5/1/03

LC030501

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> IT’S CALLED THE PATRIOT ACT, BUT CRITICS SAY SPYING ON PEOPLES’ PRIVATE LIVES IS ANYTHING BUT PATRIOTIC.

STEPHEN F. ROHDE>> ATTORNEY GENERAL ASHCROFT SAID IF YOU DON’T VOTE FOR THE U.S.A. PATRIOT ACT, YOU’LL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NEXT TERRORIST ACT IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT’S NOT HOW OUR LAWS SHOULD BE MADE. THAT’S NOT HOW POLICY IN AMERICA SHOULD BE MADE.

VAL>> AND THEN WE’LL MEET SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA’S MOST ELIGIBLE MAYOR, BUT SOME OF HIS CONSTITUENTS WONDER WHY HE’S LOOKING FOR LOVE ON TELEVISION.

JESS>> PLUS, HE IS HALF THE LEGENDARY MUSIC DUO. WE’LL MEET SAM MOORE OF “SAM & DAVE”.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> KEEPING TABS ON THE BOOKS WE READ AND THE VIDEOS WE WATCH.

JESS>> IT’S ALL COVERED BY THE PATRIOT ACT, BUT IS IT TOO HIGH A PRICE TO PAY FOR SECURITY? THE PATRIOT ACT WAS CRAFTED TO GIVE AUTHORITIES AN IMPORTANT NEW TOOL FOR FIGHTING TERRORISM. BUT AS TONI GUINYARD REPORTS, SOME WORRY IT MAY ALSO OPEN THE DOOR FOR BIG BROTHER TO PEER INTO OUR PRIVATE LIVES.

TONI GUINYARD>> JUST SIX WEEKS AFTER THE 9/11 TERRORIST ATTACKS, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TOOK MEASURES THAT PROMISED TO BE A WAY OF CLOSING THE GAPS IN OUR NATION’S SECURITY. THE PUBLIC WANTED TO FEEL SAFE AGAIN AND EXPECTED PRESIDENT BUSH TO DO SOMETHING. CONGRESS TOOK ACTION BY PASSING THE U.S.A. PATRIOT ACT, A LAW GIVING MORE POWERS TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. WHAT SOME AMERICANS SEE AS LEGISLATION TO BETTER PROTECT US FROM FOREIGN ENEMIES, OTHERS SEE AS A LAW THAT GOES TOO FAR.

STEPHEN F. ROHDE>> I THINK IT WILL SHOCK MOST AMERICANS TO KNOW THAT, IN THE WAKE OF 9/11, IN OUR GRIEF, IN OUR HORROR, IN OUR HYSTERIA, CONGRESS PUSHED THROUGH A BILL SPONSORED BY THE ADMINISTRATION, PUSHED BY JOHN ASHCROFT, WHICH TRANSFORMS CRIMINAL LAW IN THIS COUNTRY AS NEVER BEFORE.

TONI GUINYARD>> STEPHEN ROHDE IS A CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER, AUTHOR AND PAST PRESIDENT OF THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CHAPTER OF THE ACLU. HE SAYS, WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE PATRIOT ACT AND MORE LEGISLATION TO COME, THE PUBLIC IS GIVING UP TOO MUCH OF ITS PRIVACY OUT OF FEAR.

STEPHEN F. ROHDE>> ATTORNEY GENERAL ASHCROFT SAID IF YOU DON’T VOTE FOR THE U.S.A. PATRIOT ACT, YOU’LL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NEXT TERRORIST ATTACK ON THIS COUNTRY. THAT’S NOT HOW OUR LAWS SHOULD BE MADE. THAT’S NOT HOW POLICY IN AMERICA SHOULD BE MADE, AND PEOPLE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY ARE BEGINNING TO ORGANIZE AND SPEAK OUT AGAINST THAT.

TONI GUINYARD>> THROUGHOUT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, MEMBERS OF THE GROUP “NEIGHBORS FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE” ARE BATTLING THE PATRIOT ACT ONE PERSON AT A TIME. SOME OF ITS MEMBERS FOUND THEIR ANTI-WAR VOICES PROTESTING DURING THE WAR IN IRAQ. NOW MEMBERS HAVE TURNED THEIR ATTENTION TO THE PATRIOT ACT AND ARE WORKING WITH THE CIVIL LIBERTIES DEFENSE COALITION TO COLLECT SIGNATURES ON PETITIONS.

