4/22/03

LC030422

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> PULLING THE PLUG ON TELEMARKETERS, BUT WILL A NEW STATE LAW REALLY STOP THOSE ANNOYING PHONE CALLS?

STACY FALLON>> YOU CAN'T GET RID OF THEM. YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU SAY, NO, THANK YOU, NO, THANK YOU, THEY JUST BUT, BUT, BUT, AND IT'S NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY FIRST USED TO CALL YOU, YOU SAY I'M REALLY NOT INTERESTED, OKAY, SORRY, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND THEY'D HANG UP. BUT NOW THEY GOT YOU ON THE PHONE AND THEY WON'T LET YOU GO.

VAL>> AND THEN WE'LL FIND OUT HOW A NEW FILM IS SHATTERING STEREOTYPES ABOUT YOUNG ASIAN-AMERICANS, BUT IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE IMAGE SOME ASIANS WANT.

JESS>> PLUS, A TOP CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN AND HIS JIHAD WITH THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY.

VAL>> IT'S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> THEY ARE EXPERTS AT INTERRUPTING YOUR DINNER TIME.

JESS>> BUT TELEMARKETERS MAY FINALLY HAVE MET THEIR MATCH AND IT'S ALL THANKS TO A NEW STATE LAW THAT SAYS "DO NOT CALL". JUST IMAGINE, NO ONE TRYING TO GIVE YOU A NEW CREDIT CARD OR SELL YOU A TIMESHARE VACATION. BUT AS TONI GUINYARD REPORTS, DON'T COUNT THE TELEMARKETERS OUT JUST YET.

TONI GUINYARD>> THEY'RE THE TYPES OF CALLS THAT COME WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT OR WANT THEM.

ANN>> "HI, THIS IS ANN. I JUST WANTED TO CALL AND SAY HOW MUCH OUR TEAM APPRECIATES YOUR RECENT PURCHASES."

TONI GUINYARD>> CALLS FROM SOMEONE TRYING TO SELL YOU SOMETHING.

SVETLANA GRODY>> THEY BOTHER YOU WHEN YOU'RE LEAST READY TO BE BOTHERED. I FIND ALL THOSE EXTRANEOUS PHONE CALLS JUST PURE, UNADULTERATED ANNOYANCE. I WISH THEY'D STOP.

TONI GUINYARD>> DO YOU HANG UP ON THEM OR DO THEY HANG UP ON YOU?

SVETLANA GRODY>> NO, I HANG UP BIG TIME ON THEM.

ANN>> "IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO CALL."

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT THIS CALL ISN'T WHAT IT SEEMS. ALEXIS BONNELL, MARKETING DIRECTOR OF VOICE MAIL BROADCASTING CORPORATION, IS READING AND RECORDING A SCRIPT FOR AN AUTOMATED MESSAGE. IT WILL BE SENT BY COMPUTER TO CLIENTS' EXISTING CUSTOMERS. ITS TECHNOLOGY MEETS TELEMARKETING. BONNELL SAYS IT'S A WAY FOR COMPANIES TO CONTACT CONSUMERS AT A TIME WHEN MANY PEOPLE ARE FED UP WITH CALLS FROM TELEMARKETERS WHO JUST CAN'T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.

ALEXIS BONNELL>> WE'RE ABLE TO MAKE CALLS WHERE WE THINK AND WHEN WE THINK SOMEONE WILL NOT BE HOME, SO WE'RE NOT BOTHERING THEM AND STILL BEING ABLE TO BRING THEM THE SAME OFFER, THE SAME VALUE, BUT WITHOUT THE INTERRUPTION, WITHOUT THE INCONVENIENCE OR THE ANXIETY OF HAVING TO TELL SOMEONE NO OR HANG UP ON THEM.

JESSE CROWE>> WHAT WE DO INSTEAD OF HIRING, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OR EVEN THOUSANDS OF LIVE TELEMARKETERS AND TRYING TO RECRUIT THEM AND TRAIN THEM AND MAKE THEM EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATORS, WE TAKE AND USE TECHNOLOGY.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT CROWE ADMITS THAT EVEN TECHNOLOGY CAN'T SIDESTEP NEW LEGISLATION AIMED AT SILENCING TRADITIONAL TELEMARKETING CALLS. HIS COMPANY WILL FEEL THE IMPACT FROM "DO NOT CALL" LEGISLATION. AT THE CUSTOMERS' REQUEST, TELEMARKETERS WILL SOON BE FORCED TO REMOVE CUSTOMERS' NAMES FROM CALL LISTS. CALIFORNIA CONSUMERS CAN PRE-REGISTER NOW VIA THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S WEBSITE. THE REGISTRY WILL THEN BE SUBMITTED TO THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION'S "DO NOT CALL" LIST BEGINNING JULY AND THE REGISTRY WILL GO INTO EFFECT IN OCTOBER.

