4/9/03

LC030409

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> THE CITY WORRIES ABOUT TERRORISTS HITTING THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES, BUT ONE MAN SAYS THE BIGGER THREAT IS THE KILLER THAT’S ALREADY THERE.

NOEL PARK>> I MEAN, I’VE RAISED MY KIDS HERE. WHAT IF THEIR LIFE SPAN WAS SHORTENED BECAUSE I RAISED THEM HERE IN MY IGNORANCE OF WHAT’S GOING ON HERE? I MEAN, IT SCARES ME.

VAL>> AND THEN TREATING THE VICTIMS OF WAR LONG AFTER THE FIGHTING IN IRAQ IS OVER. TONIGHT WE’LL HEAR FROM A VIETNAM VET WHO’S AN EXPERT IN POST TRAUMATIC STRESS.

JESS>> PLUS, A SHIFT TO THE LIGHTER SIDE WITH TEXAS SATIRIST AND MUSICIAN, KINKY FRIEDMAN.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> ONE MAN’S CRUSADE AGAINST THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> AND AT THE HEART OF IT ALL WAS A BATTLE OVER THE AIR WE BREATH. JUST THINK ABOUT ALL THE CARGO SHIPS AND TRUCKS AND HEAVY EQUIPMENT AROUND THE PORT AND YOU HAVE SOME IDEA OF HOW MUCH EXHAUST GETS PUMPED INTO THE AIR EVERY DAY. BUT AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, CLEARER SKIES ARE ON THE WAY ALL BECAUSE ONE MAN GOT FED UP.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AS A LONG-TIME RESIDENT OF SAN PEDRO, NOEL PARK KNEW ALL ABOUT LIFE AROUND THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES, BUT ONLY RECENTLY DID HE REALIZE THAT THE LOCAL AIR WAS A FOUL MIX OF TOXIC EXHAUST. THE REVELATION CAME AFTER PARK SAW A MAP PUBLISHED BY THE AIR QUALITY MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. IT SHOWED A HIGH CANCER RISK FROM DIESEL EMISSIONS IN THE HARBOR AREA.

NOEL PARK>> WE GOT QUITE FRIGHTENED AND WE WENT TO THE PORT AND WE SAID, GEE, IT SAYS HERE THAT THIS STUFF CAUSES CANCER, YOU KNOW. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

PHILIP BRUCE>> PARK SAYS THE ANSWER WASN’T MUCH. PORT OFFICIALS BASICALLY TUNED OUT THE CONCERNS OF NEIGHBORING RESIDENTS.

NOEL PARK>> THE PORT CULTURE HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN ONE OF IGNORING THE COMMUNITY AND OF ARROGANCE TOWARD THE COMMUNITY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT THIS TIME, PARK SAYS HE WASN’T ABOUT TO BE PUT OFF.

NOEL PARK>> I MEAN, I’VE RAISED MY KIDS HERE. WHAT IF THEIR LIFE SPANS WERE SHORTENED BECAUSE I RAISED THEM HERE IN MY IGNORANCE OF WHAT’S GOING ON HERE? I MEAN, IT SCARES ME.

PHILIP BRUCE>> PARK HEADS A COALITION OF HOMEOWNERS IN SAN PEDRO AND, SOON ENOUGH, HE FOUND HIMSELF TURNING TO SOME WELL-ESTABLISHED ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS FOR HELP.

GAIL RUDERMAN FEUER>> WHEN PEOPLE THINK OF POLLUTION, THEY LOOK AT THAT BLACK GUNK IN THE AIR. THE PROBLEM IS, THERE’S AN INVISIBLE KILLER OUT THERE AND THAT IS THE CANCER-CAUSING RISK THAT COMES FROM TOXIC POLLUTION IN THE AIR. MORE THAN SEVENTY PERCENT OF THAT COMES FROM DIESEL EXHAUST ALONE, SO YOU CAN HAVE A CLEAR, BEAUTIFUL DAY AND STILL HAVE VERY HIGH RISK FROM AIR POLLUTION AND THAT’S WHAT THESE PEOPLE FACE EVERY DAY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> GAIL RUDERMAN FEUER IS AN ATTORNEY WITH THE NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL. SHE SAYS THE SAN PEDRO COMMUNITY ASKED THEM TO LOOK INTO A NEW TERMINAL FOR THE CHINA SHIPPING HOLDING COMPANY, A PROJECT THAT THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES HAD ALREADY APPROVED. THE HOMEOWNERS WERE CONVINCED THAT THE CITY HAD MOVED ON THE TERMINAL WITHOUT WEIGHING ALL THE ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS.

GAIL RUDERMAN FEUER>> AND AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT THE COMMUNITY AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS TOOK ON THE PORT AND SAID NO, WE WON’T TAKE IT ANYMORE. WE WANT A CLEAN PROJECT AND WE WANT A FULL REVIEW.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WORK ON THE PROJECT WAS ALREADY UNDERWAY AS THE CASE MOVED THROUGH THE COURTS. IT WAS, IN THE MINDS OF MANY, A CONTEST OF DAVID VERSUS GOLIATH, BUT ONCE AGAIN, DAVID WON WHEN THE RESIDENTS PREVAILED.