STEPHEN FINE>> IT’S JUST A CONSTANT PROCESS AND THEN, WHEN YOU HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM, YOU BRING THEM ALL TO CITY HALL AND YOU PUT THEM DOWN ON THE CITY COUNCILPERSON’S DESK AND SAY WE’RE SERIOUS, WE’RE HERE AND WE WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS RESOLUTION PASSED.

TONI GUINYARD>> A RESOLUTION DEMANDING A REPEAL OF WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE THE MOST EXCESSIVE PROVISIONS IN THE PATRIOT ACT.

JUNE KUWATANI>> THERE ARE PROVISIONS THAT I’VE BEEN TOLD ARE GOOD, BUT TO THE EXTENT WHERE YOU CAN GO ONTO THE INTERNET AND FIND OUT EVERY WEBSITE WE’VE BEEN TO, TO GO INTO MY MEDICAL RECORDS, MY FINANCIAL RECORDS, MY EDUCATIONAL RECORDS, I FEEL THAT THAT IS A TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE INVASION OF SOMEONE’S INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY.

TONI GUINYARD>> THIS FIGHT IS A PUBLIC YET VERY PRIVATE, PERSONAL MISSION FOR JUNE KUWATANI.

JUNE KUWATANI>> HAVING PARENTS WHO WERE INTERNED DURING WORLD WAR TWO, BEING SECOND AND THIRD GENERATION AMERICANS OF JAPANESE DESCENT AND TO BE PROFILED IN SUCH A WAY AS TO BE CONSIDERED “ENEMIES” OF THE STATE WHEN THEY WERE LAW-ABIDING, HARD-WORKING CITIZENS WHO WERE PROUD TO BE AMERICAN AND WERE INCARCERATED DURING WORLD WAR TWO, MY PASSION IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT NEVER HAPPENS TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

TONI GUINYARD>> IF YOU LISTEN, PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THEIR INTERPRETATIONS OF HOW THE LAW COULD BE APPLIED AGAINST THE PUBLIC.

NICHOLAS MELE>> WELL, I THINK IT’S AN ACT THAT’S GONE TOO FAR. AS FAR AS I KNOW, ANYONE COULD COME INTO MY HOUSE RIGHT NOW AND SEARCH IT FOR NO REASON AND I DON’T LIKE THAT AT ALL.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE SANTA MONICA LIBRARY BOARD EVEN VOTED TO POST SIGNS EXPLAINING THAT, UNDER THE PATRIOT ACT --

KENNETH BREISCH>> -- THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO SUBPOENA ALL LIBRARY RECORDS, MEANING THAT THEY CAN INVESTIGATE THE BOOKS PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN OUT, WHAT SITES THEY’VE VISITED ON LIBRARY COMPUTERS. IT PUTS THE LIBRARIANS, I THINK, IN A VERY DIFFICULT POSITION. I KNOW THAT SOME PUBLIC LIBRARIES HAVE MADE THE DECISION TO DESTROY RECORDS AND SHRED INFORMATION, BUT WE HAVEN’T GONE TO THAT EXTENT YET.

TONI GUINYARD>> NOT YET, BUT AS PUBLIC PERCEPTIONS ABOUT THE PATRIOT ACT BECOME MORE VOCAL, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW WITH HIS THOUGHTS ON THE PATRIOT ACT IS LAW PROFESSOR AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, JIM HIRSEN.

JAMES HIRSEN>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

JESS>> I ASSUME YOU SUPPORT THE PATRIOT ACT.

JAMES HIRSEN>> WELL, I SUPPORT IT IN PART. I DO THINK THAT THERE IS SOME HEALTHY SKEPTICISM AND THAT’S WHAT CITIZENS ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SAID WE SHOULD HAVE ETERNAL VIGILANCE PARTICULARLY IN THE AREA OF THE SUNSET PROVISION. THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THIS ACT THAT SHOULD SORT OF BURN OUT OF THEIR OWN ACCORD AFTER THREE TO FIVE YEARS.