JESSE CROWE>> WITH ALL THE PUBLICITY AND ADVERTISING GOING ON, YOU MAY SEE ANYWHERE FROM THIRTY TO FIFTY PERCENT OF HOUSEHOLDS SUBSCRIBING. IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN MANY OF THOSE PERSONS MAY NOT GET MESSAGES THAT ARE VERY RELEVANT TO THEM THAT THEY WANT AND OUR CLIENTS WILL BE DOING LESS VOLUME IN REGARDS TO THAT.

TONI GUINYARD>> CONGRESSMAN BRAD SHERMAN CO-SPONSORED THE BILL THAT ESTABLISHED THE FEDERAL "DO NOT CALL" REGISTRY.

BRAD SHERMAN>> ONCE IT GETS GOING, IT'S GOING TO BE $11,000 PER VIOLATION. NOW THAT IS A FINE COLLECTED BY THE GOVERNMENT. I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT, IF YOU MADE A THOUSAND PHONE CALLS, THEY'D TRY TO COLLECT $11 MILLION DOLLARS FROM A VIOLATOR, BUT THEY'D MAKE SURE TO COLLECT AN AMOUNT THAT WOULD MAKE SURE THAT VIOLATION DIDN'T TAKE PLACE AGAIN.

TONI GUINYARD>> DESPITE THE FINES, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE YOUR TELEPHONE WILL BE SILENCED.

BRAD SHERMAN>> IF YOU'VE MADE AN APPLICATION OR AN INQUIRY TO A COMPANY, THEY CAN CALL YOU FOR UP TO THREE MONTHS AFTER THAT AND, IF YOU'RE DOING BUSINESS, IF YOU ACTUALLY BOUGHT SOMETHING, THEN IT'S AN EIGHTEEN MONTH.

STACY FALLON>> I SHOP FROM CATALOGS QUITE A BIT, BUT I'M THE ONE THAT MAKES THE PHONE CALL. I INITIATE THE BUSINESS. I DON'T EVER BUY ANYTHING WHEN THEY CALL ME.

TONI GUINYARD>> STACY FALLON WELCOMES THE "DO NOT CALL" REGISTRY. SHE'S HAD IT WITH TELEMARKETERS. MORE THAN ONE YEAR AGO, SHE BOUGHT ONE OF THOSE GADGETS THAT PROMISED TO QUIET THE UNWANTED CALLS, BUT SOME SALESPEOPLE STILL MADE IT THROUGH.

STACY FALLON>> YOU CAN'T GET RID OF THEM. YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU SAY, NO, THANK YOU, NO, THANK YOU, THEY JUST BUT, BUT, BUT, AND IT'S NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY FIRST USED TO CALL YOU, YOU SAY I'M REALLY NOT INTERESTED, OKAY, SORRY, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND THEY'D HANG UP. BUT NOW THEY GOT YOU ON THE PHONE AND THEY WON'T LET YOU GO.

TONI GUINYARD>> THANKS TO THE LEGISLATION, TELEMARKETERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LET YOU GO, BUT IT COULD ACTUALLY COST YOU.

JESSE CROWE>> LAST YEAR, ABOUT $661 BILLION DOLLARS, ACCORDING TO THE DMA, WAS PURCHASED THROUGH THE TELEPHONE. THE REASON PEOPLE CONTINUE TO USE IT IS THAT IT IS VERY EFFECTIVE AND CONSUMERS WANT TO BE COMMUNICATED IN THAT MANNER.

ALEXIS BONNELL>> OUR INDUSTRY ACCOUNTS FOR ALMOST SIX PERCENT OF THE GROSS DOMESTIC NATIONAL PRODUCT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

JESSE CROWE>> THEY DON'T REMEMBER THE CALLS THAT THEY NEEDED TO GET, BE IT FOR A SERVICE CALL OR BE IT FOR A REMINDER OR BE IT A CALL ABOUT A SPECIAL SALE EVENT THAT YOU'VE BEEN WAITING ALL YEAR FOR.

ALEXIS BONNELL>> COMPANIES THAT REALLY, YOU KNOW, WANT TO TALK TO THEIR CONSUMER, WANT TO BE ABLE TO OFFER THEIR CONSUMER, YOU KNOW, SPECIAL THINGS IN APPRECIATION FOR THEIR BUSINESS ARE ALL OF A SUDDEN CUT OFF FROM THEIR CONSUMER.