GAIL RUDERMAN FEUER>> IT WASN’T UNTIL WE GOT TO THE COURT OF APPEALS THAT THEY SAID YES, YOU HAVE A STRONG CASE AND WE ARE GOING TO STOP THE PROJECT IN ITS TRACKS. THAT’S WHAT THEY DID. THE FIRST WHARF WAS NINETY PERCENT COMPLETE AND THE COURT SAID, SORRY, YOU HAVE TO LAY DOWN YOUR TOOLS AND STOP WHAT YOU’RE DOING AND PERFORM A FULL ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW FIRST.

PHILIP BRUCE>> NOW THE CITY AND THE HOMEOWNERS HAVE SETTLED THE CASE. WORK HAS RESUMED ON THE CHINA SHIPPING TERMINAL, BUT THE PORT HAS TO TAKE A NUMBER OF STEPS TO MAKE THE PROJECT ENVIRONMENTALLY SOUND.

GAIL RUDERMAN FEUER>> THEY WILL REQUIRE ALL OF THEIR YARD TRUCKS ON THE SITE TO RUN ON CLEAN ALTERNATIVE FUELS LIKE PROPANE OR NATURAL GAS. EVERY SHIP THAT COMES IN HERE THAT NORMALLY PUMPS OUT A TON OF POLLUTION A DAY AS IT SITS AT THE DOCKS WILL INSTEAD HAVE TO PLUG INTO ELECTRICITY AND TURN OFF ITS ENGINES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> TODAY THE CITY CLAIMS IT’S SATISFIED WITH THE OUTCOME AND SO IS LARRY KELLER, THE PORT’S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.

LARRY KELLER>> THE RESULT OF THE SETTLEMENT WILL BE THAT CHINA SHIPPING GETS TO OPEN AND ACTUALLY THEY COULD OPEN AT ANY TIME NOW. IT’S A VERY VALUABLE LEASE TO THE PORT AND TO THE CITY. IT’S ALSO THREE HUNDRED JOBS PER SHIFT. THE OTHER RESULT, OF COURSE, IS THAT CONSIDERABLE MONEY AND MITIGATION WAS PROVIDED IN THE LAWSUIT, TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS FOR AIR QUALITY, TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS FOR COMMUNITY MITIGATION AND TEN MILLION DOLLARS TO REMOVE OLD TRUCKS OR RE-ENGINE OLD TRUCKS FROM THE ROADS. VERY CONSIDERABLE BENEFITS HERE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND CLEAN AIR ADVOCATES AGREE THERE ARE SOME DEFINITE BENEFITS.

GAIL RUDERMAN FEUER>> THE HAPPY ENDING IS THAT ULTIMATELY WE REACHED A SETTLEMENT THAT WE THINK IS IN ALL THE PARTIES’ INTEREST, BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT WINNING THE CASE IS IT DOES TWO THINGS. IT SENDS A MESSAGE THAT THE LITTLE GUY CAN WIN AND CAN PROTECT THE RIGHT TO BREATH CLEAN AIR AND HAVE A SAFE COMMUNITY. IT ALSO SENDS A MESSAGE THAT, THE NEXT TIME AROUND, THIS PORT OR SOME OTHER PORT HAS TO DO THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL HOMEWORK BEFORE THEY MOVE AHEAD WITH AN EXPANSION PROJECT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> LARRY KELLER SAYS THE PORT WILL BE MINDFUL OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS, ESPECIALLY SINCE THAT’S WHAT MAYOR JAMES HAHN WANTS.

LARRY KELLER>> WE’VE BEEN ENCOURAGED BY THE MAYOR TO COME UP WITH A NO NET INCREASE POLICY WHICH MEANS THAT, WHILE OUR BUSINESS GROWS, WE’LL FIND WAYS TO REDUCE THE EFFECTS OF THAT GROWTH, INCLUDING DIESEL.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT NOEL PARK REMAINS DOUBTFUL.

NOEL PARK>> WE HAVE IMMERSED OURSELVES IN THIS ISSUE TO TRY TO EDUCATE OURSELVES ALL IN SELF-DEFENSE. WE SEE NOTHING BEING PLANNED THAT WILL EVER GET TO NO NET INCREASE IN EMISSIONS. AT THIS POINT, NO NET INCREASE IN EMISSIONS IS A SLOGAN AND A GOAL FOR SOMEWHERE DOWN THE ROAD. BUT AS WE STAND HERE TODAY, THE EMISSIONS ARE INCREASING DAY BY DAY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> PARK SAYS ANOTHER REASON FOR CONCERN IS THE LACK OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE PORT’S DIRTY AIR ON RESIDENTS’ HEALTH.

