMBER, HE ALSO PLAYED MICAWBER IN "DAVID COPPERFIELD" AND HE WAS ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT IN IT.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. ANOTHER MYTH WAS THAT HE WAS A TIGHTWAD.

JAMES CURTIS>> NO, HE WAS ALWAYS ON THE LOOKOUT FOR A SCAM OF SOME SORT BECAUSE HE SPENT HIS EARLY YEARS AS A PETTY THIEF HIMSELF, AMONG OTHER THINGS, AND SO --

VAL>> -- I'M SORRY. HE WAS A THIEF?

JAMES CURTIS>> AS A KID, YES.

JESS>> SOMEBODY SAID HE HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN JUGGLING AND BEING A THIEF AND HE CHOSE JUGGLING (LAUGHTER).

JAMES CURTIS>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S TRUE.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) BOTH VERY DEXTEROUS.

JAMES CURTIS>> THAT'S TRUE, THAT'S TRUE. WELL, THAT'S HOW HE WAS ABLE TO AVAIL HIMSELF OF A FIVE-FINGER DISCOUNT WHEN HE WENT INTO A BAKERY OR SOMETHING (LAUGHTER) BUT AS TIME WENT ALONG, I THINK THAT HE WAS ESPECIALLY CONSCIOUS OF HIS WEALTH AND THE FACT THAT HE COULD HELP PEOPLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE DID NOT WISH IT PUBLICIZED BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO BECOME A MAGNET FOR PEOPLE THAT WERE ON THE --

VAL>> -- I UNDERSTAND HE WAS ACTUALLY A SOFT TOUCH WHEN PEOPLE NEEDED --

JAMES CURTIS>> -- HE WAS, HE WAS.

JESS>> AND HE WAS NOT A MISANTHROPE?

JAMES CURTIS>> NO. FIELDS WAS NOT A HATEFUL MAN. HE HAD THAT -- I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE RESPONDED TO THE IDEA OF W. C. FIELDS. THEY LIKED THE IDEA OF SOMEONE WHO IS AS DISAGREEABLE AND AS DRUNK AS HE WAS SUPPOSEDLY SUPPOSED TO BE. BUT IN REALITY, NO, HE WAS A VERY QUIET, SOFT-SPOKEN GENTLEMAN IN REAL LIFE AND ALSO EXTREMELY WELL-READ AND LEARNED.

VAL>> HE HAD AN INTERESTING RELATIONSHIP -- HE KNEW, OF COURSE, TREMENDOUS STARS LIKE CHARLIE CHAPLIN, MAE WEST, ALL THOSE IN THAT ERA, BUT I GUESS HE HAD A SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JOHN BARRYMORE, I UNDERSTAND?

JAMES CURTIS>> WELL, BARRYMORE AND HE, I THINK, HAD MUTUAL FRIENDS. THEY WERE DRINKING BUDDIES. HE ALSO HAD A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR BARRYMORE. FIELDS DIDN'T CARE FOR ACTORS, FOR THE MOST PART, BECAUSE HE COULDN'T ABIDE THEIR EGOS. THE THING HE LIKED ABOUT BARRYMORE IS THAT HE FELT THAT BARRYMORE HAD NO EGO WHATSOEVER, AT LEAST NONE THAT HE EVER SAW.

VAL>> AND I UNDERSTAND, WHEN BARRYMORE PASSED AWAY, W. C. FIELDS WAS ASKED TO BE A PALLBEARER?

JAMES CURTIS>> HE SAID HE'D BE A PALLBEARER IF HE COULD BE AT THE BACK AND BE THE TAILLIGHT, REFERRING TO HIS NOSE (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> IN RESEARCHING THIS BOOK, ARE THERE DESCENDANTS OR RELATIVES OR DID YOU HAVE TO STICK WITH HOLLYWOOD TO FIND OUT ABOUT W. C. FIELDS?

