4/24/03

LC030424

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> THE MOST POWERFUL WOMAN IN LOS ANGELES YOU’VE NEVER MET. SHE’S A MEXICAN DIPLOMAT WHO SPEAKS SOFTLY BUT CARRIES A BIG STICK.

MARTHA LARA>> IF YOU HAVE THE DEMAND HERE FOR OUR WORKERS AND WE HAVE THE WORKERS THAT NEED TO WORK, I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ARRANGE SOMETHING WHERE THEY ARE PROTECTED BY THE LAW, WHERE THEY WOULDN’T HAVE TO BE HERE UNDOCUMENTED.

VAL>> AND THEN, NASA’S NEW EFFORT TO PUT A TEACHER INTO SPACE, BUT CAN THEY OVERCOME THE TRAGEDIES THAT HAVE LEFT THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM IN DOUBT?

JESS>> PLUS, THE WHEELING AND DEALING OF HOLLYWOOD AS EXPLAINED BY A MASTER OF BOTH, PRODUCER PETER GUBER.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> SHE’S A VOICE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO KEEP SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA RUNNING.

JESS>> MEXICAN GARDENERS AND JANITORS KNOW HER NAME, BUT SO DO MOVIE STARS. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT MARTHA LARA, THE WOMAN WHO PRESIDES OVER MEXICO’S CONSULATE IN LOS ANGELES. SHE HAS MORE CONSTITUENTS THAN THE MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES AND, AS TONI GUINYARD REPORTS, SHE’S NOT AFRAID TO SPEAK OUT FOR THEM EVEN WHEN IT MAKES SOME AMERICANS ANGRY.

MARTHA LARA>> I’M A LITTLE GOVERNOR. I’M A LITTLE GOVERNOR WITHOUT THE MONEY OR THE BUDGET THAT A GOVERNOR HAS.

TONI GUINYARD>> MARTHA LARA LOOKS EVERY BIT THE POLITICIAN, WORKING THE CROWD OUTSIDE HER OFFICE, MEETING AND GREETING HER CONSTITUENTS. SHE IS THE CONSUL GENERAL OF MEXICO, A FAMILIAR FACE TO MOST IN L.A.’S LARGE MEXICAN IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY.

MARTHA LARA>> THEY WASH DISHES AND THEY SERVE TABLES AND THEY TAKE CARE OF CHILDREN AND THEY TAKE CARE OF THE ELDERLY AND THEY FIX THE GARDENS AND THEY’RE THE JANITORS AT NIGHT WORKING IN THE DOWNTOWN OFFICES. THEY ARE VERY HARD-WORKING PEOPLE. THE ONLY THING THEY WANT TO DO IS WORK.

[FILM CLIP]

MARTHA LARA>> I HAVE SEVERAL MILLION MEXICANS THAT I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR AND I HAVE TO LOOK AFTER THEM, TAKE CARE OF THEM, TEND TO THEIR NEEDS AND HELP THEM AT EVERY SITUATION.

TONI GUINYARD>> AND THERE ARE MANY SITUATIONS. EVERY PERSON HERE HAS AN ISSUE OR A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND THE AMBASSADOR BELIEVES IT’S HER RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SO. BUT HER MANNER OF GETTING THE JOB DONE HAS RESULTED IN BOTH PRAISE AND CRITICISM. SOME IMMIGRATION REFORM ADVOCATES CRITICIZE LARA’S SUPPORT OF A MEXICAN ID CARD DISTRIBUTED BY THE CONSULATE TO MEXICANS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES. MANY OF THE MORE THAN ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE WHO COME TO THE CONSULATE EVERY DAY ARE HERE TO APPLY FOR AN ID.

MARTHA LARA>> IT’S GOOD TO KNOW WHO’S OUT THERE. AND A PERSON WHO IS WILLING TO COME IN, GIVE HIS NAME, HIS ADDRESS, HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, A SECONDARY ID, IN ORDER TO GET A MEXICAN ID, THAT MEANS THAT THE PERSON IS NOT HIDING ANYTHING.

[FILM CLIP]

MARTHA LARA>> OUR PEOPLE SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND GIVEN THE LEGAL STATUS OF THEY’RE ALREADY HERE. WHY? BECAUSE THEY’RE WORKING VERY HARD. WE HAVE VERY HARD WORKERS. I’VE NEVER SEEN MEXICAN BEGGARS ON THE STREETS.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE WORK DONE BY THE CONSUL GENERAL HAS NOT GONE UNNOTICED BY VISITING MEXICAN OFFICIALS. THEY COME TO SEE FOR THEMSELVES WHAT’S HAPPENING AT THE LOS ANGELES CONSULATE.