NOEL PARK>> WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING TO US EVERY DAY SAYING, OH, MY CHILDREN HAS EMPHYSEMA, I’VE GOT ASTHMA. ASTHMA INCIDENTS IN WILMINGTON ARE HUGE. WE GET REFERRED TO PEOPLE GETTING CANCER ALL THE TIME. IS THAT SCIENTIFICALLY SUPPORTABLE? WELL, NO, IT’S NOT. NOBODY HAS EVER DONE A STUDY. OVER TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO, WE WROTE TO THE PORT AND WE SAID THIS IS A TOXIC CARCINOGENIC AIR CONTAMINANT. IF YOU’RE GOING TO CREATE IT AS A PUBLIC AGENCY, YOU NEED TO DO A STUDY OF THE IMPACT ON OUR HEALTH. WELL, TO THIS DATE, NO SUCH STUDY HAS BEEN DONE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHILE THE COMMUNITY SUCCEEDED IN THE CHINA SHIPPING LAWSUIT, NOEL PARK THINKS THE FIGHT IS FAR FROM OVER.

NOEL PARK>> QUITE FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, IT’S A SORT OF “I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE” RESPONSE. I MEAN, WE HAVE LEGITIMATE ISSUES AND WE’VE BEEN DISMISSED AND WE DON’T GO AWAY THAT EASY.

JESS>> THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES SAYS THE COST OF NEW CLEAN AIR MEASURES WILL CUT INTO PROFITS FROM THE TERMINALS, BUT MANY SEE IT AS A LONG-TERM INVESTMENT THAT WILL ENHANCE THE PORT’S VALUE AND ESTABLISH IT AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL ROLE MODEL.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, SARS, THE MYSTERY ILLNESS FROM CHINA, HAS CLAIMED A HUNDRED VICTIMS SO FAR, BUT YOU DON’T HAVE TO GET THE DISEASE TO SUFFER. WE’LL LOOK AT THE CHILLING IMPACT SARS IS HAVING ON BUSINESS IN MANY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA’S ASIAN COMMUNITIES. THAT’S THURSDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE’S TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES “WHAT DO YOU THINK?” POLL. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG AND WEIGH IN ON THE FOLLOWING QUESTION: IS SARS A THREAT TO YOU OR YOUR FAMILY? WE’LL COUNT YOUR RESPONSES AND REPORT THE RESULTS ON TOMORROW NIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> MERCIFULLY, THE WAR IN IRAQ WILL NOT LAST FOREVER, BUT SOME OF THE SOLDIERS THERE MIGHT FACE A LIFELONG ILLNESS EVEN IF THEY NEVER SUFFER A PHYSICAL INJURY. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, A CLINICAL NAME FOR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE HORRORS OF COMBAT LINGER ON LONG AFTER THE FIGHTING HAS ENDED.

VAL>> THE ILLNESS HAS BEEN AROUND EVEN BEFORE DOCTORS KNEW WHAT TO CALL IT. IN FACT, SOME SURVIVING VETERANS OF WORLD WAR TWO STILL SUFFER FROM WHAT WAS THEN CALLED SHELL SHOCK. BUT WE HEARD THE MOST ABOUT IT AFTER VIETNAM WHEN AMERICAN SOLDIERS TALKED ABOUT THE HORRIBLE THINGS THEY WOULD NEVER FORGET.

>> WHEN I GO BACK TO THE WORLD, I DON’T WANT TO EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS PLACE AGAIN. I MEAN, I’LL PROBABLY WATCH THE NEWS AND SEE HOW THE FIGHT’S GOING AND EVERYTHING, BUT I DON’T WANT TO BE REMINDED ABOUT WHEN I WAS OUT THERE.

>> I’D LIKE TO SAY THAT I WON’T, YOU KNOW, FIRE OR SHOOT ANYBODY, BUT THEN YOU ALWAYS GOT THAT LITTLE THING IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND, WELL, WHAT IF ALL OF A SUDDEN ONE DAY THERE’S A GOOK AND HE’S GOT HIS AK POINTED AT YOU? I MEAN, WOW. IF I EVER DO HAVE TO KILL SOMEBODY, I THINK I’D GO INSANE AFTERWARDS BECAUSE OF THE CONSCIENCE THING. WOW, I KILLED SOMEBODY, WOW. I JUST HOPE IT NEVER HAPPENS.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS A VIETNAM-ERA VET WHO MAY WIND UP TREATING SOME OF THE SOLDIERS WHO COME HOME FROM IRAQ. JERRY MELNYK IS WITH THE POST TRAUMATIC STRESS UNIT AT THE V.A. MEDICAL CENTER IN WEST LOS ANGELES. THIS IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF WAR. WILL WE HAVE DIFFERENT SORTS OF PROBLEMS?

JERRY MELNYK>> I THINK THE SOLDIERS NOWADAYS ARE BEING PREPARED A DIFFERENT WAY, BUT I THINK ANYBODY THAT'S EVER EXPOSED TO ANY KIND OF TRAUMATIC EVENT HAS A TENDENCY TO COME BACK WITH SOME KIND OF AFTER-EFFECTS.