JESS>> SUNSET PROVISION MEANING THERE IS AN END?

JAMES HIRSEN>> THERE IS AN END AND THERE ARE SOME THAT NEED TO END. BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS HISTORICALLY. IF YOU LOOK AT IT HISTORICALLY, IT’S RELATIVELY MODEST. AT ANY TIME WHEN A COUNTRY GOES THROUGH A MAJOR CRISIS, A WAR, THERE IS ALWAYS THIS KIND OF REACTION. WE LOOK BACK TO LINCOLN SUSPENDING HABEAS CORPUS, TO WILSON’S ATTACK ON THE PRESS, FDR INTERNING THE JAPANESE.

I MEAN, NOTHING LIKE THIS IS HAPPENING HERE WITH THE PATRIOT ACT. ALL OF IT IS TIED TO WHAT TERRORISTS DO AND NATIONAL SECURITY. SO YOU LOOK AT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE PATRIOT ACT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CRITICS OF BOTH THE BUSH AND CLINTON ADMINISTRATIONS SAID IS THAT INTELLIGENCE AND LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE NOT SHARING INFORMATION, SO THE PATRIOT ACT CALLS FOR THE SHARING OF THAT INFORMATION. OTHER CRITICS TALK ABOUT OUR BORDERS AND IMMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION, AND THE PATRIOT ACT ADDRESSES THAT AS WELL.

VAL>> BUT I WANT TO GET TO SOME OF THE FEARS THAT WE HEARD EXPRESSED BY THE PEOPLE HERE.

JAMES HIRSEN>> SURE.

VAL>> THE GENTLEMAN WHO SAID THEY CAN COME INTO MY HOUSE AND SEARCH MY HOUSE WITHOUT ANY WARNING. TRUE?

JAMES HIRSEN>> NOT REALLY, NO. AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, OUR HOMES AND THINGS LIKE THE WEB. LOOK, WHAT THE PATRIOT ACT IS FOCUSING ON IS WHAT TERRORISTS DO. TERRORISTS USE RALLIES, TERRORISTS USE THE WEB AND THEY USE LIBRARIES. SO DOESN’T IT MAKE SENSE THAT, IF WE’RE GOING TO FIGHT TERRORISM, WE GIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT, UNDER JUDICIAL OVERSIGHT, THE POWER TO LOOK WHERE THE TERRORISTS ARE LURKING AND BE ABLE TO, JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, ATTEND RALLIES, TO BE ABLE TO SEARCH THE WEB AND TO BE ABLE TO USE LIBRARIES?

VAL>> BUT THE ARGUMENT IS THAT JUST BECAUSE I CHECK OUT A BOOK ON ISLAM DOESN’T MEAN THAT I’M A, YOU KNOW, A SYMPATHIZER WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN.

JAMES HIRSEN>> YEAH, BUT WE HAVE TO DISTINGUISH THIS BECAUSE, IN FACT, THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS BUILT INTO THE ACT. IT DEALS WITH THE SUBJECT OF FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AND THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE JUST CHECKING OUT A BOOK ON ISLAM WOULD BE SCRUTINIZED, I THINK, IS NOT REALLY REALISTIC. FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WAS TALK ON THE TAPE ABOUT HOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THE WEB AND EVERYWHERE THEY VISITED. THE ISP PROVIDERS -- AND, BY THE WAY, TERRORISTS DO USE THE WEB TO COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER -- SO THE ISP PROVIDERS ARE AUTHORIZED TO RELEASE INFORMATION WITHOUT LIABILITY ONLY IF IT’S AN EMERGENCY AND IT EFFECTS SERIOUS BODILY HARM OR DEATH.

SO THERE’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VIGILANCE AND HYPERBOLE AND I’M AFRAID THAT SOME OF THE REACTION ON THE PATRIOT ACT -- AND YOU HEARD EVEN LAW PROFESSORS SAY THE PATRIOT ACT AND SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL PROPOSALS -- THERE ARE SOME THINGS BEING FLOATED THAT ARE DANGEROUS. PATRIOT ACT II, THE TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS NETWORK, THAT MANY IN BOTH PARTIES ARE TRYING TO STOP. SO WE’VE GOT TO DISTINGUISH THAT FROM WHAT’S ALREADY BEEN PASSED.