JUAN MANUEL GOMEZ ROBLETO>> THIS IS A NORMAL DAY. THIS IS A ROUTINE DAY. THIS IS A REGULAR DAY. I WAS AMAZED. THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY IN LOS ANGELES IS BY FAR THE LARGEST MEXICAN COMMUNITY IN THE STATES CONCENTRATED IN ONE SINGLE COUNTY, SO IT’S VERY IMPORTANT. IT’S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

TONI GUINYARD>> JUAN MANUEL GOMEZ ROBLETO IS THE LEGAL ADVISOR TO THE SECRETARY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS IN MEXICO. HE STOPPED SHORT OF SAYING THE CONSUL GENERAL USES HER POWER TO GET HER JOB DONE.

JUAN MANUEL GOMEZ ROBLETO>> I WOULDN’T SAY THAT IT IS POLITICAL POWER. I WOULD SAY THAT YOU CAN MEASURE IT IN TERMS OF INFLUENCE.

MARTHA LARA>> WHEN YOU’RE POWERFUL, YOU’RE PROBABLY WANTING TO USE THAT POWER IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND WHEN YOU’RE JUST AWARE THAT YOU HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THE AUTHORITIES AND WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THEN YOU’RE ABLE TO HELP WITHOUT ABUSING PERHAPS WHAT POWER IMPLIES.

TONI GUINYARD>> IMPLIED OR NOT, THE AMBASSADOR DEMANDS ATTENTION AND DOESN’T HESITATE TO VOICE CONCERNS. SHE DID SO DURING A CONSULAR EVENT WELCOMING LAPD CHIEF, WILLIAM BRATTON.

MARTHA LARA>> “ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WORRIES OUR PEOPLE VERY, VERY MUCH IS RACIAL PROFILING. COULD YOU TELL US YOUR STAND AND THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN TO YOUR OFFICERS REGARDING THIS?”

TONI GUINYARD>> IN HER OWN STYLE AND IN HER OWN WAY, SHE’S ALSO TAKEN ON OTHER CITY ISSUES THAT IMPACT MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS. LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, ED REYES, HAS WORKED WITH THE CONSUL GENERAL IN THE PAST AND ANTICIPATES WORKING WITH HER IN THE FUTURE.

ED REYES>> SHE HAS HER HANDS ON THE PULSE OF HER COUNTRY, OF MEXICO, BUT SHE HAS A FEELING FOR WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE FEELING HERE. IF WE CAN ENHANCE OUR ECONOMIC RELATIONSHIPS, I THINK SHE HAS THE ABILITY TO ARTICULATE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.

TONI GUINYARD>> RIGHT NOW, HER FOCUS IS ON PUSHING FOR A CHANGE IN IMMIGRATION LAWS.

MARTHA LARA>> WHY NOT GIVE THEM THE PLACE THAT THEY DESERVE? YOU CAN’T DO WITHOUT THEM. LET’S RECOGNIZE WHAT THEY ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THIS ECONOMY AND TO THIS SOCIETY.

JUAN MANUEL GOMEZ ROBLETO>> THEY PERFORM A VERY USEFUL WORK. THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY OF THE STATE, TO THE WEALTH OF THE STATE, AND THEY SHOULD BE IN A POSSIBILITY OF LIVING LIKE ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE COUNTRY.

TONI GUINYARD>> THAT’S JUST ONE GOAL OF THE CONSUL GENERAL, A WOMAN WHO RECOGNIZES THE POTENTIAL OF HER RELATIONSHIPS WITH STATE AND LOCAL POLICY MAKERS.

MARTHA LARA>> SOMETIMES THEY WANT OUR SUPPORT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT, IF THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE MEXICAN CONSULATE, THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF A LARGE IMPORTANT PART OF THE COMMUNITY. BUT I GUESS THAT’S WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT WISE AND JUST KNOW THAT YOU CAN BE USEFUL BUT NOT USED.

JESS>> MARTHA LARA RECENTLY TOLD THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT REPRESENTING MEXICO IN LOS ANGELES FILLS HER WITH ADRENALIN. HER CONSTITUENCY HERE INCLUDES NEARLY FIVE MILLION PEOPLE AND THAT’S THE LARGEST GROUP OF MEXICAN CITIZENS LIVING OUTSIDE MEXICO CITY.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, FLYING THE OLD FLAG OF SOUTH VIETNAM. THE COUNTRY NO LONGER EXISTS, BUT THE FLAG STILL TRIGGERS DEEP FEELINGS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

>> THE TIMING OF IT COULD NOT BE BETTER SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ARE IN A STATE OF WAR AGAINST IRAQ AND THE ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS IRAQ, IN MY OPINION AND IN THE OPINIONS OF MANY OTHER VIETNAMESE, IT’S NO DIFFERENT THAN THE COMMUNIST REGIME.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF LAST NIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES “WHAT DO YOU THINK?” POLL: HOUSING, EIGHT PERCENT; OPEN SPACE/PARKS: NINETY-TWO PERCENT. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG TO WEIGH IN ON A NEW QUESTION TOMORROW.