VAL>> IS THERE A SORT OF BASIC CHECKLIST OF SYMPTOMS OR BEHAVIORS THAT QUALIFY ONE AS A VICTIM OF POST TRAUMATIC STRESS?

JERRY MELNYK>> THE TRADITIONAL OR THE MAIN ONES THAT COME TO MIND ARE THE VET WOULD REPORT HAVING INTRUSIVE THOUGHTS OR RECOLLECTIONS OF EVENTS THAT ARE HORRIFIC OR THEY SORT OF COME BACK NOT BECAUSE HE OR SHE WANTS THEM TO COME BACK. THEY SORT OF COME BACK ON THEIR OWN. THERE MAY BE A FEELING OF RELIVING THE EVENT. THEY MAY BE SITTING SOMEPLACE AND SOMETHING TRIGGERS AN EVENT AND, ALL AT ONCE, YOU ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE YOU'RE BACK IN THERE OR HAVING SOME KIND OF SENSATION TO THAT. OR THERE MIGHT BE JUST LIKE A FEELING THAT COMES OVER YOU THAT SOMETHING IS LIKE HANGING OVER YOUR HEAD OR SOMETHING IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. THOSE KIND OF FEELINGS.

JESS>> ARE THERE CERTAIN EVENTS THAT YOU CAN PREDICT THAT WILL PRODUCE POST TRAUMATIC STRESS?

JERRY MELNYK>> THE BASIC CRITERIA FOR POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER IS THAT IT'S A LIFE-THREATENING EVENT TO YOURSELF AND YOU'RE IN FEAR OF LOSING YOUR LIFE OR PEOPLE AROUND YOU ARE LOSING THEIRS. I THINK THAT'S WHERE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT EITHER AN EARTHQUAKE OR AN ACCIDENT OR WHAT HAPPENED IN NEW YORK CITY TO A WAR, I THINK WHAT'S DIFFERENT IN WAR IS THAT USUALLY IN CIVILIAN LIFE YOU HAVE A TRAUMATIC EVENT AND THERE'S THIS INFLUX OF PEOPLE AND PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU GET OUT. IN WAR, IT'S LIKE ONE EVENT AFTER ANOTHER AND I THINK THAT'S WHY VETERANS ARE MORE APT TO HAVE POST TRAUMATIC STRESS.

VAL>> WELL, THE WAY YOU DESCRIBE IT, IT SOUNDS LIKE VIRTUALLY EVERY VETERAN WHO'S SEEN COMBAT WOULD BE A VICTIM OF POST TRAUMATIC STRESS. DOES IT STILL AFFECT SOME AND NOT OTHERS OR A SMALL PERCENTAGE OR A BIG PERCENTAGE OR HOW MANY PEOPLE DOES IT AFFECT?

JERRY MELNYK>> THAT SEEMS TO BE -- FROM VIETNAM, I THINK THE AVERAGE OR THE NUMBERS THEY'VE THROWN AROUND WAS ABOUT TEN TO FIFTEEN PERCENT OF ALL THOSE THAT SERVED.

VAL>> I'M SURPRISED IT'S NOT HIGHER.

JERRY MELNYK>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE IT AND STILL DEAL WITH IT. IT'S HOW QUICKLY YOU ADDRESS THOSE BEHAVIORS THAT YOU'VE DEVELOPED TO COPE WITH ALL THESE KINDS OF FEELINGS THAT YOU GET OR THOSE INTRUSIVE THOUGHTS. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SUPPORT SYSTEM, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOU, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WITH VETERANS IS THAT YOU'RE TAUGHT TO SORT OF TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOU'RE NOT APT TO GO OUT AND SEEK HELP. YOU FIGURE THAT SOMEHOW YOU WILL OVERCOME THIS. FAMILY MEMBERS AT TIMES ARE JUST RELUCTANT OR DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO THEMSELVES. I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT FAMILY MEMBERS NOW GET SOME KIND OF INFORMATION TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT PTSD IS SO THEY CAN BE A RESOURCE TO THAT VETERAN. OR IF THE VETERAN IS HAVING PROBLEMS, THE FAMILY CAN SORT OF SUPPORT THEM IN TRYING TO GET SOME KIND OF HELP.

JESS>> TERROR IS OBVIOUSLY A PRINCIPAL INGREDIENT, BUT WHAT ABOUT GUILT?

JERRY MELNYK>> I THINK IT'S A MAJOR ROLE. ONCE YOU'VE GOTTEN THROUGH WHATEVER TRAUMATIC EVENT IT WAS AND IF YOU'RE THE FORTUNATE ONE TO SURVIVE --

JESS>> -- SURVIVOR'S GUILT THEN?