JESS>> BIG PROBLEM FOR SOME IS THE FACT THAT WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING HOW MUCH OF IT IS BEING USED BECAUSE ATTORNEY GENERAL ASHCROFT WILL NOT PERMIT ANY DETAILS TO LEAK OUT ABOUT HOW OFTEN IT IS USED.

VAL>> THAT’S RIGHT. JIM HIRSEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE WITH YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

JAMES HIRSEN>> OH, MY PLEASURE.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, A PUBLIC SCHOOL THAT WORKS AND THE STUDENTS ARE GETTING THE KIND OF EDUCATION NORMALLY RESERVED FOR RICH KIDS.

>> THEY TEACH ABOVE YOUR GRADE LEVEL TO WHAT EVERYBODY CAN UNDERSTAND. WHEN YOU GO HOME, YOUR PARENTS ARE LIKE “WHAT DID YOU LEARN?” I’M LIKE, “OH, MOMMY, I LEARNED ALL THIS AND I LEARNED ALL THIS.”

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF LAST NIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES "WHAT DO YOU THINK?" POLL: THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT LIBRARY BOOKS I BORROW: AGREE, FIVE PERCENT, DISAGREE, NINETY-FIVE PERCENT. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG TO WEIGH IN ON A NEW QUESTION TOMORROW.

JESS>> REDONDO BEACH. GREAT CITY, BUT IT'S GETTING SOME NATIONAL ATTENTION AND NOT NECESSARILY THE KIND SOME OF ITS RESIDENTS WANT. THAT'S BECAUSE THE TOWN'S MAYOR HAS TAKEN HIS SEARCH FOR LOVE TO REALITY TV.

VAL>> MAYOR GREG HILL HAS BEEN ON "MEET MY FOLKS" AND "BLIND DATE". IT'S CLEAR HE'S HAVING FUN, BUT HE'S ALSO FLIRTING WITH CONTROVERSY. HERE'S A LOOK AT HIS HONOR'S RECENT APPEARANCE ON THE POPULAR TV SERIES, "BLIND DATE".

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> JOINING US NOW IS THE HONORABLE, SOME WOULD SAY MAYBE NOT SO HONORABLE, MAYOR GREG HILL OF REDONDO BEACH. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY HESITATION ABOUT GOING ON NATIONAL TV LIKE THIS?

GREG HILL>> WELL, OF COURSE, I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT TO KEEP THIS IN PERSPECTIVE. IT'S ENTERTAINMENT. THEY CALL IT REALITY TV. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW REAL IT REALLY IS (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> YOU'RE TAKING AN AWFUL LOT OF HEAT FOR THIS, THOUGH?

GREG HILL>> YEAH, I AM. I THINK IT'S KIND OF CURIOUS THAT I'VE BEEN TEN YEARS IN OFFICE AND ALL THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED AND, YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU GO ON A COUPLE OF WHAT ARE CONSIDERED NON-REAL REALITY TV SHOWS, REALITY-BASED, THEY CALL IT, AND GET NATIONAL ATTENTION. YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL IN GOOD FUN.

JESS>> WELL, LET ME QUOTE -- YOU'RE AWARE OF THIS. KINGS HARBOR CHURCH PASTOR, CHRIS CANNON, SAID "I WOULD BE EMBARRASSED FOR ANYBODY WHO WOULD BE IN A SHOWER WITH A WOMAN HE'D JUST MET RUBBING MUD ON EACH OTHER."

GREG HILL>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I KNOW CHRIS. IN FACT, TODAY WE SPENT TIME TOGETHER IN A NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER SERVICE. YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES PEOPLE KIND OF REACT TO THE PAPERS AND THINGS GET EDITED JUST LIKE IN A TELEVISION SHOW.

VAL>> SO YOU KNOW THE PERSON, IN OTHER WORDS, WHO MADE THAT CRITICISM?