TONI GUINYARD>> AND IF CONGRESSMAN SHERMAN HAS HIS WAY, COMPANIES NOW EXEMPT FROM THE LAW WILL ONE DAY HAVE TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE SAME LIMITATIONS. THE CONGRESSMAN HAS HIS SIGHTS SET ON CLOSING WHAT HE CALLS A LOOPHOLE IN THE LAW. HE PLANS ON INTRODUCING ADDITIONAL LEGISLATION.

BRAD SHERMAN>> THE STATUTE ALLOWS BANKS AND CREDIT CARD COMPANIES, INSURANCE COMPANIES AND AIRLINES, AND TELEPHONE LONG DISTANCE COMPANIES. ALL OF THEM ARE EXEMPT IF THEY USE THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES TO MAKE THE CALL. I DON'T SEE WHY THESE COMPANIES SHOULD BE EXEMPT. FRANKLY, THEY ARE THE MAJOR, IN MANY CASES, SOURCES OF THE PROBLEM.

TONI GUINYARD>> A PROBLEM PROMPTING CONSUMERS TO LOG ON AND SIGN UP TO TELL SALESPEOPLE DON'T BOTHER CALLING.

JESS>> TONI GUINYARD JOINS US NOW. THE CAMPAIGNS FOR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THEY'RE EXEMPT FROM THIS LAW AS ARE CHARITIES?

TONI GUINYARD>> CHARITIES ARE ALSO EXEMPT AND CONGRESSMAN SHERMAN IS SAYING, WELL, WE'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND TAKE A LOOK AT THAT WHEN HE IS GOING TO INTRODUCE THIS NEW LEGISLATION BECAUSE THE TELEMARKETERS ARE DOWNRIGHT ANGRY THAT THERE ARE SO MANY EXEMPTIONS. THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO ADJUST TO ACCOMMODATE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT STATES WITH ALL OF THEIR DIFFERENT "DO NOT CALL" LISTS, PLUS THE FEDERAL "DO NOT CALL" LIST, AND IT'S COSTING THEM MONEY.

VAL>> BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME. LIKE IF I WERE TO SIGN UP TODAY ON THIS "DO NOT CALL" LIST, IT'S GOING TO TAKE MONTHS BEFORE IT ACTUALLY HAS AN IMPACT, RIGHT?

TONI GUINYARD>> YEAH, IT WILL HAVE TO CYCLE THROUGH IT. THIS WILL NOT ACTUALLY BEGIN UNTIL THE FIRST OF OCTOBER, THE BEGINNING OF OCTOBER, THE FEDERAL LIST. DIFFERENT STATES HAVE THEIR OWN REGISTRIES, BUT THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA -- IT WOULD COST US IF THE STATE WENT FORWARD WITH OURS, SO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO IS RELY ON THE FEDERAL REGISTRY.

VAL>> TONI, THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT MEANS KCET WILL STILL BE CALLING PEOPLE, BUT WE KNOW YOU'LL GIVE TO US (LAUGHTER).

TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, THEY'VE HAD THEIR OWN LITTLE SLICE OF PARADISE IN TOPANGA CANYON, BUT THEN CAME THE BULLDOZERS AS THE STATE BEGINS CLAIMING ITS LAND.

>> WE'VE BEEN PAYING VERY LITTLE RENT FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. WE'RE POOR PEOPLE. WE'RE ARTISTS, YOU KNOW? IT'S FANTASTIC, AND WHO WANTS TO LEAVE THAT FOR SOME, YOU KNOW, $1,600 ARTIST SPACE IN WEST LOS ANGELES?

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF LAST NIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES "WHAT DO YOU THINK?" POLL: YES - NINE PERCENT, NO - NINETY-ONE PERCENT. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG TO WEIGH IN ON A NEW QUESTION TOMORROW.

JESS>> WHEN HE WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN PARTY, SHAWN STEEL WAS FAMOUS FOR SPEAKING HIS MIND EVEN WHEN SOME OF HIS FELLOW PARTY MEMBERS WISHED HE HAD NOT. VERY OFTEN, HIS BLUNT TALK HAS GOTTEN HIM INTO SOME SERIOUS HOT WATER AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE TIMES.

VAL>> EASY TO UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THIS QUOTE. IT'S FROM THE USC CAMPUS NEWSPAPER REPORTING ON STEEL'S RECENT SPEECH TO STUDENTS: "THE ISLAMIC COMMUNITY HAS A CANCER GROWING INSIDE IT WHICH HATES JEWS, HATES FREEDOM AND HATES WESTERN SOCIETY. THE DISEASE OF ISLAM MUST BE RECTIFIED. IT'S KILL OR BE KILLED." THE MEMBERS OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA'S MUSLIM COMMUNITY ARE OUTRAGED AND HAVE DEMANDED AN APOLOGY, BUT STEEL SAYS THE QUOTE DOESN'T ACCURATELY REFLECT WHAT HE SAID. EARLIER TONIGHT, HE STOPPED BY HERE TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF.