JERRY MELNYK>> THERE YOU GO. YOU SIT BACK LATER IN TEN, TWENTY OR THIRTY YEARS LATER, IF I HAD ONLY DONE THIS, IF I HAD ONLY DONE THAT. I THINK THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS TO A LOT OF VETERANS. THEY BEGIN IN THEIR MINDS TO RUMINATE ABOUT THOSE THINGS AND THEY ACTUALLY DISTORT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, SO BY COMING IN TO COUNSELING, WE HELP THEM SORT OF REFRAME THAT IN THEIR MINDS AND MAYBE ALLOW THEM TO HAVE THE GUILT THAT THEY MAY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR AND TO ELIMINATE ALL THAT OTHER GUILT THAT THEY'RE CARRYING AROUND.

VAL>> YOU MENTIONED THAT SOLDIERS TODAY ARE BEING TRAINED DIFFERENTLY. HOW ARE THEY BEING TRAINED DIFFERENTLY FROM BEFORE AND HOW MIGHT THAT AFFECT THEIR LIKELIHOOD OF SUFFERING FROM POST TRAUMATIC STRESS?

JERRY MELNYK>> I DON'T EVER RECALL, DURING MY DAYS IN BOOT CAMP, GETTING A LITTLE CARD SAYING THAT IF I'M FEELING STRESSED THAT I SHOULD TALK TO ONE OF MY FELLOW BUNK MEN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

VAL>> THEY GET THAT NOW?

JERRY MELNYK>> THAT'S WHAT I'VE HEARD.

VAL>> SO THEY ENCOURAGE COMMUNICATION, A KIND OF EMOTIONAL VENTING AND SHARING?

JERRY MELNYK>> YES. THERE ARE PSYCHOLOGICAL TEAMS OUT WITH THE SOLDIERS NOW TOO, SO THEY'RE THERE TO SORT OF TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES QUICKER.

JESS>> GOING BACK TO THE FEELINGS OF GUILT, WE'VE HAD ALREADY SEVERAL INSTANCES OF TRAGEDIES AS A RESULT OF SO-CALLED FRIENDLY FIRE. THAT'S GOT TO PRODUCE ENORMOUS GUILT.

JERRY MELNYK>> YES, IT DOES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY. I MEAN, THAT IS PROBABLY THE MOST HORRIFIC THING WHEN ONE FINDS OUT LATER THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING CORRECTLY AND SOMEHOW THERE WAS A MISTAKE.

JESS>> WHETHER THE VICTIMS ARE COLLEAGUES OR INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

JERRY MELNYK>> EXACTLY, EXACTLY. I THINK THAT WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT WHEN THEY WERE CHANGING UNIFORMS AND COMING OUT AS CIVILIANS. THEY WERE GETTING BLOWN UP. INITIALLY, THEY WERE ALLOWING THEM TO GET REAL CLOSE AND NOW THEY'RE FORCING THEM TO STAY SOME DISTANCE AWAY FROM THEM.

VAL>> DO YOU EXPECT -- I KNOW YOU CAN'T REALLY PREDICT -- BUT DOES YOUR GUT KIND OF TELL YOU THAT WE WILL BE SEEING MORE VICTIMS OF POST TRAUMATIC STRESS COME OUT OF THIS IRAQI CONFLICT THAN WE DID FROM THE GULF WAR IN 1990?

JERRY MELNYK>> IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING. THE VETS IN -- OUR PROGRAM ITSELF WAS STARTED IN 1979 TO SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS VIETNAM VETERANS. SINCE THEN, THE PROGRAM HAS BEEN EXPANDED TO NOW ADDRESS ANY VETERAN THAT WAS IN A COMBAT SITUATION.

JESS>> SO IT'S ALREADY A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL PROGRAM. YOU'RE TREATING 1,200 VETERANS A MONTH, SEVENTY PERCENT OF THEM FROM THE VIETNAM WAR?

JERRY MELNYK>> THAT'S CORRECT.

VAL>> ARE YOU STARTING TO SEE THE VETERANS FROM THE GULF WAR COME IN OR NOT SO MUCH?

JERRY MELNYK>> THEY ARE NOW STARTING TO COME IN. THERE SEEMS TO BE THIS DELAY OF MAYBE FIVE OR SEVEN YEARS BEFORE PEOPLE START COMING UP. ONCE AGAIN, I THINK IT'S THAT TENDENCY OF I CAN DO IT SOMEHOW AND GET THROUGH THIS. SOME VETERANS USE ALCOHOL, SOME USE DRUGS. OTHER PEOPLE MAY GET INVOLVED IN LIFE. THEY GET BUSY, THEY GET MARRIED, THEY GET A JOB AND WORKING AND THEN, ALL AT ONCE, THERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS IN THEIR LIFE, MAYBE A LOSS OF A CHILD OR ANOTHER DISASTER, THAT SEEMS TO SORT OF TRIGGER AND BRING THOSE THINGS UP. WE'RE SEEING VETERANS NOW THAT MORE OR LESS SEEM TO HAVE IT TOGETHER UNTIL WE HAD, ONE, THE NEW YORK INCIDENT, WE HAD THE CHALLENGER EXPLODE, AND NOW WE HAVE THE WAR GOING ON. SO IT SEEMS LIKE ANY TIME THAT THERE'S ANOTHER TRAUMATIC EVENT, THAT MIGHT SOLICIT THOSE FEELINGS.