GREG HILL>> ABSOLUTELY, AND WE'RE GOOD FRIENDS AND WE GET ALONG JUST FINE. I DON'T THINK --

JESS>> -- DID YOU WONDER WHO HE WAS PRAYING FOR AT THE NATIONAL PRAYER SERVICE? (LAUGHTER)

GREG HILL>> (LAUGHTER) I HOPE HE WAS PRAYING FOR ME AND EVERYBODY ELSE IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU KNOW, I DO THINK, THOUGH, WHAT ISN'T A LAUGHING MATTER IS THAT THERE'S SO MUCH ATTENTION DRAWN ON ME ON THIS SHOW. THERE'S STUFF GOING ON IN THIS STATE AND, IN THIS JOB AS MAYOR, I'M VERY SERIOUS ABOUT. WHAT ISN'T A LAUGHING MATTER IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW. WE'VE GOT A $35 BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT THAT COULD AFFECT EVERY SCHOOL, EVERY POLICE DEPARTMENT, STREETS, SEWERS. KIDS WILL BE MORTGAGED FOR GENERATIONS TO COME TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE, YET I GET NATIONAL ATTENTION ON A DATING SHOW.

JESS>> GRAY DAVIS MIGHT GET SOME RELIEF FROM ALL THIS PRESSURE, THEN, BY GOING ON A DATING SHOW (LAUGHTER).

GREG HILL>> (LAUGHTER) HE MAY OWE ME ONE HERE.

JESS>> THAT'S RIGHT. HE'S MARRIED NOW, THOUGH, AND YOU'RE NOT.

GREG HILL>> NO, I'M A SINGLE MAN, BUT I'M NOT LOOKING FOR LOVE ON TV. I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT.

JESS>> OH?

VAL>> BUT YOU HAD TO KNOW THAT THIS ATTENTION WAS GOING TO COME AND, IF YOU WANTED TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THE BUDGET, YOU PERHAPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING SOMETHING ELSE. SO WHY DID YOU GO ON, KNOWING THAT YOU'D BRING THIS KIND OF ATTENTION?

GREG HILL>> YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE QUITE THIS BIG A DEAL, TO BE TOTALLY HONEST WITH YOU.

JESS>> YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD JUST BE FUN, HUH?

GREG HILL>> YEAH, THERE ARE A LOT OF WRITERS, PRODUCERS, DIRECTORS THAT LIVE IN THE AREA, LIVE IN REDONDO. YOU KNOW, IN A WEAK MOMENT AT ONE OF OUR LOBSTER FESTS, I SAID OKAY, I'LL DO IT, BUT NO HOT TUBS. I MEAN, WE'LL SET SOME PARAMETERS HERE, WE'LL HAVE SOME FUN. OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IT TURNED INTO A MUCH BIGGER DEAL.

I THINK THAT'S KIND OF AN INTERESTING TESTIMONIAL ON HOW GOOD WE MUST HAVE IT IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE WE SPEND SO MUCH TIME WATCHING THESE THINGS, YET I'D SAY THERE ARE REAL ISSUES HERE THAT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH. I'M HOPING THAT, MAYBE THROUGH THIS NEW-FOUND NOTORIETY, I CAN DRAW A LITTLE ATTENTION TO SOME OF THE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

VAL>> THAT'S TRUE, BUT FIRST YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LIVE DOWN A CLIP LIKE THIS FROM "BLIND DATE". LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> DID YOU GET A CHANCE TO APPROVE THOSE CAPTIONS?

GREG HILL>> I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO, BUT I TOLD THEM TO BE NICE TO ME.

JESS>> AND THEY WERE?

GREG HILL>> THEY WERE PROBABLY BETTER TO ME THAN THEY COULD HAVE BEEN, YEAH (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO BUG YOU SOME MORE. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER CLIP. THIS IS FROM A DIFFERENT SHOW AND A DIFFERENT APPROACH. IT'S CALLED "MEET MY FOLKS" AND YOU HAD TO MEET THE CHILDREN OF THE WOMAN YOU WANTED TO DATE. LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> OKAY. IN HINDSIGHT, WOULD YOU DO IT AGAIN?