JESS>> MANY MAY HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF AMERICA’S SPACE PROGRAM, BUT NASA IS NOT AMONG THAT NUMBER. IN FACT, THE AGENCY IS MOVING AHEAD WITH WHAT MAY SEEM A BOLD IDEA. THEY’RE REVIVING THE NOTION OF PUTTING A TEACHER INTO SPACE.

VAL>> BUT NASA STILL HAS A FEW THINGS TO OVERCOME. FIRST, THERE’S THE RECENT COLUMBIA SHUTTLE TRAGEDY AND THEN THERE’S THE MEMORY OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FIRST TEACHER ASTRONAUT, CHRISTA MCAULIFFE, SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO.

NARRATOR>> “JANUARY 28, 1986. A CREW OF SEVEN ASTRONAUTS PREPARED FOR LIFTOFF ABOARD THE SPACE SHUTTLE CHALLENGER. THE WEATHER WAS UNUSUALLY COLD. ICE KEPT FORMING ON THE LAUNCH PAD.
>> “T MINUS TEN, NINE, EIGHT, SEVEN, SIX -- WE HAVE MAIN ENGINE START -- FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE, AND LIFTOFF. LIFTOFF OF THE TWENTY-FIFTH SPACE SHUTTLE MISSION AND IT HAS CLEARED THE TOWER!”

NARRATOR>> “NO ONE COULD TELL THAT HOT GASES WERE LEAKING FROM THE SIDE OF ONE OF THE SOLID ROCKET BOOSTERS.”

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON. SHE IS NASA’S ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR FOR EDUCATION AND IS PART OF THE NEW EFFORT TO PUT A TEACHER INTO SPACE. THIS IS A REAL UNDERTAKING FOR YOU CONSIDERING THE PAST HISTORY OF NASA, BUT YOU’RE ENCOURAGED?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> ABSOLUTELY, I AM. I'M TRULY ENCOURAGED BECAUSE I THINK THIS WHOLE PROGRAM, THE EDUCATOR ASTRONAUT PROGRAM, THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING NOW IS AN EFFORT TO ENGAGE, INSPIRE AND GET OUR NATION'S SCHOOL CHILDREN MOTIVATED IN TERMS OF SCIENCE, MATH, ENGINEERING AND TECHNOLOGY.

JESS>> IN FACT, THAT TEACHER IS GOING TO BE SELECTED SHORTLY, ISN'T IT?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> ABSOLUTELY. WE ARE NOW IN THE PROCESS OF HAVING STUDENTS NOMINATE THEIR TEACHERS, TEACHER NOMINATING TEACHERS, OR JUST FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS NOMINATING TEACHERS. THE DEADLINE IS APRIL 30, WHICH IS COMING UP ON US VERY SOON.

VAL>> BUT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR CERTAIN QUALIFICATIONS. FIRST, THEY HAVE TO BE IN GOOD PHYSICAL SHAPE AND YOU PREFER THEY DO HAVE A SCIENCE OR MATH BACKGROUND?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> YES. WE ARE ALSO LOOKING FOR TEACHERS IN THE K THROUGH TWELVE ENVIRONMENT. IN THE PAST, TEACHERS IN UNIVERSITY SETTINGS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF OUR ASTRONAUT CORPS AND BEEN ALLOWED TO APPLY FOR THE ASTRONAUT CORPS. NOW WE'RE SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR TEACHERS IN THE K THROUGH TWELVE ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE THEY CAN MAKE THE NATURAL CONNECTIONS WITH OUR CHILDREN IN THE K THROUGH TWELVE ENVIRONMENT IN OUR NATION'S CLASSROOMS.

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO CAN GET THE STUDENTS MOTIVATED, INTERESTED AND INSPIRED. THEY'RE THE DIRECT CONNECTIONS WITH THOSE CHILDREN, SO NOW WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE K THROUGH TWELVE TEACHERS. THE REQUIREMENTS ARE THAT THEY WILL HAVE, OF COURSE, THEY DO HAVE EDUCATION DEGREES, BUT THEY MUST HAVE A CONCENTRATION OF HOURS IN MATH, SCIENCE, ENGINEERING OR TECHNOLOGY JUST AS WE WOULD LOOK FOR IN OTHER ASTRONAUTS.