JESS>> SHAWN STEEL, YOU DO STIR THEM UP (LAUGHTER), BUT THE DISEASE OF ISLAM MUST BE RECTIFIED? IT'S KILL OR BE KILLED?

SHAWN STEEL>> WELL, THAT'S A QUOTE THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME THAT I DID NOT SAY. I GAVE OVER A DOZEN SPEECHES AT UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES, UP AND DOWN CALIFORNIA SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT, SUPPORTING THE TROOPS. I DID MAKE A REFERENCE, VERY CLEARLY, THAT THERE IS INSIDE THE GREAT RELIGION OF ISLAM CERTAIN FUNDAMENTALIST RADICAL FACTIONS THAT ARE VERY DANGEROUS. BIN LADEN'S GROUP, THE CLERICS, THE THEOCRATS OF IRAN, SAUDI ARABIA, THEY HAVE MILLIONS OF FOLLOWERS THAT HATE AMERICA, HATE WESTERN CIVILIZATION AND HATE JEWS.

NOW THERE'S A 1.2 BILLION MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD. I THINK OVERWHELMINGLY THEY ARE MODERATE, THEY'RE TOLERANT, BUT THERE IS A GROWING FUNDAMENTALISM WITHIN ISLAM AND THAT'S ONE REASON WE HAVE THESE TERRORIST THREATS. THAT'S ONE REASON WE HAD 9/11 AND THAT'S ONE REASON WE HAD THE WAR IN IRAQ. TO DENY IT, I THINK, IS IRRESPONSIBLE.

VAL>> SO WHEN YOU SAY THE DISEASE OF ISLAM, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FUNDAMENTALIST FACTIONS WITHIN ISLAM.

SHAWN STEEL>> AND THAT'S WHAT I SAID. THEY GOT IT WITHIN --

VAL>> -- THESE ARE STUDENT REPORTERS WHICH YOU'RE --

SHAWN STEEL>> -- IT WAS A NICE STUDENT REPORTER. I DON'T THINK HE HAD AN AX TO GRIND, BUT HE GOT IT WRONG.

JESS>> BUT IT HAPPENED NOT ONLY AT USC. THE NEWSPAPER REPORTED IT THAT WAY, BUT SO DID LOYOLA MARYMOUNT.

SHAWN STEEL>> WELL, THAT WAS EVEN IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT. THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR IS THAT WE HAVE EIGHT MILLION MUSLIMS IN AMERICA. MANY OF THEM SUPPORTED GEORGE BUSH OVERWHELMINGLY, BUT EVEN WITHIN THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY HERE AND THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY INTERNATIONALLY, THERE STILL IS A GROWING RADICALISM AND ALIENATION THAT DIRECTLY INTERFERES WITH OUR SECURITY. NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT, IT ALMOST BECOMES A LITTLE TOO POLITICALLY CORRECT.

JESS>> WELL, YOU HEARD IT ALL BY ROB STUTZMAN'S COMMENT, THE GOP SPOKESMAN, SAYING WE WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR THE PARTY ANYMORE?

SHAWN STEEL>> WELL, THE FACT IS THAT ROB STUTZMAN DOESN'T SPEAK FOR THE PARTY EITHER. HE'S A PART-TIME CONSULTANT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S VERY INSIDE. THE FACT IS THAT, AS A FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE PARTY, I'VE GOT SEVERAL OTHER CAMPUSES THAT I'LL BE SPEAKING WITH THIS WEEK AND WE'RE GOING TO SPEAKING TWICE AT BERKELEY. THERE'S GOING TO BE A LARGE COLLEGE REPUBLICAN STATEWIDE CONVENTION AND I'LL BE SPEAKING THERE TWICE. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT, HAVING A CONVENTION OF COLLEGE REPUBLICANS AT BERKELEY, THAT'S NEWS. I'LL BE THERE, BUT STUTZMAN WON'T.

VAL>> I ALSO HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER QUOTE. THIS ONE WAS AIMED AT THE PEACE ACTIVISTS, OR THE PEACE MOVEMENT. AGAIN, TELL ME IF IT'S MISQUOTED, BUT I'LL JUST READ IT AS IT IS: "BECAUSE OF THE PEACE MOVEMENT, WE HAD THE HOLOCAUST."