GREG HILL>> PROBABLY NOT (LAUGHTER). BUT, AGAIN, LIKE I SAY, IT WAS ALL IN GOOD FUN. HOPEFULLY, PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT I HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN THESE TOUGH TIMES THAT WE DO FACE IN OUR STATE AND THIS NATION, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE A LAUGH EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE.

VAL>> AND HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR MAYOR'S JOB?

GREG HILL>> I'VE GOT TWO MORE YEARS.

VAL>> TWO MORE YEARS.

GREG HILL>> YEAH, TWO MORE YEARS AND THEN I'M BEING ASKED TO CONSIDER -- FROM MY FANS NOW -- YOU SHOULD RUN FOR HIGHER OFFICE (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, I'M GLAD YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR AND I HOPE REDONDO BEACH SURVIVES. I THINK IT PROBABLY WILL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, GREG HILL OF REDONDO BEACH.

GREG HILL>> THANK YOU.

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JESS>> IT'S NEVER SMART TO YELL FIRE IN A CROWDED THEATER, BUT PATT HAS DISCOVERED A FEW MORE STUNTS THAT ARE EQUALLY STUPID, ESPECIALLY IN THESE NERVOUS TIMES. THAT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> WE'VE LAUGHED OVER THE YEARS AT POLICE REPORTS OF STUPID CRIMINALS LIKE THE HOTEL GUEST WHO CALLED UP HOTEL SECURITY TO REPORT THAT HIS STASH OF COCAINE HAD BEEN STOLEN FROM HIS ROOM. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE STUPID WHO LACK INTENT, BUT GET CLASSED AS CRIMINALS ANYWAY LIKE THE LOVESICK TWENTY-YEAR-OLD ORANGE COUNTY WOMAN WHOSE FAMILY MADE HER JOIN THEM ON A CRUISE TO HAWAII WHEN SHE WANTED TO STAY HOME WITH HER BOYFRIEND? THE ONE THE FAMILY NICKNAMED "VELCRO". THE ONLY ESCAPE SHE COULD THINK OF WAS STOPPING THE ENTIRE CRUISE AND THIS SHE DID BY LEAVING THREATENING AND MISSPELLED MESSAGES ABOUT KILLING ALL THE AMERICANOS. IT WORKED ALL RIGHT, BUT THE LOVERS MAY NOT BE REUNITED. KELLEY FERGUSON IS IN JAIL WITHOUT BAIL AND COULD GET TWENTY YEARS IN PRISON.

LET'S USE SOME JUDGMENT HERE. TERRORISTS ARE NOT STUPID. AS WE HAVE TRAGICALLY LEARNED, THEY ARE SUBTLE, WELL-INFORMED, WELL ARMED, DETERMINED AND FOCUSED. KELLEY WAS TWO YEARS OLD WHEN THE ACHILLE LAURO WAS BOARDED IN THE MEDITERRANEAN BY ARMED HIJACKERS THREATENING TO BLOW UP THE SHIP. THAT TERRORIST PROFILE HARDLY MATCHES SOME BADLY SPELLED NOTES. ONE HUNDRED TWENTY INVESTIGATORS BOARDED KELLEY'S SHIP AND QUESTIONED ALL 2,400 PASSENGERS AND CREW. THAT WAS ENTIRELY PROPER, BUT WE CANNOT KEEP CRYING WOLF EVERY TIME WE SEE A TERRIER AND EXPECT TO BE BELIEVED WHEN THE WOLF FINALLY SHOWS. WE CANNOT LIVE AT RED ALERT FOREVER. NOT EVERY FORGOTTEN LUNCH BAG IS FULL OF DYNAMITE, NOT EVERY LOST BRIEFCASE IS A DIRTY BOMB. VIGILANCE IS GOOD, HYSTERIA IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.