JESS>> SO THIS TEACHER IS NOT GOING TO BE JUST AN OBSERVER?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> NO. THIS IS QUITE DIFFERENT. WHEN WE HAD OUR TEACHER IN SPACE PROGRAM, THE APPLICATION, WE POOLED FOR TEACHERS, INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE ACTUALLY TEACHERS. NOW THE TEACHERS THAT WE'RE SEEKING WILL GO THROUGH ALL OF THE TRAINING. THEY WILL BECOME FULL-FLEDGED MEMBERS OF THE ASTRONAUT CORPS. THEY WILL GO THROUGH ALL OF THE RIGORS THAT THE TRADITIONAL ASTRONAUTS HAVE GONE THROUGH AND, THIS TIME, THEY WILL BE CLASSIFIED AS MISSION SPECIALISTS.

VAL>> AND HOW LONG IS THAT TRAINING? HOW INTENSE IS THAT?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> IT'S AT LEAST MORE THAN A YEAR.

VAL>> MORE THAN A YEAR?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> YES, YES. THERE IS EXTENSIVE TRAINING THAT'S INVOLVED AND, AS YOU MAY COME TO KNOW, THEY ARE DOING ALL OF THE TRAINING, THE RIGORS IN TERMS OF THE SURVIVALIST TRAINING SHOULD THEY HAVE TO EJECT OVER LAND OR OVER WATER. THEY'RE TRAINING IN TERMS OF REALLY BECOMING MISSION SPECIALISTS.

JESS>> AND TRAINING TO DEAL WITH WEIGHTLESSNESS.

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> WEIGHTLESSNESS, ABSOLUTELY. THAT IS THE ENVIRONMENT IN SPACE, SO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO DO THAT AS WELL.

VAL>> NOW HOW MANY APPLICATIONS DO YOU THINK YOU WILL GET? BECAUSE LAST TIME, YOU GOT OVER TEN THOUSAND APPLICATIONS.

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> YES. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE NOT CERTAIN. WE THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO BE -- WE'RE ENCOURAGED BY THE NUMBERS. WE HAVE ALLOWED INDIVIDUALS TO NOMINATE TEACHERS. WE HAVE RECEIVED OVER EIGHT THOUSAND NOMINATIONS FOR A TOTAL OF FOUR THOUSAND NOMINEES. WE HAVE WHOLE CLASSES NOMINATE THEIR TEACHERS, SO AN INDIVIDUAL MAY BE NOMINATED MORE THAN ONCE. SO WITH OVER FOUR THOUSAND NOMINEES, WE'RE ENCOURAGED.

JESS>> AND WHEN WILL THIS TEACHER GO INTO SPACE?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> WELL, THE ORIGINAL -- WE WERE PLANNING TO FLY OUR FIRST TEACHER IN SPACE WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN BARBARA MORGAN IN NOVEMBER 2003 OF THIS YEAR. OF COURSE, THE TIMETABLES HAVE ALL CHANGED NOW, SO IT'S GOING TO BE DEPENDENT UPON WHEN WE RETURN TO FLIGHT.

VAL>> AND WHAT MORE ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? I MEAN, OF COURSE, YOU HAVE TO MEET THIS SORT OF QUALITATIVE CRITERIA, SO MANY YEARS AND SO FORTH, BUT THERE MUST BE SOMETHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO IN THE END RISE OUT OF THOUSANDS OF APPLICATIONS TO BE THE ONE YOU CHOOSE.

JESS>> NERVES OF STEEL, FOR STARTERS (LAUGHTER).

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> (LAUGHTER) ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

VAL>> WILLING TO TRAVEL (LAUGHTER).

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> AND THAT SPIRIT OF EXPLORATION, INNOVATION AND JUST ONE OF THAT WHOLE DESIRE AND INTEREST OF SPACE. BUT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING FOR TEACHERS THAT WE SAY THAT ARE HIGHLY QUALIFIED. WE'RE HAVING THEM TO RESPOND TO ESSAY QUESTIONS AND THEN WE'RE HAVING A BLUE RIBBON PANEL HELP US IN TERMS OF IDENTIFYING THOSE OUTSTANDING CHARACTERISTICS OF WHAT MAKES FOR A GOOD TEACHER. WE'RE ASKING TEACHERS TO HELP US DO THAT. IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS TYPES THAT ARE GOING TO IDENTIFY THAT, BUT WE'RE HAVING THE EDUCATION COMMUNITY VALIDATE WHAT MAKES FOR A GOOD TEACHER.

JESS>> YOU, IN FACT, IN YOUR PRESENT ROLE WITH NASA, ARE A TEACHER YOURSELF?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> I HAVE BEEN IN EDUCATION FOR MORE THAN THIRTY YEARS, TEACHING AND ADMINISTRATION, SO COMING TO NASA, I WAS SERVING AS PRESIDENT OF A COLLEGE IN HOUSTON, TEXAS AND I'VE BEEN WITH NASA NOW FOR ROUGHLY SIX MONTHS, BUT IN EDUCATION FOR THIRTY YEARS. YES, I HAVE BEEN A TEACHER.

VAL>> SO YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THIS TEACHER THAT HAS THE RIGHT STUFF --

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> -- THE RIGHT STUFF, YES.