SHAWN STEEL>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT ABBREVIATION, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY CORRECT. LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY. YOU HAD A LARGE PEACE MOVEMENT IN EUROPE AND IN AMERICA RIGHT BEFORE WORLD WAR TWO AND WINSTON CHURCHILL WAS CALLING OUT AND CRYING ABOUT THE DANGERS OF ADOLF HITLER. BECAUSE OF THE PEACE MOVEMENT, BECAUSE OF CHAMBERLAIN, BECAUSE OF THE DEALS THAT THE PEACE MOVEMENT MADE WITH ADOLF HITLER, HITLER GOT STRONGER AND STRONGER AND MORE EMPOWERED.

HAD CHURCHILL BEEN RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT, HAD WE HAD A CORRECT POLICY OF PREEMPTION TO GO INSIDE AND ENFORCE THE TREATY OF VERSAILLES AND NOT ALLOW THE GERMANS TO RE-ARM, NOT ALLOW HITLER TO GROW, NOT ALLOW HITLER TO TAKE OVER CZECHOSLOVAKIA LIKE IN THE TREATY OF MUNICH, CLEARLY HITLER WOULD HAVE BEEN DISENFRANCHISED, WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE POWER. BUT THE PEACE MOVEMENT DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE POWER THAT HITLER EVENTUALLY GAINED. OUT OF THAT, WE HAD WORLD WAR TWO, WE HAD OVER TWENTY MILLION PEOPLE KILLED. AS ANOTHER CONSEQUENCE, THE HOLOCAUST OCCURRED. CLEARLY, THE PEACE MOVEMENT --

VAL>> -- IT WAS CALLED THE ISOLATIONIST MOVEMENT, AMERICA FIRST.

SHAWN STEEL>> YEAH, AMERICA FIRST, ISOLATIONISTS. VERY POWERFUL PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT WERE SUPPORTING THAT, BUT IT WAS A DISASTER FOR THE WORLD COMMUNITY.

JESS>> FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT'S POLICY WAS INFLUENCED STRONGLY BY THE PACIFIST MOVEMENT?

SHAWN STEEL>> OH, I THINK FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT WAS A GREAT WARTIME LEADER. HE UNDERSTOOD THE DANGERS OF IMPERIALISM FROM JAPAN. HE UNDERSTOOD THE DANGERS OF THE NAZISM. I THINK HE WAS --

JESS>> -- BUT THE HOLOCAUST OCCURRED DURING HIS PERIOD IN WASHINGTON.

SHAWN STEEL>> YEAH, IT CERTAINLY DID, BUT BY NOT GOING AFTER HITLER TEN YEARS EARLIER IN THE THIRTIES WHEN HE WAS A GROWING AND EMERGING POWER -- IT WAS BASICALLY THE EUROPEANS THAT ALLOWED HITLER TO GROW. THE FRENCH WERE, AS USUAL, TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE THE DICTATOR. THE BRITISH LEADERSHIP WAS TRYING TO MAKE DEALS. EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO PACIFY HITLER. YOU DON'T PACIFY THESE KINDS OF DICTATORS. YOU CAN'T PACIFY SADDAM. YOU CAN'T PACIFY MUSSOLINI. YOU CAN'T PACIFY STALIN. YOU CAN'T PACIFY HITLER. THEY ARE INTRINSICALLY BAD PEOPLE THAT NEED TO HAVE THEIR POWER REDUCED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

VAL>> WE JUST HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, BUT I HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE FINAL CONTROVERSIAL QUOTE HERE. AGAIN, YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN MISQUOTED. IT SAYS: "THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS KEEPING THE KU KLUX KLAN ALIVE AND, IF WE LISTEN TO SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS WHO WANTED PEACE IN THE CIVIL WAR, WE'D STILL HAVE SLAVERY."

SHAWN STEEL>> WELL, THE FACT IS THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS --

VAL>> -- FIRST OF ALL, WERE YOU CORRECTLY QUOTED?

SHAWN STEEL>> YEAH, THAT IS CORRECT. THE SENIOR SENATOR FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE IS BYRD OF WEST VIRGINIA. HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE KU KLUX KLAN AS LATE AS THE 1940'S. THAT'S PUBLIC RECORD. EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. TO HAVE A PERSON WHO WAS A MEMBER OF THE KU KLUX KLAN -- I COULD UNDERSTAND THE TWENTIES, GIVEN THE CONTEXT, BUT IN THE FORTIES, HAVING THAT UN-CREDIBLE BACKGROUND AND HAVING HIM AS ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED AND REVERED MEMBERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, I THINK IS A BADGE OF DISHONOR AND THAT'S JUST A FACT.

PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND AND REMEMBER THAT ROBERT BYRD OF WEST VIRGINIA WAS A MEMBER OF THE KU KLUX KLAN. BUT MORE THAN THAT, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AS IT STANDS TODAY HAS A DIRECT LINEAGE GOING BACK TO THE SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS. IT'S THE SAME ORGANIZATION, THE SAME NATIONAL ORGANIZATION. OF COURSE, IT'S CHANGED. OF COURSE, IT'S NOT THE SAME ORGANIZATION, BUT IT HAS THE SAME LINEAGE. MY REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS CREATED FOR ONE SOLE PURPOSE AND THAT WAS TO LIBERATE THE COUNTRY FROM SLAVERY.

JESS>> WE SAID YOU STIRRED THINGS UP AND YOU'RE CONTINUING TO STIR. THANKS VERY MUCH, SHAWN STEEL.

SHAWN STEEL>> WELL, I HOPE SO. THANKS VERY MUCH. IT'S BEEN A LOT OF FUN.

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JESS>> MANY AMERICANS REGARD POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS ABOUT THE WAY SOME KIDS REGARD A TRIP TO THE DENTIST, BUT WITH THAT IN MIND, PATT MORRISON WONDERS WHY THE NATION'S CAPITOL WANTS TO MOVE TO THE FRONT OF THE ELECTION LINE. IT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> BRACE YOURSELF. THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS BARELY EIGHTEEN MONTHS AWAY. I SAY BARELY BECAUSE, LIKE ANY OTHER EVENT YOU'RE UNPREPARED FOR, IT'S HERE BEFORE YOU KNOW IT AND IT DOESN'T WAIT EIGHTEEN MONTHS TO SPRING UPON YOU. IT CREEPS UP ON YOU WEEK BY WEEK LIKE A JUNGLE CREATURE, SILENT AND DEADLY. WELL, DEADLY DULL SOMETIMES.

FIRST IT'S THE IOWA CAUCUSES IN JANUARY. THAT IS ONLY ONE FOURTH OF JULY, ONE LABOR DAY, A THANKSGIVING AND A CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY FROM NOW. THEN THEY GO FASTER AND FASTER LIKE THE "B" MOVIE IMAGES OF LEAVES FALLING FROM A CALENDAR. THE NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY, CALIFORNIA, SUPER TUESDAY, THE NOMINATING CONVENTIONS, THE FALL CAMPAIGN, THE VOTING, THE COUNTING, THE RECOUNTING. OH, SORRY, NO, THAT WAS THE 2000 ELECTION.

NOW EVEN WITH THIS BUSY DANCE CARD, THE WALLFLOWER, THE NATION'S PARTY PLANS TO BECOME THE BELLE OF THE PRESIDENTIAL BALL. THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA WANTS TO HOLD THE COUNTRY'S FIRST PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY. NOW NEW HAMPSHIRE LAW REQUIRES THAT ITS PRIMARY BE A WEEK BEFORE ANY SIMILAR PRIMARIES. D.C. WANTS TO HOLD ITS PRIMARY ON THE FIRST TUESDAY IN JANUARY, TWO WEEKS AHEAD OF NEW HAMPSHIRE'S. IMAGINE A PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY BEFORE THE SUPER BOWL.

NOW THIS IS PAPER-SCISSORS-ROCK, POLITICAL STYLE BECAUSE IT'S CONCEIVABLE THAT, TO STAY NUMBER ONE, NEW HAMPSHIRE WOULD HAVE TO BACK ITS PRIMARY UP TO THANKSGIVING. BUT WHAT D.C. IS DOING ISN'T REALLY ABOUT ELECTING. IT'S ABOUT VOTING. BY A QUIRK OF FEDERAL LAW, D.C. RESIDENTS ARE NEITHER FISH NOR FOWL AMERICANS. THEY'RE CONTROLLED MOSTLY BY CONGRESS AND NOT UNTIL 1975 DID THEY HAVE SOME SAY OVER CITY POLICY. THEY PAY FEDERAL TAXES, BUT DON'T GET A REAL VOTE IN CONGRESS. D.C.'S ONE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATE CAN VOTE IN HOUSE COMMITTEES, BUT NOT ON THE HOUSE FLOOR ON THE BIG ISSUES LIKE IMPEACHMENT AND BUDGETS AND WAR POWERS.

SO FROM FOGGY BOTTOM TO ADAMS MORGAN TO GEORGETOWN, THE ANCIENT CRY HAS GONE UP. NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. WASHINGTON HAD BETTER BE CAREFUL WHAT IT WISHES FOR LEST IT COME TRUE. A PRIMARY MEANS A CAMPAIGN. A CAMPAIGN MEANS POLITICAL CANDIDATES. AND YOU'D THINK THAT THE LAST THING THAT THE BELEAGUERED RESIDENTS OF D.C. NEEDS IS MORE POLITICIANS.