REMEMBER THE LOS ANGELES FIRE CAPTAIN ACCUSED OF SENDING HIS EX-WIFE'S LAWYER SOME BROWN POWDER DURING THE ANTHRAX SCARE? HE GOT PROBATION AND KEPT HIS JOB. THE PROSECUTORS HERE SAY KELLEY SHOULDN’T EXPECT PROBATION. THEY WANT NOT JUST PUNISHMENT, BUT DETERRENCE. FINE, BUT PRISON DOESN'T DETER REAL TERRORISTS AND, JUDGING BY KELLEY'S SPELLING, HER KINDRED TROUBLEMAKERS OUT THERE DON'T READ THE NEWS ENOUGH TO NOTICE A KID LANGUISHING IN PRISON FOR A STUPID STUNT AND SAY, GEE, I GUESS I SHOULDN'T DO THAT.

WHAT REGISTERS WITH KIDS? CASH AND EMBARRASSMENT. MAKE HER PAY BACK SOME OF THE COSTS OF THIS CAPER TO THE GOVERNMENT, TO THE CRUISE LINE, TO HER FATHER WHO WENT INTO DEBT FOR THIS VACATION. MAKE HER WRITE A LETTER OF APOLOGY TO EACH OF THE 2,400 PEOPLE ABOARD. BUT PRISON? PLEASE. DON'T COMPOUND DUMB WITH DUMBER. KEEP THAT CELL AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE WHO DESERVES IT. WHAT EVER BECAME OF THAT BIN LADEN GUY ANYWAY?

VAL>> WELL, IN THE SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES FROM PHILADELPHIA TO DETROIT, SOUL MUSIC RODE A WAVE OF POPULARITY, BUT IT WAS CUT SHORT BY THE DISCO CRAZE, BUT NOT BEFORE THE LEGENDS OF SOUL EMERGED.

JESS>> AMONG THE MOST POPULAR WAS A SINGING DUO KNOWN AS "SAM & DAVE". NOW A NEW DOCUMENTARY FEATURES THE LEGENDARY "SOULMAN" HIMSELF, SAM MOORE. HERE'S A LOOK AT ONE OF HIS GREAT MOMENTS IN THIS BRIEF CLIP FROM "ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE".

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS THE "SOULMAN" HIMSELF, SAM MOORE. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES. WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU.

SAM MOORE>> GOOD EVENING. HOW ARE WE DOING?

JESS>> SAM, MOST OF YOUR WORK HAD A REAL GOSPEL TINT TO IT.

SAM MOORE>> GOSPEL FLAVOR, YEAH. IT DID.

VAL>> WELL, YOUR FIRST SINGING WAS IN A CHURCH CHOIR, NO?

SAM MOORE>> YES, IT WAS.

VAL>> THAT'S WHERE IT STARTED?

SAM MOORE>> I HAD A CHANCE AT THAT TIME -- DURING THE TIME DAVE AND I WERE TOGETHER, I HAD A CHANCE TO JOIN THE "SOULSTERS", THE GROUP THAT SAM COOKE HEADLINED. I MADE IT, BUT THEN I GOT A CHANCE TO GO SEE A YOUNG MAN BY THE NAME OF JACKIE WILSON AND I SAID THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO. I DIDN'T GO INTO THE GOSPEL FIELD ANY LONGER (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> NOW YOU'VE OFTEN SAID THAT YOU DON'T THINK YOU CAN REALLY SING, THAT YOUR TALENT IS ACTUALLY STORYTELLING? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

SAM MOORE>> WELL, I'M SORT OF A STORYTELLER, BUT MORE SO I'M LAZY.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WHAT DO YOU MEAN LAZY?

SAM MOORE>> WELL, I'M LAZY. I MEAN, IF I DON'T HAVE TO PUT OUT TOO MUCH OF AN EFFORT, I WON'T.

JESS>> SO WE WON'T EXPECT TO SEE YOU DOING HIP-HOP THEN?

SAM MOORE>> NO, NO, NO HIP-HOP. FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. CAB CALLOWAY DID IT, THE WALK AND ALL THAT STUFF IN THOSE DAYS, BUT, NO, YOU WON'T SEE ME DOING THAT.

VAL>> AND HOW ABOUT RAP? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RAP THESE DAYS?

SAM MOORE>> I HAVE A PROBLEM EVEN REMEMBERING THE SONGS THAT I'VE BEEN DOING FOR THIRTY-FOUR YEARS (LAUGHTER), SO I DON'T THINK I'LL BE DOING THAT EITHER.