JESS>> WORLD WAR ONE, WE CALLED IT SHELL SHOCK. IT BECAME COMBAT FATIGUE IN WORLD WAR TWO. IN VIETNAM, IT BECAME POST TRAUMATIC STRESS. ALL THE SAME DISORDERS?

JERRY MELNYK>> EXACT SAME THING.

VAL>> JERRY MELNYK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHEDDING SOME LIGHT ON THIS.

JERRY MELNYK>> YOU'RE QUITE WELCOME. THANK YOU.

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JESS>> IF YOU'RE A FAN OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, YOU MAY WANT TO TURN DOWN THE VOLUME FOR THE NEXT FEW MINUTES (LAUGHTER). OUR NEXT GUEST IS A FREE SPIRIT WHO SPEAKS HIS MIND WITH A TEXAS ACCENT. THAT'S HOW KINKY FRIEDMAN WOUND UP CALLING HIS BAND "KINKY FRIEDMAN AND THE TEXAS JEW BOYS". ONE OF THEIR BIG HITS WAS A COUNTRY SONG ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

VAL>> KINKY IS A MUSICIAN AND A SATIRIST AND HAS BEEN CALLED A TEXAS VERSION OF MARK TWAIN. THESE DAYS, HE'S WRITING NOVELS. HIS LATEST BOOK IS CALLED "KILL TWO BIRDS AND GET STONED". IT IS THE STORY OF A NEW YORK AUTHOR WHO FINDS HIMSELF BY DIVING INTO THE DEPTHS OF A GREENWICH VILLAGE BAR. WE TRUST THIS IS NOT AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL AND WE ARE VERY PLEASED TO HAVE KINKY FRIEDMAN WITH US TONIGHT, OR SO WE THINK. HOW ARE YOU?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

JESS>> IS IT NOT SOMEWHAT AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> IT IS IN TERMS OF BEING A WRITER, YES. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ANY WRITER GOES THROUGH, I THINK. IT'S REALLY A STORY OF THESE THREE PEOPLE TRYING TO TAKE DOWN A STARBUCKS IN NEW YORK CITY AND --

VAL>> -- YOU MEAN BECAUSE THEY'RE AGAINST CHAINS?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> NO, NO. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT POLITICAL. THEY'RE MODERN DAY MERRY PRANKSTERS.

VAL>> SO WHY DO THEY WANT TO TAKE DOWN A STARBUCKS?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> FOR THE HELL OF IT. THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN. AT LEAST THE TWO PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT THE AUTHOR WANT TO HAVE FUN. THE AUTHOR IS THIS GUY WHO'S BLOCKED. HE HASN'T WRITTEN ANYTHING IN SEVEN YEARS AND HE'S IN ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS AND, YOU KNOW, HIS LIFE IS GOING NOWHERE FAST. HE MEETS THESE TWO VERY INTERESTING -- A MAN AND A WOMAN -- AND HE KIND OF GETS INVOLVED WITH BOTH OF THEM. THE STORY IS WHAT THEY DO TO HIS LIFE.

JESS>> WRITERS BLOCK BEING AN ELEMENT, THAT CLEARLY IS NOT AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL. YOU'VE DONE SIXTEEN NOVELS.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WELL, YEAH. THERE'S ABOUT SIXTEEN MYSTERY NOVELS I'VE TURNED OUT -- I MEAN, CAREFULLY CRAFTED (LAUGHTER). THIS ONE IS A DEPARTURE. THIS IS THE ONE THAT USUALLY FAILS. AS HERMAN MELVILLE SAID ABOUT "MOBY DICK", THE IMPORTANT BOOKS ARE THE BOOKS THAT FAIL. OF COURSE, "MOBY DICK" FAILED WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT. AFTER IT CAME OUT FOR A WHILE, YOU COULD ONLY FIND IT IN THE WHALING SECTIONS OF THE BOOK STORES (LAUGHTER). I MEAN, IT TANKED.

JESS>> YOU DO A MONTHLY COLUMN FOR THE TEXAS MONTHLY?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> TEXAS MONTHLY, YEAH.

JESS>> SO YOU'RE A SERIOUS WRITER.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WELL, I WRITE THE COLUMN AND A LOT OF PEOPLE READ IT. THAT'S HOW I GOT CLOSE TO GEORGE BUSH. HE WROTE TO ME. I DIDN'T EVEN --

JESS>> -- GEORGE W.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> GEORGE W., 43. HE WROTE TO ME ABOUT A COLUMN THAT I'D WRITTEN WHERE I'D MENTIONED HIS NAME AND HE SAID THANKS FOR MENTIONING HIS NAME IN THE TEXAS MONTHLY WITHOUT USING ANY CURSE WORDS AND HE INVITED ME TO THE WHITE HOUSE. I WROTE HIM BACK AND SAID I'VE GOT FOUR DOGS, FOUR WOMEN AND FOUR EDITORS. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR ME AND THE FOUR DOGS AND THE FOUR WOMEN TO SLEEP IN THE LINCOLN BEDROOM? HE WROTE ME BACK FROM CAMP DAVID -- THIS IS WHAT'S ALARMING, I MEAN, THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS TIME TO DO THIS SORT OF THING (LAUGHTER) -- BUT HE SAID HE DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT THE FOUR WOMEN, BUT THE FOUR DOGS MAYBE (LAUGHTER). SO I STARTED LIKING HIM AT THAT POINT.