VAL>> IT'S A COMMON COMPLAINT AMONG MINORITY GROUPS. THEY DON'T SEE ENOUGH OF THEMSELVES IN FILM OR TELEVISION. SO YOU WOULD THINK A MOVIE STARRING A GROUP OF ASIAN-AMERICAN TEENAGE ACTORS WOULD BE A WELCOME CHANGE. NOT QUITE, BECAUSE THE MOVIE IS ALSO ABOUT SEX, CRIME, DRUGS AND VIOLENCE. HERE'S A BRIEF LOOK AT "BETTER LUCK TOMORROW".

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> IT'S A HOT PROPERTY AT MANY FILM FESTIVALS, BUT "BETTER LUCK TOMORROW" IS ALSO DRAWING SOME HEAT FOR ITS NEGATIVE PORTRAYAL OF ASIAN-AMERICANS. JOINING US NOW IS THE DIRECTOR, JUSTIN LIN. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO PEOPLE WHO SAY THIS IS A NEGATIVE APPROACH?

JUSTIN LIN>> WELL, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, LABELING IS VERY EASY TO DO, TO SAY POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE. I THINK THIS FILM WAS NOT MADE OUT OF ACCIDENT. I THINK THIS FILM WAS MADE SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A DIALOG AND I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS HEALTHY AND THAT'S ALWAYS POSITIVE.

VAL>> NOW DESCRIBE JUST THE PREMISE OF THE MOVIE. IT'S ABOUT SMART "A" STUDENTS HEADED FOR THE BEST COLLEGES, BUT --

JUSTIN LIN>> -- BUT THEY GET A LITTLE COMPLACENT AND THEY START KIND OF, YOU KNOW, DABBLING INTO PETTY CRIME AND THEIR LIVES START TO UNRAVEL AND ULTIMATELY THEY HAVE TO KIND OF FACE THE DECISIONS THAT THEY MAKE.

VAL>> BUT IT ESCALATES BEYOND PETTY CRIME?

JUSTIN LIN>> DEFINITELY.

VAL>> AND HAS SOME PRETTY VIOLENT SCENES AND A LOT OF DRUG DEALING. I MEAN, THERE ARE A LOT OF --

JUSTIN LIN>> -- RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT I'M TRYING TO KIND OF DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES, I HAVE TO KIND OF HAVE THAT IN THE FILM (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> ARE YOU EXPLODING THE STEREOTYPE OF THE MODEL MINORITY?

JUSTIN LIN>> I THINK STEREOTYPES ARE ONE-DIMENSIONAL CARICATURES, SO I'M DEFINITELY TRYING TO EXPLORE THESE CHARACTERS IN A THREE-DIMENSIONAL WAY. I THINK BY DOING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE A DIALOG. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES, EVEN WITHIN A COMMUNITY, PEOPLE THINK OF POSITIVE AND THEY MISCONSTRUE THAT AS FLAWLESS OR NOBLE. A LOT OF TIMES, THAT'S ONE-DIMENSIONAL ALSO AND I THINK THAT ANYTIME YOU FORCE THE PEOPLE, THE CHARACTERS, OUT AND YOU CAN EXPLORE THESE ISSUES, THAT'S EMPOWERING AND I THINK THAT'S POSITIVE.

VAL>> IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE WHAT STARTED THIS WHOLE BUZZ AROUND YOUR FILM WAS SOMEBODY STANDING UP AT THE SUNDANCE FESTIVAL AND SAYING TO YOU WHY WOULD YOU, WITH ALL THE TALENT UP THERE AND YOURSELF -- PARENTHETICALLY, BEING ASIAN-AMERICAN -- MAKE A FILM SO EMPTY AND AMORAL FOR ASIAN-AMERICANS AND FOR AMERICANS? WITH THAT, YOU GOT ALL SORTS OF PUBLICITY, DIDN'T YOU? (LAUGHTER)

JUSTIN LIN>> (LAUGHTER) YEAH, AND THE THING IS, I ACTUALLY REALLY RESPECT HIM BECAUSE HE FELT PASSIONATE ENOUGH TO HAVE TO STAND UP IN FRONT OF SIX HUNDRED PEOPLE TO VOICE HIS OPINION.

JESS>> AND SO DID ROGER EBERT.