JAMES CURTIS>> THERE IS A FAMILY OF FIVE GRANDCHILDREN AND THEY WERE ALL EXTREMELY HELPFUL IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THIS BOOK. THEY'VE RETAINED HIS PAPERS, HIS SCRAPBOOKS DATING BACK TO 1898 AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF NEW MATERIAL TO MINE.

VAL>> ANOTHER MYTH WAS, I GUESS, WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ON HIS TOMBSTONE, I UNDERSTAND, BUT NOT REALLY --

JAMES CURTIS>> -- "ON THE WHOLE, I'D RATHER BE IN PHILADELPHIA".

VAL>> "ON THE WHOLE, I'D RATHER BE IN PHILADELPHIA", WHICH IS A FAMOUS LINE FROM A MOVIE?

JAMES CURTIS>> WELL, ACTUALLY, NO. IT WAS FROM VANITY FAIR MAGAZINE. A GROUP OF CELEBRITIES WERE ASKED TO WRITE THEIR OWN EPITAPHS IN 1924 AND THAT WAS ONE OF THEM.

JESS>> AND HE WAS NEITHER BORN IN PHILADELPHIA NOR BURIED IN PHILADELPHIA?

JAMES CURTIS>> NO. HE WAS BORN IN DARBY, WHICH IS IN THE NEXT COUNTY OVER, AND HE'S BURIED IN GLENDALE.

VAL>> BUT HE TOLD THE MAGAZINE THAT THIS WOULD BE HIS EPITAPH, BUT IT TURNED OUT THAT --

JAMES CURTIS>> -- YEAH, AND THAT'S THE SAME ARTICLE IN WHICH DOROTHY PARKER'S FAMOUS EPITAPH CAME FROM, WHICH WAS "EXCUSE MY DUST".

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) SO WHAT IS ON HIS TOMBSTONE?

JAMES CURTIS>> JUST HIS NAME.

VAL>> OH, REALLY?

JESS>> YOU SAY HE GENERALLY DIDN'T LIKE OTHER ACTORS. HOW DID HE GET ALONG WITH MAE WEST?

JAMES CURTIS>> (LAUGHTER) HE WAS UNFAILINGLY POLITE TO MAE WEST AND SHE HATED HIM. I THINK PART OF THE REASON, FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DISCOVER AND TO LOOK IN THE PAPERS AND THE LIKE, IS THAT SHE OBJECTED HIS TAKING CO-WRITING CREDIT ON THE FILM THAT THEY MADE TOGETHER BECAUSE SHE WAS QUITE PROUD OF THE FACT THAT SHE WROTE A LOT OF HER OWN FILMS. AS A RESULT OF HIS TAKING CO-WRITING CREDIT, I THINK THAT IRKED HER A GREAT DEAL.

JESS>> BUT THE PHRASE "MY LITTLE CHICKADEE" WAS HIS?

JAMES CURTIS>> THAT WAS HIS. THAT CAME FROM A 1932 FILM CALLED "IF I HAD A MILLION" AND THAT WAS AN ADLIB ON HIS PART.

VAL>> AND THEN IT BECAME THE TITLE OF --

JAMES CURTIS>> -- THAT WAS HIS CATCH PHRASE AFTER THAT. IT FOLLOWED HIM TO THE GRAVE AND BEYOND.

JESS>> IT ACTUALLY WAS A SUPPORTING ROLE IN "MY LITTLE CHICKADEE", WASN'T IT?

JAMES CURTIS>> WELL, HE WAS BY FAR THE BIGGER ATTRACTION AT THAT TIME. HE MADE THREE TIMES AS MUCH MONEY OFF THAT FILM AS MAE WEST, BUT HE CEDED TOP BILLING TO HER IN ORDER TO GET MORE CONTROL, BUT THAT DIDN'T PLACATE HER, I'M AFRAID.

JESS>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OUR THANKS TO JAMES CURTIS. AGAIN, THE BOOK IS CALLED "W. C. FIELDS: A BIOGRAPHY". YOU CAN FIND MORE INFORMATION ON THE W. C. FIELDS FILM FESTIVAL ON THE WEB AT CINEMA.UCLA.EDU OR BY CALLING THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN.

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