VAL>> SO YOU'RE GOING TO START WITH THOUSANDS OF APPLICATIONS. IN THE END, HOW MANY WILL BECOME FINALISTS?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> WE ARE HOPING TO HAVE ROUGHLY THREE TO SIX TEACHERS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO IDENTIFY AS EDUCATOR ASTRONAUTS. WE'RE DOING INITIAL SCREENING IN WASHINGTON WHERE WE ARE JUST BASICALLY EVALUATING, DOING THE ELECTRONIC SCREENING AND LOOKING AT DO THEY HAVE THE CREDENTIALS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THE THREE YEARS' TEACHING EXPERIENCE WITHIN THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

THEN WE WILL IDENTIFY THOSE HIGHLY-QUALIFIED TEACHERS AND THEN WE ARE PLANNING TO SHIFT BETWEEN TWO HUNDRED TO THREE HUNDRED APPLICATIONS DOWN TO JSC AND THOSE APPLICATIONS WILL BECOME A PART OF THE REGULAR ASTRONAUT POOL. THEN THE SELECTION PROCESS WILL BE TURNED OVER TO JSC AND THEY WILL SCREEN THEM JUST AS THEY DO ALL OF THEIR ASTRONAUTS.

VAL>> INTENSE.

JESS>> AND THE COLUMBIA DISASTER HAS NOT DAMPENED YOUR ENTHUSIASM OR THE ADMINISTRATION'S ENTHUSIASM FOR SPACE FLIGHT?

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> WELL, YOU KNOW, COLUMBIA HAPPENED WHEN I WAS IN THE JOB ALL OF THREE MONTHS. OF COURSE, IT DOES MAKE YOU GIVE PAUSE BECAUSE YOU REALLY COME TO APPRECIATE THE RISK IN ALL OF THIS. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- I HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO CHALLENGER FAMILIES AS WELL AS COLUMBIA FAMILIES. THEY ARE VERY ADAMANT, VERY RESOLUTE, IN TERMS OF THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT THIS AND THAT IS THAT WE WILL HONOR THEIR LEGACY.

HONORING THEIR LEGACY MEANS THAT WE WILL NOT PUT THE PROGRAM ON HOLD. WE WILL NOT BURY THE PROGRAM. THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS DID NOT DIE IN VAIN. THEY UNDERSTOOD THE RISKS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN ALL OF THIS, SO THIS MISSION CONTINUES. THAT IS WHAT BOTH FAMILY MEMBERS ARE SAYING AND I'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT WITH THE CHALLENGER FAMILIES AND COLUMBIA FAMILIES. IT'S ALL ABOUT HONORING THEIR LEGACY.

VAL>> ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON FROM NASA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING WITH US AND LETTING US KNOW WHAT LIES AHEAD FOR SOME VERY SPECIAL TEACHER.

ADENA WILLIAMS LOSTON>> THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> IT'S THE LATEST CRAZE ON TELEVISION. NO ONE CAN ARGUE WITH THE RATINGS, BUT PATT SAYS SOMETIMES REALITY TV IS A LITTLE TOO REAL. THAT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> SOMETIMES YOU SWITCH ON THE TV THESE DAYS AND YOU'VE GOT TO BE WONDERING EXACTLY WHAT IT IS YOU'RE WATCHING, A TV TALK SHOW OR "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED". THE LATEST SHOW IS FROM FOX TV. THAT NETWORK MADE GREAT CAPITAL BY HAMMERING AWAY AT BILL CLINTON AND HIS ADMINISTRATION AND IT'S NOW SET TO MAKE GREAT PROFITS BY HIRING CLINTON'S PARTNER IN OFFENSE SEX, MONICA LEWINSKY. LEWINSKY HOSTS A NEW DATING SHOW CALLED "MR. PERSONALITY", ALTHOUGH IT'S HER NAME AND PERSONALITY THAT ARE PROBABLY THE REAL REASON THE SHOW EVEN EXISTS.

BUT WAIT. THERE'S THIS TOO. A TEXAS-BASED TV NETWORK MAY MARKET ITS OWN REALITY SHOW, AN UNSCRIPTED SERIES STARRING O.J. SIMPSON. SIMPSON WAS ACQUITTED BY A CRIMINAL JURY OF MURDERING HIS EX-WIFE AND HER FRIEND AND FOUND LIABLE BY A CIVIL JURY FOR THE SAME TWO MURDERS. SOME AMERICANS LOOK UPON HIM AS A MORAL LEPER. SOME ASK FOR HIS AUTOGRAPH. BUT O.J. SAID TODAY THAT HE HAS NO PLANS FOR SUCH A SHOW, BUT MIGHT -- GET THIS -- CONSIDER DOING COLOR COMMENTARY FOR THE WIFE MURDER TRIAL OF ROBERT BLAKE.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE IS THAT FAME AND INFAMY ARE BECOMING THE SAME THING AND THAT THING IS COMMERCE. IT NO LONGER MATTERS WHETHER YOU'RE DOING GOOD. JUST GET ON THE AIR AND YOU'LL DO WELL. BETWEEN BOOKING A SHOW HOSTED BY GANDHI OR BY HEIDI FLEISS, YOU CAN BET THAT FLEISS WOULD GET THE GIG AND GANDHI THE HEAVE-HO.