VAL>> BUT YOU REALLY MET HIM? WHAT'S HE LIKE? WHAT WAS YOUR IMPRESSION OF HIM?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> OH, HE'S GREAT. I KNEW CLINTON BEFORE THAT. I WAS KIND OF A PROFESSIONAL FRIEND OF PRESIDENTS. I GAVE BILL A CUBAN CIGAR WHEN I VISITED THE WHITE HOUSE AND I TOLD HIM, REMEMBER, MR. PRESIDENT, WE'RE NOT SUPPORTING THEIR ECONOMY --

JESS>> -- HERE'S THE CURRENT PRESIDENT, GEORGE W.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> THERE HE IS, THERE'S GEORGE.

VAL>> HE'S GETTING AN EL JEFE, THE BOSS, SHIRT FROM THE LATINO ORGANIZATION.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WELL, HE'S DOING GREAT. I MEAN, YOU KIND OF STEPPED ON MY PUNCH LINE THERE, BUT I TOLD BILL CLINTON, REMEMBER, MR. PRESIDENT, -- ABOUT THE CUBAN CIGAR -- WE'RE NOT SUPPORTING THEIR ECONOMY, WE'RE BURNING THEIR FIELDS (LAUGHTER). GEORGE AND I SMOKED IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND I DID A READING FOR KIND OF A FAMILY DINNER THEY HAD. I FEEL VERY CLOSE TO THE BUSH FAMILY, AS WELL AS THE WILLY NELSON FAMILY.

JESS>> YOU SHOCKED THE SENSIBILITY OF SOME FOLKS JUST WHEN YOU FIRST BURST ON THE SCENE AS KINKY FRIEDMAN. THAT WAS ENOUGH, BUT THEN THE TEXAS JEW BOYS, AND THEN TO HAVE A HIT SONG ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WELL, THAT WASN'T THE HIT. THE HIT WAS "SOLD AMERICAN". SOME OF THE SONGS YOU'RE PROBABLY TALKING ABOUT ARE "THEY AIN'T MAKING JEWS LIKE JESUS ANYMORE" AND --

VAL>> "THEY AIN'T MAKING JEWS --

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> -- "THEY AIN'T MAKING JEWS LIKE JESUS ANYMORE", "GET YOUR BISCUITS IN THE OVEN AND YOUR BUNS IN THE BED" AND "PROUD TO BE AN ASSHOLE FROM EL PASO". THOSE WERE THE ONES THAT PARTICULARLY WERE THE MORE HUMOROUS ONES.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WERE THESE LIKE HITS?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> NO. NONE OF THEM WERE.

JESS>> THEY'RE CLASSICS.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> THEY'RE CLASSICS. THERE YOU GO.

VAL>> I HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH. WE ACTUALLY COMPARED YOU TO MARK TWAIN IN THE INTRO. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS SOUTHERN LIVING THAT DID THAT AND I DON'T KNOW WHY NOT. YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT LIVING WRITERS THAT ARE ANY GOOD? THERE'S VERY FEW OF THEM. I MEAN, THE ONLY GOOD BOOKS ARE WRITTEN BY DEAD PEOPLE THESE DAYS.

VAL>> WRITTEN BY DEAD PEOPLE, YOU MEAN, THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THEM ARE NOW DEAD.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> ARE NOW DEAD, AND THEY'VE BEEN BUGLED TO JESUS. THE ONES THAT ARE LIVING, YOU LOOK AT THE AMERICAN MAINSTREAM AND IT'S NOT REAL INSPIRING. SO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE REACHING US ARE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE BURIED IN PAUPER'S GRAVES LIKE MOZART AND VAN GOGH, YOU KNOW. I MEAN, NOBODY BOUGHT VAN GOGH'S STUFF, YOU KNOW.

JESS>> IF NOT MARK TWAIN, WOULD YOU TAKE WILL ROGERS AS A COMPARISON?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> YEAH, EITHER ONE WOULD BE FINE. I'LL TELL YOU THE IMPORTANT THING, I THINK, IS THAT COMING BACK FROM BEING A COUNTRY SINGER, I HAVE MANAGED TO REINVENT MYSELF. THIS IS WHAT F. SCOTT FITZGERALD SAID NEVER HAPPENS. THERE'S NO SECOND ACT IN AMERICA. BUT BECOMING A SUCCESSFUL POINTY-HEADED INTELLECTUAL MYSTERY NOVELIST AFTER THAT WAS HARD TO DO AND NOW, OF COURSE, I'M SELLING THIS SALSA, THESE BRANDS OF SALSA, THAT BENEFITS OUR RESCUE RANCH FOR ANIMALS IN TEXAS. KIND OF A PAUL NEWMAN DEAL.