JUSTIN LIN>> HE DID AND, YOU KNOW, HE TOTALLY DISAGREED WITH HIM. I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH HIM, BUT I RESPECT HIS OPINION. THE THING IS, I THINK NOWADAYS WE WATCH MOVIES AND THINGS TEND TO GET WRAPPED UP IN NINETY MINUTES.

JESS>> BUT EBERT QUICKLY CAME TO YOUR DEFENSE.

JUSTIN LIN>> HE DEFINITELY DID AND HE PUT EVERYTHING IN PERSPECTIVE, I THINK. THAT WAS THE BEST THING. ASIDE FROM DEFENDING THE FILM, I THINK HE PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT ANOTHER CLIP FROM THE FILM. THIS IS SOME OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS HANGING OUT AND TALKING ABOUT COLLEGE WHEN THEY GET A PHONE CALL. LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) A DEAD BODY WITH A CELL PHONE THAT'S STILL RINGING.

JESS>> WHAT ARE ASIANS SAYING ABOUT THIS MOVIE?

JUSTIN LIN>> I THINK ANYTIME YOU'RE TRYING TO CHALLENGE A LABEL, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO CREATE DISCOURSE. YOU KNOW, THE FILM HAS BEEN OUT FOR TWO WEEKS IN LIMITED RELEASE AND IT'S BEEN A HUGE ASIAN-AMERICAN TURNOUT. EVERY ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE AND GETTING PEOPLE OUT THERE BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF TIMES, WE AS A COMMUNITY FALL INTO THE MODEL MINORITY MYTH. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THINK OF POSITIVE AS, WELL, IF WE MAKE A FILM, WE HAVE TO BE FLAWLESS AND EVERYONE HAS TO BE PERFECT PEOPLE ON SCREEN. BUT NO, I THINK THAT IT'S EMPOWERING FOR US TO SAY, LOOK, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO EXPLORE THESE ISSUES THAT ARE PERTINENT TO ALL OF US. THEY MIGHT BE HARD TO DEAL WITH AND THEY MIGHT RAISE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR DIALOG, BUT THAT IS POSITIVE.

JESS>> WELL, THE SUBJECT OF ASIAN GANGS IS NOT EXACTLY A NEW ONE, AT LEAST IN NEWSPRINT. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY REPORTS OF IT AND, IN ORANGE COUNTY WHERE YOU'VE GROWN UP, IT'S A REAL PROBLEM.

JUSTIN LIN>> IT IS A REAL PROBLEM. I THINK THAT'S WHY, WHEN I TOOK OUT THE TEN CREDIT CARDS TO MAKE THIS FILM, I REALLY HAD TO ASK MYSELF WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME. THESE ISSUES ARE VERY DEFINITELY CLOSE TO ME AND I THINK THEY'RE IMPORTANT TO ALL OF US.

JESS>> WORST OF ALL, YOU HAD TO SELL YOUR PICKUP TOO (LAUGHTER).

JUSTIN LIN>> YEAH, I HAD TO DO A LOT OF THINGS (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> BUT AS A FILMMAKER, DO YOU AGREE WITH THOSE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT FILMMAKERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE PART OF AN ETHNIC MINORITY, HAVE A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO YOUR ETHNIC GROUP OR NOT AT ALL?

JUSTIN LIN>> I THINK IF I HAVE ANY RESPONSIBILITY, IT'S TO BE EMPOWERED AND BE THE BEST FILMMAKER I CAN BE. YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF AGENDAS THAT ARE ALWAYS FLOATING AROUND AND THEY DO GET MISCONSTRUED. BUT I THINK THE FACT THAT, IF I MAKE A FILM THAT I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT, THAT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE POSITIVE.

JESS>> AND YOUR MOTHER AND DAD'S RESTAURANT IN ANAHEIM, WHAT ARE YOUR FOLKS SAYING?

JUSTIN LIN>> WELL, I THINK THE BUSINESS IS DOING BETTER NOW (LAUGHTER). I MEAN, I THINK THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS WITH ME. YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE FROM DAY ONE AND IT'S GREAT TO GO BACK, YOU KNOW, HOME AND TO SEE EVERYBODY. AND THE FACT THAT THE FILM IS ACTUALLY PLAYING DOWN THE STREET, THAT'S GREAT.

JESS>> THEY SENT YOU TO FILM SCHOOL. A GOOD INVESTMENT, HUH?

JUSTIN LIN>> (LAUGHTER) YEAH.

VAL>> JUSTIN LIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH. AGAIN, THE MOVIE IS "BETTER LUCK TOMORROW". IT IS PLAYING AT SELECTED THEATERS. AND A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OR HEAR AUDIO OF OUR PROGRAMS ON OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> AND THAT'S OUR BROADCAST FOR THIS EVENING. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS AND GOOD NIGHT.

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