IT'S MORE BRAZEN, BUT IT CERTAINLY ISN'T NEW. THOSE TWO SUBVERTERS OF THE CONSTITUTION, OLIVER NORTH AND GORDON LIDDY -- NORTH, THE WHITE HOUSE AIDE CONVICTED OF OBSTRUCTING CONGRESS, ACCEPTING AN ILLEGAL GRATUITY AND DESTROYING SECRET DOCUMENTS. HIS CONVICTIONS WERE OVERTURNED AND HE'S SINCE PARLAYED THE AFFAIR INTO A RADIO TALK SHOW AND A JOB AT FOX NEWS.

AND LIDDY, THE WATERGATE BURGLAR, USED DRAWINGS OF PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON FOR TARGET PRACTICE AND GAVE ADVICE ON THE BEST WAY TO SHOOT FEDERAL AGENTS ON HIS NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO SHOW. IF THE IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER, THE MAN WHO COULD SAY STRAIGHT-FACED THAT "THERE ARE NO AMERICAN TROOPS WITHIN A HUNDRED MILES OF BAGHDAD" AND THAT "LYING IS ILLEGAL IN IRAQ", IF HE'D ONLY KNOWN ALL OF THIS, HE MIGHT NOT HAVE HANGED HIMSELF, AS RUMOR HAS IT, AND INSTEAD JUST SURRENDERED TO WAIT OUT A GOOD OFFER FROM A NETWORK.

DURING THE ARMY MCCARTHY HEARINGS, A TRUE REALITY TV SHOW, ARMY LAWYER JOSEPH WELCH STOOD UP TO SENATOR JOE MCCARTHY'S BULLYING BY ASKING, "HAVE YOU NO SHAME, SIR?" SO HOW ABOUT IT, AMERICA. HAVE WE NO SHAME OR JUST NO TASTE?

JESS>> HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A MOVIE AND WONDERED HOW DID THAT EVER GET MADE? OUR NEXT GUEST HAS SOME ANSWERS. HE'S A THIRTY YEAR VETERAN OF HOLLYWOOD MOVIEMAKING. ALL TOLD, HIS FILMS HAVE EARNED MORE THAN $3 BILLION -- WITH A "B" -- $3 BILLION DOLLARS.

VAL>> PETER GUBER IS THE FORMER HEAD OF COLUMBIA AND SONY STUDIOS AND THE FOUNDER OF MANDALAY ENTERTAINMENT. HIS WORKS INCLUDE THE ACCLAIMED "MIDNIGHT EXPRESS". IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST FILMS PRODUCED AS AN INDEPENDENT PRODUCER. THEN THERE WAS "BATMAN" WHICH TURNED INTO A LUCRATIVE FRANCHISE UNDER THE PARTNERSHIP OF JON PETERS. MORE RECENTLY, HE HAS PRODUCED "THE SCORE" STARRING MARLON BRANDO, ROBERT DENIRO AND EDWARD NORTON.

JESS>> NOW PETER GUBER HAS CO-WRITTEN THE BOOK THAT PUTS SOME OF HIS KNOW-HOW INTO PRINT. THE BOOK IS CALLED "SHOOT OUT: SURVIVING FAME AND MISFORTUNE IN HOLLYWOOD". PETER GUBER JOINS US NOW.

PETER GUBER>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> WHY THE TITLE "SHOOT OUT"?

PETER GUBER>> WELL, BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT THE CONFLICT IN DRAMA AND THE SCREEN IS THE MIRROR OF THE CONFLICT IN DRAMA BEHIND THE SCREEN, BEHIND THE MAKING OF IT, AND THAT MOST PEOPLE FEEL THAT CONFLICT IS BAD. IT'S INEVITABLE WHEN YOU HAVE CREATIVE FORCES CLASHING TO TRY TO CREATE AN ULTIMATE PROJECT, AN ULTIMATE FILM, WHEN THE VISION MAKER IS HOLDING THAT VISION TIGHT AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS TRYING TO PROPRIORITIZE THAT, TO TRY TO GET CONTROL OF IT. THESE CONFLICTS ARE INEVITABLE. WE READ ABOUT THEM IN MAGAZINE SHOWS AND WE SEE THEM AND WE KNOW THAT THEY ARE INTERESTING TO US, BUT THEY ARE INEVITABLE AND THEY'RE PART OF THE LITANY OF WHAT HOLLYWOOD IS ABOUT.