JESS>> YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT THAT.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> YEAH. I GET NONE OF THE MONEY. IF ANYBODY WANTS TO ORDER IN CALIFORNIA, IT'S KINKYSPRIVATESTOCK.COM. IT'S GREAT SALSA, BUT I PROBABLY WILL BE KNOWN AS A RONALD REAGAN PITCHMAN SELLING SALSA.

VAL>> NOW HOW DOES -- HOW CAN I PUT THIS DELICATELY? -- HOW DOES A JEWISH COMMUNITY RESPOND TO YOU? YOUR OWN COMMUNITY?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS SAID THAT I'M THE OLDEST LIVING JEW IN TEXAS WHO DOESN'T OWN ANY REAL ESTATE (LAUGHTER). THE JEWISH COMMUNITY WAS, I DON'T KNOW, THE ONES THAT HAD THEIR HIP CARDS PUNCHED, ALWAYS LIKED ME. TODAY, I THINK THEY RESPOND FAVORABLY BECAUSE THE BOOKS HAVE DONE VERY WELL. "KILL TWO BIRDS AND GET STONED" IS REALLY DOING WELL.

VAL>> BUT YOU HAD TO HAVE GOTTEN SOME ANGRY LETTERS NOW AND THEN.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WE HAD BOMB THREATS AND STUFF WHEN WE FIRST PLAYED NEW YORK FROM THE JEWISH DEFENSE LEAGUE, BUT THEY CAME AROUND PRETTY QUICKLY, TO THEIR CREDIT. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TROUBLEMAKERS AND I LIKE PEOPLE WHO ARE TROUBLEMAKERS. THAT'S IN THE GREAT TRADITION OF JESUS, AS THE FIRST JEWISH TROUBLEMAKER.

JESS>> ONE THING THEY'LL NEVER ACCUSE YOU OF BEING IS AN ORTHODOX JEW IN SPITE OF THE HAIR STYLE.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> RIGHT. NO, I'M NOT ORTHODOX ANYTHING. ONE REASON I LIKE GEORGE SO MUCH IS HE'S A CHRISTIAN. JUST TO BE SERIOUS FOR A MOMENT, I TRUST THAT IN HIM. I THINK HE'S MOTIVATED. LIKE MY FRIEND, WILLY NELSON, IS A CONSPIRACY THEORIST. HE WAS VERY MUCH AGAINST THE WAR IN IRAQ AND SO FORTH AND I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

VAL>> YOU SUPPORT THE WAR IN IRAQ?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> YEAH. I WAS TELLING WILLY A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, LISTEN, THIS GUY IS A MURDEROUS BULLY AND WE JUST GOT TO TAKE HIM OUT, AND WILLY SAID NO, HE'S OUR PRESIDENT AND WE'VE GOT TO STAND BY HIM (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) HOW WOULD YOU SAY THE WAR IS GOING, FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> OH, I THINK IT'S GOING FINE. I THINK THAT, IF GEORGE HAD BEEN PRESIDENT DURING WORLD WAR TWO, THERE MIGHT NOT EVEN HAVE BEEN A HOLOCAUST, SO I MIGHT NOT HAVE WRITTEN THE SONG, YOU KNOW?

JESS>> AND THE YELLOW RIBBON IN YOUR LAPEL?

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> A LADY PUT THIS ON ME IN TEXAS AND IT'S FOR THE POWS.

VAL>> VERY GOOD.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> I MEAN, I'M NOT REAL POLITICAL, YOU KNOW, BUT --

JESS>> -- WE'VE NOTICED THAT (LAUGHTER).

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> I'M NOT, BUT I THINK THE MIDDLE EAST WILL BE A BETTER PLACE WHEN GEORGE GETS THROUGH WITH IT. THAT'S WHAT I THINK.

JESS>> THIS HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING TEN MINUTES AND WE'RE GRATEFUL TO KINKY FRIEDMAN FOR JOINING US.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> WELL, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. VAL AND JESS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) YOU'RE VERY WELCOME. THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

KINKY FRIEDMAN>> PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

JESS>> THE BOOK IS CALLED "KILL TWO BIRDS AND GET STONED", TWO THINGS WE'RE SURE THAT KINKY FRIEDMAN HAS NEVER DONE HIMSELF.

VAL>> NO, NO. AND A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OR HEAR THE AUDIO OF RECENT LIFE AND TIMES PROGRAMS ON OUR NEW SPIFFY, HIPPER, SLICKER WEBSITE. JUST GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON LIFE AND TIMES. YOU'LL SEE COMING UP, YOU'LL GET TO VOTE ON OUR POLL AND ALL SORTS OF OTHER NIFTY THINGS, SO CHECK IT OUT.

JESS>> YOU'VE HAD YOUR HIP CARD PUNCHED.

VAL>> YES, I HAVE.

JESS>> AND THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

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