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) THE TITLE OF THIS DOCUMENTARY, "ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE", HOW DO YOU REFLECT ON THAT?

SAM MOORE>> WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK BACK, YOU HAVE ISAAC HAYES AND JERRY BUTLER AND MARY WILSON AND A YOUNG MAN, GENE RECORD, WHO HAD SUNG WITH THE CHI-LITES FOR FOURTEEN YEARS, CARLA THOMAS, A YOUNG LADY BY THE NAME OF ANN PEEBLES THAT REFLECTS THE SONG THAT TINA TURNER DID, "I CAN'T STAND THE RAIN", BUT IT REALLY WASN'T TINA. SHE CUT IT, BUT IT WAS ANN WHO ACTUALLY RECORDED IT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEM, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE GRAYER, A LITTLE HEAVY AROUND THE MIDDLE AND WHATNOT, AND THE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THEIR LIVES OVER THE PERIOD OF TIME --

JESS>> -- YOU'VE HAD SOME TOUGH TIMES IN YOUR LIFE TOO?

SAM MOORE>> OH, I DID, BUT I WAS ABLE TO SURVIVE.

JESS>> THE STRONG SURVIVE.

SAM MOORE>> ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE.

VAL>> A GREAT TITLE FOR THIS STORY ABOUT YOU AND MANY OTHERS. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT A CLIP NOW. THIS IS YOU AT THE B.B. KING BLUES CLUB ONLY LAST YEAR. LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> THE "SOULMAN".

SAM MOORE>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> DAN AKROYD AND JOHN BELUSHI, THEIR ACT ON "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE", WHAT DID THAT DO TO YOUR CAREER?

SAM MOORE>> NOTHING (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) OH, TOO BAD.

SAM MOORE>> I AM, I REALLY AM. NO, I THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BECAUSE AFTER THEY -- YOU KNOW, WE ALL WATCHED THEM DO JOE COCKER, RAY CHARLES AND SAMMY DAVIS, THE "SOULMAN" AND WHATNOT. SO WHEN WE WERE FIRST ASKED TO JOIN THEM ON "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE", I TURNED IT DOWN. I REALLY DID.

VAL>> REALLY?

SAM MOORE>> I DID. BAD DECISION (LAUGHTER) BECAUSE I SPOKE WITH DAVE AND HE SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT CLOWNS. YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT COMEDIANS, SO WHY SHOULD WE DO THAT? WE DIDN'T DO IT, BUT THEN THEY WENT TO JAMES BROWN AND THEY ASKED JAMES AND JAMES DIDN'T DO IT AND THEN THEY CAME BACK TO US. BUT BY THAT TIME, BELUSHI AND AKROYD HAD LEFT AND WE DID IT THEN.

VAL>> YOU DO HAVE A NEW CD COMING OUT?

SAM MOORE>> YES, IT'S OUT ALREADY. IT'S CALLED "PLENTY GOOD LOVING", WHICH I WROTE.

VAL>> "PLENTY GOOD LOVING".

SAM MOORE>> "PLENTY GOOD LOVING", I WROTE THIRTY-ONE YEARS AGO, WOULD YOU BELIEVE?

JESS>> HAD YOU RECORDED IT BEFORE? "PRETTY GOOD LOVING"?

SAM MOORE>> YEAH, I WROTE THAT THIRTY-ONE YEARS AGO. SEE, WHEN I LEFT DAVE IN 1969, I RECORDED WITH ATLANTIC IN 1971 AND KING CURTIS WAS THE PRODUCER AT THE TIME WHEN HE GOT MURDERED, SO THEY DIDN'T PUT IT OUT.

JESS>> WELL, IT'S GREAT TO MEET A SURVIVOR AND A STRONG SURVIVOR. SAM, THANK YOU.

SAM MOORE>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

JESS>> OUR THANKS TO SAM MOORE. THE FILM "ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE" OPENS NEXT FRIDAY, MAY 9, AT THE ARC LIGHT THEATRE IN HOLLYWOOD.

VAL>> AND A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OR HEAR AUDIO OF RECENT PROGRAMS ON OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> AND THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS AND GOOD NIGHT.

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THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
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AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
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