JESS>> TALK ABOUT CREATIVE CONFLICT, HUH?

PETER GUBER>> YES, WELL, SOMETIMES IT TURNS INTO FINANCIAL CONFLICT AND SOMETIMES EVEN FISTICUFFS AND LEGAL CONFLICT (LAUGHTER), BUT INEVITABLY WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS "I'M IN CHARGE", SOMEBODY ELSE SAYS "NOT FOR NOW YOU'RE NOT". THAT'S AN ACTOR, A DIRECTOR, A WRITER, A PRODUCER. YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT CONFLICT. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE SHOOT OUTS ARE INEVITABLE. THE REAL ELEGANCE IN A SHOOT OUT IS NOBODY HAVING TO DOUBT YOUR POWER, BUT NOT HAVING TO SHOOT SOMEBODY AT THE SAME TIME.

VAL>> YOU EVEN MENTIONED THAT THE WORST RESOLUTION OF A SHOOT OUT WOULD BE AN EXECUTION.

PETER GUBER>> THAT'S RIGHT. SOME OF THEM SHOULD BE (LAUGHTER), BUT UNFORTUNATELY WE CAN'T DO THAT.

JESS>> WELL, NOW, WHO IS THE BOSS WHEN YOU'RE MAKING A MOVIE?

PETER GUBER>> WELL, HOLLYWOOD OPERATES BY THE GOLDEN RULE. HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES (LAUGHTER). ULTIMATELY THE STUDIO, WHICH IS THE FINANCIER AND DISTRIBUTOR, THEY HOLD THE BIGGEST CLUB. BUT ONCE THE FILM GETS ROLLING, IT'S INTERESTING. ALMOST NOTHING CAN STOP IT. DEATH, DEMISE, DIVORCE, ANY OF THE D'S, THE FILM KEEPS GOING.

BEFORE THAT, IT'S A VERY FRAGILE ENTERPRISE. ALMOST ANYTHING CAN STOP IT BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS FEARFUL OF MAKING THE FILM. I OFTEN SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO BE DYSLEXIC WHEN YOU MAKE A FILM. YOU HAVE TO SAY TO YOURSELF THAT "NO" MEANS "ON" AND YOU HAVE TO CONSTANTLY FACE THE NO'S OF THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO MAKE THE FILM. INEVITABLY THOUGH, ONCE THE FILM GETS ROLLING, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP.

VAL>> IT'S A MACHINE THAT RUNS ON ITS OWN. IN FACT, THAT'S WHY, WHEN THINGS GO WRONG, THE COSTS OVERRUNS START RUNNING UP AND THERE'S NO WAY TO PUT A BRAKE ON THINGS.

PETER GUBER>> WELL, ACTUALLY, MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THE CHANGE IN COSTS. THE AVERAGE FILM TODAY, THE AVERAGE MPA FILM, THE AVERAGE ONE LIKE THE FILM OF THIS MEETING HERE, COSTS ABOUT $65 MILLION DOLLARS. THEN WHEN YOU ADD PRINTS AND ADVERTISING FOR NORTH AMERICAN RELEASE, ANOTHER $30 MILLION DOLLARS IN INTEREST IN, JUST IN THE NORTH AMERICAN ARENA ALONE, IT'S $100 MILLION DOLLARS. SO WHEN A FILM IS GOING TO OPEN ON A FRIDAY NIGHT ON FOUR THOUSAND SCREENS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IT GIVES THE EXECUTIVES SPHINCTER ARREST (LAUGHTER). THEY GET VERY ANXIOUS. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THAT $100 MILLION?

JESS>> AND YOU'RE DEALING WITH STARS WHO ARE MAKING $20 MILLION OF THAT $100 MILLION.

PETER GUBER>> UNFORTUNATELY, MOST PEOPLE REALIZE THAT AND THEY TALK ABOUT IT. BUT THE TALENT POOL IS VERY INELASTIC AND IT'S SMALL AND THERE'S A REASON WHY THESE STUDIOS AND THESE COMPANIES PAY THE STARS. IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE TALENTED. IT'S BECAUSE IT IS A SCARCE RESOURCE. IT'S BECAUSE THEY --

JESS>> -- YOU'RE ALMOST WHISPERING THAT. YOU'RE RELUCTANT TO ADMIT IT, HUH?

PETER GUBER>> NO, IT'S BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM TO HEAR IT. THEY'LL WANT MORE THEN (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) HERE'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND, OKAY? IT COSTS $100 MILLION DOLLARS TO MAKE A MOVIE. AT THE SAME TIME, THERE ARE LIKE THESE REALLY GREAT LITTLE MOVIES THAT ARE COMING OUT, YOU KNOW, THE "BETTER LUCK TOMORROW" FOR $250,000, THAT DO GREAT STORYTELLING. A LOT OF THESE JUST SORT OF GRASSROOTS MOVIES, THEY DON'T COST $100 MILLION DOLLARS.

JESS>> BUT THEY DON'T DO GREAT BOX OFFICE?

VAL>> SOME OF THEM ARE DOING FINE.

PETER GUBER>> THEY DO WELL, BUT WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT IS, TODAY, THE INSTITUTIONS THAT CONTROL HOLLYWOOD ARE LARGE MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES, STOCKHOLDER COMPANIES, COMPANIES THAT EARN BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR GIANT, EXPEDIENTIAL PROFITS. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR FRANCHISE PICTURES. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR PICTURES TO PUT --

VAL>> -- LIKE "BATMAN". THAT ONE IS --

PETER GUBER>> -- OR "SPIDERMAN" OR A LOT OF MANS. "RAINMAN", ANYTHING WITH MANS SEEMS TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY (LAUGHTER). BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS, THEY NEED THESE FRANCHISE PICTURES BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO DO IS FUEL THEIR MERCHANDISING COMPANY, THEIR MUSIC COMPANY, THEIR TELEVISION COMPANY AND THEIR LOCOMOTIVES TO MOVE ALL THE REST OF THE PRODUCT. IT WOULD BE VERY HARD TO MAINTAIN 26,000 SCREENS IN AMERICA MAKING $200,000 COST FILMS.

JESS>> NOW YOU'VE BEEN IN THE FILM BUSINESS AND THE MUSIC BUSINESS FOR A LONG TIME. ARE YOU SURPRISED AT THE SUCCESS OF MOVIE MUSICALS AGAIN? "CHICAGO", IN PARTICULAR?

PETER GUBER>> WELL, WHAT IT IS, THE MOVIE GOD HAS A PERVERSE NATURE. JUST WHEN YOU THINK ONE GENRE IS OUT, IT SPRINKLES LITTLE PIXIE DUST AND IT'S A BIG HIT (LAUGHTER). I HEARD, FOR EXAMPLE, LAST YEAR THAT ALL PERIOD FILMS ARE OVER. NOBODY MAKES A PERIOD FILM. FIVE FILMS NOMINATED FOR BEST PICTURE, ALL PERIOD PICTURES. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE CONTRARIAN VIEW IN HOLLYWOOD.

YOU REALIZE THAT IT TAKES TWO OR THREE YEARS TO MAKE A FILM, SO IF YOU'RE TRYING TO IMITATE LAST YEAR'S HIT WITH THIS YEAR'S PICTURE, YOU'RE IN TROUBLE BECAUSE IT COMES OUT NEXT YEAR WHEN NOBODY WANTS THAT PICTURE. SO YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO TAKE RISKS. YOU HAVE TO BE NOT RISK-AVERSE. YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO PROVIDE REAL DERRING-DO IN THE DECISION-MAKING OF WHAT KIND OF FILMS TO UNDERTAKE.

VAL>> WE ONLY HAVE THIRTY SECONDS LEFT, BUT I WANTED TO QUOTE SOMETHING. YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE IN THE "EMOTIONAL TRANSPORTATION BUSINESS".

PETER GUBER>> RIGHT. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. I MEAN, PEOPLE GO INTO A MOVIE TO HAVE THEIR STATE CHANGED, TO BE SWEPT INTO ANOTHER PLACE, TO HAVE THOSE WORDS AND VISUAL IMAGES TAKE THEM TO A PLACE IN THEIR LIVES AND GEOGRAPHY THAT THEY CAN'T OTHERWISE GO. THAT'S WHAT THOSE WORDS AND THAT'S WHAT THOSE PICTURES DO. AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S NOT THE O'S AND ONES OF THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION, IT'S THE OOH'S AND AAH'S OF THE HEART THAT MOVE THE AUDIENCE.

JESS>> YOU ALSO SAY THAT ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATION ARE IMPORTANT TOO AND WE'RE OFF TO DANCE CLASS COMING UP (LAUGHTER). OUR THANKS TO PETER GUBER. THE BOOK IS CALLED "SHOOT OUT: SURVIVING FAME AND MISFORTUNE IN HOLLYWOOD". YOU CAN HEAR MORE FROM PETER GUBER AND HIS CO-AUTHOR, PETER BART, THIS WEEKEND. THEY'LL BE AT THE LOS ANGELES TIMES FESTIVAL OF BOOKS. FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK THE LOS ANGELES TIMES WEBSITE OR CALL THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN (1-800-LATIMES).

VAL>> AND A REMINDER, OF COURSE, THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OR HEAR AUDIO OF RECENT LIFE AND TIMES PROGRAMS. JUST GO TO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> AND THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

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